Chicago Uncool?
Martin Sagara
I'm going to get nabbed by the "Age Police". A younger guy (mid-20s) I work with was making
a comment about how Chicago was such a slow song/romantic group and that maybe they should
think about recording some real Rock-n-Roll music. I was stunned! I then proceeded to give
him a 30 minute history lesson about how Chicago was one of the most innovative bands Rock
bands in the late '60s and early '70s (and it's not every band included recordings of
demonstrations at Democratic National Conventions on their first album). Of course, the comment
I got from him was, "Wow, they've been around that long?!".
Am I getting old or what? ;^)
Martin
msa...@rmii.com
Marc Wielage
In article <56q1jq$k...@natasha.rmii.com>, msa...@rainbow.rmii.com (Martin
Sagara) wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I just went through the GROUP PORTRAIT boxed set compilation not
long ago, and I was surprised to find out about who sang what vocal on
which song, who played which instrument, who wrote the songs, and so on.
Chicago is one of the few groups I'm aware of where you had lead singers
who didn't necessarily write the song, and they also had at least two (and
sometimes three) very capable lead singers.
I was also surprised to find out in the liner notes why ex-lead singer
Peter Cetera has that kinda weird singing style, where he only barely
opens up his mouth when he sings. It turns out that he got in a fight in
the late 60s/early 70s at a football game, and some guy broke Cetera's
jaw; later on, before the jaw completely healed, he had to sing in a live
concert, and found he could only open his mouth so far before it hurt too
much. Apparently, he either can't open his mouth much further, or he just
got used to singing that way, so that's why he still does it today.
I also agree that Chicago is an underappreciated group, and they get into
a discussion of that in the liner notes as well. For some reason, this is
one of those 1970s groups that was disliked (sometimes despised) by the
mainstream critics, particularly in ROLLING STONE. I remember reading in
Clive Davis' (ex-CBS Records president's) auto-biography how he planned
for Chicago to be a group that would deliberately span both Top 40 and FM
Rock playlists; maybe some critics perceived that Chicago was too
"manufactured" and too "contrived" for their tastes.
Me personally, I think they had some dynamite songs throughout the
decade. In fact I'd put any of these on my favorites list:
"Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?"
"Lowdown"
"Beginnings"
"Questions 67 And 68"
"Saturday in the Park"
"Dialogue (Parts 1 and 2)"
"Wishing You Were Here"
"Old Days"
(I'd also mention "Hard Habit to Break" from 1984 -- another rare hit with
two lead singers, Cetera and Robert Lamm.)
My own brother (an annoying Gen X-er) can't stand the group, which is
something we argue about all the time. He hates 'em *because* they have
horns, which is the whole point of their sound.
--MFW
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Mark Rathwell
: the late 60s/early 70s at a football game, and some guy broke Cetera's
: jaw;
Actually, it was three guys. :-)
: (I'd also mention "Hard Habit to Break" from 1984 -- another rare hit with
: two lead singers, Cetera and Robert Lamm.)
Good choses, though that's Bill Champlin doing the other vocal. :-)
: something we argue about all the time. He hates 'em *because* they have
: horns, which is the whole point of their sound.
Obviously, this guy has no tatse. :-)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Rathwell
E_Mail: mrat...@uoguelph.ca
Web Page: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~mrathwel
Mark Rathwell
: I'm going to get nabbed by the "Age Police". A younger guy (mid-20s) I work with was making
: a comment about how Chicago was such a slow song/romantic group and that maybe they should
: think about recording some real Rock-n-Roll music.
This guy (early 20s) can tell you about Chicago's older stuff.
It's obvious that pinhead you work for knows little about musicianship or
about Chicago. Hell ... I often stick on Hideaway from Chicago VIII just
to surprise my friends. "That's Peter Cetera?????" they say!
: Am I getting old or what? ;^)
No, your coworkers are just getting dumber. :-)
>> Mark <<
Marc Wielage
In article <56t1fl$l...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca>, mrat...@uoguelph.ca
(Mark Rathwell) wrote:
> : (I'd also mention "Hard Habit to Break" from 1984 -- another rare hit with
> : two lead singers, Cetera and Robert Lamm.)
>
> Good choices, though that's Bill Champlin doing the other vocal. :-)
>---------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, I was only guessing who did the other vocal with Peter Cetera.
Champlin's voice is so much like Cetera's, it's almost a twin -- just
slightly rougher, but in the same range.
I only found out there were two lead singers because of the music video,
which I saw by accident a few years ago. And of course, this song wasn't
in the CBS Records boxed CD set, because it was during their Warner
Bros./Full Moon period.
Thanks much for the info!
T.K. Holly
In article <56t1c4$l...@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca>, mrat...@uoguelph.ca
(Mark Rathwell) wrote:
> : I'm going to get nabbed by the "Age Police". A younger guy (mid-20s)
I work with was making
> : a comment about how Chicago was such a slow song/romantic group and
that maybe they should
> : think about recording some real Rock-n-Roll music.
>
> This guy (early 20s) can tell you about Chicago's older stuff.
> It's obvious that pinhead you work for knows little about musicianship or
> about Chicago. Hell ... I often stick on Hideaway from Chicago VIII just
> to surprise my friends. "That's Peter Cetera?????" they say!
>
> : Am I getting old or what? ;^)
>
> No, your coworkers are just getting dumber. :-)
>
> >> Mark <<
Heck, if I could orchestrate ANY piece of music as well as Chicago did, I
would be over the top!
It's comments like that of "pinhead" that makes us all proud to be related
(as a species) to small minded (musically) people like him.
Vivaladifferance!
TkH
--
..."And they did not need his solemn vow of witness, for in their hearts they knew that all they heard was true."-Alcott Allison
Henk Dolleman
On 19 Nov 1996 04:56:02 -0700, m...@musictrax.com (Marc Wielage) wrote:
<snip>
>I also agree that Chicago is an underappreciated group, and they get into
>a discussion of that in the liner notes as well. For some reason, this is
>one of those 1970s groups that was disliked (sometimes despised) by the
>mainstream critics, particularly in ROLLING STONE. I remember reading in
>Clive Davis' (ex-CBS Records president's) auto-biography how he planned
>for Chicago to be a group that would deliberately span both Top 40 and FM
>Rock playlists; maybe some critics perceived that Chicago was too
>"manufactured" and too "contrived" for their tastes.
That strategy must have been 'manufactured' *after* their first three
studio albums and their fourth (live) album? Although popular, these
albums weren't exactly mainstream. Their first albums were, as far as
I can remember (at least here in Holland) received as real
'underground'. However, I *do* remember something about Al Kooper
having trouble getting a record contract for Blood Sweat & Tears
because of Chigago's (planned) first album.
>Me personally, I think they had some dynamite songs throughout the
>decade. In fact I'd put any of these on my favorites list:
>
>"Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?"
>"Lowdown"
>"Beginnings"
>"Questions 67 And 68"
>"Saturday in the Park"
>"Dialogue (Parts 1 and 2)"
>"Wishing You Were Here"
>"Old Days"
Not to mention their first single I'm a man (the brilliant remake of
the Spencer Davis original), South California purples or Liberation.
henk
Mark Rathwell
: 'underground'. However, I *do* remember something about Al Kooper
: having trouble getting a record contract for Blood Sweat & Tears
: because of Chigago's (planned) first album.
Actually ... it was the other way around. Chicago had trouble
getting a record deal because of Al Kooper's industry connections. So, in
effect, Chicago was seen as copying a band that they preceeded in existance.
>> Mark <<
--
Henk Dolleman
On 22 Nov 1996 17:34:12 GMT, mrat...@uoguelph.ca (Mark Rathwell)
wrote:
>: 'underground'. However, I *do* remember something about Al Kooper
>: having trouble getting a record contract for Blood Sweat & Tears
>: because of Chigago's (planned) first album.
>
> Actually ... it was the other way around. Chicago had trouble
>getting a record deal because of Al Kooper's industry connections. So, in
>effect, Chicago was seen as copying a band that they preceeded in existance.
>
> >> Mark <<
Mark,
you could be right, but... If so, my source is wrong, and I haven't
found many real mistakes in it all the years I'm using the subsequent
versions of it(10 versions in the last 20 years). I'm talking about my
pop encyclopedia from the Dutch Muziekkrant Oor. Let's quote:
<quote>
"'I'm very sorry i've got to tell you this, but I happen to know a few
guys in Chigago and they're gonna be the first popgroup with horns, so
I can't help your group in any way at the moment', was the answer of
James William Guercio when Al Kooper phoned to ask him to produce the
first album of Koopers new band Blood Sweat & Tears. Guercio is
talking about some guys who'll make it big in the USA a few years
later as 'Chigago'. Although they're not the first popgroup with horns
(BST releases their first album in may '68), but, under his (Guercio's
-h) guidance Chicago becomes the most popgroup with horns of the
seventies and eighties".
<end quote>
Well, this is the source I based my comment on. What's yours?
PS: I'm not sure Guercio has it right to say Chigago was the first
popgroups with horns: I've always thought Mike Bloomfields Electric
Flag was the first *American* popgroup with horns? (Not to mention a
few British jazz/blues bands from the early sixties - but that's
another newsgroup).
henk