Students who don't practice
markfromsf
starting to get on my nerves; I finish up a lesson with student who
seems intense and focused about mastering a particular assignment,
only to see the same student a week later telling me that he "didn' t
have a chance to practice this past week". I seem to be getting a lot
of this lately. I tend to expect this with a few of the older (25 and
up) students, but it now seems to becoming the rule rather than the
exception, across all age groups. The oddest thing is that I rarely
lose students, most of them rarely miss a lesson; many of them even
show up early. I've tried explaining that although it's ultimately up
to them, a lack of consistent practice is much like a boat slowly
taking on water, and that not finding time to maintain skills or
aquire new ones negates the progress that you already worked so hard
to obtain. I've actually dropped students, only to have them calling
a month later asking to be accepted back, only to go though the same
thing again shortly thereafter. Has anyone out there told or been
told one profound thing that made a difference? I really go the
extra mile for these people, but there's only so much you can do for
the cost of a lesson. I can use some fresh ideas. I'd rather not
drop any of them.
Peter H.M. Brooks
"markfromsf" <markf...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:284f6ebd.03051...@posting.google.com...
a little.
Sometimes it is just that I have too much on in the day and end up too tired
to even think of doing things that I wish to do - that isn't often,
fortunately, and not the main reason.
Sometimes a practice goes really well and fills me with delight - I wish it
would go as well in the next class, but it often doesn't! So, the next day,
after an excellent practice, if somebody suggests going to see a film at the
time when it was to be I am sometimes tempted and thus drop a day.
Other times it is the other way around. It just doesn't want to work for
me - my lips don't work, there seems no air in my lungs and the process is
just dispiriting. I am not sure quite why - maybe not enough practice!
Underlying it all is, I think, a contradiction. I know that practice will
speed up progress, but, when progress is slow the practice is not so
rewarding, so, when things are not going well the practice routine suffers.
Lessons, on the other hand, are usually very encouraging and fill me with
enthusiasm - though I would, of course, have wished for more practice before
hand.
I also find that, as I suppose you would expect, improvement is not a linear
thing! When I got all excited about working on slurs I neglected my long
notes - out of enthusiasm rather than idleness - so, I found that I had
slipped back and had to work at them for a while to be ready to work on the
slurs properly. Now I try to be more balanced.
Having said all that, I do manage to practice most days and more than once a
day at weekends. Certainly the practices that I miss are not a result of me
losing enthusiasm.
I hope that personal view of the early stages of learning helps a little!
Having been a teacher (not, of musical instruments!) for many years, I know
how students can be frustrating and try not to be a bad student myself, even
knowing that though doesn't make me a paragon...
--
Judges are known for making extreme antediluvian remarks from time to time,
their being dressed as Ark stevedores only encourages this anachronistic
playing to the gallery.- recommendations on judical attire
Doc
> I'm fishing for opinions and ideas regarding a situation that is
> starting to get on my nerves;
Since one of the benefits that is often touted about playing an
instrument is that it allegedly helps them in other areas of life,
make it an opportunity to have them develop time
management/prioritization skills. There has GOT to be a half hour to
an hour every day or every other day they can devote to woodshedding.
Hey, if Cindy Crawford called and wanted to spend time with them every
day I bet they'd find the time.
What's the reality of their daily life? Are they pissing away time
watching t.v., video games, internet, etc. You know how incredibly
easy it is to blow hours at any of these.
It also may be a matter of they might have to be willing to drop
something else if music is important to them.
Robert DeSavage
>markf...@earthlink.net (markfromsf) wrote in message news:<284f6ebd.03051...@posting.google.com>...
>> I'm fishing for opinions and ideas regarding a situation that is
>> starting to get on my nerves;
>
>Since one of the benefits that is often touted about playing an
>instrument is that it allegedly helps them in other areas of life,
>make it an opportunity to have them develop time
>management/prioritization skills. There has GOT to be a half hour to
>an hour every day or every other day they can devote to woodshedding.
>Hey, if Cindy Crawford called and wanted to spend time with them every
>day I bet they'd find the time.
That's going to the jugular. If Cindy Crawford wanted to spend time
with me every day, even I might consider donating my Wild Thing to a
priest's son. 8-)
On the serious side, why is it that we finally see the light when we
get older with most of our lives behind us? I wish then that I had the
tenacity to practice that I have now. I guess that it's better to be
late than never. However old hat the 'you'll regret it when you're
older' is, it's the truth.
bigtiny
I have found in these cases that the point must be made in extreme
ways...
What it ultimately comes down to is what does the student want to
acheive, do they understand that practice is necessary, and are they,
in fact, willing and able to make the committment to do the work? If
not, then they are wasting both your time and their own.
One thing I used to do with students, and I admit, it's pretty hard
core, is that if the lesson wasn't going well (this is with a habitual
non-worker) and it was determined that the student hadn't practiced,
is that I would have them pay me and send them home with instructions
to practice and redo the weeks lesson.
This tends to make the point. If a student takes issue with this, I
simply explain that time is being wasted, however I showed up prepared
for the lesson so it's right that I should be paid. If this seems
unfair to them, then they should do one of two things:
Practice and come to the lesson prepared
or
realize that they are not able or willing to do the work necessary to
be a musician and quit
Note this technique for the habitual non-worker, not the student who
may have the occasional rough week
bigtiny
markf...@earthlink.net (markfromsf) wrote in message news:<284f6ebd.03051...@posting.google.com>...
Jeff
to be told that his instrumental practice time is essential.
--
Jeff Johnson
AIM: musicjj
"markfromsf" <markf...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:284f6ebd.03051...@posting.google.com...
William Graham
Doc <docsa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0c1bc20.03052...@posting.google.com...
> markf...@earthlink.net (markfromsf) wrote in message
news:<284f6ebd.03051...@posting.google.com>...
> > I'm fishing for opinions and ideas regarding a situation that is
> > starting to get on my nerves;
>
> Since one of the benefits that is often touted about playing an
> instrument is that it allegedly helps them in other areas of life,
> make it an opportunity to have them develop time
> management/prioritization skills. There has GOT to be a half hour to
> an hour every day or every other day they can devote to woodshedding.
> Hey, if Cindy Crawford called and wanted to spend time with them every
> day I bet they'd find the time.
Funny you should mention that....Cindy called me this morning, but I told
her I had to practice.......
Peter H.M. Brooks
news:<284f6ebd.03051...@posting.google.com>...
> > I'm fishing for opinions and ideas regarding a situation that is
> > starting to get on my nerves;
>
> Since one of the benefits that is often touted about playing an
> instrument is that it allegedly helps them in other areas of life,
> make it an opportunity to have them develop time
> management/prioritization skills. There has GOT to be a half hour to
> an hour every day or every other day they can devote to woodshedding.
> Hey, if Cindy Crawford called and wanted to spend time with them every
> day I bet they'd find the time.
>
> What's the reality of their daily life? Are they pissing away time
> watching t.v., video games, internet, etc. You know how incredibly
> easy it is to blow hours at any of these.
>
However, I think you have to be a little bit kinder to new students. After
all, once you realise the value of practice you will motivate yourself.
The early days, when you are really trying but progress is, as it has to be,
slow, are not so easy.
Obviously the more the practice the better you get. However, there are days,
I hope I am not the only beginner to feel this, when you really feel that,
despite your practice, there has been no progress. It just seems stuck (I am
not sure why) and these are dispiriting. A lesson with a good trumpet master
overcomes this.
So, I would plead that the odd bad week with poor practice is ok - though
not every week, of course.
I feel, myself, even without my trumpet master telling me, that I am doing
badly, at a lesson, or at a practice. What is great about the lesson is that
I will be told how I have improved - in areas that I may not have realised
were improving.
It is only when we feel real progress that we feel the inspiration to
continue.
Today my trumpet master was telling me about breathing. Obviously very
important. However, he helped me by pointing out how much it helps being
relaxed in every day life- getting the rhythm of breathing right is a
calming and helpful skill in life. It is something that can make the
practice more enjoyable if you realise it.
So. if I may be so bold, some of the problem has to be with the teacher. Are
you really helping your pupil to gain a delight in practice? Are you showing
him the gains that he can have?
None of us do well at a necessary toil - but all of us do well with a
delightful and desireable interlude. If you, as a teacher, can help your
pupil learn that it is more the latter than the former then your ills are
cured at once!
I know it isn't that easy, but I do think that it is important to remember
that teaching is a dialogue between the teacher and the taught - both have
to take responsibility for what happens, but the teacher has the experience
to communicate the feeling that makes it work.
Telling a pupil that the 'just have to' practice is no substitute for
showing a pupil how it can be a pleasure and a delight.
Maybe I am just lucky in having a very good trumpet master!
--
The story of the human race is war. Except for brief and precarious
interludes there has never been peace in the world; and long before history
began murderous strife was universal and unending." - Winston Churchill
Doc
> > Hey, if Cindy Crawford called and wanted to spend time with them every
> > day I bet they'd find the time.
>
> Funny you should mention that....Cindy called me this morning, but I told
> her I had to practice.......
Suuure... And Mikey S. played a quad-C too...
markfromsf
....... If
> not, then they are wasting both your time and their own.
I've heard this sort of thing my entire life, but I'm not so sure that
MY time is being wasted. It's more an issue of the student's time and
money being wasted. I tell them the truth; they can take or leave
what I tell them and learn the hard way. The deal is that they come
to me and I work hard to see that they learn and improve in a big way.
I've earned my money and it's THEIR fault if they squandered seven
valuable days by not picking up the horn. I 've made it clear
countless times that 90% of their improvement is going to occur due to
the efforts invested BETWEEN lessons. I provide quality instruction
and caring guidance whether they choose to absorb this or not; and
then I'm paid. This is one of the reasons I would prefer not to
simply drop anyone or be excessively harsh beyond explaning the simple
reality of the situation.
Maclone
in school would start kicking me out of my lessons when I wasn't prepared. At
one point I walked into a lesson, he just looked at me and said,"I'm not going
to waste my time anymore just leave your check at the door and leave." After
that moment I began taking my lessons more seriously, hell I even got better.
All was good until I started teaching full time an started slacking off again.
Recently, Adam Rapa (solist from BLAST!) was over and he, my fiance and I were
talking, actually those two were talking and I was listening to them discuss my
practice habits. I believe he put it as eloquently as anyone can put it, "the
horn is just like a girl, if you don't give her any attention she starts
bitching and giving you all sorts of trouble, give her attention and she's
doing anything you want her to do."
So much for rambling
Marc Cervantes
It's only a Super C if you can't play the note, to everyone else it's just
Double C
delete nospam to reply.
Lawrence V. Cipriani
Maclone <mac...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
>
>As a former and sometimes not so former student as such we speak of my
>tpt prof in school would start kicking me out of my lessons when I wasn't
>prepared. At one point I walked into a lesson, he just looked at me
>and said,"I'm not going to waste my time anymore just leave your check
>at the door and leave."
Why do you take lessons? To show your teacher how well you practice
or to get instruction on how to improve?
One of my better lessons when I was the least prepared. One of the
points my teacher made was even if one is not well prepared for some
piece of music still play it musically, don't timidly squeak out the
notes. Hit a wrong note, so what. You'll make mistakes and you'll
know it, but focus on the musicality, remember the fundamentals.
Don't play timidly just because you're almost sight reading, even in
a lesson.
--
Spam is theft - me
Peter H.M. Brooks
"Lawrence V. Cipriani" <l...@ww3.cb.lucent.com> wrote in message
news:bb2dis$q...@netnews.proxy.lucent.com...
> In article <20030527194738...@mb-m18.aol.com>,
> Maclone <mac...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
> >
> >As a former and sometimes not so former student as such we speak of my
> >tpt prof in school would start kicking me out of my lessons when I wasn't
> >prepared. At one point I walked into a lesson, he just looked at me
> >and said,"I'm not going to waste my time anymore just leave your check
> >at the door and leave."
>
> Why do you take lessons? To show your teacher how well you practice
> or to get instruction on how to improve?
>
lesson far worse than I have been doing at practice at home.
The reason is simple - I leave work to go to my lesson and don't have time
to get into the right mode. My teacher made a very sensible suggestion last
lesson. I tend to arrive five or ten minutes early so he suggested that I
use this time to warm up. I'll do it next week and I am certain it will make
a huge difference.
Incidentally, he suggested that I might benefit from trying a trombone as I
have been having some trouble getting my embrochure right. Part of the
problem is that I have only recently had a pinkie holder brazed onto the
left side of my trumpet so that I can hold it properly left-handed. I think
that with a bit more practice with a proper grip I will improve - I am still
going to try a trombone, though, to get a feeling for the difference both in
the playing and the bigger, much bigger, mouthpiece. Any thoughts about
problems with this?
--
The happiest people on earth are those few fortunates who seem to be in a
state of mild, stable hypomania. - David Horrobin 'The Madness of Adam and
Eve' (How schizophrenia shaped humanity)
Lawrence V. Cipriani
Peter H.M. Brooks <pe...@new.co.za> wrote:
>
>"Lawrence V. Cipriani" <l...@ww3.cb.lucent.com> wrote in message
>news:bb2dis$q...@netnews.proxy.lucent.com...
>>
>> or to get instruction on how to improve?
>>
>Both. I have been a bit frustrated that I have found my performance at a
>lesson far worse than I have been doing at practice at home.
I never noticed my lessons being far worse than practice. How I play
a piece at home matches very closely how I first play it in my lesson.
After my teacher makes some suggestions and then I can play it better.
>The reason is simple - I leave work to go to my lesson and don't have time
>to get into the right mode. My teacher made a very sensible suggestion last
>lesson. I tend to arrive five or ten minutes early so he suggested that I
>use this time to warm up. I'll do it next week and I am certain it will make
>a huge difference.
My lessons, when I have them, are on Saturdays. I have a 30 minute
drive to my teachers house, I usually listen to some Vizzutti on the
way. And usually before I leave for the lesson I've already warmed
up with long tones and the Clarke chromatic technical studies. We
usually take a few minutes to do some more warm ups, and then on with
the lesson.
>Incidentally, he suggested that I might benefit from trying a trombone as I
>have been having some trouble getting my embrochure right. Part of the
>problem is that I have only recently had a pinkie holder brazed onto the
>left side of my trumpet so that I can hold it properly left-handed. I think
>that with a bit more practice with a proper grip I will improve - I am still
>going to try a trombone, though, to get a feeling for the difference both in
>the playing and the bigger, much bigger, mouthpiece. Any thoughts about
>problems with this?
If you're asking me ... I guess I don't see why playing trombone would
help you be a better trumpet player.
Learning piano, if not being very good at it, would make you a better
overall musician than just playing trumpet and only trumpet.
Ed Grant
note. Played strongly and becomes an interpretation!"
Maaan....what a lot of interpretation.
--
Ed Grant
"Lawrence V. Cipriani" <l...@ww3.cb.lucent.com> wrote in message
news:bb2dis$q...@netnews.proxy.lucent.com...
Jon Trimble
pretty harsh. I've told students in the past, if you aren't willing to
practice, stop wasting you're parents money and stop coming to me. Yeah, a
bit hard. Here's another approach I tok. I refused payment for a lesson.
Stated to the parents, I don't feel he learned anything or applied himseld
in any way over the past week. It comes down to WANTING to make time. I
think the parents were so embarassed that they basically beasted on the kid
to put a little time in. I dunno. Either they want it or not. I always
remind students regardless of whtether they want to play pro or not, it's
still a great way to pay for college. I feel for you bud. Wouldn't it be
nice if we could beat the crap out of them to MAKE them do it?....:)
Jon Trimble
"markfromsf" <markf...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Jon Trimble
They must bring me one song, regardless of who they are, and we will listen
to it. I also need to have three sentences minimum as to why they want to
play trumpet.
Jon Trimble
"markfromsf" <markf...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Peter H.M. Brooks
"Jon Trimble" <trum...@tablerock.net> wrote in message
news:3ed71...@corp.newsgroups.com...
> I forgot, before any student comes to me, they have a written assignment.
> They must bring me one song, regardless of who they are, and we will
listen
> to it. I also need to have three sentences minimum as to why they want to
> play trumpet.
>
I think adult learners, like me, are a little different - even though we
also have to battle with practicing!
Robert DeSavage
<trum...@tablerock.net> wrote:
>I forgot, before any student comes to me, they have a written assignment.
>They must bring me one song, regardless of who they are, and we will listen
>to it. I also need to have three sentences minimum as to why they want to
>play trumpet.
>
>Jon Trimble
Here are my three Jon.
I'm crazy. I couldn't get into brain surgery college. The plumbers
school wasn't accepting any more students.