My latest "anal-retentive geek" project
Dean F.
outside), I'm assembling a list of factual errors in Dave Marsh's 1989
book, "The Heart of Rock and Soul: The 1001 Greatest Singles Ever
Made." Little did I know what a mammoth undertaking it would be!
Didn't that guy double-check *any* of his data??? Damn!
Sonic
50s
Last time I did this you defended him.
Dean F.
> Have to say, he's up there with Norm M Nite.....
Frankly, this project is breaking my heart. As a young music fan, I
had found Marsh's book very inspiring in that it motivated me to seek
out music that I might not otherwise have thought about, entire genres
included. And without "The Heart of Rock and Soul," I might never have
become a big enough fan of soul music to have hosted my college radio
show, "The Soul Express," from 1994-2009. But looking at the book with
a critical eye some 20 years later, I'm finding even more (and deeper)
flaws than I had noticed previously. For example, Marsh had no problem
with fudging the dates if it meant bolstering his version of events.
In some ways, the book's flaws were as much his editor's fault as
Marsh's. Granted, you couldn't expect a "mere" editor to pick up on
all the music and chart errors that Marsh made, but the book also
bursts with typos, misspellings and internal contradictions that an
editor should have both noticed and corrected. I can only hope that
this person felt sufficiently embarrassed when Marsh's book first hit
the shelves.
By the way, Marsh corrected *none* of his original mistakes in the
1998 reprint. What a shame.
50s
Here's a post you made in February of 2001. Maybe you can apologize
now that you seem to agree with me about the book:
Dean Fiora said...
"SavoyBG" sneered:
> >You need to stop gushing over Marsh's pedestrian list of records, just
because
> >it opened your virgin ears to some good music.
You need to go fuck your mother, you pompous asshole!
50s
I'd help you but I used my copy for toilet paper during the blizzard
of '04.
Dean F.
> Last time I did this you defended him.
I don't believe I defended his factual errors so much as I did the
book as a whole. At the time, I was willing to forgive what I thought
was a relatively small number of mistakes because my younger self had
found the book so inspiring. But that was then and this is now.
Dean F.
> > >You need to stop gushing over Marsh's pedestrian list of records, just
> because
> > >it opened your virgin ears to some good music.
>
> You need to go fuck your mother, you pompous asshole!
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Thanks for the memory, Bruce.
Dean F.
> I'd help you but I used my copy for toilet paper during the blizzard
> of '04.
You used book paper to wipe your butt? Geez, I hope it didn't chafe
you or nothin'.
50s
# 768 - Devil Or Angel - Clovers
March claims that this was the Clovers final hit. I guess he missed
"Love Potion No. 9" three years later.
He also claims in this passage that "Blue Velvet" was from 1954,
although he correctly lists it as 1955 in its own entry.
50s
# 900 - Earth Angel - he claims it was the first independant label R&B
record to hit the pop charts. That's not even close, with things like
"Sixty Minute Man" and even some 40s things.
Dean F.
> Here's one for you:
>
> # 768 - Devil Or Angel - Clovers
>
> March claims that this was the Clovers final hit. I guess he missed
> "Love Potion No. 9" three years later.
Not to mention "Hey Doll Baby" and "Love, Love, Love," both Top 10 R&B
hits after "Devil Or Angel." But that's a great example of the kind of
sloppy research I'm talking about.
Right now I'm at song #410, and I've already noted well over 100
errors! Admittedly, though, some of what I point out is rather petty,
and some of Marsh's mistakes were not known to be wrong until years
after his book was published. Still, in the name of completeness, I
chose to include it all.
Dean F.
> # 900 - Earth Angel - he claims it was the first independant label R&B
> record to hit the pop charts. That's not even close, with things like
> "Sixty Minute Man" and even some 40s things.
He even includes "Sixty Minute Man" in his book! Not to mention at
least three other independent label R&B songs that made the pop charts
before "Earth Angel" Namely, "Crying in the Chapel," "Gee," and "Sh-
Boom."
That's one of numerous internal contradictions that I've picked up on
now that I'm looking at Marsh's book with a critical eye. I really
just want to ask him, "WTF, Dave?"
Dean F.
#25: WHAT'S GOING ON - Marvin Gaye
MARSH: 1967
CORRECTION: The album and single both came out (and peaked high on the
charts) in 1971.
***
#67: THE WIND - Nolan Strong & The Diablos
MARSH: Nolan Strong & The Diablos
CORRECTION: The original single shows the group's name simply as "The
Diablos," with no specific mention of lead singer Strong.
MARSH: "The Wind" ... is a prohpesy of Michael Jackson twenty years
before he came along.
CORRECTION: More like fifteen. "I Want You Back," his first hit with
the Jackson Five, charted in late 1969. And "The Wind" is from 1954.
***
#84: I WANT YOU BACK - The Jackson 5
MARSH: "I Want You Back" is the greatest debut single of any act since
the fifties....
CORRECTION: Except that it wasn't their debut single. Before the
Jackson 5 signed with Motown, they had come out with a pair of 45s on
the Pittsburgh-based Steeltown label.
***
#94: I WANT YOU - Bob Dylan
MARSH: It's a pop song, and a love song at that, as well as his second-
biggest hit of the sixties.
CORRECTION: Dylan's five biggest hits of the '60s are as follows:
1. "Like A Rolling Stone" (Billboard: #2)
2. "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35" (Billboard: #2)
3. "Lay Lady Lay" (Billboard: #7)
4. "Positively 4th Street" (Billboard: #7)
5. "I Want You" (Billboard: #20)
***
#109: FEVER - Little Willie John
MARSH: 1958
CORRECTION: Peggy Lee's remake of "Fever" charted in 1958, but Little
Willie John's original is from 1956.
***
#136: YOU LEFT THE WATER RUNNING - Maurice & Mac
MARSH: Maurice McAllister and McLaurin Green actually made two
appearances in "The Heart of Rock and Soul" because they were also the
Radiants, who made "Voice Your Choice" in 1962.
CORRECTION(S): In what I believe is a personal record, Marsh made
three factual errors in that one sentence. To wit:
1. It's Green McLauren, nor McLaurin Green.
2. Maurice and Mac were *in* the Radiants, but did not comprise them
as Marsh implies. They varied from being a trio to a quintet, but were
never a duo.
3. "Voice Your Choice" is from 1964, not 1962 - as Marsh very well
should have known as he included that song in his book (at #344) and
got the year right.
***
#156: LAYLA - Derek & The Dominoes
MARSH: Clocking in at 7:10, "Layla" is far too sprawling to shape up
as a "classic single" but in the early seventies, it was precisely
expansive records like "Layla," made by white rock stars with more
control over their work than any black artist could afford (or was
allowed to) imagine, that helped redefine the medium.
CORRECTION: In 1970, when their respective contracts with Motown came
up for renewal, both Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder demanded and
received complete autonomy over their music. And at Stax, Isaac Hayes
had creative control of "Hot Buttered Soul," an album that redefined
the genre. Those are just three examples of the many black artists who
had achieved artistic control over their work by the early '70s. Marsh
would have made a far more convincing argument had he posited the
above claim about black artists of the '60s.
***
#161: SEARCHIN' - The Coasters
MARSH: Carl Gardner reaches for--and finds--more grit than he's ever
previously displayed.
CORRECTION: The lead on "Searchin'" was not regular frontman Gardner
but baritone Billy Guy.
***
#184: HEARTS OF STONE - The Jewels
MARSH: ...both Memphis guitarist Bill Justis and John Fogerty, in his
guise as the Blue Ridge Rangers, later took it back to the Top 40.
CORRECTION: Bill Justis had one Top 40 hit, 1957's "Raunchy." His only
other chart single, "College Man," reached #42 in the spring of 1958.
***
#189: DEDICATED TO THE ONE I LOVE - The Shirelles
MARSH: At the time, female black harmony groups were all but
unknown... [O]nly the Chantels' "Maybe" had ever made much of a
commercial or creative impression.
CORRECTION: The Bobbettes' "Mr. Lee" was a #6 pop hit in 1957. As
"Maybe" topped out at #15, I'm guessing that "Mr. Lee" made the bigger
commercial impression.
***
#194: MY TRUE STORY - The Jive Five
MARSH: [Eugene Pitt's] first group, the Genies...
CORRECTION (of sorts): Though Pitt sang with the Genies, he never
actually recorded with them.
MARSH [The Genies] had a national R&B hit with "Who's That Knocking"
in 1959.
CORRECTION: "Who's That Knockin'" never made the Billboard R&B charts,
though it reached #71 on the Hot 100 and was a big hit in the
Northeast.
MARSH: Two of the other Genies went on to become Don and Juan ("What's
Your Name")...
CORRECTION: Contrary to popular belief, Roland "Don" Trone never sang
with the Genies, though Claude "Juan" Johnson did.
***
#216: LET HER DANCE - The Bobby Fuller Four
MARSH: Gives the year as 1966 and its chart peak as #9.
CORRECTION: The single is from 1965 and did not make the Billboard Hot
100. Marsh appears to have mistakenly given the year and chart data of
Fuller's signature hit, "I Fought The Law."
***
#218: ONLY YOU - The Platters
MARSH: ["Only You" made] the Platters the first black group of the R&B
era to hit the pop charts with a song that was neither a jump tune or
some kind of novelty.
CORRECTION: Marsh should have known this was untrue. After all, his
book includes two black vocal group ballads that both pre-dated "Only
You" and did well on the pop charts: "Crying in the Chapel" by the
Orioles and "Earth Angel" by the Penguins.
***
#227: 1999 - Prince
MARSH: "1999" opens with a slowed-down version of broadcast speech ...
[At the end, the] guitar rises up like a James Brown missile to smite
and demolish the rest of the music and a child's voice asks,
imploringly, "Mommy, why does everybody have a bomb?"
CORRECTION: Those parts of "1999" appeared only on the album, and were
cut from the single.
***
#230: STAGGER LEE - Lloyd Price
MARSH: Refers to Archibald's "Stack-A-Lee" as "a regional hit on
Imperial in 1950."
CORRECTION: It charted nationally, reaching #10 on the Billboard R&B
lists.
***
#262: HOLD WHAT YOU'VE GOT - Joe Tex
MARSH: Calls it "southern soul's first crossover hit."
CORRECTION: Jimmy Hughes' "Steal Away" was a #17 pop hit several
months before "Hold What You've Got" was even recorded.
***
#268: STARTING ALL OVER AGAIN - Mel & Tim
MARSH: References "the opening dialogue in which Mel Hardin explains
to his cousin, Tim McPherson, why he and Barbara couldn't make their
relationship work the first time through."
CORRECTION: That part was excised from the single mix and only appears
on the album.
***
#294: PSYCHOTIC REACTION - Count 5
MARSH: One of rock's few comparative obscurities that actually
surpasses its rep.
CORRECTION (of sorts): "Psychotic Reaction" was a #5 hit in its time,
has long been a staple of both Oldies and Classic Rock radio, and has
been included on numerous anthologies. How does all that make it a
comparative obscurity?
***
#298: WAR - Edwin Starr
MARSH: 1969
CORRECTION: The original "War," by the Temptations, was an album track
in 1969. But the Starr single was released in June 1970.
***
#300: THAT'S ALRIGHT MAMA - Elvis Presley
CORRECTION: The original single gave the title as simply "That's All
Right."
***
#304: BROTHER LOUIE - Stories
MARSH: Claims that Stories' vocalist Ian Lloyd had been a member of
the Left Banke ("Walk Away Renee").
CORRECTION: It was keyboardist Michael Brown, not Lloyd, who was in
the Left Banke.
***
#308: UNDER THE BOARDWALK - The Drifters
MARSH: Refers to 1956's "Ruby Baby" and 1958's "Drip Drop" as "the
Drifters' two best records in that period."
CORRECTION: So why does Marsh's book include 1957's "Fools Fall In
Love" (at #775) but neither of the above tracks?
***
#343: ANY DAY NOW - Chuck Jackson
MARSH: Jackson did most of his best work from 1962 to 1965, the
precise period that rock historians most often ignore (when they
aren't denying its very creative existence).
CORRECTION: The theory to which Marsh alludes is that rock 'n' roll
temporarily "died" between the 1959 death of Buddy Holly and the 1964
U.S. rise of the Beatles. I've yet to read a single rock historian who
ignores, or denies the very creative existence of, the music in 1964
and '65. If anything, conventional wisdom regards those as two of
rock's finest years.
MARSH: Jackson joined the Del-Vikings ("Come Go With Me") after
leaving the Navy, and left soon after their biggest hit to go solo.
CORRECTION: Jackson had not yet joined the group when they did "Come
Go With Me."
***
#378: YOU'RE A WONDERFUL ONE - Marvin Gaye
MARSH: Gaye was probably too headstrong to be the ideal Holland-Dozier-
Holland act, but from time to time, their teaming clicked with image-
defining records: ... "Can I Get A Witness" ... None more so than
"Wonderful One"...
CORRECTION (of sorts): And yet, Marsh ranked "Witness" at #342, thirty-
six positions higher than "Wonderful One."
***
#380: CRYING IN THE CHAPEL - The Orioles
MARSH: Did not make pop chart
CORRECTION: It reached #11 on the Billboard pop singles chart - a
damned impressive feat for an R&B record in 1953.
MARSH: This gentle, lovely spiritual ballad impressed enough teenagers
to kick off a long-running craze for vocal harmony quartets named
after birds.
CORRECTION: The "bird group" craze dates back several years before
this single. The Ravens first recorded in 1945, while the Orioles' own
"It's Too Soon To Know" was a huge crossover hit in 1948. Other bird
groups that pre-dated "Crying in the Chapel" include such R&B
chartmakers as the Swallows and the Cardinals.
***
#401: RAG DOLL - The Four Seasons
MARSH: It was the last Number One hit the Seasons ever had.
CORRECTION: "December 1963 (Oh, What A Night)" spent three weeks at #1
in March 1976 - almost twelve years after "Rag Doll" topped the
charts.
***
And more to come, I've no doubt.
50s
>
> MARSH: Refers to 1956's "Ruby Baby" and 1958's "Drip Drop" as "the
> Drifters' two best records in that period."
> CORRECTION: So why does Marsh's book include 1957's "Fools Fall In
> Love" (at #775) but neither of the above tracks?
LOL...I love this one.
He probably was just pulling these listings out of a hat.
Sharx35
"50s" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:48869c0d-ddb7-4555...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
YOU, Bruthie, are NOT the one to call ANYONE a pompous asshole. Then,
again, it takes one to know one.
>
Sharx35
"Dean F." <soule...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:854a0cbb-2aaf-4fe7...@s19g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
I suspect that Bruthie's butt is well-tanned from his multiple sessions at
Mistress Diane's.
Chris S.
My copy of the book is long gone, but I can find another copy (used)
for cheap. And I almost remember the 2001 thread about the book --- I
still had it then -- and I'd hate to see if I chimed in about the
material. I also read that thing cover to cover several times without
paying attention to the fact that many writers associated with Rolling
Stone are often a little loose with the facts.
I do know that there were some scarce regional singles mentioned in
the book (including the last one, which IIRC Marsh wasn't exactly sure
of some of the specifics). Has anybody attempted to collect all those
tunes on MP3? Now that would be a great playlist even if there were
several flaws in the sequence.
Dean F.
> I do know that there were some scarce regional singles mentioned in
> the book (including the last one, which IIRC Marsh wasn't exactly sure
> of some of the specifics). Has anybody attempted to collect all those
> tunes on MP3? Now that would be a great playlist even if there were
> several flaws in the sequence.
Nine years ago, I put together a 40-CD set of all 1001 songs, in the
order in which Marsh ranked them. I still have those discs and still
play them every once in a while. The book itself may be flawed, but
Marsh picked a lot of great music for it. (Admittedly, though, he also
picked some less than stellar music. "We Are The World?" Good Christ!)
Uni
Probably as well as you check sound quality on those CDs you buy.
Uni :-)
>
Roger Ford
<soule...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Here's a sneak preview for you:
>***
>#84: I WANT YOU BACK - The Jackson 5
>
>MARSH: "I Want You Back" is the greatest debut single of any act since
>the fifties....
>CORRECTION: Except that it wasn't their debut single. Before the
>Jackson 5 signed with Motown, they had come out with a pair of 45s on
>the Pittsburgh-based Steeltown label.
>
I remember the controversy over that supposed "third" Steeltown single
with Jackson involvement namely "Let Me Carry Your School Books"
credited to "The Ripples & Waves Plus Michael"---with the mysterious
"Michael" long rumoured to be Michael Jackson of course. I remember
selling quite a few copies of the single on that basis but sadly for
the fans who purchased them I believe the entire Jackson connection
with this record theory was quashed some years back
>#184: HEARTS OF STONE - The Jewels
>
>MARSH: ...both Memphis guitarist Bill Justis and John Fogerty, in his
>guise as the Blue Ridge Rangers, later took it back to the Top 40.
>CORRECTION: Bill Justis had one Top 40 hit, 1957's "Raunchy." His only
>other chart single, "College Man," reached #42 in the spring of 1958.
>
I suppose the other version of "Hearts Of Stone" he means is the 1961
#20 hit revival by Bill Black's Combo. At least he spelt "Memphis"
right :)
ROGER FORD
-----------------------
"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk).
Please delete same before responding.Thank you!
DCar...@aol.com
I still do not think that Mr. Marsh ever fauxed passed Fred
Wilhelms with the all time biggest musicological fuckup!!!
David Ruffin wrote "Statue of a Fool" in 1959!!!
Never let the truth get intheway of a compelling read, baby!!!!
Dennis C from Tennessee
Uni
Probably he recites from books for his radio show. He should get a job
as a commercial DJ, they read right off a computer screen!
Uni
>
Dean F.
point out as many as three errors! Damn.
50s
> At song #527, I made my 100th entry to the list. And some entries
> point out as many as three errors! Damn.
And you probably missed a few of the mistakes. Looks like he fucks
something up on about 20% of the songs.
Dean F.
> And you probably missed a few of the mistakes. Looks like he fucks
> something up on about 20% of the songs.
And again, a fair amount of what I found could have (and should have)
been spotted by Marsh's editor. If I did my job as ineptly as this
editor did his, I'd be applying for unemployment benefits. (Either
that or I could work at the so-called "radio station" that gave Uni a
show!)
Dean F.
far):
#547: WAY OVER THERE - The Miracles
MARSH: The third Miracles' single, "Bad Girl"...had substantial R&B
success and became the first Gordy production to make the national pop
charts.
CORRECTIONS:
1) "Bad Girl" was their fourth single, not their third.
2) It never made the Billboard R&B chart.
3) It entered the Billboard Hot 100 in October 1959 - seven months
*after* Berry Gordy's first release, Marv Johnson's "Come To Me,"
debuted on the same chart.
MARSH: Berry Gordy was nearly a decade older than Smokey Robinson...
CORRECTION: Gordy was born on November 28, 1929; Robinson on February
19, 1940. You do the math.
MARSH: In 1959, the biggest group in R&B was the new version of the
Drifters led by Ben E. King, and their principal stylistic innovation
was the use of strings in their first hit, "There Goes My Baby," a
trend reinforced by the success of the Skyliners' similarly arranged
"Since I Don't Have You."
CORRECTION: Except that the Skyliners' hit made the Billboard Hot 100
in February 1959 - four months *before* the Drifters track charted.
MARSH: "Way Over There" didn't make the 1959 charts...
CORRECTION: Possibly because it didn't come out until 1960.
50s
> Here's the entry in which I've found the most mistakes (at least, so
> far):
>
> #547: WAY OVER THERE - The Miracles
>
> MARSH: The third Miracles' single, "Bad Girl"...had substantial R&B
> success and became the first Gordy production to make the national pop
> charts.
>
> CORRECTIONS:
>
> 1) "Bad Girl" was their fourth single, not their third.
I think it was their third. The only two before it were the two on
End.
50s
# 871 - Tears On My Pillow.
MISTAKE - After Anthony Gourdine paid his dues in the Duponts (who
recorded one single, "Prove It Tonight," for the Royal Roost jazz
label in 1955)
CORRECTION - The Duponts recorded three singles with Anthony:
Winley 212 - You / Must Be Falling In Love - 1956
Royal Roost 627 - Prove It Tonight* / Somebody* - 1957
Savoy 1552 - You / Must Be Falling In Love - 1958
The Savoy record is newly recorded versions of the same two songs on
the Winley release.
CORRECTION - The Royal Roost record is from 1957, not 1955.
50s
MISTAKE - "You Cheated" by the Shields (where he stepped in as a
falsetto lead....)
CORRECTION- Belvin was not the lead, Frankie Ervin was. Belvin was the
first tenor.
# 671, 672, 673 - Heartbeats, Shep & Limelites
MISTAKE - None of the "Daddy's Home" followups scored on the charts.
(This is a whopper)
CORRECTION - No less than FIVE of the followups made the top 100 pop
charts:
Ready For Your Love
Three Steps From The Altar
Our Anniversary
What Did Daddy Do
Remember Baby
MISTAKE - By 1963 Shep and the limelites had broken up.
CORRECTION - The group was together and releasing singles through
1965, breaking up in 1966.
# 675 - Well All Right
MISTAKE - issued as the B side of the rinky-dink "Heartbeat" in May
1958, soon after the plane crash.
As Dean would say, "GOOD CHRIST!!!"
CORRECTION - This might be the worst mistake in the book, putting the
most famous rock and roll death of the fifties a full 9 months before
it actually occurred.
50s
# 849 - Sixty Minute Man
MISTAKE - it's seventeen weeks at # 1 on the Biilboard R&B chart!
CORRECTION - It was # 1 for 14 weeks, not 17 weeks.
# 854 - I Want A Love I Can See - Temptations
MISTAKE - Their second single....
LOL...afraid not, Dave.
CORRECTION - It's not even their second single on Gordy, it's their
third, but they also had two as the temptations on Miracle in 1961,
and several other under names (Distans, Pirates, etc...)
# 894 - Breathless
MISTAKE - Sam Phillips released it as his third single
CORRECTION - It was his 4th single.
Sharx35
"50s" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:aa311924-0791-4db6...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
He's probably STILL a lot more accurate that you in most areas of life.
50s
MISTAKE - The debut release on their own label
CORRECTION - That would be T -Neck 501 - Testify (Part 1) / Testify
(Part 2) - 1964
Dean F.
> Boy, this is a never ending job!!!
You're telling me....
Dean F.
this project. So I'm setting the book aside for a few days.
Number of list entries so far: 139. And many of them have more than
one mistake!
Sharx35
"Dean F." <soule...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2040bbf9-ba62-4f68...@v7g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
Your parents made, AT THE VERY LEAST, one mistake.
Dean F.
I'll undoubtedly hit 200 before the book's end.