What bands' music will survive? RUSH of course
Steven Sullivan
Geir Hongro (geir...@online.no) wrote:
: EFY...@leeds.ac.uk (M.A. ARINO CLARKE) wrote:
: >Now this I can't accept. During the 80's Rush put out really good albums, but
: >also really shit recordings. And, don't you think that Hemispheres is as
: >progressive as it gets? 2112? CoS? Are they "plain heavy rock" to you?
: Not PLAIN, but the heavy guitar sound, screaming vocals, and the
: fact that they almost never had any of those wonderful slow,
: silent, accoustic parts that Genesis and Yes were so wonderfully
: good at, puts them partly in the heavy metal camp for me.
: In the 80s the singer screamed less (although still too much) and
: the fuzz sound was turned down (although still not completely off,
: as it ought to). Also they put some more silent parts into their
: music which made it more similar to Genesis and Yes and thus
: better.
: >However, there is some heavy rock that deserves to be saved. Deep Purple,
: >Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Some Metallica, Rush... Well, I just don't know
: >what you understand by "heavy rock" because I didn't apply it to Rush and you
: >did; maybe Skynyrd are heavy rock to you, who knows.
: I would say some of Black Sabbath's stuff, and definitely some of
: Metallica's earliest, noisiest stuff, is the kind of music that
: seems to put the emphasis on "noise for noise's own sake".
: Among the others I respect Deep Purple. I also respect Led
: Zeppelin (although I respect neither anything from their first
: tree heaviest albums nor Robert Plants unbearable screaming vocal
: style). Rush, of course, are also better than most heavy rock, but
: still there's too much sceaming and too much fuzz on the guitar.
Um, Geir, Led Zep III is probably the closest Zep came to putting out a
'folk hard rock' album. 'Presence', for example, is quite a bit heavier.
Taste issues aside (I find yours nearly incomprehensible), I get the
continuing impression that you don't know what you're talking about. For
example, Rush: they wrote much more in the 'progressive' style in the 70's
than the 80's, contrary to your belief, and *did* do those silent [sic]
acoustic parts on their 1970's albums, it's just that they sounded like
lame Genesis/Yes copies for the most part.
John J Troutman
Geir Hongro wrote:
>
> I guess the lesson here is pretty clear: Never say anything
> negative about Rush in rec.music.progressive....
I've done it. Nobody came after me.
>
> And I was a fool to believe those people actually listened to GOOD
> progressive rock, like Genesis, like Yes, like ELP, like
> Marillion......
>
You would only be a fool if you truly believed they don't. It's just
that most of the groups you mention have their own ngs, and most people
here tend to discuss the lesser known stuff. Don't be so quick to write
rmp off; I haven't been here that long and I've already got a huge
shopping list of the symphonic, melodic prog you seem to favor.
Jeff Troutman
Now Playing: Sam & Dave - Best of
John J Troutman
> >"likeness to Yes and early Genesis" is a valid parameter to measure the
> >objective quality of music.
>
> Most progressive fans (apart from those non-tonal snobs that
> listen to King Crimson, Eno and krautrock) view those groups as
> some of the best of the genre. Punkers may not, but on the other
> hand they hate Rush just as much anyway.
Most progressive fans that I know listen to Yes and King Crimson both. I
am extremely fond of both Gabriel-era Genesis and krautrock. I suspect
many, if not most progressive fans are as well. I think you may be
generalizing a bit too much here.
> >Good for you, if you checked out that, you might then apreciate the beauty of
> >Orion. It's sad to think that such a fine band has gone as low as to put out
> >Reload or , for that case , Load. It's the same as with Yes: they spent
> >their 1st decade doing their music, and in their second one they added pop to
> >the recipe, so more people would buy albums... the history tells what happened
> >with both bands.
>
> I would say what Yes did was basically they added a Rush influence
> to their music in the 80s.
>
Yes were already making moves into the pop market by the late '70s. Pop
moves in the early '80s seemed to involve some pretty bombastic
productions, and it was fortunate for Yes that one of the creators of
that sound (Trevor Horn) was a friend of theirs. I don't think Rush is
much of an influence here.
Jeff Troutman
Now Playing: Sam & Dave - Best Of
Skilbarton
You know, there seems to be more than enough critisism for Rush than
appreciation for what they accomplished over the years. The 80's were a
terrible time for any prog rock afficionado unless they had an underground
access to the Prog movement not yet accessible by the internet. I for one
looked forward to the bi-yearly release of each Rush album because it was the
only music I could relate to. Period.
They never sold out and they never stopped playing virtuosic music. Everyone
else did.
So, lets give these guys credit and appreciate their effect on today's music.
I'd like to think that they are right up there with Bach, Beethoven and early
Genesis.
Dave
Skilbarton
I have listened to everyone of Rush's albums and love them more and more. Viva
la difference!
Texture...no one has done more than Alex Lifeson to pioneer the sounds that an
electric guitar can make. Not Eddie Van Halen. Not Joe Satriani. Not anyone.
Dave
Steven Sullivan
Skilbarton (skilb...@aol.com) wrote:
: You know, there seems to be more than enough critisism for Rush than
: appreciation for what they accomplished over the years. The 80's were a
: terrible time for any prog rock afficionado unless they had an underground
: access to the Prog movement not yet accessible by the internet. I for one
: looked forward to the bi-yearly release of each Rush album because it was the
: only music I could relate to. Period.
: They never sold out and they never stopped playing virtuosic music. Everyone
: else did.
um...King Crimson?
: So, lets give these guys credit and appreciate their effect on today's music.
: I'd like to think that they are right up there with Bach, Beethoven and early
: Genesis.
I'd like to think you MUST be joking, at least about the Bach/Beethoven
part.
Robert M.
Steven Sullivan wrote:
>
> : So, lets give these guys credit and appreciate their effect on today's music.
> : I'd like to think that they are right up there with Bach, Beethoven and early
> : Genesis.
>
> I'd like to think you MUST be joking, at least about the Bach/Beethoven
> part.
I think he hit it right on the mark
Robert M.
Skilbarton wrote:
>
> You know, there seems to be more than enough critisism for Rush than
> appreciation for what they accomplished over the years. The 80's were a
> terrible time for any prog rock afficionado unless they had an underground
> access to the Prog movement not yet accessible by the internet. I for one
> looked forward to the bi-yearly release of each Rush album because it was the
music that seemed to be aimed at someone like me, so while all the
stupid high schoolers would be doing their silly things and listening to
Kew Kids on the Block or Paula Abdul I had my face buried in a text book
and my ears and mind tuned into the music from my walkman, know that I
was "IN" on the secret of Rush...btw, it was the Pass that turned me
into the fan I am.
Dave Lane
Skilbarton wrote:
> Texture...no one has done more than Alex Lifeson to pioneer the sounds that an
> electric guitar can make. Not Eddie Van Halen. Not Joe Satriani. Not anyone.
Not even Les Paul, John McLaughlin, David Torn, Terje Rypdal, Jef Beck, Joe Pass,
Eric Clapton, Allan Holdsworth, Robert Fripp, Bill Frisell, Pete Cosey, Pat
Metheny,
Frank Zappa, Link Wray or anyone else? Wow, Rush roolz.
--Dave
Rush3671
Geir Hongro said:
>The only progressive band that
>was better in the 80s than in the 70s was Rush,
You can't be serious. "Moving Pictures" stands as one of their best, but it was
their '70s works, IMO, that established them as one of the perimer prog-rock
bands of the era. With a very few execptions, everything from p/g forward is
bland and very lacking in any kind of personality. It sounds to me as though
they've been making the same album over and over again ever since -- most of
the songs could be interchanged from one album to another and you'd never
notice the difference. "Power Windows" better than "A Farewell to Kings"? "Hold
Your Fire" better than "2112" or "Hemipsheres"??? I don't think so. If their
'80s material had been what they led off with in the '70s, I think they would
have been largely forgotten today.
> still even their
>80s stuff can't compare to the best 70s stuff by Genesis, Yes or
>even prog pop bands such as Supertramp and 10cc.
>
Or even their own '70s output.
Adrian M. Rush
"cha cha cha, CHA CHA!"
--Jon Anderson, 1974
Kjartan Almenning
Geir Hongro wrote:
>
> I guess the lesson here is pretty clear: Never say anything
> negative about Rush in rec.music.progressive....
No, that usually works out fine, the point is; never say anything *stupid*
about Rush (or any other band) in rec.music.progressive.
> And I was a fool to believe those people actually listened to GOOD
> progressive rock, like Genesis, like Yes, like ELP, like
> Marillion......
We do, too. Our perspective just appears to be a little broader than what
you're used to. ;)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Kjartan Almenning
--------------------------------------------------------------------
kja...@vestdata.no
http://www.vestdata.no/~kjaalm/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Gondola Bob
I'm just loving seeing Geir, who has been trying to defend prog-rock in
alt.music.alternative for ages, getting thoroughly reamed by
rec.music.progressive subscribers, now that he's actually attempting to
participate in their newsgroup.
HA.
Eb
Dirk Evans
Mega-dittos Dave
Everyone of the guitarists that you mentioned were truly innovative.
Although I love Lifeson's work, I do not consider him innovative in his
guitar sound.
The most incredible guitar playing that I have EVER heard was Allan
Holdsworth in St. Louis 1984 on tour for the "Road Games" album. I actually
went to see him on the strength of only having heard one song from RG and
Jean-Luc Ponty's "Enigmatic Ocean". Allan made sounds that were so
incredible. I am very bumbed out that he decided to go in a more jazz
direction and put more emphasis on the synth-axe sound. I have seen
Holdsworth several more times since 1984, but they do not come even close to
the intensity of the first time that I saw him. BTW - Gary Willis (later of
Tribal Tech) was the bassist that night. And Chad Wackerman on drums.
Suffice it to say, this was the best concert that I ever saw, and possibly
will ever see.
Dirk Evans
di...@dra.com
http://dirk.dra.com
Triumvirat homepage: http://zeus.anet-stl.com/~dirk
Dave Lane wrote in message <34FD7C81...@hotmail.com>...
Geir Hongro
I've always felt more at home in alt.music.genesis.
--
Geir Hongro
***************************************** *
Burn Down the disco - hang the blessed DJ *
* *
* Morrissey 1986 *
*******************************************
Visit my homepage
Norwegian: http://home.sol.no/knhongro/Geir/
English: http://home.sol.no/knhongro/Geir/engelsk.htm
Steven Davies-Morris
Gondola Bob wrote in message ...
>I'm just loving seeing Geir, who has been trying to defend prog-rock in
>alt.music.alternative for ages, getting thoroughly reamed by
>rec.music.progressive subscribers, now that he's actually attempting to
>participate in their newsgroup.
>
>
>Eb
Ho ho ho! I'll say this for Geir. He's not afraid to stick his foot in
his
mouth and keep jamming it in there <grin> I admire that, even if he
does say some outrageous howlers!
I shall subscribe to alt.music.alternative immediately, and lend him
moral support -- and ammunition when he runs short.
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris, rmp fanatic dav...@deltanet.com
Now playing: Maxophone s/t
Steven Davies-Morris
Ken Taylor wrote in message <34fe9...@139.134.5.33>...
>
>Gondola Bob wrote in message ...
>>I'm just loving seeing Geir, who has been trying to defend prog-rock in
>>alt.music.alternative for ages, getting thoroughly reamed by
>>rec.music.progressive subscribers, now that he's actually attempting to
>>participate in their newsgroup.
>
>
>fatigues right now and preparing for an invasion :)))))
>
>Ken
And if he's a big boy he'll take it all in the spirit of fun. When I
venture
into alt.music.black.metal or alt.rock-n-roll.metal.doom I have to (a)
put on my body armour (b) check my weapons are all working, and
(c) pick my fights judiciously. <grin> It's easy enough to have opinions
and express them as dogma, seeming authoritative, until you have to
debate these things with people who REALLY know the subject. It
can be, shall we say...humbling!!! <laughs at scorched flesh memories>
In the words of American sportstalk radio host Jim Rome: *Have a take,
and don't suck*. I'll discuss most forms of music, and ALL forms of
rock music, with anyone who has a good take on the subject.
This says RUSH in the thread, so here's my Rush take for the day. Neil
Peart is a very fine *rock poet*, and a very strong willed man. As
tragic
and terrible as the loss of his daughter is, I believe that it will
propel him
to new levels of insight in his writing. A harsh bargain, indeed. As a
father I can't even begin to fathom how devastating that must be. My
thought is this: In the same way that the horrors of the trenches of WWI
took a nice young man (Wilfred Owen) and forged him into a truly great
British poet, this loss will, IMO, drive Peart to a new level in his
writing.
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
synthuser
Geir Hongro wrote:
> I've always felt more at home in alt.music.genesis.
Haha!!
Synthuser
synthuser
Steven Davies-Morris wrote:
> A harsh bargain, indeed.
Yes :(
Synthuser
Steven Davies-Morris
Neptune Salad wrote in message <6dnpak$r...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>Steven Davies-Morris <dav...@deltanet.com> wrote
>>
>> into alt.music.black.metal or alt.rock-n-roll.metal.doom I have to (a)
>> put on my body armour (b) check my weapons are all working, and
>> (c) pick my fights judiciously. <grin> It's easy enough to have
opinions
>> and express them as dogma, seeming authoritative, until you have to
>> debate these things with people who REALLY know the subject. It
>> can be, shall we say...humbling!!! <laughs at scorched flesh memories>
>>
>
>more? I'm dealing with a retarded Jim Morrison fan on a daily basis
now,
>and no matter what I do or say, he just keeps spouting off his bullshit
>about how much better he is then me because he does every drug under the
>sun and I'm too much of a moma's boy (says he). That motherfucker's
gonna
>end up forcing me to stop going to the Jewel NG.
>
>Neptune
Unfortunately there's always some cretin out there who has no capacity
for reason, and probably gets off on driving you nutz... at some point I
suggest ceasing dialog with him -- cutting you losses, so to speak --
and moving on.
Cheers
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
Neptune Salad
Paul Hinrichs
n...@more.spam (mr meany mouth) wrote:
>If Geir Hongro and Miguel Amorim were in
>a steel cage match, who would win?
All of us?
Mark Rohlf
> I'm dealing with a retarded Jim Morrison fan on a daily basis now,
> and no matter what I do or say, he just keeps spouting off his bullshit
> about how much better he is then me
That wouldn't be ... uhhhhh...... Frank ... would it :):):):)
mr
--
http://www.media-net.net/ftpclients/annie/flatlander/
remove the SPAMBUSTER to reply
-------------------------------
| If thou wanst blood |
| may thoust covet bear fruit |
| --Shakespear does AC/DC |
-------------------------------
M.A. ARINO CLARKE
Geir Hongro <geir...@online.no> writes:
> >BTW, are you going to go to see Yes in their current tour,
> >Geir?
> I don't think so. They've sounded way too much like Rush since
>> around 1980. Yes ceased to make good music around the turn of the
> 70/80s decade, and it seems that new guitar and keyboard
> technology have destroyed them forever.
> Another thing: Wakeman isn't in the group anymore, is he? Yes
> without Wakeman is not the Yes I know and love!
Well, too bad for you that you don't like Relayer.
Wakeman was in the group not too long ago, and his departure was not so
mourned because lately he wasn't playing with a lot of intention , just
exercising his fingers (or so they say).
Geir Hongro
EFY...@leeds.ac.uk (M.A. ARINO CLARKE) wrote:
>Well, too bad for you that you don't like Relayer.
Patrick Moraz was a better keyboard player than Tony Kaye, still
not the same as Rick Wakeman.
"Relayer" was recorded during their creative mid-70s peak. I
definitely like the album, although it is my least favourite album
out of their 1972-78 Golden Age work, partly because of Wakeman
lacking but more because it is a bit too much fusion, and there
could have been more mood music. I love "To Be Over" and the end
part of "Gates Of Delirium" though.
(Several newsgroups removed. Thought of adding alt.music.yes, but
dropped it since this is just part of a thread and becomes way out
of context for that group's readers.)
J. Mcglinchey
On 6 Mar 1998, Geir Hongro wrote:
> EFY...@leeds.ac.uk (M.A. ARINO CLARKE) wrote:
>
> >Well, too bad for you that you don't like Relayer.
>
> Patrick Moraz was a better keyboard player than Tony Kaye, still
> not the same as Rick Wakeman.
More proof that you are delightfully deluded (the Moraz < Wakeman part),
Geir. :) Moraz is more versatile than Wakeman, both in what he can
play and in what influence shows itself in his music. He plays more
subtly than Wakeman, takes way more chances, and isn't as much of a
one-trick pony ("Look at me! My right hand can play very fast!"). Just
look at their solo work (say, FLAGS, WINDOWS OF TIME, or LIVE AT
PRINCETON versus any of Uncle Ricky's 60 million releases). For the most
part, it's not even a contest.
Joe M.
U of Washington
Steven Davies-Morris
J. Mcglinchey wrote in message ...
Agreed! As anyone who saw Patrick Moraz and Ronnie Ciago's recent
intimate clinic at LA Harbor College can attest. I was just listening to
the Roosevelt Stadium *Relayer* show (thanks Eddie!) and I was blown
away by the intensity of the band's performance, and especially the
synth work of Moraz. His interplay with Howe was dazzling.
I will agree with Geir that Moraz is much more of a *fusion* keys player
than RW. I like that; it's less limiting in the sources one draws from.
A good example of another superb *fusion* keys player would be Chick
Corea, particularly his Return To Forever work in the mid 70s with
Lenny White, Stanley Clarke and Al Di Meola, and his 90s work with
the Electrick Band.
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
Adam Daudrich
I agree, Wakeman is the showman, Moraz is the intellectual. But Wakeman was
more creative. Flashiness, creativity, that's what a concert beckons. You
can't compare Chick Corea to either of them because he is in a totally
different domain of music. Chick Corea is a jazz man and he thinks like a
jazz man. Yes need classically trained musicians to fulfill the keyboard role
that Wakeman conceived in Fragile.
M.A. ARINO CLARKE
In article <35065ecc...@news.newsguy.com>, n...@more.spam (mr meany mouth) wrote:
>
>If Geir Hongro and Miguel Amorim were in
>a steel cage match, who would win?
>
Who is Miguel Amorim?
Steven Sullivan
Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
: I agree, Wakeman is the showman, Moraz is the intellectual.
? Moraz was every bit the showman (and showoff) Wakeman was. For
example, PM brought (and played) more keyboards with him on his tours with
Yes than RW ever did. And though I don't think he ever went the full-cape
route, he wasn't exactly subdued onstage.
:But Wakeman was
: more creative. Flashiness, creativity, that's what a concert beckons.
How did you glean this? Moraz had more chops and *far* more improvisatory
skill than RW, and as a composer is easily RW's equal. *And* he knew
flash.
: You
: can't compare Chick Corea to either of them because he is in a totally
: different domain of music. Chick Corea is a jazz man and he thinks like a
: jazz man. Yes need classically trained musicians to fulfill the keyboard role
: that Wakeman conceived in Fragile.
Musically, PM is far closer to Corea than Wakeman. And he is classically
trained, as was Corea, IIRC.
Adam Daudrich
It depends on what your definition of clasically trained is. Wakeman has a endless
resevoir of chops, I wouldn't say that Moraz's are better. Listen to Eight Wives of
Henry V. Wakeman harmonizes his mellotron accompaniaments better with Yes than
Moraz. I believe he is more creative. Moraz's synth choice on Relayer is corny at
times.
Steven Sullivan
Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
: It depends on what your definition of clasically trained is. Wakeman has a endless
: resevoir of chops,
He does? Based on the evidence of concert tapes and solo albums, his
repertoire of riffs seems rather limited.
: I wouldn't say that Moraz's are better. Listen to Eight Wives of
: Henry V. Wakeman harmonizes his mellotron accompaniaments better with Yes than
: Moraz. I believe he is more creative. Moraz's synth choice on Relayer is corny at
: times.
LOL. One word: birotron.
Nic Caciappo
You forgot another: Orchestron.
How 'bout "pitch bending" on And You And I... it sounded terrible.
Moraz's pitch bending worked great for *him*, like on "i" and "Relayer",
but on other material it sounded out of place. His pitch bending was
enough to choke Phil Niekro!
Nic
laurie dorris
Steven Sullivan
Nic Caciappo (nic...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: Steven Sullivan wrote:
: >
: > Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
: > : It depends on what your definition of clasically trained is. Wakeman has a endless
: > : resevoir of chops,
: >
: > He does? Based on the evidence of concert tapes and solo albums, his
: > repertoire of riffs seems rather limited.
: >
: > : I wouldn't say that Moraz's are better. Listen to Eight Wives of
: > : Henry V. Wakeman harmonizes his mellotron accompaniaments better with Yes than
: > : Moraz. I believe he is more creative. Moraz's synth choice on Relayer is corny at
: > : times.
: >
: > LOL. One word: birotron.
: You forgot another: Orchestron.
: How 'bout "pitch bending" on And You And I... it sounded terrible.
YMMV.
: Moraz's pitch bending worked great for *him*, like on "i" and "Relayer",
: but on other material it sounded out of place. His pitch bending was
: enough to choke Phil Niekro!
Yet Moraz did Wakeman's big Moog setpiece in Close to the Edge better than
RW ever has -- pitchbend and all. And his 'solo' spots in the other songs
(e.g. the Hammond jam in Roundabout) didn't sound the same from show to
show (or even year to year), as Wakeman's do. THat's called taking risks,
something RW always seemed rather averse to.
William Stone
In <6ds34d$sf...@beaker.nit.gwu.edu> sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
(Steven Sullivan) writes:
>
>Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
>: I agree, Wakeman is the showman, Moraz is the intellectual.
Disagree totally. I was lucky enough to see PM with Yes in 75 and 76
(?). The 75 show was the single finest concert I've ever seen. PM did
a synth bit in the middle of Ritual that sounded like dinosaurs
fighting, among other things. Loads of fun. A _much_ flashier
technician than Wakeman. Can you imagine Wakeman pulling off the
hyper-aggressive synth solo on Sound Chaser? No chance...
Wylie
Bananamoon
Nic Caciappo
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Yet Moraz did Wakeman's big Moog setpiece in Close to the Edge better than
> RW ever has -- pitchbend and all.
Go ahead, keep telling your self that Steven. LOL!
And his 'solo' spots in the other songs
> (e.g. the Hammond jam in Roundabout) didn't sound the same from show to
> show (or even year to year), as Wakeman's do.
Moraz's Roundabout solo was a mesh.
THat's called taking risks,
> something RW always seemed rather averse to.
I like hearing what I expect to hear at a concert. When the organ solo
at the end of CttE is tinkered with then that disapoints me, makes me
wonder if the keyboardist inheriting the spot can do right? That's a
risk I don't really wish to spend my money on. Although I will say Moraz
played Ritual better than he played on CttE, AYaI or Roundabout. That
pitch bending really bugged me.
Nic
Nic Caciappo
William Stone wrote:
I was lucky enough to see PM with Yes in 75 and 76
> (?). The 75 show was the single finest concert I've ever seen. PM did
> a synth bit in the middle of Ritual that sounded like dinosaurs
> fighting, among other things. Loads of fun. A _much_ flashier
> technician than Wakeman. Can you imagine Wakeman pulling off the
> hyper-aggressive synth solo on Sound Chaser? No chance...
I agree with you... Sound Chaser isn't Wakeman's style. What Moraz did
on Relayer is a big reason why it is in my top two or three favorite Yes
albums.
Nic
Adam Daudrich
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
> : It depends on what your definition of clasically trained is. Wakeman has a endless
> : resevoir of chops,
>
> He does? Based on the evidence of concert tapes and solo albums, his
> repertoire of riffs seems rather limited.
>
> : I wouldn't say that Moraz's are better. Listen to Eight Wives of
> : Henry V. Wakeman harmonizes his mellotron accompaniaments better with Yes than
> : Moraz. I believe he is more creative. Moraz's synth choice on Relayer is corny at
> : times.
>
> LOL. One word: birotron.
Not familiar with this term..... explanation?
Adam Daudrich
William Stone wrote:
> In <6ds34d$sf...@beaker.nit.gwu.edu> sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
> (Steven Sullivan) writes:
> >
> >Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
> >: I agree, Wakeman is the showman, Moraz is the intellectual.
>
> Disagree totally. I was lucky enough to see PM with Yes in 75 and 76
> (?). The 75 show was the single finest concert I've ever seen. PM did
> a synth bit in the middle of Ritual that sounded like dinosaurs
> fighting, among other things. Loads of fun. A _much_ flashier
> technician than Wakeman. Can you imagine Wakeman pulling off the
> hyper-aggressive synth solo on Sound Chaser? No chance...
>
> He could do it, he just doesn't use that type of synth.
>
J. Mcglinchey
On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Adam Daudrich wrote:
> >
> > LOL. One word: birotron.
>
> Not familiar with this term..... explanation?
A birotron was a mercifully short-lived adaptation of the mellotron.
Not sure of the details of how it worked, though. I think it used 8-track
tapes or something, as the sampling device. Check out Yes' TORMATO (1978) for
further reference (I think it's the only album with a "birotron" on it).
Mike Dickson
In article <350214...@earthlink.net> nic...@earthlink.net wrote...
> > LOL. One word: birotron.
>
> You forgot another: Orchestron.
He forgot another - bankruptcy. :-)
Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Musselburgh, Scotland
fax 0131-271-1551 - Columnated Ruins Domino - Mellotron M400 #996
For the King Crimson mailing list send e-mail to admin @ elephant-talk.com
Loznik
On Sun, 08 Mar 1998 09:35:42 -0800, Nic Caciappo
<nic...@earthlink.net> flew in the face of logic with:
>
>I like hearing what I expect to hear at a concert. When the organ solo
>at the end of CttE is tinkered with then that disapoints me, makes me
>wonder if the keyboardist inheriting the spot can do right? That's a
>risk I don't really wish to spend my money on. Although I will say Moraz
>played Ritual better than he played on CttE, AYaI or Roundabout. That
>pitch bending really bugged me.
>
>Nic
Pitch-blende would bug the hell out of me too, Nic. Gotta be bad for
your health ....... ={:-(>
Loznik
It's a blimp, Frank, it's a blimp, Frank!
Georyn
Steven Sullivan wrote:
>> : Moraz. I believe he is more creative. Moraz's synth choice on Relayer is
>corny at
>> : times.
>>
>> LOL. One word: birotron.
One more word: Polymoog. Ick. Every time I listen to the solo on "Don't
Kill The Whale", I feel seasick. ;-{)>
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
NOTE: The above screen name is for newsgroup postings only. For E-mail, send
to: Prog...@aol.com. Do NOT hit reply!
"Parece cosa de maligno. Los pianos no estallan por casualidad." --Gabriel
Garcia Marquez
N.P.:"T o w a r d T h e S u n" - D r u i d
Steven Sullivan
Nic Caciappo (nic...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: Steven Sullivan wrote:
: > Yet Moraz did Wakeman's big Moog setpiece in Close to the Edge better than
: > RW ever has -- pitchbend and all.
: Go ahead, keep telling your self that Steven. LOL!
Meanwhile, Nic will tell us how Wakeman's return will save Yes. lol.
: And his 'solo' spots in the other songs
: > (e.g. the Hammond jam in Roundabout) didn't sound the same from show to
: > show (or even year to year), as Wakeman's do.
: Moraz's Roundabout solo was a mesh.
It was different on every tape I've heard; some are better than others,
unlike Wakeman, who at msot changed a scale here or there.
: THat's called taking risks,
: > something RW always seemed rather averse to.
: I like hearing what I expect to hear at a concert.
Why not jsut stay home and listen to the studio albums then? And have you
ever considered that sometimes change can be an *improvement*?
Neptune Salad
Mark Rohlf <ro...@SPAMBUSTERusa.net> wrote in article
<3500100C...@SPAMBUSTERusa.net>...
> > I'm dealing with a retarded Jim Morrison fan on a daily basis now,
> > and no matter what I do or say, he just keeps spouting off his
bullshit
> > about how much better he is then me
>
> That wouldn't be ... uhhhhh...... Frank ... would it :):):):)
>
The guy's screen name is Ruddy M.
> -------------------------------
> | If thou wanst blood |
> | may thoust covet bear fruit |
> | --Shakespear does AC/DC |
> -------------------------------
Sweet as hell!
Nep
Neptune Salad
Steven Davies-Morris <dav...@deltanet.com> wrote
> Unfortunately there's always some cretin out there who has no capacity
> for reason, and probably gets off on driving you nutz... at some point I
> suggest ceasing dialog with him -- cutting you losses, so to speak --
> and moving on.
>
I had considered that just a minute before delivering the coup-de-gracie on
him.
He hasn't posted since. I didn't think it possible to flame someone to
DEATH, but apparently...
Although, now I have some other cretin who sounds like he might be this
guy's friend posting his 5th grade intelligence at him.
Nep
Neptune Salad
mr meany mouth <n...@more.spam> wrote
> That, my friend, is what killfiles are
> made for.
>
But I can't stop his posts.
Nep
Geir Hongro
"Steven Davies-Morris" <dav...@deltanet.com> wrote:
>J. Mcglinchey wrote in message ...
>>On 6 Mar 1998, Geir Hongro wrote:
>>
>>> EFY...@leeds.ac.uk (M.A. ARINO CLARKE) wrote:
>>>
>>> >Well, too bad for you that you don't like Relayer.
>>>
>>> Patrick Moraz was a better keyboard player than Tony Kaye, still
>>> not the same as Rick Wakeman.
>>
>>More proof that you are delightfully deluded (the Moraz < Wakeman part),
>>Geir. :) Moraz is more versatile than Wakeman, both in what he can
>>play and in what influence shows itself in his music. He plays more
>>subtly than Wakeman, takes way more chances, and isn't as much of a
>>one-trick pony ("Look at me! My right hand can play very fast!"). Just
>>look at their solo work (say, FLAGS, WINDOWS OF TIME, or LIVE AT
>>PRINCETON versus any of Uncle Ricky's 60 million releases). For the most
>>part, it's not even a contest.
>>
>>
>>U of Washington
>
>
>intimate clinic at LA Harbor College can attest. I was just listening to
>the Roosevelt Stadium *Relayer* show (thanks Eddie!) and I was blown
>away by the intensity of the band's performance, and especially the
>synth work of Moraz. His interplay with Howe was dazzling.
>
>I will agree with Geir that Moraz is much more of a *fusion* keys player
>than RW. I like that
Well, I don't. I prefer the way Wakeman is rather inspired by 19th
century classical music instead. European music is sadly too often
dismissed when compared to American music.
Jeremy S.
>Nic Caciappo <nic...@earthlink.net> writes: > Steven Sullivan wrote:
>> >
>> > Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
>> > : It depends on what your definition of clasically trained is. Wakeman has a endless
>> > : resevoir of chops,
>> >
>> > He does? Based on the evidence of concert tapes and solo albums, his
>> > repertoire of riffs seems rather limited.
>> >
>> > : I wouldn't say that Moraz's are better. Listen to Eight Wives of
>> > : Henry V. Wakeman harmonizes his mellotron accompaniaments better with Yes than
>> > : times.
>> >
>> > LOL. One word: birotron.
>>
>>
>> How 'bout "pitch bending" on And You And I... it sounded terrible.
>> but on other material it sounded out of place. His pitch bending was
>> enough to choke Phil Niekro!
Actually, I thought Moraz's soloing on "&U&I" worked well. It was
contrary to what RW had done with the song, but still complemented it
well. However I don't think his playing was so hot on other pieces, such
as "CttE."
--Jeremy
Jeremy S.
In article <3502D6...@earthlink.net>,
Nic Caciappo <nic...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Steven Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Yet Moraz did Wakeman's big Moog setpiece in Close to the Edge better than
>> RW ever has -- pitchbend and all.
>
>Go ahead, keep telling your self that Steven. LOL!
>
>> (e.g. the Hammond jam in Roundabout) didn't sound the same from show to
>> show (or even year to year), as Wakeman's do.
>
>Moraz's Roundabout solo was a mesh.
>
>> something RW always seemed rather averse to.
>
>I like hearing what I expect to hear at a concert.
So if someone modifies a song just a little, you're disappointed? Then
why should Yes botherr to change sopngs live at all? Better yet, why
should Yes play live at all, when they won't meet up to your
"expectations" of them playing live.
> When the organ solo
>at the end of CttE is tinkered with then that disapoints me, makes me
>wonder if the keyboardist inheriting the spot can do right?
A "solo" is not always a sturctured, note-for-note performance. If Yes
was leaning more towards fusion and jazz, ad-libbing would obviously be
incoporated some.
> That's a
>risk I don't really wish to spend my money on. Although I will say Moraz
>played Ritual better than he played on CttE, AYaI or Roundabout. That
>pitch bending really bugged me.
So sorry to hear that.
Steven Davies-Morris
J. Mcglinchey wrote in message ...
>
>> If Moraz was soooo good - how come when touring the band consistently
>
>> How come he didn't really contribute to Relayer as a composer? Yes, I
>> know he joined the band after the songs were already composed but he
>> didn't contribute much of anything to Yes repetoir except what any other
>> studio musician would have.
>
>But you could cite the same criticism (generally speaking) with Wakeman
>in Yes, who never *really* contributed a lot from a writing perspective to
>the band either and seemed to be mostly on board for his playing. Heck,
>even the most memorable keyboard theme on TALES was (supposedly) written
>by the drummer. In fact, also from a general perspective, it seems there
>is somewhat of a history of the "distanced keyboardist" with this band,
>for all three of the players mentioned thus far. From a writing
>perspective, maybe Moraz didn't do a lot for RELAYER, but from a playing
>perspective, he's all over that album, and definately brought something to
>the band (you can say the same for Rick at his best). On the other hand,
>look at something like Big Generator- Tony Kaye has writing credits galore
>on there, but none of his performances on that one are particularly
>memorable.
>
>Joe M.
>U of Washington
>
Great post!!! Moraz kicks major booty on *Relayer*. I loved the Jan
Hammer-
esque aggressive fusion synths, especially on *Gates Of Delirium*. I enjoy
all phases of Yes, but I have to say that *Relayer* really does it for me.
Over
the last three days I've listened 4 times to the Roosevelt NJ 76 *Relayer*
tour
gig. On it Moraz is clearly on fire, and the band overall delivers a
powerful
performance. Some of the interplay between Moraz and Howe is stunning,
and the keys are not mixed far down, as some have reported Moraz being
when they saw Yes for *Relayer*. I wish they'd done one more studio album
with Moraz, so we could better judge his legacy with Yes. Still, since all
we
have is *Relayer* and a couple of astonishing performance boots, I guess
we'll never be sure just where they might have gone had he stayed on board.
Moraz is *the bomb*, IMO!
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
Steven Davies-Morris
Steven Sullivan wrote in message <6e28u8$3f...@beaker.nit.gwu.edu>...
>Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
>: So basically, we've hit full circle with this thread. We've concluded
that Moraz
>: is the intellectual, introspective,etc... Wakeman is the showoff,
arpeggiated
>: everything possible, extravaganza for the senses, which is what I said at
the
>: beginning!!!!
>
>
>Actually, all we're saying is that Moraz is the better musician. I
>wouldn't call either of them an 'intellectual', a la Keith Jarrett or
>Fripp.
HAHAHAHAHAHA! LOL! Let's hope and pray that neither of them ever
develops into that kind of intellectual... Wakeman has always struck me
as a very jovial *lad* -- someone who'd make a good next door neighbour.
You'd invite him over to watch *Monday Night Football* or *Match Of The
Day* and sink a couple of cold ones. Moraz in person comes across as
a very energetic charismatic man when he talks publicly, but he doesn't
volunteer much privately -- you've got to draw him out.
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
Steven Davies-Morris
Adam Daudrich wrote in message <35046B9B...@sympatico.ca>...
Geir Hongro wrote:
"Vince S." <vsca...@neo.lrun.com> wrote:
>I'll have to agree with that. Of all the keyboard players who have
worked
>in Yes, Patrick is probably closest to having the skill, artistry,
and
>knowledge of Chick Corea.
And so what?
Chick Corea is a jazz musician. Yes are a symphonic rock band.
My point exactly!Adam
Have either one of you listened to *Romantic Warrior* by Return To
Forever? That is a very symphonic progressive album with jazz fusion
flourishes that touches base with Zappa, Yes, Mahavishnu, Gentle Giant
without abanding the jazz-rock roots of RTF. Earlier works of RTF with
bothe Di Meola and Bill Connors on guitar are also very *prog-rocking*
fusion, though not as *symphonic*. Furthermore the recent 4 albums by
Corea's Electrik Band are clearly progressive rock-jazz fusion, with the
rock being the primary element and jazz being the secondary element. He
keeps his *jazz* compositions for his Acoustik Band outings.
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
BobM
Steven Sullivan wrote:
>
> Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
> : It depends on what your definition of clasically trained is. Wakeman has a endless
> : resevoir of chops,
>
> He does? Based on the evidence of concert tapes and solo albums, his
> repertoire of riffs seems rather limited.
>
> : I wouldn't say that Moraz's are better. Listen to Eight Wives of
> : Henry V. Wakeman harmonizes his mellotron accompaniaments better with Yes than
> : Moraz. I believe he is more creative. Moraz's synth choice on Relayer is corny at
> : times.
>
picked up the vast majority of keyboard parts and played them on the
guiter? How come he left after 1 album? How come Wakeman came back?
How come he didn't really contribute to Relayer as a composer? Yes, I
know he joined the band after the songs were already composed but he
didn't contribute much of anything to Yes repetoir except what any other
studio musician would have.
Bob
J. Mcglinchey
On 8 Mar 1998, Geir Hongro wrote:
> >I will agree with Geir that Moraz is much more of a *fusion* keys player
> >than RW. I like that
>
> Well, I don't. I prefer the way Wakeman is rather inspired by 19th
> century classical music instead. European music is sadly too often
Again, anyone who's heard Moraz' solo output (e.g. "Initiation",
"Lost Way", "Modular Symphony", "Kaaru", "Festival", to name just a
few songs) knows that he can do the traditional European classical music
thing at least as well as Wakeman. It's just that that's not the only ace
up his sleeve.
J. Mcglinchey
On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, BobM wrote:
> If Moraz was soooo good - how come when touring the band consistently
> How come he didn't really contribute to Relayer as a composer? Yes, I
> know he joined the band after the songs were already composed but he
> didn't contribute much of anything to Yes repetoir except what any other
> studio musician would have.
But you could cite the same criticism (generally speaking) with Wakeman
in Yes, who never *really* contributed a lot from a writing perspective to
the band either and seemed to be mostly on board for his playing. Heck,
even the most memorable keyboard theme on TALES was (supposedly) written
by the drummer. In fact, also from a general perspective, it seems there
is somewhat of a history of the "distanced keyboardist" with this band,
for all three of the players mentioned thus far. From a writing
perspective, maybe Moraz didn't do a lot for RELAYER, but from a playing
perspective, he's all over that album, and definately brought something to
the band (you can say the same for Rick at his best). On the other hand,
look at something like Big Generator- Tony Kaye has writing credits galore
on there, but none of his performances on that one are particularly
memorable.
Joe M.
U of Washington
Simon Barrow
Adam:
<< Yes need classically trained musicians to fulfill the keyboard role
that Wakeman conceived in Fragile. >>
Why? The great man himself couldn't hack it and dropped out of
college....
Simon
"If you never say 'no', what is your 'Yes' really worth?" (Anon)
Mike Dickson
In article <3502EA07...@sympatico.ca> daud...@sympatico.ca wrote...
> > LOL. One word: birotron.
> Not familiar with this term..... explanation?
Like a Mellotron, but instead used constantly spooling cartridges as
against strips of tape.
Advantage - (1) Can play chords of indefinite length, as against the
Mellotron which is limited to eight seconds play time before the tape
halts.
Disadvantages - (1) the cartridges wear out quickly because they are
always in contact with the playback head, (2) since they are on loops
there is no envelope on the sound and, as such, sounds like a bag of
shite, (3) the recordings themselves are appalling.
Wakeman sunk a fortune into these machines and lost it all. There were
only about twelve ever made. A mate of mine once (way back) got one on
approval (a sort of 'use of return' basis) and returned it in a week
because it sounded awful.
Vince S.
> : You
> : can't compare Chick Corea to either of them because he is in a totally
> : different domain of music. Chick Corea is a jazz man and he thinks like a
> : jazz man. Yes need classically trained musicians to fulfill the keyboard
role
> : that Wakeman conceived in Fragile.
>
> Musically, PM is far closer to Corea than Wakeman. And he is classically
> trained, as was Corea, IIRC.
>
Response:
I'll have to agree with that. Of all the keyboard players who have worked
in Yes, Patrick is probably closest to having the skill, artistry, and
knowledge of Chick Corea. Wakeman (while very good in his own right), is
more of a stylist. Put in the wrong musical enviroment, Rick's shortcomings
would shine through. Musicians like Patrick and Chick, on the other hand,
could probably do ANY gig justice.
Vince
Adam Daudrich
I don't know if you're aware of this but there's an album called Close to the
Edge, in which Wakeman wrote a lot of the material.
Adam Daudrich
BobM wrote:
> Steven Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
> > : It depends on what your definition of clasically trained is. Wakeman has a endless
> > : resevoir of chops,
> >
> > He does? Based on the evidence of concert tapes and solo albums, his
> > repertoire of riffs seems rather limited.
> >
> > : I wouldn't say that Moraz's are better. Listen to Eight Wives of
> > : Henry V. Wakeman harmonizes his mellotron accompaniaments better with Yes than
> > : Moraz. I believe he is more creative. Moraz's synth choice on Relayer is corny at
> > : times.
> >
> If Moraz was soooo good - how come when touring the band consistently
> reduced his volume compared to the rest of the band? How come Steve Howe
> picked up the vast majority of keyboard parts and played them on the
> guiter? How come he left after 1 album? How come Wakeman came back?
> How come he didn't really contribute to Relayer as a composer? Yes, I
> know he joined the band after the songs were already composed but he
> didn't contribute much of anything to Yes repetoir except what any other
> studio musician would have.
>
> Bob
This is true, Wakeman did much more composing.....
Adam Daudrich
Simon Barrow wrote:
> Adam:
>
> << Yes need classically trained musicians to fulfill the keyboard role
> that Wakeman conceived in Fragile. >>
>
> Why? The great man himself couldn't hack it and dropped out of
> college....
> Simon
> "If you never say 'no', what is your 'Yes' really worth?" (Anon)
Which great man?
Adam Daudrich
Geir Hongro
"Vince S." <vsca...@neo.lrun.com> wrote:
>I'll have to agree with that. Of all the keyboard players who have worked
>in Yes, Patrick is probably closest to having the skill, artistry, and
>knowledge of Chick Corea.
And so what?
Chick Corea is a jazz musician. Yes are a symphonic rock band.
Adam Daudrich
Geir Hongro wrote:
"Vince S." <vsca...@neo.lrun.com> wrote:>I'll have to agree with that. Of all the keyboard players who have worked
>in Yes, Patrick is probably closest to having the skill, artistry, and
>knowledge of Chick Corea.And so what?
Chick Corea is a jazz musician. Yes are a symphonic rock band.
My point exactly!Adam
J. Mcglinchey
On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Adam Daudrich wrote:
> I don't know if you're aware of this but there's an album called Close to the
> Edge, in which Wakeman wrote a lot of the material.
I'm aware of *one* song (roughly comprising about 25-30% of that album
lengthwise) on Close to the Edge with which Wakeman is credited in
helping write, and what portion of that particular 25-30% is
anybody's guess.
Steven Davies-Morris
Adam Daudrich wrote in message <3505CB4C...@sympatico.ca>...
>
>
>Steven Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Steven Davies-Morris (dav...@deltanet.com) wrote:
>> : Adam Daudrich wrote in message <35046B9B...@sympatico.ca>...
>>
>> : Geir Hongro wrote:
>>
>
>Don't be presumptuous, I know what I am talking about. I have Hymn of the
Seventh
>galaxy, Inner Mounting Flame, and a lot more traditional stuff. I know
about jazz
>becuase I love it. I know how jazz works, and I will get into the details
if
>necessary. What I'm saying is that, you wouldn't put Chick Corea into the
YES
>idiom because he'd probably jazz it up far too much for Howe and Squire to
>handle. And if you did he would probably quit due to dissatisfaction and
>restlessness.
>Adam
>
Now who's being presumptious, Adam? I merely asked if either you or Geir
had listened to *Romatic Warrior* because the pair of you, in conjunction,
made very glib assertions about who and what Corea and Yes are. Now
you make the suggestion that had one added Corea to Yes, Howe and Squire
couldn't have handled it. At what level could they not have handled it?
You
surely can't be inferring that they lack the technical skills to play with
Chick
Corea. Perhaps the Chris Squire of today might not want to play that kind
of progressive jazz-rock fusion that Yes touched upon with *Relayer*, but I
think that it's not so far fetched an idea when you put *Relayer* alongside
*Romantic Warrior*. Which is the more symphonic prog-rock album? *RM*
by quite a big. Which is most fusionesque? *Relayer*. Which is the most
jazzy? IMO, *RW*, due to the rythmic aspects brought by Clarke and White.
I'd call that an intresting cross-over effect taking place by 2 major bands.
Wouldn't you?
I'm intrigued by your assertion that Corea would *jazz it up* too much. I
have
a double LP by Corea from 1976 called *My Spanish Heart*. There's very
little on that album that I would call *jazz*. What most of it is, IMO, is
a
flamenco/symphonic prog/fusion hybrid; perhaps what Carmen might have
aspired to had they lasted longer, had bigger chops, and had they been
infused with some jazzier elements. Side 4, in particlular, the 4 part
suite
called *Spanish Fantasy* is a perfect amalgamation of this style. I believe
that Corea can shape his performace to the needs of the music, and that your
stated opinion doesn't do him justice. Perhaps you'd care to expand on it,
in case I've misunderstood what you meant.
Since you profess to have a lot of knowledge about jazz, tell me more. I
have
a large jazz library myself, though I must admit to not *knowing how it
works*.
My first wife was a jazz singer, very much in the mold of Flora Purim, so I
heard tons of jazz while she was learning material, particlularly the *RTF*
material with Purim and Gayle Moran. I'm always willing to be enlightened
by
someone who knows more than I do...and since you've offered, feel free to
post
an education here for me and others like me who are merely listeners, not
students, of the genre.
BTW, Adam, on a personal note, nobody said you didn't know what you were
talking about. Don't be so damn defensive when your posts draw a little
fire.
I've noticed this about you from reading your posts over the last few
months.
While you often have very interesting things to say, you have this annoying
habit of snapping back at people like a hyperactive poodle, whenever you
believe you're being criticized. As I would say to my 4 year old son
Trevor...
don't use that tone of voice with me, it's not necessary... <grin>
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
Steven Davies-Morris
Simon Barrow wrote in message ...
>If I tell you where I live, will you promise *never* to move in next
>door? Thanks. :)
>Simon
Deal. As long as you promise to get a sense of humour <grin> But if
we do wind up as next door neigbours, I'll only invite you over to watch
5 day test matches. We can play an endless tape loop of *Red* during
the lunch and tea breaks. And I won't offer you a *cold one*, either <grin>
It's a big planet...even big enough for Robert Fripp <big grin> and his
massive intellect <bigger grin>
I've had the pleasure of being *audiented* and *dissertationized* by the CK,
and being berated by him for politely asking him after a concert to sign a
copy of *Red* that had been signed by WB and JW. I guess the mistake
I made was saying that I'd like to get David Cross' signature on it as
well...
when Isaid that he thrust it back in my hand and refused to sign.
An astonishing musical talent, but that meeting left me with a bitter taste
in my mouth. I hope he'd just had a crummy dinner, or didn't get his nap,
but one hears so many of these stories that he does become and easy
target for humour.
My younger brother Gareth had a somewhat similar experience with Fripp
when he went to interview him several years ago for a university news-
paper. After the interview was over (Fripp would answer no questions, but
issued a 10 minute *manifesto*...) Gareth asked him if he would sign his
copy of *Larks' Tongues* that Wetton and Cross had signed. He was told
no and asked to leave immediately.
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
Steven Sullivan
Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
: So basically, we've hit full circle with this thread. We've concluded that Moraz
: is the intellectual, introspective,etc... Wakeman is the showoff, arpeggiated
: everything possible, extravaganza for the senses, which is what I said at the
: beginning!!!!
Steven Sullivan
@o.online.no> <m2n2f6j...@armitage.lnet> <1998Mar6.2...@leeds.ac.uk> <6dq176$can$5...@news1.sol.no> <Pine.A41.3.96a.98030...@dante18.u.washington.edu> <6dr46d$i07$1...@news01.deltanet.com> <35016875.30768DE 7...@sympatico.ca> <6ds34d$
sf...@beaker.nit.gwu.edu> <NEWTNews.8894739...@oemcomputer.neo.lrun.com> <6e1pms$qj2$1...@news1.sol.no>
Distribution:
Geir Hongro (geir...@online.no) wrote:
: "Vince S." <vsca...@neo.lrun.com> wrote:
: >I'll have to agree with that. Of all the keyboard players who have worked
: >in Yes, Patrick is probably closest to having the skill, artistry, and
: >knowledge of Chick Corea.
: And so what?
: Chick Corea is a jazz musician. Yes are a symphonic rock band.
And gosh, I guess the twain must never meet, or 'melody' might suffer.
Steven Sullivan
<35019947...@sympatico.ca> <6dsl2j$sf...@beaker.nit.gwu.edu>
<3503FD...@jpmorgan.com> <Pine.A41.3.96a.98030...@dante24.u.washington.edu> <35045FD0...@sympatico.ca> <Pine.A41.3.96a.98030...@dante23.u.was
hington.edu>
Distribution:
J. Mcglinchey (joe...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
We can lay at least one misocnception to rest: at least some of the
keyboard part of 'I Get uP I Get Down' -- was written by Steve Howe,
originally for guitar. He relates as much in one of the recent Yes
interviews.
Steven Sullivan
Steven Davies-Morris (dav...@deltanet.com) wrote:
: Steven Sullivan wrote in message <6e28u8$3f...@beaker.nit.gwu.edu>...
: HAHAHAHAHAHA! LOL! Let's hope and pray that neither of them ever
: develops into that kind of intellectual...
One that cares deeply about the music they make, is articulate to a fault,
opinionated to same, and always keeps you guessing? Yeah, god forbid
anyone is Yes should be like that.
: Wakeman has always struck me
: as a very jovial *lad* -- someone who'd make a good next door neighbour.
: You'd invite him over to watch *Monday Night Football* or *Match Of The
: Day* and sink a couple of cold ones.
And this has exactly what to do with making good music? BEethoven, from
what I hear, wasn't exactly the social butterfly.
: Moraz in person comes across as
: a very energetic charismatic man when he talks publicly, but he doesn't
: volunteer much privately -- you've got to draw him out.
Again, this is relevant how...? Trevor Rabin seems like a nice enough
chap. Too bad about that music, though....
Steven Sullivan
Steven Davies-Morris (dav...@deltanet.com) wrote:
: Adam Daudrich wrote in message <35046B9B...@sympatico.ca>...
: Geir Hongro wrote:
: "Vince S." <vsca...@neo.lrun.com> wrote:
: >I'll have to agree with that. Of all the keyboard players who have
: worked
: >in Yes, Patrick is probably closest to having the skill, artistry,
: and
: >knowledge of Chick Corea.
: And so what?
: Chick Corea is a jazz musician. Yes are a symphonic rock band.
: My point exactly!Adam
: Have either one of you listened to *Romantic Warrior* by Return To
: Forever? That is a very symphonic progressive album with jazz fusion
: flourishes that touches base with Zappa, Yes, Mahavishnu, Gentle Giant
: without abanding the jazz-rock roots of RTF. Earlier works of RTF with
: bothe Di Meola and Bill Connors on guitar are also very *prog-rocking*
: fusion, though not as *symphonic*. Furthermore the recent 4 albums by
: Corea's Electrik Band are clearly progressive rock-jazz fusion, with the
: rock being the primary element and jazz being the secondary element. He
: keeps his *jazz* compositions for his Acoustik Band outings.
Not to mention that John McLaughlin put out a Mahavishnu album with
'symphonic' orchestral accompaniment in the 70's ("Apocalypse"). I don't
think Geir or Adam really know what they're talking about, but I'll
forgive them since I suspect between them their combined age is barely
mine.
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk
>> If Moraz was soooo good - how come when touring the band consistently
>
>> know he joined the band after the songs were already composed but he
>> didn't contribute much of anything to Yes repetoir except what any other
>> studio musician would have.
Sorry to come in at a late stage, but I haven't seen any challenge to this
statement that Moraz didn't contribute to Relayer as a composer. Have a listen
to "Sound Chaser"; it is quite clear that Moraz' style is the overwhelmingly
predominant one on that piece. Perhaps he didn't write any of the actual
themes, but in my book arrangement is just as important to the feel of a
piece.
Clive Backham
Capita Business Services Ltd. (+44) 1442 872121
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk
Geir Hongro
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk wrote:
>>> If Moraz was soooo good - how come when touring the band consistently
>>
>>> How come he didn't really contribute to Relayer as a composer? Yes, I
>>> know he joined the band after the songs were already composed but he
>>> didn't contribute much of anything to Yes repetoir except what any other
>>> studio musician would have.
>
>Sorry to come in at a late stage, but I haven't seen any challenge to this
>statement that Moraz didn't contribute to Relayer as a composer. Have a listen
>to "Sound Chaser"; it is quite clear that Moraz' style is the overwhelmingly
>predominant one on that piece.
Probably that's why I don't like "Sound Chaser". "To Be Over" is
just as good as the best from other Yes albums, and on that
particular track Moraz has a better, more melodic, keyboard style.
Geir Hongro
I know the borders are hard to find, as there is a lot of fusion
in symphonic rock, and often a lot of "progressive" values in
fusion. I like both genres, but I still tend to prefer the more
melodic values of symphonic rock.
The Phantom Crapper
This is all very nice, but can you please restrict this to
rec.music.progressive and alt.music.yes?
Simon Barrow
Which great man? >>
Good point. Since I meant Wakeman ;-)
Simon
"If you never say 'one deliberate obscurity deserves another - but
maybe a gratuitous remark will just have to do', what is your 'Yes'
really worth?" (Anon)
Simon Barrow
Steven Sullivan:
<< I don't
think Geir or Adam really know what they're talking about, but I'll
forgive them since I suspect between them their combined age is barely
mine. >>
I take your point, but I don't think you've quite followed through on
the logic of your assertion. Thankfully. ;-)
Simon
"If you never say '..and they're not symphonic, either', what is your
'Yes' really worth?" (Anon)
Simon Barrow
Steven D-M wrote:
<< HAHAHAHAHAHA! LOL! Let's hope and pray that neither of them ever
develops into that kind of intellectual...>>
Thoughtful, musically committed, a bit intense, and doesn't tend to spend
much time showing off...oh, lord preserve us from such abominations!
Wakeman has always struck
me
as a very jovial *lad* -- someone who'd make a good next door
neighbour.
You'd invite him over to watch *Monday Night Football* or *Match Of The
Day* >>
If I tell you where I live, will you promise *never* to move in next
door? Thanks. :)
Simon
"If you never say 'and thankfully Camus liked football, too', what is your
'Yes' really worth?" (Anon)
tar...@clpgh.org
In article <6e28u8$3f...@beaker.nit.gwu.edu>,
sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
>
> Adam Daudrich (daud...@sympatico.ca) wrote:
> : So basically, we've hit full circle with this thread. We've concluded that
Moraz
> : is the intellectual, introspective,etc... Wakeman is the showoff,
arpeggiated
> : everything possible, extravaganza for the senses, which is what I said at
the
> : beginning!!!!
>
> Actually, all we're saying is that Moraz is the better musician. I
> wouldn't call either of them an 'intellectual', a la Keith Jarrett or
> Fripp.
>
Fripp and Jarrett over the years. You don't mean 'intellectual' , you mean
'blowhard' right?? Well at least Fripp is an amusing blowhard. Jarrett is a
painful and dull blowhard.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Geir Hongro
The Phantom Crapper <8979...@aol.com> wrote:
>This is all very nice, but can you please restrict this to
>rec.music.progressive and alt.music.yes?
In the 90s Yes are way more "alternative" than most of the hitlist
music that is actually given that label.
Adam Daudrich
After listening to Relayer five times today- I have to agree. Moraz is better.
Adam Daudrich
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk wrote:
> >> If Moraz was soooo good - how come when touring the band consistently
> >
> >> How come he didn't really contribute to Relayer as a composer? Yes, I
> >> know he joined the band after the songs were already composed but he
> >> didn't contribute much of anything to Yes repetoir except what any other
> >> studio musician would have.
>
> Sorry to come in at a late stage, but I haven't seen any challenge to this
> statement that Moraz didn't contribute to Relayer as a composer. Have a listen
> to "Sound Chaser"; it is quite clear that Moraz' style is the overwhelmingly
> predominant one on that piece. Perhaps he didn't write any of the actual
> themes, but in my book arrangement is just as important to the feel of a
> piece.
>
> AMEN.
Adam
Adam Daudrich
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Steven Davies-Morris (dav...@deltanet.com) wrote:
> : Adam Daudrich wrote in message <35046B9B...@sympatico.ca>...
>
> : Geir Hongro wrote:
>
J. Mcglinchey
On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Adam Daudrich wrote:
> necessary. What I'm saying is that, you wouldn't put Chick Corea into the YES
> idiom because he'd probably jazz it up far too much for Howe and Squire to
Squire, perhaps. As evidenced on his solos on "Yours is No
Disgrace", "Perpetual Change" and the Tales tracks, though, I'd say Howe's
got a bit o'jazz in him at least, though, with the fat Gibson guitars and
Wes Montgomery influence...maybe it might be a connection if he were to
play with Chick.
> handle. And if you did he would probably quit due to dissatisfaction and
> restlessness.
Would Jon's lyrics be Scientologist enough for him? :)
Steven Davies-Morris
Steven Sullivan wrote in message <6e6ca4$6r...@beaker.nit.gwu.edu>...
>Steven Davies-Morris (dav...@deltanet.com) wrote:
>: Corea. Perhaps the Chris Squire of today might not want to play that
kind
>: of progressive jazz-rock fusion that Yes touched upon with *Relayer*, but
I
>: think that it's not so far fetched an idea when you put *Relayer*
alongside
>: *Romantic Warrior*. Which is the more symphonic prog-rock album? *RM*
>: by quite a big. Which is most fusionesque? *Relayer*.
>
>
Your opinion; my opinion...still just opinion.
>
>: Which is the most
>: jazzy? IMO, *RW*, due to the rythmic aspects brought by Clarke and
White.
>
>Corea's playing,too.
His least *jazzy* and most *classical* work done with *RTF* -- IMO. Very
parallel to Moraz, I think. How about a dual keys prog band with both Corea
and Moraz...yum yum!
>
><stuff about My Spanish heart, a great album , deleted>
Yes, it is a great one. I must salvage my vinyl to CD-R while I still can.
>
>: BTW, Adam, on a personal note, nobody said you didn't know what you were
>: talking about.
>
>Well, I did, actually.
Well, I missed that...in which case I owe Adam an apology for suggesting
he had no reason to snap back. I'd still like clarification/expansion on
some
of his points, but I retract the *hyperactive poodle* statement (we
shouldn't
post at 1:00am is the lesson here, I think <big grin>).
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
The Irish Bastard
In rec.music.progressive BobM <mc_neic...@jpmorgan.com> wrote:
> If Moraz was soooo good - how come when touring the band consistently
> picked up the vast majority of keyboard parts and played them on the
> guiter?
Who played the guitar parts while he did this? Wait.. he played
them both at the same time, right?
> How come he left after 1 album? How come Wakeman came back?
Cuz Wakeman was pals with the band. Moraz was never really
accepted into the band.
> How come he didn't really contribute to Relayer as a composer? Yes, I
> know he joined the band after the songs were already composed but he
> didn't contribute much of anything to Yes repetoir except what any other
> studio musician would have.
That's just plain wrong. Not only was Moraz's mark clearly on
Relayer, but he also participated in the writing of _GfTO_ before being
turfed out and screwed in the credits.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sir Sean McFee III The Irish Bastard
"This will be a final greeting,
Journey's end in lover's meeting."
Jostein, 1997
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
TIMOTHY GUEGUEN
Mike Dickson (mike@blackcat..demon..co..uk) wrote:
: In article <3502EA07...@sympatico.ca> daud...@sympatico.ca wrote...
: > > LOL. One word: birotron.
: > Not familiar with this term..... explanation?
: Like a Mellotron, but instead used constantly spooling cartridges as
: against strips of tape.
: Advantage - (1) Can play chords of indefinite length, as against the
: Mellotron which is limited to eight seconds play time before the tape
: halts.
: Disadvantages - (1) the cartridges wear out quickly because they are
: always in contact with the playback head, (2) since they are on loops
: there is no envelope on the sound and, as such, sounds like a bag of
: shite, (3) the recordings themselves are appalling.
: Wakeman sunk a fortune into these machines and lost it all. There were
: only about twelve ever made. A mate of mine once (way back) got one on
: approval (a sort of 'use of return' basis) and returned it in a week
: because it sounded awful.
Amazing, someone besides Wakeman actually got to play one. :-) I think
that one of the things that likely helped kill the Birotron, along with
the technical faults that it had, was the appearance of the early model
Fairlight CMI in 1979 with its ability to sample digitally. Even at the
price it was going for it was obviously a lot more attractive than a
reworked Mellotron style instrument.
Steven Sullivan
Steven Davies-Morris (dav...@deltanet.com) wrote:
: Corea. Perhaps the Chris Squire of today might not want to play that kind
: of progressive jazz-rock fusion that Yes touched upon with *Relayer*, but I
: think that it's not so far fetched an idea when you put *Relayer* alongside
: *Romantic Warrior*. Which is the more symphonic prog-rock album? *RM*
: by quite a big. Which is most fusionesque? *Relayer*.
I'd say you have it exactly backwards.
: Which is the most
: jazzy? IMO, *RW*, due to the rythmic aspects brought by Clarke and White.
Corea's playing,too.
<stuff about My Spanish heart, a great album , deleted>
: BTW, Adam, on a personal note, nobody said you didn't know what you were
tar...@clpgh.org
In article <6e2m6l$3f...@beaker.nit.gwu.edu>,
sull...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) wrote:
>
> Steven Davies-Morris (dav...@deltanet.com) wrote:
> : >
> : >Actually, all we're saying is that Moraz is the better musician. I
> : >wouldn't call either of them an 'intellectual', a la Keith Jarrett or
> : >Fripp.
>
> : HAHAHAHAHAHA! LOL! Let's hope and pray that neither of them ever
> : develops into that kind of intellectual...
>
Hear Hear!
> One that cares deeply about the music they make, is articulate to a fault,
> opinionated to same,
Snnnooorrrreeeeee.
and always keeps you guessing?
Right. Fripp and jarrett have *hardly* kept anyone in the dark for about
the last fifteen years or so with their music.
Yeah, god forbid
> anyone is Yes should be like that.
>
yeah, we need more arrogant blowhards in the music world. Great.
> : Wakeman has always struck me
> : as a very jovial *lad* -- someone who'd make a good next door neighbour.
> : You'd invite him over to watch *Monday Night Football* or *Match Of The
> : Day* and sink a couple of cold ones.
>
> And this has exactly what to do with making good music? BEethoven, from
> what I hear, wasn't exactly the social butterfly.
>
who says his music is good?? And, i'm sure you totally understand not being
a social butterfly, not having any friends of your own to speak of.
> : Moraz in person comes across as
> : a very energetic charismatic man when he talks publicly, but he doesn't
> : volunteer much privately -- you've got to draw him out.
>
True. His energetic charisma is infectious and compels you to want to be
around the guy. Which I'd much rather do than sit around with Jarrett
listening to him bitch all day.
> Again, this is relevant how...? Trevor Rabin seems like a nice enough
> chap. Too bad about that music, though....
>
> In rock music, it's about 10% talent and 90% charisma that gets you over.
Seeing that dolt Fripp sit on his little stool staring at the ground
playing his 'soundscapes' and listening to Jarrett bitch when someone coughs
in the music hall does'nt sound like entertainment to me....unless someone
clocks the stuffed shirt next time he complains about noise. That would be
funny.
Guy Berger
Reading this thread reminds me of a recent post Fish made on the
Marillion mailing list, concerning the topic. Apparently in high school
he got a black eye during a scuffle concerning who is better, Rick
Wakeman or Keith Emerson. LOL...
Guy
Rob Allen
Who did he prefer?
Adam Daudrich
Geir Hongro wrote:
Guy Berger <gbe...@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> Reading this thread reminds me of a recent post Fish made on the
>Marillion mailing list, concerning the topic. Apparently in high school
>he got a black eye during a scuffle concerning who is better, Rick
>Wakeman or Keith Emerson. LOL...
Do you know what you are saying. Emerson out does every single keyboardist by lght years. He's always been the best. Moraz and Emerson similar? You don't by any chance walk with a dog everywhere you go do you?The Wakeman/Emerson discussion is VERY difficult, as they are SO
similar in many ways - a lot more similar than Moraz/Wakeman.I believe I prefer Wakeman, because he varies his keyboard use a
lot more, is more melodically oriented, and is able to do more
than just solo stuff. Still they are VERY hard to separate from
each other.
J. Mcglinchey
On 12 Mar 1998, Geir Hongro wrote:
> The Wakeman/Emerson discussion is VERY difficult, as they are SO
> similar in many ways - a lot more similar than Moraz/Wakeman.
I'd still easily cast my vote for Emerson, in terms of overall technique,
range of influences, and compositional ability. It took me about two
weeks tops to learn to play Wakeman's "Six Wives Excerpts" comfortably, at
about the speed it's played on the recording. By comparison, after
about four years (when I can actually gather enough courage/motivation to
continue it), I'm still working on the first little section of Emerson's
"Karn Evil 9 2nd Imp" ...it's that insane to play (unless you're an
advanced-level pianist or someone who has nothing else to do than practice
at it day in and day out). At the height of my motivation, I could play
the first few minutes of it very shoddily at about 3/4 of the speed that
Emo does.
> I believe I prefer Wakeman, because he varies his keyboard use a
I somewhat agree with you here (maybe it's because Emerson never used a
mellotron)
> lot more, is more melodically oriented, and is able to do more
Definately here (under your definition of "melody", that is); I submit
that this is *really* the main reason Wakeman is more favorable to you.
> than just solo stuff.
Emerson "just solos" but Wakeman does not? You've got to be kidding me.
Or do you mean Wakeman is better integrated with his band than Emerson is
in his?
Mike Dickson
In article <6e5c32$qfi$1...@missing.its.to> ad...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca wrote...
> Amazing, someone besides Wakeman actually got to play one. :-) I think
> that one of the things that likely helped kill the Birotron, along with
> the technical faults that it had, was the appearance of the early model
> Fairlight CMI in 1979 with its ability to sample digitally.
Early samplers were not really all that great. Not only that, but they
had serious bandwidth problems that tape replay systems obviously didn't
have. What probably helped to destroy the whole genre was their supposed
unreliability.
Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Musselburgh, Scotland
fax 0131-271-1551 - Columnated Ruins Domino - Mellotron M400 #996
For the King Crimson mailing list send e-mail to admin @ elephant-talk.com
Ken Taylor
Steven Davies-Morris wrote:
[stuff I'm not wanting to buy into...snipped :)
>I'm intrigued by your assertion that Corea would *jazz it up* too much. I
>have
>a double LP by Corea from 1976 called *My Spanish Heart*. There's very
>little on that album that I would call *jazz*. What most of it is, IMO, is
>a
>flamenco/symphonic prog/fusion hybrid; perhaps what Carmen might have
>aspired to had they lasted longer, had bigger chops, and had they been
>infused with some jazzier elements. Side 4, in particlular, the 4 part
>suite
>called *Spanish Fantasy* is a perfect amalgamation of this style. I
believe
>that Corea can shape his performace to the needs of the music [...]
That is (for me) Corea's best album. I especially like the title track ("My
Spanish Heart") which is quite Rachmaninov-ish. The use of the string
players is complementary to the mood of the album, unlike so many "jazz
meets strings" recordings (doesn't matter where you tie the knot, or how
high you place the rope...you just cant make 'em swing;-)
Ken
and that your
>stated opinion doesn't do him justice. Perhaps you'd care to expand on it,
>in case I've misunderstood what you meant.
>
>Since you profess to have a lot of knowledge about jazz, tell me more. I
>have
>a large jazz library myself, though I must admit to not *knowing how it
>works*.
>My first wife was a jazz singer, very much in the mold of Flora Purim, so I
>heard tons of jazz while she was learning material, particlularly the *RTF*
>material with Purim and Gayle Moran. I'm always willing to be enlightened
>by
>someone who knows more than I do...and since you've offered, feel free to
>post
>an education here for me and others like me who are merely listeners, not
>students, of the genre.
>
>BTW, Adam, on a personal note, nobody said you didn't know what you were
>talking about. Don't be so damn defensive when your posts draw a little
>fire.
>I've noticed this about you from reading your posts over the last few
>months.
>While you often have very interesting things to say, you have this annoying
>habit of snapping back at people like a hyperactive poodle, whenever you
>believe you're being criticized. As I would say to my 4 year old son
>Trevor...
>don't use that tone of voice with me, it's not necessary... <grin>
>
>Regards
>Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
>
>
Steven Davies-Morris
Simon Barrow wrote in message ...
>Stephen M-D:
>
>Steven Sullivan:
>
><< Which is the more symphonic prog-rock album? *RM*
>>: by quite a big. Which is most fusionesque? *Relayer*.
>>
>>
>>I'd say you have it exactly backwards.
>
>
>
>universe, it wouldn't be too hard to demonstrate why Steven is right
>and why you're wrong, provided that one could agree some criteria on
>the chief distinguishing characteristics of the two genres.
>
>Which I'm sure you'd be willing to do in any other instance where it
>proved your case.
>Simon
>"If you never say 'no', what is your 'Yes' really worth?" (Anon)
>
Simon:
That's sound great to me. Lay out some characteristics that distinguish
the genres as you see them, and expand this post. I think it might be a
very good thread. Also, I'm always up for eating crow if its deserved. I
don't care if discussion proves my point or not. Being right is okay, but
I'd much rather be informed, which is why I visit amy and rmp in the first
place. Lord knows it isn't the first time I've stuck my foot in my mouth on
usenet...and it surely won't be the last <grin>
I have a non-inflammatory question regarding this assertion:
>Which I'm sure you'd be willing to do in any other instance where it
>proved your case.
Is it your experience in amy and rmp that people only engage in dialog
that supports their cherished opinions? I detect an undercurrent in the
way the statement was made that infers that "I" (usenet posters in
general?) won't come to the table and talk because "my" position has
no merit and I know it. I'm curious if this was simply a situational
position based on a post by SDM that you disagree with, or was made
based on your time around amy and rmp, which seems to predate me
by a lot.
Looking forward to reading your slant on fusion and symphonic, and
where they overlap, and the takes of anyone else who wants to throw
in their 2 cents.
One minor point. It's Steven D-M not M-D, if you want to contract my
name. SDM is fine.
Regards
Steven Davies-Morris dav...@deltanet.com
Geir Hongro
Guy Berger <gbe...@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> Reading this thread reminds me of a recent post Fish made on the
>Marillion mailing list, concerning the topic. Apparently in high school
>he got a black eye during a scuffle concerning who is better, Rick
>Wakeman or Keith Emerson. LOL...
The Wakeman/Emerson discussion is VERY difficult, as they are SO
similar in many ways - a lot more similar than Moraz/Wakeman.
I believe I prefer Wakeman, because he varies his keyboard use a
lot more, is more melodically oriented, and is able to do more
than just solo stuff. Still they are VERY hard to separate from
each other.
--
The Irish Bastard
In rec.music.progressive Adam Daudrich <daud...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Do you know what you are saying. Emerson out does every single keyboardist by
> lght years. He's always been the best. Moraz and Emerson similar? You don't
> by any chance walk with a dog everywhere you go do you?
What, a hearing-ear dog? LOL...