In article <1992Apr17.153450.21...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> david j warner <dwar...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
...an all-caps, full of four-letter words and insults "defence" of rap.
Boy, I really feel inclined to check it out. I mean, David is so eloquent in his defence of it, it must be *really* good.
;-) -- MMIH ============================================= altin...@alc.com My existence led by confusion boats Mutiny from stern to bough altin...@netcom.com =================================== - Bob Dylan
In article <1992Apr20.031308.7...@athena.mit.edu> ekund...@athena.mit.edu (Enuma Olanrewaju Ogunyemi) writes: $In article <1992Apr18.072159.27...@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>, mjcar...@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter) writes: $|> In article <1992Apr17.153450.21...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> david j warner <dwar...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes: $|> >I have now lost my patience with the world.... $|> > $|> > $|> >YOU STUPID-ASS, CLOSED-MINDED, CONSTIPATED, WHITE BREADED, PEANUT-HEADED, VAN $|> >HALEN LIKIN', DIRT BIKIN', GRITS EATIN', DICK BEATIN', IGNORAMUS FATHERFUCKER! $|> $|> To hell with it; I'm so aggravated by this nonsense that I'm dissin' directly. $|> $|> As for the above, take out the "White-breaded" characterization and look in $|> a mirror - you should see your self in here as well. $|> $|> >YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT FROM JACK SWING ABOUT RAP MUSIC OR HIP HOP CULTURE, $|> $|> And, it's clear you don't know much of hip hop either. You're fontin', so $|> either get with it or step off. $|> $|> > IF RAP WAS HERE TODAY GONE TOMORROW, WE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT $|> >IT. YOU SAY YOU SOUND JUST LIKE YOUR FATHER, SO I GUESS IGNORANCE RUNS IN THE $|> >FAMILY. $|> $|> If hip hop is considered an extended family, then you've certainly $|> established the same of the hip hop family as you claim of this guy's $|> ignorance. Man, the media is on point about rap and its affect of young $|> minds (add a suitable dose of sarcasm and disgust). $|> $|> $|> $|> > I'D TAKE ALL YOUR ASSES AND HANG 'EM OUT TO DRY IN THIS LIFE AND THE $|> > NEXT, AND I DON'T RAISE FISTS. I RAISE CONSCIOUSNESS! $|> $|> Bull shit! Who are you trying to fool but yourself? You sure as hell ain't $|> getting this by me. Besides, the statement is contradictory. $|> $|> $|> > IF ANYTHING IS HERE TODAY AND GONE TOMORROW, IT'S YOU AND YOUR IGNORANCE!!!! $|> > JUST LIKE YOUR PAPA BEFORE YOU! AND YOU'LL BE PROVEN WRONG, TOO!!!!!!!!!!!! $|> $|> You know, there's this little word known as "hypocrisy." I'm sure you've $|> dissed and dismissed the likes of Vanilla Ice and Hammer; but, I infer from $|> this comment that you think yourself above criticism and being wrong. In $|> short, you act so much the sell-out sucker that it's difficult to discern $|> you from the sell-outs. $|> $|> There's so much talk of fake "rap" artists and concern over the industry's $|> willingness to sell out the hip hop culture, and we all think we're all $|> smart MF's when we dis those who sleep rap. Yet, we turn around and act as $|> if we're the vultures. I'm tired of arguing with ignorant folx who criticise $|> rap by arguing nonsense, only to have to confront the fact that some rap $|> "fans" prescribe to the very mentality the critics claim we have. $|> $|> And, then, c...@cheshire.oxy.edu (Cleopatra) asks, in reference to Warner's $|> commentary: $|> $|> Is all this hostility really necessary? $|> $|> No, this hostility isn't even a part of the hip hop culture. Don't believe $|> the hype, whether it's perpetrated by the media or rap "fans" who say $|> one thing and act differently. Preach on, Cleopatra, I got your back. $|> $|> Mc $|> $|> ============== $|> $|> This is KRS-1 from the mighty Boogie Down Productions, and of course $|> there is only one family - and that's the human family. Beyond that, $|> there is the cultural family. I'm black, so that makes me a part of the $|> African family. Rise up, and understand who you are. $|> $|> - KRS-One $|> Family Gotta Get Busy $|> _Civilization Versus Technology_ $ $ $ $ I said I wouldn't point unnecessary fingers but now someone dunnit me $gwan bank them to the max 'pon this here one! There was no need to jump on the $punk (original sender) so hard unless you yourself are a punk. But anyway... $Nuff said - so things a go. Step off the $die-hard-gangsta-type-sucker-slaying-Uncle-Sam-hip-hop-police-playing-role . $ $ Strangely ( i'm sure some of you unnerstand why) what I just said doesn't $apply to Mc's post or mine. $ $I'm out - simplistic $ $Selector $ $ $>"Wha you a deal with rude boy?" $" Life, love, peace and equality" $>"That all?" $"Nuh!!! *Excess amount of badness, if necessary*!!!" $> "Better know!!!" $ $ $ Uh but, $ $"Got no time to be hanging out with Humanists!" $ - Professor X
I _hate_ motherf&$#^@* that include the ENTIRE FUCKING ARTICLE when responding to only a few lines.
Malcolm Diallo Moore #----o___ooo___oo-oo-oo\ #----o Computer Information Services .___| |_| `'''''''| .___| |_| System Co-Administrator | The House Train | | The University of Minnesota, Twin Cities #| r--------------p |##| r--- mmoore@[ux.acs | donald.cs].umn.edu____`O#O#O\--------------/O#O#O'__`O#O#O\---
In article <1992Apr18.190457.7...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> dwar...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (david j warner) writes: $ $No, it wasn't necessary, and as the author of the original post, I apologize $for it.
Aww no problem, G...the only problem I had with it was the fact that you included "Grits eatin'" in your dis. To be honest, I was offended by that remark, and as a proud grits eater, respectfully request that you retract that part of your flame as an apology to grits eaters nationwide.
Peace and...and...Alber's Quick Grits, of course.
Malcolm Diallo Moore #----o___ooo___oo-oo-oo\ #----o Computer Information Services .___| |_| `'''''''| .___| |_| System Co-Administrator | The House Train | | The University of Minnesota, Twin Cities #| r--------------p |##| r--- mmoore@[ux.acs | donald.cs].umn.edu____`O#O#O\--------------/O#O#O'__`O#O#O\---
In article <balaji.703656...@yorku.ca> bal...@nexus.yorku.ca (V. Balaji) writes: >Good grief. I check this group out after a month and this stupid thread >is still going. Any ideas on what longevity on usenet is a function of?
A really long-lived thread in a music newsgroup should have these properties:
1 Flame-inducing subject (should contain "overrated," "sucks," "not music") 2 Easy to followup quickly with little thought or effort required 3 Opportunities to broadcast personal musical value judgements ("10 best/worst") 4 Has meta-discussion or meta-meta-discussion potential 5 Contains a request for lyrics 6 Proposes music newsgroup creation and/or reorganization 7 Contain one or more obvious erors to which everyone can post corrections 8 Refers to artist/band with large "cult" (Rush, Phish, Marillion, Floyd, etc.)
-- Larry Spence la...@csccat.cs.com ...!{uunet|texsun|cs.utexas.edu|decwrl|decvax}!csccat!larry
Although rap and punk consistantly push forth an attitude towards other people, punk music at least has a melody and intricate rhythms. All punk songs requir In article <5...@kielo.uta.fi>, mem...@uta.fi (Markku Sorto) says:
>In article <1992Apr8.142357.9...@wheaton.wheaton.edu>, dlede...@wheaton.edu >(Daniel Lane Edelen) writes: >> Seriously, once you've heard one Rap album you've basically heard them all. >> Rap also suffers from the "any couple of guys with an attitude can record an >> album of rantings about this and that" syndrome. Needless to say, here >today, >> gone tomorrow....
>> If someone wishes to prove to me that Rap is real music then please show me >> where the majority of Rap songs have a transcriptable melody line.
>Well I don't understand rap music either, but that's not a reason to say it's >crap. Attitude of "any couple of guys with an attitude can record an album of >rantings about this and that" is no criteria of categorising a style of music >as non-important and forgettable. Remember punk (and who doesn't?)! Punk was >done with same kind of attitude (ie no skill, just attitude) and it still >today affects many important bands today. Besides many punk bands evoluted >into >greatness (Joy Division, The Cure, The Banshees, Clash etc.). They started >with no skill and made better music than many 'ultratalented' bands of musical >history (Yes, Genesis etc. AAAAAARGGGHHH! Now I've done it! I'll be flamed to >death! :) ).
>Although RAP and Punk music both illustrate how screwed up the world is, Punk
at least has a melody and harmony you can follow. Punk music requires knowledge of playing chords on the guitar and harmony on the bass guitar. Al
l rap has is one booming beat and once in a while some funny sirens in the back ground. Whenever I eat in the school cafeteria, my plate and food seem to boun ce off my table to the rhythmic booming of the DJ's records. Don't get me wron g, I'm not saying that RAP doesn't say how screwed up society is. However, the RAP you see on MTV and hear on the radio was produced by record companies. Th ese record companies would take talented suburban Californian Black people
and dress them up like gangsters. This sold a lot of records and created a lot of gangbanger fades we see today. Punk is pure underground, raw, in your face rebellion!! When you hear a Punk song, you hear the truth about how people re ally feel about all the crap that is happening in the world today. A punker mi ght write a song about how two people get drunk and beat each other up, however , the symbolism behind the song might relate to how two countires are always at war with each other. Punk music in a way is a lot like folk, except it grabs harder by the scrotum. RAP is more like disco in the 70's, it will probably di e out sooner or later. Or it might turn into something more like house music w hich is disco of the 90's.... Adam Monarch UIC
In <92112.004623U56...@uicvm.uic.edu> <U56...@uicvm.uic.edu> writes: >Although RAP and Punk music both illustrate how screwed up the world is, Punk >at least has a melody and harmony you can follow. Punk music requires > knowledge of playing chords on the guitar and harmony on the bass guitar. Al >l rap has is one booming beat and once in a while some funny sirens in the back >ground.
This is a bit of a generalization. Have you heard PM Dawn or Heavy D? Calling their backbeat "one booming beat and once in a while some funny sirens" is nuts. That doesn't even come close. Sure... some rap is all rap and no music. But a lot of what is consider to be rap/hip-hop has planty of musical activity going on.
>Whenever I eat in the school cafeteria, my plate and food seem to boun >ce off my table to the rhythmic booming of the DJ's records. Don't get me wron >g, I'm not saying that RAP doesn't say how screwed up society is. However, the > RAP you see on MTV and hear on the radio was produced by record companies. Th >ese record companies would take talented suburban Californian Black people >and dress them up like gangsters. This sold a lot of records and created a lot > of gangbanger fades we see today.
Hey, sure, rap has its sell-outs (ie: Vanilla Wafer and McHammer) but most groups aren't posers and they aren't from the suburbs. If you think the whole rap movement is a bunch of record company stooges you aren't paying attention. a lot of rap comes out on labels that had to be started up when 'mainstream' companies wouldn't produce rap acts. (ie: Def Jam)
>Punk is pure underground, raw, in your face > rebellion!! When you hear a Punk song, you hear the truth about how people re >ally feel about all the crap that is happening in the world today. A punker mi >ght write a song about how two people get drunk and beat each other up, however >, the symbolism behind the song might relate to how two countires are always at > war with each other. Punk music in a way is a lot like folk, except it grabs >harder by the scrotum.
I think a lot of this can be said about rap too. When I go down to New York I get to hear the acts that aren't making millions and putting out albums. The underground nature of rap is still there and always will be. Punk and rap are urban folk music I suppose (well, maybe not). Down to earth is a fair description for both. The rap (and punk) groups that'make it' either stay the same and keep the faith or lose their old fans and become just another sell-out rock/pop act.
>RAP is more like disco in the 70's, it will probably di >e out sooner or later. Or it might turn into something more like house music w >hich is disco of the 90's....
Hey! Raising the spectre of disco is below the belt! :-)
I don't see rap going anywhere. It gets stronger every year. There was a time when it started to go out and then Run DMC and acts like that came along and kept it alive. Now it is too late.
-Thumper -- geo...@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business "An ancestor of mine maintained that if you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Spock, "STVI:TUC", Stardate 9523.8
> YOU STUPID-ASS, CLOSED-MINDED, CONSTIPATED, WHITE BREADED, PEANUT-HEADED, VAN > HALEN LIKIN', DIRT BIKIN', GRITS EATIN', DICK BEATIN', IGNORAMUS FATHERFUCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT FROM JACK SWING ABOUT RAP MUSIC OR HIP HOP CULTURE, > [etc...]
I was floored when I bumped into this guy in the computer lab last month and he was totally wailing on rap music...calling it (c)rap music, etc...saying that rappers have no talent...and all they do is steal other peoples' "good" songs change the lyrics and add a drum machine beat.
He almost got physically violent when I argued with him about it!!!!!
It's been YEARS since I met someone with this kindof attitude...I guess some people just never attempt to understand others. Then again, Vanilla Ice and the like don't help rap's image either...but hey, that's the way it goes.
--Dennis
also known as... | HELLO, I'm a signature virus! kramb...@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu | Join in the fun Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum. | and copy me into yours!
> In article <1992Apr20.031308.7...@athena.mit.edu> ekund...@athena.mit.edu (Enuma Olanrewaju Ogunyemi) writes: > $In article <1992Apr18.072159.27...@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>, mjcar...@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter) writes: > $|> In article <1992Apr17.153450.21...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> david j warner <dwar...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes: > $|> >I have now lost my patience with the world.... > $|> > > $|> > > $|> >YOU STUPID-ASS, CLOSED-MINDED, CONSTIPATED, WHITE BREADED, PEANUT-HEADED, VAN > $|> >HALEN LIKIN', DIRT BIKIN', GRITS EATIN', DICK BEATIN', IGNORAMUS FATHERFUCKER! > $|> > $|> To hell with it; I'm so aggravated by this nonsense that I'm dissin' directly. > $|> > $|> As for the above, take out the "White-breaded" characterization and look in > $|> a mirror - you should see your self in here as well. > $|> > $|> >YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT FROM JACK SWING ABOUT RAP MUSIC OR HIP HOP CULTURE, > $|> > $|> And, it's clear you don't know much of hip hop either. You're fontin', so > $|> either get with it or step off. > $|> > $|> > IF RAP WAS HERE TODAY GONE TOMORROW, WE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT > $|> >IT. YOU SAY YOU SOUND JUST LIKE YOUR FATHER, SO I GUESS IGNORANCE RUNS IN THE > $|> >FAMILY. > $|> > $|> If hip hop is considered an extended family, then you've certainly > $|> established the same of the hip hop family as you claim of this guy's > $|> ignorance. Man, the media is on point about rap and its affect of young > $|> minds (add a suitable dose of sarcasm and disgust). > $|> > $|> > $|> > $|> > I'D TAKE ALL YOUR ASSES AND HANG 'EM OUT TO DRY IN THIS LIFE AND THE > $|> > NEXT, AND I DON'T RAISE FISTS. I RAISE CONSCIOUSNESS! > $|> > $|> Bull shit! Who are you trying to fool but yourself? You sure as hell ain't > $|> getting this by me. Besides, the statement is contradictory. > $|> > $|> > $|> > IF ANYTHING IS HERE TODAY AND GONE TOMORROW, IT'S YOU AND YOUR IGNORANCE!!!! > $|> > JUST LIKE YOUR PAPA BEFORE YOU! AND YOU'LL BE PROVEN WRONG, TOO!!!!!!!!!!!! > $|> > $|> You know, there's this little word known as "hypocrisy." I'm sure you've > $|> dissed and dismissed the likes of Vanilla Ice and Hammer; but, I infer from > $|> this comment that you think yourself above criticism and being wrong. In > $|> short, you act so much the sell-out sucker that it's difficult to discern > $|> you from the sell-outs. > $|> > $|> There's so much talk of fake "rap" artists and concern over the industry's > $|> willingness to sell out the hip hop culture, and we all think we're all > $|> smart MF's when we dis those who sleep rap. Yet, we turn around and act as > $|> if we're the vultures. I'm tired of arguing with ignorant folx who criticise > $|> rap by arguing nonsense, only to have to confront the fact that some rap > $|> "fans" prescribe to the very mentality the critics claim we have. > $|> > $|> And, then, c...@cheshire.oxy.edu (Cleopatra) asks, in reference to Warner's > $|> commentary: > $|> > $|> Is all this hostility really necessary? > $|> > $|> No, this hostility isn't even a part of the hip hop culture. Don't believe > $|> the hype, whether it's perpetrated by the media or rap "fans" who say > $|> one thing and act differently. Preach on, Cleopatra, I got your back. > $|> > $|> Mc > $|> > $|> ============== > $|> > $|> This is KRS-1 from the mighty Boogie Down Productions, and of course > $|> there is only one family - and that's the human family. Beyond that, > $|> there is the cultural family. I'm black, so that makes me a part of the > $|> African family. Rise up, and understand who you are. > $|> > $|> - KRS-One > $|> Family Gotta Get Busy > $|> _Civilization Versus Technology_ > $ > $ > $ > $ I said I wouldn't point unnecessary fingers but now someone dunnit me > $gwan bank them to the max 'pon this here one! There was no need to jump on the > $punk (original sender) so hard unless you yourself are a punk. But anyway... > $Nuff said - so things a go. Step off the > $die-hard-gangsta-type-sucker-slaying-Uncle-Sam-hip-hop-police-playing-role . > $ > $ Strangely ( i'm sure some of you unnerstand why) what I just said doesn't > $apply to Mc's post or mine. > $ > $I'm out - simplistic > $ > $Selector > $ > $ > $>"Wha you a deal with rude boy?" > $" Life, love, peace and equality" > $>"That all?" > $"Nuh!!! *Excess amount of badness, if necessary*!!!" > $> "Better know!!!" > $ > $ > $ Uh but, > $ > $"Got no time to be hanging out with Humanists!" > $ - Professor X
> I _hate_ motherf&$#^@* that include the ENTIRE FUCKING ARTICLE when > responding to only a few lines.
> Malcolm Diallo Moore #----o___ooo___oo-oo-oo\ #----o > Computer Information Services .___| |_| `'''''''| .___| |_| > System Co-Administrator | The House Train | | The > University of Minnesota, Twin Cities #| r--------------p |##| r--- > mmoore@[ux.acs | donald.cs].umn.edu____`O#O#O\--------------/O#O#O'__`O#O#O\---
Me too! I think that is sooooooooooo lame!!!
--Dennis
also known as... | HELLO, I'm a signature virus! kramb...@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu | Join in the fun Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum. | and copy me into yours!
Dude, get that formatting in step--it's impossible to read you without getting a headache. In any case, I beg to differ. Of course, the popularized pseudo hip-hop you hear on TV is watered down crap. So what else is new? What on eMpTyV isn't? But to jump from there to punk is Real Underground(tm) and Rap isn't is, well, ill-advised.
In fact, your very premise is internally inconsistent: you use a mainstream pop forum to determine whether something is underground. You can't do that, by definition.
Meanwhile, I'm going to pump some Ten Tray and Yomo and Maulkie. -- Peace. "Mars is essentially in the same orbit... somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe." -- Vice President Dan Quayle -\--/- Don't just adopt opinions | \/ | Yes, it is I, develop them. | /\ | The Homeboy from hell -/--\-
In article <1992Apr21.124937.10...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> cpbueh...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:
>I was floored when I bumped into this guy in the computer lab last month and he >was totally wailing on rap music...calling it (c)rap music, etc...saying that >rappers have no talent...and all they do is steal other peoples' "good" songs >change the lyrics and add a drum machine beat.
>He almost got physically violent when I argued with him about it!!!!!
And, this is precisely what I'm saying. The other folx who dis rap sometimes act sub-human, and sometimes their contempt for humanity manifests itself in raising a hand against another. Now, to react in the same is an admission that you accept the other's standards of "civilization"; and, if you're going to do that, then you might as well say to hell with your own self-respect and admit that your views have no value. Think Malcolm X, Stephen Biko, Ghandi, etc.
In article <1992Apr20.210327.12...@ux.acs.umn.edu> mmo...@ux.acs.umn.edu ("None of ya Bizness") writes:
>I _hate_ motherf&$#^@* that include the ENTIRE FUCKING ARTICLE when >responding to only a few lines.
After, of course, (had to be a joke), ~105 or so lines of included text.
...or is this like the C-program thing? :-)
-- Kenneth R. Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142 +1 617 621 7306 ke...@osf.osf.org OSF doesn't make me say any of the above.
In article <1992Apr21.220809.2...@osf.org> ke...@juniorx.osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
$In article <1992Apr20.210327.12...@ux.acs.umn.edu> mmo...@ux.acs.umn.edu $("None of ya Bizness") writes: $>I _hate_ motherf&$#^@* that include the ENTIRE FUCKING ARTICLE when $>responding to only a few lines. $ $After, of course, (had to be a joke), ~105 or so lines of included text. $ $...or is this like the C-program thing? :-)
Yeah yeah...
Malcolm Diallo Moore #----o___ooo___oo-oo-oo\ #----o Computer Information Services .___| |_| `'''''''| .___| |_| System Co-Administrator | The House Train | | The University of Minnesota, Twin Cities #| r--------------p |##| r--- mmoore@[ux.acs | donald.cs].umn.edu____`O#O#O\--------------/O#O#O'__`O#O#O\---
In article <ISBELL.92Apr21141...@pop-tarts.ai.mit.edu> isb...@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell) writes:
>Dude, get that formatting in step--it's impossible to read you without >getting a headache.
Sentences beginning with Dude give me a headache.
>Meanwhile, I'm going to pump some Ten Tray and Yomo and Maulkie.
I'll say one thing about rap music. They make interesting use of the English language. Pump up the music. Pump up the Jam. How does one pump up the jam, and for that matter why would anyone want to. Yomo and Maulkie? Sounds like a name for a sitcom.
-- +========================================================================== ===+ | John Fereira Al Bundy for President | jo...@auspex.com "He's as good as the next guy" | +========================================================================== ===+
In article <1992Apr21.221805.2...@ux.acs.umn.edu> mmo...@ux.acs.umn.edu ("None of ya Bizness") writes: |In article <1992Apr21.220809.2...@osf.org> ke...@juniorx.osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes: |$In article <1992Apr20.210327.12...@ux.acs.umn.edu> mmo...@ux.acs.umn.edu |$("None of ya Bizness") writes: |$>I _hate_ motherf&$#^@* that include the ENTIRE FUCKING ARTICLE when |$>responding to only a few lines. |$ |$After, of course, (had to be a joke), ~105 or so lines of included text. |$ |$...or is this like the C-program thing? :-) | |Yeah yeah...
Yeah, I wish I had a optimizing netnews compiler.
-- +========================================================================== ===+ | John Fereira Al Bundy for President | jo...@auspex.com "He's as good as the next guy" | +========================================================================== ===+
>I _hate_ motherf&$#^@* that include the ENTIRE FUCKING ARTICLE when >responding to only a few lines.
You hate your( motherf&$#^ing)self?
Nuh, you were just "proving a point."
Right?
Selector DuduBlack.
PS. A "1200" is the ultimate DJ instrument. A "1210" is the same thing in Black marketed first to the BRits ( no matter what Doug Nice says about them tracking better) "1200" = Technics 1200 MKII (Direct Drive, quartz-phased turntables)
> In <92112.004623U56...@uicvm.uic.edu> <U56...@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>Although RAP and Punk music both illustrate how screwed up the world is, Punk >>at least has a melody and harmony you can follow. Punk music requires >> knowledge of playing chords on the guitar and harmony on the bass guitar. Al >>l rap has is one booming beat and once in a while some funny sirens in the back >>ground.
> This is a bit of a generalization. Have you heard PM Dawn or Heavy D? > Calling their backbeat "one booming beat and once in a while some funny > sirens" is nuts. That doesn't even come close. > Sure... some rap is all rap and no music. But a lot of what is consider to > be rap/hip-hop has planty of musical activity going on.
>>Whenever I eat in the school cafeteria, my plate and food seem to boun >>ce off my table to the rhythmic booming of the DJ's records. Don't get me wron >>g, I'm not saying that RAP doesn't say how screwed up society is. However, the >> RAP you see on MTV and hear on the radio was produced by record companies. Th >>ese record companies would take talented suburban Californian Black people >>and dress them up like gangsters. This sold a lot of records and created a lot >> of gangbanger fades we see today.
> Hey, sure, rap has its sell-outs (ie: Vanilla Wafer and McHammer) but most > groups aren't posers and they aren't from the suburbs. If you think the > whole rap movement is a bunch of record company stooges you aren't paying > attention. a lot of rap comes out on labels that had to be started up when > 'mainstream' companies wouldn't produce rap acts. (ie: Def Jam)
>>Punk is pure underground, raw, in your face >> rebellion!! When you hear a Punk song, you hear the truth about how people re >>ally feel about all the crap that is happening in the world today. A punker mi >>ght write a song about how two people get drunk and beat each other up, however >>, the symbolism behind the song might relate to how two countires are always at >> war with each other. Punk music in a way is a lot like folk, except it grabs >>harder by the scrotum.
> I think a lot of this can be said about rap too. > When I go down to New York I get to hear the acts that aren't making > millions and putting out albums. The underground nature of rap is still > there and always will be. > Punk and rap are urban folk music I suppose (well, maybe not). Down to > earth is a fair description for both. The rap (and punk) groups that'make > it' either stay the same and keep the faith or lose their old fans and > become just another sell-out rock/pop act.
>>RAP is more like disco in the 70's, it will probably di >>e out sooner or later. Or it might turn into something more like house music w >>hich is disco of the 90's....
> Hey! Raising the spectre of disco is below the belt! :-)
> I don't see rap going anywhere. It gets stronger every year. There was a > time when it started to go out and then Run DMC and acts like that came > along and kept it alive. Now it is too late.
> -Thumper > -- > geo...@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business > "An ancestor of mine maintained that if you eliminate the impossible, > whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." > -Spock, "STVI:TUC", Stardate 9523.8
-- -
I do not think that PM DAWN and HEAVY D are "rap", it is more dance...You can't dance to "real rap"...... Anyways, this discussion does not belong in this net....take it to alt.rap or elsewhere... Mel
In article <1992Apr21.21572...@woods.ulowell.edu> gmn...@woods.ulowell.edu quotes all sixty-odd lines of Geoff Bronner's article, signature included, just to add this "gem":
>I do not think that PM DAWN and HEAVY D are "rap", it is more dance...You can't >dance to "real rap"......
A logical tour de force, to be sure: You can't dance to rap; how do I know? If you can dance to it, it ain't rap. All those people that *think* they can dance to rap aren't; all those songs with rapping aren't. Sheesh. Why are people always so intent on defining music they don't like out of existence? Hip-hop, like rock'n'roll, isn't really something that lends itself to necessary and sufficient conditions.
>Anyways, this discussion does not belong in this net....take it to alt.rap or >elsewhere...
You posted this to alt.rap, bonehead, as did Geoff. If you can't figure out how to edit (or even read, apparently) your own newsgroups line, you have no business telling other people to take it elsewhere. A true son of alt.music.stupid fer sher. I salute you.
-- Rod Johnson * r...@caen.engin.umich.edu * (313) 764-3103
"Sand will not make you a very thrilling overcoat" --Kenneth Koch
>>I was floored when I bumped into this guy in the computer lab last month and he >>was totally wailing on rap music...calling it (c)rap music, etc...saying that >>rappers have no talent...and all they do is steal other peoples' "good" songs >>change the lyrics and add a drum machine beat.
>>He almost got physically violent when I argued with him about it!!!!!
>And, this is precisely what I'm saying. The other folx who dis rap sometimes >act sub-human, and sometimes their contempt for humanity manifests itself >in raising a hand against another. Now, to react in the same is an admission >that you accept the other's standards of "civilization"; and, if you're going >to do that, then you might as well say to hell with your own self-respect >and admit that your views have no value. Think Malcolm X, Stephen Biko, >Ghandi, etc.
>Mc
I just want to add to this. I am a white guy from Texas, I like all types of music, but take a special interest in rap. I am from D-Town (Dallas), but what is sad is that some people is know (primarily white) are always talking SHIT about rap. I've found that the best solution to this problem is to ignore them, unless they really get into your face (literally). These people only fuck with us about rap so the can get a rise out of us. Why give them the satisfaction. Let them talk their shit, we can just sit back and see how ignorent they really are. I don't know about all of yall, but being from D-Town, I learned to just not give a fuck about what other people think about you or the music you listen to. There is nothing wrong with being yourself. If someone tells you that what you like is shit, just tell tell them this is me, not you.
Hasta Luego, Peace, Adios, See ya, and I'm outta here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In article <23APR199212250...@zeus.tamu.edu> tbn0...@zeus.tamu.edu (NORTH, TOM-C) writes: >I just want to add to this. I am a white guy from Texas, I like all types of >music, but take a special interest in rap. I am from D-Town (Dallas), but what >is sad is that some people is know (primarily white) are always talking SHIT >about rap. I've found that the best solution to this problem is to ignore them, >unless they really get into your face (literally). These people only fuck with >us about rap so the can get a rise out of us. Why give them the satisfaction. >Let them talk their shit, we can just sit back and see how ignorent they really >are. I don't know about all of yall, but being from D-Town, I learned to just >not give a fuck about what other people think about you or the music you listen >to.
History repeats itself. The same thing happened in the 50s when rock was becoming popular. There were people who'd become so used to the big band sound that they were unwilling to expand their horizons beyond what they felt comfortable with. The result was that big band music died and rock took its place.
Some people hate change and develop a fear for anything that appears different. Because they fear change they develop a dislike for anything that represents change. You really can't expect then to look at it from an objective point of view because it is not in their nature to try to understand anything new or different. You can see the results in the current death of rock-n-roll.
Just be thankful that you're the type of person who has an open mind. It is the only way that you'll be progressive and appreciate the current trends in music and art. Let the conservatives wither away with their dying rock bands.
In article <kve23sINN...@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> dud...@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes: > In article <23APR199212250...@zeus.tamu.edu> tbn0...@zeus.tamu.edu (NORTH, TOM-C) writes: > >I just want to add to this. I am a white guy from Texas, I like all types of > >music, but take a special interest in rap. I am from D-Town (Dallas), but what > >is sad is that some people is know (primarily white) are always talking SHIT > >about rap. I've found that the best solution to this problem is to ignore them, > >unless they really get into your face (literally). These people only fuck with > >us about rap so the can get a rise out of us. Why give them the satisfaction. > >Let them talk their shit, we can just sit back and see how ignorent they really > >are. I don't know about all of yall, but being from D-Town, I learned to just > >not give a fuck about what other people think about you or the music you listen > >to.
> History repeats itself. The same thing happened in the 50s when rock was > becoming popular. There were people who'd become so used to the big band > sound that they were unwilling to expand their horizons beyond what they > felt comfortable with. The result was that big band music died and rock > took its place. > Some people hate change and develop a fear for anything that appears > different. > Because they fear change they develop a dislike for anything that represents > change. You really can't expect then to look at it from an objective point > of view because it is not in their nature to try to understand anything new > or different. You can see the results in the current death of rock-n-roll. > Just be thankful that you're the type of person who has an open mind. It is > the only way that you'll be progressive and appreciate the current trends in > music and art. Let the conservatives wither away with their dying > rock bands. > Dudley
This has nothing to do with having an open mind or not. It has everything to do with the complete lack of talent required to be a rap *artist*. Anybody with a voice can be a rap *artist?*. rap is talked, not sung. The music behind the voice is the same synthesized blah beat for every single rap. Just how much talent does it take to produce this kind of sound, if anybody with a voice can do it? The only talent involved is in talking some label into mass producing this crap, and then getting the public to swallow it. Fortunately, there are still some of us around who see thru the scam.
You certainly show your objectiveness of those who dissent from *your* opinion, don't you? Rock and roll is still alive and well. Talk to me in 20 years, when rap is but a distant faded memory, like disco.
While some of the current rock and roll is pure shit, there's alot that isn't. That, like this discussion about rap, is purely a matter of opinion. I listen to and very much like alot of different music, going from rock, to blues, to jazz, to reggae, to classical, to country and western. I have CD, LP and tape collections in all those categories except classical and reggae. I do not like opera and I don't consider rap as a musical art form. If you wish to believe that I have a closed mind because my opinion of rap differs from yours, what does that say about the openness of your mind? In any case, you have the right to believe what you want. I have the same right.
dud...@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes: >History repeats itself. The same thing happened in the 50s when rock was >becoming popular. There were people who'd become so used to the big band >sound that they were unwilling to expand their horizons beyond what they >felt comfortable with. The result was that big band music died and rock >took its place.
Big band music didn't die at all. In fact, I've heard two new releases in that format that are as innovative and adventurous as any music I've heard in the past five years.
Rock indeed exploded in popularity in a way which eclipsed virtually all the other popular music of the day, but what kinds of conclusions do you draw from that fact? That rock was superior? That those other genres were played out?
>Some people hate change and develop a fear for anything that appears >different.
Indeed. I find that lots of younger people are unwilling to explore genres other than the ones they grew up with.
>Because they fear change they develop a dislike for anything that represents >change. You really can't expect then to look at it from an objective point >of view because it is not in their nature to try to understand anything new >or different. You can see the results in the current death of rock-n-roll.
Again, why do you say that rock is dying? Because it's declining in popularity? There might be lots of reasons for that, but I don't see why it would have anything to do with the fans of that genre having trouble understanding some other form of music.
There's no doubt that lots of rockheads are ossified in their attitudes towards new music, but the answer to them isn't that they're not looking forward, but that they're not looking *elsewhere*.
rineh...@aramis.rutgers.edu (Mark J. Rinehart) writes:
>This has nothing to do with having an open mind or not. It has >everything to do with the complete lack of talent required to be a rap >*artist*. Anybody with a voice can be a rap *artist?*. rap is talked, >not sung.
What's singing? Is it required to make music?
How about *sprechstimme*? Is that "talked", too? Is Pierrot Lunaire something anyone can perform?
>The music behind the voice is the same synthesized blah beat >for every single rap.
Demonstrably false.
>Just how much talent does it take to produce this kind of sound [...]
A lot, something that's evidenced by the wide variation in quality between the best and the worst of the genre.
>I do not like opera and I don't consider rap as a musical art form. >If you wish to believe that I have a closed mind because my opinion of >rap differs from yours, what does that say about the openness of your mind?
There's quite a difference between having a low opinion of a genre and claiming that it's not an art form and that all it requires is the power of speech. In the former case you might say something like, "I don't care for rap." In the latter you'd have to have some rather restrictive ideas about what constitutes art as well as some experience in making some rap recordings yourself.
I had a band when I was 12 years old. We banged out the two or three chords we thought we knew and screamed a bit. By the same kind of account you give of rap, we were making rock-n-roll. And if *we* could do it then, believe me, *anyone* could.
some people...are always talking SHIT about rap. I've found that the best solution is to ignore them...These people only fuck with us about rap so the[y] can get a rise out of us. Why give them the satisfaction. Let them talk their shit, we can just sit back and see how ignorant they really are.
Garth says:
WORD. BTW, is Tom-C your name or a moniker? (Aggie in the house)
> I had a band when I was 12 years old. We banged out the two or three > chords we thought we knew and screamed a bit. By the same kind of account > you give of rap, we were making rock-n-roll. And if *we* could do it > then, believe me, *anyone* could.
That was the Maltones, right? After you dropped out they stayed together, and right out of high school starting gigging up and down the East Coast. The only recorded thing I've seen is the A-side of their single "Extra! Extra!" on one of the later Pebbles volumes. The liner notes suggest there isn't even a B-side ("...the Maltones fortunes were on the way down by the time the single was recorded, and they could only afford enough studio time to cut this one track..."), but I've never seen the original vinyl, so I can't verify that.
Are you in touch with any of them anymore? Know what they're up to? And was that pronounced "Mall-tones", "Mal-tones" or "Malt-ones"? -- "Missing a kick / at the ice box door / It closed anyway." --Jack Kerouac CSNET: e...@almaden.ibm.com / UUNET: ...!uunet!almaden.ibm.com!ebm
In article <1...@rufus.UUCP> e...@corvair.almaden.ibm.com (Eli Messinger) writes: >Are you in touch with any of them anymore? Know what they're up to? And was >that pronounced "Mall-tones", "Mal-tones" or "Malt-ones"?
It's pronounced Shar-day. -- +========================================================================== ===+ | John Fereira Al Bundy for President | jo...@auspex.com "He's as good as the next guy" | +========================================================================== ===+
|
