The Vogues?
Ellis Bromberg
I'd like to know a little more about The Vogues...specifically what caused an
apparent change in their direction between about 1966 and 1968.
Your tastes may differ from mine, but I think their two first hits on Co & Ce
records, "You're The One" and "Five O'Clock World," are marvelous,
and showed a lot of promise.
But just a couple of years later, on Reprise recordings, they sound like The
Lettermen with big orchestration remakes of "Turn Around, Look At Me" and
"My Special Angel"---not exactly cutting edge material.
Who knows the story?
Ellis Bromberg Phone: (217) 333-1070
Station Manager FAX: (217) 244-6386
WILL-TV Internet: brom...@uiuc.edu
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Regina Litman
Ellis Bromberg wrote:
>
> I'd like to know a little more about The Vogues...specifically what caused an
> apparent change in their direction between about 1966 and 1968.
>
> Your tastes may differ from mine, but I think their two first hits on Co & Ce
> records, "You're The One" and "Five O'Clock World," are marvelous,
> and showed a lot of promise.
>
> But just a couple of years later, on Reprise recordings, they sound like The
> Lettermen with big orchestration remakes of "Turn Around, Look At Me" and
> "My Special Angel"---not exactly cutting edge material.
>
> Who knows the story?
I can't answer what the story is, only to say that I totally agree with you. I love
those first two, also, as well as what I consider to be their fourth hit, "Land of Milk
and Honey". Before this one but after "Five O'Clock World", they had a hit called
"Magic Town", whose sound is more reminiscent of their Reprise recordings but seemed to
be aimed at the youth market, unlike the Reprise ones, which were remakes of either
1950s stuff or old standards. However, "Magic Town" was not an oldie - it was written
by contemporary Brill Building songwriters Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil. And at the
time, it was just a change of pace, similar to the Beatles slowing down to do "Michelle"
or "Yesterday" or the Rolling Stones slowing down for "Lady Jane" and (about a year
later) "Ruby Tuesday".
A Vogues collection CD of stuff from both periods came out on Rhino a few years ago. As
much as I wanted to get "Land of Milk and Honey", which I hadn't heard since its run as
a current song in June 1966, and "Five O'Clock World", which I didn't have anywhere in
my recorded music collection, I did not buy it because I didn't want any of that Reprise
stuff. (I did have "You're the One" on a Rhino Nuggets series cassette.)
Fortunately, a CD came out last year which just has their Co & Ce stuff. It is _You're
the One: The Best of the Vogues, the Co & Ce Sessions". It is Varese Vintage VSD-5680.
Airplay song number five (since they stopped really being hits after "Land of Milk and
Honey") was another uptempo song, "That's the Tune". Airplay song number six foretold
the Reprise sound - a remake ballad, "Please Mr. Sun". But even this song is more
pleasant to listen to, in my opinion, than "My Special Angel" and "Turn Around, Look at
Me".
Andrew Rogers
In article <32F7D5...@philly.infi.net> Regina Litman <rsli...@philly.infi.net> writes:
>> I'd like to know a little more about The Vogues...specifically what caused an
>> apparent change in their direction between about 1966 and 1968.
They had always been fond of the pre-rock vocal quartet sound (one or two of
'em would team up with a reconstituted Four Coins many years later), and I
suspect that Reprise had the producers, arrangers, and (mostly) budget to
allow them to indulge those tendencies.
>> Your tastes may differ from mine, but I think their two first hits on Co & Ce
>> records, "You're The One" and "Five O'Clock World," are marvelous,
>> and showed a lot of promise.
Never much cared for "You're The One" - the lyrics are cliched and the
"Mountain's High" drumbeat was dated by late '65, but "Five O'Clock World"
is among my favorite singles ever. And *you too* can learn how to play
that ultra-cool 12-string riff at the beginning by setting your browser to
Andrew's Ace Vogues Tabs:
http://metro.turnpike.net/~rogers/TAB/vogues
>I can't answer what the story is, only to say that I totally agree with
>you. I love those first two, also, as well as what I consider to be
>their fourth hit, "Land of Milk and Honey".
There was something about the writing credits or publisher of "Land..."
that suggested a gospel origin, and of course the title itself is a Biblical
image. I always felt that it was deliberately ambiguous whether it was a
love song or a religious song - just who was the "you" that rescued the
narrator?
>Before this one but after
>"Five O'Clock World", they had a hit called "Magic Town", whose sound is
>more reminiscent of their Reprise recordings but seemed to be aimed at
>the youth market, unlike the Reprise ones, which were remakes of either
>1950s stuff or old standards.
The five greatest rock 'n' roll records ever made are "Louie Louie",
"Surfin' Bird", "Wooly Bully", "Pushin' Too Hard", and "Mystic Eyes", so
I don't exactly use the term "underproduced" for the hell of it.
However, I always thought that "Magic Town" sounded *severely* underproduced,
more like a demo than a finished master - the polite piano break in the
middle ruins what little momentum had been building, and the ending is even
weaker. You'd think that Co & Ce (who, according to Nick Cenci, farmed out
the basic tracks to New York studio musicians) could have hired some ace
arranger (where's Charles Calello when you need him?) to do the song
justice - it's not like they couldn't afford a real arrangement on the
followup to two #4 singles.
>And at the time, it was just a change of pace, similar to
>the Beatles slowing down to do "Michelle" or "Yesterday" or the Rolling
>Stones slowing down for "Lady Jane" and (about a year later) "Ruby
>Tuesday".
The Vogues' MOR tendencies had already been established on their albums.
>A Vogues collection CD of stuff from both periods came out on Rhino a
>few years ago.
Long before that there was a Vogues 3" CD on Rhino's "Little Bit O'Gold"
series. All killer, no filler: the first four Co & Ce hits, in glorious
mono. (Damn, I miss those things - I got about a dozen of 'em dirt cheap
as closeouts, but even at full retail they were an extremely cost-effective
way to pick up the handful of worthwhile songs by two- and three-hit
wonders. I mean, is even *Sundazed* serious about a 3-CD set of Beau
Brummels outtakes when I picked up all four of their hit and semi-hit
singles for about $3?)
>Fortunately, a CD came out last year which just has their Co & Ce stuff.
Yeah, and without the hokey overdubbed strings from the Reprise "The Vogues'
Greatest Hits" either - most of the Co & Ce material was only recorded in
mono (Cenci got rid of the session tapes after the mixdown was complete),
so Reprise dubbed some godawful strings into one stereo channel over the
original mono track.
>Airplay song number five (since they stopped really being hits after
>"Land of Milk and Honey") was another uptempo song, "That's the Tune".
>Airplay song number six foretold the Reprise sound - a remake ballad,
>"Please Mr. Sun".
You've got the order reversed - "Please Mr. Sun" was Co & Ce 240, "That's
The Tune" 242. The B-side of the former, "Don't Blame The Rain", was also
done by the Association (as "Don't Blame It On Me") on the the B-side of
"Cherish".
Andrew
David A. Pearlman
>much as I wanted to get "Land of Milk and Honey", which I hadn't heard since its run as
>a current song in June 1966, and "Five O'Clock World", which I didn't have anywhere in
>my recorded music collection, I did not buy it because I didn't want any of that Reprise
>stuff. (I did have "You're the One" on a Rhino Nuggets series cassette.)
>
Well, as far as the best of the vogues goes, you couldn't do better than
the 3" CD that Rhino issued in 1988:
Vogues Rhino R3-73030 (1988)
You're the One
Five O'Clock World
Magic Town
The Land of Milk and Honey
Four hits, all beef, no filler, no Reprise material.
As noted, they became MUCH less interesting after they signed with Reprise.
dap
--
David A. Pearlman email: d...@vpharm.com
Vertex Pharmaceuticals Inc.
130 Waverly St. "There are only 25 great people in the world &
Cambridge, MA 02139-4242 5 of them are hamburgers..." -- Cptn Beefheart
Regina Litman
Andrew Rogers wrote:
>
> There was something about the writing credits or publisher of "Land..."
> that suggested a gospel origin, and of course the title itself is a Biblical
> image. I always felt that it was deliberately ambiguous whether it was a
> love song or a religious song - just who was the "you" that rescued the
> narrator?
As a non-religious person who loves the tune of this song, I like to think that it's a
love song. But even when the song was in its prime back in 1966, I was aware that there
was a Broadway show called _The Land of Milk and Honey_ that was about Israel. When
this song was out, I remember seeing the lyrics in _Song Hits_ or _Hit Parader_, and
several writers were listed. Today, when I checked my Vogues CD, I saw only two. At
the time, I thought the Vogues were an instrument-playing combo, I didn't know how many
members they had, and I figured that each had a hand in writing it. I don't know what
happened in between. The two writers listed on the back of the CD are John Hurley and
Ronnie Wilkins. According to the liner notes, the co-writer's name is Ronnie Wilkin,
who is not to be confused with Bucky "Ronnie" Wilkins. Since I never heard of either
before, it doesn't mean anything to me. The Varese CD does not give publishing credits.
> However, I always thought that "Magic Town" sounded *severely* underproduced,
> more like a demo than a finished master - the polite piano break in the
> middle ruins what little momentum had been building, and the ending is even
> weaker. You'd think that Co & Ce (who, according to Nick Cenci, farmed out
> the basic tracks to New York studio musicians) could have hired some ace
> arranger (where's Charles Calello when you need him?) to do the song
> justice - it's not like they couldn't afford a real arrangement on the
> followup to two #4 singles.
The liner notes say that "Magic Town" was first intended to be a B-side. And in
speculating whether a different cut which was previously unreleased was intended to be
an A-side or a B-side, the liner notes author, Dawn Eden, speculates that the
previously-unreleased song was meant to be a B-side because it "lacks the vocal polish
of their A-sides". So that may explain why "Magic Town" sounds underproduced to you.
> You've got the order reversed - "Please Mr. Sun" was Co & Ce 240, "That's
> The Tune" 242. The B-side of the former, "Don't Blame The Rain", was also
> done by the Association (as "Don't Blame It On Me") on the the B-side of
> "Cherish".
I was relying on my memory. I thought I had remembered hearing "That's The Tune"
shortly after my family got back from vacation in Aug. 1966 and "Please Mr. Sun" well
into the 1966-67 school year, but I checked a few different sources today, retapped my
memory, and realized that I did have them reversed. Catalog numbers don't always give
the order in which something was a hit, since a song may stiff and then get picked up
after the act has success with a later song. Or sometimes a release may be delayed.
Andrew Rogers
In article <32F960...@philly.infi.net> Regina Litman <rsli...@philly.infi.net> writes:
>> However, I always thought that "Magic Town" sounded *severely* underproduced,
>The liner notes say that "Magic Town" was first intended to be a B-side.
Mike McDowell's liner notes to the Rhino _Vogues' Greatest Hits_ (I have it
on vinyl, not sure what the CD says) indicate that the intended A-side was
a cover of the Fenways' (Co & Ce labelmates) "Humpty Dumpty".
Andrew
MADONNA826
No one mentioned "True Lovers" which is a terrific Vogues song I had never
heard until I bought the Rhino CD. It has some doo wop elements in the
background vocals and a nice lead.
I know I'm in the minority but I find the string overdubs of the Co & Ce
records by Reprise interesting and enjoy listening to them side by side
with the originals to compare. The overdubbed version of "Five O'Clock
World" is on the "Good Morning Vietnam" Soundtrack CD.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Madonna
Bass/Baritone
Relatives By Appointment
Acappella Oldies
home page: http://members.aol.com/MADONNA826/index.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Rogers
In article <19970207191...@ladder01.news.aol.com> madon...@aol.com (MADONNA826) writes:
>No one mentioned "True Lovers" which is a terrific Vogues song I had never
>heard until I bought the Rhino CD. It has some doo wop elements in the
>background vocals and a nice lead.
'Cause I couldn't remember the title. That was the B-side of "Land of Milk
and Honey", and was credited to all four Vogues (Burkette/Geyer/Blasko/Miller),
right?
Andrew
Chris
MADONNA826 wrote:
>
> No one mentioned "True Lovers" which is a terrific Vogues song I had > never heard until I bought the Rhino CD. It has some doo wop elements > in the background vocals and a nice lead. I know I'm in the minority > > but I find the string overdubs of the Co & Ce records by Reprise > interesting and enjoy listening to them side by side
> with the originals to compare. The overdubbed version of "Five
> O'Clock World" is on the "Good Morning Vietnam" Soundtrack CD.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bass/Baritone
> Relatives By Appointment
> Acappella Oldies
> home page: http://members.aol.com/MADONNA826/index.html
>
Dan - I agree with you about the string versions. I also like the whole
Reprise catalog. Guess schmaltzy music is my style.
Chris Celebrezze
Andrew Rogers
Andrew Rogers wrote:
> >No one mentioned "True Lovers" which is a terrific Vogues song I had never
> >heard until I bought the Rhino CD. It has some doo wop elements in the
> >background vocals and a nice lead.
> and Honey", and was credited to all four Vogues (Burkette/Geyer/Blasko/Miller),
> right?
Nope - the song I was thinking of turned out to be "Midnight Dreams",
B-side of "That's The Tune". Sorry.
Andrew