when did the 60s really begin?
Steve Propes
records in this group. Right now, there's a 60s group (this one) and a
50s group - which definitely isn't the right place for surf postings -
though it would seem that people in the 50s group have more interest in
surf than posters in this group do, a group which incorporates the surf
time-frame.
So would it make more sense to separate out the groups to more
interest-oriented time frames like rec.music.rock.pre-Beatles and
rec.music.rock.post-Beatles instead of the arbitrary ones like 50s 60s
and 70s?
In other words, to some at least, did the 60s really start in Jan. 64
with the British Invasion?
Steve
Geir Hongro
news:3DF66A...@loop.com...
> In other words, to some at least, did the 60s really start in Jan. 64
> with the British Invasion?
In America it did. In Europe, the 60s started with "Please Please Me" in
early 1963.
Geir Hongro
Dean F.
All I know is, if I want to write about surf music, I'm going to post those
writings here. People with no interest in the genre are free to skip
whatever postings I make about surf-rock. Simple as that.
--D.F.
Sean Carroll
wrote:
>Norm Katuna made an interesting point about the apathy concerning surf
>records in this group. Right now, there's a 60s group (this one) and a
>50s group - which definitely isn't the right place for surf postings -
>though it would seem that people in the 50s group have more interest in
>surf than posters in this group do, a group which incorporates the surf
>time-frame.
>So would it make more sense to separate out the groups to more
>interest-oriented time frames like rec.music.rock.pre-Beatles and
>rec.music.rock.post-Beatles instead of the arbitrary ones like 50s 60s
>and 70s?
I don't know about everyone else, but I love early 60s surf music
almost as much as I do the early British Invasion stuff. Even the
doo-wop holdovers post-1960 are more interesting to me than most of
the 50s stuff (except the true rock 'n' roll -- Little Richard, early
Elvis, Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, etc).
Jim Colegrove
wrote:
>Norm Katuna made an interesting point about the apathy concerning surf
This is a topic that has been sifted through here before. To many the
sixties began with the assassination of JFK.
Jim Colegrove
co...@thecoolgroove.com
Mister Charlie
JR13157
Yeah... but only if you're trying to show people how sensitive you are; like
the people who applaud everytime someone mentions John Lennon (applaud... then
light a candle for some reason).
Musically, the 60's began in... 1960. Or should we dismiss the work of Del
Shannon, much of Gene Pitney, Roy Orbison, Brenda Lee, etc. The whole "when
did the 60's begin" thing is kind of pointless.
Walt.
Dean F.
"JR13157" wrote:
> The whole "when did the 60's begin" thing is kind of pointless.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of regulars at this group don't seem to
give a damn about anything pre-Beatles; and as you get later into the '60s,
they only seem interested in AOR. Check out this immortal quote from our
resident, ahem, expert:
"Geir Hongro" wrote:
> 1961, like 1960 and 1962 plus the entire 50s, was an inferor year, so I
see
> nothing to create my own list from that year. Everything worth listening
to
> started with The Beatles anyway, before that it is just Tin Pan Alley and
> classical music that is worth checking out.
Mister Charlie
"JR13157" <jr1...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021211002951...@mb-cg.aol.com...
Not at all, not musically. The first 3 years of the sixties were far
more related to what came before than to what would come after.
Mister Charlie
"Dean F." <soulexpre...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:4rmcne7627h...@giganews.com...
>
> "JR13157" wrote:
>
> > The whole "when did the 60's begin" thing is kind of pointless.
>
> Unfortunately, the vast majority of regulars at this group don't seem
to
> give a damn about anything pre-Beatles; and as you get later into the
'60s,
> they only seem interested in AOR.
There was a great deal of fantastic music in those first 3 years.
Unfortunately the teen Fabian/Frankie Avalon sort of syrupy idol set
ruled and that was not where the best music was. The mention of Del
Shannon and others IS a good point.
Bob Roman
<soulexpre...@attbi.com> wrote:
>Unfortunately, the vast majority of regulars at this group don't seem to
>give a damn about anything pre-Beatles; and as you get later into the '60s,
>they only seem interested in AOR. Check out this immortal quote from our
>resident, ahem, expert:
>"Geir Hongro" wrote:
Using Geir to gauge the temperature here is like using Bruce to make a
point about politeness.
Bob Roman
Jim Colegrove
I believe that viewpoint has more to do with the consciousness of a
generation.
Jim Colegrove
co...@thecoolgroove.com
JRWOLFESTR
JR13157
For what it's worth.... except for "Why", which was released in late 1959,
neither Frankie nor Fabian had a single Top 20 hit during the 60's. These
low-talent fellows were pretty-much played out musically by 1960.
Walt.
Mister Charlie
I was describing a genre, not necessarily those two specifically.
JR13157
>I was describing a genre, not necessarily those two specifically.
Right... but at least the two worst offenders were over with. Some of the
other "teen favs" of the time put out some decent records... Tony Orlando
(Bless You), Johnny Tillotson (Poetry In Motion), even Brian Hyland did some
good songs. The early (pre-Beatles) 60's were by no means a musical wasteland
as re-writers of music history would have you believe.
Walt.
Dauber
>In other words, to some at least, did the 60s really start in Jan. 64
>with the British Invasion?
Steve, I'm sure this has been discussed to death in various fora, both online and offline.
And I believe that the consensus was that the '60s truly started on January 1, 1960.
[sorry, couldn't resist!]
--
dau...@wallnet.com * ICQ: 28677921 * www.wallnet.com/~dauber
Mister Charlie
No one needs to re-write history, the charts are there for all to see.
Geir Hongro
"Jim Colegrove" <co...@thecoolgroove.com> skrev i melding
> This is a topic that has been sifted through here before. To many the
> sixties began with the assassination of JFK.
Since that was about the same time that The Beatles arrived on the scene,
that would be just about correct anyway....
Geir Hongro
Geir Hongro
"Mister Charlie" <smoker...@myway.com> skrev i melding
news:at6m97$10rku9$1...@ID-63206.news.dfncis.de...
> There was a great deal of fantastic music in those first 3 years.
> Unfortunately the teen Fabian/Frankie Avalon sort of syrupy idol set
> ruled and that was not where the best music was. The mention of Del
> Shannon and others IS a good point.
Del Shannon was OK. Girl groups were OK. Beach Boys started about the same
time as The Beatles and were OK. Other than that, The Beatles were the
start.
Geir Hongro
Dean F.
"Mister Charlie" wrote:
> There was a great deal of fantastic music in those first 3 years.
> Unfortunately the teen Fabian/Frankie Avalon sort of syrupy idol set
> ruled and that was not where the best music was. The mention of Del
> Shannon and others IS a good point.
Don't get me wrong. I'll be the first to acknowledge that, for various
reasons, the early 1960s produced a bumper crop of garbage music. But
thankfully, some 40 years later, it's a lot easier for someone such as I to
wade through the crap and get to the good stuff. Thanks to CD reissues (not
to mention the numerous knowledgeable collectors I've befriended over the
years), I've latched on to surf music, girl groups, all those fun dance
tunes, the doo-wop revival, the earliest rumblings of soul, and the birth of
producer-oriented music. Simultaneously, I've been able to ignore MOR, those
godawful teen idols, and what I've taken to calling "pop and roll."
It takes work, but if you're tenacious enough, you can find plenty of damned
good music from the post-Buddy/pre-Beatles era of rock 'n' roll!
--D.F.
greybeard
my favotire genre's but I only know I like to listen to it, although
if your familiar with the Ventures I would appreciate some comment to
my thread on Ventures in Space.
I wouldn;t mind seeing more girl group talk either.
It start Jan 1, 1960, only the musical end of decade should be in
question.
Greybeard
FiLL
the 70's: Mountain - Mississippi Queen at the beginning and Village People -
In The Navy near the end. What could possibly be defined as 70's music?
FiLL
--
"Steve Propes" <spr...@loop.com> wrote in message
news:3DF66A...@loop.com...
Geir Hongro
"JRWOLFESTR" <jrwol...@aol.com> skrev i melding
news:20021211125902...@mb-ma.aol.com...
> about a scond after midnight on Dec 31,1959
Technically, yes, but musically, it is somewhat different. :-)
I would say the 60s started in January 1963 when The Beatles released
"Please Please Me". The same way, the 50s didn't really start until
"Blackboard Jungle" and "Rock Around The Clock" about mid-decade. The 70s
didn't really start until glamrock and prog really started happening around
71-72. The 80s started when the New Romantic movement, through Human League,
Soft Cell, Duran Duran and others, started having hits in 1981. The 90s
started when Nirvana released "Nevermind", and the 00s (or whatever they
will be called) haven't really started yet the way I see it, as everything
around is still very much 90s.
Geir Hongro
jackkincaid
> did the 60s really start in Jan. 64 with the British Invasion?
What about Britain? We didn't have a 'British invasion'. We were
already here.
The 1960s began in 1963. Here's why:
1) Before something starts, something else has to end: Elvis began his
second Hollywood career of crappy lightweight teen fodder movies.
Rock'n'roll was dead, maaaan.
Meanwhile, in the UK:
2) The Beatles were back from Hamburg, and had their first No1 with
their second single, Please Please Me (Love Me Do was released late 62
but hadn't been a big hit). Beatlemania was just starting.
In the US:
3) The Beach Boys had a hit with Surfin' USA. The surf scene was
making waves (geddit? Making wav... ah, forget it...)
In the UK:
4) The Rolling Stones had secured their residency at the Crawdaddy
Club, in west London, and were building up a huge following. They
released their first single, Come On, that year.
In the US:
5) Bob Dylan's second album, The Freewheelin'..., had made his name,
with songs like Blowin' In the Wind and Masters of War. He had HIS
residency in Greenwich Village, and the folkie scene was taking off.
In the UK:
6) Mod, AKA the greates ever teen fashion, was at its peak, and the
annual Mod v Rockers battles a much-loved national institution. The
High Numbers (who became Mod band no2, the Who), were already gigging.
In the US:
7) The magic bus started, as Ken Kessey, Jerry Garcia, 'Dean Moriarty'
and the Merry Pranksters brought their electric Kool-aid acid test to
a town near YOU.
In the UK:
8) The Profumo Affair happened, in which the defence minister of the
Conservative government had been caught frolicking with a couple of,
ahem, 'models' (Christine Keeler and Mandy Rice-Davies), one of whom
had a Russian spy for a boyfriend (as well as a gun-toting Jamaican
dope-dealer, another sign of the changing times for sleepy London
town), which brought down the Prime Minister of the day.
In the US:
9) Texan beatnik Jack 'Jaxon' Jackson published and sold (by hand, on
the Haight-Ashbury street corner) the first ever underground comic
book, God Nose - unless that honour goes to Robert Crumb, who
published (but didn't sell) HIS first underground comic book, in
faraway Cleveland, Ohio.
In the UK:
10) The Conservative government on its last legs, the Labour Party
opposition leader, Hugh Gaitskill, (rumoured to have been poisoned)
suddenly dies of a mysterious illness after a trip to Moscow. His
replacement is Harold Wilson (rumoured to be a Kremlin agent).
Meanwhile, a real Kremlin agent, top MI5 officer Kim Philby (the man
behind, so to speak, Burgess, McLean and Blunt), is found out, causing
enormous uproar at the Pentagon (then, as now, Britain had sole access
to CIA intelligence). The Cold War Age of Paranoia officially starts
here. This was also the year the British Empire was finally wound up.
In the US:
11) As a result of events above, new CIA boss James Jesus Angleton
gets it into his head the Brits can't be trusted! (The nerve!). The
backwash from Bay of Pigs starts here, as does US involvement in
Vietnam. More optimistically, the US Civil Rights movement gains the
attention of the world (and wasn't this the year Nelson Mandela was
imprisoned?).
In the UK:
12) The satire boom! Following the political events above, the first
UK TV satirical show, That Was The Week That Was (David Frost etc.),
brings down the government (or something); Peter Cook's Establishment
Club opens, Lenny Bruce is invited over and blows everyone away;
satirical magazine Private Eye is relaunched with Cook's money.
In the US:
13) Back to comic books: the Marvel Age began here - Spiderman, Thor,
Dredevil, The Hulk, The X-Men, The Fantastic Four - not all in that
year precisely, but around that time.
In the UK:
14) Nicely timed with Cold War events, the first James Bond film, Dr
No, is released, making a star out of Sean Connery. In the same year,
Michael Caine appears in his first starring role, in Zulu. Also in
Britain round about this time, A Taste of Honey, This Sporting Life
and Tom Jones are released, making the names of Britain's 'new wave'
directors, Tony Richardson, Lindsay Anderson and John Schlesinger. A
new kind of working class star and happening cinema was being invented
in Britain, thus postponing the UK film industry's total collapse a
few more years. Fab!
In the US:
15) Stanley Kubrick releases Dr Strangelove (before moving to Britain,
symbolically enough). Joseph Heller's Catch 22, published the previous
year, becomes a wordwide hit. The Graduate is published.
In the UK:
16) The photographer David Bailey had his first exhibition (I think),
so did the painter David Hockney (I think), and Mary Quant opened the
Kings Road designer clothes store, Biba (I think).
In the US:
17) Andy Warhol opened the Factory to every speedfreak and
transvestite superstar in New York.
In the UK:
18) Danger Man (Patrick McGoohan) and The Saint (Roger Moore) started
on TV, and John Steed (Patrick McNee) joined The Avengers. Dr Who also
began.
In the US:
19) How did I forget? Tamla Motown started this year - The Sound of
Young America. So did Stax Atlantic (more or less). I was originally
going to say, Batman began on TV...
In the UK:
20) The poet Phillip Larkin said the 60s began this year (kind of):
'Sex began in 1963
With the Beatles' first LP etc.'
What he meant was, contraceptive pills for women became available this
year.
And finally, in the US:
21) President John F Kennedy was asassinated, sparking off (even then)
rumours of CIA plots and conspiracies.
The age of pop and rock music, free love, cold war paranoia, Vietnam,
class mobility, fashion and new cinema all began here. The 60s HAD to
have begun in 1963.
Bob Roman
1961: "Runaway" - Del Shannon
Both fully "sixties" songs.
The calender was right on target.
Bob Roman
JR13157
Exactly. There were also 7 Top 10 hits for Roy Orbison. Folks who dismiss the
early 60's as merely Frankie/Fabian years... as opposed to the REAL 60's..
somehow fail to notice that Bobby Goldsboro, Dean Martin, and even Ronnie Dove
had their greatest success during those Beatles years.
Walt.
Dean F.
"JR13157" wrote:
> Folks who dismiss the
> early 60's as merely Frankie/Fabian years... as opposed to the REAL
60's..
> somehow fail to notice that Bobby Goldsboro, Dean Martin, and even Ronnie
Dove
> had their greatest success during those Beatles years.
Not to mention some of the godawful crap that went to #1 on the Billboard
Hot 100 between 1964 and '69. Examples include "The Ballad of the Green
Berets," "Mrs. Brown, You've Got A Lovely Daughter," "Mr. Lonely,"
"Winchester Cathedral," "Something Stupid," "The Happening," "Honey," "This
Guy's In Love With You," and "The Love Theme From Romeo & Juliet."
Mister Charlie
Dino? Bobby Goldsboro? You're actually making my case for me! :)
JR13157
opposed to the REAL 60's.. somehow fail to notice that Bobby Goldsboro, Dean
Martin, and even Ronnie Dove had their greatest success during those Beatles
years
>Dino? Bobby Goldsboro? You're actually making my case for me! :)
Actually, the case you seemed to be trying to make is that after 1963 we were
treated to nothing but great rock and roll... led by the Beatles; whereas music
from 1960-63 was nothing but treacly crap delivered by a handful of
pretty-boys. This simply wasn't the case.
Walt.
Mister Charlie
Not necessarily Walt. 60-63 was a different KIND of music. Of course
there were many great songs released in those years, and conversely
there was much absolute stunning garbage released from 63-70.
It's just that when the Beatles broke the whole matrix changed, and
changed again. It was the signalling of a rare burst of universal
creativity. The 60-63 period (to me anyway) was still part of the 50's
template, the casting about for the 'next great thing'.
(BTW: I like Dino and Bobby a lot...and I even own Ronnie Dove doing
Mountain of Love, an all time favrotie...even tho that was released
after 64).
BobbyTheD
>
>
>The 1960s began in 1963. Here's why:
>
>6) Mod, AKA the greates ever teen fashion, was at its peak, and the
>annual Mod v Rockers battles a much-loved national institution.
OK, I'll bite. What was mod and why was it the greatest ever teen fashion?
>In the US:
>
>7) The magic bus started, as Ken Kessey, Jerry Garcia, 'Dean Moriarty'
>and the Merry Pranksters brought their electric Kool-aid acid test to
>a town near YOU.
Are you sure they started this early? I would have said '65/'66 for this.
BTW, they never came anywhere near me, nor most kids growing up in Middle
America....they were mainly a west-coast thing.
>In the US:
>
>19) How did I forget? Tamla Motown started this year - The Sound of
>Young America. So did Stax Atlantic (more or less). I was originally
>going to say, Batman began on TV...
Batman was 1966. Motown goes back to around 1960 or 61...while Berry
Gordy's family of labels really took off in '63, he had hits before
that..."Please Mr. Postman" was 1961. Not sure about Stax...it never
acheived the widespread airplay Motown stuff did...was more restricted to
soul/R&B stations in the south.
jackkincaid
> (jackkincaid) wrote:
>
First of all, can I just say I was responding to the guy who said the
60s began in 1964, because of the 'British Invasion', which I thought
both an overly America-centric view of things, while simultaneously
not giving enough credit to changes in US music.
I know the 60s *actually* began in 1960 (some say '61), but
nevertheless I do think certain social changes in '63 (JFK's
assasination, the Profumo scandal, the Pill, the acid test, the satire
boom) and musical changes (Beatles, Dylan, Stones) make it the best
starting point for the so-called 'swinging sixties' (or US
equivalent).
Some say pop/rock music follows four-year cycles, like this:
'55-'59 (rock'n'roll)
'59-'63 (Brill Building-style pop, trad jazz, skiffle, modal jazz)
'63-'67 (Merseybeat, folk, R&B, Tamla, Atlantic soul, psychedelic,
ska)
'67-'71 (progressive, heavy metal, occult, Stax soul, rocksteady)
'71-'75 (glam, easy listening, pomp-rock, kraut-rock, TSOP, funk,
roots reggae)
'75-'79 (NY punk, London punk, disco, Eurodisco, ska/mod revival, dub
reggae)
...and so on.
re music mentioned: Del Shannon's Runaway Sue was actually out of
character. Most of his hits were typical teen-weepies (though he has a
great voice). The two Pirates hits (Shakin' All Over, Please Don't
Touch) were even *more* out of character - nothing like this had ever
been heard coming from the UK at that time (unless you count Cliff
Richard's first hit), and was never repeated.
> >
> >The 1960s began in 1963. Here's why:
> >
> >6) Mod, AKA the greates ever teen fashion, was at its peak, and the
> >annual Mod v Rockers battles a much-loved national institution.
>
>
> OK, I'll bite. What was mod and why was it the greatest ever teen fashion?
Jeez. Where to start? It's Mod (capital M), short for Modernism, and
it was a white working class early-60s London youth style which
emulated the early black US jazz and R&B singers, like Miles and
Coltrane, and later, Marvin Gaye, mixed in with the new European
fashions hitting London - smart Italian suits, red tag Levis, French
stripey shirts and French style haircuts, Ben Sherman shirts, suede
loafers, Chelsea boots, Sta-Press jeans etc. etc.
It's hard to explain why it's such a perfect fashion (perfect for
Londoners, that is, although it happened in New York too and
influenced fashion everywhere in the 60s), especially if you haven't
spent three nights straight buzzing on amphetamines, or gone clothes
shopping under the influence of LSD, but believe me, it is. It intends
to be perfect; it verges on prissyness, but like I said, you really
need the drug element to fully understand it. I could tell you
stories, I really could...
Top mod band were the Small Faces, followed by the Who. These days
Paul Weller of the Jam is the ace face, although he blew it by forming
the OTT Style Council. If you really want to know about it, you can
get a general idea by watching the movie Quadrophenia, but the best
place to start is Tom Wolfe's contemporary essay (and the only one he
wrote entirely set outside the US, I think) The Noonday Underground.
>
>
> >In the US:
> >
> >7) The magic bus started, as Ken Kessey,
Kesey
> Jerry Garcia, 'Dean Moriarty'
> >and the Merry Pranksters brought their electric Kool-aid acid test to
> >a town near YOU.
>
>
> Are you sure they started this early?
Yeah.
> I would have said '65/'66 for this.
No, 1963. Read Tom Wolfe again, The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test -
although Wolfe himself didn't join them until '66, the year LSD was
made illegal.
> BTW, they never came anywhere near me, nor most kids growing up in Middle
> America....they were mainly a west-coast thing.
They did cross America, but ran into trouble in the south (I have this
idea that Easy Rider follows one of their routes, but I may have just
made that up).
But yeah, sure, 99% of Americans wouldn't have come across them, I
guess.
>
>
> >In the US:
> >
> >19) How did I forget? Tamla Motown started this year - The Sound of
> >Young America. So did Stax Atlantic (more or less). I was originally
> >going to say, Batman began on TV...
>
> Batman was 1966.
I knew someone would say this. You're right, it was '66. What fooled
me was that the first series was in b&w, and US TV had gone colour in
'65.
> Motown goes back to around 1960 or 61...while Berry
> Gordy's family of labels really took off in '63, he had hits before
> that..."Please Mr. Postman" was 1961.
Yes, but that wasn't on Tamla Motown originally, was it?
> Not sure about Stax...it never
> acheived the widespread airplay Motown stuff did...was more restricted to
> soul/R&B stations in the south.
Atlantic began around '63 or '64. I'm not sure about Stax either, but
that style of Memphis soul came along *around* that time. And didn't
Sam Cooke have his first hits round then?
I might also have mentioned Franki Valli and the Four Seasons. Like
The Beatles, they had their first hit in '62, but really took off in
'63. According to Rolling Stone's Encyclopaedia of Rock, when The
Beatles first arrived in NYC the Four Seasons were set up as their
home-grown rivals, and both bands had to endure some kind of 'battle
of the bands' (publicised by Murray the K, no doubt).
And then there's Peter, Paul and Mary and Joan Baez ... etc.
Ed H.
part of me that thought about girls. 1962/63. 8th grade.Clock radios tuned
to WLS. Cuban Missle Crises was outweighed by my freshman year latin tests
:-(
They hadn't yet dried off the tanks from Korea for use in Nam.
The 60s started with a twist and ended with Orson Bean on the Johnny Carson
show wearing a Nehru jacket.
Ed
"jackkincaid" <theov...@another.com> wrote in message
news:eb35fbed.02121...@posting.google.com...
Geir Hongro
"jackkincaid" <theov...@another.com> skrev i melding
news:eb35fbed.02121...@posting.google.com...
> 19) How did I forget? Tamla Motown started this year
This isn't true. Although I would say that Motown singles from 1963 were the
first ones to have the typical Motown sound.
Geir Hongro
Geir Hongro
"Bob Roman" <Robert...@hotmail.com> skrev i melding
news:3dfad7ae....@news.supernews.com...
> 1960: "Shakin' All Over" - Johnny Kidd & the Pirates
> 1961: "Runaway" - Del Shannon
>
> Both fully "sixties" songs.
Second one is somewhat true. The first one was an early British attempt to
ape the typical 50s rock sounds of the US, and definitely not a typical 60s
song.
Geir Hongro
David Lincoln Brooks
"Steve Propes" <spr...@loop.com> wrote in message
gary
> Norm Katuna made an interesting point about the apathy concerning surf
> records in this group. Right now, there's a 60s group (this one) and a
> though it would seem that people in the 50s group have more interest in
> surf than posters in this group do, a group which incorporates the surf
> time-frame.
>
> So would it make more sense to separate out the groups to more
> interest-oriented time frames like rec.music.rock.pre-Beatles and
> rec.music.rock.post-Beatles instead of the arbitrary ones like 50s 60s
> and 70s?
>
> with the British Invasion?
>
> Steve
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve,
I'm glad to see you here. I'm a newbie to this NG. I live in the same
city you do and I once talked to you on the phone.
IMHO the 60s started, at least musically, in 1957. To me the whole
era from late 50s to late 60s is all one.
Gary
gary
Zaragon
> "Please Please Me". The same way, the 50s didn't really start until
> "Blackboard Jungle" and "Rock Around The Clock" about mid-decade. The 70s
> didn't really start until glamrock and prog really started happening around
> 71-72. The 80s started when the New Romantic movement, through Human League,
> Soft Cell, Duran Duran and others, started having hits in 1981. The 90s
> started when Nirvana released "Nevermind", and the 00s (or whatever they
> will be called) haven't really started yet the way I see it, as everything
> around is still very much 90s.
Very accurate. Most decades begin in the aesthetic sense (music,
fashion, attitudes, etc.) in the "2" year of a decade (1972; 1982;
1992).
Trouble is, 2002 is nearly over and a new decade hasn't yet arrived!
I've had my eyes set on this year sense 1995 because I hate, Hate,
HATE the 90's!!! Why, Why, WHYYYY hasn't this repugnant, crass, awful,
miserable, stupid, tasteless deca(y)de of the 90's been sent to
oblivion where it belongs??!!
Maybe the 00's have more in common with the 50's and 60's and won't
begin until the "4" year? I have my fingers crossed.
TS
Brett A. Pasternack
I don't know that it's always obvious that a new era has begun until
later. I don't know that anyone ten years ago would have realized that
the release of Nevermind would loom so large. Did most people in the 50s
even realize that "Rock Around The Clock" heralded such a sweeping
change?
Then again, if you accept the idea that the 60s began when JFK was shot,
sadly we already have a tragedy of even greater proportions in this
decade.
rzed
"Zaragon" <Zara...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4707a5a8.02121...@posting.google.com...
Be careful what you wish for. Have you seen White Stripe?
--
rzed
rich...@webtv.net
1970.
Richard S.
Zaragon
No, I haven't. What's this?! Are they the chosen ones to usher in a
new aesthetic era??!! Are they even worthy?! Should I run and hide, or
would this be a relief to someone who hated the 90's so much?
TS
Mike Mooney
news:4707a5a8.02121...@posting.google.com...
> "rzed" <Dick....@lexisnexis.com> wrote in message
news:<atnkc0$re6$1...@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com>...
> > "Zaragon" <Zara...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:4707a5a8.02121...@posting.google.com...
> > > "Geir Hongro" <geir...@onlinenospam.no> wrote in message
> > news:<uO7K9.530>
> > > > didn't really start until glamrock and prog really started
> > happening around
> > > > 71-72.
This maybe true for that horrible bastard term "prog", but for me,
"progressive music" was, and always will be, a definitively late 60s form.
It's what we were calling - certainly by 1968/69 - *any* music that was
played BY longhairs FOR longhairs. If it wasn't soul, reggae or teenybop,
had a whiff of drugs about it, and your parents hated it, it was
"progressive" (or "underground" - the terms were interchangeable, in my
circles at any rate) - Jethro Tull, Fleetwood Mac (P. Green version),
Fairport Convention, the Dead, The Byrds, Dylan, the later Beatles & Stones,
*Melanie* fer chrissakes - it was all "progressive". A band did NOT have to
sound like King Crimson to qualify - blues, jazz, folk and
country-influenced artists were definitely progressive provided their
"attitude" was right.
I agree about the rise of glam starting the 70s, but the so-called "prog" of
71-72 was simply a continuation - and a narrowing down, genre-wise - of the
previous era.
(Note that I'm speaking from a UK perspective here - things may have been
different in the US).
Mike
Geir Hongro
"Zaragon" <Zara...@hotmail.com> skrev i melding
news:4707a5a8.02121...@posting.google.com...
> "Geir Hongro" <geir...@onlinenospam.no> wrote in message news:<uO7K9.530>
I would say the 60s started in January 1963 when The Beatles released
> > "Please Please Me". The same way, the 50s didn't really start until
> > "Blackboard Jungle" and "Rock Around The Clock" about mid-decade. The
70s
> > didn't really start until glamrock and prog really started happening
around
> > 71-72. The 80s started when the New Romantic movement, through Human
League,
> > Soft Cell, Duran Duran and others, started having hits in 1981. The 90s
> > started when Nirvana released "Nevermind", and the 00s (or whatever they
> > will be called) haven't really started yet the way I see it, as
everything
> > around is still very much 90s.
>
> Very accurate. Most decades begin in the aesthetic sense (music,
> fashion, attitudes, etc.) in the "2" year of a decade (1972; 1982;
> 1992).
>
> Trouble is, 2002 is nearly over and a new decade hasn't yet arrived!
> I've had my eyes set on this year sense 1995 because I hate, Hate,
> HATE the 90's!!!
I came to terms with the 90s once Britpop happened. So the "hate" decade for
me is 1985-94 rather than 1990 to 1999.
But anyway, I am still waiting for rap to disappear because rap is _very_
90s....
Geir Hongro
Geir Hongro
"Brett A. Pasternack" <bret...@erols.com> skrev i melding
news:3DFEFA...@erols.com...
> I don't know that it's always obvious that a new era has begun until
> later. I don't know that anyone ten years ago would have realized that
> the release of Nevermind would loom so large.
Ten years ago they would, but not 11 years ago when it was just released.
Everyone around agreed that "Nevermind" was important. Personally I was not
too keen on it, but thought at least it was a good alternative to rap and
dance music.
Geir Hongro
Geir Hongro
"rzed" <Dick....@lexisnexis.com> skrev i melding
news:atnkc0$re6$1...@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com...
> Be careful what you wish for. Have you seen White Stripe?
White Stripes are too retro to be able to define the 90s. They do nothing
that Stooges didn't do in 1970.
Geir Hongro
Bob Davis
The 70's ended when eMpTyV started
______________________________
FREE SOUL-PATROL NEWSLETTER!
* The BEST source for Soul, Blues, Funk, Rock and Jazz bi-monthly
* Keep up with what's going on in the music/culture
http://www.soul-patrol.com/newsletter
<a href="http://www.soul-patrol.com/newsletter"> Get the FREE Soul-Patrol
Newsletter</a>
______________________________
"Geir Hongro" <geir...@onlinenospam.no> wrote in message
news:5W3P9.4425$Rc7....@news2.e.nsc.no...
BobbyTheD
>60's began in 63 when JFK was shot and ended in 74 when Nixon left office.
I would say 1973 for the end of the 60s..."official" end of the Vietnam war
& release of Dark Side Of The Moon.