Greatest POP entertainer in history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Charlie,the Opera
tapef...@webtv.net
It's a tough call, and *always* a subjective one, - but to many fans in
the generation preceding mine, and even since, - that accolade usually
went to Al Jolson, and a while later, to Sammy Davis, Jr. Each was of
tremendous and varied talent, singing included, personality-galore,
adding up to a seldom-equalled appeal to the vast fan-majorities of
their times.
Were some new bio-pic to made, soon, about either gent, - my bet is
that it would be cast SO badly as to be an absolute shame, rather than
the honor it should be.
LT
Charlie,the Opera
I adore JOLSON.......GREAT..My ma saw him...big ego...but i love
him..he and Ethel..and Judy garland.and a few others....special...ch
>
> LT
edo...@gmail.com
still vote for him as the greatest entertainer in history. Fortunately,
both "The Jolson Story" & "Jolson Sings Again" are available on DVD,
and will never be matched. Sure, the stories are a little, or a lot of
Hollywood, but the person is Jolson, and the voice singing was Jolson,
right there on the movie sets in 1946 and 1949. The songs alone make
these films a must for anyone interested in great entertainers and
singers. Also, Jolson actually does make an appearance in the first
movie. While filming "Swanee" Jolson insisted that Larry Parks just
couldn't quite get it right, so the person playing Jolson in the
"Swanee" segment is indeed Jolson. He is shown from a medium distance
only, and is in blackface, but anyone familiar with Jolson from his
early films can tell that this is indeed the real thing, as good as
Parks was with his imitation. Just the little steps and most of all the
charisma is pure Jolson!
BTW, to give this a slight operatic connection, Jolson and Caruso were
good friends from about 1910 until Caruso died in 1921. Jolson was
already a star on Broadway, and he and Caruso struck up a friendship
while appearing in the same charity benefit. Caruso was a great admirer
of Jolson, and, allegedly, Jolson followed Caruso in a war time concert
benefit in 1918. Caruso sang the Cohan "Over There" and the applause
was tumultuous. Jolson came on immediately after Caruso, and coined the
phrase, "You ain't heard nothing yet!" And he was correct!!
Ed
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
there is something about that voice which is so genuine...it sings right to
the heart. Problem is...I can't really think of a person who could be
awarded that accolade. I know my grandparents and my mom were very fond of
him...we had the old 78s around to prove it. But he really was of another
era of entertainment. I'm afraid too many might brand him 'corny'...without
listening to that magical voice of his.
Now if you ask for 'song stylist'...I'd have to go with either Tony Bennett
or Ella Fitzgerald.
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
(aka 'fan of the 2 Jolson films')
"premie...@aol.com" <edo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156011354.9...@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
tapef...@webtv.net
Perhaps "Jolie", as many affectionately called him, was "The Caruso of
Pop" in his day. There was a warmth, a sincerity in his
seldom-equalled song renditions, that were somehow comparable to
Caruso's Operatic and Napolitane Canzoni recordings.
One doesn't have to be a Grandparent in his/her '90s (or more) to be
totally charmed by AJ doing his own song, "The Anniversary Waltz", a
timeless classic then, now, and always.
The voice, with its beloved "man of the people" sound, -yet unique at
the same time, was a sort of bass-baritone, at his peak, assuming, of
course, that the recording-speeds were reasonably accurate.
LT
tapef...@webtv.net
>Now if you ask for 'song stylist'...I'd have to go with either Tony >Bennett or Ella Fitzgerald.
Both of whom were leagues finer than a certain even more celebrated F.
A. Sinatra, Sr. -IMNHO.
Ella F.'s sound and style were pure velvet; warm and sexy without every
being gaudy or gimmicky. She sang songs so you could actually
recognize the melody(!). The more you heard her, the more you loved
her.
Tony Bennett, who's still going strong, afaik, had/has an ordinary
sound, but sang *better*, and with more heart and personality, than
many of his contemporaries who were considerably more-gifted,
voice-wise (Vic Damone, for example, though an excellent singer, too,
in his own way).
LT
alanwa...@aol.com
I had the honour of playing a couple of times for Ella Fitzgerald
(nothing much, just glock and vibes and roto-toms on her obligatory
encore Fever) but what a wonderful charming lady! A superb musician
who had her audience in her hands but who also wandered among the band
thanking all of us afterwards...........
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Richard Loeb
news:1156025978.6...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
alanwa...@aol.com
I got a KISS...but everyone did.
That was the girl!
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Sinatra...but Bennett & Fitzgerald were the tops IMHO. I only saw Ella once
in person...wish I'd seen her more.
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
<alanwa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156025978.6...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
F R
that accolade usually went to Al Jolson, and a while later, to Sammy
Davis, Jr. Each was of tremendous and varied talent, singing
included, personality-galore, adding up to a seldom-equalled appeal to
the vast fan-majorities of their times.
i was lucky enough to see sammy davis jr. perform at the concord hotel
in the summer of 1961. for all i know, it could have been on this exact
date.
i worked there but was friends with the owner's (arthur winarick)
grandson, so got to see all the shows.
i have a very vivid recollection of who i saw each saturday. paul anka,
alan king, steve and edie, marlene dietrich, buddy hackett, connie
francis, who went over HUGE when she sang first her big hit "mama" and
followed immediately with "my yiddisha mama".
sammy was great of course but later that evening, maybe around 2 a.m. he
walks into the lounge off the lobby. he's definitely feeling no pain.
goes to the 4 piece jazz combo, whispers something and for the next 75
minutes or so, he just sang and sang and sang. what a voice!!! there
were definitely less than 30 people in there at the time.
he ended his "show" by asking a guest to think of a title for a song.
the person said, "happy ending". sammy whispers to the combo again, then
goes ahead and sings a very pretty impromptu song that impressed the
hell out of me.
it still does 45 years later.
frank
tapef...@webtv.net
Jon E. Szostak, Sr. wrote:
She was the Genuine Article, combining consummate talent with personal
charm and sincerity. Take nearly any song of her era, - and her
rendition is likely to have others' seeming poor by comparison. Not
too many, even among the greats, that one could say this about.
Another who isn't mentioned much, these days: Jo Stafford. Real
quality in voice and style, too.
> > Kind regards,
> > Alan M. Watkins
LT
tapef...@webtv.net
Sammy D was one of the greatest, ever, - and often made fine tributes
to fellow stars. One, was an album of Nat King Cole favorites.
For someone else, this would have been an ambitious attempt, maybe
too-much so, but Davis' renditions were actually comparable to the
Original, himself!
When Sammy Davis Jr. and another beloved star, Jim Henson, died
-suddenly, and very close apart, timewise,- the NY Post's headline
stated simply that "They touched us...."
That, they did!
alanwa...@aol.com
Yes, she was the Genuine Article.
Nice mention of Jo Stafford, now in her nineties I believe is she is
still with us.
What they have in common, probably, is the "style".
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
a choral singer...I think is something of a curse...though great for a
soloist. Here's a good info site about her-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Stafford
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
<alanwa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156111440.1...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
alanwa...@aol.com
Jon E. Szostak, Sr. wrote:
> Loved the sound of her voice and Jo Stafford had perfect pitch. Which...in
> a choral singer...I think is something of a curse...though great for a
> soloist. Here's a good info site about her-
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Stafford
>
> Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
>
REG
more an English artist, and her material was largely English until the early
60s. Maybe because her material tended to be somewhat of a sentimental
style. However, I'd put her in the top ten of interpreters in any language
and any art form . Forget about the Cliffs of Dover and everything else, and
listen to her sing "Heart and Soul" and then tell me .
"Jon E. Szostak, Sr." <jszostaks...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:UJKdnZ1DkZm1e3XZ...@comcast.com...
tapef...@webtv.net
I believe that, whereas Opera's characters, the delivery of their
arias, and stage actions are somewhat cut-and-dried, made so by the
creators' stories and libretti, - Popular song is considerably
different, lending itself to individuality; uniqueness of *renditions,
so that when you hear Stafford, Fitzgerald, Bennett, or Nat Cole, even
in the most standard songs, the recognition is both instantaneous and
totally delightful, every time.
>Kind regards,
>Alan M. Watkins
Best,
LT
* A dissent: Changing the *melody* of a song, as too many song
"stylists" often choose to do, - is rarely if ever a good idea.
IMO.
F R
does not still have be at his/her peak to enjoy their songs. as leonard
pointed out, frankie laine was still fun to watch at 92. many 50s-60s
acts still sound great, most promininently IMO, john fogerty of
creedence clearwater revival.
on the other hand, once an opera singer is "done".. usually by the time
they reach 50-55, people often scoff at their continued efforts even
though they still sound good, but not as they were. this is a shame in
a manner of speaking again IMO
i still love to see acts like the cadillacs, the crests ( although
johnny maestro has lost little), the skyliners, etc, even when they are
not what they sued to be. on the "this "this land is your land" the
brothers 4 were seemingly to me better than ever i love their harmonies
and arrangements of them. seemingly more intricate than most folk
groups.
they perfromed their hit "greenfields" at a slightly slower tempo than
their hit. then they did "try to remember" from the fantastiks. if you
like that kind of harmony, check it out sometime.
frank
grndp...@aol.com
Here are some others I would nominate:
(1) Edith Piaf
-- "Non, je ne rregrette rien..."
(2) Jacques Brel
-- "Si on n'a que l'amour..'
(3) Maurice Chevalier
-- "Every little breeze seems to whisper Louise..."
(4) Groucho Marx
-- "Whatever it is, I'm against it..."
(5) Neil Sedaka
-- "Breaking up is hard to do..."
==G/P Dave
Richard Loeb
news:1156166573.8...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
La Donna Mobile
To be honest, I think it's a bit of a silly thread. I don't suppose
there are many contributors to rmo who have seen a great many pop
entertainers outside of the era they prefer, which is probably likely to
be the era when they were teenagers.
And is it about entertainment or singing? Madonna is currently on tour;
the reports both professional and amateur are saying the show's great,
the voice is shot through. Personally, I like Madonna's Eighties stuff,
but I can't say I care for anything she's done since.
And is an entertainer better if they can project a larger than life show
into an enormous arena or field, or if they can hold an audience in the
palm of their hand in an intimate venue.
I would just say, you can't judge a pop singer by their records: you've
got to have heard them live. And frankly, there aren't the singers now
that there were in the Golden Age.
--
http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/weblog/
http://www.geraldine-curtis.me.uk/photoblog/
edo...@gmail.com
La Donna Mobile wrote:
I would just say, you can't judge a pop singer by their records:
you've
got to have heard them live.
===============================================================
And I would say that the above holds true for opera singers, too.
Always has, although singers like Caruso or even Gigli have to be
exceptions, since it is virtually impossible for many or any on this
list to have heard them live in complete opera performances. Many of
the all time greats from the first half of the 20th century can only be
judged by recordings and live performance tapes.
Ed
Ken Meltzer
I think it probably holds more true for opera singers than for pop
singers. Most pop singers perform with the aid of amplification. So,
there's not a huge difference in how they perform for recordings or for
a live audience, at least so far as sound production is concerned. In
both cases, they sing into a microphone.
Not so with opera singers, at least not in the usual course of events.
They record with microphones, but are expected to project their voices,
without amplification, into a large hall.
I've heard many pop singers live-Mel Torme, Sarah Vaughan, and Tony
Bennett, for example. While the aspect of seeing them live brought a
greater level of excitement, their voices sounded pretty much the same
as on recordings (BTW, Tony Bennett used to love to demonstrate how he
could be heard without a microphone in a large concert hall). I
haven't experienced that level of consistency with opera singers, when
comparing their recordings to what they sound like "live."
Best,
Ken
tapef...@webtv.net
>Honestly, I would say this thread is silly
With greater honesty, I do say that the above statement is silly.
><snipped>
>I would just say, you can't judge a pop singer by their records: you've
>got to have heard them live.
While it's preferable and desirable to have heard them live, it isn't
always possible (never knew that, huh?), expecially when we just didn't
happen to be around during their lifetimes, or at least, the active
parts of their careers.
Anyway, that argument has long been cliche'd and primarily bogus. It
grossly underestimates the quality of recordings in the post-Caruso
eras, or no one would ever dare "judge" any recordings of oldtimers, -
just because they "didn't hear them live". Guess what: That isn't
happening. Not here, and not among fans of pop-singing throughout most
of the twentieth century.
>And frankly, there aren't the singers now
>that there were in the Golden Age.
By your own expressed logic, you can't possibly know that - simply
because:
"Y-o-u d-i-d n-o-t h-e-a-r t-h-e-m l-i-v-e."
-Or *did* you? Eh?
>anyway Is it about singing or entertaining?
No, it's all about their hairstyles, right?
Please!
Semantics can be fun, but this is an over-stretch.
Vissi D'arte
WEhen my ma was on the stage (chorus line) in the 20;s....she knew
some of the greats..like Jimmie Durante,for example....Then there was
fanny Brice,Sophie Tucker and others..like Jolson and Harry
Richman.,Bert Lahr...
and then of course in MY time..and before.....we had Merman and Garland
and Lena Horne and Louis Armstrong and Mary Martin and sammy
davis,Jr....so we all have our favorites..as with opera....but i still
say that Jolson and Merman and garland stand out...but that is my
opinion.
I wish we had some decent NEW shows...the stuff we get is so
schlocccccky.....CH
Little Jimmy Olsen
"premie...@aol.com" <edo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156011354.9...@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Markie's Only fan
Blackface..and other stereotopyes were part,sadly, of film and stage.
I once showed a class a special documentary on the treatment of blacks
in film..(the "Stepandfechit' theory.).
No,I think Jolson..and others...(Eddie cantor,etc.) just fit in as part
of the way it was...lousy as it was. Charlie
Stephen Worth
Jimmy Olsen <seniorcu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Blackface . . was Jolson a racist or was it just a case of Vissi d'Arte?
When Jolie died, Louis Armstrong was one of his pallbearers. Armstrong
said that Jolson did more for the black race than any other white
entertainer.
Jolson took blackface, which up to that time had been used in a highly
stylized and regimented way to demean, and turned it around. Jolson's
character had heart and warmth. He felt the pains of the common
man and expressed them in a way that anyone- white or black- could
identify with. Armstrong said that this was a very brave and considerate
portrayal, and it was responsible for getting a foot in the door to
change the hearts and minds of the average white person.
See ya
Steve
--
Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD! http://www.vintageip.com/records/
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alcindoro
got to have heard them live.<
This is just plain ridiculous. "Pop singers" are popular BECAUSE of
their recordings.
That is how their work becomes known by the populace, and that is what
makes them popular. Seeing them live may enhance or reinforce the
individual opinion of them, but recordings (including TV, film and
radio) are the defining element of the
"pop" artist.
Little Jimmy Olsen
"Markie's Only fan" <vissida...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156264495....@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I see. Compare and contrast that with E.S.
Little Jimmy Olsen
"Stephen Worth" <ne...@vintageip.com> wrote in message
news:220820061015187872%ne...@vintageip.com...
> In article <ScFGg.194$bM....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Little
> Jimmy Olsen <seniorcu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Blackface . . was Jolson a racist or was it just a case of Vissi d'Arte?
>
> When Jolie died, Louis Armstrong was one of his pallbearers. Armstrong
> said that Jolson did more for the black race than any other white
> entertainer.
>
> Jolson took blackface, which up to that time had been used in a highly
> stylized and regimented way to demean, and turned it around. Jolson's
> character had heart and warmth. He felt the pains of the common
> man and expressed them in a way that anyone- white or black- could
> identify with. Armstrong said that this was a very brave and considerate
> portrayal, and it was responsible for getting a foot in the door to
> change the hearts and minds of the average white person.
>
> See ya
> Steve
>
Ah. So Jolson cannilly uplifted the spirits of black folk and advanced their
acceptance by white society by portraying them as ludicrous simpleminded
fools? He must have been revolted by the benefits to his own career but,
being such a great man, accepted it as the unfortunate byproduct of social
progress. Armstrong was a great horn player but I doubt his objectivity. The
notion that white entertainers in blackface did it to advance the cause of
black people doesn't wash. In a small segregated southern town in the
forties and fifties I witnessed several "Nigger Minstrels" that were as
obscenely racial as anything a sick mind could conjure. These were common
all over America.
ljo
Donald Grove
The other night, my friend wanted to watch the Better Davis film
"Jezebel". It was so painful to see black actors playing happy
slaves. Actors need jobs, even black actors. If you wanted to work,
sometimes you made a picture like Jezebel. Eventually I just stopped
watching.
The legacy of racism in the US is grotesque. Black people got the
worst of it, without ever even seeking to come here, and they continue
to get the worst of it today. I agree with you that blackface
routines, coon shows, contained a lot of styles and traditions that
were putting black people down just for a laugh. That is how
dispensable they were. As was shown repeatedly in different venues,
their lives had little importance to most white people.
But I think the legacy of Jolson is more complex. You can see it as
ironic that he included his perspective as a Jew from the Lower East
Side in some of his movies, especially the Jazz Singer. And one does
not excuse the other. But I found the Jazz Singer to be a really
remarkable film that speaks to what it means to perform on "someone
else's" stage. Jolson's character is forced to confront the pain and
loss of assimilation. The pain doesn't stop his character from
assimilating, but the film is more about the pain and the conflict in
assimilation than about it's rewards. And the stage Jolson performs on
is not a Jewish stage. When I started watching it, I expected
something more shallow, with more stereotypes, and instead I got a
very touching story.
So, yes, there is a disconnect between how Jolson portrayed his own
experience of the cultural conflicts experienced by second generation
Jews in the US, and his willingness to put on blackface, L Armstrong
notwithstanding. And the fact that he wasn't "shallow" about his own
experience doesn't excuse his perpetuation of racist stereotypes. I
guess I would like to know more about how he related to racism around
him, though, before I would write him off as a racist.
Like Charlie said, the ugliness was everywhere (and a lot of it still
is). The disconnect is one seen by me in my time. It doesn't change
what blackface is, but I think in Al Jolson, I am dealing with a more
complex person than I am with the people who wrote Amos and Andy, for
instance.
dsg
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:24:31 GMT, "Little Jimmy Olsen"
Little Jimmy Olsen
"Donald Grove" <donal...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lt2ne2lpf5qs3qgme...@4ax.com...
Sometimes things are just what they appear to be. I'm no expert but what
I've read suggests that Jolson was no more complex than the next egomaniac,
always on the lookout for the main chance. He started with blackface in 1904
and there is nothing to suggest that it was somehow motivated by noble
impulses. That is an absurd notion. He did it for the money. It got laughs
and jobs. I do not know whether he was a racist or just another guy without
a moral compass.
ljo
Stephen Worth
Little Jimmy Olsen <seniorcu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ah. So Jolson cannilly uplifted the spirits of black folk and advanced their
> acceptance by white society by portraying them as ludicrous simpleminded
> fools?
You don't know anything about Jolson.
Little Jimmy Olsen
> In article <PRIGg.12565$xp2....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> Little Jimmy Olsen <seniorcu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Ah. So Jolson cannilly uplifted the spirits of black folk and advanced
>> their
>> acceptance by white society by portraying them as ludicrous simpleminded
>> fools?
>
> You don't know anything about Jolson.
>
> See ya
> Steve
>
Thanks for clarifying.
La Donna Mobile
>>I would just say, you can't judge a pop singer by their records: you've
>
> got to have heard them live.<
>
> This is just plain ridiculous. "Pop singers" are popular BECAUSE of
> their recordings.
It's not ridiculous, it just has a limited truth. I would argue that
IME, there are certain pop acts that come over well live but I don't
enjoy (or have any desire to buy) their recorded stuff. These range from
local unfamous acts, including live bands I have seen doing 'local
music' in far flung places to global superstars like The Who. I would
also say that there are a great many pop acts whose studio performances
are smoke and mirrors and who have been booed when they attempt - and
fail - to perform live (Posh Spice....)
Regarding two of my favourite singers, I thought Nanci Griffith was
really mediocre, if that, live, but that doesn't stop me enjoying her
records, and Billy Bragg is very different live from on records.
Sometimes it's just about subtly changing the words to reflect something
topical, but it's also about the narrative he provides. I liked him
before I saw him live, then I loved him, and I saw him live a few months
ago for the first time since 1997, and, despite having bought and
enjoyed CDs in the interim, I have renewed my fervour for him.
Admittedly this is just anecdotes about my experience, but when you buy
a ticket for certain pop acts you want a lot more of a 'show' than just
a regurgitation of the records. Why pay out money if you can get the
same effect in your living room?
If I were attempt to be objective about the 'greatest pop acts ever' I
would cite Sinatra, Elvis and the Beatles. But even though I'm actually
citing acts that date from before I got into pop music in any sort of
serious way, I'm very much anchored in a mainstream Anglophone white
male frame of reference, which (minus the male) is the vast proportion
of my pop collection.
Well, apart from the cheesy Latino pop, of course. But for some reason,
that's shelved alongside opera...
> That is how their work becomes known by the populace, and that is what
> makes them popular. Seeing them live may enhance or reinforce the
> individual opinion of them, but recordings (including TV, film and
> radio) are the defining element of the
> "pop" artist.
>
clem
my E.S. disks far more often than my one Jolson disk) Now if you could
show me a tape of E.S. wearing a sheitl and singing "Yiddishe Mama" or
provide evidence of any association of Jolson with the KKK,...
Paul
clem
than Sinatra. I think you may have a case with Ella, whose style was
absolutely unique, and who seems to have created her own genre. But I
know of no cut by Tony Bennett that comes up to the best Sinatra torch
songs - "What's New," Willow weep for me" "A cottage for sale" "One for
my Baby" to name but four.
Regards,
Paul
clem
could get my hands on! Smooth, unique style, she had. Her cut of "I
remember you" is one of my favorites. I have also begun to listen to
Dinah Shore recordings from the 1940's. "I'll walk alone" is one of her
finest cuts, IMHO.
Regards,
Paul
tapef...@webtv.net wrote:
> Jon E. Szostak, Sr. wrote:
> > I couldn't agree more with both Leonard and Alan. Mind you...I like
> > Sinatra...but Bennett & Fitzgerald were the tops IMHO. I only saw Ella once
> > in person...wish I'd seen her more.
> >
> > Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
> >
> >
> > <alanwa...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:1156025978.6...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > tapef...@webtv.net wrote:
> > >> >Now if you ask for 'song stylist'...I'd have to go with either Tony
> > >> > >Bennett or Ella Fitzgerald.
> > >>
> > >> Both of whom were leagues finer than a certain even more celebrated F.
> > >> A. Sinatra, Sr. -IMNHO.
> > >>
> > >> Ella F.'s sound and style were pure velvet; warm and sexy without every
> > >> being gaudy or gimmicky. She sang songs so you could actually
> > >> recognize the melody(!). The more you heard her, the more you loved
> > >> her.
> > >>
> > >> Tony Bennett, who's still going strong, afaik, had/has an ordinary
> > >> sound, but sang *better*, and with more heart and personality, than
> > >> many of his contemporaries who were considerably more-gifted,
> > >> voice-wise (Vic Damone, for example, though an excellent singer, too,
> > >> in his own way).
> > >>
> > >> LT
> > >
> > >
> > > I had the honour of playing a couple of times for Ella Fitzgerald
> > > (nothing much, just glock and vibes and roto-toms on her obligatory
> > > encore Fever) but what a wonderful charming lady! A superb musician
> > > who had her audience in her hands but who also wandered among the band
> > > thanking all of us afterwards...........
>
> She was the Genuine Article, combining consummate talent with personal
> charm and sincerity. Take nearly any song of her era, - and her
> rendition is likely to have others' seeming poor by comparison. Not
> too many, even among the greats, that one could say this about.
>
> Another who isn't mentioned much, these days: Jo Stafford. Real
> quality in voice and style, too.
>
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Alan M. Watkins
>
> LT
Little Jimmy Olsen
"clem" <labi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156358161.7...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Sorry, Little Jimmy, but I just do not see the comparison. (and I play
> my E.S. disks far more often than my one Jolson disk) Now if you could
> show me a tape of E.S. wearing a sheitl and singing "Yiddishe Mama" or
> provide evidence of any association of Jolson with the KKK,...
>
> Paul
>
Well, it was Charlie's homework, not yours. To ask for "compare and
contrast" is not to assert similarities or differences. Frankly I was struck
that not a single criticism was directed toward Jolson's career of pissing
on Blacks for his own greater glory, coming, as the thread did, sharply on
the heels of the Elisabeth Schwartzkopf tsunami of obloquy. And please do
not take this occasion to charge me with anti-semitism.
Thank you,
ljo
clem
don't think I quite deserved that last one. We have had a long and
mostly pleasant association. And my remark was rather light-hearted,
non? What is more, I did not participate in the "obloquy" other than to
say that I continue to enjoy ES's recordings, but prefer
Rothenberger's. Your uncle Charles B. had a great affection for
Anneliese as well, as I recall.
Kidding aside, the last remark was hurtful.
Regards, still,
Paul
Little Jimmy Olsen wrote:
clem
Paul
Little Jimmy Olsen
> Ouch! Little Jimmy, despite my recent actions and subsequent apology, I
> don't think I quite deserved that last one. We have had a long and
> mostly pleasant association. And my remark was rather light-hearted,
> non? What is more, I did not participate in the "obloquy" other than to
> say that I continue to enjoy ES's recordings, but prefer
> Rothenberger's. Your uncle Charles B. had a great affection for
> Anneliese as well, as I recall.
>
> Kidding aside, the last remark was hurtful.
>
> Regards, still,
>
> Paul
>
On the positive side I didn't ask you not to call me a moron.
REG
issues are clear, although I don't think he ever sang for the Waffen-SS, but
I can find almost nothing to fault him on as a singing artist, other than
the fact that I don't always like his repertoire.
Any explanations would be appreciated.
"clem" <labi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156358616.1...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
F R
issues are clear, although I don't think he ever sang for the Waffen-SS,
but I can find almost nothing to fault him on as a singing artist, other
than the fact that I don't always like his repertoire.
Any explanations would be appreciated.
REG,
i preface this by reminding you that i have zero musical training, have
never studied music and truly know nothing technically.
i only know what my ear hears and what my brain tells me i like.
i admire sinatra greatly. he seemingly created his own genre' with his
style on so many dozens of great swing songs.
what i don't like about sinatra is i often hear a voice that does not
have the "charisma" i thought frank portrayed when you'd see him
performing live or on t.v. i find his voice very ordinary on many of
these type of songs.
i've mentioned bobby darin whenever i've had a chance.. and this gives
me another one, thank you very much. darin recorded many, many songs
that sinatra did and to me, his versions are often superior. his
"personality" comes across more than frank's and it's that quality that
makes this style of singing fun to listen to IMO.
singing the same repetoire, i'll take dean martin, sammy davis jr, and
steve lawrence ahead of sinatra as well....especially lawrence. their
voices all sound "brighter" to me.
the words i put in quotation marks were done that way because i have a
problem describing specifically what i am trying to say.
again, it's just my ear and my opinion.
frank
Richard Loeb
"F R" <espo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25536-44E...@storefull-3316.bay.webtv.net...
Its because people mix up his off-stage antics with his talent - he was one
of the great singers of this century - he could also be extremely generous
in real life. There is no denying his mob connections and the fact that he
went on too long - but the majority of his work is outstanding - he really
knew how to use a microphone. I have all of his reissued albums and the
entire Reprise set - amazing stuff there Richard
F R
never studied music and truly know nothing technically. i only know what
my ear hears and what my brain tells me i like.
i admire sinatra greatly. he seemingly created his own genre' with his
style on so many dozens of great swing songs.
what i don't like about sinatra is i often hear a voice that does not
have the "charisma" i thought frank portrayed when you'd see him
performing live or on t.v. i find his voice very ordinary on many of
these type of songs.
i've mentioned bobby darin whenever i've had a chance.. and this gives
me another one, thank you very much. darin recorded many, many songs
that sinatra did and to me, his versions are often superior. his
"personality" comes across more than frank's and it's that quality that
makes this style of singing fun to listen to IMO.
singing the same repetoire, i'll take dean martin, sammy davis jr, and
steve lawrence ahead of sinatra as well....especially lawrence. their
voices all sound "brighter" to me.
the words i put in quotation marks were done that way because i have a
problem describing specifically what i am trying to say.
again, it's just my ear and my opinion.
frank
richard loeb> Its because people mix up his off-stage antics with his
talent - he was one of the great singers of this century - he could also
be extremely generous in real life. There is no denying his mob
connections and the fact that he went on too long - but the majority of
his work is outstanding - he really knew how to use a microphone. I have
all of his reissued albums and the entire Reprise set - amazing stuff
there Richard
i think you hit the nail on the head richard. yes, the whole rat pack
thing. maybe it's not a coincidence i like sammy and dino too.
richard, perhaps you could do me a favor, and i am asking this in all
sincerity.....
you are a sinatra afficionado, at least compared to me and seemingly in
general, as your collection suggests.
just to let you know where i'm coming from.. one of my all time top 5
"standards" is sinatra's "i've got you under my skin." i have about 8 of
his albums, as much to listen to the big band arrangements as to hear
him, i admit, but there are at least 50 songs by frank that i enjoy
every time i hear them, so i am in no way demeaning his body of work.
here's my favor... if you would go to any site that has the following 3
bobby darin songs and listen to them. they are "always", "the
nightingale sang in barkley square" and "there's a rainbow round my
shoulder".
i would enjoy so much your commentary, not because i am saying i like
these better than sinatra's, and you should too. no, not at all... but i
would truly value your opinion about what you think of these 3 tunes,
including the arrangements.
if you are so inclined feel free to email me if you care to or post
here.
thanks,
frank
tapef...@webtv.net
clem wrote:
> Ah, you said it, Len! I have tried to collect every Jo Stafford cut I
> could get my hands on!
Not easy to do, now, - unless you happen to luck-out at the few
remaining collectors' LP/tape shops around. One good possibility is the
downtown Tower store, where they seem to be getting a lot of
CD-reissues of many long-neglected oldtimers, perhaps soon to include
Jo Stafford.
>Smooth, unique style, she had. Her cut of "I
> remember you" is one of my favorites.
I love her singing "It's Magic", - first time I ever heard her.
>I have also begun to listen to
> Dinah Shore recordings from the 1940's. "I'll walk alone" is one of her
> finest cuts, IMHO.
Ah, Shore!!! A Super Pop-Diva!
At least the equal of any and all the great ladies we've mentioned thus
far!
What a totally gorgeous voice hers was, coupled with personal charm to
the Maximum! - a natural and rich mezzo sound, if ever there was one!
I feel that even Streisand and her similarly talented half-sister
Roslyn Kind, fond as I am of their singing, pale, somewhat, when
compared to Dinah (who co-starred with Alan Young and - Robert Merrill
- in the not-too-successful flick, "Aaron Slick from Punkin Crick).
>Regards,
>
> Paul
LT
Binkie Huckaback
tapef...@webtv.net wrote:
> It's a tough call, and *always* a subjective one, - but to many fans in
> the generation preceding mine, and even since, - that accolade usually
> went to Al Jolson, and a while later, to Sammy Davis, Jr.
Agreed. But the man to beat is Charles Trenet.
Binkie Huckaback, AJ
and...@comcast.net
"Binkie Huckaback" <a...@cts.canberra.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1156384776.5...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Agreed. But the man to beat is Charles Trenet.
>
> Binkie Huckaback, AJ
>
Is he presently in La Terre ou La Mer?
St. André ~ Juif
I believe even FR's Bobby covered La Mer . . . mercilessly !!
tapef...@webtv.net
I never heard him perform, but love his songs, the ones popularized in
the US.
tapef...@webtv.net
clem wrote:
> I respectfully disagree with you about Bennett being "Leagues finer"
> than Sinatra.
How about just a single "League", then?
>I think you may have a case with Ella, whose style was
> absolutely unique, and who seems to have created her own genre. But I
> know of no cut by Tony Bennett that comes up to the best Sinatra torch
> songs - "What's New," Willow weep for me" "A cottage for sale" "One for
> my Baby" to name but four.
I don't know of any, either:
To me, any Bennett-cut is considerably above the best Sinatra torch
songs, in quality.
Now, OTOH, as a dramatic *actor*, FAS was top-drawer, however he
managed to get his roles, especially "Maggio" in FHTE.
> Regards,
>
> Paul
LT
clem
though. Hope you can as well.
Paul
tapef...@webtv.net
REG wrote:
> I am curious about what people don't like about Sinatra. The >personality
> issues are clear,
And in themselves, adequate.
Yes, there are apocryphal stories of FAS' anonymously giving thousands
of $$$'s to the needy he'd come across, but also, many conflicting ones
about how he behaved, both verbally and physically, to the various
other "little guys (and gals)" in his orbit.
although I don't think he ever sang for the Waffen-SS,
Not at all??? Ever?????
Hmm....come to think of it, he didn't, - did he....
>but I can find almost nothing to fault him on as a singing artist, other than
> the fact that I don't always like his repertoire.
>
> Any explanations would be appreciated.
Of his rep, only positive statements can be made, as he recorded very
nearly every existing pop song in the Western hemisphere, - "something
for everyone". At Tower records, there's long been a special Frank
Sinatra section, - so immense and varied is his recorded legacy!
But something in his outward style could be a turnoff, despite his
obvious and consummate mastery of showmanship and all its aspects: The
voice sounded, as some wag once described, "as though it came from his
armpit"; An impression shared by some and not by everyone. There was
also an overabundance of "The cool dude, just breezin' along with his
song" bit, so that he that he generally sounded less than sincere and
much less than moving. I've enjoyed some of his song-renditions, but
they were the exceptions.
I'd rather hear an Al Martino or Tony Bennett, anytime. Martino, btw,
had and has a beautiful high-baritone voice. Ever hear his "Nessun
Dorma"? A bit out of his fach, for sure, - but still impressive.
LT
clem
Sinatra to Bennett by the same wide margin that you prefer Bennett. We
seem to agree completely though on Ella, Jo Stafford, Dinah Shore, Nat
King Cole, and on "not changing the melody," so 5 out of 6 ain't bad!
Regards,
Paul
P.S. I don't care for Bobby Darrin at all.
tapef...@webtv.net
clem wrote:
> OK Len, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one;
Agreed!
>I prefer Sinatra to Bennett by the same wide margin that you prefer >Bennett.
I believe most fans do, actually. Even Crosby, Presley, and the Beatles
weren't actually more-popular than FAS, throughout his vast career.
>We seem to agree completely though on Ella, Jo Stafford, Dinah Shore, >Nat King Cole,
He has a surviving younger brother, with a very similar sound, but not
quite "Nat".
>and on "not changing the melody," so 5 out of 6 ain't bad!
True enough!
> Regards,
>
> Paul
LT
> P.S. I don't care for Bobby Darrin at all.
George Burns thought the world of him. Their friendship was often
mentioned by GB in his last few books.
LT
Binkie Huckaback
> "Binkie Huckaback" <a...@cts.canberra.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:1156384776.5...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Agreed. But the man to beat is Charles Trenet.
> >
> > Binkie Huckaback, AJ
> >
> Ah, Charles Trenet.
> Is he presently in La Terre ou La Mer?
La terre, in consequence of an incurable and painful illness, after
requesting his doctors to discontinue treatment. Well into his
eighties, he'd recorded a whole album of new material just a few years
previously.
"La Mer" was requested so often in the 1950s that the BBC's "78" had to
be replaced. The lyrics are quite astonishing -- Trenet had ambitions
as a poet, and knew Max Jacob among others.
It's a wonderful tune and what a magnificent arrangement. I think it
was my introduction to the art of counter-melody. The whole recording
is a classic.
The other song of his that became popular was a bit of nonsense simply
called "Boum!" which succeeds because of its sheer high spirits and
joie de vivre.
> I believe even FR's Bobby covered La Mer . . . mercilessly !!
Concreted over might be a good way of putting it. Trenet's "Que
reste-t-il de nos amours", a bitter-sweet song about remembering lost
loves while sitting alone by a dying fire, met an even worse fate when
it resurfaced with a sugar coating as "I Give You Love".
One of his less well known songs -- "Les enfants s'ennuient le
dimanche" --is accompanied throughout by a harpsichord, and I've often
wondered if this was a "first" for a popular song.
BH (AJ)
Andrew T. Kay
> Now if you could
Oh, Lord. *There's* a mental/aural "image" that will never leave me.
Reminds me (and not entirely off-topic to the discussion of
cultural/racial affectations and the blurring of boundaries): Has
anyone else here ever heard that "homemade" recording of Billie Holiday
(only a few years before the end of the line) singing "Yiddishe Momma"
to her godson? It's extraordinarily moving. I mean, you can just
*pinpoint* the moment where it goes from being casual, offhand shtick
to being a real, heartfelt performance.
Todd K
Andrew T. Kay
> I respectfully disagree with you about Bennett being "Leagues finer"
> than Sinatra.
Me too. Nothing against Bennett, but Sinatra at his best (for the
purpose of recordings, this would be his Capitol run of the 1950s,
although isolated stuff from both before and after approaches/meets
that level) was untouchable. And anyone who doubts he could be a
probing, sensitive performer, and not just a big showbiz personality,
should check out ONLY THE LONELY or WHERE ARE YOU?, posthaste. Or, from
slightly later, two beautiful Gordon Jenkins compositions, "How Old Am
I?" and "This Is All I Ask," from their album SEPTEMBER OF MY YEARS.
> I think you may have a case with Ella, whose style was
> absolutely unique, and who seems to have created her own genre.
She was a marvel, and I probably have more discs by her than by any
other artist who sang her sort of music, but I don't know if I'd say
her style was absolutely unique. I hear a lot in her of what came
before -- Connee Boswell, the criminally neglected (these days) Ethel
Waters, Crosby, et cetera. But I hear influences in almost every pop or
jazz singer, except for the earliest recorded ones, and the only reason
I don't hear it in *them* is because we lack recorded documentation of
whatever they were hearing when they were coming up. I think it gets to
the heart of the matter just to say she (Ella) was incredibly
consistent, and the ne plus ultra in her field for "the art that
conceals art." She makes it sound so easy, so effortless; many people
never even notice that the voice is not a particularly large one
(compared to, say, Sarah Vaughan or Dinah Washington). And she had that
remarkable way of respecting the song as written while coming up with
all manner of subtle embellishments and felicities of phrasing. Her
taste was unfailing. She was not the most daring, high-wire improviser
(even her scats were often worked out beforehand), but on the least
inspired day of her life, she was never, ever one of those boring
"sheet music demonstration" singers.
The male analog to Ella -- an uncanny one, it seems to me, for they
have *all* of the same virtues of beauty and fluency and a similar
approach to improvisation -- is not Bennett or Sinatra, but Tormé. Why
Norman Granz never arranged for them to record together when he had
them both under contract (because they certainly wanted to do it) is an
enduring mystery, and a great loss to us.
Todd K
Ken Meltzer
What a marvelous post, and not just because I agree with everything you
wrote here!
An example of rmo at its best.
Thank-you.
Best,
Ken
donpaolo
than voice, I have always felt that The Chairman of the Board oozed
charisma. That alone would have accounted for his well-deserved success.
Take just a few of his greatest hit songs (A Very Good Year - When I Was
Seventeen, Set 'Em Up Joe, New York, Strangers in the Night, many, many
more); nobody, but NObody else could have equaled what Blue Eyes did with
these pieces.
DonPaolo
"F R" <espo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25536-44E...@storefull-3316.bay.webtv.net...
Ken Meltzer
donpaolo wrote:
> Truly amazing - even in the realm of pop, what we hear/fail to hear. More
> than voice, I have always felt that The Chairman of the Board oozed
> charisma. That alone would have accounted for his well-deserved success.
I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this. If so, I apologize.
But throughout his career, Sinatra collaborated with incredibly
talented arrangers and conductors. Of course this was no accident-they
wanted to work with him, and he wanted to work with them. And Sinatra
was always generous in giving credit to people like Harry James, Tommy
Dorsey, Nelson Riddle, Billy May, Gordon Jenkins and Axel Stordahl for
the great success of his career.
I recommend anyone who loves music of any kind to listen to Sinatra's
collaborations Riddle, May, Jenkins, and Stordahl in those great
Capitol recordings from the 1950s. They ooze greatness all the way
around!
As do Mel Torme's recording with Marty Paich. But that's another
story...
Best,
Ken
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Because of You
Cold, Cold Heart
Rags to Riches
Tender is the night
Once upon a time
I left my heart in San Francisco
The good life
If I ruled the world
The shadow of your smile
Song from the Oscar (Maybe September)
Smile
Emily
For once in my life
Lost in the Stars
These are just a few you may wish to compare with 'ole blue eyes'...to see
which you find more moving. Mind you...I'm very fond of Sinatra...have many
recordings of his...and some cannot be topped.
After all is said and done...it's just really apples & oranges...isn't it?
Both are/were incredible pop song stylists.
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
<tapef...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1156387889....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
tapef...@webtv.net
Jon E. Szostak, Sr. wrote:
>
> Because of You
Beautiful selection! I remember it was in the background in the film
of the same name, starring Loretta Young and (the much-admired and
lamented) Jeff Chandler.
> Cold, Cold Heart
> Rags to Riches
One of his two signature-songs, wasn't it?
> Tender is the night
> Once upon a time
Great melodies, both.
> I left my heart in San Francisco
Yep, his other sig-song.
> The good life
> If I ruled the world
> The shadow of your smile
> Song from the Oscar (Maybe September)
> Smile
> Emily
> For once in my life
> Lost in the Stars
Wonderful renditions, all.
> These are just a few you may wish to compare with 'ole blue eyes'...to see
> which you find more moving. Mind you...I'm very fond of Sinatra...have many
> recordings of his...and some cannot be topped.
>
> After all is said and done...it's just really apples & oranges...isn't it?
> Both are/were incredible pop song stylists.
And will be forever loved by their countless fans.
> Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
LT
F R
More than voice, I have always felt that The Chairman of the Board oozed
charisma. That alone would have accounted for his well-deserved success.
Take just a few of his greatest hit songs (A Very Good Year - When I Was
Seventeen, Set 'Em Up Joe, New York, Strangers in the Night, many, many
more); nobody, but NObody else could have equaled what Blue Eyes did
with these pieces.
DonPaolo
don paolo,
i was being more specific and talking about sinatra's "swing" songs with
big brassy band arrangements. the ones you cite are blues/ballds.
but you're right about what one hears. in fact, "strangers in the night"
is one of my least favorite sinatra songs.
i'd invite you to also listen to darin's versions of "a nightingale sang
in barkley square", "always" and "there's a rainbow round my shoulder",
if you are so inclined.
frank
donpaolo
95%+ on operatic tenors, so I can feel free to ask you: What the H.. IS it
with Mel Torme? True, for the most part, jazz is not my fach, but I just do
not "get" the Velvet Fog, yet some people just swoon over the guy!
DonPaolo
"Ken Meltzer" <comm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156435271....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
donpaolo
inclined, but not to the point of purchasing a CD - will check out library
one of these days!
DonPaolo
"F R" <espo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13178-44E...@storefull-3318.bay.webtv.net...
donpaolo
ricotta, or zucchini & melanzano!!!
DonPaolo
"Jon E. Szostak, Sr." <jszostaks...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:luOdnU4bYO6NSXDZ...@comcast.com...
donpaolo
40's film the other night. That man had a VOICE!!! I only wonder if he
could have trained for opera, since in one scene he was vocalising up & down
the scale & it sounded pretty darned strong to me...
DonPaolo
<tapef...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1156438005....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
tapef...@webtv.net
F R wrote:
> Truly amazing - even in the realm of pop, what we hear/fail to hear.
> More than voice, I have always felt that The Chairman of the Board oozed
> charisma. That alone would have accounted for his well-deserved success.
> Take just a few of his greatest hit songs (A Very Good Year - When I Was
> Seventeen, Set 'Em Up Joe, New York, Strangers in the Night, many, many
> more); nobody, but NObody else could have equaled what Blue Eyes did
> with these pieces.
> DonPaolo
> -------------------------
> don paolo,
> i was being more specific and talking about sinatra's "swing" songs with
> big brassy band arrangements. the ones you cite are blues/ballds.
>
> but you're right about what one hears. in fact, "strangers in the night"
> is one of my least favorite sinatra songs.
It may be that ridiculous "scooby-dooby-do" schtick that kills it!
Gimmicky, to the umpteenth degree.
Ken Meltzer
donpaolo wrote:
> Ken, we are together an incredible
> 95%+ on operatic tenors, so I can feel free to ask you: What the H.. IS it
> with Mel Torme? True, for the most part, jazz is not my fach, but I just do
> not "get" the Velvet Fog, yet some people just swoon over the guy!
Hi Paul-
I'm going to recommend two Torme CDs to you. If you don't like them,
you won't like Mel!
Both are on the Bethlehem label:
Mel Torme Sings Fred Astaire
Lulu's Back in Town
I think this contains some of the finest pop singing ever. The man was
an incredible musician, and he sings with such "cool" it will knock
your socks off!
Best,
Ken
Ken Meltzer
tapef...@webtv.net wrote:
> It may be that ridiculous "scooby-dooby-do" schtick that kills it!
> Gimmicky, to the umpteenth degree.
Leonard-
I do believe it's "Dooby-dooby-doo."
I do.
Best,
Ken (not a big "Strangers" fan, either)
tapef...@webtv.net
donpaolo wrote:
> Ken, we are together an incredible
> 95%+ on operatic tenors, so I can feel free to ask you: What the H.. IS it
> with Mel Torme? True, for the most part, jazz is not my fach, but I just >do not "get" the Velvet Fog,
Now, while Torme's singing (a sort of superior and more-mature version
of Manilow) was never among my faves, either, I'd rather hear HIM, than
the ultra-cool, ever-swinging "Armpit Fog", as some have regarded FAS.
At least Torme, if lacking the dynamic power and pzzzazzz of a Martino,
Humperdinck, Damone, or Martin (on that last, one may choose Dino
and/or Tony - both are great), he put conveyed a most Un-Sinatran
(Un-Sinatrian?) warmth of spirit and smoothness of style, without ever
seeming "flip". (though FAS was closer to that sort of sincere-sounding
delivery, in his early years).
>yet some people just swoon over the guy!
It's the warm, likeable personality (*and* that smooth, if
unelectrifying style). Mel Torme, whether he was talking, writing, or
singing, conveyed it unmistakeably every time.
> DonPaolo
LT
tapef...@webtv.net
Ken Meltzer wrote:
> tapef...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> > It may be that ridiculous "scooby-dooby-do" schtick that kills it!
> > Gimmicky, to the umpteenth degree.
>
> Leonard-
> I do believe it's "Dooby-dooby-doo."
>I do.
IIRC, it was "Scooby" in one recording, and "Dooby" in another.
Either way, same result: Bad! :)
> Best,
> Ken (not a big "Strangers" fan, either)
Actually, I rather like that song, -easily the most memorable
ingredient (except for its leading lady) of the film that introduced
it, but prefer to hear some of FAS' competition's versions ( -yes, even
the much-criticized Jerry Vale!).
donpaolo
Still, the guy sounds, to me, like Don Corleone attempting to sing - OK, I
ain't "cool" :>)))
DonPaolo
"Ken Meltzer" <comm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156449679.9...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
donpaolo
DonPaolo
"Ken Meltzer" <comm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156449970.5...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
tapef...@webtv.net
donpaolo wrote:
> Hay - someone apparently forgotten - Tony Martin!
THERE!!! Y'see how great minds think alike?? I just mentioned him in
another post a few minutes ago.
>Watched parts of an early
> 40's film the other night. That man had a VOICE!!! I only wonder if he
> could have trained for opera, since in one scene he was vocalising up & down
> the scale & it sounded pretty darned strong to me...
A gorgeous voice, both in his prime, and ever since! He was a tenor,
early on ('30s or so), and later deepened to baritone (for most of his
career), with no loss of characteristic quality.
>DonPaolo
LT,
fondly recalling TM's classic "Domino" rendition - the perfect example
of that past-era's romantic song-styles.
Ken Meltzer
tapef...@webtv.net wrote:
> IIRC, it was "Scooby" in one recording, and "Dooby" in another.
> Either way, same result: Bad! :)
There was more than one recording of that song? Oy!
Best,
Ken
tapef...@webtv.net
"Oy" is seconded!
One (at least) was a studio recording, and many others were from live
appearances, regularly (and "religiously") attended by pensioners and
fans of all ages throughout the world.
Still,
Sergio Franchi's recording remains my favorite. He ends the song in a
lingering "mezza voce", having done it at a slow tempo, with Passione
galore, as such a love song *should* be performed.
I can only guess how Lanza, had he lived some years longer, would have
sung it. But, it wasn't "beshare't" (Yiddish for "destined"), sadly.
Best,
LT
tapef...@webtv.net
donpaolo wrote:
> Wasn't it "shooby-dooby-doo"? ROFLMAO
That may have been.... either the Muppets or Sha-Na-Na. At least THAT
might've sounded marginally "cuter".
> DonPaolo
LT
clem
have heard BOTH Frank and Tony sing. Lost in the Stars, and Once upon a
time. I prefer Frank both times. Because of You, Rags to Riches - these
are songs where the Bennett rendition is imprinted in my brain, and so
there is not competition. But notice that these, for the most part are
not the "type" of song that I think Frank did better than anyone. I
identified a few of the sad songs of love and loss that I think he sang
better than anyone else. A few others - When no one cares, I'm a fool
to want you, the entire "Only the Lonely" album...
I am now going to try to find some of the recommended Bobby Darren
recordings. I am mainly familiar with "Beyond the Sea" (dislike it) and
his butchery of "That's All."
Paul
Jon E. Szostak, Sr. wrote:
clem
I liked his personality, but not his singing. To me, it seemed he never
sang a melody "straight." Some songs just don't lend themselves to
"scat" in my view...but I have friends who were crazy about him.
Paul
clem
Nightingale Sang" with Darin, (once I spelled his name correctly...see
my other posts...) The "Nightingale" was a pleasant rendition of a
song I associate with Nat King Cole. But the "Always", for me, was
awful. A kind of up-tempo arrangement of an old classic that does not
work for me at all. ("Always" was my parents' wedding song. Not the
Darin version, needless to say...!)
Paul
F R
too lazy to google. i believe "strangers in the night" hit the top of
the charts as well as "something stupid" (maybe) with daughter nancy.
frank
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
composer of pop songs (Christmas Song for one).
However...if you want to talk about a great singer in the purely Jazz
mode...then I suggest very few can hold a candle to Joe Williams. Try
listening to 'Every Day I Have the Blues', 'Alright, Okay, You Win' and 'In
the Evening (When the Sun Goes Down)' and tell me it ain't so!
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
"donpaolo" <donp...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:mqadndhsPYTilnPZ...@rcn.net...
tapef...@webtv.net
I know it's a minority-opinion, but I consider Nancy a better, more
fascinating vocalist than her Papa ever was (and SHE'D probably
disagree with me!). Just listen to her sensuous, alluring rendition of
"You Only Live Twice", from one of the greatest Bond films.
F R
mode...then I suggest very few can hold a candle to Joe Williams. Try
listening to 'Every Day I Have the Blues', 'Alright, Okay, You Win' and
'In the Evening (When the Sun Goes Down)' and tell me it ain't so!
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
good one jon. joe williams was great and a favorite of johnny carson as
well. he must have been on the tonight show a few dozen times through
the years.
frank
F R
fascinating vocalist than her Papa ever was (and SHE'D probably disagree
with me!). Just listen to her sensuous, alluring rendition of "You Only
Live Twice", from one of the greatest Bond films.
that was a really good song leonard. assuming you are familiar with her
body of work, do you know the song titled ( i think).. "some velvet
morning" (phaedra is my name)?
if you know it, could you tell me what it was about? i liked to listen
to it, but never knew what she and mr. hazelwood were singing about.
frank
donpaolo
thought of - IF I actually make a purchase, wherever would I file
Darren/Torme/Williams among Corelli, DiStefano, DelMonaco, Warren,
Christoff, Tebaldi, et. al.??? Oh, I know, somewhere around Brubeck, my one
& only straying into jazz....
DonPaolo
"Jon E. Szostak, Sr." <jszostaks...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:AcOdnSwHjqO_tHPZ...@comcast.com...
Ken Meltzer
Jon E. Szostak, Sr. wrote:
> composer of pop songs (Christmas Song for one).
Oh, well, it looks as if I'm striking out with my advocacy of Mel
Torme. I do think that (like Sinatra) his work in the 1950s, which
includes the two albums I mentioned before, is the best representation
of his art.
Now, it's confession time. If I were forced to be limited to a single
vocalist, classical or otherwise, it would be the great country singer,
George Jones. A great, great voice, and for my money, no one could put
a song across the way Jones did, and still does.
Best,
Ken
donpaolo
DonPaolo
"clem" <labi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156454567....@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
donpaolo
DonP.
<tapef...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1156458794.7...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
donpaolo
(mostly Italian Boys - some of my best pals), social issues...maybe in the
heated midst of all the other crappola, in the future we could start
discussing pop singers as an escape to an "oasis"???
DonPaolo
"clem" <labi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156453122.8...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
F R
have thought of - IF I actually make a purchase, wherever would I file
Darren/Torme/Williams among Corelli, DiStefano, DelMonaco, Warren,
Christoff, Tebaldi, et. al.??? Oh, I know, somewhere around Brubeck, my
one & only straying into jazz....
DP,
couldn't you just go to a site and listen rather than purchase an album?
oh, one more thing... it's D-A-R-I-N, not D-A-R-R-E-N. there was a james
darren around in the late 50s-early 60s who also sang. he charted a few
times and i think his biggest hit was "goodbye cruel world ( i'm off to
join the circus" sometime around 1962 or so.
as to dave brubeck.... i like all that samba, brazilian, bossa nova
stuff. i find it very smooth and melodic.
frank
and...@comcast.net
Æ S
"F R" <espo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:17253-44E...@storefull-3313.bay.webtv.net...
and...@comcast.net
> NO "apples & oranges" at all - Due grandi ragazzi italiani = provolone &
> ricotta, or zucchini & melanzano!!!
>
Tristan only gives free transfers to nice Jewish boys.
Never forget that ! !
St. André ~ dix-huit
tapef...@webtv.net
I don't know that one, - but her singing would make it interesting to
me.
Nancy Sinatra may be among the more underrated female vocalists of her
time, possibly due to the overshadowing by her dad.
> frank
LT
tapef...@webtv.net
donpaolo wrote:
> Better yet, WATCH her (30 years ago, with the boots & miniskirt, that >is).
Can't deny that was a definite PART of her appeal!
> DonP.
LT