Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
'land without music'....
118 views
Skip to first unread message
Gill Smith
Jul 10, 2012, 8:20:28 AM7/10/12
to
England
in the judgement of the rest of Europe in the 17th/18th/19th centuries
but maybe it's tribute to the strength of British folk music
so many excellent tunes
made life difficult/impossible for professional composers
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
in the judgement of the rest of Europe in the 17th/18th/19th centuries
but maybe it's tribute to the strength of British folk music
so many excellent tunes
made life difficult/impossible for professional composers
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 10, 2012, 11:10:44 AM7/10/12
to
On Jul 10, 8:20 am, "Gill Smith" <gill.smith....@googlemail.com>
wrote:
etc. etc. etc.?
(Not counting the Tudor-Stuarts as representatives of the 17th c.)
wrote:
> England
>
> in the judgement of the rest of Europe in the 17th/18th/19th centuries
>
> but maybe it's tribute to the strength of British folk music
>
> so many excellent tunes
>
> made life difficult/impossible for professional composers
Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
>
> in the judgement of the rest of Europe in the 17th/18th/19th centuries
>
> but maybe it's tribute to the strength of British folk music
>
> so many excellent tunes
>
> made life difficult/impossible for professional composers
etc. etc. etc.?
(Not counting the Tudor-Stuarts as representatives of the 17th c.)
Gill Smith
Jul 11, 2012, 6:59:32 AM7/11/12
to
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
>etc. etc. etc.?
Handel and Haydn were German
Sullivan was a wannabe
Linley? Bennett?? cricketers???
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
news:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
>etc. etc. etc.?
Sullivan was a wannabe
Linley? Bennett?? cricketers???
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
Bill
Jul 11, 2012, 6:59:57 AM7/11/12
to
On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:59:32 +0100, "Gill Smith"
<gill.sm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
>>etc. etc. etc.?
>
>Handel and Haydn were German
>
>Sullivan was a wannabe
>
>Linley? Bennett?? cricketers???
Playford?
<gill.sm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
>>etc. etc. etc.?
>
>Handel and Haydn were German
>
>Sullivan was a wannabe
>
>Linley? Bennett?? cricketers???
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 11, 2012, 9:11:15 AM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 6:59 am, "Gill Smith" <gill.smith....@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in messagenews:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
Go away.
> Sullivan was a wannabe
>
> Linley? Bennett?? cricketers???
I've never heard of a composer called "cricketers."
wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in messagenews:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>
> >Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
> >etc. etc. etc.?
>
> Handel and Haydn were German
Ah -- the Racial Purity theory of musicology.
> >Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
> >etc. etc. etc.?
>
> Handel and Haydn were German
Go away.
> Sullivan was a wannabe
>
> Linley? Bennett?? cricketers???
Colin Reed
Jul 11, 2012, 9:34:56 AM7/11/12
to
Hungary, in what was then the Austro-Hungarian empire.
John Wiser
Jul 11, 2012, 10:37:07 AM7/11/12
to
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bfee3ef9-2f0c-4150...@g5g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 11, 6:59 am, "Gill Smith" <gill.smith....@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
> messagenews:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>
>> >Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
>> >etc. etc. etc.?
>
>> Handel and Haydn were German
> Ah -- the Racial Purity theory of musicology.
Come to think of it, Hadow identified Haydn as a Croat.
wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
> messagenews:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>
>> >Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
>> >etc. etc. etc.?
>
>> Handel and Haydn were German
> Ah -- the Racial Purity theory of musicology.
> Go away.
Shortly.
>> Sullivan was a wannabe
>
>> Linley? Bennett?? cricketers???
> I've never heard of a composer called "cricketers."
called "Cricketers of Wimbledon."
Perhaps the OP is conflating.
JDW
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 11, 2012, 12:49:36 PM7/11/12
to
On Jul 11, 10:37 am, "John Wiser" <ceec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in messagenews:bfee3ef9-2f0c-4150...@g5g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
Hmm, would he be more offended by the actual name "Heseltine" or the
pseudonym "Warlock"? Anyway he's 20th-c. so he doesn't count.
Last night I attended a performance of Corigliano's "Fern Hill" (1960,
text by Dylan Thomas) -- I'm told it's rather popular. It's as if
Ives, Harris, Copland had never existed (let alone Gershwin or
Bernstein) -- warmed-over Vaughan Williams.
But it was followed by Michael Conley's *The Bequest of Wings," an
Emily Dickinson cycle (2012), conducted by the composer -- a vastly
superior piece.
And then Tavener's "Svyati" (which just about reached, or maybe
surpassed, the limit of how much Tavener one can take at one sitting),
and a rollicking Choral Fantasy of Beethoven. (I hope Haydn got to see
the score -- I wonder whether gruff ol' Ludwig realized how funny he
was being.)
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in messagenews:bfee3ef9-2f0c-4150...@g5g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
pseudonym "Warlock"? Anyway he's 20th-c. so he doesn't count.
Last night I attended a performance of Corigliano's "Fern Hill" (1960,
text by Dylan Thomas) -- I'm told it's rather popular. It's as if
Ives, Harris, Copland had never existed (let alone Gershwin or
Bernstein) -- warmed-over Vaughan Williams.
But it was followed by Michael Conley's *The Bequest of Wings," an
Emily Dickinson cycle (2012), conducted by the composer -- a vastly
superior piece.
And then Tavener's "Svyati" (which just about reached, or maybe
surpassed, the limit of how much Tavener one can take at one sitting),
and a rollicking Choral Fantasy of Beethoven. (I hope Haydn got to see
the score -- I wonder whether gruff ol' Ludwig realized how funny he
was being.)
Gill Smith
Jul 11, 2012, 9:33:36 PM7/11/12
to
"Bill" <black...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:05nqv71li1qvo938f...@4ax.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Playford
"Playford's original compositions were few and slight...."
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
news:05nqv71li1qvo938f...@4ax.com...
"Playford's original compositions were few and slight...."
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
Message has been deleted
Bill
Jul 13, 2012, 8:44:32 AM7/13/12
to
On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:58:42 +0100, Hils <hi...@saynotospam.com> wrote:
>There's a long-standing culture of anti-culture in England, particularly
>with music. Working-class people have for decades at least been
>brainwashed into believing that art music is not for the likes of them,
>and they should stick to their own "culture" of manual labour, junk
>food, alcohol, and TV soccer. Then there are the critics, who would not
>allow a performance (or proposed performance) of a Parry oratorio,
>Stanford symphony, or Vaughan Williams opera to pass without some
>comment along the lines of "well, they're a curiosity, but they're not
>as good as Gerontius, Brahms, or Verdi..."
It is interesting that in most European countries they have 'folk
culture' which is a mass activity and in England they have Folk Music,
which is considered a middle class pastime...
>There's a long-standing culture of anti-culture in England, particularly
>with music. Working-class people have for decades at least been
>brainwashed into believing that art music is not for the likes of them,
>and they should stick to their own "culture" of manual labour, junk
>food, alcohol, and TV soccer. Then there are the critics, who would not
>allow a performance (or proposed performance) of a Parry oratorio,
>Stanford symphony, or Vaughan Williams opera to pass without some
>comment along the lines of "well, they're a curiosity, but they're not
>as good as Gerontius, Brahms, or Verdi..."
It is interesting that in most European countries they have 'folk
culture' which is a mass activity and in England they have Folk Music,
which is considered a middle class pastime...
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 13, 2012, 10:23:25 AM7/13/12
to
On Jul 13, 7:58 am, Hils <h...@saynotospam.com> wrote:
> On 2012-07-11 15:37, John Wiser wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> and Parry were the Samuel Wesley and Samuel Sebastian Wesley, but they
> had little or no native competition. SSW dedicated himself to writing
> for the Anglican church at a time when its cultural influence was
> waning, and few people outside of Anglicanism seem to have heard of him.
>
> "We'll sing a song of Hambledon, and sing it at "The George",
> Of balls that flew from Beldham's bat like sparks from Fennex' forge,
> The centuries of Aylward, and a thousand guineas bet,
> And Sueter keeping wicket to the thunderbolts of Brett."
>
> The text (by Bruce Blunt)
How could the author of that parody of "Casey at the Bat" have also
created "Bethlehem Down"?
> On 2012-07-11 15:37, John Wiser wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:bfee3ef9-2f0c-4150...@g5g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jul 11, 6:59 am, "Gill Smith" <gill.smith....@googlemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
> >> messagenews:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> >Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
> >>> >etc. etc. etc.?
>
> >>> Handel and Haydn were German
>
> >> Ah -- the Racial Purity theory of musicology.
>
> > Come to think of it, Hadow identified Haydn as a Croat.
>
> >> Go away.
>
> > Shortly.
>
> >>> Sullivan was a wannabe
>
> Possibly the most outstanding talents of the interregnum between Purcell
> > On Jul 11, 6:59 am, "Gill Smith" <gill.smith....@googlemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
> >> messagenews:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> >Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett, Sullivan,
> >>> >etc. etc. etc.?
>
> >>> Handel and Haydn were German
>
> >> Ah -- the Racial Purity theory of musicology.
>
> > Come to think of it, Hadow identified Haydn as a Croat.
>
> >> Go away.
>
> > Shortly.
>
> >>> Sullivan was a wannabe
>
> and Parry were the Samuel Wesley and Samuel Sebastian Wesley, but they
> had little or no native competition. SSW dedicated himself to writing
> for the Anglican church at a time when its cultural influence was
> waning, and few people outside of Anglicanism seem to have heard of him.
>
> >>> Linley? Bennett?? cricketers???
>
> >> I've never heard of a composer called "cricketers."
>
> > Peter Warlock did a little marching song
> > called "Cricketers of Wimbledon."
> > Perhaps the OP is conflating.
>
> "The Cricketers of Hambledon", and more a literate drinking song.
> >>> Linley? Bennett?? cricketers???
>
> >> I've never heard of a composer called "cricketers."
>
> > Peter Warlock did a little marching song
> > called "Cricketers of Wimbledon."
> > Perhaps the OP is conflating.
>
>
> "We'll sing a song of Hambledon, and sing it at "The George",
> Of balls that flew from Beldham's bat like sparks from Fennex' forge,
> The centuries of Aylward, and a thousand guineas bet,
> And Sueter keeping wicket to the thunderbolts of Brett."
>
> The text (by Bruce Blunt)
How could the author of that parody of "Casey at the Bat" have also
created "Bethlehem Down"?
Message has been deleted
Pooh Bah
Jul 15, 2012, 1:01:03 AM7/15/12
to
I thought William F. Buckley was dead.
Molly Mockford
Jul 15, 2012, 3:22:09 AM7/15/12
to
At 05:55:51 on Sun, 15 Jul 2012, Hils <hi...@saynotospam.com> wrote in
<jttigo$t1l$1...@adenine.netfront.net>:
>I did Blunt a grave disservice, the first line is
>
>"I'll make a sing of Hambledon, and sing it at "The George""
>
>which is much more poetic.
Doesn't sound it to me. I would have thought that "I'll make a song..."
would be better.
--
Molly Mockford
Nature loves variety. Unfortunately, society hates it. (Milton Diamond Ph.D.)
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
<jttigo$t1l$1...@adenine.netfront.net>:
>I did Blunt a grave disservice, the first line is
>
>"I'll make a sing of Hambledon, and sing it at "The George""
>
>which is much more poetic.
Doesn't sound it to me. I would have thought that "I'll make a song..."
would be better.
--
Molly Mockford
Nature loves variety. Unfortunately, society hates it. (Milton Diamond Ph.D.)
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
Message has been deleted
Peter T. Daniels
Jul 15, 2012, 8:17:17 AM7/15/12
to
On Jul 15, 12:55 am, Hils <h...@saynotospam.com> wrote:
> musical ballad. Thayer's is stylised vaudevillian rambling, and
> evidently
"Evidently"? What's the "eviden"ce?
> the subject of numerous improvements by more literate pens.
> Perhaps you have evidence that Blunt was aware of Thayer's work?
Are you suggesting he was stupid or ignorant?
I notice you didn't address the question.
At least when Eliot made *Cats* possible, he had the good grace not to
put his own name on the doggerel.
> I did Blunt a grave disservice, the first line is
>
> "I'll make a sing of Hambledon, and sing it at "The George""
>
> which is much more poetic.
>
>
> "I'll make a sing of Hambledon, and sing it at "The George""
>
> which is much more poetic.
>
> > How could the author of that parody of "Casey at the Bat" have also
> > created "Bethlehem Down"?
>
> Blunt's work is concise, rooted in history, and perfectly suited for a
> > created "Bethlehem Down"?
>
> musical ballad. Thayer's is stylised vaudevillian rambling, and
> evidently
"Evidently"? What's the "eviden"ce?
> the subject of numerous improvements by more literate pens.
> Perhaps you have evidence that Blunt was aware of Thayer's work?
Are you suggesting he was stupid or ignorant?
I notice you didn't address the question.
At least when Eliot made *Cats* possible, he had the good grace not to
put his own name on the doggerel.
andrew...@canberra.edu.au
Jul 20, 2012, 2:20:38 AM7/20/12
to
On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:11:15 PM UTC+10, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> I've never heard of a composer called "cricketers."
Original composer of "The Bails of St Mary's". Perfect pitch, even on the last day of a test match.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
> I've never heard of a composer called "cricketers."
Original composer of "The Bails of St Mary's". Perfect pitch, even on the last day of a test match.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Gill Smith
Jul 24, 2012, 7:12:45 AM7/24/12
to
Ingerland has much to answer for
in the form of Albert Ket�lbey
the first 'millionaire composer'
KETELBEY
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
in the form of Albert Ket�lbey
the first 'millionaire composer'
KETELBEY
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
RVG
Oct 27, 2012, 2:06:14 AM10/27/12
to
Le 11/07/2012 12:59, Gill Smith a écrit :
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>> Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett,
>> Sullivan, etc. etc. etc.?
>
> Handel and Haydn were German
>
Haydn was Austrian.
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:af0f3973-6bf4-48f2...@p6g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>> Such as Purcell, Handel, Linley, Haydn, Sterndale Bennett,
>> Sullivan, etc. etc. etc.?
>
> Handel and Haydn were German
>
But Mendelssohn was German too.
Britain killed real music with the Beatles. They completely erased from
the musical panorama the great adventures of modern jazz (like Mike
Westbrook whose superbly orchestrated music - inspired by Duke Ellington
- managed to find a wider audience thanks to Van Morrison) and, with the
Rolling Stones, rich white Britons also stole the music of poor black
Americans and made indecent money with it.
--
«Les mots qui vont surgir savent de nous des choses que nous ignorons
d'eux.»
René Char
http://www.jamendo.com/fr/artist/336871/regis-v.-gronoff
http://soundcloud.com/rvgronoff
http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Bill
Oct 27, 2012, 1:21:24 PM10/27/12
to
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 08:06:14 +0200, RVG
<not....@themoment.invalid.org> wrote:
>Britain killed real music with the Beatles. They completely erased from
>the musical panorama the great adventures of modern jazz (like Mike
>Westbrook whose superbly orchestrated music - inspired by Duke Ellington
>- managed to find a wider audience thanks to Van Morrison) and, with the
>Rolling Stones, rich white Britons also stole the music of poor black
>Americans and made indecent money with it.
Either you forgot the smiley face or you need to take more water with
<not....@themoment.invalid.org> wrote:
>Britain killed real music with the Beatles. They completely erased from
>the musical panorama the great adventures of modern jazz (like Mike
>Westbrook whose superbly orchestrated music - inspired by Duke Ellington
>- managed to find a wider audience thanks to Van Morrison) and, with the
>Rolling Stones, rich white Britons also stole the music of poor black
>Americans and made indecent money with it.
it mate...
0 new messages