Song of the Week - Wendell Gee
kfj
After the band signed to IRS, Peter was no richer than he had been before.
He and Mike walked up to a pizza place where one of their girlfriends worked
because they knew they could get free food, after signing the contract. Even
with the follow-up success of Reckoning, Peter was living with Jefferson in
an apt, and then, between tours, lived in his brother Kenny's foyer - just a
mattress to sleep on when the band was home. But being home was all too
rare. With their signing to a real label, the band just hit the road, over
and over again, taking short breaks to write new songs or record a new
album - but for the first five years of the band, it was all about touring.
Peter and Bill were the most frequent drivers until the band gained enough
money to hire someone. Peter once remarked that he didn't remember eating in
the early eighties - he remembered the drinking (we all remember the
drinking, Peter!) but remained convinced that he only ate standing at deli
trays. The typical set up on the road was for Peter and Mike to share a
room - which Peter has likened to some kind of torture (I'd do it, Pete,
just let me know, okay?) - and the oft-repeated story about the only way to
have some privacy or time alone was to grab a six pack and drink it in the
parking lot. If it sounds miserable, it may have been, but the band only
noticed later for the most part.
Peter, the garrulous, ever quotable one, may not have been the picture that
ran with every article, but it was always his words. A compilation of every
interview written about R.E.M. from those years would always feature a rough
and ready Peter moment - as one later interview noted, the "social director"
of the band. Peter felt he was the biggest asshole in the band - the most
impatient and the one to yell at people to get everything moving. And for
all Peter's musical inexperience (flashback: count the boots of demos where
we can hear mike calling out the chords for Peter!), his contributions
conceptually and with specific written bits were enormous. Peter knew what
he didn't want, and what he liked: "I felt I was kind of a purist. Everyone
else wanted to be the Clash and coat everything with distortion and even
though I loved that sound, I didn't want to fall into the trap of getting a
Marshall, a Les Paul, and blasting three chords. I loved the Ramones, but I
didn't want to be one." Peter lived like a nomad, drank way too much, and
according to his offhand comments many years later, may or may not have been
under the influence of some less legal influences during this time period -
but he was having the time of his life. He offered to speak students at the
local high school during the making of Reckoning - he felt privileged to be
a musician. To be doing something he wanted to be doing, with focus and
attention.
The exhaustion and somewhat poverty caught up with the band with the making
of Fables. For once, I'll skip the requisite stories - but simply note that
the band chose a producer that Peter loved, went to London, then told the
record company who were none too pleased. Feverishly homesick, sick of each
other, full of bile and drink . . . they were dancing around each other when
not snarling. Stipe noted, in reference to this song and Buck: "When I got
into the studio he was a wreck. I was really afraid to go in because I knew
he didn't like the song." Indeed, Peter has said repeatedly, despite some
softening, that he has always hated Wendell Gee, no matter what his added
banjo part did for the song. He thought it was too sappy. Of course, we all
know the oft-repeated story about the town where everything was named after
a Gee, right? Right. :) It should be noted that Peter is completely wrong
and Wendell Gee is a great fucking song. What do you think?
-k
That's when Wendell Gee takes a tug
Upon the string that held the line of trees
Behind the house he lived in
He was reared to give respect
But somewhere down the line he chose
To whistle as the wind blows
Whistle as the wind blows, with me
He had a dream one night
That the tree had lost its middle
So he built a trunk of chicken wire
To try to hold it up
But the wire, the wire turned to lizard skin
And when he climbed inside
There wasn't even time to say
Goodbye to Wendell Gee
So whistle as the wind blows
Whistle as the wind blows, with me
If the wind were colors
And if the air could speak
Then whistle as the wind blows
Whistle as the wind blows
--
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Santa have hands? - Peter Buck
karenfj at hotmail dot com is the correct address.
Chris
inside' frustrated me for years until I found it out on the net. (it seems so
obvious now!). PB has recently said he was 'wrong' about the song because it is
of course great. Lovely way to end the album.
And another thing! The lyrics on the net always state 'Whistle as the wind
blows...' whereas Michael clearly sings ' Listen as the wind blows with me' in
the line before 'If the wind were colours'. I've always wanted to point this
out before but it seemed too pedantic!
Chris.
kfj
news:396A0F46...@zootallures.freeserve.co.uk...
> Cool song. The most immediate, IMO, on fables. The line 'and when he
climbed
> inside' frustrated me for years until I found it out on the net. (it seems
so
> obvious now!). PB has recently said he was 'wrong' about the song because
it is
> of course great. Lovely way to end the album.
he's never said it's "great" unless you have an interview I don't. He's said
he likes it, without much conviction, and said all his friends like it, and
maybe he should listen again, but in the most recent interview I have where
he discusses it (1999 Uncut) he never clearly states that he likes that
much.
-k
Chris
was wrong to think the song was no good, and I am the one suggesting that it is
'great'. :)
Garry Sykes
much attention, until I read the book REM: Inside/Out. There it was described
as a beautiful ballad that "broke a few hearts", so I gave it another listen,
and now it's one of my favourite REM songs, and even beats Find The River as my
favourite album closer. I just love the lyrics, they have that direct, yet
totally honest and heartfelt beauty to them and the harmonies are amazing,
especially when Mike goes really high on the last chorus. Definetely deserving
of song of the week, if not my favourite song of the 80s full stop :0)
Garry
"A song is a beautiful lie"
Visit Wonderland: http://members.aol.com/grungebunny13/index.html
Andrew Palka
>and Wendell Gee is a great fucking song. What do you think?
So noted and yes...It is a great fucking song......:-)
Another example of a simple "folkish" guitar progression that became magical
when mixed with Michaels's charmingly enigmatic lyrics.
As compelling as the guitar passage is in this song, I think it is the banjo
interlude inserted over the guitar melody that makes this song so special.
I've often wondered if this is indeed a traditional 5-string banjo Peter is
playing or the 6 string variety that is tuned exactly like a guitar. As
Peter seems to be picking one of his trademark arpeggios here so I suspect
it is the latter. Nothing wrong with that, as Neil Young commonly uses the
same type of instrument in his folk-styled songs. Does anyone out there
play banjo who can confirm which of the two it is?
When I play this song, I have a reoccurring image in my mind's eye of seeing
a group of battle weary Southern Civil War soldiers sitting around a
campfire playing this same melody on guitar and banjo sans lyrics, of
course. To me, there is a powerful sense of steadfast perseverance mixed
with in with the aching feeling of melancholy. Since there has been much
discussion on Michael's listening to traditional Southern folk songs for
source inspiration, I wonder if the rest of the band had access to some of
the same material. At any rate, it's a fine song, and an excellent choice.
Thanks for giving me an excuse to play Reconstructions in its entirety over
dinner tonight.
Andrew
**********************************************************
"There wasn't even time to say goodbye to Wendell Gee".......
kfj <kar...@dontlikebelong.comma> wrote in message
news:#R3n02p6$GA.293@cpmsnbbsa09...
helen looker
kfj <kar...@dontlikebelong.comma> wrote
<snip>
> It should be noted that Peter is completely wrong
> and Wendell Gee is a great fucking song. What do you think?
Well I will join in the chorus of aggreement here. I think this is a great
song. When I first bought Fables this was the one that really connected with
me and it remains one of my favourites. Again it is another song which just
aches with a sense of yearning. I was never clear as to what happened to
poor old Wendell but there was no doubt in my mind that it was tragic. I
also agree that the banjo does lift the song instrumentally though as is
often the case with me it was the harmonies that first caught my attention.
One anecdote you didn't include in your intro that always amused me was
Michael
recounting how he was scared to go in the studio when they were recording
this song as he knew Peter hated it so much but then being amazed at the
banjo part Peter added to it.
It's a pity that they haven't played it live in so long but I suspect that
even with Peter's admission that it isn't a bad song he is not going to
start playing it again.
So is any one going to stand up and agree with Peter's initial assessment of
the song?
--
Helen
'I've had sex, and lots of it, and enjoyed every minute of it, too." Mike
Mills 1996
Arkasha
news:OUDR6Xo6$GA.401@cpmsnbbsa08...
<snip whole lot>
> and Wendell Gee is a great fucking song. What do you think?
Wendell Gee is one of those few song, where i still have a very vivid memory
of when i heard it for the first time.
I was just getting into REM, and i had checked fables out of the library and
copied it to tape. I was listening to the tape on my walkman while working
out on a hometrainer. The song seemed a little weird and out of place to me
but incredible beautiful. I kept on rewinding it and just cycling in a
trance so I could keep on listening.
Arkasha
> -k
>
>
>
> That's when Wendell Gee takes a tug
> Upon the string that held the line of trees
> Behind the house he lived in
> He was reared to give respect
> But somewhere down the line he chose
> To whistle as the wind blows
> Whistle as the wind blows, with me
>
> He had a dream one night
> That the tree had lost its middle
> So he built a trunk of chicken wire
> To try to hold it up
> But the wire, the wire turned to lizard skin
> And when he climbed inside
> There wasn't even time to say
Davis
Andrew Palka
>and Wendell Gee is a great fucking song. What do you think?
So noted and yes...It is a great fucking song......:-)
Another example of a simple "folkish" guitar progression that became magical
when mixed with Michaels's charmingly enigmatic lyrics.
As compelling as the guitar passage is in this song, I think it is the banjo
interlude inserted over the guitar melody that makes this song so special.
I've often wondered if this is indeed a traditional 5-string banjo Peter is
playing or the 6 string variety that is tuned exactly like a guitar. As
Peter seems to be picking one of his trademark arpeggios here so I suspect
it is the latter. Nothing wrong with that, as Neil Young commonly uses the
same type of instrument in his folk-styled songs. Does anyone out there
play banjo who can confirm which of the two it is?
When I play this song, I have a reoccurring image in my mind's eye of seeing
a group of battle weary Southern Civil War soldiers sitting around a
campfire playing this same melody on guitar, fiddle, and banjo sans lyrics,
M1ahearn
of
the song? <<
Not me! I'd just like to add that one of the things I really like about
this song is the transition from "Good Advices" to "Wendell Gee". I like both
songs, and I think they complement each other sonicly very well.
MFA
»Q«
"helen looker" <hlo...@email.msn.com> wrote in message news:#C8Q3ou6$GA.288@cpmsnbbsa09...
>
> It's a pity that they haven't played it live in so long but I suspect that
> even with Peter's admission that it isn't a bad song he is not going to
> start playing it again.
>
In Atlanta (31 August 1999), there was a guy off to my left at the front who was singing very loud and *very* flat. He knew at least some version of the words to every song. He was lobbying hard for 'Wendell Gee,' and I kept thinking that I couldn't bear to hear him sing it that way. I was relieved when Mr. Mills finally heard him and smiled and shook his head 'no.' The smile was a hard to read, but it looked a little wistful to me, as though he'd really like to play the song. (Btw, I found a way to partially cover my left ear so that I couldn't hear the singing that was driving me nuts, without losing any sound quality from the stage.)
»Q«
--
When a subject becomes totally obsolete we make it a required course.
- P. Drucker
helen looker
»Q« <Dodgeball...@usa.net> wrote
In Atlanta (31 August 1999), there was a guy off to my left at the front who
was singing very loud and *very* flat. He knew at least some version of the
words to every song. He was lobbying hard for 'Wendell Gee,' and I kept
thinking that I couldn't bear to hear him sing it that way. I was relieved
when Mr. Mills finally heard him and smiled and shook his head 'no.' The
smile was a hard to read, but it looked a little wistful to me, as though
he'd really like to play the song. (Btw, I found a way to partially cover
my left ear so that I couldn't hear the singing that was driving me nuts,
without losing any sound quality from the stage.)
I remember that! I mean I didn't hear the guy singing off key, thankfully,
but I do remember someone calling out for Wendell Gee until Mike put him
straight that it wouldn't be happening. Aah happy memories.
Tad Schirz
we would expect to see them written. (Michael is clearly aware that
the natural 4/4 beat allows for 'line breaks' you might not see on
paper -- line breaks are a standard tool of poetry that force your
attention on a final word or a few stand-alone words, suggesting one
should look (or listen) to the previous or following lines for
additional meanings. Technically this is a step in 'scansion', an
inexact science anyway, and since ordinary poetics involves the written
word on the page, there is no right or wrong here. But for me, In this
context, the meaning of song comes into clearer focus. Thanks.)
>
> That's when Wendell Gee
> takes a tug upon
> the string
> that held the line of trees
Interesting choice of the present tense used in a past event --
ordinarily a flashback. However, it is not a personal memory. It is a
tale, a reconstruction based on (presumably) some memory, but mostly of
events heard second-hand. The flashback evokes the cinematic 'in the
now' feel, a feel of ilinear immediacy. When contrasted with the later
lines, we realize it is an elegy, so that the contrast of the past
occuring in the present evokes a greater emotion on the listener.
Note how the line break emphasizes the image of the string; the visual
I get is of the kind of tautness it would take to hold the trees in the
wind and storms, with the subtle allusion to 'being straight.'
> Behind the house he lived in
> He was reared to give respect
> But somewhere down the line
> he chose
There is a double-meaning on 'down the line': both 'in his future' and
in his personal relationship with the tree/line imagery.
> To whistle as the wind
> blows
The previous stanza (give respect...but...he chose) suggests actions
contrary to his upbringing, and I think they remain purposely
ambiguous, with each of us drawing our own conclusions on the
possibilities (i.e., the type and severity of his actions, whether
someone else was involved). In any case, there seems to be a sense of
him taking his own direction, and accepting the consequences (although
it may involve, say, shame).
I consider this song to contain that rare 'breakthrough' of poetry that
is evoked through the harmony of voice, image, double-meaning and
feeling (there is no 'right or wrong', of course, in art, and as
Michael says, what you bring to it is a big part of it). Nonetheless,
I hesitate to state 'the breakthrough' explicitly, because I believe in
the power that art can contribute to life, and we should all get a
chance to make it on our own.
Suffice it so say there are many ways one might 'whistle.' Please,
Ron, Chris, et al -- let me know if you want to discuss further. I
would prefer we discuss prior to posting.
> Whistle as the wind
> blows, with me
The narrator draws us in with him. I presume that the whistle we are
asked to make by the narrator is a typical whistle, and a happy one.
We are being asked to join and participate, with the hint of
recognition for Wendell Gee, which we eventually see is actually also
remembrance.
> He had a dream one night
> That the tree had lost its middle so
> he built a trunk of chicken wire
> To try to hold it up
Much has already been said on the group previously about this; the
theme is of something of outer substance that is rotting away inside
(read: metaphor). Chicken wire is the wire you see around a chicken
coup, often used in orchards, tree nursuries, etc. since it wraps
easily.
> But the wire, the wire turned
> to lizard skin and when he
> climbed inside
The dream imagery suggests, by climbing in the rotted out interior, a
shift from the theme of nurture and healing to resigned defeat. I
can't help but notice that both chicken wire and lizard skin have a
similar 'scaly' pattern. Interesting.
> There wasn't even time
> to say
> Goodbye to Wendell Gee
Here we get a glimpse that he is not just gone, but gone suddenly,
without warning. Tie it together with Wendell's actions and feelings
in the earlier lines and Wendell's action seems clear: suicide.
> So whistle as the wind
> blows
> Whistle as the wind
> blows, with me
Again, we are asked to join in remembrance, the repetitions of the
soft 'wh' and 'i' sounds reflect the feeling.
> If the wind were colors
> And if the air could speak
To get any 'meaning' from this, we need to know what type of syntax it
really is.
A phrase (or assertion, etc.) that begins with a premise implied to be
false is called nonfactual. Psychology research shows that language
can actually shape thought. For example, Chinese people are less
likely than Americans to understand counterfactual phrasing (see study
by Bloom, 1981). I believe Michael is aware of this and chose this
phrasing here to underscore the theme: people wanted Wendell to be
something that he wasn't -- and he was convinced that he was something
he shouldn't be -- to the degree that he killed himself.
> Then whistle as the wind blows
> Whistle as the wind blows
In nature, the wind is fated; in us, it is not.
--Tad.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ron Henry
I agree that this is a wonderful song; I am glad that Chris and I recorded a
cover version of it (even though it started out, I think, as a somewhat
sarcastic gesture to record a relatively easy-to-play tune that the band
themselves reputedly refuses to play live).
It's a dream. A dream about dying, and about transcending. (I think that a lot
of Stipe's death-lyrics end up being lyrics of transcendance -- which is no
great innovation in American literature or music, of course, but is still
interesting to observe.)
>That's when Wendell Gee takes a tug
>Upon the string that held the line of trees
>Behind the house he lived in
I hear this as describing the moment of his death. Perhaps he falls while out
in the back yard, stricken with a heart attack or stroke? In either case, he
tugs the border of the yard -- the border of the known, the civilized, the
lived-in -- as it happens. The tug is reminiscent of two things, a fish that
has been caught (as he has perhaps been caught by death) or the tugs and
vibrations you get from a can-and-string telephone. Message from the Great
Beyond to Wendell Gee!
>He was reared to give respect
He's a nice guy, and he's going to heaven.
>But somewhere down the line he chose
>To whistle as the wind blows
>Whistle as the wind blows, with me
The "but" troubles me. What's wrong with whistling with the wind? (Though,
actually, I recall that my grandmother used to tell us that whistling was
impolite, so maybe it's something like that.)
>He had a dream one night
>That the tree had lost its middle
Preminitions -- ordinary life is hollow, empty.
>So he built a trunk of chicken wire
>To try to hold it up
He tries to make up for the absence with the materials of real life, but it
doesn't work.
>But the wire, the wire turned to lizard skin
>And when he climbed inside
Lizard! (Nice to follow Hope, and all its talk of redemption through reptile
DNA and alligators, with Wendell Gee, which finds redemption in a dream about
climbing inside a reinforced tree that has turned to lizard skin.) I am
thinking about how the Green tour posters had comments about atavism on them
(well, at least the poster I did, did).
Atavism is the reappearance of primitive characteristics, and it's one of
those ideas that threads through Stipe's body of lyrics. Clearly he sees the
possibility of redemption or transcendence through atavism. (Being an art
major, he may also have connected the notion of biological atavism with
primitivism in art, as well.)
>If the wind were colors
>And if the air could speak
Synaesthesia and personificaion. Nice, nice.
Ron
--
Ron Henry ronh...@clarityconnect.com
http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/
feathersiron
someone mentioned suicide. "Takes a tug upon the string" is
making me think he hanged himself. I'm also getting the feeling
(especially because the song starts with the phrase "that's
when"...indicating that we have yet to hear the beginning of the
story) that this is a way of telling the end of the story, and
maybe everything that is described after is meant to tell of the
events leading up to (or reasons for) this suicide.
Maybe this is a crackpot idea, or maybe it's all been said
before...hey, I applaud you guys just for being able to tell
what words stipe is actually saying...I listened to alot of
these songs for 7 years and never even came close to deciphering
lyrics before I read them on the internet (and a big thank you
to those who had a hand in that) - blah, blah, blah...shutting
up now.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
helen looker
feathersiron <feathersir...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote
> someone mentioned suicide. "Takes a tug upon the string" is
> making me think he hanged himself.
This occurred to me this morning. Having read Ron's account and then
pondering upon the combination of 'string' and trees it suddenly hit me that
this really should suggest hanging. I'm glad to see I'm not alone in this
thought.
Tad Schirz
feathersiron <feathersir...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Okay guys, I'm kinda new at this but here goes.
>
> making me think he hanged himself.
That's precisely it. He's testing the noose. It's a sudden,
blistering image.
>I'm also getting the feeling that this is a way of telling the end of
> the story, and maybe everything that is described after is meant to
> tell of the
> events leading up to (or reasons for) this suicide.
I agree. It's very clear. 'That's when' is suggestive of 'in the
now', while 'that *held* the line of trees' clearly states the rope has
a new function.
The breakthrough (I reveal my opinion, now, since no one seems to have
objected -- or believed -- that there is a poetic one as I see it)
comes in the double meaning of the phrase 'whistle as the wind blows.'
Not only does it describe his *previous attitude* (apathy -- which
leads to his shame), it describes the *sound* of the wind whistling
past his limp body, hanging.
Long time fans might note that the final phrasing ('If the wind ... If
the air ... then ...) sounds an awful lot like the chorus in MOTM ('If
you believe ...). In both cases, the premise is false. Both are
examples of nonfactual phrasing, which, as I have said, as non-literal
syntax, derive their meaning from their very structure.
Form, in this case, does not follow function. It *is* function.
I might also mention that the form itself, of the 'if ... then' lines
does not in any way exclude them of a lmore iteral suggestion. In
fact, the levels play off of one another.
In remembering someone (e.g., at a wake or funeral), the two most
popular art forms are portraits and speeches.
If the wind were colors, we could paint by whistling. If the air could
speak, it would tell what it saw. Portrait. Verse.
Tad Schirz
ronh...@clarityconnect.com wrote:
> "kfj" <kar...@dontlikebelong.comma> dreamed of being naked before an
audience and saying:
>
> I agree that this is a wonderful song; I am glad that Chris and I
> recorded a cover version of it
And I think I mispoke. It's 2/4 time, right?
> It's a dream. A dream about dying, and about transcending. (I think
> that a lot of Stipe's death-lyrics end up being lyrics of
> transcendance -- which is no great innovation in American literature
> or music, of course, but is still interesting to observe.)
It's interesting that Stipe intrudes on Wendell's dream (since,
reasonably, he did not know of any such dream Wendell had). I don't
look for Stipey for transcendence (such as a Sartre philosophy) and I
don't think in this case he borrowed anything from literature (I think
more of the cinematic ideas that permeate the album, atune to both
modern and historic visual art). Matter of fact, I think literature is
a dead end for Stipey-interpretation, as much as that undermines my
entire undergrad degree. Sigh, and Smile. It's a Man Ray kind of
smile.
> >That's when Wendell Gee takes a tug
> >Upon the string that held the line of trees
> >Behind the house he lived in
>
> I hear this as describing the moment of his death. Perhaps he falls
> while out in the back yard, stricken with a heart attack or stroke?
Well, you know my position by now.
> In either case, he tugs the border of the yard -- the border of the
> known, the civilized, the lived-in -- as it happens. The tug is
> reminiscent of two things, a fish that has been caught (as he has
> perhaps been caught by death) or the tugs and vibrations you get
> from a can-and-string telephone. Message from the Great Beyond to
Wendell Gee!
I like your imagination, but I think it's simpler, and ironic. As a
tree carer, he would test the string for 'tautness', to ensure life.
If you were to hang yourself, too much slack would mean you wouldn't
die quick.
> >He was reared to give respect
> He's a nice guy, and he's going to heaven.
I think it's more of questioning the definition of respect, and how the
upbringing defines it.
> >But somewhere down the line he chose
> >To whistle as the wind blows
> >Whistle as the wind blows, with me
>
> The "but" troubles me. What's wrong with whistling with the wind?
> (Though, actually, I recall that my grandmother used to tell us that
> whistling was impolite, so maybe it's something like that.)
And you're right to think 'but' is a key in the lyric. It begins the
conflict. As I see it, 'chose to whistle as the wind blows...' is a
literal image, describing, e.g., rolling your eyes and turning away
from an action (that is happening, or that you are involved in). The
image sublimely hints at his behavior, without describing it exactly
(very, very typical of early lyrics).
And also, as I have suggested, the image is remarkable in that it
describes *two different times*; in fact, two actions that do have
religous ringings: His failure. His martyr.
> >He had a dream one night
> >That the tree had lost its middle
>
> Preminitions -- ordinary life is hollow, empty.
I think dreams are mixtures of memory. I do think Stipe is taking a
very liberal license in applying a thematic image.
> >So he built a trunk of chicken wire
> >To try to hold it up
>
> He tries to make up for the absence with the materials of real life,
> but it doesn't work.
I didn't mention this earlier, but chicken wire isn't going to save a
mature tree -- but it might help a sapling. And I think there is the
hint of 'youth' ringing through it.
> >But the wire, the wire turned to lizard skin
> >And when he climbed inside
>
> Lizard! (Nice to follow Hope, and all its talk of redemption through
> reptile DNA and alligators, with Wendell Gee, which finds redemption
> in a dream about climbing inside a reinforced tree that has turned to
lizard skin.)
Yeah, the whole catalog is filled with reptilian references. Point
taken. Although I think he talks about killing alligators because, in
fact, several Southern states reinstitued alligator hunting in the 90s
(suggestive of politics and the overlapping circles of all life, e.g.).
> Atavism is the reappearance of primitive characteristics, and it's
> one of those ideas that threads through Stipe's body of lyrics.
> Clearly he sees the possibility of redemption or transcendence
> through atavism. (Being an art major, he may also have connected the
> notion of biological atavism with primitivism in art, as well.)
Can't recall reading of 'atavisim' in any art books. Where did you get
that, Ron?
And primitivism is relative. Scholars and consumers both called 19th
century African carvings primitive until Picasso pointed out their
value. But I think I see your point -- your suggesting of
not 'primitive' necessarily, but inherent, human, yearnings represented
in ancient art (i.e., the Franco-Cantrabian cave drawings, 13000 BC).
But is Wendell's arc one of self-recognition? I don't think so,
because his taking his own life seems less martyrdom and more 20th
century brain-washing. If it was conscient, the lyrics seem to obscure
it, at best.
> >If the wind were colors
> >And if the air could speak
>
> Synaesthesia and personificaion. Nice, nice.
Are you suggesting the speaker is experiencing emotions that overwhelm
him, such that he speaks these lines? Sounds reasonable, but I believe
that's just the starting point!
Well, any way you slice it, this is one of the songs that endured me to
R.E.M. I remember sitting with friends in a dorm room in 1989,
drinking beer, trying to listen, write it down, understand as much as
possible.
Bottom line -- don't really care. It's a harbinger of the 'document'
style. And now the sound of my own past.
Tad Schirz
"helen looker" <hlo...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
> feathersiron <feathersir...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote
>
> > someone mentioned suicide. "Takes a tug upon the string" is
> > making me think he hanged himself.
>
> pondering upon the combination of 'string' and trees it suddenly hit
> me that this really should suggest hanging. I'm glad to see I'm not
> alone in this thought.
When you think about it, it's a masterful use of multitple levels of
meaning and imagery. Wind (i.e., the gusts blowing the feather around
in Forrest Gump, and the plastic bag in American Beauty) is fate. But
humans also can control wind. We can tie trees down. We can whistle.
We can breathe -- or choose not to.
--Tad
Ron Henry
>And I think I mispoke. It's 2/4 time, right?
It sounds like it to me. (2/4 time would also nicely correspond to a slow,
deliberate walking pace -- that, perhaps, of Wendell's mourners in a funeral
march?)
>It's interesting that Stipe intrudes on Wendell's dream (since,
>reasonably, he did not know of any such dream Wendell had).
Well, it's a conceit common to modernist "in the character's head" approaches.
<Hand-waves in the direction of Joyce and Faulkner>
>> I hear this as describing the moment of his death. Perhaps he falls
>> while out in the back yard, stricken with a heart attack or stroke?
>
>Well, you know my position by now.
Which, now that I have read it, sounds reasonable enough, though I am not
completely convinced that it wasn't just an old duffer who croaked while
putzing around in his back yard. (Of course, that's not nearly as exciting as
a suicide by hanging, I grant.)
>> He's a nice guy, and he's going to heaven.
>
>I think it's more of questioning the definition of respect, and how the
>upbringing defines it.
Hm. One of the things that interests me (and why I connect the rhetorics to
modernist literature, which Stipe was surely familiar with) is the tension
between the rustic/simple statements like "he was reared to give respect" and
the more surreal moments in the second verse. I think there are really two
sensibilities fighting each other in the language of this lyric -- Wendell
Gee's (insofar as he's been reconstructed in Stipe's lyric's language), and
Stipe the Art Boy's.
>> >He had a dream one night
>> >That the tree had lost its middle
>>
>> Preminitions -- ordinary life is hollow, empty.
[Ouch. What's happening to my spelling ability?]
>> Atavism is the reappearance of primitive characteristics, and it's
>> one of those ideas that threads through Stipe's body of lyrics.
>> Clearly he sees the possibility of redemption or transcendence
>> through atavism. (Being an art major, he may also have connected the
>> notion of biological atavism with primitivism in art, as well.)
>
>Can't recall reading of 'atavisim' in any art books. Where did you get
>that, Ron?
Atavism is more of a biological term. I was comparing it, and suggesting that
Stipe was comparing it, to "Primitivism" in art.
>And primitivism is relative. Scholars and consumers both called 19th
>century African carvings primitive until Picasso pointed out their
>value. But I think I see your point -- your suggesting of
>not 'primitive' necessarily, but inherent, human, yearnings represented
>in ancient art (i.e., the Franco-Cantrabian cave drawings, 13000 BC).
Well, we can put it in scare-quotes, but the name of Picasso et al's art
movement that borrowed from the styles and motifs of African and Asian
people's art was Primitivism, which assumes an evolutionary metaphor for
progress in art history analagous to phylogenic evolution in successively more
complex species. (Of course we suspect now that such notions are hogwash.)
>> Synaesthesia and personificaion. Nice, nice.
>
>Are you suggesting the speaker is experiencing emotions that overwhelm
>him, such that he speaks these lines? Sounds reasonable, but I believe
>that's just the starting point!
Well, yes, the synaesthesia and personification of the natural world suggest
that he is losing sensory coherence as he dies, and becoming a part of the
natural world as well (personifying it, in a way, as he returns to it).
jeff reichman
>
>It sounds like it to me. (2/4 time would also nicely correspond to a slow,
>deliberate walking pace -- that, perhaps, of Wendell's mourners in a funeral
>march?)
It's a nice thought, but I'm almost positive it is in 4/4 time. If it were in
2/4 time, each chord would last two measures, which would just be silly.
jeff
* * *
http://www.jeffreichman.com
music, writing and more.
Tad Schirz
> Hm. One of the things that interests me (and why I connect the
> rhetorics to modernist literature, which Stipe was surely familiar
> with) is the tension between the rustic/simple statements like "he
> was reared to give respect" and the more surreal moments in the
> second verse. I think there are really two sensibilities fighting
> each other in the language of this lyric -- Wendell Gee's
> (insofar as he's been reconstructed in Stipe's lyric's language), and
> Stipe the Art Boy's.
Well put. I have the same sentiment about the tension. Clearly the
literary devices have not escaped Art Boy's gaze (and clearly I missed
the necessary connection to Faulkner et al; then again, symbolic dream
imagery occurs way back in Genesis).
I am starting to see clearly your earlier point on how the narrator
structures Wendell to be on sort of a metaphysical 'borderline',
between worlds.
> Atavism is more of a biological term. I was comparing it, and
> suggesting that Stipe was comparing it, to "Primitivism" in art.
Gotcha.
>Primitivism ... assumes an evolutionary metaphor for
> progress in art history analagous to phylogenic evolution in
> successively more complex species. (Of course we suspect now that
such notions are hogwash.)
Okay. Yikes, I'm not even gonna look up phylogenic. This is starting
to sound dialectical! Where do Hegel and Darwin fit in? Thanks for
the info -- that goes beyond what I've read in Gardener's (your run-of-
the-mill frosh text).
> >...synaesthesia and personification of the natural world suggest
> that he is losing sensory coherence as he dies, and becoming a part
> of the natural world as well (personifying it, in a way, as he
returns to it).
I see your view. I guess I was assuming the narrator was speaking of
his own emotions ... showing his tremendous longing toward a
reconciliation. To rehash and expand, it's structurally suggesting
that language can control thought, and poetically that thought can
creatively reverse the process: through the act of an artistic work --
by alluding to ways one might make up for the tragic loss, and
the 'missed goodbye'.
BrgmtNVtvr
>playing or the 6 string variety that is tuned exactly like a guitar. As
>Peter seems to be picking one of his trademark arpeggios here so I suspect
which of the two it is? [Andrew]
I've been waiting for all those legions of banjo-playing R.E.M. fans to come
stampeding in with the answer to that. Must be some technical glitch, as I
haven't seen an answer ...
I'm not enough of a banjo player to be sure, but standard tuning of a 4- or
5-string banjo would lend itself pretty well to the key (C) and seeming banjo
chord configurations of "Wendell Gee." I think.
I never really thought that much about this song, but I have a new appreciation
of it thanks to everyone's comments, and I might actually drag out the ol'
banjo and give it a whirl (if I don't suffocate when I blow the dust off the
case). --Bergie
Andrew Palka
come
>stampeding in with the answer to that. Must be some technical glitch, as I
>haven't seen an answer ...
Me too.....I really want to know as I have considered buying one of the 6
string variety to see if how some of my guitar stuff would sound on
it.......
.
>I have a new appreciation of it thanks to everyone's comments, and I might
>actually drag out the ol'banjo and give it a whirl (if I don't suffocate
when I >blow the dust off the
>case). --Bergie
Me too...(for appreciating the comments) ..But even though I enjoy reading
the lyrical interpretations, I would also like to see more musical based
discussion on the SOTW. Like structure, arrangement, favorite instrumental
part etc. That's something I always enjoy discussing and there has to be
enough musicians out there who feel the same way. Maybe we could have 2
threads for each SOTW, one for lyrics, one for music................ (Does
that sound like an OK idea, kfj?)
BTW....If you do get a chance to pull out the old banjo, I'd love to know if
standard banjo tuning does suit the guitar key of C.......That might come in
handy some day........:-).
Andrew
***********************************************************
"We can all make music individually. But we're smart enough to know that the
music we make together is far better"......Peter Buck
BrgmtNVtvr <brgmt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000714220853...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
helen looker
Andrew Palka <asmu...@columbus.rr.com>
But even though I enjoy reading
> the lyrical interpretations, I would also like to see more musical based
> discussion on the SOTW. Like structure, arrangement, favorite instrumental
> part etc. That's something I always enjoy discussing and there has to be
> enough musicians out there who feel the same way. Maybe we could have 2
> threads for each SOTW, one for lyrics, one for music................ (Does
> that sound like an OK idea, kfj?)
I don't see you need another thread necessarily but just for people to post
about it. I for one hesitate to go into any detail as I don't have the
language or technical knowledge but I'd love to read what people who do have
some better understanding have to say.
BrgmtNVtvr
Cough! Cough! Choke! Sneeze! The amazing thing was, it's probably been in its
case in the corner for at least three years, and the strings had uniformly
drifted down a half-step, in key with itself! Except for that obnoxious fifth
string, which always did have a defective peg, anyway -- it's a Harmony. Are
they even in business anymore? Harmony was to musical instruments what Pacers
and Pintos were to automobiles, I think.
Okay, so, the standard tuning for a four string tenor banjo is (lowest string
to highest) C-G-B-D. On a five-string banjo, the fifth string is tuned to the G
above the D, BUT, that string is placed before the C string, and it doesn't
start until the sixth fret. Which is just more than my brain could handle, and
thus I never could get comfortable, mentally *or* physically, with a banjo. In
a way, I considered it good luck that the peg for my fifth string wouldn't hold
in place right, because I was much better off removing it altogether; then I
could play the damned thing a little bit.
Thinking logically never got me anywhere with a banjo; perhaps I should have
tried playing it drunk. If'n the Good Lord had meant the banjo to be played
sober, he wouldn'ta invented moonshine, right? A big yeeeee-hah to whommmever
had the good sense to invent the six-string/guitar-tuned banjo! --Bergie
Andrew Palka
>about it. I for one hesitate to go into any detail as I don't have the
>language or technical knowledge but I'd love to read what people who do
>have
>some better understanding have to say.
That's OK. Feel free to comment in general terms....Some of us "guitar"
types aren't as brilliantly technical as we'd like to be or as technical as
we'd like to come across as being .........:-) ....If you like the melody,
for example, just say why. That's cool. I just feel if we always focus in on
the lyrics, then we're slighting the other 2 guys (3 before Up...). I know
Peter and Mike also contribute to the lyrics sometimes, but they are
primarily the ones who compose the music......And let me stress again that I
*like* reading the lyrical commentary. ......:-)
>Cough! Cough! Choke! Sneeze! The amazing thing was, it's probably been in
>its
>case in the corner for at least three years, and the strings had uniformly
>drifted down a half-step, in key with itself! Except for that obnoxious
fifth
>string, which always did have a defective peg, anyway -- it's a Harmony.
Are
>they even in business anymore? Harmony was to musical instruments what
>Pacers
>and Pintos were to automobiles, I think.
That same comment easily applies to Harmony guitars...........;-) I hope my
comments in my original post re: the banjo helped inspire you to brush off
the dust ,Bergie. If so, Please keep playing. I'm just coming off a 3 month
period of not playing at all and my fingers are complaining.......But a good
friend is coming over tonight who plays flute. We do a smoking Driver 8
guitar/flute duo!.......I'm looking forward to it.....! Re: your comments
regarding the magical properties of alcohol when combined with making music,
I'm with ya...... I always make sure my audience has a couple beers first
before I pull out the guitar. Makes them more enthusiastic and more
forgiving at the same time. And I'll take any edge I can get!........You
learn these tricks of the masters as you go along I
guess........................;-)
Andrew
**********************************************************
"I'm a pickin"........"And I'm a grinnin".........Buck Owens/Roy Clark....
BrgmtNVtvr <brgmt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000715165649...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
BrgmtNVtvr
>comments in my original post re: the banjo helped inspire you to brush off
Well, for probably a day or two! I did tinker slightly with "Wendell Gee," and
I feel it's pretty likely Peter used a five-string with standard banjo tuning
for it. It's that fifth string tuned up to G that makes it seem likely -- his
arpeggios go up to G and simply playing that open string would be the obvious
way to do it.
>a good
>friend is coming over tonight who plays flute. We do a smoking Driver 8
>guitar/flute duo!
Hmm ... I play flute, but it never would have occurred to me to try that one!
"Find The River," sure, but "Driver 8," eh?
> I always make sure my audience has a couple beers first
>before I pull out the guitar.
That's all? "A couple beers"? Wow, you must be teeming with self-confidence!
If I don't see Jagermeister chasers being passed around and bodies lying prone,
I claim a sliver in my finger and pass the guitar on. Enthusiasm and
forgiveness are nice drunken traits, but more important to me is the
retrospective distortion: the next day, they always think it was much better
than it actually was. Which is why it's best for me to be drunk, too. -Bergie
Andrew Palka
>>friend is coming over tonight who plays flute. We do a smoking Driver 8
>Hmm ... I play flute, but it never would have occurred to me to try that
one!
>"Find The River," sure, but "Driver 8," eh?
It works!.....I strum the guitar chords. He does the lyrical line on flute.
We double on the intro guitar line. In fact, since its the day after, yes we
did play it. It sounded great. We drank lots of beer. A perfect
evening.......So....you play guitar and flute too, huh?. A
multi-instrumentalist huh? I'm impressed............:-)
>> I always make sure my audience has a couple beers first
>>before I pull out the guitar.
>That's all? "A couple beers"? Wow, you must be teeming with
self->confidence!
OK. You got me on that one. "A couple beers" is a relative term. Change to:
As close to tanked as possible while still being conscious and vertical.
>If I don't see Jagermeister chasers being passed around and bodies lying
>prone,
>I claim a sliver in my finger and pass the guitar on. Enthusiasm and
>forgiveness are nice drunken traits, but more important to me is the
>retrospective distortion: the next day, they always think it was much
better
>than it actually was. Which is why it's best for me to be drunk,
too. -Bergie
In my case, I sometimes get drunk afterwards *due* to my
performance.....;-).
BTW....Just so this actually fits this thread. We tried Wendell Gee last
night as a guitar/flute thing. It sounded pretty good............!
Andrew
***********************************************************
"We can all make music individually. But we're smart enough to know that the
music we make together is far better"......Peter Buck
BrgmtNVtvr <brgmt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000715222104...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
kfj
news:k4%b5.3673$s3.5...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com...
> Me too...(for appreciating the comments) ..But even though I enjoy reading
> the lyrical interpretations, I would also like to see more musical based
> discussion on the SOTW. Like structure, arrangement, favorite instrumental
> part etc. That's something I always enjoy discussing and there has to be
> enough musicians out there who feel the same way. Maybe we could have 2
> threads for each SOTW, one for lyrics, one for music................ (Does
> that sound like an OK idea, kfj?)
uh, no. I add the lyrics because they're easy to reproduce and they're the
easiest thing for people to discuss, it's hardly the same thing to add the
tablature. If you read the intros closely, you'll note that i generally ask
more broad questions like "do you like it?" rather than ask about the lyrics
particularly, so I think the only thing preventing a SOTW thread from having
both musical and lyrical discussion is the paucity of people posting about
the music part. which is to say, just post about what interests you under
the thread. :)
-k
this week's SOTW is coming tonight.
BrgmtNVtvr
>night as a guitar/flute thing. It sounded pretty good............!
And there it was, a gorgeous Sunday in the Chicago area, low humidity for once,
a list of 67 things to do on the refrigerator, and I spent half the afternoon
playing "Wendell Gee" on the banjo, totally fixated. I can definitely imagine
it working with guitar and flute, because I was thinking of taking it up to the
key of D (C is a hair too low for me to sing, anyway) and having pennywhistle
in the background. But I promise I won't convert it into a fugue! --Bergie