Ed & Charlie/Livelihood
OmbraRecds
without the "pirates". The gentleman who differentiated bootlegs and pirates
has done a little homework. Some of the other postings sound alarmingly like
the righteous politicians with their own nasty little secrets calling for the
head of a leader. There are so many bizarre laws on the books, with new ones
being added every day. I have never felt it was right for anyone to simply copy
an existing commercial recording and compete with the company that originally
produced it, unless it is in the public domain. An historic opera production
that is not released by a commercial company and would disappear forever
without being preserved as a pirate is entirely another matter. It is
interesting to me that the parent company of a legendary soprano failed to
record her commercially in landmark performances and then missed the boat
completely with the pirates until they had been released for years by others.
It is as if they had been asleep for 20 years!
Patrick Byrne
can...@webtv.net
Kelly and Judy Garland!
Placido 21
in fact the list of those who do not is THREE......Hilarious......and those who
are on the outside..naturally they have NO LIVE CD's OR
TAPES!!!Right??????gimme a break!!!!!! CH
Charlie, baritono somewhat supremo,gradually becoming an internet legend in my
own mind. Soviero and Zeani rule together (with Resnik)
Placido 21
THANKS..Ed Rosen and I have long been considered (by about two
people..oursleves0 great ROMANTIC heroes...Look,Sarah Feeman was so
gagagagagaga over my photos on my website,she propositioned me...but I told her
I already had a pet snake...CH
Matthew B. Tepper
can...@webtv.net pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>Pirates have always been romantic heroes- remember that movie with Gene
>Kelly and Judy Garland!
Geez, haven't you even seen the movie? Gene just *pretends* to be the
evil pirate Makoko; the *real* Makoko, when he is revealed (don't want
to give away too much of the plot) is a pretty nasty guy.
No, let's stick with pictures like "Captain Blood," or "The Sea Hawk."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
can...@webtv.net
wasn't really Makoko, but Judy's character thought he was and that's
good enough for me - not to mention those purple tights kelly wears :)
p.s.I am willing to compromise with "Frenchmen's Creek" - now that 's a
romantic movie.
daniel kessler
for Charlie to throw himself into the Gulf of Naples.
Matthew B. Tepper
dkessl...@bc.cybernex.net pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>Right, they've got a heroic bent. That's why I thought it appropriate
>for Charlie to throw himself into the Gulf of Naples.
After you, my dear Alphonse!
daniel kessler
>In article <79ij21$68i$3...@news.cybernex.net>,
>dkessl...@bc.cybernex.net pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>>
>>Right, they've got a heroic bent. That's why I thought it appropriate
>>for Charlie to throw himself into the Gulf of Naples.
>
>After you, my dear Alphonse!
>
Yes, Gaston, but I'm an experienced scuba diver. Logged in over 2,000
dives..Red Sea, Great Barrier Reef, Maldives, Phlippines, Indonesia,
Seychelles, Fiji, the Caribbean and a few other places.
JessyesFan
plac...@aol.com (Placido 21) wrote:
> Hi..Thanks...Ed Rosen and I have a list of singers who adiore the idea....and
> in fact the list of those who do not is THREE....
So, just out of curiosity, who are the three?
Miss V
My website; http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Arc/4489
Message board for Jessye Norman fans;
http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb279427
Lesbian board; http://www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb279398
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Placido 21
FOUR with REAL sharks.....although they might tajke a look at you and not wantr
that in their tummies.
Placido 21
and the late James McCracken(who cared)?
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> plac...@aol.com (Placido 21) wrote:
>> Hi..Thanks...Ed Rosen and I have a list of singers who adiore the
>> idea....and in fact the list of those who do not is THREE....
>
>So, just out of curiosity, who are the three?
>Miss V
My guess is that one of them, in time, would save nine....
Matthew B. Tepper
plac...@aol.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>Three singers who really object to pirates....Rockwell Blake, Jessye
Could Miss Norman's objections possibly account for certain plot
elements fictionalized in the French film "Diva"?
JessyesFan
plac...@aol.com (Placido 21) wrote:
> Three singers who really iobject to pirates....Rockwell Blake, Jessye Norman
> and the late James McCracken(who cared)?
> own mind. Soviero and Zeani rule together (with Resnik)
>
Ed Rosen
<missv...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>In article <19990207173818...@ng34.aol.com>,
> plac...@aol.com (Placido 21) wrote:
>> Three singers who really iobject to pirates....Rockwell Blake,
Jessye Norman
>> and the late James McCracken(who cared)?
>> Charlie, baritono somewhat supremo,gradually becoming an internet
legend in my
>> own mind. Soviero and Zeani rule together (with Resnik)
>>
>Why does Jessye Norman object?
>Miss V
I don't know myself why Jessye Norman objects. She made a comment that
made the newspapers and local news in NY about 12 or 13 years ago, and
that's how we found out.
I would think that more than 3 singers probably object, but the 3 that
Charlie mentions above are known to us.
Actually, Rockie Blake doesn't seem to mind- his wife is the one.
About 5 years ago I received a call from a gentleman representing
himself as the lawyer for Rockwell Blake. I had and have no reaon not
to believe him. He was very charming and pleasant.
He told me that he had seen a page of our audio cassette listings, and
there were 3 Rockwell Blake performances. "As you know, Rockwell Blake
is the leading Rossini tenor in the world. Surely he is due $250 per
listing" said his attorney. I said, "I'm sure he is, but I can't
believe that the world's leading Rossini tenor needs $250 so badly!!"
What the attorney didn't know was that we probably had many dozens of
Blake performances in our entire catalog, and we certainly never could
have afforded to pay $250 per performance. We agreed that we would
leave his performances out of our catalog, which we have done.
Best,
Ed
OmbraRecds
performance for his "pirates". It is interesting to me that the greatest
singers ever, Corelli, Tebaldi, Gencer don't seem to make a fuss over this
subject. The voice of the Century loved receiving "pirates" from her fans and
spent many happy hours listening in her elegant apartment in Paris. Me thinks
those less secure make rthe most noise.
Patrick Byrne
Ombra
JessyesFan
> >Why does Jessye Norman object?
> >Miss V
>
> I don't know myself why Jessye Norman objects. She made a comment that
> made the newspapers and local news in NY about 12 or 13 years ago, and
> that's how we found out.
>
> I would think that more than 3 singers probably object, but the 3 that
> Charlie mentions above are known to us.
>
> Actually, Rockie Blake doesn't seem to mind- his wife is the one.
>
> About 5 years ago I received a call from a gentleman representing
> himself as the lawyer for Rockwell Blake. I had and have no reaon not
> to believe him. He was very charming and pleasant.
>
> He told me that he had seen a page of our audio cassette listings, and
> there were 3 Rockwell Blake performances. "As you know, Rockwell Blake
> is the leading Rossini tenor in the world. Surely he is due $250 per
> listing" said his attorney. I said, "I'm sure he is, but I can't
> believe that the world's leading Rossini tenor needs $250 so badly!!"
>
> What the attorney didn't know was that we probably had many dozens of
> Blake performances in our entire catalog, and we certainly never could
> have afforded to pay $250 per performance. We agreed that we would
> leave his performances out of our catalog, which we have done.
>
> Best,
> Ed
>
Well, I had read something that happened years ago in Canada, but I
thought Miss Norman's objection was an isolated incident, & she simply
didn't like the way she was represented. It puzzles me, especially
with her, because there have been so many performances that have never
been commercialized. Her career began in 1969, but the first com. video
doesn't come about until the mid 80's, even after that, it is sketchy for
both cd's & videos.
Ed Rosen
I have known Tebaldi well for years, and she has encouraged us
tremendously.
I met Callas once, after a Callas-Di Stefano concert in 1974. I admit
I was nervous. All this talk about how temperamental she could be and
all.
She couldn't have been lovlier. The first thing she said to me was, "I
know what you do. Bravo. Keep up the good work. I enjoy my live
performances much more than my studio recordings."
I needed no better validation, and could not ever get one.
Best,
Ed
Placido 21
Hi,
Someone on the 'outside" of this inmdustry mighjt think singers would object to
the live perf.....but what we know is that they are so thrilled tio have such a
variety of material available that they really love it....and the lack oif
royalty payments never enters into it...I mean,by now ,after about 30 yrs.of
this..and including the CD's now that FLOOD the market....you would thinik
there would be lawsuits like mad..but NO!!
Another interesting point is that singers (even the worst of them) are
basically so secure that they do NOT make fatal errors on non-commercial
recordings....One can tell when one has listened over 30 yrs.to THOUSANDS of
live perf..that they "make it" and so they must realize they are so secure that
they WANT their rarer stuff out there...
Singers call us and write us and meet us and tell us how happy they are about
these perf....so when some of the extremely jealous people( only a handful)
rail against "pirates" we just laugh at them...and also,they have in their
collections ooooodles of these recordings..Actually their "agenda" is NOT to
"hate the pirates" but to show bitterness in a personal way against Ed and
myself.....TRUST me...
Anyway that is some idea of what goes on...as ever Charlie..who sings "Suoni
la troma" with Ed and then we change the opera from Puritani to PIRATA....
Sara Freeman
It ain't gonna keep you out of jail if somebody really wants to put you
there.
>
>
>Best,
>Ed
--
"If you think of reality as the software for the universe,
all it would take is for someone to change a comma
in the program, and the chair you are sitting on
wouldn't be a chair at all." - Jacques Vallee
Sara Freeman
(Placido 21) writes:
>
>
> Hi,
>Someone on the 'outside" of this inmdustry mighjt think singers would
object to
>the live perf.....but what we know is that they are so thrilled tio
have such a
>variety of material available that they really love it....and the lack
oif
>royalty payments never enters into it...I mean,by now ,after about 30
yrs.of
>this..and including the CD's now that FLOOD the market....you would
thinik
>there would be lawsuits like mad..but NO!!
> Another interesting point is that singers (even the worst of them)
are
>basically so secure that they do NOT make fatal errors
Most singing errors are not fatal.
on non-commercial
>recordings....One can tell when one has listened over 30 yrs.to
THOUSANDS of
>live perf..that they "make it" and so they must realize they are so
secure that
>they WANT their rarer stuff out there...
>Singers call us and write us and meet us and tell us how happy they
are about
>these perf....so when some of the extremely jealous people( only a
handful)
>rail against "pirates" we just laugh at them...and also,they have in
their
>collections ooooodles of these recordings..Actually their "agenda" is
NOT to
>"hate the pirates" but to show bitterness in a personal way against Ed
and
>myself.....TRUST me...
It ain't gonna keep you out of jail if somebody really wants to put you
there.
>Anyway that is some idea of what goes on...as ever Charlie..who
sings "Suoni
>la troma" with Ed and then we change the opera from Puritani to
PIRATA....
> Charlie, baritono somewhat supremo,gradually becoming an internet
legend in my
>own mind. Soviero and Zeani rule together (with Resnik)
>
--
dtritter
performance tape/lp/cd, as our friends rosen and handelman do. if she
were as expert in the law as she is in irrelevant vitriol, she might
have one of her right wing friends [or do they also disown her?] inform
her that the district and/or united states attorneys' offices have no
interest in prosecuting such matters, though konstipated ken starr might
try to concoct a spurious case with the aid of a few tens of millions of
taxpayer funds.
in brief [a style oft demonstrated here by sara's hit and run mishits],
you don't know what you're talking about. a civil wrong, perhaps. as to
the rest, no matter how you beg, sara, i don't think ed or charlie plan
to send you any complimentary copies.
dft
Placido 21
institution for the permanently nasty
Placido 21
did not cintain her usual gestapo-like approach...but that is fine...keeps us
honest......CH
Matthew B. Tepper
will know who you are.
And people will know where you live.
In article <79phu0$m...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, fre...@ix.netcom.com
pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>
>In <79pdj9$b...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed
>Rosen) writes:
>>
>>In <19990209005039...@ng-cf1.aol.com> ombra...@aol.com
>>(OmbraRecds) writes:
>>>
>>>Dear Ed, what an amusing recounting of Blakes' lawyer demanding
>>>$250.00 per performance for his "pirates". It is interesting to me
>>>that the greatest singers ever, Corelli, Tebaldi, Gencer don't seem
>>>to make a fuss over this subject. The voice of the Century loved
>>>receiving "pirates" from her fans and spent many happy hours
>>>listening in her elegant apartment in Paris. Me thinks those less
>>>secure make rthe most noise.
>>>
>>>Patrick Byrne
>>>Ombra
>>
>>I have known Tebaldi well for years, and she has encouraged us
>>tremendously.
>>
>>I met Callas once, after a Callas-Di Stefano concert in 1974. I admit
>>I was nervous. All this talk about how temperamental she could be and
>>all.
>>
>>She couldn't have been lovlier. The first thing she said to me was,
>"I
>>know what you do. Bravo. Keep up the good work. I enjoy my live
>>performances much more than my studio recordings."
>>
>>I needed no better validation, and could not ever get one.
>
>It ain't gonna keep you out of jail if somebody really wants to put you
>there.
>
>>Best,
>>Ed
>
>--
>"If you think of reality as the software for the universe,
>all it would take is for someone to change a comma
>in the program, and the chair you are sitting on
>wouldn't be a chair at all." - Jacques Vallee
--
Sara Freeman
The Met has managed to keep the pirates from selling their
performances, and, if another performing center or artist wanted to
make a big enough stink they could do so.
I notice that you didn't say that they were in their legal right to do
what they do.
Why would I want to beg anybody for stolen goods?
dtritter
by threat of civil action, nothing whatever to do with criminal law.
Sara Freeman wrote:
>
> Why would I want to beg anybody for stolen goods?
in sara's case, almost anything would represent an improvement.
dft
OmbraRecds
must not be very involved in opera. No you can't go to New York Tower and buy a
Met performance on CD. No names mentioned, but all that stuff from the 40s on
has been available for years. I know of an opera fan who has nearly every
single Met performance you can think of. Outside the U.S. the Met stuff is on
commercial shelves everywhere. Also, don't you think this topic is getting a
little "thread"bare? PCB
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>performances, and, if another performing center or artist wanted to
>make a big enough stink they could do so.
>
>I notice that you didn't say that they were in their legal right to do
>what they do.
And indeed they have managed to suppress the trade (in the United States,
anyway) of recordings of greater than 50 years' provenance, which appears
still to be the copyright limit. This brings up the interesting question
of whether the Met, and its lawyers, are themselves doing something
unlawful -- called restraint of trade. Or maybe racketeering?
>Why would I want to beg anybody for stolen goods?
What if Jorma Hynninen were to authorize a CD to be issued by Ed Rosen?
Ed Rosen
>
>n.b.: the met and san francisco, et.al., have held fast to their
rights
>by threat of civil action, nothing whatever to do with criminal law.
It would seem that the Met has no real control out of the USA. Look at
what Naxos has been able to do!!
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>(OmbraRecds) writes:
>>
>>"the Met has managed to keep pirates from selling their
>>performances..." You must not be very involved in opera.
>
>
>>No you can't go to New York Tower and buy a Met performance on CD.
>>No names mentioned, but all that stuff from the 40s on has been
>>available for years. I know of an opera fan who has nearly every
>>single Met performance you can think of. Outside the U.S. the Met
>>stuff is on commercial shelves everywhere. Also, don't you think
>>this topic is getting a little "thread"bare?
This is ironic, considering how dominated the music industry is by
cokeheads and others with connections to organized crime.
Matthew B. Tepper
>In <79qel4$r...@chronicle.concentric.net> ducky兀deltanet.com (Matthew
>B. Tepper) writes:
>>
>>In article <79q919$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
>>>performances, and, if another performing center or artist wanted to
>>>make a big enough stink they could do so.
>>>
>>>I notice that you didn't say that they were in their legal right to
>>>do what they do.
>>
>>And indeed they have managed to suppress the trade (in the United
>>States, anyway) of recordings of greater than 50 years' provenance,
>>which appears still to be the copyright limit. This brings up the
>>interesting question of whether the Met, and its lawyers, are
>>themselves doing something unlawful -- called restraint of trade.
>
>copyright to be restraint of trade?
After the copyright has expired, they don't own it any more.
>Or maybe racketeering?
>>
>>>Why would I want to beg anybody for stolen goods?
>>
>>What if Jorma Hynninen were to authorize a CD to be issued by Ed
>>Rosen?
>>
>I've got plenty of Hynninen stuff. I don't have to turn to sources such
>as Legato.
Sara Freeman
(OmbraRecds) writes:
>
>"the Met has managed to keep pirates from selling their
performances..." You
>must not be very involved in opera.
I've loved opera for years, but I only buy from legitimate stores.
No you can't go to New York Tower and buy a
>Met performance on CD. No names mentioned, but all that stuff from the
40s on
>has been available for years. I know of an opera fan who has nearly
every
>single Met performance you can think of. Outside the U.S. the Met
stuff is on
>commercial shelves everywhere. Also, don't you think this topic is
getting a
>little "thread"bare? PCB
Sara Freeman
B. Tepper) writes:
>
>In article <79q919$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
fre...@ix.netcom.com
>pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>>
>>The Met has managed to keep the pirates from selling their
>>performances, and, if another performing center or artist wanted to
>>make a big enough stink they could do so.
>>
>>I notice that you didn't say that they were in their legal right to
do
>>what they do.
>
>And indeed they have managed to suppress the trade (in the United
States,
>anyway) of recordings of greater than 50 years' provenance, which
appears
>still to be the copyright limit. This brings up the interesting
question
>of whether the Met, and its lawyers, are themselves doing something
>unlawful -- called restraint of trade.
How could refusing to let somebody else sell something that you have a
copyright to be restraint of trade?
Or maybe racketeering?
>
>>Why would I want to beg anybody for stolen goods?
>
>What if Jorma Hynninen were to authorize a CD to be issued by Ed
Rosen?
>
I've got plenty of Hynninen stuff. I don't have to turn to sources such
as Legato.
>--
>Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
>My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
>My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
>And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
>To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
>
--
Placido 21
bett yuou never go there....you are a bigger fool than even kasimer.......but
thqanks...you have given Ed and I many customers..bedause thye are curious
about our cata;logues and ask for them...I am sending you a commission..a date
with Emma.......CH
Skip
OmbraRecds
are you? "free" from what?
PCB
Deborah Overes
Sara Freeman wrote in message <79q919$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>...
>The Met has managed to keep the pirates from selling their
>performances, and, if another performing center or artist wanted to
>make a big enough stink they could do so.
The Met has managed this only in the United States as far as I know. The
recordings are available elsewhere.
Deborah Overes
"I think I saw him in Rent or Stomp or Clomp or SOME piece of crap"
- Homer Simpson
wk...@juno.com
Skip <w...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> is there something wrong with your keyboard?
No. Many years ago, my TV repairman diplomatically referred to it
as "operator trouble".
Bill
William D. Kasimer
wk...@juno.com
James Kahn
>In article <79q919$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, fre...@ix.netcom.com
>pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>>
>>The Met has managed to keep the pirates from selling their
>>performances, and, if another performing center or artist wanted to
>>make a big enough stink they could do so.
>And indeed they have managed to suppress the trade (in the United States,
>anyway) of recordings of greater than 50 years' provenance, which appears
>still to be the copyright limit. This brings up the interesting question
>of whether the Met, and its lawyers, are themselves doing something
>unlawful -- called restraint of trade. Or maybe racketeering?
C'mon, that's like saying I'm engaging in restraint of trade when I
lock my door to keep burglars out of my apartment.
--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn
Brian Moore
...
>
>C'mon, that's like saying I'm engaging in restraint of trade when I
>lock my door to keep burglars out of my apartment.
>--
My analogy would be more like this. You leave a painting out on
your front yard. I say to you "hey, you mind if I take a picture
of your painting?" and you fail to respond.
--
Brian G. Moore, School of Science, Penn State Erie--The Behrend College
bg...@psu.edu , (814)-898-6334
Sara Freeman
>
>is there something wrong with your keyboard?
After all this time that Charlie the Pirate has been posting like that,
why did you finally get around to asking?
Actually it's not his keyboard; it's his brain, or lack thereof.
>
>Placido 21 wrote:
>>
>> What a joke you are!LEGITIMATE stores???TRower sells all the pirate
cD's..and I
>> bett yuou never go there....you are a bigger fool than even
kasimer.......but
>> thqanks...you have given Ed and I many customers..bedause thye are
curious
>> about our cata;logues and ask for them...I am sending you a
commission..a date
>> with Emma.......CH
>> Charlie, baritono somewhat supremo,gradually becoming an internet
legend in my
>> own mind. Soviero and Zeani rule together (with Resnik)
>>
--
Sara Freeman
(Placido 21) writes:
>
>What a joke you are!LEGITIMATE stores???TRower sells all the pirate
cD's..
That's not what I buy.
and I
>bett yuou never go there....
Well, gee, then I wonder where those thousands of dollars that I
thought I was giving to Tower over the years has gone to.
you are a bigger fool than even kasimer.......but
>thqanks...you have given Ed and I many customers..bedause thye are
curious
>about our cata;logues and ask for them...I am sending you a
commission..a date
>with Emma.......CH
Well, I would learn a lot more about opera from him than I would on a
date with you . . . perish the thought of that ever happening.
Sara Freeman
(OmbraRecds) writes:
>
>Since when has the music business ever been legitimate?
Gee, I find a lot of legitimate stuff to buy.
By the way, exactly WHO
>are you? "free" from what?
>
>PCB
--
Sara Freeman
Overes" <dov...@sprint.ca> writes:
>
>
>Sara Freeman wrote in message
<79q919$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>...
>>performances, and, if another performing center or artist wanted to
>>make a big enough stink they could do so.
>
>
The
>recordings are available elsewhere.
The United States is a pretty big place, you know.
>
>Deborah Overes
>"I think I saw him in Rent or Stomp or Clomp or SOME piece of crap"
> - Homer Simpson
>
>
>
--
James Kahn
>In article <79s5bn$gaf$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
>...
>>
>>C'mon, that's like saying I'm engaging in restraint of trade when I
>>lock my door to keep burglars out of my apartment.
>>--
>My analogy would be more like this. You leave a painting out on
>your front yard. I say to you "hey, you mind if I take a picture
>of your painting?" and you fail to respond.
I don't follow your analogy, but I misread Matthew's allegation, which
was that the Met was engaged in restraint of trade with respect
to recordings whose copyright *had expired*. So I withdraw the comment.
I would say, though, that the mere fact that these recordings are not
widely available is hardly evidence for "racketeering". I'm not a
lawyer, but I presume the Met is not obliged to release the master
tapes to anyone who wants them.
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>In <79qel4$r...@chronicle.concentric.net> du...@deltanet.com (Matthew B.
Tepper) writes:
>
>>In article <79q919$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
>>fre...@ix.netcom.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows...
>>>
>>>performances, and, if another performing center or artist wanted to
>>>make a big enough stink they could do so.
>
>>States, anyway) of recordings of greater than 50 years' provenance,
>>which appears still to be the copyright limit. This brings up the
>>interesting question of whether the Met, and its lawyers, are
>>themselves doing something unlawful -- called restraint of trade. Or
>>maybe racketeering?
>
>lock my door to keep burglars out of my apartment.
Bad simile. A much better parallel would be to the trees outside your
apartment, if you began to howl, "Nobody is allowed to take pictures of
these trees except for me, me, ME, ME, MEEEEE!"
Then again, we might just think you were warming up to sing. ;--)
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>(OmbraRecds) writes:
>>
>>Since when has the music business ever been legitimate?
>
>Gee, I find a lot of legitimate stuff to buy.
And the cocaine dealers who benefit from these transactions are grateful.
Matthew B. Tepper
>
>...
>>
>>C'mon, that's like saying I'm engaging in restraint of trade when I
>>lock my door to keep burglars out of my apartment.
>
>My analogy would be more like this. You leave a painting out on
>your front yard. I say to you "hey, you mind if I take a picture
>of your painting?" and you fail to respond.
No, not a painting; the trees.
wk...@juno.com
ducky兀deltanet.com (Matthew B. Tepper) wrote:
> >My analogy would be more like this. You leave a painting out on
> >your front yard. I say to you "hey, you mind if I take a picture
> >of your painting?" and you fail to respond.
>
> No, not a painting; the trees.
While no doubt your choice makes your opposition appear a bit sillier, a
painting is certainly a much more logical analogy.
Bill
Matthew B. Tepper
pondering as follows...
>
>In article <79se5q$l...@journal.concentric.net>,
> ducky兀deltanet.com (Matthew B. Tepper) wrote:
>
>> >My analogy would be more like this. You leave a painting out on
>> >your front yard. I say to you "hey, you mind if I take a picture
>> >of your painting?" and you fail to respond.
>>
>> No, not a painting; the trees.
>
>While no doubt your choice makes your opposition appear a bit sillier, a
>painting is certainly a much more logical analogy.
I disagree; a painting may be owned in perpetuity, but the trees belong to
everyone.
James Kahn
>>While no doubt your choice makes your opposition appear a bit sillier, a
>>painting is certainly a much more logical analogy.
>I disagree; a painting may be owned in perpetuity, but the trees belong to
>everyone.
Huh? A tree in my front yard belongs to ME. If you start picking the
fruit off of it, I could have you arrested for trespassing and theft.
As to what I could do if you took a picture of it and started selling
copies, I'm not sure what the law is.
Dale Erwin
>
> In article <79sm00$1ui$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, wk...@juno.com pondered what I'm
> pondering as follows...
> >
> >In article <79se5q$l...@journal.concentric.net>,
> > ducky兀deltanet.com (Matthew B. Tepper) wrote:
> >
> >> >My analogy would be more like this. You leave a painting out on
> >> >your front yard. I say to you "hey, you mind if I take a picture
> >> >of your painting?" and you fail to respond.
> >>
> >> No, not a painting; the trees.
> >
> >painting is certainly a much more logical analogy.
>
> I disagree; a painting may be owned in perpetuity, but the trees belong to
> everyone.
>
What about his house? He owns his house. Is it illegal to
photograph his house from a public street corner because he
owns it? I think they are both bad analogies. Actually, the
entire question of protection of copyrights and other issues
concerning intellectual property is very controversial and
legally confusing.
You may say it's stupid to compare a house with a painting
because there's no artistic or intellectual creation being
copied, but the architect might strongly disagree with you.
--
Dale Erwin
TomKauf2
within their rights. And I can't think of any Met performance for years that I
would watto bother with (too much Domingo, and too dull a repertory--but that's
my taste).
But it's interesting to note that they(Opera News) accept ads from companies
hawking the tapes that belong to other opera houses. Come to think of it, does
the Met Opera Shop sell private label CDs originating in Paris or
Milan--haven't been there in years. Of course, I am all for them--a least they
do intersting stuff.
If it weren't for the pirates, we would all have to make do with a more limited
repertory (no Robert le Diable, for instance), and inferior performances--no
Carreras Adriana Lecouvreur for instance.
Just wondering
Tom
Sara Freeman
(TomKauf2) writes:
>
>The Met has objected for years to piracy of their performances--and
(IMHO) are
>within their rights. And I can't think of any Met performance for
years that I
>would watto bother with (too much Domingo, and too dull a
repertory--but that's
>my taste).
>
>But it's interesting to note that they(Opera News) accept ads from
companies
>hawking the tapes that belong to other opera houses.
Yes, considering the multi-page spreads of Bel Canto in the pages of
Opera News, this does seem hypocritcal, although Opera News is a
publication of the Metropolitan Opera Guild, which has some
independence of the Met Opera.
Come to think of it, does
>the Met Opera Shop sell private label CDs originating in Paris or
>Milan
The only thing I buy from the shop is stuff like Fafner shower curtains
and tote bags, etc. I never look too much at their CDs because they
always charge top dollar. I can get them cheaper elsewhere. I'll try to
remember to look next time.
--haven't been there in years. Of course, I am all for them--a least
they
>do intersting stuff.
>
>If it weren't for the pirates, we would all have to make do with a
more limited
>repertory (no Robert le Diable, for instance), and inferior
performances--no
>Carreras Adriana Lecouvreur for instance.
>
>Just wondering
>
>Tom
--
Sara Freeman
<D2AE1AD75CE4509F.5F9E0764...@library-proxy.airne
s.net> Dale Erwin <der...@airmail.net> writes:
>
>Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>
>> In article <79sm00$1ui$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, wk...@juno.com pondered
what I'm
>> pondering as follows...
>> >
>> >In article <79se5q$l...@journal.concentric.net>,
>> > ducky兀deltanet.com (Matthew B. Tepper) wrote:
>> >
>> >> >My analogy would be more like this. You leave a painting out on
>> >> >your front yard. I say to you "hey, you mind if I take a
picture
>> >> >of your painting?" and you fail to respond.
>> >>
>> >> No, not a painting; the trees.
>> >
>> >While no doubt your choice makes your opposition appear a bit
sillier, a
>> >painting is certainly a much more logical analogy.
>>
>> I disagree; a painting may be owned in perpetuity, but the trees
belong to
>> everyone.
>>
>
>What about his house? He owns his house. Is it illegal to
>photograph his house from a public street corner because he
>owns it?
I used to be an avid photographer, but I don't think it is illegal to
photograph a house or a tree that is on someone else's property. The
question of whether I have a right to sell for my own profit pictures
of that house and tree is a little more nebulous. (I never sold any
photograph; it was only a hobby.)
I think they are both bad analogies. Actually, the
>entire question of protection of copyrights and other issues
>concerning intellectual property is very controversial and
>legally confusing.
>
>You may say it's stupid to compare a house with a painting
>because there's no artistic or intellectual creation being
>copied, but the architect might strongly disagree with you.
The architect? I used to work for an architect in marketing, but he
didn't do houses. Most architects of most houses are not even known.
No, architecture is not a glamorous career for most. I can't think of
an instance where an architect sued because a picture was taken of a
building he designed. Architecture is much more than the outside of a
building. Most architects love the publicity of their building being
photographed, but if you were to get access to their plans and
blueprints so that someone else could duplicate that building I don't
think they would be any too happy.
>--
>Dale Erwin
OmbraRecds
live performances in their adjacent shop, etc.
Patrick Byrne
Brian Moore
...
>>
>
>What about his house? He owns his house. Is it illegal to
>photograph his house from a public street corner because he
>entire question of protection of copyrights and other issues
>concerning intellectual property is very controversial and
>legally confusing.
>
I agree. I did not mean my analogy to really be taken seriously, but
rather I had hoped to show that in some ways it is as plausible as
the silly other analogies that had been presented which invoked
comparisons with rapists, burglars and murderers.
Sara Freeman
But not all "live" recordings are pirates, and some "live" recordings
used to be pirates, before permission was given to publish.