The very first "psychedelic" song

[Curmudgeon]

Earlier today, I programmed my iTunes database (38K+ selections) to
play whatever Yardbirds tunes I've got (42 selections, just over two
hours) randomly, and when "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" came on, I
pondered whether it might be the first charting psychedelic song.

Tracking back from HTYTA (11/26/1966), I discovered many others that
might claim to have had the same distinction, but ended up just past
the Byrds' "Eight Miles High" (04/09/1966) at a juxtaposition of the
Rolling Stones "19th Nervous Breakdown" (02/26/1966) and the Beatles'
"Nowhere Man" (03/05/1966).

Both seem to me to meet whatever qualifications have been proposed to
define "psychedelic" music, so I propose the two of them as the pro-
genitors of the genre. I look forward to whatever reactions you have
to this proposal. (Does it matter? No. Is it fun? Yes!)

--

Cheers!

Mudge

"And if California slides into the ocean like the mystics and
statistics say it will, I predict this hotel will be standing
until I pay my bill."

[starga...@gmail.com]

I personally feel the first psychedelic song was the Yardbirds' very own "For Your Love". You may disagree, but it offered something here-to-fore (looking from the viewpoint of the time of its release in 1965, that is) new and unforeseen. You can say, a seedling doesn't look like a big oak trea, but this was a seedling of the psychedelic phenomenon.

Nick K.

[Jan Dean]

Everyone knows Itchykoo Park was the first "real" psychedelic song.

[Dean F.]

The first psychedelic rock song was recorded in 1956 (you read that
right):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAGoqMZRLB4

Tell me those lyrics aren't pure psychedelia!

[DianeE]

"Curmudgeon" <le...@me.alone> wrote in message
news:150520121836585751%le...@me.alone...

> Earlier today, I programmed my iTunes database (38K+ selections) to
> play whatever Yardbirds tunes I've got (42 selections, just over two
> hours) randomly, and when "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" came on, I
> pondered whether it might be the first charting psychedelic song.
>
> Tracking back from HTYTA (11/26/1966), I discovered many others that
> might claim to have had the same distinction, but ended up just past
> the Byrds' "Eight Miles High" (04/09/1966) at a juxtaposition of the
> Rolling Stones "19th Nervous Breakdown" (02/26/1966) and the Beatles'
> "Nowhere Man" (03/05/1966).
>
> Both seem to me to meet whatever qualifications have been proposed to
> define "psychedelic" music, so I propose the two of them as the pro-
> genitors of the genre. I look forward to whatever reactions you have
> to this proposal. (Does it matter? No. Is it fun? Yes!)

---------------
Okay, what qualifications have been proposed to define "psychedelic" music?

Does it mean something you have to be stoned to appreciate?

DianeE

[Mark Dintenfass]

In article
<bb2d092f-812b-45aa...@b21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,

In article <W_OdnVZ6A_8mhy7S...@giganews.com>, DianeE

<Tired...@SorryFolks.com> wrote:

> Okay, what qualifications have been proposed to define "psychedelic" music?
>
> Does it mean something you have to be stoned to appreciate?

I was just about to tell Dean you don't have to be stoned to appreciate
Bo Diddley's "Who Do You Love," which makes it something other (and
much better) than psychedelic.

--
--md
_________
Remove xx's from address to reply

[Dean F.]

On May 15, 10:26 pm, "News" <a...@att.net> wrote:

>      You're nuts, if you categorize that as psychedelic!

Come to think of it, that song couldn't possibly be psychedelic; I
find it listenable!

[Dave The Rave]

Check out both "Nuggets" box sets. Great psychedelic songs ( and other
early genres).

Dave The Rave

[Curmudgeon]

In article <W_OdnVZ6A_8mhy7S...@giganews.com>, DianeE
<Tired...@SorryFolks.com> wrote:

No, I don't believe one must be "stoned" in order to appreciate
psychedelic music. I'm more inclined to define it as music that
encourages an introspective turn of mind. While it's true that
psychedelic drugs can promote this, they are not required. Thus,
Indian sitar ragas can be psychedelic since they tend to enhance
meditative states of consciousness. In fact, I might go so far
to suggest that psychedelic lyrics are about cognitive processes
internal to the person singing the lyrics, whether or not these
processes have been modified by ingestion of any particular sub-
stance. The same criterion can be applied to literature beyond
song lyrics (Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland or Franz Kafka's
Metamorphosis, for example). "Thinking about thinking" seems to
me to be the genesis of true psychedelia.

[Michael Black]

On Tue, 15 May 2012, Curmudgeon wrote:

> Earlier today, I programmed my iTunes database (38K+ selections) to
> play whatever Yardbirds tunes I've got (42 selections, just over two
> hours) randomly, and when "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" came on, I
> pondered whether it might be the first charting psychedelic song.
>
> Tracking back from HTYTA (11/26/1966), I discovered many others that
> might claim to have had the same distinction, but ended up just past
> the Byrds' "Eight Miles High" (04/09/1966) at a juxtaposition of the
> Rolling Stones "19th Nervous Breakdown" (02/26/1966) and the Beatles'
> "Nowhere Man" (03/05/1966).
>
> Both seem to me to meet whatever qualifications have been proposed to
> define "psychedelic" music, so I propose the two of them as the pro-
> genitors of the genre. I look forward to whatever reactions you have
> to this proposal. (Does it matter? No. Is it fun? Yes!)
>

If it's not from San Francisco, it can't be psychedelic.

That's an exaggeration, but I suspect the earliest is from San Francisco.

It's improvisational, it's long, the lyrics may not exist, or be a minimal
part of the piece. I don't think it's about the listener, but it might
require that the performers be on LSD or at least have taken it, though
I'm not sure if that really matters.

Artists take acid on US government studies. Artists react to that, Kesey
going off on the bus trip, and the trips festivals. That starts to define
the music. The kids are tired of folk music (which had better lyrics when
they were wanted, rather than repetitive rock lyrics that seemed aimed at
the young teenagers), so when the Beatles play Ed Sullivan, they all go
electric. It builds up in 1965, the older teenagers wanted dance parties
but with a more mature feel. They want longer songs so they don't have to
keep stopping the dancing. So bands that probably have taken acid, it was
out of the lab by then and still legal, they start playing improvisational
music to keep the kids dancing. The Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane,
Quicksilver, all of those bands. The influences were John Coltrane, and
Ravi Shankar. The music was fusion, helped by the fact that
the first wave of musicians had previous experience with folk and blues
and bluegrass, and then by underground radio that played variety, so
people heard different genres. Improvisatinal music is like an acid trip,
you go over in that direction, then pulled in another direction, and then
finally back to the starting point. This is the same space that "psychedlic"
cmae into the general culture.

It then seemed to vector to something sort of differernt in the UK and
Europe, there seems to be a distinctive difference, and it seems many
people think only the UK stuff is psychedelic.

And then it got watered down, and it was Disneyfied for the masses, so The
Strawberry Alarm Clock with short songs get classified in the same
category, despite coming from a very commercial place. That stuff may be
most obvious, with nobody really stopping to think about it.

Of course, the question was "commercial success" which skews things.
There was lots of interesting music in San Francisco in 1965, but it took
time for the acts to get record contracts, and release records, and much
of it never had a lot of commercial success.

Having listened to the 2 live albums from The Great Society for thirty
years, I would point that out as "psychedelic" and fairly early. The
songs are long, improvisational, influenced by Coltrane and Shankar.
Sure, it didn't get airplay, but it begins to set a time for early
psychedlic.

And there is one song that I might place as an early example, but that's
filtered by listening to The Great Society's version all these years.
"Sally Go 'Round the Roses" is likely an early example. I figured The
Great Society had changed it significantly, but when I actually first hear
the 1963 original by the Jaynetts, it is quite similar to the Great
Society version. Oddly, one reference says it actually first took off in
San Francisco.

Of course,"East West" by the Butterfield Blues Band certainly fits my
definition, and does come early.

Michael

[marcus60s]

On May 15, 7:36 pm, Curmudgeon <le...@me.alone> wrote:

"Grim Reaper of Love".

[DianeE]

"Curmudgeon" <le...@me.alone> wrote in message

news:160520121023548315%le...@me.alone...

---------------------
So, do you think this one qualifies? It charted in 1965.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHfWjYSwK9c

DianeE

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; in article,
<a8ada134-c91b-414e...@eh4g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
marc...@yahoo.com "marcus60s" proposed:

> Curmudgeon <le...@me.alone> wrote:
>> when "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" came on, I pondered whether it
>> might be the first charting psychedelic song.

>> Rolling Stones "19th Nervous Breakdown"

>> and the Beatles' "Nowhere Man"
>>

>> Both seem to me to meet whatever qualifications have been proposed to
>> define "psychedelic" music, so I propose the two of them as the pro-
>> genitors of the genre.  I look forward to whatever reactions you have
>> to this proposal.  (Does it matter?  No.  Is it fun?  Yes!)
>

>"Grim Reaper of Love".

- *g*: "killing the living and living to kill..."

- i dunno; i know what "psychedelic art" means to me, and i
think i might agree with some people's ideas & selections of
psychedelic pop/rock music; but i'm not at all sure there's
any simple definition of psychedelic music that would include
everything i think is, yet excludeeverything that isn't - i'm
not certain there's a set of "necessary and sufficient" ele-
ments whose presence or absence determines musical psychedelia.

- we could try listing single tracks we identify as psychedelic;
but i don't know whether it'd prove possible to deduce general
rules, laws, definitions or criteria that distinguish all from
everything else...

- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"Bounciness is fun!!!
Embrace your inner Ping Pong ball."
- marian rosenberg (later brucianna di rosenkavaliera)
5/1/98 (1/5/98 for merkins)

[hislop]

On 16/05/2012 9:36 AM, Curmudgeon wrote:
> Earlier today, I programmed my iTunes database (38K+ selections) to
> play whatever Yardbirds tunes I've got (42 selections, just over two
> hours) randomly, and when "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" came on, I
> pondered whether it might be the first charting psychedelic song.
>
> Tracking back from HTYTA (11/26/1966), I discovered many others that
> might claim to have had the same distinction, but ended up just past
> the Byrds' "Eight Miles High" (04/09/1966) at a juxtaposition of the
> Rolling Stones "19th Nervous Breakdown" (02/26/1966) and the Beatles'
> "Nowhere Man" (03/05/1966).
>
> Both seem to me to meet whatever qualifications have been proposed to
> define "psychedelic" music, so I propose the two of them as the pro-
> genitors of the genre. I look forward to whatever reactions you have
> to this proposal. (Does it matter? No. Is it fun? Yes!)
>

Now the word 'psychedelic' was first used by Aldous Huxleys friend.
(Humphrey Osmond in 1957 on Wikipedia). I think his name used was
'psychodelic'. They were considering a name for the drugs they were
investigating in the 50s.

As I understand it, the word 'psychedelic' became a buzz word in pop
music in 1966, hence 'The Psychedelic Sound of the 13th Floor Elevators'
and 'Psychedelic Lollipop' by the Blues Magoos, both from 1966. The
usage slightly transformed in the period after Sgt. Peppers.

In that period the earliest I know of is by a group called The Deep.
There is a CD on 'Collectables' called 'Psychedelic Moods A Mind
Expanding Phenomena by The Deep'. There is a Part Two as well with
various artists. As I understand it, the writer in The Deep then went
on and wrote songs for The Third Bardo, such songs as 'I'm Five Years
Ahead of My Time'. The album has a very raw sound and it sounds as if
the psychedelic concept is very early. The best one on it is 'Trip #76'
which could have been a single IMO.

This is from Wikipedia on The Deep
'The Psychedelic Moods album was recorded in August 1966.... While the
exact release date of the album has yet to be definitively established,
the record most likely had been shipped to stores by late October 1966,
based on the known release dates and catalogue numbers of other
Cameo-Parkway albums. This would make it the first album to include the
word "psychedelic" in its title, beating out the Blues Magoos'
"Psychedelic Lollipop", released as early as November 1, 1966, and the
13th Floor Elevators' "The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor
Elevators", released around the last week of November 1966.'

But also consider that Tomorrow Never Knows by The Beatles was recorded
early in 1966, almost the first song in the sessions for Revolver. And
The Mothers of Invention album, Freak Out was released June 27, 1966
according to Wikipedia. Various parts of it can be called psychedelic
but a stand out to me is a song 'Who Are The Brain Police?' which sounds
as if it might have had a large influence on lots of Nuggets and Pebbles
type groups.






--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---

[hislop]

On 16/05/2012 9:36 AM, Curmudgeon wrote:

> Earlier today, I programmed my iTunes database (38K+ selections) to
> play whatever Yardbirds tunes I've got (42 selections, just over two
> hours) randomly, and when "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" came on, I
> pondered whether it might be the first charting psychedelic song.
>
> Tracking back from HTYTA (11/26/1966), I discovered many others that
> might claim to have had the same distinction, but ended up just past
> the Byrds' "Eight Miles High" (04/09/1966) at a juxtaposition of the
> Rolling Stones "19th Nervous Breakdown" (02/26/1966) and the Beatles'
> "Nowhere Man" (03/05/1966).

I wouldn't called 19th Nervous Breakdown or Nowhere Man psychedelic.
And probably not Eight Miles High that much either.

[Curmudgeon]

In article <NvqdnRxjg4GZ-CnS...@giganews.com>, DianeE

Funny thing, Diane, but I considered SHB and decided that it was simply
wordplay, very advanced and entertaining wordplay to be sure, but word-
play just the same. And after all, Mr. Zimmerman himself tells us early
on the he's "thinkin' 'bout the government."

[Curmudgeon]

In article <jp526d$1r9$1...@dont-email.me>, hislop

Horses for courses, I suppose, but the fact that you cite "Tomorrow
Never Knows" (my favorite Beatles track) in an earlier post suggests
we're pretty close to agreement since it is *clearly* psychedelic.

Bear in mind that I specified the earliest *charting* psychedelia and
the field becomes very much narrowed. I have no problem with "Eight
Miles High" being proposed as the earliest such candidate -- I think
that many authors on the subject agree -- but I find *hints* of what
makes TNK (which *preceded* EMH) psychedelic in the more commercial NM
and 19NB. I don't think TNK was ever considered for single release
(nor was "She Said She Said" which I'd also call at least semipsych).

[Inyo]

<starga...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:23695996.551.1337126479274.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynja8...

I personally feel the first psychedelic song was the Yardbirds' very own
"For Your Love".

________________________________________

Right group, wrong song--in my own personal estimation.

Although "Eight Miles High" by The Byrds is often cited as the earliest
charting--that is, US Billboard Top 40--example of a recording that
incorporates convincing psychedelic overtones, my own vote goes to "Shapes
Of Things" by The Yardbirds; the superior Jeff Beck solo alone generates
enough psychedelia for several songs...

Anyhow, here's the timeline: "Shapes" was released in February, 1966; "Eight
Miles High" appears for public consumption on March 14, 1966. And, sealing
the deal is the fact that "Shapes Of Things" precedes "Eight MH" in its
first appearance in the US Billboard Top 40 by three full weeks--"Shapes"
angles into the Top 40 on April 9, 1966, on its way to an eventual #11 peak
position, while "Eight Miles High" soars into the Top 40 on April 30, 1966,
finally stalling out at #14.

http://inyo.coffeecup.com/site/music/eightmileshigh.html
My solo, acoustic, instrumental 6-string guitar version of "Eight Miles
High." #14 US Billboard for The Byrds, 1966.

[DianeE]

"Curmudgeon" <le...@me.alone> wrote in message

news:180520121101354707%le...@me.alone...

-------------
Okay, but the first line is "Johnny's in the basement, mixin' up the
medicine." What do you suppose the medicine is? To further emphasize the
point that the medicine isn't the one that Mother gives you, there's a line
in the next verse about "they must bust 'em early, orders from the D.A." I
can't quite make out that line but it makes it clear that something illegal
is going on.

I am guessing this song doesn't qualify as psychedelic more because of the
*music* than because of the lyrics. It sounds like honky-tonk hillbilly
music. Not a sitar or a theremin anywhere.

(BTW it's my favorite Bob Dylan song ever.)

DianeE

[hislop]

The truth may well be that Day Tripper is an early one. I thought once
it was too obvious to choose it, but it turns out it was about drugs.

There has to be a drug aspect for an early song to be psychedelic but it
does seem that the pop sound in 1966 started to adopt the word
'psychedelic' just for the buzz of it. I'm mainly thinking of the Blues
Magoos album. The 13th Floor Elevators were out to promote LSD, and The
Deep had something like a concept album about drug use. Interesting
considering what one member of the Elevators was into later.

I mean 19th Nervous Breakdown has no drug mind expanding component at all.

[hislop]

On 16/05/2012 9:36 AM, Curmudgeon wrote:

> Earlier today, I programmed my iTunes database (38K+ selections) to
> play whatever Yardbirds tunes I've got (42 selections, just over two
> hours) randomly, and when "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" came on, I
> pondered whether it might be the first charting psychedelic song.
>
> Tracking back from HTYTA (11/26/1966), I discovered many others that
> might claim to have had the same distinction, but ended up just past
> the Byrds' "Eight Miles High" (04/09/1966) at a juxtaposition of the
> Rolling Stones "19th Nervous Breakdown" (02/26/1966) and the Beatles'
> "Nowhere Man" (03/05/1966).
>
> Both seem to me to meet whatever qualifications have been proposed to
> define "psychedelic" music, so I propose the two of them as the pro-
> genitors of the genre. I look forward to whatever reactions you have
> to this proposal. (Does it matter? No. Is it fun? Yes!)
>

The prize might go to The Trip by Kim Fowley from 1965, as far as 60s
psychedelia goes. I can't find a more accurate release date. I've
heard somewhere before about it being the first. But I've also read
that Mecca by Gene Pitney (from about 1963) was a precursor to
psychedelia on wikipedia.

[Jim Colegrove]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 21:51:44 +1000, hislop <takecar...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Kim Fowley is as good candidate. Also, The 13th Floor Elevators are
also largely recorgnized as being there at the start of the style.
Both date from 1965.

Jim Colegrove
www.thecoolgroove.com

[Taliesyn]

Jim Colegrove <co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote in
news:0l8fr7h4om8h654kq...@4ax.com:

I'll go with The Yardbirds "Shapes of Things" (March 1966) as probably
the first Top 40 psychedelic song. They went a step further with
"Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" in October 1966. Total freakout guitars
in both songs. "Shapes" was a great intro to the genre. But "Happenings"
was one wild trip!

-Taliesyn

[marcus60s]

On May 19, 4:10 pm, Taliesyn <talies...@netscape.net> wrote:
> Jim Colegrove <co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote innews:0l8fr7h4om8h654kq...@4ax.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 19 May 2012 21:51:44 +1000, hislop <takecarebew...@gmail.com>

and then came" Over Under Sideways Down".

[Curmudgeon]

In article <XnsA058A4881C6CBta...@207.246.207.115>,

I certainly have no trouble embracing "Shapes of Things" (03/19/1966
and one of my all-time favorites) as the breakthrough and the Yardbirds
as the fathers of commercially successful psychedelia. Between "Eight
Miles High" and "Shapes of Things" we certainly seem to have pegged the
timeframe as March/April, 1966.

I still believe that "19th Nervous Breakdown" and "Nowhere Man" are at
least protopsych. (I have no idea where the suggestion that Pitney's
"Mecca" is psych comes from. Other than the fact that it has an exotic
Middle Eastern feel to it, it's just another boy-wants-girl pop song.)

[marcus60s]

On May 20, 9:00 am, Curmudgeon <le...@me.alone> wrote:
> In article <XnsA058A4881C6CBtaliesyn4netscape...@207.246.207.115>,

>
>
>
>
>
> Taliesyn <talies...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > Jim Colegrove <co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote in
> >news:0l8fr7h4om8h654kq...@4ax.com:
>

> > > On Sat, 19 May 2012 21:51:44 +1000, hislop <takecarebew...@gmail.com>

As much as I am a tremendously big fan of The Beatles, and love
"Nowhere Man", I don't view it as a psychedelic song.

"Rain" on the other hand....

[Curmudgeon]

In article
<3f796992-60bd-4403...@r3g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,

Good call on "Rain" but I hear echoes of "Nowhere Man" when I listen to
the two back-to-back. No matter. As I said before, I think NM may be
proto-psychedelic, but R is fully fledged. (Get it? Yardbirds? Byrds?
Fledged = "feathered"? Giggle . . .)

[Curmudgeon]

I've been continuing to listen to tracks from late 1965 and early 1966
to see if I can determine for myself what the first charted psychedelic
song might be, and I have identified a new candidate from 10/30/1965.

Might Van Morrison and his colleagues with Them have kicked things off
with "Mystic Eyes" (which my best friend Rick and I thought was "Mister
Guise")? It's got that Bo Diddley beat which featured earlier in this
discussion and a "freak-out" feel to the vocal, harp, and guitar parts.

It's hard to believe that Van the Man might have introduced psychedelia
but listening to it now is pretty persuasive. And I love the fact that
it entered the charts on (or about) Halloween!

What say y'all?

[BobbyM]

On 22-May-12 9:42 PM, Curmudgeon wrote:
> I've been continuing to listen to tracks from late 1965 and early 1966
> to see if I can determine for myself what the first charted psychedelic
> song might be, and I have identified a new candidate from 10/30/1965.
>
> Might Van Morrison and his colleagues with Them have kicked things off
> with "Mystic Eyes" (which my best friend Rick and I thought was "Mister
> Guise")? It's got that Bo Diddley beat which featured earlier in this
> discussion and a "freak-out" feel to the vocal, harp, and guitar parts.
>
> It's hard to believe that Van the Man might have introduced psychedelia
> but listening to it now is pretty persuasive. And I love the fact that
> it entered the charts on (or about) Halloween!

Not psych, IMO.

[marcus60s]

On May 22, 8:42 am, Curmudgeon <le...@me.alone> wrote:
> I've been continuing to listen to tracks from late 1965 and early 1966
> to see if I can determine for myself what the first charted psychedelic
> song might be, and I have identified a new candidate from 10/30/1965.
>
> Might Van Morrison and his colleagues with Them have kicked things off
> with "Mystic Eyes" (which my best friend Rick and I thought was "Mister
> Guise")?  It's got that Bo Diddley beat which featured earlier in this
> discussion and a "freak-out" feel to the vocal, harp, and guitar parts.
>
> It's hard to believe that Van the Man might have introduced psychedelia
> but listening to it now is pretty persuasive.  And I love the fact that
> it entered the charts on (or about) Halloween!
>
> What say y'all?
>

Here's another from around the same time period, maybe a bit later,
"Don't Worry Mother (Your Son's Heart Is Pure" by the McCoys.

[Curmudgeon]

In article <jph9or$8qc$1...@dont-email.me>, BobbyM

I hear a large amount of similarity between "Mystic Eyes" and "You're
Gonna Miss Me" by the 13th Floor Elevators (08/20/1966, the day before
my 15th birthday), and I think there's little debate that YGMM is true
psychedelia. What (IYO) distinguishes one as non-psych and the other
as psych? ME sounded like nothing else out at the time, that's sure!

[BobbyM]

On 5/25/2012 9:21 AM, Curmudgeon wrote:
> In article<jph9or$8qc$1...@dont-email.me>, BobbyM
> <massey...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 22-May-12 9:42 PM, Curmudgeon wrote:
>>> I've been continuing to listen to tracks from late 1965 and early 1966
>>> to see if I can determine for myself what the first charted psychedelic
>>> song might be, and I have identified a new candidate from 10/30/1965.
>>>
>>> Might Van Morrison and his colleagues with Them have kicked things off
>>> with "Mystic Eyes" (which my best friend Rick and I thought was "Mister
>>> Guise")? It's got that Bo Diddley beat which featured earlier in this
>>> discussion and a "freak-out" feel to the vocal, harp, and guitar parts.
>>>
>>> It's hard to believe that Van the Man might have introduced psychedelia
>>> but listening to it now is pretty persuasive. And I love the fact that
>>> it entered the charts on (or about) Halloween!
>>
>> Not psych, IMO.
>
> I hear a large amount of similarity between "Mystic Eyes" and "You're
> Gonna Miss Me" by the 13th Floor Elevators (08/20/1966, the day before
> my 15th birthday), and I think there's little debate that YGMM is true
> psychedelia. What (IYO) distinguishes one as non-psych and the other
> as psych? ME sounded like nothing else out at the time, that's sure!

Actually, I think "You're Gonna Miss Me" is one of the least psych songs
on that first lp. I mean there's very little there to distinguish it as
psych. It's just a more professionally performed & recorded version of
the song that Roky had recorded with The Spades. Adding a jug to the
musical accompaniment certainly isn't enough to push it over the edge
from garage to psych & the lyrics are hardly psych either.

Mystic Eyes & practically everything Them recorded (when Morrison was a
member) was r&b based rock & roll. "Mystic Eyes" is almost an
amalgamation musically of "Gloria" & "Little Girl" (the latter was
recorded around the same time as "Mystic Eyes").

[blu...@comcast.net]

The McCoys song is one of the great lost psych singles...GREAT song!!

Did anyone mention that the Yardbirds original "Heart Full of Soul"
from (iirc) fall '65 had sitar on it.

But I would go with the original Byrds "Eight Miles High" from late
'65.
Jay

[hislop]

On 25/05/2012 10:21 AM, Curmudgeon wrote:
> In article<jph9or$8qc$1...@dont-email.me>, BobbyM
> <massey...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 22-May-12 9:42 PM, Curmudgeon wrote:
>>> I've been continuing to listen to tracks from late 1965 and early 1966
>>> to see if I can determine for myself what the first charted psychedelic
>>> song might be, and I have identified a new candidate from 10/30/1965.
>>>
>>> Might Van Morrison and his colleagues with Them have kicked things off
>>> with "Mystic Eyes" (which my best friend Rick and I thought was "Mister
>>> Guise")? It's got that Bo Diddley beat which featured earlier in this
>>> discussion and a "freak-out" feel to the vocal, harp, and guitar parts.
>>>
>>> It's hard to believe that Van the Man might have introduced psychedelia
>>> but listening to it now is pretty persuasive. And I love the fact that
>>> it entered the charts on (or about) Halloween!
>>
>> Not psych, IMO.
>
> I hear a large amount of similarity between "Mystic Eyes" and "You're
> Gonna Miss Me" by the 13th Floor Elevators (08/20/1966, the day before
> my 15th birthday), and I think there's little debate that YGMM is true
> psychedelia. What (IYO) distinguishes one as non-psych and the other
> as psych? ME sounded like nothing else out at the time, that's sure!

I'm pretty sure YGMM is really written much earlier than when it was
released and is only about a romance. The presentation on the album
cover and the liner notes based on General Semantics and borrowing from
the book Science and Sanity, are meant to give a psychedelic impression.

[Blue]

On May 15, 7:36 pm, Curmudgeon <le...@me.alone> wrote:
> Earlier today, I programmed my iTunes database (38K+ selections) to
> play whatever Yardbirds tunes I've got (42 selections, just over two
> hours) randomly, and when "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" came on, I
> pondered whether it might be the first charting psychedelic song.
>
> Tracking back from HTYTA (11/26/1966), I discovered many others that
> might claim to have had the same distinction, but ended up just past
> the Byrds' "Eight Miles High" (04/09/1966) at a juxtaposition of the
> Rolling Stones "19th Nervous Breakdown" (02/26/1966) and the Beatles'
> "Nowhere Man" (03/05/1966).
>
> Both seem to me to meet whatever qualifications have been proposed to
> define "psychedelic" music, so I propose the two of them as the pro-
> genitors of the genre.  I look forward to whatever reactions you have
> to this proposal.  (Does it matter?  No.  Is it fun?  Yes!)
>

> --
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mudge
>
> "And if California slides into the ocean like the mystics and
> statistics say it will, I predict this hotel will be standing
> until I pay my bill."

"A Day In The Life", the Beatles.

[BobbyM]

Maybe in your neck in the woods, but psych had been around for quite
awhile before that song was recorded. And, for obvious reasons, it
wasn't released as a single, so it never charted.

[The Bloomfield Bloviator]

What were the "obvious reasons?"

AND it was released as a single, in 1978, B side of "Sgt.
Peppers...With A Little Help....which charted.

[BobbyM]

On 5/27/2012 3:55 PM, The Bloomfield Bloviator wrote:
> On May 27, 2:12 am, BobbyM<masseybNOS...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/27/2012 1:19 PM, Blue wrote:
>>
>>> "A Day In The Life", the Beatles.
>>
>> Maybe in your neck in the woods, but psych had been around for quite
>> awhile before that song was recorded. And, for obvious reasons, it
>> wasn't released as a single, so it never charted.
>
> What were the "obvious reasons?"

Primarily the drug references, particularly McCartney's section
(although real or perceived drug references run throughout the song) - &
it's length - both working against the likelihood that it would get much
radio play - AM radio was still king in 1967. Of course the song could
have been edited down, but if you cut off the instrumental ending, you
take away part of the psychedelic effect. Lennon probably would have
allowed them to edit out McCartney's part but none of his verses.

> AND it was released as a single, in 1978, B side of "Sgt.
> Peppers...With A Little Help....which charted.

10 years after the fact & it didn't chart even then! When I said "never
charted" I was speaking of the timeframe in question. The OP set
certain parameters; this song had no business being nominated - it met
none of the parameters. Now, had the post been, "Name a psych song."....

[marcus60s]

As much as I love ADITL, it wasn't an early psychedelic song.

"Tomorrow Never Knows" preceded it by almost a year, and is definitely
an early psychedelic song.

Marc

http://marccatone.webs.com/beatlessixties.htm

[sandydog]

The big hurt by Miss Toni Fischer

"Curmudgeon" <le...@me.alone> wrote in message

news:150520121836585751%le...@me.alone...

[BobbyM]

On 31-May-12 1:55 AM, sandydog wrote:
> The big hurt by Miss Toni Fischer

Why do you consider it psych? Surely it takes more than just phasing
(or whatever it's called) to make it a psych song.

>

[hislop]

I think people are putting the cart before the horse calling everything
with an interesting sound psychedelic. Psychedelic was really the label
to make the recording seem more interesting. Then later the label
wasn't applied in the same way. A song like Tomorrow Never Knows cuts
through all that, but there were more subtle psychedelic songs. A drug
theme might be intended making a song psychedelic. Without a drug
theme, not really anything before 1966 can be called psychedelic.

As the song 'Suzy Cream Cheese' goes, 'a whole new dimension in sound',
the new sounds got mixed up with the word psychedelic for a while.

[hislop]

On 17/05/2012 4:12 AM, Michael Black wrote:

> On Tue, 15 May 2012, Curmudgeon wrote:
>
>> Earlier today, I programmed my iTunes database (38K+ selections) to
>> play whatever Yardbirds tunes I've got (42 selections, just over two
>> hours) randomly, and when "Happenings Ten Years Time Ago" came on, I
>> pondered whether it might be the first charting psychedelic song.
>>
>> Tracking back from HTYTA (11/26/1966), I discovered many others that
>> might claim to have had the same distinction, but ended up just past
>> the Byrds' "Eight Miles High" (04/09/1966) at a juxtaposition of the
>> Rolling Stones "19th Nervous Breakdown" (02/26/1966) and the Beatles'
>> "Nowhere Man" (03/05/1966).
>>
>> Both seem to me to meet whatever qualifications have been proposed to
>> define "psychedelic" music, so I propose the two of them as the pro-
>> genitors of the genre. I look forward to whatever reactions you have
>> to this proposal. (Does it matter? No. Is it fun? Yes!)
>>

> If it's not from San Francisco, it can't be psychedelic.
>
> That's an exaggeration, but I suspect the earliest is from San Francisco.
>
> It's improvisational, it's long, the lyrics may not exist, or be a
> minimal part of the piece. I don't think it's about the listener, but it
> might require that the performers be on LSD or at least have taken it,
> though I'm not sure if that really matters.
>
> Artists take acid on US government studies. Artists react to that, Kesey
> going off on the bus trip, and the trips festivals. That starts to
> define the music. The kids are tired of folk music (which had better
> lyrics when they were wanted, rather than repetitive rock lyrics that
> seemed aimed at the young teenagers), so when the Beatles play Ed
> Sullivan, they all go electric. It builds up in 1965, the older
> teenagers wanted dance parties but with a more mature feel. They want
> longer songs so they don't have to keep stopping the dancing. So bands
> that probably have taken acid, it was out of the lab by then and still
> legal, they start playing improvisational music to keep the kids
> dancing. The Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver, all of
> those bands. The influences were John Coltrane, and Ravi Shankar. The
> music was fusion, helped by the fact that the first wave of musicians
> had previous experience with folk and blues and bluegrass, and then by
> underground radio that played variety, so people heard different genres.
> Improvisatinal music is like an acid trip, you go over in that
> direction, then pulled in another direction, and then finally back to
> the starting point. This is the same space that "psychedlic" cmae into
> the general culture.
>

LSD was actually referred to as a CIA drug. They may have been
instrumental in its initial spread. People deny it can be used for mind
control, but it certainly can be. You only discover on it what you are
lead to for whatever reason.

> It then seemed to vector to something sort of differernt in the UK and
> Europe, there seems to be a distinctive difference, and it seems many
> people think only the UK stuff is psychedelic.

One can throw in 'raga rock' as a spanner in the works.

>
> And then it got watered down, and it was Disneyfied for the masses, so
> The Strawberry Alarm Clock with short songs get classified in the same
> category, despite coming from a very commercial place. That stuff may be
> most obvious, with nobody really stopping to think about it.

There's nostalgia, criticizing the Strawberry Alarm Clock.
Commercial 60s music equates to underground 80s music.

[gera...@earthlink.net]

I wonder whether we aren't focussing too much on what was recorded.
Isn't is possible that the really avant-garde psychedelia was being
performed live by obscure bands long before they got record contracts?

Nobody has mentioned Pearls Before Swine. I know their first album
wasn't till 1967, but they were around in 1965 and may have been
performing some of the same stuff. If the stuff on "One Nation
Underground" was around in 1965, they have a fair claim to be amongst
the pioneers.

My guess is that the big-name bands just jumped on the bandwagon,
taking cues from obscure groups that are now long-forgotten.

P.S. "Grim reaper of love" isn't psychedelic, but it's a good
recording (lots of energy, and very different) that should not have
become as forgotten and ignored as it has been.

[BobbyM]

All fine & good but the OP was looking for the 1st psych song to chart.
Some of the stuff that The Fugs & David Peel were doing might be
considered psych today as well, but it sure as heck wasn't going to chart.

[DianeE]

"BobbyM" <massey...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jqttdl$c4p$2...@dont-email.me...

------------
I would call David Peel & The Lower East Side proto-punk, if anything. I
used to go to the Central Park fountain to hear them perform live. Nothing
psychedelic about their sound, unless you count singing "I like marijuana,
you like marijuana, we like marijuana too" to the tune of "Peanut Butter" as
psychedelic.

DianeE

[F R]

I would call David Peel & The Lower East Side proto-punk, if anything. I
used to go to the Central Park fountain to hear them perform live.
Nothing psychedelic about their sound, unless you count singing "I like
marijuana, you like marijuana, we like marijuana too" to the tune of
"Peanut Butter" as psychedelic.
DianeE

--------------------
Good memory jog with those lyrics Diane. Peel also hung around
Washington Square Park often, drawing a small crowd just because he was
David Peel. In the early-mid '70s, WSP was the easiest place to score a
$10 bag below 125th Street.

[BobbyM]

On 6/9/2012 9:29 AM, DianeE wrote:
> "BobbyM"<massey...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jqttdl$c4p$2...@dont-email.me...
>> On 6/9/2012 3:34 AM, gera...@earthlink.net wrote:
>>> I wonder whether we aren't focussing too much on what was recorded.
>>> Isn't is possible that the really avant-garde psychedelia was being
>>> performed live by obscure bands long before they got record contracts?
>>>
>>> Nobody has mentioned Pearls Before Swine. I know their first album
>>> wasn't till 1967, but they were around in 1965 and may have been
>>> performing some of the same stuff. If the stuff on "One Nation
>>> Underground" was around in 1965, they have a fair claim to be amongst
>>> the pioneers.
>>>
>>> My guess is that the big-name bands just jumped on the bandwagon,
>>> taking cues from obscure groups that are now long-forgotten.
>>>
>>> P.S. "Grim reaper of love" isn't psychedelic, but it's a good
>>> recording (lots of energy, and very different) that should not have
>>> become as forgotten and ignored as it has been.
>>

>> All fine& good but the OP was looking for the 1st psych song to chart.
>> Some of the stuff that The Fugs& David Peel were doing might be

>> considered psych today as well, but it sure as heck wasn't going to chart.
> ------------

> I would call David Peel& The Lower East Side proto-punk, if anything. I

> used to go to the Central Park fountain to hear them perform live. Nothing
> psychedelic about their sound, unless you count singing "I like marijuana,
> you like marijuana, we like marijuana too" to the tune of "Peanut Butter" as
> psychedelic.

Diane, I was being a bit facetious. There are some folks who think that
a psych song has to be about drugs or tripping and/or the song can only
be enjoyed when on drugs. I'm not one of them, but if drugs or was a
qualifier both The Fugs & David Peel would fit the bill.

[Jim Colegrove]

When I read things like this and Frank's comment, I feel like I could
have brushed shoulders with you folks somewhere just before I left the
east coast in 1974. I lived in the city from June '67 to July '70.
Then upstate until June 1974 but I was routinely in town from
time-to-time for some reason or other. When I lived in the city the
last place Iived was on Thompson at Prince.

Jim Colegrove
www.thecoolgroove.com

[DianeE]

"Jim Colegrove" <co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote in message
news:3cg5t796gismlm9h0...@4ax.com...
>.... I feel like I could

> have brushed shoulders with you folks somewhere just before I left the
> east coast in 1974. I lived in the city from June '67 to July '70.
> Then upstate until June 1974 but I was routinely in town from
> time-to-time for some reason or other. When I lived in the city the
> last place Iived was on Thompson at Prince.

-------------
You were Soho when Soho wasn't cool!

DianeE

[DianeE]

"F R" <espo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13109-4FD...@storefull-3111.bay.webtv.net...

-------------
I didn't like smoking pot and after the 60s I never did it again...which is
probably why I still have some memory left today.

Unfortunately I did like other stuff, but pot is notorious for damaging your
memory. (Timothy Leary's answer to that was "Bring a pen.")

DianeE

[F R]

When I read things like this and Frank's comment, I feel like I could
have brushed shoulders with you folks somewhere just before I left the
east coast in 1974. I lived in the city from June '67 to July '70. Then
upstate until June 1974 but I was routinely in town from time-to-time
for some reason or other. When I lived in the city the last place Iived
was on Thompson at Prince.
Jim Colegrove

-----------------------
Almost neighbors JIm. I lived on 11th Street between University and 5th.
If you ever played in WSP on week-ends I might have seen you perform. I
played volleyball there and watched the chess hustlers in the southwest
corner, right by NYU.

[F R]

I didn't like smoking pot and after the 60s I never did it again...which
is probably why I still have some memory left today.
Unfortunately I did like other stuff, but pot is notorious for damaging
your memory. (Timothy Leary's answer to that was "Bring a pen.")
DianeE

----------------------
I think it's person to person thing Diane. I smoked pot for close to 40
years and still have a better memory than most of my peers. Quaaludes
however were another story....

[The Bloomfield Bloviator]

On Jun 9, 2:53 pm, espon...@webtv.net (F R) wrote:

> I smoked pot for close to 40 years

That explains a lot.

[Michael Black]

On Fri, 8 Jun 2012, DianeE wrote:

> I would call David Peel & The Lower East Side proto-punk, if anything. I
> used to go to the Central Park fountain to hear them perform live. Nothing
> psychedelic about their sound, unless you count singing "I like marijuana,
> you like marijuana, we like marijuana too" to the tune of "Peanut Butter" as
> psychedelic.
>

Yes, whatever "psychedelic" is, it's not someone merely singing about
drugs.

It reminds me. About 20 years ago, there was a something on PBS called
"Dominoes", which was basically footage from the sixties with various
songs from the sixties, a string of sort of after the fact music videos.
It played a few times, then disappeared, I get the impression it's one of
those things that got limited music rights, so it's not available anymore,
but who knows.

I thought they matched the video well with the music, but I've seen
criticism. And pertinent to this, they ended with David Peel and The
Lower East Side, I think they actually appear, but I can't remember.

Michael

[hislop]

On 10/06/2012 2:09 PM, Michael Black wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jun 2012, DianeE wrote:
>
>> I would call David Peel & The Lower East Side proto-punk, if anything. I
>> used to go to the Central Park fountain to hear them perform live.
>> Nothing
>> psychedelic about their sound, unless you count singing "I like
>> marijuana,
>> you like marijuana, we like marijuana too" to the tune of "Peanut
>> Butter" as
>> psychedelic.

Probably was.

>>
> Yes, whatever "psychedelic" is, it's not someone merely singing about
> drugs.

It was at first.

[BobbyM]

On 6/11/2012 9:52 AM, hislop wrote:
> On 10/06/2012 2:09 PM, Michael Black wrote:
>> On Fri, 8 Jun 2012, DianeE wrote:
>>
>>> I would call David Peel & The Lower East Side proto-punk, if anything. I
>>> used to go to the Central Park fountain to hear them perform live.
>>> Nothing
>>> psychedelic about their sound, unless you count singing "I like
>>> marijuana,
>>> you like marijuana, we like marijuana too" to the tune of "Peanut
>>> Butter" as
>>> psychedelic.
>
> Probably was.
>
>>>
>> Yes, whatever "psychedelic" is, it's not someone merely singing about
>> drugs.
>
> It was at first.

I guess it's settled then. The first psychedelic hit was Cab Calloway's
"Minnie the Moocher".

(note: while alcohol & love are drugs, they are not in contention for
this title.)