1950 SINGLES BATTLE : SEMI FINALS!!
Roger Ford
THE 1950 BATTLE OF THE SINGLES!!!
A mere FOUR singles left alive!!
TWO of them by the same artist,no less!!
Whilst marking the remarkable achievement of Mr Hank Williams in
placing two records in this round its neccessary to remind voters
taking part that,following established convention in these Singles
Battles,no artist or act meets themselves in direct competition in any
of the rounds until it becomes ABSOLUTELY UNAVOIDABLE. That has not
yet happened.
Hence the Semi Final draw has been made according to this stipulation.
As usual,you may vote for all or as many matchups as you wish or you
can abstain in any matchup if you desire.
DEADLINE FOR VOTING - MIDNIGHT (EST) THURSDAY 24TH DECEMBER
(Which rather neatly times things so that the big Grand Final will
take place on Christmas Day itself! :)
PLEASE! Make allowance for time difference in this closing time in the
zone where you may happen to live and PLEASE DO NOT SUBMIT ANY VOTES
AFTER THIS TIME!
DOUBLE PLEASE!!! MAKE SURE YOUR VOTES ARE CORRECT BEFORE PRESSING
"SUBMIT". WRONGLY CAST VOTES CANNOT BE ALTERED,SORRY!
To vote or to register to vote please go to
http://MarcDashevsky.com/battle
Don't forget to log in using your personal log in ID (don't have
one?---no problem!---see the web site for details).Please follow the
instructions at the site,thanks!
When completed you are welcome to post your votes here (you can "cut &
paste" them in one go directly from the website after you have
submitted your votes)---a few added comments accompanying your votes
are particularly welcome since I think much of the fun of these
Singles Battles for many of us here is getting some discussion of the
records and artists involved
Results will be published here FRIDAY 25TH DECEMBER
The GRAND FINAL bout will be posted shortly afterwards to which the
winners here will advance
(In the event of any ties in this round the votes total from previous
post-preliminary rounds will be added thus breaking the tie and
creating a clear winner)
And now...........to the death!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
DEADLINE FOR VOTING - MIDNIGHT (EST) THURSDAY 24TH DECEMBER
To vote or to register to vote please go to
http://MarcDashevsky.com/battle
Thanks for your participation!
ROGER FORD
-----------------------
"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk).
Please delete same before responding.Thank you!
Roger Ford
Ford) wrote:
>It's that time folks!! SEMI FINALS time in the
>
>THE 1950 BATTLE OF THE SINGLES!!!
>
Here's my votes :-
>***** Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
> Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
The most famous (and most valuable!) smile of the current contest
might below to the Mona Lisa but no previous contest has ever smiled
so sweetly on country music which has performed amazingly to secure
three quarters of the records left in contention---including both of
the hugely high quality entries in this bout.
But...in any battle of the two Hanks for me there can only EVER be one
winner
> Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
>***** Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
In their own ways both of these records are wondrous items but when
Moaner Hank comes into direct conflict with Moaner Lisa I have to go
with the lady with the mystic smile----and the lady who's the subject
of what is indisputably my favorite pop record of the entire 1950's
decade
BobbyM
Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
***** Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
============================================================
No abstentions.
Musicman55
Although 3 of my own Personal Top 4 Hits have now been eliminated by
this Music Group, 3 of my Top 7 for the Year are still alive so
possibly I have actually fared better than several other Group
members.
These were the votes that I cast in the Semi-Finals of the 1950
Singles Battle.
Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
***** Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
This was fairly close as my second favorite Country Hit edges my third
favorite Country Hit.
Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
***** Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
This was my favorite Song remaining vs. the Song I like least here.
So Nat continues to earn my support.
============================================================
No abstentions.
Phil Zorn
50s
> It's that time folks!! SEMI FINALS time in the
>
> THE 1950 BATTLE OF THE SINGLES!!!
>
> Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
>
> Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
> Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
This is an absolute joke. Three white records and Nat's Uncle Tom
sellout ballad. The members of this group thought that they liked R&B
and rock and roll, but now we see that when it comes right down to it
their whiteness comes out.
Roger Ford
Er.....aren't two of those white records in the Top Four of your own
personal Favorites listing for 1950 and haven't you therefore voted
for them over almost everything else in the contest (and no doubt will
continue voting similarly here)
The majority of others here seem to have done likewise so 50% of your
beef here seems to be a tad hypocritical to say the least,no? :)
50s
> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:18:53 -0800 (PST), 50s <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 21, 3:17=A0am, maria...@bblueyonder.co.uk (Roger Ford) wrote:
> >> It's that time folks!! SEMI FINALS time in the
>
> >> THE 1950 BATTLE OF THE SINGLES!!!
>
> >> Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
> >> Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
>
> >> Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
> >> Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
>
> >This is an absolute joke. Three white records and Nat's Uncle Tom
> >sellout ballad. The members of this group thought that they liked R&B
> >and rock and roll, but now we see that when it comes right down to it
> >their whiteness comes out.
>
> Er.....aren't two of those white records in the Top Four of your own
> personal Favorites listing for 1950 and haven't you therefore voted
> for them over almost everything else in the contest (and no doubt will
> continue voting similarly here)
>
> The majority of others here seem to have done likewise so 50% of your
> beef here seems to be a tad hypocritical to say the least,no? :)
"The Fat Man" losing to some halfway decent country record shows what
this group as a whole thinks of early rock and roll. Since they don't
remember these records first hand they don't like them as much as they
like cornball shit like "Save The Last Dance For Me" by the Drifters.
The group prefers country (Hank Snow) and safe over produced black pop
(Mona Lisa, Save The Last Dance For Me) to the real thing (The Fat
Man).
Jim Colegrove
***** Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
***** Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
============================================================
No abstentions.
Jim Colegrove
www.lostcountry.com
Roger Ford
But since he has the #1 record on your list YOU presumably prefer
country (Hank Williams) to "the real thing" (The Fat Man) and are
therefore pretty much in the same boat as those you're decrying :)
Luckily there's at least one of us flying the flag for R&B here since
"The Fat Man" sits comfortably at #1 on MY personal 1950 Favorites
list with Percy Mayfield in second place. Rely on me!! :)
Mark Dintenfass
<cfd50e52-6da2-4198...@g26g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
50s <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
I'm not crazy about the results of the last round either, but half of
the final eight were the records you're accusing the group of not
liking. And as Roger pointed out, this is the first time we've had a
final four that is all pop and country. You're sounding a bit here like
the Bizarro version of Sharx.
>
>
--
--md
_________
Remove xx's from address to reply
Mark Dintenfass
<mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> It's that time folks!! SEMI FINALS time in the
>
> THE 1950 BATTLE OF THE SINGLES!!!
Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
***** Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
Snow at his best beats Williams at less than his best. I guess when it
comes right down to it, I don't really like that broken, crying yodel.
Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
***** Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
Was it Diane who said "Mona Lisa" was sublime? It certainly is.
50s
> ***** Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
>
> Was it Diane who said "Mona Lisa" was sub lime?
I have to agree.
"Mona Lisa" is certainly sub Lime.
I prefer "Babe, We're Gonna Love Tonight" by Lime to "Mona Lisa" by
anybody.
Steve Mc
Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
***** Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
============================================================
No abstentions.
--
Steve Mc
DNA to SBC to respond
Scarlotti
Good thing that only the r&b fans participate in these contests. :-D
Cherry
Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
***** Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
============================================================
No abstentions.
Sharx35
"Roger Ford" <mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4b2f2efb...@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>********* Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
>
> Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
> *******Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
Sharx35
"BobbyM" <massey...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hgncjc$111$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Good picks!
Sharx35
"50s" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:31fd06aa-5cc0-467d...@26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
FOAD, cumwad! FUCK you and your political correctness!!!!!! This is a HONKY
world!!!!
Sharx35
"Roger Ford" <mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4b2f863f...@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:18:53 -0800 (PST), 50s <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 21, 3:17=A0am, maria...@bblueyonder.co.uk (Roger Ford) wrote:
>>> It's that time folks!! SEMI FINALS time in the
>>>
>>> THE 1950 BATTLE OF THE SINGLES!!!
>>>
>>> Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
>>> Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
>>>
>>> Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
>>> Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
>>
>>
>>This is an absolute joke. Three white records and Nat's Uncle Tom
>>sellout ballad. The members of this group thought that they liked R&B
>>and rock and roll, but now we see that when it comes right down to it
>>their whiteness comes out.
>
> Er.....aren't two of those white records in the Top Four of your own
> personal Favorites listing for 1950 and haven't you therefore voted
> for them over almost everything else in the contest (and no doubt will
> continue voting similarly here)
>
> The majority of others here seem to have done likewise so 50% of your
> beef here seems to be a tad hypocritical to say the least,no? :)
>
> ROGER FORD
> -----------------------
>
Bruce, as usual, is being his usual, self-hating self. Hypocritical, to
boot.
Sharx35
"50s" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cfd50e52-6da2-4198...@g26g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Too fucking bad. Finally, commonsense triumphs.
>
>
>
Sharx35
"Jim Colegrove" <co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote in message
news:m53vi59j5e6evikcf...@4ax.com...
Shitty picks. You really ARE fucked in the head.
Sharx35
"Steve Mc" <steve...@dnaglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4b2f9493$0$29200$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
What fucked in the head choices.
Sharx35
"Cherry" <cherry...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:85976aba-b194-425e...@b32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Excellent!
DianeE
"Cherry" <cherry...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:85976aba-b194-425e...@b32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
> ***** Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
>
> Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
> ***** Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
>
I'm with you, Cherry.
DianeE
DianeE
---------------
If anyone came off as an uncle tom it's fats domino with that STUPID GRIN on
his face all the time. He never recorded a soulful record in his life.
Cole put more emotion into one line of "mona lisa" than Domino put into any
fucking record of his whole career.
DianeE
50s
> "50s" <Savo...@aol.com> wrote in message
Bullshit. Frank Sinatra sang with plenty of emotion, and you don't
like him at all.
Nat Cole was being called an Uncle Tom even in the 50s, by such people
as Thurgood Marshall. Fats has never been called an uncle tom. His
records were being arranged and produced by all old stuffy white guys
like Nelson Riddle, Gordon Jenkins and Ralph Carmicheal. Fats Domino's
records were being arranged and produced by Dave Bartholomew.
Singing with emotion is not by any means the most important factor in
making hip black music. It's all in the rhthyms and the makeup of the
bands. For most of fats career his records featued only a standup
bass, saxophones, trumpets, guitar, drums. Nat Cole was already
selling out with violins and faggy white female choruses in the late
1940s and early 1950s.
From Amazon on Nat Cole:
Jazz heavies outwardly resented his defection to pop stardom. Cole
faced both violent racist whites, who felt threatened by his mass
appeal, and hostile African Americans, who considered him a traitor--
Thurgood Marshall, then of the NAACP, publicly called him an Uncle
Tom, and stores pulled his records off the shelves in Harlem.
Nobody ever pulled Fats Domino's records off the shelves in Harlem.
You can think what you want, but history is on my side here. <Many
blacks at the time considered nat to be an Uncle Tom.
Scarlotti
Fats had some fine records. I've got 20 tracks by him in my
collection, including The Fat Man (which is one of his lesser works).
Nat, otoh, was one of the best loved artists of the 20th century.
I've got 262 tracks by him (and counting).
Honestly, Bruce, does it really matter if either artist (or both)
courted white audiences as well as black?
Is it sooo terrible that a white man (me) and a 1/4 black man (you)
can both enjoy their music?
Is music only about race to you? Seriously.
I can understand the negative reactions toward cover records here (I
don't agree with them, but at least I can understand where they're
coming from). But to trash a legendary musician for having had hit
records (which have become timeless standards, btw) on the mainstream
("white" in your world) charts is to pursue a reverse-racist line of
thought to the point of obsession.
Dude. Get help.
50s
My fuckin' ass, lesser works.
> Nat, otoh, was one of the best loved artists of the 20th century.
> I've got 262 tracks by him (and counting).
As if you owning tracks means anything, you own loads of tracks from
dogshit artists like Georgia Gibbs.
> Honestly, Bruce, does it really matter if either artist (or both)
> courted white audiences as well as black?
Ask Thurgood Marshall.
> Is it sooo terrible that a white man (me) and a 1/4 black man (you)
> can both enjoy their music?
>
> Is music only about race to you? Seriously.
>
> I can understand the negative reactions toward cover records here (I
> don't agree with them, but at least I can understand where they're
> coming from). But to trash a legendary musician for having had hit
> records (which have become timeless standards, btw) on the mainstream
> ("white" in your world) charts is to pursue a reverse-racist line of
> thought to the point of obsession.
Artists can sing what they want, and people can like what they want,
I'm just saying that many whites around here who think they they like
R&B and rock and roll best are fooling themselves, because when it
comes down to it, there whiteness will eventually come out. They will
prefer whitewashed black music like "Mona Lisa" to the real thing.
Thurgood Marshall was a highly respected supreme court justice, and he
publicly referred to Nat Cole as an Uncle Tom in the 50s.
Musicman55
Obviously in my opinion Bruce has every right to express his views
regarding how little he likes the Final 4 Singles selected by our
Group in the 1950 Singles Battle. I just thought it was somewhat
ironic that less than 24 hours before Bruce made this posting I had
found a Thread he created titled "1950 - My top 40 Options."
This thread was created on September 28, 2002 and here is the link for
anyone who would like to read the entire posting:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s/browse_thread/thread/70eae1b4d465fa25/c9853d0723846229?lnk=gst&q=%22roger+ford%22+%2B+%221950%22
This was the actual Top 4 that Mr. Grossberg himself chose in 2002.
"I finally got around to ranking my favorites from 1950. Just a top 40
this
time, any further than that and I'm just stretching it out to get to a
larger
number.
1 ¦ Moaning The Blues ¦ Hank Williams
2 ¦ Why Don't You Love Me ¦ Hank Williams
3 ¦ The Fat Man ¦ Fats Domino
4 ¦ Long Gone Lonesome Blues ¦ Hank Williams
Bruce Grossberg"
Clearly all of us have the right to change our minds or update our
lists, but are not 3 of Bruce's Top 4 choices also by White Artists
and is not only one of them a R & B Hit?
Phil Zorn
DianeE
Artists can sing what they want, and people can like what they want,
I'm just saying that many whites around here who think they they like
R&B and rock and roll best are fooling themselves, because when it
comes down to it, there whiteness will eventually come out. They will
prefer whitewashed black music like "Mona Lisa" to the real thing.
-------------
I don't even regard "Mona Lisa" as "black music." It's like Charley Pride
or Darius Rucker, the artist is black but the music isn't. I would have
voted against "Mona Lisa" if Muddy had made it to this round, but no such
luck.
-------------------
Thurgood Marshall was a highly respected supreme court justice, and he
publicly referred to Nat Cole as an Uncle Tom in the 50s.
------------
This had nothing to do with Cole's *music*, it had to do with where he
performed it. Marshall had no problem with Marian Anderson singing opera!
DianeE
F R
assessment of the final 4 with your ranking of the top 4 1950 hits that
you wrote in 2002?
Which part of you is 1/4 black? Surely not your feet and legs since you
hate dancing.
It's your problem that you so hate any black singer who sounded
"white", not anyone elses here.
Using Thurgood Marshall as a source who called Nat an Uncle Tom is a bit
ironic since Marshall also was called one.
From a 1993 interview on C_SPAN:
LAMB: Before we come to the end of the Brown vs. the Board of Education,
which I want to get to -- you quote Thurgood Marshall saying here, "I
see no reason to say Malcolm X is a great person, a great negro. And I
ask a simple question. 'What did he ever do? Name me one concrete thing
he ever did." Where did you get that?
DAVIS (Marshall's biographer, and son of John Davis who was an early
pioneeer for civil rights along with Marshall): That was his quote. I
got that from talking to several people in New York who had been close
to him. Now that quote, by the way, is a quote that he made as early as
his retirement. He was asked on the day of his retirement -- and this
was before the Malcolm X renaissance, so to speak. Early in his days in
Harlem, Thurgood Marshall was approached one night on the streetcorner
by a group of black Muslims. This was before Malcolm X had separated
himself ideologically, you know, from Elijah Muhammad. And then New York
Police Chief Joseph P. Kennedy was concerned for Marshall's safety,
because he had gotten into an argument with the black Muslims who had
called Thurgood an Uncle Tom, a white man's nigger, who had felt that
integration was not the solution.
Depends on whose ox is being gored methinks.
50s
> "50s" <Savo...@aol.com> wrote in message
And I don't have a problem with a ny artist doing any style of music,
but let's call it what it is. A sellout effort to cross over ane be
popular in the mainstream.
Singing those wimpy pop ballads was not what Nat really wanted to do,
but that was his path to mainstream acceptance, a TV show, better
venues, etc... so he chose it.
50s
> Hey Bruce, how do you explain the obvious contradiction of your
> assessment of the final 4 with your ranking of the top 4 1950 hits that
> you wrote in 2002?
That ranking is still the same, and you are obviously missing the
point here. Here's the full list, and you find "Mona Lisa" or "I'm
Movin' On" on it. Other than hank Williams, every artist is black.
MY TOP 50 RECORDINGS FROM 1950:
1 ¦ Moanin' The Blues ¦ Hank Williams
2 ¦ Why Don't You Love Me ¦ Hank Williams
3 ¦ The Fat Man ¦ Fats Domino
4 ¦ Long Gone Lonesome Blues ¦ Hank Williams
5 ¦ Jumpin' At The Dew Drop ¦ Ivory Joe Hunter
6 ¦ Cool Water ¦ Four Tunes
7 ¦ Nobody's Lonesome For Me ¦ Hank Williams
8 ¦ Love Don't Love Nobody ¦ Roy Brown
9 ¦ Rock Mr. Blues ¦ Wynonie Harris
10 ¦ Bon Ton Roula ¦ Clarence Garlow
11 ¦ Mardi Gras In New Orleans ¦ Prof. Longhair
12 ¦ Carnival Day ¦ Dave Bartholomew
13 ¦ Hey--Spo-De-O-Dee ¦ Wild Bill Moore
14 ¦ Information Blues ¦ Roy Milton
15 ¦ Detroit City Blues ¦ Fats Domino
16 ¦ Double Crossing Blues ¦ Little Esther & Robins
17 ¦ Shotgun Boogie ¦ Tennessee Ernie Ford
18 ¦ Bad Bad Whiskey ¦ Amos Milburn
19 ¦ Chicken Blues ¦ Dominoes
20 ¦ Do Something For Me ¦ Dominoes
21 ¦ Tee-Nah-Nah ¦ Smiley Lewis
22 ¦ Peas And Rice ¦ Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson
23 ¦ Let's Do It ¦ Sticks McGhee
24 ¦ Teardrops From My Eyes ¦ Ruth Brown
25 ¦ Safronia B ¦ Calvin Boze
26 ¦ Man's Brand Boogie ¦ Billy Wright
27 ¦ I Like My Baby's Pudding ¦ Wynonie Harris
28 ¦ Blue Light Boogie ¦ Louis Jordan
29 ¦ Oh Well ¦ Roy Byrd
30 ¦ Pink Champagne ¦ Joe Liggins
31 ¦ C.C. Baby ¦ Brownie McGhee
32 ¦ Cadillac Baby ¦ Roy Brown
33 ¦ Saturday Night Boogie Woogie Man ¦ Jimmy Liggins
34 ¦ Growing Old ¦ Smiley Lewis
35 ¦ Please Send Me Someone To Love ¦ Percy Mayfield
36 ¦ Every Night About This Time ¦ Fats Domino
37 ¦ I'm Through ¦ Robins
38 ¦ Good Morning Judge ¦ Wynonie Harris
39 ¦ Turkey Hop ¦ Robins
40 ¦ Deceivin' Blues ¦ Little Esther
41 ¦ What's Happening ¦ Paul Williams (Connie Allen)
42 ¦ Breaking Up The House ¦ Tiny Bradshaw
43 ¦ Hey La Bas Boogie ¦ Fats Domino
44 ¦ She Walks Right In ¦ Professor Longhair
45 ¦ Bald Head ¦ Roy Byrd
46 ¦ Dirty People ¦ Smiley Lewis
47 ¦ Rolling Stone ¦ Muddy Waters
48 ¦ My Baby's Coming Back ¦ Sticks McGhee
49 ¦ Mr. Blues Is Coming To Town ¦ Wynonie Harris
50 ¦ Little Red Rooster ¦ Griffin Brothers (Margie Day)
BUBBLING UNDER FROM 1950:
51 ¦ Ain't Gonna Do It ¦ Dave Bartholomew
52 ¦ W-I-N-E ¦ Hollywood Four Flames
53 ¦ There's No Use Begging ¦ Robins
54 ¦ Drank Up All The Wine Last Night ¦ Sticks McGhee
> Which part of you is 1/4 black? Surely not your feet and legs since you
> hate dancing.
What kind of sterotype is this? Blacks don't dance any more than
whites do.
> It's your problem that you so hate any black singer who sounded
> "white", not anyone elses here.
I don't hate them at all. I like Mathis and some others. I like Nat
King Cole, but those wimpy early 50s ballads (Mona Lisa, Too Young,
Unforgettable) are nowhere near the level that people like Fats
Domino, Wynonie Harris, Ruth Brown, the Clovers, Muddy Waters, etc...
were at in those years. No to me. But I understand why they are to
most of the rest of you, it's the same reason why you like the
Broadway stuff that you do, but don't like Howlin' Wolf and Muddy
Waters......it's your whiteness coming out.
> Using Thurgood Marshall as a source who called Nat an Uncle Tom is a bit
> ironic since Marshall also was called one.
I think most blacks who attained any kind of mainstream fame were
called an uncle tom by somebody at some point.
Roger Ford
>On Dec 22, 9:39=A0am, espon...@webtv.net (F R) wrote:
>> Hey Bruce, how do you explain the obvious contradiction of your
>> assessment of the final 4 with your ranking of the top 4 1950 hits that
>> you wrote in 2002?
>
>That ranking is still the same, and you are obviously missing the
>point here. Here's the full list, and you find "Mona Lisa" or "I'm
>Movin' On" on it. Other than hank Williams, every artist is black.
>
Tennessee Ernie Ford is black??
ROGER FORD
-----------------------
50s
> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:21:38 -0800 (PST), 50s <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 22, 9:39=A0am, espon...@webtv.net (F R) wrote:
> >> Hey Bruce, how do you explain the obvious contradiction of your
> >> assessment of the final 4 with your ranking of the top 4 1950 hits that
> >> you wrote in 2002?
>
> >That ranking is still the same, and you are obviously missing the
> >point here. Here's the full list, and you find "Mona Lisa" or "I'm
> >Movin' On" on it. Other than hank Williams, every artist is black.
>
> Tennessee Ernie Ford is black??
Yes. one of his 4 great grandparents on his father's side.
You can see it here:
Mike Holcombe
***** Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
***** Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
Oops again. -- Mike H.
F R
was called an Uncle Tom, as it relates to his singing.
Let's take Louis Armstrong, perhaps the MOST influential artist of the
20th century...certainly top 3 if not #1:
-------------------------------
In the heat of the Civil Rights Movement, Louis Armstrong was called an
Uncle Tom by blacks, referring to Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's
Cabin. African-Americans blamed Armstrong for not using his fame to
speak out against the unjust treatment of his race in the United States
(Brown 92). They also said he was holding his race back because he
didn't demand respect from whites and he smiled too much when he was in
public.
--------------------
Get it now?
F R
Singing those wimpy pop ballads was not what Nat really wanted to do,
but that was his path to mainstream acceptance, a TV show, better
venues, etc... so he chose it.
Since you were quick to send me the Big Maybelle bio and i thanked you
for that, can you also direct me to any place that agrees with your
contention that "wimpy" pop ballads were really not what Nat wanted to
do?
50s
Not everything is found on the internet. I've seen that fact discussed
a few times in TV specials about Cole's life. He was first and
foremost a jazz pianist and did not even like to sing, let alone sing
wimpy ballads, but after "For Sentimental Reasons" made him a much
bigger star he begrudgingly realized that he could make a lot more
money and achieve much more mainstream fame if he continued to sing
that schlock, so he did.
F R
Bruce,
James Brown, who of course sounded as black as any performer ever was
also accused of being an Uncle Tom.
Brown, who according to his biography, kept a list of white promoters
who ignored him, and spoke out for civil rights often, nonetheless could
not escape the label:
--------------------------------
Just a month later, Brown took a USO tour through Vietnam, where the war
was raging. Brown thought this move, in general, was not popular with
black leaders; some thought he was being an Uncle Tom. Brown told a
journalist, "No one who serves his president and entertains his
country's troops can be an Uncle Tom. Unless a man is willing to fight
for his country he has nothing else to fight for, and those men deserve
to know we are thinking of them back home, and supporting them."
----------------------------
Well said James, and proof that being called an "Uncle Tom" has nothing
to do with anything.
Nat "King" Cole did not sound any more or any less "white" when he was
with the trio than when he was a solo act. He sounded like Nat "King"
Cole and that was more than enough to the record buying public.
50s
>
> Nat "King" Cole did not sound any more or any less "white" when he was
> with the trio than when he was a solo act.
LOL....you're an idiot if you believe that.
Those pop ballads were bigger on the pop charts than they were on the
black charts for a reason. Big hit top ten pop chart records like
"Answer me My Love" and "A Blossom Fell" and "Darling Je Vous Aime
Beaucoup" did not make the black charts AT ALL, because they were too
white sounding for the black community.
F R
Uncle Tom had nothing, zero, nada to do with his success or your disgust
of his ballads.
You might comment on the fact that Thurgood Marshall, Louis Armstrong
and James Brown were also called Uncle Toms.
But you won't comment on it because it belies the dumb point you tried
to make.
As far as you having "heard" others mention Cole as not liking to sing
ballads has no validity just as your made up claim that on a website you
still haven't sent me, that 2/3 of the critics thought Spacey was lousy
singing Darin songs.
You think that. Fine. But where is the website that shows 2/3 of critics
agree with you.
You won't send it because it doesn't exist.
50s
> Speaking of idiots, your gratuitous mention that Cole was considered an
> Uncle Tom had nothing, zero, nada to do with his success or your disgust
> of his ballads.
>
> You might comment on the fact that Thurgood Marshall, Louis Armstrong
> and James Brown were also called Uncle Toms.
>
> But you won't comment on it because it belies the dumb point you tried
> to make.
Try to keep up here. I ALREADY commented on that and said that almost
any black person who achieves mainsteam success will be called an
uncle tom at some point.
> As far as you having "heard" others mention Cole as not liking to sing
> ballads has no validity just as your made up claim that on a website you
> still haven't sent me, that 2/3 of the critics thought Spacey was lousy
> singing Darin songs.
>
> You think that. Fine. But where is the website that shows 2/3 of critics
> agree with you.
>
> You won't send it because it doesn't exist.
Neither fact was made up. Like many others around here, I'm tired of
doing reasearch for some WEB-TV asshole who doesn't even know how to
use a real computer.
xpen...@gmail.com
>> You won't send it because it doesn't exist.
>
>Neither fact was made up. Like many others around here, I'm tired of
>doing reasearch for some WEB-TV asshole who doesn't even know how to
>use a real computer.
aol idiot calls web-tv user an asshole LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!
Bruce, when are you going to get another web site up? One with real
content not just scans.
F R
any black person who achieves mainsteam success will be called an uncle
tom at some point.
Then why did you deem it important to mention that Nat was accused of
it. What was your point?
--------------------------
Neither fact was made up. Like many others around here, I'm tired of
doing reasearch for some WEB-TV asshole who doesn't even know how to use
a real computer.
"Like many others"? Who else are you speaking for?
As usual, when you are losing an argument, you resort to personal
attacks and name calling. You were quick enough to send me the Big
Maybellle article, so why not show me where you read 2/3 of critics
disliking Spacey's singing as Darin.
He was criticized for his ego and the style of how he made the film, but
even those who didn't like the film at all, begrudgingly (perhaps)
praised him for his singing.
Prove me wrong and just send me the site.
50s
> Try to keep up here. I ALREADY commented on that and said that almost
> any black person who achieves mainsteam success will be called an uncle
> tom at some point.
> ----------------------
> Then why did you deem it important to mention that Nat was accused of
> it. What was your point?
Just to piss you off.
> --------------------------
> Neither fact was made up. Like many others around here, I'm tired of
> doing reasearch for some WEB-TV asshole who doesn't even know how to use
> a real computer.
> ------------------------
> "Like many others"? Who else are you speaking for?
> As usual, when you are losing an argument, you resort to personal
> attacks and name calling. You were quick enough to send me the Big
> Maybellle article, so why not show me where you read 2/3 of critics
> disliking Spacey's singing as Darin.
>
> He was criticized for his ego and the style of how he made the film, but
> even those who didn't like the film at all, begrudgingly (perhaps)
> praised him for his singing.
>
> Prove me wrong and just send me the site.
Do your own research.
F R
it. What was your point?
Just to piss you off.
Sorry (not really) to tell you this Bruce, but you bought up the "Uncle
Tom" accusation about Nat long before I entered this thread, a day
before in fact.
You attacked the whole group who voted.
see below:
This is an absolute joke. Three white records and Nat's Uncle Tom
sellout ballad. The members of this group thought that they liked R&B
and rock and roll, but now we see that when it comes right down to it
their whiteness comes out.
------------------------------
And ROFL to your reference to the voters "whiteness" coming out. Every
other year, black artists dominated. Did the voters all of a sudden have
a racist relapse or something when it came to 1950?
It is you who is making this racial, not them.
xpen...@gmail.com
>Honestly, Bruce, does it really matter if either artist (or both)
>courted white audiences as well as black?
>
>Is it sooo terrible that a white man (me) and a 1/4 black man (you)
>can both enjoy their music?
>
seen a whiter person than the guy in this photo?
http://history-of-rock.com/bgrb.jpg No matter how much one likes and
plays "black music" doesn't make one Black.
Dean F.
link to my own personal Top 100 of 1950 and let folks judge for
themselves:
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/goldwax317/1950__my_personal_top_100
F R
to my own personal Top 100 of 1950 and let folks judge for themselves:
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/goldwax317/1950__my_personal_top_100
An excellent idea Dean. The presentation of your lists have always been
a favorite of mine.
Happy Holidays to all and a HEALTHY new year, sincerely, even to Bruce.
Frank
Scarlotti
Funny how Daniel Mark Epstein neglected to mention this in his Nat
King Cole bio.
As to abandoning jazz for pop, Cole told Time Magazine in 1951:
"You've got to change with the public's taste. I'm an interpreter of
stories. When I perform it's like I'm just sitting down at my piano
and telling fairy stories."
The only comment Nat ever made about his musical preferences was when
he sang "Mr. Cole won't rock and roll" (from his album at the
Sands).
Scarlotti
> >Honestly, Bruce, does it really matter if either artist (or both)
> >courted white audiences as well as black?
>
> >Is it sooo terrible that a white man (me) and a 1/4 black man (you)
> >can both enjoy their music?
>
> Where do people come up with this 1/4 Black nonsense? Have you ever
> plays "black music" doesn't make one Black.
Aw, he looks at least as black as Tennessee Ernie Ford.
Mark Dintenfass
<713a4644-7742-4a14...@u20g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
Scarlotti <Scar...@searchhawkmail.com> wrote:
> The only comment Nat ever made about his musical preferences was when
> he sang "Mr. Cole won't rock and roll" (from his album at the
> Sands).
During the course of which he does some rock'n'roll.
--
--md
_________
Remove xx's from address to reply
Sharx35
"50s" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2d3db024-ab47-41d7...@h2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
Any artist with brains will do what THE FANS want. Period. They are
ENTERTAINERS, first and foremost. To ENTERTAIN, one gives the listeners what
THEY want, not necessarily what THE ENTERTAINER wants.
Sharx35
"50s" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1e9db046-b123-4ad0...@v13g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
SO, who gives a fuck?
>
Sharx35
"Dean F." <soule...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb256049-21d4-421f...@v7g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
90% of it is absolute GARBAGE.
Sharx35
"F R" <espo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19436-4B3...@storefull-3112.bay.webtv.net...
Here's hoping that BOTH Dean and Bruthie see some mental health
professionals AND get their hearing aides adjusted, too.
Roger Ford
<mdint...@xxnew.rr.com> wrote:
>In article <4b2f2efb...@text.news.virginmedia.com>, Roger Ford
><mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> It's that time folks!! SEMI FINALS time in the
>>
>> THE 1950 BATTLE OF THE SINGLES!!!
>
>Hank Williams - Long Gone Lonesome Blues - M-G-M 10645
>***** Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
>
>Snow at his best beats Williams at less than his best. I guess when it
>comes right down to it, I don't really like that broken, crying yodel.
>
I can't agree that the Snow (which I like very much) is better than
Hank's best of the year. No way!
> Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
>***** Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
>
>Was it Diane who said "Mona Lisa" was sublime? It certainly is.
>
We disagreed above but we could not agree more here :)
BTW I think the outcome of the contest might still suprise us all
since it is yet capable of delivering a Grand Final winning pop record
for the first time ever----or a Grand Final winning country record
that is not by Hank Williams.
Plus it still holds the intriguing possibility of a Hank Williams vs.
Hank Williams Final
Sharx35
"Roger Ford" <mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4b320f2a...@text.news.virginmedia.com...
If anything beats Mona Lisa, this contest, while somewhat honest, is totally
NOT representative of sane reality. It only represents the Idiot Eleven and
their slavish devotion to attacking honky music.
Sid
***** Hank Snow - I'm Movin' On - RCA 48-0328
Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues - M-G-M 10832
***** Nat "King" Cole - Mona Lisa - Capitol 1010
============================================================
Sharx35
"Sid" <Razor...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7a3d203d-e08c-4a69...@e4g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Excellent choices! Merry Christmas, Sid.
Roger Ford
<mdint...@xxnew.rr.com> wrote:
>In article
><713a4644-7742-4a14...@u20g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
>Scarlotti <Scar...@searchhawkmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The only comment Nat ever made about his musical preferences was when
>> he sang "Mr. Cole won't rock and roll" (from his album at the
>> Sands).
>
>During the course of which he does some rock'n'roll.
>
In their advertising Capitol tried to promote Cole as a rock 'n' roll
singer on a few of his releases---maybe most incongrously on "Take A
Fool's Advice" in 1961