Rimsky's Servillia gets spoken of here from time to time. It is unlike anything else of this great master, and hasn't been performed in a century....for no good reason.
In about 1950, Melodiya finally recorded a series of excerpts with Nlepp, Lisitsian and Bron, among others. It has never appeared on cd to my knowledge (it was paired with excerpts from Kashrei with Lisitsian), and it surfaces only on a couple of internet sites, usually in not very good sound.
The Aquarius label is devoted to presenting a huge amount from the Russian operatinc and vocal archives, and a couple of years ago, as one of their flagship re-issues, brought forth Vestovsky's Gromboy, also a 1950 recording.
Gromboy is a generation or two prior to Serov, but has its own charms and is worth several listens. (the recording features Korolev and Pystovskaya and Thihonov under Katz). Even better, you get a selection of songs sung by Tarkov, and then as a super bonus, the extended scene from Servillia with Rimsky and Bron (about 14 minutes of music) in better sound than I have heard it before. (and finally, the extended Maria/Mazeppa scene). I think we may have more of Servillia in the next few years, but this, and Fleming's very fine rendition of her aria, are now the most easily available set excerpts available.
In purely vocal terms, I am not sure that Lisitsian has ever sounded better, or more dramatic, and there's almost no excuse not to indulge if you have any interest in Russian music or great singing.
> Rimsky's Servillia gets spoken of here from time to time. It is unlike > anything > else of this great master, and hasn't been performed in a > century....for no > good reason.
> In about 1950, Melodiya finally recorded a series of excerpts with > Nlepp, > Lisitsian and Bron, among others. It has never appeared on cd to my > knowledge (it was paired with excerpts from Kashrei with Lisitsian), > and it > surfaces only on a couple of internet sites, usually in not very good > sound.
> The Aquarius label is devoted to presenting a huge amount from the > Russian > operatinc and vocal archives, and a couple of years ago, as one of > their > flagship re-issues, brought forth Vestovsky's Gromboy, also a 1950 > recording.
> Gromboy is a generation or two prior to Serov, but has its own charms > and is > worth several listens. (the recording features Korolev and Pystovskaya > and > Thihonov under Katz). Even better, you get a selection of songs sung > by > Tarkov, and then as a super bonus, the extended scene from Servillia > with > Rimsky and Bron (about 14 minutes of music) in better sound than I > have > heard it before. (and finally, the extended Maria/Mazeppa scene). I > think we > may have more of Servillia in the next few years, but this, and > Fleming's very > fine rendition of her aria, are now the most easily available set > excerpts > available.
> In purely vocal terms, I am not sure that Lisitsian has ever sounded > better, or > more dramatic, and there's almost no excuse not to indulge if you have > any > interest in Russian music or great singing.
> Aquarius 347-2.
Good to know about this. Servilia laid a very large egg when premiered, and its subject didn't suit post-revolutionary theatre; that's probably why it didn't reappear. There was originally more resistance to R-K outside Russia than you'd expect -- one English critic famously shuddered "What a name for a composer! It suggests fierce whiskers stained with vodka!" -- part of a distaste for Russians generally. Several critics agreed about Tchaikovsky 1 that it revealed "the barbarian savage said to lie at the heart of every apparently civilized Russian." Tchaikovsky 1!!!!! What would they have made of the original Mussorgsky? Fortunately Rimsky's version smoothed the path, I believe because it was accepted in Paris and Germany first. But Rimsky's own operas were then treated as poor relations, except Golden Cockerel, because it suited the Ballet Russe style; and that misjudgement still obatins with many of my colleagues.
What we need as much as recordings, though, is scores. I remember managing, at the Soviet-financed bookshop Collets in London, finally finding an LP set of Sadko (it stank -- literally, due to the glue on the box!) and asking about the score. "Ah," said the assistant sadly, "we've just 'ad Edward Downes and David Lloyd-Jones though this morning asking about that -- and if *they* can't get one..."
Cheers,
Mike
Downes was of course the considerable conductor who counted second only to Solti at Covent Garden, and conducted those excellent Gliere CDs, and Lloyd-Jones, also a fine conductor, prepared the definitive performing edition of the Mussorgsky Boris, superseding Pavel Lamm
> > Rimsky's Servillia gets spoken of here from time to time. It is unlike > > anything > > else of this great master, and hasn't been performed in a > > century....for no > > good reason.
> > In about 1950, Melodiya finally recorded a series of excerpts with > > Nlepp, > > Lisitsian and Bron, among others. It has never appeared on cd to my > > knowledge (it was paired with excerpts from Kashrei with Lisitsian), > > and it > > surfaces only on a couple of internet sites, usually in not very good > > sound.
> > The Aquarius label is devoted to presenting a huge amount from the > > Russian > > operatinc and vocal archives, and a couple of years ago, as one of > > their > > flagship re-issues, brought forth Vestovsky's Gromboy, also a 1950 > > recording.
> > Gromboy is a generation or two prior to Serov, but has its own charms > > and is > > worth several listens. (the recording features Korolev and Pystovskaya > > and > > Thihonov under Katz). Even better, you get a selection of songs sung > > by > > Tarkov, and then as a super bonus, the extended scene from Servillia > > with > > Rimsky and Bron (about 14 minutes of music) in better sound than I > > have > > heard it before. (and finally, the extended Maria/Mazeppa scene). I > > think we > > may have more of Servillia in the next few years, but this, and > > Fleming's very > > fine rendition of her aria, are now the most easily available set > > excerpts > > available.
> > In purely vocal terms, I am not sure that Lisitsian has ever sounded > > better, or > > more dramatic, and there's almost no excuse not to indulge if you have > > any > > interest in Russian music or great singing.
> > Aquarius 347-2.
> Good to know about this. Servilia laid a very large egg when > premiered, and its subject didn't suit post-revolutionary theatre; > that's probably why it didn't reappear. There was originally more > resistance to R-K outside Russia than you'd expect -- one English > critic famously shuddered "What a name for a composer! It suggests > fierce whiskers stained with vodka!" -- part of a distaste for > Russians generally. Several critics agreed about Tchaikovsky 1 that it > revealed "the barbarian savage said to lie at the heart of every > apparently civilized Russian." Tchaikovsky 1!!!!! What would they have > made of the original Mussorgsky? Fortunately Rimsky's version smoothed > the path, I believe because it was accepted in Paris and Germany > first. But Rimsky's own operas were then treated as poor relations, > except Golden Cockerel, because it suited the Ballet Russe style; and > that misjudgement still obatins with many of my colleagues.
> What we need as much as recordings, though, is scores. I remember > managing, at the Soviet-financed bookshop Collets in London, finally > finding an LP set of Sadko (it stank -- literally, due to the glue on > the box!) and asking about the score. "Ah," said the assistant sadly, > "we've just 'ad Edward Downes and David Lloyd-Jones though this > morning asking about that -- and if *they* can't get one..."
> Cheers,
> Mike
> Downes was of course the considerable conductor who counted second > only to Solti at Covent Garden, and conducted those excellent Gliere > CDs, and Lloyd-Jones, also a fine conductor, prepared the definitive > performing edition of the Mussorgsky Boris, superseding Pavel Lamm- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
That was probably the great old Bolshoi recording from about 1950 - start turns from Reizen, Kozlovsky and Lisitsian!!!!! Nicely pressed onto Arlecchino with some great Sadko recordongs as a filler and some very interesting annotations. Wagner fan
> > Rimsky's Servillia gets spoken of here from time to time. It is unlike > > anything > > else of this great master, and hasn't been performed in a > > century....for no > > good reason.
> > In about 1950, Melodiya finally recorded a series of excerpts with > > Nlepp, > > Lisitsian and Bron, among others. It has never appeared on cd to my > > knowledge (it was paired with excerpts from Kashrei with Lisitsian), > > and it > > surfaces only on a couple of internet sites, usually in not very good > > sound.
> > The Aquarius label is devoted to presenting a huge amount from the > > Russian > > operatinc and vocal archives, and a couple of years ago, as one of > > their > > flagship re-issues, brought forth Vestovsky's Gromboy, also a 1950 > > recording.
> > Gromboy is a generation or two prior to Serov, but has its own charms > > and is > > worth several listens. (the recording features Korolev and Pystovskaya > > and > > Thihonov under Katz). Even better, you get a selection of songs sung > > by > > Tarkov, and then as a super bonus, the extended scene from Servillia > > with > > Rimsky and Bron (about 14 minutes of music) in better sound than I > > have > > heard it before. (and finally, the extended Maria/Mazeppa scene). I > > think we > > may have more of Servillia in the next few years, but this, and > > Fleming's very > > fine rendition of her aria, are now the most easily available set > > excerpts > > available.
> > In purely vocal terms, I am not sure that Lisitsian has ever sounded > > better, or > > more dramatic, and there's almost no excuse not to indulge if you have > > any > > interest in Russian music or great singing.
> > Aquarius 347-2.
> Good to know about this. Servilia laid a very large egg when > premiered, and its subject didn't suit post-revolutionary theatre; > that's probably why it didn't reappear. There was originally more > resistance to R-K outside Russia than you'd expect -- one English > critic famously shuddered "What a name for a composer! It suggests > fierce whiskers stained with vodka!" -- part of a distaste for > Russians generally. Several critics agreed about Tchaikovsky 1 that it > revealed "the barbarian savage said to lie at the heart of every > apparently civilized Russian." Tchaikovsky 1!!!!! What would they have > made of the original Mussorgsky? Fortunately Rimsky's version smoothed > the path, I believe because it was accepted in Paris and Germany > first. But Rimsky's own operas were then treated as poor relations, > except Golden Cockerel, because it suited the Ballet Russe style; and > that misjudgement still obatins with many of my colleagues.
> What we need as much as recordings, though, is scores. I remember > managing, at the Soviet-financed bookshop Collets in London, finally > finding an LP set of Sadko (it stank -- literally, due to the glue on > the box!) and asking about the score. "Ah," said the assistant sadly, > "we've just 'ad Edward Downes and David Lloyd-Jones though this > morning asking about that -- and if *they* can't get one..."
> Cheers,
> Mike
> Downes was of course the considerable conductor who counted second > only to Solti at Covent Garden, and conducted those excellent Gliere > CDs, and Lloyd-Jones, also a fine conductor, prepared the definitive > performing edition of the Mussorgsky Boris, superseding Pavel Lamm- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
That is very interesting. I tended to think that the Lamm editions were pretty much the last word, but I gather that they are not on a lot of these?
I have been spending a lot of time with Khovanschina over the last number of months in various recordings, and in repeatedly comparing the Lamm and the Rimsky versions of the score. Is there any other score version you know of or would recommend? My favorite performance still, after all this investigatiing, is the Nebolsin, not only for the cast, but because as a conductor he observes literally all of the written dynamics without every making it seem lifeless or academic - very much the opposite. The worst recording I think I have heard is the MET live performance under Emil Cooper in English, with a terribly poor cast (including Tibbett on his last legs) and with only a stellar Hines. But Cooper who was very important with this opera, as you know, pays no attention, his cast pays less, and he reinvents Rimsky, not to much effect as I can see.
On Jul 5, 10:08 am, "richer...@hotnail.com" <richer...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That is very interesting. I tended to think that the Lamm editions > were pretty much the last word, but I gather that they are not on a > lot of these?
Lamm laid the groundwork, so of course L-J's is based on his, but it's been the one most employed in the UK over my opera-going career. When he was director of Opera North they laid on a special 60th birthday production of it, with local lad John Tomlinson and a very fine cast, which was one of the best things I've seen. The excerpts later recorded by Paul Daniel are a pale shadow; Lloyd-Jones's much quieter, more poetic feeling for that music was amazing.
> I have been spending a lot of time with Khovanschina over the last > number of months in various recordings, and in repeatedly comparing > the Lamm and the Rimsky versions of the score. Is there any other > score version you know of or would recommend? My favorite performance > still, after all this investigatiing, is the Nebolsin, not only for > the cast, but because as a conductor he observes literally all of the > written dynamics without every making it seem lifeless or academic - > very much the opposite. The worst recording I think I have heard is > the MET live performance under Emil Cooper in English, with a terribly > poor cast (including Tibbett on his last legs) and with only a > stellar Hines. But Cooper who was very important with this opera, as > you know, pays no attention, his cast pays less, and he reinvents > Rimsky, not to much effect as I can see.
> All best
I would not pronounce too readily here, it's such a matter of taste. I like both orchestrations, well performed, but I tend to enjoy the original Marina-less version to the later revisions. I enjoy the bipartite Maryinsky set, but it hasn't got the best singers in the world; it just works as an idiomatic ensemble performance, or rather two. Also, my experience of Boris is wholly European, so I don't have that much knowledge of the Met; I never heard Pinza, except on some discs my wife's stepfather played me, and I only heard Hines live in Wagner at the end of his career. I admire the Abbado in many ways, but it isn't the one I turn to instinctively. I also like the understated Gergiev DVD with Robert Lloyd, although his Russian's worse than mine!
I take it the Nebolsin you mean is the one that served as soundtrack to the old Bolshoi film with Pirogov. I only have that on video, Soviet era, and unsurprisingly I have trouble with the sound, which prevents me assessing it fairly; it strikes me as a good, solid and above all idiomatic reading, certainly. But I find more excitement in the old Dobrowen, and I have a soft spot, despite the rough sound, for the old Melik-Pashayev recording with George London grafted in -- towering central performance, unslackening drama, and M-P whips up the tension. I also quite like Karajan and Cluytens in their individual ways, especially vocally; but this is all very personal and not necessarily expert. I will say, though, that I do not at all like the Semkow with Talvela, or the Rostropovich.
> > That is very interesting. I tended to think that the Lamm editions > > were pretty much the last word, but I gather that they are not on a > > lot of these?
> Lamm laid the groundwork, so of course L-J's is based on his, but it's > been the one most employed in the UK over my opera-going career. When > he was director of Opera North they laid on a special 60th birthday > production of it, with local lad John Tomlinson and a very fine cast, > which was one of the best things I've seen. The excerpts later > recorded by Paul Daniel are a pale shadow; Lloyd-Jones's much quieter, > more poetic feeling for that music was amazing.
> > I have been spending a lot of time with Khovanschina over the last > > number of months in various recordings, and in repeatedly comparing > > the Lamm and the Rimsky versions of the score. Is there any other > > score version you know of or would recommend? My favorite performance > > still, after all this investigatiing, is the Nebolsin, not only for > > the cast, but because as a conductor he observes literally all of the > > written dynamics without every making it seem lifeless or academic - > > very much the opposite. The worst recording I think I have heard is > > the MET live performance under Emil Cooper in English, with a terribly > > poor cast (including Tibbett on his last legs) and with only a > > stellar Hines. But Cooper who was very important with this opera, as > > you know, pays no attention, his cast pays less, and he reinvents > > Rimsky, not to much effect as I can see.
> > All best
> I would not pronounce too readily here, it's such a matter of taste. I > like both orchestrations, well performed, but I tend to enjoy the > original Marina-less version to the later revisions. I enjoy the > bipartite Maryinsky set, but it hasn't got the best singers in the > world; it just works as an idiomatic ensemble performance, or rather > two. Also, my experience of Boris is wholly European, so I don't have > that much knowledge of the Met; I never heard Pinza, except on some > discs my wife's stepfather played me, and I only heard Hines live in > Wagner at the end of his career. I admire the Abbado in many ways, but > it isn't the one I turn to instinctively. I also like the understated > Gergiev DVD with Robert Lloyd, although his Russian's worse than mine!
> I take it the Nebolsin you mean is the one that served as soundtrack > to the old Bolshoi film with Pirogov. I only have that on video, > Soviet era, and unsurprisingly I have trouble with the sound, which > prevents me assessing it fairly; it strikes me as a good, solid and > above all idiomatic reading, certainly. But I find more excitement in > the old Dobrowen, and I have a soft spot, despite the rough sound, for > the old Melik-Pashayev recording with George London grafted in -- > towering central performance, unslackening drama, and M-P whips up the > tension. I also quite like Karajan and Cluytens in their individual > ways, especially vocally; but this is all very personal and not > necessarily expert. I will say, though, that I do not at all like the > Semkow with Talvela, or the Rostropovich.
> Cheers,
> Mike- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Ah, thanks so much. I can't believe I didn't know about the Dobrowen! I don't think I have ever heard it, and that now moves to assignment 1. He accompanies Schanbel on the later of the Beethoven Piano Concertos, and something like 40 years after I first heard the set (on the old Angel LPs, in that luxurious black box - a huge present to myself in college after first year) they are still vivid in my mind. You obviously konw this stuff MUCH better than I and I much appreciate the pointers and recommendations.
> > > That is very interesting. I tended to think that the Lamm editions > > > were pretty much the last word, but I gather that they are not on a > > > lot of these?
> > Lamm laid the groundwork, so of course L-J's is based on his, but it's > > been the one most employed in the UK over my opera-going career. When > > he was director of Opera North they laid on a special 60th birthday > > production of it, with local lad John Tomlinson and a very fine cast, > > which was one of the best things I've seen. The excerpts later > > recorded by Paul Daniel are a pale shadow; Lloyd-Jones's much quieter, > > more poetic feeling for that music was amazing.
> > > I have been spending a lot of time with Khovanschina over the last > > > number of months in various recordings, and in repeatedly comparing > > > the Lamm and the Rimsky versions of the score. Is there any other > > > score version you know of or would recommend? My favorite performance > > > still, after all this investigatiing, is the Nebolsin, not only for > > > the cast, but because as a conductor he observes literally all of the > > > written dynamics without every making it seem lifeless or academic - > > > very much the opposite. The worst recording I think I have heard is > > > the MET live performance under Emil Cooper in English, with a terribly > > > poor cast (including Tibbett on his last legs) and with only a > > > stellar Hines. But Cooper who was very important with this opera, as > > > you know, pays no attention, his cast pays less, and he reinvents > > > Rimsky, not to much effect as I can see.
> > > All best
> > I would not pronounce too readily here, it's such a matter of taste. I > > like both orchestrations, well performed, but I tend to enjoy the > > original Marina-less version to the later revisions. I enjoy the > > bipartite Maryinsky set, but it hasn't got the best singers in the > > world; it just works as an idiomatic ensemble performance, or rather > > two. Also, my experience of Boris is wholly European, so I don't have > > that much knowledge of the Met; I never heard Pinza, except on some > > discs my wife's stepfather played me, and I only heard Hines live in > > Wagner at the end of his career. I admire the Abbado in many ways, but > > it isn't the one I turn to instinctively. I also like the understated > > Gergiev DVD with Robert Lloyd, although his Russian's worse than mine!
> > I take it the Nebolsin you mean is the one that served as soundtrack > > to the old Bolshoi film with Pirogov. I only have that on video, > > Soviet era, and unsurprisingly I have trouble with the sound, which > > prevents me assessing it fairly; it strikes me as a good, solid and > > above all idiomatic reading, certainly. But I find more excitement in > > the old Dobrowen, and I have a soft spot, despite the rough sound, for > > the old Melik-Pashayev recording with George London grafted in -- > > towering central performance, unslackening drama, and M-P whips up the > > tension. I also quite like Karajan and Cluytens in their individual > > ways, especially vocally; but this is all very personal and not > > necessarily expert. I will say, though, that I do not at all like the > > Semkow with Talvela, or the Rostropovich.
> > Cheers,
> > Mike- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> Ah, thanks so much. I can't believe I didn't know about the Dobrowen! > I don't think I have ever heard it, and that now moves to assignment > 1. He accompanies Schanbel on the later of the Beethoven Piano > Concertos, and something like 40 years after I first heard the set (on > the old Angel LPs, in that luxurious black box - a huge present to > myself in college after first year) they are still vivid in my mind. > You obviously konw this stuff MUCH better than I and I much appreciate > the pointers and recommendations.
> Will follow up soon.
> All best
Partly it's a professional knowledge; but I don't for example know so much about the more obscure recordings, "historical" and so on, which many swear by -- and, as I said, I've little experience of the US stuff. Anyhow, so much is a matter of taste; a lot of people might find Dobrowen old-fashioned and a bit stagey, and the sound is of course mono, so don't expect too much. And sometimes there's a set you know isn't the best, can't possibly be, and yet it says something to you personally. Such is the Danish Boris with the late Aage Haugland doing a Boris Christoff and singing all three bass star roles. Haugland's distinctive metallic tone is even harder to disguise than Christoff's was, the conducting is variable and so are some of the smaller roles, but there's still something in the performance that catches my interest. So do please take anything I say as just opening a direction to explore.
Sometimes, too, a performance can mean a lot more to those who actually heard the performers. For me, for example, splendid as many Beethoven concertos are -- and what I've heard of Schnabel is indeed extraordinary -- I most often put on a modest set with John Lill and the Scottish National Orchestra under Sir Alexander Gibson, because they're the first I heard, and there's still -- for me -- a unique freshness in them. But if I were asked to recommend a set professionally (although I don't actually deal with piano) it would be one of the big bow-wows -- Schnabel, indeed, if modern sound wasn't an issue, because Naxos have him at bargain price, or Solomon; or Andras Schiff, or Brendel -- safer choices for the general.
But then, if music isn't personal, what is it? So many critics, and even more interval wiseacres, don't remember that. I hate to hear someone sneering at a particular preference; it's usually the first mark of an ignoramus!
<mike.scott.ro...@asgardpublishing.co.uk> wrote: > I take it the Nebolsin you mean is the one that served as soundtrack > to the old Bolshoi film with Pirogov. I only have that on video, > Soviet era, and unsurprisingly I have trouble with the sound, which > prevents me assessing it fairly; it strikes me as a good, solid and > above all idiomatic reading, certainly.
I also have this in audio-only (I think that it's on Preiser), and the sound is OK. But I prefer the "other" Nebolsin, with Reizen dropped in in place of Pirogov.
> But I find more excitement in > the old Dobrowen, and I have a soft spot, despite the rough sound, for > the old Melik-Pashayev recording with George London grafted in -- > towering central performance, unslackening drama, and M-P whips up the > tension.
The presence of Arkhipova doesn't hurt, either. As with the Nebolsin, I prefer the "other" one with Petrov, as originally recorded, rather than with London.
> I also quite like Karajan and Cluytens in their individual > ways, especially vocally; but this is all very personal and not > necessarily expert.
I'm not much of a fan of either. I'm not a Christoff fan, which pretty much rules the Cluytens out of consideration, and except for Ghiaurov's well sung but rather bland Tsar, Karajan doesn't offer much cast-wise.
> I will say, though, that I do not at all like the > Semkow with Talvela, or the Rostropovich.
Ditto, albeit for very different reasons. Semkow assembled a very, very good cast of little-known Eastern European singers - e.g. Paprocki, Raptis, Mroz, Hiolski), but at the center is a Boris who's really a little too soft-edged. And I'm not sure why - perhaps lack of rehearsal and familiarity with the original orchestration - but the orchestral contribution consistently lacks drama. Rostropovich has the opposite problem - great conducting, truly awful cast.
I also have a soft spot for the Bolshoi set with Nesterenko, Obratsova, and Atlantov, Ermler conducting. The Polish act really breathes fire in that one.
