Verismo
renee
gerberk
Leonard Tillman
>What is verismo anyway"
After Verdi's operas, this style of dramatic presentation, "verismo",
literally meaning "realism", came into being.
Unlike the then-more traditional operas with the royal, historical,
mythical, and other "grander than life" protagonists of classical
literature, - verismo focused on the so-called "common" men and women,
their lives, and very down-to-earth hardships.
The most popular examples would be the works of Mascagni and
Leoncavallo (respectively and chiefly "Cavalleria Rusticana" and
"Pagliacci"), and of course, Puccini, each with their stark,
emotionally striking musical/dramatic colors, compelling from seconds
before the first note, all the way to the moments following the very
last.
These operas remain popular in their special way, due to their
profound effects upon those of us who love them so.
Best,
LT
"Of one thing, you may be absolutely sure:
A clean tie will wind up with the soup du jour."
renee
Thanks for this beautiful site on cats.I doubt if it has anything to do with
Verismo but it's a nice site.
Hugs and Kisses
Renee
btw do you like Verismo Opera and do you believe there is any truth in these
stories?
gerberk
e.g.the story of Tosca is not about real life.Real life is different .The
people in Tosca are in no way normal people who live normal lifes.It's Opera
.Most Operatic plots of the Verismo genre are totally unbelievable.And so
they should probably.But with Truth or Realism it has nothing to do.
Regards
"Leonard Tillman" <tapef...@webtv.net> schreef in bericht
news:8721-3EF...@storefull-2276.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Giovanni Abrate
pure verismo operas like Il Tabarro, clearly not all his operas are Verismo
operas. Even Mascagni moved between genres, with Verismo, classical grand
opera and even "Sinfonismo" operas and later works in the vein of the
Giovine Scuola. What about Boito, who incorporated Verismo in his philosophy
of life but wrote works that were grand in scope, classical in their
subjects and rich in symphonic orchestration. The Prologue to Mefistofele,
written by the archetypical verista poet and artist is certainly not
verismo. Mascagni's Inno al Sole follows the same musical inspiration.
Illica was a verista who wrote espressionist poetry. The list goes on and
on, with contradictions and about turns.
Alfano wrote Resurrezione in a Russian and French- influenced form of
verismo, then progressed through expressionist works that are so
characteristic of the Giovine Scuola.
The truth is that the late 1800s and early 1900s were a time of
experimentation and renewal. The music world was fluid, Puccini was
influenced by the new musical languages and absorbed them into his art.
Others did the same, Mascagni for one, and Giordano.
Verismo gave us Korngold and Respighi, not as direct followers of that
movement, but because of the way it changed the way in which opera was
written. Some said that Honegger, Malipiero, Casella and even Hindemith
would not have been able to develop their form of musical theater without
the road opened by the veristi.
In France, Bruneau and Charpentier were veristas, or at least precursors
ante-litteram, and arguably so was Bizet.
We need to resurrect many of the verismo operas that are these days
forgotte; i, for one, would love to hear Pedrollo's "Delitto e castigo",
just to name one work.
So, Verismo means a lot of different things and was ñolded into different
musical styles by many composers. It broke the tradition of the grand opera
Umbertina and injected enthusiasm and energy to a level that has never been
equalled.
Giovanni
"gerberk" <ger...@home.nl> wrote in message
news:bcqrr7$q0d$1...@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Leonard Tillman
>Verismo is realism ?
I see now that the answer is emphatically no.
From your website,
http://www.verismocat.com/
- we now realize that Verismo is about the resplendent and likeable Coon
Cat.
>So they say,
And how wrong they be..
>but come on Leonard that is not
> true.
I... I...know, I've admitted that.
>e.g.the story of Tosca is not about real
> life.Real life is different .The people in Tosca
> are in no way normal people who live normal
> lifes.It's Opera .Most Operatic plots of the
> Verismo genre are totally unbelievable.And
> so they should probably.But with Truth or
> Realism it has nothing to do.
Aha.
>Regards
Regards,
LT
--------------------------
Jeffrey Snider
AAAGGHH! It's my doctoral exams all over again! What next, a question on
Medieval and Renaissance theory treatises?
It's like a horrible dream...
Leonard Tillman
Perhaps, it could serve as the inspiration for a....verismo opera?
renee
those operas then get stuck with the "verismo" label to the extent that
even their non-verismo operas were lumped together under that heading.
But I also think that there are characteristics of Verismo operas that
enable works like ANDREA CHENIER, FEDORA, and ADRIANA LECOUVREUR, though
they DO feature aristocratic characters, to still be Verismo, while operas
like MIREILLE and LA VIDA BREVE, though they have a lot of Verismo
characteristics when it comes to plot and character types, are not.
I think one of the main features of Verismo operas is the lack of
artificial refinement of the characters when it comes to their emotional
responses. The aristocrats in Verismo operas act just like everyone else -
there's no distinction drawn by a more restrained, refined way of behaving
and responding, the way there is in earlier (Verdi, Bel Canto, etc.)
operas. These characters, in essence, typify what Verdi himself said about
DON CARLOS - It was a purely domestic story that just happened to be set
in a royal court. Given the presence of the Inquisition in that opera, I'm
not sure I completely agree with Verdi's assessment, but I think what he
was trying to say about DON CARLO *is* true of Verismo opera, whether it's
about Counts and Princesses or about Sicilian peasants and street singers:
the characters all act like "just plain folks", and don't allow their
social role or class prevent them from following their basest instincts
and acting in the roughest (crudest) possible way. One always gets the
sense that the "aristocrats" in Verismo operas are really just peasants in
fine clothes - the exact opposite, in fact, of the noble peasants of
earlier operas who seemed like aristocrats in shabby dress.
Without any restraints, the characters of verismo opera also employ vocal
technique differently - no need to be to refined or self-controlled about
those swoopy portamenti, for example, or creating vocal effects that are
true to the cruder aspects of the character, even if the results are not
aesthetically beautiful. Ditto the compositions themselves, which tend to
use musical effects a bit more crudely - to create unambiguous, unsubtle
emotional impact - i.e., musical effects that are not filtered through
some kind of symbolism glass: once upon a time, for example, fioratura
conveyed a message about the character; in verismo fioratura would be used
only to do what it, on its most literal level, actually does: it shows off
what the voice can do. A verismo Lucia would never pour out her tragic
emotions in a coloratura cadenza. In fact, the only verismo character that
would ever do a coloratura cadenza would be an opera singer character
onstage singing a Bel Canto opera in a scene that called for it.
Interestingly, there are operas that seem ALMOST verismo - like LA VIDA
BREVE. What prevents de Falla's opera from being true verismo, however, is
the very UN-Verismo ending. A Verismo Salud would have committed suicide
by unambiguous means. Literally dying of a broken heart is a very
UNverismo way of "going" - unless it's through starvation over a number of
weeks. Simply dropping dead from sorrow is NOT Verismo. Stabbing one's
self in sorrow is.
So the *realism* of Verismo is really in the HUMANITY of the characters,
not necessarily in the situations. I agree, there is much that is very
unrealistic about the PLOT of Tosca. The people, however, are all very
realistic and very much "plain old folks", despite their titles and job
descriptions. There is no essential difference between Tosca's jealousy
and self-delusion and Santuzza's despite their very different careers and
social circles.
"Giovanni Abrate" <try...@adelphia.net> schreef in bericht
news:Md8Ia.2974$Hw.29...@news2.news.adelphia.net...
Luca Logi
> Verismo is realism ?
If I do remember, we already discussed this question several years ago.
I remember writing that the term "verismo" was born as a literary
current, the Italian branch of the French naturalism, the main author
being Verga. There was a season, around 1890, when veristic (I use the
term in its literary meaning) subject swere very popular, starting with
Mascagni's Cavalleria and Leoncavallo's Pagliacci, but including less
known operas like Giordano's Mala vita, or Spinelli's A basso porto.
The term verismo was later used to name authors and opera written in the
musical style of Cavalleria, no matter the subject. In this sense,
Giordano is a verista even when singing about French poets and Russian
widows, but it is an extension of the original meaning term. Now most
people prefer to use the term in a narrower sense - only very realistic
operas deserve the verismo tag, but the tag was once freely used.
A more neutral term to tag the Italian opera composers in the nineties
(Mascagni, Leoncavallo, Puccini, Giordano and so on) could be "giovane
scuola".
--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: ll...@dada.it
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 06/19/2003 11:39 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <1fwt0fv.1yhox3fspvjmgN%ll...@dada.it>
The question that fascinates me is how did verismo evolve.
I would trace its initial impetus as descending from LA TRAVIATA (1853) where
Verdi first experimented with a more naturalistic approach both to his
characters and his musical style.
The "Imponete" (towards the end of the Violetta/Germont dialogue) is made up of
swit interchanges between the characters, tiny pauses, quite realistic. "Non
sapete" manages to convey Violetta's physical and emotional condition (short
breaths and one can almost sense rapid heart beats).
There are, of course, the trappings of late Romantic opera, but I believe
"verismo" was born here.
I think Bizet's CARMEN (1875) constitutes yet another milestone. Specifically
I think of the last act duet which virtually presages the Santuzza/Turiddu
duet.
Mascagni's verismo is leavened by a religious motif (that seems to me derived
from FORZA) and raises CAVALLERIA (1890) far above other works of this genre.
Puccini's only predominantly veristic opera, imho, is IL TABARRO (1918), and he
even finds it useful to borrow from Stravinsky (the out-of-tune barrel organ I
think derivesfrom PETRUSHKA).
ANDREA CHENIER (1896), praised by Verdi no less, is sometimes referred to as a
verismo opera, but I don't see it that way. I think it is veristic only in the
sense that LES HUGUENOTS is: liberally borrowing from a violently historic
period while embedding a wholly fictitious love story.
"Nemico della patria" is a superb aria, yet I think it is no more verstic than
"Eri tu."
By the way, I seem to recall that the young school was also referred to
as"scapigliati" (sp).
I am not sure exactly what is connoted by that term.
==G/P Dave
gerberk
I'd rather go out with you in Paris.
Walk along the Seine at night Just you and me and we dont care about Verismo
or whatever.
"renee" <re...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:bcsnr9$nh$1...@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Giovanni Abrate
popular among the intellectuals and artists in Italy (and elsewhere) at the
turn of the past century. The term means "with ruffled hair", a reference to
the hair style of these artists.
Giovanni
"GRNDPADAVE" <grndp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030619130110...@mb-m01.aol.com...
> >From: ll...@dada.it (Luca Logi)
Elizabeth Hubbell
gerberk wrote:
>
> Renee as much as i love these intellectual discussions on whatever subject
> I'd rather go out with you in Paris.
> Walk along the Seine at night Just you and me and we dont care about Verismo
> or whatever.
Uh-huh. I see. So Gerberk is becoming a troll? Trying to deflect
discussion from what happens to be an uncomfortably enthusiastic and
knowledgeable posting on a fascinating subject? Renee happened to put
some careful thought into these detailed remarks, and the last thing we
want, I suppose, is to give Renee the simple courtesy of discussing
them. Right?
Typical r.m.o. junk!===================>
>
> "renee" <re...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
> news:bcsnr9$nh$1...@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> > I tend to think that certain operas are Verismo, and that the composers of
> > those operas then get stuck with the "verismo" label to the extent that
> > even their non-verismo operas were lumped together under that heading.
True enough. And an additional factor here may simply be chronology:
the musical period in which these works were composed.
> >
> > But I also think that there are characteristics of Verismo operas that
> > enable works like ANDREA CHENIER, FEDORA, and ADRIANA LECOUVREUR, though
> > they DO feature aristocratic characters, to still be Verismo, while operas
> > like MIREILLE and LA VIDA BREVE, though they have a lot of Verismo
> > characteristics when it comes to plot and character types, are not.
> >
> > I think one of the main features of Verismo operas is the lack of
> > artificial refinement of the characters when it comes to their emotional
> > responses. The aristocrats in Verismo operas act just like everyone else -
> > there's no distinction drawn by a more restrained, refined way of behaving
> > and responding, the way there is in earlier (Verdi, Bel Canto, etc.)
> > operas. These characters, in essence, typify what Verdi himself said about
> > DON CARLOS - It was a purely domestic story that just happened to be set
> > in a royal court. Given the presence of the Inquisition in that opera, I'm
> > not sure I completely agree with Verdi's assessment, but I think what he
> > was trying to say about DON CARLO *is* true of Verismo opera, whether it's
> > about Counts and Princesses or about Sicilian peasants and street singers:
> > the characters all act like "just plain folks", and don't allow their
> > social role or class prevent them from following their basest instincts
> > and acting in the roughest (crudest) possible way. One always gets the
> > sense that the "aristocrats" in Verismo operas are really just peasants in
> > fine clothes - the exact opposite, in fact, of the noble peasants of
> > earlier operas who seemed like aristocrats in shabby dress.
Obviously, the poster is on to something. In addition, one might say
that there is a continuum leading to verismo rather than it being simply
a matter of an arbitrary switch being thrown in 1890 with Mascagni's
Cavalleria Rusticana. That's when verismo becomes full-blown, no
question. But I definitely accept both Don Carlos and Traviata as
instances within the continuum leading to verismo in a way that Verdi
(presciently?) anticipated. And yes, "peasants" in earlier operas do
tend to be aristocrats in shabby attire.
> >
> > Without any restraints, the characters of verismo opera also employ vocal
> > technique differently - no need to be to refined or self-controlled about
> > those swoopy portamenti, for example, or creating vocal effects that are
> > true to the cruder aspects of the character, even if the results are not
> > aesthetically beautiful. Ditto the compositions themselves, which tend to
> > use musical effects a bit more crudely - to create unambiguous, unsubtle
> > emotional impact - i.e., musical effects that are not filtered through
> > some kind of symbolism glass: once upon a time, for example, fioratura
> > conveyed a message about the character; in verismo fioratura would be used
> > only to do what it, on its most literal level, actually does: it shows off
> > what the voice can do. A verismo Lucia would never pour out her tragic
> > emotions in a coloratura cadenza. In fact, the only verismo character that
> > would ever do a coloratura cadenza would be an opera singer character
> > onstage singing a Bel Canto opera in a scene that called for it.
The irony is, IMO (and, again, I agree with the poster's point), that
non-bel-canto singers today are more often fobbed off on the public now
in Wagner, for instance, rather than in the full-blown Verismo works (I
hasten to add I would wish that all singers that we hear throughout the
repertoire could be true bel-canto singers who also have the live
feelings for words, interpretation and stage action that is essential in
both Verismo and Wagner, but......).
Allocating - ironically - the less bel-canto-oriented singers to Wagner
rather than verismo is probably due to the simple fact that a whopping
plurality of both the bel canto works and the full-blown verismo works
just happen to be in Italian. So the bel-canto singers get heard more
in the Verismo. But this is an unfortunate reason all the same.
Instead, one sees in Wagner more trills, more agility (vide Kundry in
Parsifal, Act II), more classic-style phrasing, more "aristocratic"
elevation, if you will, in the vocal line than in Verismo.
Renee is right that the abandonment of a whole canon of vocal effects
are practically - though not entirely - jettisoned in Verismo.
Moreover, while I stated earlier that there was a continuum toward
Verismo leading up to 1890 and Cavalleria as a kind of summation, such
is not the case, IMHO, when it comes to vocal style. In this latter
regard, it strikes me that there is a much more abrupt break. In fact,
Cavalleria really does seem to mark something discrete and fateful from
which there was no turning back. Singing, arguably, becomes more
overtly a form of speech than ever before.
An interesting sidenote here: a good part of Cavalleria's success may
have been due to Gemma Bellincioni's creation of the role of Santuzza.
She was a magnetic artist whose records may show some vocal unevenness,
but whose sense of characterization and vivid communication remains
startling. In fact, coming full circle -- flawed vocal technique et al
-- Verdi was a great admirer of her Violetta in his Traviata.
> >
> > Interestingly, there are operas that seem ALMOST verismo - like LA VIDA
> > BREVE. What prevents de Falla's opera from being true verismo, however, is
> > the very UN-Verismo ending. A Verismo Salud would have committed suicide
> > by unambiguous means. Literally dying of a broken heart is a very
> > UNverismo way of "going" - unless it's through starvation over a number of
> > weeks. Simply dropping dead from sorrow is NOT Verismo. Stabbing one's
> > self in sorrow is.
> >
> > So the *realism* of Verismo is really in the HUMANITY of the characters,
> > not necessarily in the situations. I agree, there is much that is very
> > unrealistic about the PLOT of Tosca. The people, however, are all very
> > realistic and very much "plain old folks", despite their titles and job
> > descriptions. There is no essential difference between Tosca's jealousy
> > and self-delusion and Santuzza's despite their very different careers and
> > social circles.
Here, I might disagree, though only to a small extent. The fact is, in
any operatic genre, we see its share of extravagant plots. The
greatness of 99.9% of all great operas throughout its 400 years is
usually, IMO, the degree to which inspired composers can infuse
otherwise extravagant situations with compellingly human feelings.
This is sometimes done strictly through the brilliance with which
heartfelt composition can use music to convey a compelling, credible
humanity in a larger-than-life character. Only musical geniuses have
this alchemy at their command, of course. And it's these geniuses that
inject a special humanity into their characterizations, no matter how
unpromising the context.
Geoffrey Riggs
Giovanni Abrate
Thanks, Renee.
Giovanni
"renee" <re...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bcsnr9$nh$1...@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Leonard Tillman
>Renee as much as i love these intellectual
> discussions on whatever subject I'd rather go
> out with you in Paris.
>Walk along the Seine at night Just you and me
> and we dont care about Verismo or whatever.
Renee, stick with Verismo. And whatever.
Gerberk is an incorrigible Kibbitzer (qv.). On the other hand (!),
should you ever find your way to Brooklyn, NY, in the US of A, I'd love
to escort you to some of the finer ristoranti of the Little Odessa
community. (Pierogies and Blintzes to die for. Tres Yummy.)
gerberk
Fleming but in real life that will never happen Leonard.
"Leonard Tillman" <tapef...@webtv.net> schreef in bericht
news:8720-3EF...@storefull-2276.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Elizabeth Hubbell
gerberk wrote:
>
> Maybe in an absurd Verismo Opera Plot you would date a woman like Renee
> Fleming but in real life that will never happen Leonard.
Oh shut up.
Geoffrey
Renee
You shut up
Leonard Tillman
>Maybe in an absurd Verismo Opera Plot you
> would date a woman like Renee Fleming but
> in real life that will never happen Leonard.
Oh, but it has happened, Gerb, - it has, and it will..
Never in an "AVOP" since I'm not currently involved in that, but in
real, honest-to-goodness Ultra-Verismo Life.
Also, are you now implying that the poster "Renee" is in fact, none
other than the great diva Fleming?
Should you be doing this without RF's express permission? You might
want to apologize now, before her wrath begins to take effect.
Renee
real mean you know.
Regards
gerberk
geoffrey whats his name etc etc
hugs and kisses
Elizabeth Hubbell
Renee wrote:
>
> > Oh shut up.
>
> You shut up
Sorry, didn't mean to get _Renee_ upset at all. In fact, I apologize if
I did. I felt that Gerberk was distracting attention from what was a
thoughtful enlightening post from Renee concerning Verismo -- and so I
got fed up.
In order to get the discussion back to Renee's excellent posting, I
append the following -- with regrets to Renee for my temper tantrum:
> "renee" <re...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
> news:bcsnr9$nh$1...@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> > I tend to think that certain operas are Verismo, and that the composers of
> > those operas then get stuck with the "verismo" label to the extent that
> > even their non-verismo operas were lumped together under that heading.
True enough. And an additional factor here may simply be chronology:
the musical period in which these works were composed.
> >
> > But I also think that there are characteristics of Verismo operas that
> > enable works like ANDREA CHENIER, FEDORA, and ADRIANA LECOUVREUR, though
> > they DO feature aristocratic characters, to still be Verismo, while operas
> > like MIREILLE and LA VIDA BREVE, though they have a lot of Verismo
> > characteristics when it comes to plot and character types, are not.
> >
> > I think one of the main features of Verismo operas is the lack of
> > artificial refinement of the characters when it comes to their emotional
> > responses. The aristocrats in Verismo operas act just like everyone else -
> > there's no distinction drawn by a more restrained, refined way of behaving
> > and responding, the way there is in earlier (Verdi, Bel Canto, etc.)
> > operas. These characters, in essence, typify what Verdi himself said about
> > DON CARLOS - It was a purely domestic story that just happened to be set
> > in a royal court. Given the presence of the Inquisition in that opera, I'm
> > not sure I completely agree with Verdi's assessment, but I think what he
> > was trying to say about DON CARLO *is* true of Verismo opera, whether it's
> > about Counts and Princesses or about Sicilian peasants and street singers:
> > the characters all act like "just plain folks", and don't allow their
> > social role or class prevent them from following their basest instincts
> > and acting in the roughest (crudest) possible way. One always gets the
> > sense that the "aristocrats" in Verismo operas are really just peasants in
> > fine clothes - the exact opposite, in fact, of the noble peasants of
> > earlier operas who seemed like aristocrats in shabby dress.
Obviously, the poster is on to something. In addition, one might say
that there is a continuum leading to verismo rather than it being simply
a matter of an arbitrary switch being thrown in 1890 with Mascagni's
Cavalleria Rusticana. That's when verismo becomes full-blown, no
question. But I definitely accept both Don Carlos and Traviata as
instances within the continuum leading to verismo in a way that Verdi
(presciently?) anticipated. And yes, "peasants" in earlier operas do
tend to be aristocrats in shabby attire.
> >
> > Without any restraints, the characters of verismo opera also employ vocal
> > technique differently - no need to be to refined or self-controlled about
> > those swoopy portamenti, for example, or creating vocal effects that are
> > true to the cruder aspects of the character, even if the results are not
> > aesthetically beautiful. Ditto the compositions themselves, which tend to
> > use musical effects a bit more crudely - to create unambiguous, unsubtle
> > emotional impact - i.e., musical effects that are not filtered through
> > some kind of symbolism glass: once upon a time, for example, fioratura
> > conveyed a message about the character; in verismo fioratura would be used
> > only to do what it, on its most literal level, actually does: it shows off
> > what the voice can do. A verismo Lucia would never pour out her tragic
> > emotions in a coloratura cadenza. In fact, the only verismo character that
> > would ever do a coloratura cadenza would be an opera singer character
> > onstage singing a Bel Canto opera in a scene that called for it.
The irony is, IMO (and, again, I agree with the poster's point), that
> > Interestingly, there are operas that seem ALMOST verismo - like LA VIDA
> > BREVE. What prevents de Falla's opera from being true verismo, however, is
> > the very UN-Verismo ending. A Verismo Salud would have committed suicide
> > by unambiguous means. Literally dying of a broken heart is a very
> > UNverismo way of "going" - unless it's through starvation over a number of
> > weeks. Simply dropping dead from sorrow is NOT Verismo. Stabbing one's
> > self in sorrow is.
> >
> > So the *realism* of Verismo is really in the HUMANITY of the characters,
> > not necessarily in the situations. I agree, there is much that is very
> > unrealistic about the PLOT of Tosca. The people, however, are all very
> > realistic and very much "plain old folks", despite their titles and job
> > descriptions. There is no essential difference between Tosca's jealousy
> > and self-delusion and Santuzza's despite their very different careers and
> > social circles.
Here, I might disagree, though only to a small extent. The fact is, in
Elizabeth Hubbell
The best defense is a good offense:
gerberk
killing herself and jumping in the Tiber In the true Verismo style she wants
to die and its your fault
regards
"Elizabeth Hubbell" <elizabet...@verizon.net> schreef in bericht
news:3EF21A8C...@verizon.net...
Leonard Tillman
>Now that would be something Leonard.That
> would be true Verismo.Women can be real
> mean you know.
Dearest (and presumably gorgeous) Renee:
please do not Callasly impugn your gender, aka, the fairer one. That
would result in Verismo - of the wrong kind.
So, be kind, as I trust you are.
>Regards
Regards
gerberk
cant you be serious Leonard.Hey if i knew Renee Fleming i wouldn't be
chatting on RMO.I'd be walking with her along the Seine.Holding her hand
Kissing her Caressing her brests Well anyway
regards
btw where in New York do you live I'm planning to go there this summer and
was thinking about staying with you
"Leonard Tillman" <tapef...@webtv.net> schreef in bericht
news:8720-3EF...@storefull-2276.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Leonard Tillman
To Geoffrey:
>Your insults have made that Renee is totally
> confused She is thinking about killing herself
> and jumping in the Tiber In the true Verismo
> style she wants to die and its your fault
Act 1 - No, No, NO! We can't allow her to do that!
Act 2 - LT, seeing that she has gotten across the Atlantic to his
neighborhood in Brooklyn NY, tenderly rescues her, bringing Renee to the
Moscow On the Boardwalk restaurant and bistro.
Act 3 - Renee and Leonardo in grand-duet of Indian Love Call (Friml),
regaling the Opera/Operetta-starved masses.
Act 4 - Encore of Act 3.
>regards
Regards,
LT
Alan Watkins
matter, rubato.
I just play what the bloke wrote.
If it says mf in G i 2/2 4/4 6/8 5/4 whatever that's what I play. If
I was starting out again, it would probably be necessary for me to
"learn" verisimo but regrettably I didn't and as a musician I have
absolutely no idea what it means.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Leonard Tillman
>Callasly lol i got that joke.
Goody.
>It's a wordplay between Careless and
> Callas.
No, it's actually a wordplay of Callous and Callas, - not to
nit-pick, of course.
>Why cant you be serious Leonard.
But I can, I can! Seriously. Note that even you have just called me
Serious Leonard.
>Hey if i knew Renee Fleming i wouldn't be
> chatting on RMO.I'd be <SNIP>
>Well anyway
Right. "Well anyway" indeed..
>regards
Regards.
>btw where in New York do you live I'm
> planning to go there this summer and was
> thinking about staying with you
Best to rethink that one. I only rescue *damsels* in distress. Can't
help you, sorry.
REG
woman.
"Leonard Tillman" <tapef...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8720-3EF...@storefull-2276.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Leonard Tillman
>This is a peculiar discussion even for rmo,
> because Geberk happens to be a woman.
REG, this sudden news has made me come very close to dropping an
entire stack of Siepi LPs I was just reorganizing (fortunately, no
damages)!
Are you certain about this? I'd begun wondering if Gerb might be the
mysterious and seductive Renee, who has just made her debut here.
But, as an older, possibly even worldlier gent than me, sayeth, "One
really never KNOW, do one?"
donpaolo
throwing himself into the Tiber to join Renee in the hereafter, followed, of
course, by a salvation motiff as they ascend into the beyond (or, descend
into Hades, as the mood presents).
DonPaolo
"gerberk" <ger...@home.nl> wrote in message
news:bct76r$3nb$1...@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
gerberk
It's a lesbian site on Opera You probably dont know Dutch. I'm the woman
above Miss Fleming on the pic
skip
Ek Verstaan nie afrikaans, trying to learn.... I am going to visit a very
close friend in SA next summer, so I am trying to learn a little afrikaans
to surprise her.news:bcvpbg$6us$1...@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Leonard Tillman
reminds one of the Eastern European Hebraic observation that a Litvak
"is so clever, that he repents before committing a sin".
Admittedly, that *is* clever. Even pragmatic.
susurrus
"skip" <skip@nyc께.rr.com> wrote
> Baie dankie for the nice site..... You are a beautiful woman.......
> Ek Verstaan nie afrikaans, trying to learn.... I am going to visit a very
> close friend in SA next summer, so I am trying to learn a little afrikaans
> to surprise her. >
I thought I told you to steer clear of monkeypox. In another vein, how do
you say "sit on it and rotate" in Afrikaans? If you can't manage that your
friend might not recognize you.
susurrus the elder
donpaolo
DonPaolo
"skip" <skip@nyc께.rr.com> wrote in message
news:%7KIa.162793$h42.1...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Ancona21
Nice looking broad. What a waste . . .
Ancona
Leonard Tillman
>Agreed - wow, what a gorgeous profile!
>DonPaolo
So, she's the real, genuine, gerberk (I'm told that "Gerda" is her
name)?
Wow! I guess I'll have to smooth-out my approach in future
exchanges....hmm...refine the gruff exterior a bit...let the Golden
inner-core glow through..
L "Diamond-In-The-Rough" T
>"skip" <skip@nyc²².rr.com> wrote in message
>news:%7KIa.162793$h42.1...@twister.ny
Mark D Lew
tapef...@webtv.net (Leonard Tillman) wrote:
> >This is a peculiar discussion even for rmo,
> > because Geberk happens to be a woman.
>
> REG, this sudden news has made me come very close to dropping an
> entire stack of Siepi LPs I was just reorganizing (fortunately, no
> damages)!
Just imagine LT's reaction when he finds out that Renee is a man....
mdl
REG
"Mark D Lew" <mark...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net...
skip
"Ancona21" <anco...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030620185102...@mb-m22.aol.com...
Leonard Tillman
>In article
><7328-3EF...@storefull-2272.public.la
>wson.webtv.net>, tapef...@webtv.net
> (Leonard Tillman) wrote:
>This is a peculiar discussion even for rmo,
> because Geberk happens to be a woman.
"REG, this sudden news has made me come very close to
dropping an entire stack of Siepi LPs I was just reorganizing
(fortunately, no damages)! "
>Just imagine LT's reaction when he finds out
> that Renee is a man....
>mdl
Bite your tongue!!
Leonard Tillman
>There go the Wunderlich records...
Actually, just a few worthless Rosvaenge LPs (a redundancy, that).
I'd been using them as frisbies anyway, for my neighbor's Beagle,
Elvis.
Amazing, how those canines intinctively place their fang-bites directly
through each undesirable track.
LT
>"Mark D Lew" <mark...@earthlink.net>
> wrote in message >news:markdlew-ya02408000R200603161702
>00...@news.earthlink.net...
>In article
><7328-3EF...@storefull-2272.public.la
>wson.webtv.net>, tapef...@webtv.net
> (Leonard Tillman) wrote:
>This is a peculiar discussion even for rmo,
> because Geberk happens to be a woman.
" REG, this sudden news has made me come very close to
dropping an entire stack of Siepi LPs I was just reorganizing
(fortunately, no damages)! "
>Just imagine LT's reaction when he finds out
> that Renee is a man....
>mdl
Best,
REG
"Leonard Tillman" <tapef...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9035-3EF...@storefull-2278.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Jeffrey Meyer
>
> Nice looking broad. What a waste . . .
Stupid post. What an idiot.
--
Jeffrey
>
> Ancona
>
>
>
Jeffrey Meyer
--
Jeffrey
"skip" <skip@nyc께.rr.com> wrote in message
news:%7KIa.162793$h42.1...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Jeffrey Meyer
> Renee asked:
> >What is verismo anyway"
>
> After Verdi's operas, this style of dramatic presentation, "verismo",
> literally meaning "realism", came into being.
>
> Unlike the then-more traditional operas with the royal, historical,
> mythical, and other "grander than life" protagonists of classical
> literature, - verismo focused on the so-called "common" men and women,
> their lives, and very down-to-earth hardships.
>
> The most popular examples would be the works of Mascagni and
> Leoncavallo (respectively and chiefly "Cavalleria Rusticana" and
> "Pagliacci"), and of course, Puccini, each with their stark,
> emotionally striking musical/dramatic colors, compelling from seconds
> before the first note, all the way to the moments following the very
> last.
IIRC, Pag was based on an actual event, where the clowns' wife
was servicing his colleague/friend. He stabbed her to death.
Maybe Verismo plots are based on actual events.
--
Jeffrey
>
> These operas remain popular in their special way, due to their
> profound effects upon those of us who love them so.
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 06/21/2003 12:50 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <ZmSIa.1246$IA3.7...@twister.nyc.rr.com>
>
>I love the idea of a beagle named Elvis...
>
That beagle ain't nothin' but a hound dog.
:>)) G/P Dave
REG
"GRNDPADAVE" <grndp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030621071358...@mb-m16.aol.com...
Andre Storfer
AES
"REG" <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rGZIa.1057$DF1.8...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
REG
"Andre Storfer" <And...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:fy_Ia.95790$YZ2.264802@rwcrnsc53...
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 06/21/2003 10:09 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <fy_Ia.95790$YZ2.264802@rwcrnsc53>
Hey guys and gals,
Just watch where you're walking in your blue suede shoes.
There's no pooper-scooper law in force re the sidewalk adjacent to the
Heartbreak Hotel.
:>)) G/P Dave
skip
"Jeffrey Meyer" <mer...@icon.co.za> wrote in message
news:3ef40f92$0$2...@hades.is.co.za...
skip
Peter Armstrong
Ancona21 wrote:
> << > Baie dankie for the nice site..... You are a beautiful woman..... >>
>
> Nice looking broad. What a waste . . .
>
Not at all... the other half (52%)of the World's population are women!!!!
Mark D Lew
tapef...@webtv.net (Leonard Tillman) wrote:
> Bite your tongue!!
Ouch!! Now whan din you go an maing me do dant for?
mdl
Leonard Tillman
>In article
><9036-3EF...@storefull-2278.public.la
>wson.webtv.net>, tapef...@webtv.net
> (Leonard Tillman) wrote:
" Bite your tongue!! "
>Ouch!! Now whan din you go an maing me do
> dant for?
Weeeeell, next time, I'll recommend the less-painful alternative:
A pickled tongue sandwich on rye with mustard and/or Russian dressing
(20th-Century Hebraic deli-favorite).
>mdl
LT
"People shouldn't have children after 45...I mean, aren't 45 kids
enough?"
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
be typed in news:20030620185102...@mb-m22.aol.com:
><< > Baie dankie for the nice site..... You are a beautiful woman..... >>
>
> Nice looking broad. What a waste . . .
Who's the stunning brunette in the picture with Née-Née?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Mark Coy tossed off eBay? http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B734C02
RMCR's most pointless, dumb and laughable chowderhead: Mark Coy.
Karen Mercedes
> Great post!
> Thanks, Renee.
> Giovanni
>
> "renee" <re...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bcsnr9$nh$1...@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Just to let people know: The posting that Renee took credit for about
Verismo was, in fact, a verbatim "forwarding" of an email on the subject
that I sent to her privately, which she - for whatever reason - felt no
obligation to give me credit for.
Karen Mercedes
http://www.radix.net/~dalila/index.html
________________________________
It's a natural instinct to be
charmed by one's own productions.
- Thomas More, UTOPIA
Karen Mercedes
order to post on RMO a message I sent to her in private email, and to do
so not only under an assumed name, but without actually crediting the
original author (me).
Gerberk also kindly sent me a private email expressing her hope that I
didn't mind her "little joke" - i.e., the publishing of my private email
without attribution.
It's amazing just what sociopaths find amusing.
Leonard Tillman
I attest on the basis of private e-mail, that the last two posts from
Karen Mercedes 11:18 and 11:30 PM respectively (6/22), are indeed from
the genuine, one and only Karen.
Best,
LT
REG
this group and others who doesn't hesistate to give other people a piece of
her mind in terms of her "morality" - although she's Dutch, and not
American, she has consistenly felt that she was well-situated to lecture us
about our own country, without ever critically examining her own (that's
the key element). It kind of figures that a person who lacks the conscience
and the humility to realize that "charity", as well as self-criticism,
begins at home, would also not feel any compunction about stealing and
misattributing someone else's writing and thoughts.
I think your characterizing of her as a sociopath is much to the point.
"Karen Mercedes" <dal...@radix.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.43.030622...@saltmine.radix.net...
gerberk
>>>he's asked for a complete report on some of you,
Dont forget to ask him about your psychiatric report Reginald.
gerberk
joke but thanks for your help anyway.
regards
btw if Reg wants to believe i'm a woman you should let him.
"Leonard Tillman" <tapef...@webtv.net> schreef in bericht
news:11033-3E...@storefull-2277.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Leonard Tillman
>Leonard,rest assured i already apologized to
> Miss Mercedes for the stupid joke but thanks
> for your help anyway.
Gerb, where does my help, in the form of the post you've quoted,
relate to your apology or lack of same?
Also, had you read RMO for a while, you'd probably know what caused
the objection to your admittedly stupid joke.
>regards
>btw if Reg wants to believe i'm a woman you
> should let him.
Does this mean that since you want all of us to believe you're a
woman, I - and everyone else - should likewise let you convince us of
it?
If so, I won't oppose you. Remember, you even posted a picture of
yourself with Renee Fleming. Are you next going to post her recordings,
and inform us that the voice is yours?
Should all of us post soundclips now, claiming the voices to be
ours?
America wants the answers to these questions, pronto.
LT
gerberk
>>>the objection to your admittedly stupid joke.
Well it's not a big thing but it was just a silly joke and she is a very
nice and educated person so i should not have done it.
Now will you stop that male/female thing.Hey what can i do when out of the
blue Reg posts that i'm a woman.If somebody says a stupid thing you should
always agree with him.So i found him a woman on the internet.But i probably
shouldn't have done that either.Now Reg is not the person to apologize to so
i absolutely and catagorically refuse it.Even if he knows John Ashford .Who
is he? Well i dont care.Now will you please stop this thread.
regards
REG
"gerberk" <ger...@home.nl> wrote in message
news:bd69u6$sm8$1...@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Giovanni Abrate
moderated ng on opera.
"Karen Mercedes" <dal...@radix.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.43.030622...@saltmine.radix.net...
Roddy Collins
> One more instance of ng abuse. This may be the time to think about a
> moderated ng on opera.
But, Giovanni, baiting the TROLLS is fun...and it actually makes the
poor deluded creatures feel as though they have a place in society...
Elizabeth Hubbell
.....and it makes those who appreciate detailed discussions on matters
operatic feel as though they have no place whatsoever in r.m.o.
Now, if that's what you want to achieve, go to it:-(
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Giovanni Abrate wrote:
>
> One more instance of ng abuse. This may be the time to think about a
> moderated ng on opera.
Think about it all you like, but every time the subject has come up
(several, over the past several years) it's been voted down by most of
the regular posters here. (However, you're perfectly at liberty to
start a moderated group on your own - I'm sure you can find the proper
procedures for doing so, somewhere in Usenet.)
As a matter of curiosity, when have you ever posted here before? ...And
if you are not a regular poster, why should you care whether the group
is moderated or not?
Roddy Collins
> .....and it makes those who appreciate detailed discussions on matters
> operatic feel as though they have no place whatsoever in r.m.o.
>
> Now, if that's what you want to achieve, go to it:-(
>
> Geoffrey Riggs
> www.operacast.com
I don't actually WANT to achieve it, but you know the formula of r m
o...
Someone wants to make a comment about a singer or a plot from an
opera, and within three or four messages, a grubby fight of name
calling takes place.
Sad though it is, it is, however inevitable.
Leonard Tillman
>[....] but you know the formula of r m o...
>Someone wants to make a comment about a
> singer or a plot from an opera, and within
> three or four messages, a grubby fight of
> name calling takes place.
All too familiar, though there have been several *neat, clean*
fights of name calling (!?)
>Sad though it is, it is, however inevitable.
I'll grant you that it happens with remarkable frequency, but
doesn't necessarily have to be inevitable, once we know whom we're
dealing with - a sort of predictability having been established.
Best,
LT
"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, - you will land among the stars."
Giovanni Abrate
I have posted here before. Do a search on Alfano, the Turandot finales,
Mascagni and more. It's there. I only post when I think I have something
constructive to say that may be of interest to others. Now, going back to my
initial point, there would be no need of ng moderation if everyone else used
the same rules.
Ciao,
Giovanni
http://www.tryphon.it/sakuntala/
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3EF76490...@earthlink.net...
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
Giovanni Abrate wrote:
>
> Dear Evelyn,
> I have posted here before. Do a search on Alfano, the Turandot finales,
> Mascagni and more. It's there. I only post when I think I have something
> constructive to say that may be of interest to others. Now, going back to my
> initial point, there would be no need of ng moderation if everyone else used
> the same rules.
...But it wouldn't be nearly as much fun! (Isn't Opera-L moderated?
Perhaps you'd be happier there.)
Giovanni Abrate
happy days in kindergarten...
Shame about the opera related posts that get in the way....
Ciao bella!
Giovanni
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3EF7AD38...@earthlink.net...
Mark D Lew
[quoted out of order]
> As a matter of curiosity, when have you ever posted here before? ...And
> if you are not a regular poster, why should you care whether the group
> is moderated or not?
Giovanni has posted quite a bit on RMO. In particular, he has written in
great detail about the Alfano ending of Puccini's Turandot, which seems to
be a specialty interest of his.
> [...] (However, you're perfectly at liberty to
> start a moderated group on your own - I'm sure you can find the proper
> procedures for doing so, somewhere in Usenet.)
Amen. After seeing the same request pop up every few months for so many
years, I wish someone would actually create the damn moderated group.
Everyone talks about moderation, but nobody does anything about it. We can
sit here and argue about whether it would be better or worse, but the real
test would be to start the group and see who migrates there.
The problem seems to be that the people who are clamoring for a moderated
newsgroup are mostly the same ones who have no idea what a newsgroup really
is nor how to create one (which perhaps is not a coincidence).
mdl
Giovanni Abrate
what you say about ng moderation is, of course, correct.
I have seen the same thing happen to another ng that I sometimes visit: the
disruptions by a handful of thugs were so frequent that they eventually
found a persom who had the time, ability and the goodwill necessary to start
a moderated ng. There is a loss of immediacy that comes with moderation, and
one has to balance the pros and cons carefully.
It is unfortunate that a potentially very interesting ng like r.m.o. is
losing qualified posters (and the additional topics and discussions they may
bring to the table), because of the actions of a few. We can laugh it off
(what else can be done) and use our killfile filters, but ultimately we all
suffer. I wish I had the time to run a moderated ng: unfortunately I do not.
So, we take the **** and look hard for the interesting posts.
Thanks to all those who are really contributing meaningful material to the
ng! To those who enjoy disrupting the ng: I can think of no way of having
fun that is more indicative of a miserable existence. You must really have
nothing better to do: sad.
Giovanni
"Mark D Lew" <mark...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net...
> In article <3EF76490...@earthlink.net>, evg...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> Giovanni has posted quite a bit on RMO. In particular, he has written in
> great detail about the Alfano ending of Puccini's Turandot, which seems to
> be a specialty interest of his.
>
> > [...] (However, you're perfectly at liberty to
> > start a moderated group on your own - I'm sure you can find the proper
> > procedures for doing so, somewhere in Usenet.)
>
william d. kasimer
> Think about it all you like, but every time the subject has come up
> (several, over the past several years) it's been voted down by most of
> the regular posters here.
That's not true, actually. It's never been voted upon in any
meaningful or accurate fashion, because as Mark notes, none of the
individuals who've suggested it have taken the time to go through the
steps necessary to begin a moderated group.
Bill
Max Freischutz
I would join the group.
But I would not help sow the seeds.
And I would not help grind the grain.
And I would not help bake the bread...
Max F.
Mark D Lew
wkas...@quincymc.org (william d. kasimer) wrote:
> That's not true, actually. It's never been voted upon in any
> meaningful or accurate fashion, because as Mark notes, none of the
> individuals who've suggested it have taken the time to go through the
> steps necessary to begin a moderated group.
I'd vote for a moderated group. I probably wouldn't post to it much, though.
mdl
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
I was basing my assessment on the majority of the responses such
suggestions have received - I realize there was no formal vote. (I'm
not sure how one would conduct such a thing.) Certainly most of the
posters here - particularly the long-term ones - have seemed to oppose
the idea. (If you really want to take the trouble, I'm sure you could
do a "head count" by consulting the Google archives.)
>
> Bill
M. Slater
>I'd vote for a moderated group. I probably wouldn't post to it much, though.
>
Dear Mark,
OPERA-L is already an existing moderated opera bulletin board/newsgroup. Many
eminent operaphiles and professionals post there. Many familiar persons from
RMO post there, as well. They limit you to two posts a day. I don't know how
that guy keeps up with moderating.
Mark
william d. kasimer
> > > Think about it all you like, but every time the subject has come up
> > > (several, over the past several years) it's been voted down by most of
> > > the regular posters here.
> >
> > That's not true, actually. It's never been voted upon in any
> > meaningful or accurate fashion, because as Mark notes, none of the
> > individuals who've suggested it have taken the time to go through the
> > steps necessary to begin a moderated group.
>
> I was basing my assessment on the majority of the responses such
> suggestions have received - I realize there was no formal vote. (I'm
> not sure how one would conduct such a thing.)
It's done by a "call for votes", aka CFV, which follows a "request for
discussion" (RFD). That's how most newsgroups are formed, including
this one. There are specific newsgroups set up for just for RFD's and
CFV's.
> Certainly most of the
> posters here - particularly the long-term ones - have seemed to oppose
> the idea.
Again, you're making this assumption based upon, in essence, no data
whatsoever.
> (If you really want to take the trouble, I'm sure you could
> do a "head count" by consulting the Google archives.)
Feel free, but I'm not going to bother, since it's a worthless
exercise.
Bill
william d. kasimer
> OPERA-L is already an existing moderated opera bulletin board/newsgroup.
It's only "sort of" moderated.
> Many eminent operaphiles and professionals post there.
As well as certain other less attractive....elements.
Bill
william d. kasimer
> I'd vote for a moderated group.
Despite Evelyn's protestations, I suspect that most people would. The
problem, though, is finding someone willing to moderate it. I'd
probably vote for it, too, but I don't think that it's necessary,
since there's no shortage of other opera forums that are under some
level of control.
BTW, there's a large difference between turning this forum into a
moderated group (which I would oppose) and creating a new moderated
forum (which I would support).
Bill
william d. kasimer
RFD for this newsgroup:
====================================================================
From: Andy Frakes (jol...@wariat.org)
Subject: RFD: rec.music.opera
View: Complete Thread (2 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, rec.music.classical
Date: 1995-01-30 15:25:55 PST
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION
on the proposed newsgroup
rec.music.opera
(unmoderated)
proposed by T. Andy Frakes (jol...@wariat.org)
on 30 January 1995
=================================================================
This RFD is being distributed to the following groups:
news.announce.newgroups (New Group Announcement Newsgroup)
news.groups (Newsgroup Discussion Newsgroup)
rec.music.classical (Classical Music Newsgroup)
ope...@merak.fapesp.br (Opera Mailing List)
voca...@phoenix.oulu.fi (Vocal Singing Mailing List)
chor...@lists.colorado.edu (Choral Singing Mailing List)
All followup messages should be directed to news.groups, a newsgroup
dedicated to the discussion of new newsgroups proposals. They should
not be cross-posted to the rest of the above groups. If a Call for
Votes (CFV) is issued, it will be also be distributed to these groups.
=================================================================
CHARTER:
The proposed unmoderated newsgroup, rec.music.opera, shall be used for
the
discussion of issues relating to opera including but not limited to:
Announcements -- Announcements of opera performances and recitals
including information such as casting, times, dates, places, travel
information, tour packages, ticket availability and pricing, and
contacts for additional information.
Reviews -- Reviews and recommendations of live and recorded opera
performances.
Participation -- Discussions of the elements of opera performance
including singing, acting, directing, composing, set design,
choreography, and operatic orchestral musicianship.
Education and Training -- Discussions regarding techniques for
practice and training in the elements of opera and discussions about
individuals and institutions involved with the teaching of these
elements.
General and Historical -- Discussions relating to contemporary and
historical opera figures (composers, directors, performers,
librettists, proponents, etc.), works, literature, and venues.
=================================================================
INFORMATION:
In a recent two week sample rec.music.classical received 1554
messages. 189 of these (12%) were opera related. The opera mailing
list (ope...@merak.fapesp.br) recently received 683 messages in a 7
day sample. In addition, opera-l has recently received international
publicity in Opera News creating even more volume problems. This
activity, combined with that of other related newsgroups and mailing
lists, provides a more than ample base of support for a newsgroup
dedicated to opera.
EXPECTED BENEFITS:
Opera-l mailing list members will benefit from a decrease in volume to
a more manageable level due to the expected migration of some readers
from the mailing list to the newsgroup.
Rec.music.classical (r.m.c) readers who are uninterested in opera
articles will no longer be burdened with the extra volume they create.
R.m.c readers who are interested in both operatic and non-operatic
classical music can subscribe to both groups and benefit from the
added level of organization.
R.m.c readers with limited interest in non-opera articles can access
opera discussions much more easily in a dedicated newsgroup without
having to sort through hundreds of non-opera-related articles.
Readers of opera-l (and its digested version) who prefer a more
manageable way to access discussions on opera without the burdens of
excessive mailbox management (organizing various discussion threads,
unsubscribing/resubscribing when leaving town, changing address
headers depending on whether the reply is intended for the list or the
individual, etc.) will have a forum for doing so.
--
===================================================================
= T. Andy Frakes jol...@wariat.org =
= "The Bill of Rights...Void Where Prohibited by Law" =
===================================================================
Andre Storfer
AES
"M. Slater" <harpsic...@aol.community> wrote in message
news:20030625000400...@mb-m29.aol.com...
> >From: mark...@earthlink.net (Mark D Lew)
> >I'd vote for a moderated group. I probably wouldn't post to it much,
though
> I don't know how
that guy keeps up with moderating>
Mark
GRNDPADAVE
virtue."
I prefer this rollicking immoderate crew to any bowdlerized bastion of
bourgeois banality.
== G/P "Nattering Nabob of Negativism" Dave
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in
news:f69b4194.03062...@posting.google.com:
Are you perhaps referring to Christopher Durang's protegé?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Mark Coy tossed off eBay? http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2B734C02
RMCR's most pointless, dumb and laughable chowderhead: Mark Coy.
Parterrebox
> Are you perhaps referring to Christopher Durang's protegé?
Sigourney Weaver posts to opera-l?
Premiereopera
>From: parte...@aol.com (Parterrebox)
>Date: 6/25/03 11:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030625112218...@mb-m17.aol.com>
>
>Matthew B. Tepper:
>
>> Are you perhaps referring to Christopher Durang's protegé?
>
>Sigourney Weaver posts to opera-l?
Yes. She uses the screen name of Drekjerk.
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
"william d. kasimer" wrote:
>
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3EF90BFE...@earthlink.net>...
> > Certainly most of the
> > posters here - particularly the long-term ones - have seemed to oppose
> > the idea.
>
> Again, you're making this assumption based upon, in essence, no data
> whatsoever.
>
> > (If you really want to take the trouble, I'm sure you could
> > do a "head count" by consulting the Google archives.)
>
> Feel free, but I'm not going to bother, since it's a worthless
> exercise.
Then what validity does your rebuttal of my statement have? (Since it,
also, is "based upon, in essence, no data whatsoever"?)
Leonard Tillman
>Are you perhaps referring to Christopher
> Durang's protegé?
If that's the progegé I'm *thinking* of (not a spectacularly good
idea after having dined recently), he must be posting to Opera-L under a
different and better-behaved alias.
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:20030625112218...@mb-m17.aol.com:
> Matthew B. Tepper:
>
>> Are you perhaps referring to Christopher Durang's protegé?
>
> Sigourney Weaver posts to opera-l?
That would be reason enough for me to join!
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in news:14609-3EF9C8C9-4@storefull-
2277.public.lawson.webtv.net:
> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> Are you perhaps referring to Christopher Durang's protegé?
>
> If that's the progegé I'm *thinking* of (not a spectacularly good
> idea after having dined recently), he must be posting to Opera-L under a
> different and better-behaved alias.
You know, if he were to behave himself, and give up the ad hominem stuff,
I'd happily offer (and accept in return) the olive brance of peace.
> "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, - you will land among the stars."
Not according to any astronomy texts I've read. ;--)
Leonard Tillman
>(Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net ar
>e forged))
>tapef...@webtv.net (Leonard Tillman)
> appears to have caused the following letters
> to be typed in
> news:14609-3EF9C8C9-4@storefull-
> 2277.public.lawson.webtv.net:
>Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>Are you perhaps referring to Christopher
> Durang's protegé?
"If that's the progegé I'm *thinking* of (not a
spectacularly good idea after having dined recently), he must be posting
to Opera-L under a different and better-behaved alias. "
>You know, if he were to behave himself, and
> give up the ad hominem stuff, I'd happily offer
> (and accept in return) the olive brance of
> peace.
An unlikely happening....but if so, - frankly, the best I could
manage is PC, - as in "Peaceful Coexistence. Too many memories for more
than that.
His best bet would probably be the creation of a kindly, lovable
alias, - e.g., "The Ghost of Kurt Baum" or plain old "Koortie", as he'd
pleasantly reminisce daily on his romantic operatic partnerships and
with Zinka M. (!)
"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, - you will land among the stars."
>Not according to any astronomy texts I've
> read. ;--)
Capt. Kirk, with Mr. Spock at the helm could have done it in the snap
of a finger.
--After all, what's a mere 500 Octillion light-years among friends?
--
>Matthew B. Tepper
Best,
LT