phish/gdead thought
Z
dead show from '90. Looking at the band, they had been around the
block and many fans from the early days (60-70s) no longer loved the
dead. Many thought they had sold out/lost their edge and had become a
cover band to their own music. They weren't the same.
I feel phish may be going through a similar stage. They are not the
same band they were, but they're still great musicians with great
songs, as were the dead in their later years. Many times it's hard to
see yourself (the listener and the band) during these transitions.
Many times it's hard to accept the change.
Also to note, Grateful Dead, as well as Phish are somewhat of a rite
of passage for many (myself absolutely included). With the scene,
music, drugs, etc both have become more than the sum of their
parts...a spectacle, an experience we all must see at some point in
our lives. And this rite of passage helps us move from our youth to
maturity. When I think of phish/dead, I think of being young and alive
when I first heard them. I identify my youth with this music. And this
is probably the source of many people's difficulty with the 'new
phish' (mostly on PT). Many comments of how they're sloppy, will never
be as good as 95, etc. Things evolve for better or for worse. They are
not what they were and probably never will be, but do you like what
you hear?
But the real question is, how does the band, the music, and the scene
evolve from here? I feel the rolling stones album was an excellent
choice, and a great metaphor, for the band...looking for their long
term options as musicians, as phish. The Rolling Stones are icons,
continuing to play their music well into their 'elder years'. Phish
may be saying something with this selection.
But I have to say, I still have nothing but an amazing time when I go
see phish. I remember my youth, the amazing times (a theme sparking a
memory from deer creek, the intense dosage of music I received at big
cypress), and create new memories (8...still digesting...). I still
love the experiences and I hope you all do too.
Best,
Z
Halden
started listening to both in my 30s. The Dead were always around in my
youth as my father and uncles were aging hippies ;) but I never really
started listening to them until the last year or so. My new discovery
of the Dead eventually lead to Phish.
The funny thing is as a someone who is new I have different approaches
to the two. I prefer 68 to 75 Dead but I prefer the new Phish stuff.
Early Dead I find has more to differentiate itself from the later as
there were personnel changes as well as style changes. Phish, however,
has the same cast but they have evolved a sound that I prefer. Don't
get me wrong 90s phish is great but I LOVE the 3.0 sound.
Both bands definitely have a scene and rep that can get bigger than
the music at times but I think this is just a jumping of point to some
really great music.
Halden
marcman
Halden, might I suggest when you have a chance, give 77-79 a try. ;-)
IMO, '77 was the best of the best!
Halden
particular show suggestions?
marcman
> I have been told that and have been meaning to get around to it. Any
> particular show suggestions?
Not to cop out, but literally, you could pluck just about *any* show
from 1977 and not go wrong. Of course there's the world famous 5/8/77
not to be outdone by the not so world famous 5/7/77 and 5/9/77.
And if we're speaking of 1977, I also always found 2/26/77 to be
interesting, but not only because it was the first time played for
Terrapin Station (first set opener!) and Estimated Prophet (also
making a rare first set appearance), but for a smokin' hot second set
of Samson and Delilah, Tennessee Jed, Music Never Stopped, Help on the
Way> Slipknot> Franklin's Tower, Promised Land, Eyes of the World>
Dancin' in the Street> Around and Around.
Happy trails! :)
DaManfred Mann
> I have been told that and have been meaning to get around to it. Any
> particular show suggestions?
I was going to say 5/21/77, which I have a sound board recording of, but
I wanted to verify the date first. Unfortunately, I have yet to find
the discs...it's time to spend a few hours and restock the CD shelves,
I've got stacks of stuff all over the place. but I'm pretty sure that
was the date. IMO 77 was a great year, mush like 72.
Hope that helps,
Dave
Halden
marcman
> I love '72 so if '77 lives up to that I will be good.
SO many great shows from '72!
Of course there's the entire Europe run, the 8/27/72 Veneta Oregon
show (classic), and Hoffienz (sp?) Pavillion 11/19/72. Man I wish I
was around live and in person for 1972, they played some pretty sweet,
small venues! Ahhh, those were the days my friends . . .
marcman
On Nov 9, 12:16 pm, Z <molecularch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I woke up yesterday morning and decided to put on View to a Vault - a
> dead show from '90. Looking at the band, they had been around the
> block and many fans from the early days (60-70s) no longer loved the
> dead. Many thought they had sold out/lost their edge and had become a
> cover band to their own music. They weren't the same.
>
90s GD was not the same. And it was mostly because, imo, Jerry was not
the same. And while this may open a can of worms, in this DHs opinion,
as went Jerry, went the GD. That'snot to say there weren't many
memorable moments in the 90s, just thatthey were fewer and farther
between then say the late 70s early to mid 80s. In that era, almost
every monet (not quite but almost) was memorable in a positive way.
Also, the 90s saw the exit of Brent, whom I grew up on and that also
changed a lot for me with the band.
> I feel phish may be going through a similar stage. They are not the
> same band they were, but they're still great musicians with great
> songs, as were the dead in their later years.
I have to say that while at and listening to many GD shows in the 90s,
even before Jerry's decline, the vibe I had was almost always that
this band was winding down. With the exception of the first run of
shows with Hornsby, not sure I can explain why but I really did dig
those shows, maybe because I caught all 6 MSG shows
(9/14,15,16,18,19,20/90) so I'm influenced from having actually been
there. In general though, I don't get anything near the feeling of
the last of the 90s GD when I see Phish in the present. I think/feel
that Phish, while a different sounding band today than say early to
mid 90s(or all of the 90s really) to me, they sound like a band
that's still growing both musically and also as a live act. I find
nothing stale about them, where by the early 90s with the Dead, there
was some disappointment there for me.
daves energyguide
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL manfred, as soon as i read haldens post on recommended 77 shows,
5/21/77 came straight to my head, but you beat me to it:))
i do believe this is the show that contains the "beautiful jam" that
is on the so many roads box set. BTW halden if you dont have the so
many roads box set, get it.
over shadowed by the 5/8/77 show, set 1 of 5/9/77 is amazing. the
Playin in the Band is just pure fire. also, dont forget RR 78, another
goodie to check out. i also agree w/ the 2/26/77. wow, these were all
some of the first tapes i ever owned. thanks for the Gdead
discussion:))
Halden
was a Dick's Pick so it is not on Archive.org.
daves energyguide
> Well I found most of the suggested shows except 5/21/77. Apparently it
> was a Dick's Pick so it is not on Archive.org.
Halden, i will send you a sbd copy of 5/21/77 if youd like. one of my
favorite Gdead shows!!!!
LMK.
Halden
Thanks dude, email sent.
Garciyalater
then try and pick which is the best show.....
no such an easy task.....
and everyone I know who likes the dead, loves to say cornell(5/8) is
good but then toss out, but have you heard blank.....
in this case, mine is 10/2/77.....take out the wharf rat, and the post
drums is in my top 3 of dead of all time....
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1977-10-02.sbd.cantor.gmb.86354.sbeok.flac16
daves energyguide
god yes garciya, 10/2/77 wharf rat is the shit!!!
deg
Halden
Delilah. The Bass and drums sound on this recording the only down side
is Donna ;)
Halden
Jer
Why does it seem like 1976 doesn't exist? I've been enjoying the June
'76 shows more than any other era recently. I was following along
with the 1974 Project on bt.etree and decided to grab some '76 shows
after filling my head with as much '74 Dead as it could take. Man,
what a dramatic transformation...granted the reintroduction of Hart
had a lot to do with that. Nevertheless the band completely
reinvented themselves with their time off in 1975 and came back with a
completely different sound. Just listen to a June '76 Slipknot! or
Crazy Fingers...this was stuff the Dead were not playing in '74.
Granted, I'm not saying one is better than another (it would be very
very hard to say that anything is better than pre-hiatus Dead), but I
had no idea the extent to which the sound of the band changed in those
20 months. Basically this is my long winded defense of 1976 Dead :).
-J
mr.rapidan
> Why does it seem like 1976 doesn't exist? I've been enjoying the June
> '76 shows more than any other era recently. I was following along
Well, I know I basically dismissed '76 for a long time, for no good
reason at all. Any 6/76 shows you like above the others? I really
like 6/3/76 . . .
Jer
I've been listening to 6/9 a lot recently...GREAT Crazy Fingers, the
crowd reaction to St. Stephen (I think it was the first since '71?) is
just fucking fantastic and the same can be said about pretty much all
of the second set. a 1976 project just started on bt.etree (Part 1
was seeded a couple of days ago), so pretty much anything you could
desire from that year will be seeded soon :).
-J
Garciyalater
6/12/76, why I dont know, but when phil tells people to be careful or
the fire marshall will put them out, I always smile....
Halden
unseed 5/2/70 as my favourite but they are mighty fine. I am looking
forward to the 77 Winterland shows I Downloaded.
6/12/76 sounds funny I may have to check it out.
Z
I missed this line the first read. thx marcman...
Can you give me an overview of how Jerry changed throughout the
years? I don't know enough about how he was and how it changed the
sound...
Also, were you on the rail 10/31/09 by the crane?
Z
Garciyalater
comparing a dead show from 1970 to a dead show 77 is like comparing
fall of 97 phish to machine gun trey in 93 or 95......
both are so amazingly excellent, its a matter of taste.....
if you like 70, look for the new orleans from when they got busted and
also the free show in front of MIT from like 5.6
Jer
> > First let me say please, great article, Z, I enjoyed reading it!
>
> I missed this line the first read. thx marcman...
>
> Can you give me an overview of how Jerry changed throughout the
> years? I don't know enough about how he was and how it changed the
> sound...
Listen to a 1969 Dark Star, 1971 Good Lovin', 1973-74 Playing in the
Band, 1977 Scarlet->Fire, 1979 Shakedown. You can throw in a Looks
Like Rain from 1972 with him on the pedal steel (holy shit) as well.
Yes, I know my list certainly isn't anywhere near all-inclusive, but I
don't really listen to anything past 1979 besides the acoustic sets
from Fall 1980. I know I'm missing out on a lot of good stuff, but
there is so much from 1968-1979 that I haven't listened to. Add to
that the fact that I don't care for Brent/Vince, Jerry's growing
heroin addiction/vocal degredation, huge stadium show tours, etc etc.
Anyway, start with any 1969 Dark Star and you can't go wrong.
-J
DaManfred Mann
>
> Listen to a 1969 Dark Star, 1971 Good Lovin', 1973-74 Playing in the
> Band, 1977 Scarlet->Fire, 1979 Shakedown. You can throw in a Looks
> Like Rain from 1972 with him on the pedal steel (holy shit) as well.
> Yes, I know my list certainly isn't anywhere near all-inclusive, but I
> don't really listen to anything past 1979 besides the acoustic sets
> from Fall 1980. I know I'm missing out on a lot of good stuff, but
> there is so much from 1968-1979 that I haven't listened to. Add to
> that the fact that I don't care for Brent/Vince, Jerry's growing
> heroin addiction/vocal degredation, huge stadium show tours, etc etc.
> Anyway, start with any 1969 Dark Star and you can't go wrong.
>
> -J
Man, I know this isn't technically a Phish discussion, but I always
enjoy a healthy discussion on semi-related topics like this. I say
semi-related, because most of us listen to both bands and there are many
things relevant to why we're here, in a discussion like this.
I weighed in early on the 72 and 77 eras, but I've made note of some of
the suggestions in this thread and I really appreciate the depth and
quality of the information.
This is starting to feel like our beloved newsgroup again, isn't it?
Thanks everyone for being so dedicated to great music...and sharing it
with others.
Peace,
Dave
Halden
moment. I used a line from the 1/30/70 stage banter ( Obedience to the
law is the only true freedom ) as my status and that sent he and I
into a back and forth and he is now trying to determine who said it.
Garciyalater
fans from 60 and 70s just didnt love the dead.....
truth is, I am in my late 30's and there are things I wouldnt do today
to see phish that I would in my peak years of 93-->97......
we thought nothing of driving to philly, turning around and coming 5
hours home, or doing 6 nights at the boston garden and not missing a
day of of our schlep jobs....
but once you have kids, a real job, you pick your spots, and while you
dont see as many fans from the "old days", know that when we are
there, we are having twice as much fun as you youngsters :)
mr.rapidan
compilation by the DttC folks. Much more info if you follow the link.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=518048
Grateful Dead
Dead To The Core Project
Noteworthy Jams (A Collection)
This is a collection of noteworthy jams played by the Grateful
Dead. It is very closely based on a list put together by Eric Wybenga
and published in his book _Dead To The Core: An Almanac of the
Grateful Dead_. Several of Eric's selections have been released
commercially. In most cases there was an audience recording at hand
which I could use; in the case of 11/8/69, I substituted another Main
Ten (played exactly a year later, on 11/8/70).
I found that the jams sounded odd when presented by themselves, so
more often than not I've included the music around the jams so they
are here in the original context. I tried to avoid including multiple
copies of the same non-jam song, and for the most part I was able to
do that. The upshot is, in addition to this being a very good
collection of jams, it's also a damn good survey of the songs that the
Grateful Dead jammed well over the years. It's also large: so it goes.
The track names are self-explanatory: they list the date of the
performance, the SHNID of the source, and shortened names of the songs
included in the track. I joined the original tracks with "shntool
join", and then I retracked and added simple fades using Wavelab. I
fixed up the resulting tracks using shntool, and then I compressed the
files using "flac --best". I used shntool version 3.0.2, flac version
1.1.3, and Wavelab version 6.
gd66-03-25.00038.Jam.flac
gd68-02-14.89676.BornCrossEyed-SpanishJam.flac
gd68-10-10.05186.DarkStarJam-TheElevenJam-TheSeven.flac
gd68-10-10.05186.SameThingJam-LovelightJam-OtherOneJam-DeathDont.flac
gd70-02-11.28402.DarkStar-SpanishJam-Lovelight.flac
gd70-09-19.31510.NFA-DarknessJam-ChinaCatJam-NFA.flac
gd70-11-08.26975.DarkSpace-MainTen.flac
gd73-07-28.14196.MountainJam.flac
gd73-12-02.17278.Playin-MindLeftBodyJam.flac
gd74-05-19.79781.Truckin-MindLeftBodyJam-NFA-GDTRFB.flac
gd74-06-18.89690.WRS-OtherOne-ItsASinJam-StellaBlue.flac
gd74-06-28.16038.Seastones.flac
gd74-06-28.16038.Space-MindLeftBodyJam-Jam.flac
gd74-07-19.32634.Jam-SpanishJam-Eyes.flac
gd78-11-20.32489.Jam-JackARoe.flac
gd81-05-06.82368.HesGone-CautionJam-SpanishJam.flac
gd81-08-28.09572.Space-SpanishJam.flac
gd81-10-06.03303.Space-BluesForAllahJam-Wheel.flac
gd85-11-05.21246.SupplicationJam-PlayinJam.flac
gd86-03-27.26347.Space-SpanishJam.flac
gd90-03-24.91828.Terrapin-MindLeftBodyJam.flac
gd91-03-21.87289.Scarlet-Fire-StirItUpJam.flac
gd93-03-17.79050.Space-HandsomeCabinBoyJam-OtherOne-DaysBetween.flac
gd93-09-13.34030.TubularBells.flac
Halden
Very interesting. Looks like I may have some more downloading to do...
better check my usage.
Halden