R Reggae Record Labels Making $$$
Rdawta
has been an opportunity for more reggae labels to fit in this niche.
But are they really making any money? If so, why are reggae artists
still so marginalized in this business?
It seems the only record company that's making any serious money is
VP, everybody else, must be eating peanut butter and jelly 3x a day.
What's up with that, and why are these labels just sitting on their
butts, not promoting this music the way it needs to be? What tracking
method does reggae use to track its sales in the reggae market and the
overall mainstream market? And how about those infamous mix tapes/cds
that manage to be all over the place -- is that cutting at the heart
of the matter?
I have often thought about going into the record label business, but
it seems like a lose/lose situation, plummeting money into something
that will never get off the ground. Of course there are
possibilities, but if that were the case others would be far more
successful. Are there success stories?
Adjua Dubb
RDonnart
Rda...@hotmail.com (Rdawta)a écrit :
>What's up with that, and why are these labels just sitting on their
>butts, not promoting this music the way it needs to be? What tracking
>method does reggae use to track its sales in the reggae market and the
>overall mainstream market? And how about those infamous mix tapes/cds
>that manage to be all over the place -- is that cutting at the heart
>of the matter?
most of these labels are not sitting on their butts.reggae doesn't sell in huge
quantities, when you look at the amount of records released every year.
As you are american, you must know that a lot of US distributors want the
lion' s share, and i am sure that several of the ng people would confirm this.
i was e-mailed a contract with all the penalty system and all...WOW ! crazy
shit !
no wonder most foreign labels would rather pass than get a distro deal in the
US.
they have most of the cards in their game and the label seems to be lucky to
get dealt a card at random.
no wonder so many labels have gone belly up, or experience (or seem to
experience) serious harsdships.
on the other hand, when a big distro goes bust (someone must remember the good
things with caroline, even some labels which did ok felt it dearly !!).
i know of a few people who release high quality stuff with cult artists but
they end up selling two thousand, and all the time i see people in fora and ng
who are looking for their releases. yes, there is problem of connections :
reggae is developed worldwide and JA artists have now reached out to other
countries apart from the usual UK and US, who were first in the game.that some
fans may be a little lazy to go beyond their usual outlets is another matter.
there are also interests at play, i suspect it, from the bigger labels, which
sometimes flood the market with disposable albums.i wonder why, sometimes.
another main reason is that JA music (at least when it comes to current
sounds) is enjoyed by a majority of young people who don't come from
priviledged segments of society : if i were a kid, i'd go for a mix tape over
two singles.
how many 7"'s would i get for my monthly money, if i am lucky to get any.
first, good turntables are not cheap nowadays, second, i'd get at least 30
tunes instead of just two ! simple enough.
as a kid, i bought what i could afford, most of the JA sounds were much too
expensive for me, so i traded with friends and foreign penpals.and that wasn't
a crime !that was a different time, now there are small time hustlers who sell
copies bcs money is the ultimate value.
Anyway, most kids today 'd rather invest in a video game which will last them
muc longer than a record they will listen to 20 times at most (maybe they'll
rediscover it when they are older, but...). I don't blame them.Besides, games
sales have dropped dramatcally since last year, bcs the kids aren't stupid :
they know they are now reaching a saturated situation where most developers
feed them the same hackneyed ideas again and again.just like in the hippy music
days ! what they want now is the video equivalent of the Punk rock. that
there's a crisis in the music industry couldn't bother them in the least.
most music doesn't sell that much now, anyway, apart from the big "products"
which are just sold like washing powder, yes, most sat and cable channels do
some good washing with their crappy glittering vids and dare i mention public
channels who back lame artist who've been doing the same shit for ages, or
those "music" reality shows.
THAT is the sort of "music" reggae can't stand a chance against.
bcs for the mainstream reggae means bob marley and jimmy cliff 's Reggae Night,
and there is nothing we can do about it !
as in the comic book field jargon, reggae is bound to remain "overground",
between "underground" and "mainstream". apart from a few hits.
exchange, trade and share the info is the best we can do.
and on the professional level, well, it's now time for the majors' staff to
rake their brains to come up with the right idea, if those int'l scrooges have
any left.they give free dvd with their "stars" albums, ah ah, funny ! this is
mostly WEAK. How many times ill one watch a concert or the same vids you
swallow on tv everyday ?
there is a race going on now, and indie labels have a chance to be innovative
again, but it will have to go further than just provide the music.
well, i could go on and on but it's late...
Bjahn1
swallow on tv everyday ?
there is a race going on now, and indie labels have a chance to be innovative
again, but it will have to go further than just provide the music.
well, i could go on and on but it's late...
totaly agree
Rdawta
its not because there is obviously a market out there buying it, but
how much of that market share is actually being tapped and documented.
Its difficult to discern when so many indie labels operate so
independently. There are no federations and very little organization
amongst them to determine reggae's real potential. The distribution
aspect of reggae music also seems to leave a lot to be desired. With
a long standing run in America for over 25 - 30 years, the music has
had some time to get a good footing in the industry, but still lacks a
cohesiveness to bridge its sales w/ its promotion and production.
I mean, the majors are still touting Bob Marley as the greatest
selling artist 24 years after his passing. And that's pretty sad,
esp, w/ the great abundance of artists and music out there that has
steadily been growing.
We all know the majors is a dog eat dog world, but reggae has got to
bite back. Hip hop (though its mainstream production has taken over
the world) is still a struggling art form, but despite that, you still
have some heavy contenders and they manage to market and promote their
stuff regardless of how underground it is...in essence people know
about it.
Reggae is more of, what town/city, are you from, what island, and if
it isn't from JA then get off de truck! There's very little
cohesiveness in the reggae scene.
" indie labels have a chance to be innovative
> again, but it will have to go further than just provide the music.
> well, i could go on and on but it's late..."
this is crucial if reggae is to survive, really its like a woman
screaming behind a glass box, everyone is passing by her, only
glancing at her but no one hears her. Isn't it time she is really
heard?
As a side note, The BET Awards has had a stunning run for the past 4-5
years now, and every year, no reggae artists perform, yet, they have
been biting and showing reggae music far more heavily now than ever.
But somehow they manage to cut them out as much as possible, that's
all the televised awards shows.
Janet performed w/ Elephant Man this year which was surprising, but
what if that was truly Ele's stage show, it would have had a different
impact.
This must change.
A.Dubb
I agree, Reggae is ova ground and under it, and
rdon...@aol.com (RDonnart) wrote in message news:<20040714193803...@mb-m28.aol.com>...
THEENERGYMAN
theirabilities and the way they do carry out their promotions.
Most producers/labels are only willing to record or release'safe artists'
(i.e.luciano, sizzla, glen washington, etc.) because they feel they can readily
& easily sell their titles without much promotion. In some effect this is true
however the market gets over saturated with these releases and for the general
buying public which one are they to buy? In the same breathe a release that has
a majority of unknown or lesser known artist will not sell because who buys
recordings of artists that they flat out dont know? radio shows & d.j.s can be
a lot of help in developing new & upcoming artists - but look around and see
how many actually are. Again it is easier for the radio d.j. to play the hot
new riddim w/top artists or familiar classics.
The entire scene needs a facelift. There has to be NEW artists, NEW riddims,
NEW songs etc. It cant be retread for too much longer.
Ask yourself this...which artists in the last five or even ten years have come
out that have the 'classic' potential such as such artists as
Dennis Brown, Freddie McGregor, Beres Hammond, Glen Washington, Bob Marley,
Sanchez, URoy etc.etc. Better yet what about full bands? Perhaps just a few.
The scene does not develop, nourish, and create new artists & excitement like
it needs to grow.
Again it takes EVERYBODY to change this. If the radio plays new, then the
patrons will purchase new, then the demand for new is out there so
labels/producers make new product.
VP records does well because it is a money machine now. It makes money. If you
notice though that they will pour promotion money into their top acts, but
promotion for lesser known acts that they do release get next to nothing in
promotion. (for example:look at their website and see what type of promotion
has been done for artists such as Lloyd Brown, Fiona, etc., next to nothing).
Its just the business of it and that is why it is handled this way.
For most artists that are not well known it is hard for them to steadily
develop and become a top knotch act. For all of those that have definite
potential they fall by the wayside sooner or later because the lack of funding
and help in promoting & developing.
As far as the mix tapes, they are great for the dance however they SEVERELY
hurt the artists because the artists & even the producers do not see any of the
$$$.
So for as many people that buy the hottest mix cd is as many cds by the
artist(s) that are not being bought.
The last factor that hurts the reggae selling business is the stereotypes. Hard
core folks dont want their music/sounds to be imitated or saturated, and most
non regular listening reggae listeners that are only familiar with Bob Marley
(or the very few popular titles that have been released in major markets)
dont know that there is an entire world of great reggae artists & music.
Reggae music MUST be able to be exploited to new markets and new people to grow
and become a major money making force. The R&B and Hip Hop market in the USA
know this and that is why you are hearing reggae type influences in songs by
artists such as Kelis, Beyonce, The Sugababes, Black Eyed Peas, & many more.
Hard core people may not like it, but for every person that hears say a 'Hey
Mama' by the Black Eyed Peas is yet another person who may become a hardcore
buying fan of hardcore reggae artists. I've seen it happen many times and it IS
healthy.
The exposure to the general public also needs our (the hardcore reggae fan)
input. We have to let them know that reggae didn't start & end with Bob Marley
& that like preaching the values of peace, love, unity, or entertainment - that
reggae music itself is diverse & open to have something for everybody.
IRIE!
Bjahn1
We all know the majors is a dog eat dog world, but reggae has got to
bite back. Hip hop (though its mainstream production has taken over
Strugeling art form?, Hip Hop out sells most music of any type music right now
<< As a side note, The BET Awards has had a stunning run for the past 4-5 years
now, and every year, no reggae artists perform, yet, they have been biting and
showing reggae music far more heavily now than ever. >><BR><BR>
Part of why a lot of (industry)people dont deal with reggae artist is some of
them need to come down to reality, when somone makes an interview appointment
or whatever, you HAVE to show up. Also a few artist are not very articulate
when it comes to interveiws, how may times can someone say " Jah seh so" or
whatever it is. I have interviewd hundreds of artist, and FEW have much to say,
some have a lot of insight and stories but to do an in depth interview and get
good material is not easy in most cases. I say SOME artist, others are very
articulate. THIS is what the record co. independant or otherwise depend on,
blurbs to sell the records, PR. But some need to realize thier responsibilty as
an artist, if u want to progress u have to play the game to a point, do the
interviews, radio etcc. and show up ON TIME and stay for the duration.
Rdawta
> <<
> We all know the majors is a dog eat dog world, but reggae has got to
> bite back. Hip hop (though its mainstream production has taken over
> the world) is still a struggling art form, >><BR><BR>
>
> Strugeling art form?, Hip Hop out sells most music of any type music right now
music. What's being blared out all over radio/video I dare call
hiphop, but rap or club music.
>
>
> << As a side note, The BET Awards has had a stunning run for the past 4-5 years
> now, and every year, no reggae artists perform, yet, they have been biting and
> showing reggae music far more heavily now than ever. >><BR><BR>
>
> Part of why a lot of (industry)people dont deal with reggae artist is some of
> them need to come down to reality, when somone makes an interview appointment
> or whatever, you HAVE to show up. Also a few artist are not very articulate
> when it comes to interveiws, how may times can someone say " Jah seh so" or
> whatever it is. I have interviewd hundreds of artist, and FEW have much to say,
> some have a lot of insight and stories but to do an in depth interview and get
> good material is not easy in most cases. I say SOME artist, others are very
> articulate. THIS is what the record co. independant or otherwise depend on,
> blurbs to sell the records, PR. But some need to realize thier responsibilty as
> an artist, if u want to progress u have to play the game to a point, do the
> interviews, radio etcc. and show up ON TIME and stay for the duration.
very good point, but how can artists do radio when there aren't alot
of radio outlets for them to be heard. In the US reggae is so
regional that what you hear in Texas, you're not going to hear in
Santa Monica, or Virgina, etc.
While I agree some artist are not necessarily "radio friendly" in
their interviews, I think their needs to be a platform that allows for
them to be heard all over. Too bad there is no real outlet. I'm sure
they would clean up their I-tation then. With so many bands, talent
and potential there has to be a better way for record labels to push
their artists. Thanks for your input.
Robert Schoenfeld
a long standing unwillingness on the part of black radio and the commercial
black entertainment organizations to give exposure to reggae. That dates
back to Marley times. I have always assumed (without really knowing) that
Jamaican artists were seen as competing with black US artists. Historically
there has never been much support in the US black entertainment business for
Jamaican music and artists. That has only begun to change in modern times
with the presence of Jamaican artists on the Billboard charts, another
modern phenomena with the reggae/hip hop cross over.
On a side note, I have often found conflicts exist between Jamaicans and
with black Americans on the local level. This is not a new development.
There are cultural differences, language differences and personal ones as
well. This seems to reflect a hightened awareness of the differences more
than the similarities that exist -- all of which are ripe for sociological
study. And this may well account for the fact that Jamaican artists have
largely benefited from the support of white audiences in historical terms.
In more recent times, there appears to be a greater acceptance of Jamaican
style by Black Americans. Whether this goes beyond "style" remains to be
seen.
Jamaicans have told me, rightly or wrongly, that they feel closer to white
people on the personal level. This may be a remnant of Jamaica's history
with England and of colonialism. From a broader historical perspective the
differences between Black Americans and Jamaicans would seem to have more to
do with the fact that some slaves wound up here while others were placed in
the Caribbean. And inevitably there was some absorbtion of the local
culture by those same black slaves and the cultural differences appear to
have been exadurated to a degree as noted by the lack of support for
Jamaican music at the commercial level.
Again on a broader level, there is a lack of communication and a lack of
understanding for those things that people tend to view as different and
that contributes to fear and estrangement. It is my own opinion, that the
same things that make Jamaicans unique are the very things that are
deserving of appreciation. That is especially true at a time when unique
qualities are harder and harder to find.
Until the era of reggae / hip hop crossover, promoting reggae in the US has
never been easy. It has certainly never been a path to wealth and success
given the levels of resistance that exist. That is probably why the
greatest promotion for reggae has come from more open-minded segments of the
entertainment business -- especially college and non-commercial readio. I
am sure that if Marley had been more widely accepted in his time by the
entertainment business as a whole, that this view would probably not be so
much the case today where remnants of that attitude remain to be broken down
to this day.
If hip hop is seen as a mostly DJ or talking over rhythms format, there is
little doubt that Jamaicans have a huge advantage in that realm given that
this format has existed for over 30 years there. I do not hear a lot of
this sort of thing in the US that takes this format much farther than was
first explored by Lee Perry and Dillinger some 30+ years ago in Jamaica but
there is not a lot of willingness to face up to this among American style
DJs or chatting artists. Maybe that is why so many US DJs are either the
sons of Jamaican parents or otherwise descended from Jamaican roots.
Jamaica "owns" that style of performance from any historical perspective and
they certainly have a far greater experience with it.
"Rdawta" <Rda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f1fb7acc.04071...@posting.google.com...
Bjahn1
On a side note, I have often found conflicts exist between Jamaicans and
Exactly, they see themselves as Jamaicans with no "real" connection to Black
Americans, just being black doesnt quite make the connection to them.
I had always found it intersesing to see the interaction of Jamaicans, in
Jamaica with black American tourists, are treated just like any other American
tourist, them being black doesnt really enter into the picture, are just
another American spending $$.
<< Jamaicans have told me, rightly or wrongly, that they feel closer to white
people on the personal level. >><BR><BR>
I have heard this also from a few people, also brobably because more white
Americans take an interest in Jamaica than the average black American does, are
more of them visiting JA as well.
Tom
all, they're trying to sell mostly very low-quality music (i.e. bad
low-fi production, rushed recording & mixing, no mastering at all etc.
etc.). Personally I listen to those release once and end up not buying
them.
I believe the problem is that nowadays... well, you know... everybody
thinks he can get into studio-business without having learned the
trade vice versa it's easy to start an independent label releasing
cheap recordings without proper promotion and distribution; artists
believe the business side of Reggae is making as much cash as they can
instead of developing their profile & skills, and we all know artists
end especially JA artists are not the easiest people do deal with...
besides that: In the early days Reggae promoted a message a lot of
people wanted to hear and could identify with, nowadays not many
people find messages from the likes of Buju and Capleton attractiv.
I think it all comes down to the bottom line that people do things
without proper specific education... so people who want to be involved
in the business... they better learn their trade well. We need
professionells in the business and not amateurs.
Tom.
Rda...@hotmail.com (Rdawta) wrote in message news:<f1fb7acc.04071...@posting.google.com>...
RDonnart
its_a_fal...@yahoo.com (Tom)a écrit :
>In the early days Reggae promoted a message a lot of
>people wanted to hear and could identify with,
90 % of reggae tunes in those days were dance tunes and love songs beween 68
and 71, and those are the early days of that music.not marley on Island, not
jimmy cliff on any label, which too many in the western world took as a
blueprint for anything else that should be released after...
RDonnart
>nowadays not many
>people find messages from the likes of Buju and Capleton attractive.
how so ? on which grounds is your remark based ?
do you really think that most people care about the lyrics ?
do you really think most of the 60's and 70's were great lyricists ?
once again, your views are totally biased.
as you mention buju, well, i think he has written his fair share of good
lyrics, just compare them to what many rasta dj's wrote in the 70's, and you'll
notice that they aren't worse. not everyone was as good lyrically as jazzbo,
jah lloyd, prince far i and a few others then.
RDonnart
>
>I do not believe that those small independents making money, after
>all, they're trying to sell mostly very low-quality music (i.e. bad
>low-fi production, rushed recording & mixing, no mastering at all etc.
>etc.). Personally I listen to those release once and end up not buying
>them.
this is one of the most insulting remarks i have read in the ng lately.
stop living in a sort of "distorted" past.
i don't want to seem aggressive but i can think of many people who'd be too
glad to slap you for saying such thing.
you don't need to get backing from a major to release excellent music.i'd even
say they mostly end up making the results weaker (though there are a few
notable exceptions.
most of today's reggae labels are independent, anyway ! and a lot are run by
dedicated people, not hustlers (though i don't deny they exist !).
as for the "lo-fi production, rushed recording...", that's how most of the gems
of JA music were created, mind you.
what mattered was the spirit, not the number of tracks in the studio : nowadays
so many artists record on more than 48 tracks, the charts are full of them, and
do they carry a better vibe by doing so ????
and that's probably why so many of the JA productions are so much better than
the tunes which were then released on int'l major labels, which for a number of
conservative minds, equates to the "halcyon days of reggae".
if everybody expected the same things as you from JA music, how boring it'd be,
imo.
Martin Slaney
> We need
> professionells in the business and not amateurs.
> Tom.
Hmmm .... your spelling isn't very professional is it ?
So "professional" = what ? 128 tracks + 93 million virtual tracks ?
Taking 2 years to record one tune ? ekkkkk !!!!
The early days of reggae produced the real magic IMHO. Recorded on what
? I'd guess pretty much live takes - 2 tracks, maybe 4 - just one or two
vocal overdubs perhaps .... ekkkk - all the modern-day studio tinkering
is largely wanking IMHO ....
"Professional" = crawling with marketroids, bean-counters, lawyers and
other assorted corporate pond-life in suits ? ekkkkkk !!!!!
You talk bullshit matey !!
Tom
Oh well.
Tom.
rdon...@aol.com (RDonnart) wrote in message news:<20040719082637...@mb-m24.aol.com>...
Rdawta
get back to the original post at hand, whose making some money in this
thing. It doesn't matter the relationships between whites or blacks,
Jamacians and Americans, that is bull when it comes down to the green.
And when is reggae as a respectable art form going to really get some.
While its kind of contradictary, because I personally see reggae as a
form that breaks away from the norm. Needs money, but don't need it
to be validated.
Needs exposure, but doesn't need it, because who want truth will come
get it.
However, with the backbone of all musical art forms having been
crushed for the machine that we call the "music business" record
labels, have a duty to present music truthfully. Ask Lauryn Hill how
she feels about the record industry today? Not just her but many
others.
There are many qualified and professional indie record lables doing
their thing, putting out quality reggae music for the masses. Its how
that exchange is documented and how it can be raised to a level where,
reggae representation is consistent and more prominent in all areas of
media. Movies, Television, Radio and of course the Music Video. In
all these arenas, reggae needs a face lift, and make over that is
realistic and visionary enough to not water it down and to present its
truest form (roots, rockers, dub) to its most lucid (i.e dancehall,
club music) without all the politricks.
But I do hope the green will continue to come in for these labels, and
there will be more unity in the business.
Ites
A.Dubb
Martin Slaney <slazNI...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:<40FBC657...@dsl.pipex.com>...