Art van Damme's left hand technique
Bob van der Poel
I was listening to some Art Van Damme tunes the other day. He really
does have a nice touch!
But, I can't seem to figure out what he's doing with his left hand.
Sounds to me like he is letting the upright do the bass lines, and isn't
playing much of anything with the left .... but I find that hard to
believe. So, please enlighten me.
--
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bvd...@kootenay.com
WWW: http://www.kootenay.com/~bvdpoel
stevesaccordionshop
--- In squee...@yahoogroups.com, usenet@d... wrote:
> Really-Reply-To: Bob van der Poel <bvdpoel@k...>
> Really-From: Bob van der Poel <bvdpoel@k...>
>
>
> I was listening to some Art Van Damme tunes the other day. He
really does have a nice touch!
>
> But, I can't seem to figure out what he's doing with his left hand.
> Sounds to me like he is letting the upright do the bass lines, and
isn't playing much of anything with the left .... but I find that
hard to believe. So, please enlighten me.
> --
> Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
He 'comps' with it. He also uses it at times as an 'air button' by
holding many bass buttons down. (but not in his recordings)
Steve Navoyosky
jonas aras
This aspect of playing is ignored by 99.9% of accordion players. That said,
Art once told me that with his horn-like bellowing technique, with every
phrase and note bellowed separately, he really couldn't figure out a way to
incorporate the left hand.
Using one set of belllows to phrase two hands is a bit of a challenge. Most
players choose to ignore this (or they don't even realize that there is a
"problem") and just play everything at pretty much the same dynamic level,
similar to how an organ would sound. Whether or not you care for that type
of sound is up to you.
"Bob van der Poel" <bvd...@kootenay.com> wrote in message
news:3ec2d...@dns.sd54.bc.ca...
Tom Sullivan
>
>I was listening to some Art Van Damme tunes the other day. He really
>does have a nice touch!
>
>But, I can't seem to figure out what he's doing with his left hand.
>Sounds to me like he is letting the upright do the bass lines, and isn't
>playing much of anything with the left .... but I find that hard to
>believe
He doesn't play left hand much if at all. When playing in most any group either
the guitar or bass players carry the music of the left hand.
When in a group, LH should not be used (except sparingly and when it fits) or
if you are the bass line.
Which brings up much printed accordion music.. including Arts.... the written
LH isn't what is actually used or played, so one must figure out, when playing
solo, the sound one is looking for and make up you LH to fit. That's why I have
found it just as easy in many cases to play from piano scores.
tom sullivan
Bob van der Poel
Thanks for the confirmation. Sometimes, when all one has to go on are
recordings, it is easy to _not_ completely believe your ears.
I'm not a great fan of jazz on accordion; that's what my saxes are for.
But, the more I listen to Art the more I realize how much there is to
learn. Now, if I only had the last 50 years to live over again ... oh well!
Helen P.
> Using one set of belllows to phrase two hands is a bit of a challenge.
Most
> players choose to ignore this (or they don't even realize that there is a
> "problem") and just play everything at pretty much the same dynamic level
That's "elevator music". Yech! :-(
-- Helen
Ralph Stricker
know what you are referring to, I just want to hear it from you and others.
I will respond in my usual gentle manner.
Regards (I think)
Ralph Stricker
"Helen P." <le...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ba2jko$oc7$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Theodore Kloba
> Would you or someone be so kind to define the term "elevator" music." I
> know what you are referring to, I just want to hear it from you and others.
> I will respond in my usual gentle manner.
I would define "elevator music" as music which is created to be innocuous.
> "Helen P." <le...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>"jonas aras" <jsa...@sbcglobal-123nospam.net> wrote:
>>>"problem") and just play everything at pretty much the same dynamic
> level
>>That's "elevator music". Yech! :-(
Playing at one dynamic (or processing a recording to squash dynamic
range) will definitely make music more innocuous.
--
Theodore M. Kloba * hey...@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/heytud/
http://www.mp3.com/boxman/
James Macina
> >
> >
> >I was listening to some Art Van Damme tunes the other day. He really
> >does have a nice touch!
> >
> >But, I can't seem to figure out what he's doing with his left hand.
> >Sounds to me like he is letting the upright do the bass lines, and isn't
> >playing much of anything with the left .... but I find that hard to
> >believe
>
> He doesn't play left hand much if at all. When playing in most any group either
> the guitar or bass players carry the music of the left hand.
>
> When in a group, LH should not be used (except sparingly and when it fits) or
> if you are the bass line.
I think this depends on the player. I heard Eddie Montiero play with
a guitar player a while back- he was using a Midi box with the warmest
bass patch I've heard, and it sounded incredible, with neither one
stepping on the other. I have also heard Frank Marocco do work on his
left hand that would scare some bass players into leaving their axes
home! On the contrary, I have heard other instances that were
catastrophic.
Speaking of which, are either these guys doing any performances in the
states? I find myself in New York and LA with some frequency, but
have not heard of anything. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Jim Macina
Ralph Stricker
offices etc. They played great recordings. I remember listening to Jackie
Gleason & strings and other big band sounds. Montovani for one. If you call
that kind of music innocuous, then in my opinion you do not appreciate good
music. Most people relate to the term elevator music as for senior citizens.
Well I know a lot of senior citizens who can swing the heck out of All The
Things You Are, Confirmation, Four Brothers, So In Love, I Concentrate on
You, to mention a few.
Regards
Ralph Stricker
"Theodore Kloba" <hey...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3EC4F244...@yahoo.com...
Ralph Stricker
Shanghai Jazz with Claudio Roditi. Frank Marocco periodically appears at
clubs in LA.
Regards
Ralph Stricker
"James Macina" <jmac...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:88c74109.03051...@posting.google.com...
Cliff Bentz
I've seen Art many times and listened very carefully to his many
recordings and he frequently uses the bellows air button both live and
recording. He also uses an "all fingers" technique on the LH to allow
his bellows to give him the dynamics he's looking for on his RH. Art
did this more on the later MPS West Germany recordings than in his
earlier recordings from the 50's.
On the flip side, Frank Marocco and the late Leon Sash are excellent
examples of LH artistry. They both have a LH that one can really
envy. With some amount of practice any accordionist can aspire to
their level of acoustic jazz accordion.
Cliff Bentz
Helen P.
played.
I've heard even rough-edged Rock 'n' Roll songs turned into saccharine pap.
Similarly, some of the Irish music jams in my area suffer this way. Often,
folks are so concerned about (1) playing really fast or (2) not getting in
the way of the top player, that they forget to make the notes into *music*.
-- Helen
who has rather omnivorous musical tastes,
from big band to church music to hard rock to celtic,
as long as it's well done
Helen P.
played.
I've heard even rough-edged Rock 'n' Roll songs turned into saccharine pap.
Similarly, some of the Irish music jams in my area suffer this way. Often,
folks are so concerned about (1) playing really fast or (2) not getting in
the way of the top player, that they forget to make the notes into *music*.
-- Helen
who has rather omnivorous musical tastes,
from big band to church music to hard rock to celtic,
as long as it's well done
stevesaccordionshop
> Really-From: "Helen P." <leap@m...>
>
> The problem is not *what* tunes are played, but rather *how* they
are played.
>
> I've heard even rough-edged Rock 'n' Roll songs turned into
saccharine pap.
>
>
> who has rather omnivorous musical tastes, from big band to church
music to hard rock to celtic, as long as it's well done
The music ("tunes") that is used is selected by popular means, but
played in a relaxing manner...to relax individuals....not pump them
up. Another feature is the EQing and volume, done intentionally for
the same purpose. It's all done well and with a purpose in mind.
Best bet is to take an escalator, or use a walkman with your
favorites blaring in your ears.
Steve Navoyosky
Pete Nalda
says...
> The problem is not *what* tunes are played, but rather *how* they are
> played.
>
> I've heard even rough-edged Rock 'n' Roll songs turned into saccharine pap.
>
> Similarly, some of the Irish music jams in my area suffer this way. Often,
> folks are so concerned about (1) playing really fast or (2) not getting in
> the way of the top player, that they forget to make the notes into *music*.
>
> -- Helen
I've heard sessions that'll put you to sleep fast. It gets to where it
sounds like a constant drone. The leader should know how to variate the
dynamics but many do not. And other people don't want to step on toes
so they wouldn't fluctuate dynamics even if they knew how to properly.
Ralph Stricker
Recording, live performance etc. etc. Many of you would say "elevator
music." That is what I have been trying to convey to the NG.news:ba40sd$9lu$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
> When Musak first came out with the idea of playing music in elevators, Dr's
> offices etc. They played great recordings.
You have to remember that Musak (the specific service by that name) is
VERY specifically programmed to be unobtrusive, to have a very specific
mood/energy cycle over a very specific time period, etc. Its goal is to
relax folks and to make them want to stay in the space, NOT to entertain
them per se; it's background music rather than listening music... and
it's intended to be tolerable to anyone (as opposed to the laundromat I
used to go to, which played all saccherine love songs all the time in an
effort to discourage folks, especially teens and young males, from
staying any longer than they had to), which means "inoffensive" is
considered a strong positive.
That doesn't mean they won't use some good stuff. But it's not supposed
to be particularly engaging (they don't _want_ you consciously paying
attention to it) and it's going to tend toward innocuous as a result.
THAT IS NOT A FAULT, IT'S A PROGRAMMING DECISION, and is *entirely*
appropriate given their mission.
Note that there are competing services -- and recordings (tape loops
then, repeating CDs now) -- which are programmed differently and may or
may not have the same production values. So, yes, there are some
elevators with truly hideous music, just as there's some abominable
music-on-hold. Ya never get what ya ain't willin' to pay for...
I don't make the association to senior citizens, by the way; I agree
with you that that one's the result of people not bothering to listen.
--
Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
{} ASCII Ribbon Campaign | "may'ron DaroQbe'chugh vaj bIrIQbej" --
/\ Stamp out HTML mail! | "Put down the squeezebox & nobody gets hurt."
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
> My gripe is that if a ballad such as "Body & Soul" were played in public.
> Recording, live performance etc. etc. Many of you would say "elevator
> music."
I agree that this is a misuse of the term. On the other hand, de
gustibus non disputandum est; some folks really aren't interested in
ballads, and that's as valid a judgement of personal taste as any other.
Me? I'll listen to almost any style except country-western... though if
there are lyrics, I want _good_ lyrics rather than pap. If a singer
doesn't have anything to say, I'd rather they just drop back to vocalese.
Ralph Stricker
"Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)" <kes...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3ec66c81$1...@news1.prserv.net...
> Ralph Stricker wrote:
> > My gripe is that if a ballad such as "Body & Soul" were played in
public.
> > Recording, live performance etc. etc. Many of you would say "elevator
> > music."
>
> I agree that this is a misuse of the term. On the other hand, de
> gustibus non disputandum est; some folks really aren't interested in
> ballads, and that's as valid a judgement of personal taste as any other.
Their problem is they can't or won't appreciate great chord changes and good
lyrics. Most people are only interested in how fast the song is being
played.
>
> Me? I'll listen to almost any style except country-western... though if
> there are lyrics, I want _good_ lyrics rather than pap. If a singer
> doesn't have anything to say, I'd rather they just drop back to vocalese.
What about Ira Gershwin & Ira Hammerstein as lyricists? Probably 2 of the
greatest of all time.
Regards
Ralph Stricker
Ralph Stricker
So if Chopin's Nocturne in Eb were being played. That would be considered
"elevator music."
Joe I enjoy having a discussion with you, I consider you an intellectual
person. Your English is also excellent.
Regards
Ralph Stricker
>
stevesaccordionshop
> Really-From: "Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)" <keshlam@a...>
> Me? I'll listen to almost any style except country-western...
The 'old' country-western, or the new country-rock?
There's a big difference.
Krazy Kanuk
> The 'old' country-western, or the new country-rock?
>
> There's a big difference.
country-rock.....everyone has their own preferances I guess....
I figure if there is a huge population that finds a genre of music appealing
....there must be something to it.....so I listen and try to get into
it.....
still working on rap though but what do you expect from an old honky
accordion player?<g>
Len
Helen P.
> The music ("tunes") that is used is selected by popular means, but
> played in a relaxing manner...to relax individuals....not pump them
> up. Another feature is the EQing and volume, done intentionally for
> the same purpose. It's all done well and with a purpose in mind.
Being the musical equivalent of "white noise" is the goal. However, for
some people, it is as annoying as being forced to listen to a terminally
boring speaker.
No matter how you cut it, though, it's not a desirable musical effect for a
performer who is seeking to engage his/her audience.
> Best bet is to take an escalator, or use a walkman with your
> favorites blaring in your ears.
Ugh! (not for the escalator: I quite like to walk briskly up/down on them
and really whiz along <g>)
But " favorites blaring in your ears" sounds utterly revolting. I like to
*hear* music, not just be blasted by it.
-- Helen
happily crawling off to bed after an afternoon & evening of dancing to hot
reels, silly jigs, minuets, smooth waltzes, and more.
Helen P.
> > The problem is not *what* tunes are played,
> > but rather *how* they are played.
"Ralph Stricker" <bjp...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> My gripe is that if a ballad such as "Body & Soul" were played in public.
> Recording, live performance etc. etc. Many of you would say "elevator
> music." That is what I have been trying to convey to the NG.
Not I, though I agree that some people will feel that way about certain
songs.
BTW, it's quite fun when, occasionally at a big Scottish Country Dance
workshop, the teacher will ask the musicians to play one tune in a variety
of styles or rhythms.
-- Helen
who's been know to incite the Scottish Fiddle Club into playing "Chopsticks"
as an oh-so-elegant strathspey <g>
Jim Lucas
> Would you or someone be so kind to define the term
> "elevator" music."
Isn't that where the volume keeps going up and down over and over again?
;-)
/Jim
Jim Lucas
> They played great recordings... Montovani for one.
Some people think Montovani is great; some don't. (The same can be said
of heavy metal, Elvis Presley, Brahms, and even Frank Marocco.) I
remember hearing the description, "Montovani's Musical Molasses".
Elevator music -- or "elevator music", or brand-name "Muzak" -- is
variously described as intending to be "unobtrusive", or even "soothing".
I guess "innocuous" -- which means "harmless" -- should fit, too.
But to those who use the term negativevly it tends to mean "bland",
"uninteresting", "insipid", and "monotonous", as well as "inescapable".
My personal objection to "elevator music" is less musical than the fact
that I have no choice as to its content or even its presence. It is
imposed upon me against my will. That I also find the very blandness of
many of the arrangements to be annoying is secondary.
/Jim Lucas
jonas aras
> a guitar player a while back- he was using a Midi box with the warmest
> bass patch I've heard, and it sounded incredible, with neither one
> stepping on the other. I have also heard Frank Marocco do work on his
> left hand that would scare some bass players into leaving their axes
> home!
Both of these players have used left hand bass to great effect. However,
the fact that one is playing two things at once, the phrasing of the right
hand has to be compromised, particularly if you're playing acoustically.
This is why Art Van Damme sounds a LOT like a clarinet or a saxophone. His
dynamic range is much more extreme than 99% of accordion players, which is
one of the reasons his music swings so much.
A drummer has a 100 to 1 ration between its softest and loudest sounds. A
saxophone player probably has a 50 to 1 ratio between its softest note and
its loudest note. A piano is maybe 20 to 1. The accordion proabably has a
greater dynamic range than a piano, but precious few take true advantage of
this possibility. It's tough enough just to nail the notes on the
accordion, but for a great musical performance you must be able to go beyond
that. It's not enough to have a "clean" touch. You've got to be able to
make a story out of every phrase and the entire song in general. Playing
with relatively flat dynamics without "breaking the bellows" is the accepted
norm on the instrument (kinda like a Casio keyboard). This "flat" sound is
one of the reasons that most non-accordionist musicians really don't like to
listen to the accordion. The fact that somebody can hit the notes
accurately is expected from every instrumentalist...whether or not you can
get the listener involved in a drama....that's the mark of an artist. As
you listen to a great singer, violinist, or saxophonist, one is captivated
by just the sound. When's the last time you heard an accordionist play just
a single note unaccompanied melody and you were just amazed by the wonderful
phrasing and sound? This is a test that separates the men from the boys!
I'll probably get flamed like crazy here, but this group should also be
about how to further the instrument in every way possible.
Cheers,
Jonas
Krazy Kanuk
When's the last time you heard an accordionist play just
> a single note unaccompanied melody and you were just amazed by the
wonderful
> phrasing and sound? This is a test that separates the men from the boys!
>
> I'll probably get flamed like crazy here, but this group should also be
> about how to further the instrument in every way possible.
your post....One question though.....How did you arrive at your figures
regarding the amount of dynamic range from drums, sax, accordion etc?
Len
Michael J. Albanese
> When Musak first came out with the idea of playing music in elevators, Dr's
> offices etc. They played great recordings. I remember listening to Jackie
> Gleason & strings and other big band sounds. Montovani for one. If you call
> that kind of music innocuous, then in my opinion you do not appreciate good
> music.
That reminds me also of the earlier days of FM radio and how good it was
compared with today. Beautiful, mostly commercial-free music from
Montovani, Arthur Fiedler, etc. And the few commercials that were on
were done tastefully. FM was somewhat elite and upscale, since only the
wealthy and upper middle class could afford good equipment. Then came
the big stereo boom of the mid-to-late 60's, making it all affordable to
the "average Joe". It ruined everything :-)
BTW, my family wasn't wealthy or even upper middle class, but I did have
the advantage of a dad who sold RCA for a living. First on the block
with color TV, console stereo, etc. Those were the days!
Mike
--
(remove 'revoke-my-' from address for email)
Michael J. Albanese
> Being the musical equivalent of "white noise" is the goal. However, for
> some people, it is as annoying as being forced to listen to a terminally
> boring speaker.
I think my best definition of stereotypical elevator music would have to
be that scene in the "Blues Brothers" movie. I crack up everytime I
watch it.
allen watsky
the 80's. Its a smooth Jazz/Funk type music that combines Fusion Jazz and
pop Rn'B. It serves a need and its annoying as well, it has the vertue of
providing "professional" musicians with employment, its Musak like.
Many average listeners have been trained by the music industry to hear
any popular style of music that is played by trained musicians as bland and
it does often sound that way. The folks have become used to the more rough
and ready styles of Rock and Country. The esentially Eurocentric notion of
the vertuoso is being replaced by the preference for authenticity, which
seems to lead to the agrandizment of incompletly trained players , singers
and composers. There has been a shift in the cultrual esthetic. Its the same
sort of trouble that Jazz musicians have. Some people hear jazz as Cocktail
music, no matter who's playing it. One mans music is another's musak
Michael J. Albanese
> You have to remember that Musak (the specific service by that name) is
> VERY specifically programmed to be unobtrusive, to have a very specific
> mood/energy cycle over a very specific time period, etc. Its goal is to
> relax folks and to make them want to stay in the space, NOT to entertain
> them per se; it's background music rather than listening music... and
> it's intended to be tolerable to anyone (as opposed to the laundromat I
> used to go to, which played all saccherine love songs all the time in an
> effort to discourage folks, especially teens and young males, from
> staying any longer than they had to), which means "inoffensive" is
> considered a strong positive.
Several years ago I did some work for the marketing department of a firm
which, lucky for me, was testing a Muzak-type service for use in their
stores. Each day they had it turned on for the offices, where we
employees and contractors were the "captive audience". At first it
seemed fairly unobtrusive, but slowly I began to notice the music, and
then to absolutely DREAD it. Not so much because of the content, but
because of the repetition -- the same saccharine songs repeated four or
five times each day, every day. And if there happened to be a song that
I really hated (something like "Midnight at the Oasis", for example), it
was even worse, like getting a dagger in the eye four times a day.
Thankfully, my PC had CDROM, so I was able to bring discs from home and
listen on a headset, drowning out the music coming from the ceiling.
Believe me, when used for something other than its intended purpose,
Muzak-type service can be an instrument of the utmost torture :-)
stevesaccordionshop
> Really-From: "Helen P." <leap@m...>
>
>
effect for a performer who is seeking to engage his/her audience.
Elevator music was/is not meant for that purpose. Just tune it out
when you're in that elevator...or take the stairs. ;-)
jonas aras
"Krazy Kanuk" <sask...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ec7cf83$1...@news3.accesscomm.ca...
>> No flames from me Jonas!.....I heartily agree with everything you said in
> your post....One question though.....How did you arrive at your figures
> regarding the amount of dynamic range from drums, sax, accordion etc?
> Len
>
>
I lifted that from an interview that Pat Metheny did in Downbeat magazine.
He also said that the guitar has about a 3 to 1 dynamic range. He was also
commenting on how John Scofield has incorporated very low-volume phrasing
into his playing and that has helped to advance the instrument in a jazz
setting.
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
> So if Chopin's Nocturne in Eb were being played. That would be considered
> "elevator music."
As I use the term (others may, of course, disagree):
If it were being played with the intent that it be taken as
non-distracting background music -- the canonical example, of course,
being in an elevator -- yes.
If it were being played because someone actually wanted to listen to it, no.
The question isn't necessarily the music as much as the context.
(Having said that, I must also say that I've heard some rather hideous
performances used as background music. But I wouldn't want to hear those
in an elevator either.)
> Joe I enjoy having a discussion with you, I consider you an intellectual
> person.
I try.
I'm absolutely brain-fried right now (work is being rather more ... ahem
... interesting than usual), so if I say anything completely off-base in
the next few weeks please accept my apologies in advance.
> Your English is also excellent.
Never tried English; I play Anglo. <smile/>
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
> The 'old' country-western, or the new country-rock?
> There's a big difference.
Not sure of how you're drawing the lines, so I'm not sure I've heard
enough of the latter to answer the question. Would it help if I said
"I'll listen to country, I'll listen to western, I won't listen to
country-western"?
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
> That reminds me also of the earlier days of FM radio and how good it was
> compared with today. Beautiful, mostly commercial-free music from
> Montovani, Arthur Fiedler, etc.
It still exists, mostly but not exclusively in the form of public radio.
There are _occasional_ commercial stations in larger markets which
maintain the same standard.
(I'm currently a member of three separate public radio stations, and
considering sending money to a fourth. I don't think there's a single
commercial station on my home stereo's presets; there's one on the car's
buttons.)
Cliff Bentz
How did this AVD thread evolve into country, rock, western & elevator accordion?
Cliff Bentz
stevesaccordionshop
> Really-From: "Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)" <keshlam@a...>
(snip)
> If it were being played because someone actually wanted to listen
to it, no.
> The question isn't necessarily the music as much as the context.
>>
The topic has more to do with content than context. (see your next
statement)
<<
> (Having said that, I must also say that I've heard some rather
hideous performances used as background music. But I wouldn't want to
hear those in an elevator either.)
>
The music *used* had an entirely different reason for being made
originally. The selections *used* were based on reasons heretofore
discussed and made, as well as engineering EQ 'enhancements' to
change the bias from the original recording. Also we have here a
conglomeration of the same music without the aid of an A&R person,
therefore augmenting the 'blahness' of the purpose.
If you've ever heard the program "Hearts of Space" with New Age
music, the same comments I've been reading would also apply.
....And then we have subjectiveness........ ;-)
stevesaccordionshop
--- In squee...@yahoogroups.com, usenet@d... wrote:
> Really-Reply-To: "Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)" <keshlam@a...>
> Really-From: "Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)" <keshlam@a...>
>
> > The 'old' country-western, or the new country-rock?
> > There's a big difference.
>
> Not sure of how you're drawing the lines, so I'm not sure I've
heard enough of the latter to answer the question. Would it help if I
said "I'll listen to country, I'll listen to western, I won't listen
to country-western"?
Joe Kesselman
>>
I go back farther than you and so I asked that question as most fail
to recognize that (country) western music involved lyrics about
horses, plains, dogs, etc.
The CR sees to enjoy the worldly events of divorce, adultry,smoking,
and the like.
The old movie westerns and grand old opera events (round-square-polka
dancing) are considered Country-western music, while the other is
based on rock....after beats..and sinilar lyrics.
That's all.
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
Freedom of association is guaranteed by the constitution, isn't it? (On
the other hand, free association is worth what you pay for it.)
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
> If you've ever heard the program "Hearts of Space" with New Age
> music, the same comments I've been reading would also apply.
>
As I think you've just demonstrated. I've heard some good new-age music;
I've even heard some on that very program.
Remember Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crud. Beware of
overgeneralizing from that to the conclusion that it's all crud.
~Dream~
> How did this AVD thread evolve into country, rock, western & elevator accordion?
possibly because one could make the case that
the music of Art Van Damme would be at the
polar opposite end of the scale from "Muzak" ?
Ciao Ventura
~Dream~
> However,
> the fact that one is playing two things at once, the phrasing of the right
> hand has to be compromised, particularly if you're playing acoustically.
> This is why Art Van Damme sounds a LOT like a clarinet or a saxophone. His
> dynamic range is much more extreme than 99% of accordion players, which is
> one of the reasons his music swings so much.
Once again let me use this example and discussion as an
opportunity to drive home the point that the judicious
use of MIDI files allows ANY modern Accordionist to
practice and even perform in this manner with only
a modest investment in time to learn some of the basics
of using a computer based sequencer.
At this modern point, you all have decent sound cards in your
computers, and likely a fairly good home Stereo system as well...
so even those of you without PA systems can give it a go.
There is an incredible sense of freedom, and a vast expansion
of possibilities, which focusing 100% of your efforts through
the treble will expose to your mind. Coupled with fine Microphones
and serious amplification, the dynamic range and ability
of the Accordion to achieve great sensitivity when used in
this manner can allow our instrument to stand tall in the
front row of any group.
Once you have mastered this, going the next step with
"MIDI bass" coupled to treble reeds is a breeze, even
for those of you who do not have years of "organ accordion"
in your blood as many of us fossils do.
> When's the last time you heard an accordionist play just
> a single note unaccompanied melody
my rendition of "America" is "acapella" accordion
(treble, solo note, middle reed, constantly variable BPM)
through the first chorus, then bass is added in a
classic pattern mimicking a Marching Snare drum
for most of the second chorus, then the last 8 bars
close with fat, full, lush treble chords supported
on the bass with sustained notes.
> and you were just amazed by the wonderful
> phrasing and sound?
well, it get's the emotion of that song across more
powerfully than any other approach I've ever tried...
stops some folks in their tracks, they look at you and
don't even blink until the final note.
sort of like whispering when you want people to
really hear what you have to say, then once you have their
full attention you can hit 'em with all you've got.
Ciao Ventura
~Dream~
>
> My gripe is that if a ballad such as "Body & Soul" were played in public.
> Recording, live performance etc. etc. Many of you would say "elevator
> music."
You folks around new York may very well
have had hipper MUZAK than we did in DC (or PGH.)
imagine Body and Soul with no diminished, no 6th, no seventh,
no augmented chords, played with a minimum of bland, basic
major and minor chord changes, and with no dynamics at all.
that's what MUZAK as produced in the Washington area studio
is, and while I imagine it does "work" as intended with
the general public (they are very profitable and have
been highly successful for decades) it is guaranteed
to gag any decent Musician that hears it, precisely because
we know how the music should be played and how beautiful
the effect of great chord changes can be...
I should also confess that I'm not the type of person
who can stand pre-programmed background music of any kind
for very long... made a concious decision very early in my
life to seriously resist allowing any kind of music
not of my choosing to get "burnt" into my brain, and so
avoid situations where the radio just plays on and on...
Ciao Ventura
Ralph Stricker
"~Dream~" <acco...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3EC86703...@worldnet.att.net...
> Ralph Stricker wrote:
> >
> > My gripe is that if a ballad such as "Body & Soul" were played in
public.
> > Recording, live performance etc. etc. Many of you would say "elevator
> > music."
>
> You folks around new York may very well
> have had hipper MUZAK than we did in DC (or PGH.)
>
> imagine Body and Soul with no diminished, no 6th, no seventh,
> no augmented chords, played with a minimum of bland, basic
> major and minor chord changes, and with no dynamics at all.
Then it would not be "Body & Soul" but a country western tune. :-) Which
normally uses only 3 changes. I IV V
Regards
Ralph Stricker
Ralph Stricker
"Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)" <kes...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3ec80...@news1.prserv.net...
(classical) Just to name a few.
Regards
Ralph Stricker
Ralph Stricker
Not exactly. There are many people who would term it as "elevator music."
That is what I resent. The fact that people put a label on Jazz and or
Standards.
Regards
Ralph Stricker
Krazy Kanuk
> Not exactly. There are many people who would term it as "elevator music."
> That is what I resent. The fact that people put a label on Jazz and or
> Standards.
> Regards
> Ralph Stricker
>
....Or put a label on "country" music Ralph.....there are some pieces in
even that genre that can deeply move the soul....yes sometimes just using a
few chords in a simple progression.......In any kind of music....the more
popular it becomes, the more schlock surfaces to appeal to the uninformed
masses that "jumed on the bandwagon" of it's popularity....this happened in
country music and now there is also a resurgence of the roots coming back to
revitalize it.
Theodore Kloba
> That reminds me also of the earlier days of FM radio and how good it was
> compared with today. Beautiful, mostly commercial-free music from
> Montovani, Arthur Fiedler, etc.
Sounds a lot like the internet. Once mainstream businesses found out
money could be made, things changes.
--
Theodore M. Kloba * hey...@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/heytud/
http://www.mp3.com/boxman/
Theodore Kloba
> Then it would not be "Body & Soul" but a country western tune. :-) Which
> normally uses only 3 changes. I IV V
Sometimes 3 chords are all you need. Sometimes you need to stop trying
to impress everyone with your ability and just let the song be.
Jim Lucas
> > When Musak first came out with the idea of playing
> > music in elevators, Dr's offices etc. They played
> > great recordings.
Michael J. Albanese responded...
> That reminds me also of the earlier days of FM radio
> and how good it was compared with today.
Michael, if you've never heard Mike Agranoff's "The Sandman", you really
should. He's a great storyteller. It's a spoken ballad, a yarn about the
passing of FM's golden era. Even though Mike's ballad is about rock 'n
roll FM and it sounds like your own golden age may have been the one
preceding his, you might enjoy the story. It's on his "Modern Folk
Musician" CD, which can probably be ordered from The Button Box, in
Amherst, MA. Mike also plays English concertina, but not on "Sandman".
/Jim Lucas
Jim Lucas
> Sometimes 3 chords are all you need. Sometimes you
> need to stop trying to impress everyone with your ability
> and just let the song be.
To me, the important word here is "sometimes". Doing everything the
same -- whether it's 3 chords or 13 or 30 -- is deadly boring, even when
it's irritating or painful. An artist or peformer needs to be able to
tell which times are which... and that's not necessarily the same as
knowing which *tunes* are which. The "right" way to play a given piece
can -- and in my opinion usually should -- depend on the situation.
/Jim Lucas
Jim Lucas
> Would it help if I said "I'll listen to country, I'll listen to
> western, I won't listen to country-western"?
What about Middle-Eastern? 8^)
/Jim
Jim Lucas
> > possibly ... one could make the case that the music
> > of Art Van Damme would be at the polar opposite
> > end of the scale from "Muzak" ?
Ralph Stricker responded:
> Not exactly. There are many people who would term it
> as "elevator music." That is what I resent. The fact that
> people put a label on Jazz and or Standards.
Well, some people do and some people don't. Phil is absolutely right that
"one could"... even if *another* wouldn't.
My experience is that most people label music as "elevator music" based on
the way it's arranged and played, *not* the original musical genre,...
particularly if the arrangement is both anomalous and homogenized. To me
it's things like "Maple Leaf Rag" without the syncopation, or a 101
Strings rendition of either a Bach two-part invention or a Hoagy
Carmichael medley.
But as somebody else mentioned, it's also in the repetition. If you ride
the same elevator regularly and the same tunes in the same arrangements
repeat day after day, you can easily become sick of them. Of course, you
can get the same effect from pop radio or MTV if you keep it on all the
time. :-)
/Jim Lucas
stevesaccordionshop
> Really-From: ~Dream~ <accordion@w...>
>
(snip)
> I should also confess that I'm not the type of person
> who can stand pre-programmed background music of any kind
> for very long... made a concious decision very early in my
> life to seriously resist allowing any kind of music
> not of my choosing to get "burnt" into my brain, and so
> avoid situations where the radio just plays on and on...
>
> Ciao Ventura
That's a strange statement for a guy who does preprogramed MIDI
Theodore Kloba
music is that?" when I'm playing something from Lithuania, Tuva,
Finland, Azerbaijan, Mali or wherever... I say, "It's country music,
just not from this country."
Ralph Stricker
"Theodore Kloba" <hey...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3EC8F725...@yahoo.com...
> Ralph Stricker wrote:
> > Then it would not be "Body & Soul" but a country western tune. :-)
Which
> > normally uses only 3 changes. I IV V
>
> Sometimes 3 chords are all you need. Sometimes you need to stop trying
> to impress everyone with your ability and just let the song be.
I agree that "sometimes less is better." I'd like to hear you play (not
really) Body & Soul with 3 chords. It is not always a matter of trying to
impress everyone. It is a matter of standards which I set for myself.
Regards
Ralph Stricker
Cliff Bentz
> > Really-From: "Helen P." <leap@m...>
> >
> >
> > No matter how you cut it, though, it's not a desirable musical
> effect for a performer who is seeking to engage his/her audience.
> > -- Helen
>
> Elevator music was/is not meant for that purpose. Just tune it out
> when you're in that elevator...or take the stairs. ;-)
Hank Williams. Where are you when we need you?
Cliff Bentz
~Dream~
might want to give deep, personal consideration.
Ralph Stricker wrote:
>
> It is not always a matter of trying to
> impress everyone. It is a matter of standards which I set for myself.
The truest competition is against yourself, to
continually strive to exceed the markers you have reached
on previous attempts.
If you set and keep your standards high, then whether it's
a MIDI arrangement or an "un-plugged" presentation of
MacArthur Park - you will know when it is "right"
Then when you reach a state of satisfaction with your
presentation of a piece (not that one can ever be
completely satisfied, as we are always fine-tuning things)
your chances of giving an audience something not
only worth listening to, but actually compelling -
and beyond that clearly excellent -
then you are starting to "get" what being a Musician
is really all about.
It is nice to hear about the accomplishments of other
accordionists - I salute and respect all who care
enough to give their very best - but they do not
influence me in any way, shape or form as to how I
arrange or present music in performance.
let me repeat:
Theodore Kloba
> I'd like to hear you play (not
> really) Body & Soul with 3 chords. It is not always a matter of trying to
> impress everyone. It is a matter of standards which I set for myself.
I wasn't talking about "Body and Soul." It sounded like you were
implying that songs with only three chords are somehow inferior.
~Dream~
stevesaccordionshop wrote:
>
> That's a strange statement for a guy who does preprogramed MIDI
yes, I realise it is nearly impossible to convey these
concepts through words, or even recordings, which can
be manuipulated in the studio to no end...
but my entire philosophy is predicated upon "live performance"
Even as a youth, if a "live" album of a band was available
for purchase with the same songs as the "Studio" version,
I would always, without exception, purchase the "live" version.
My greatest respect has always been to the musicians who
were able to recreate, in performance, night after night,
a quality level equal to or exceeding their recordings.
MIDI is just another tool in my arsenal - a computing device
running MIDI files in real time as a substitute for a
Big Band, Quintet, or Rhythm unit and serving as a backdrop
for my lead is simply one means to an end.
But as far as things go in the big picture, I'll
make this statment:
I am willing to perform "In the Mood" live on Accordion
a: acoustically (reed sounds only)
b: electronically (reed and digital sounds)
c: full MIDI (using my MIDI background arrangement)
a: in competition with any individual musician, on
any instrument of their choosing
b: in competition with any individual or group
of musicians working without a Drummer
c: against any ensemble of musicians of any size and/or
instrumental composition whatsoever
and I will give at least as good as I get... guaranteed....
just lil' ol' me...
(for worthy charitable/fund-raising purposes,
if anyone cares to take me up for the fun of it )
Ciao Ventura
Mike Otterbine
Rock. ZZ Top maybe?
"Krazy Kanuk" <sask...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3ec6fb12$1...@news3.accesscomm.ca>...
> > The 'old' country-western, or the new country-rock?
> >
> > There's a big difference.
Helen P.
> > "elevator" music."
> Isn't that where the volume keeps going up and down over and over again?
> ;-)
Actually, just the reverse: some *&^#! fool has a finger on the "open door"
button the whole time. ;-)
-- Helen
Helen P.
> Each day they had it turned on for the offices, where we
> employees and contractors were the "captive audience".
> Thankfully, my PC had CDROM, so I was able to bring discs from home and
> listen on a headset, drowning out the music coming from the ceiling.
> Believe me, when used for something other than its intended purpose,
> Muzak-type service can be an instrument of the utmost torture :-)
Yes, that's an important consideration for the use of Muzak -- temporary
locations only. You're only in an elevator for seconds, and the music may
have some value in soothing or distracting some people who are
claustrophobic or otherwise nervous about using an elevator.
Trapping people where they can't escape from endlessly repeating musical
selections (*any* form or style) is horrid, however.
-- Helen
Helen P.
treble on an accordion, the musical dynamics are compromised. One can
compensate, yet never have *quite* the same level of control over the sound
versus one hand only.
> When's the last time you heard an accordionist play just a single note
> unaccompanied melody and you were just amazed by the wonderful
> phrasing and sound? This is a test that separates the men from the boys!
Actually, I do this fairly often, more so when I'm playing in a band than
when I'm solo. In fact, at a recent English Country Dance band practice, we
were trying out different combinations of instruments for various "solos"
within the sets. One such included piano, recorder (a rather quiet
instrument), and my piano accordion. All of us realy disliked the effect --
everyone agreed that it sounded too murky. So I just switched off the
bassoon reed, omitted the left hand, and we played again with me on just two
clarinet reeds. We all loved the sound, even though they couldn't figure
out what was different that time until I explained.
-- Helen
wondering if I'm among the men or the boys ;-)
sull...@aol.com (Tom Sullivan) wrote:
> > I think this depends on the player. I heard Eddie Montiero play with
> > a guitar player a while back- he was using a Midi box with the warmest
> > bass patch I've heard, and it sounded incredible, with neither one
> > stepping on the other. I have also heard Frank Marocco do work on his
> > left hand that would scare some bass players into leaving their axes
> > home!
"jonas aras" <jsa...@sbcglobal-123nospam.net> wrote:
> Both of these players have used left hand bass to great effect. However,
> the fact that one is playing two things at once, the phrasing of the right
> hand has to be compromised, particularly if you're playing acoustically.
> This is why Art Van Damme sounds a LOT like a clarinet or a saxophone.
His
> dynamic range is much more extreme than 99% of accordion players, which is
> one of the reasons his music swings so much.
>
> A drummer has a 100 to 1 ration between its softest and loudest sounds. A
> saxophone player probably has a 50 to 1 ratio between its softest note and
> its loudest note. A piano is maybe 20 to 1. The accordion proabably has
a
> greater dynamic range than a piano, but precious few take true advantage
of
> this possibility. It's tough enough just to nail the notes on the
> accordion, but for a great musical performance you must be able to go
beyond
> that. It's not enough to have a "clean" touch. You've got to be able to
> make a story out of every phrase and the entire song in general. Playing
> with relatively flat dynamics without "breaking the bellows" is the
accepted
> norm on the instrument (kinda like a Casio keyboard). This "flat" sound
is
> one of the reasons that most non-accordionist musicians really don't like
to
> listen to the accordion. The fact that somebody can hit the notes
> accurately is expected from every instrumentalist...whether or not you can
> get the listener involved in a drama....that's the mark of an artist. As
> you listen to a great singer, violinist, or saxophonist, one is captivated
> by just the sound. When's the last time you heard an accordionist play
just
> a single note unaccompanied melody and you were just amazed by the
wonderful
> phrasing and sound? This is a test that separates the men from the boys!
>
> I'll probably get flamed like crazy here, but this group should also be
> about how to further the instrument in every way possible.
>
> Cheers,
> Jonas
Helen P.
Looks like it really pushed some folks' buttons... ;-)
-- Helen
Krazy Kanuk
Sage, Eagles, Poco, Charlie Daniels, Pure Prairie League.....Once that sound
became more mainstream in the '80s, it degenerated to the lowest common
denominator and became schock which is where I regard the new "top-40"
country. However....as I previously stated....There is a whole alternative
country genre being produced which is independant of what the recording
company "suits" produce......Now just to keep on the topic of
accordions.....How 'bout those Riders in the Sky?
Len
--
You've recieved this message from beautiful Regina....The city whose name
rhymes with "fun"!!
"Mike Otterbine" <skweezb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3d98073c.0305...@posting.google.com...
Krazy Kanuk
> My greatest respect has always been to the musicians who
> were able to recreate, in performance, night after night,
> a quality level equal to or exceeding their recordings.
I agree and also am very impressed the rare time that a studio recording can
capture the excitement of a live performance. OTOH....I really appreciate
the clarity of a good production, studio or live.
> I am willing to perform "In the Mood" live on Accordion
>
> a: acoustically (reed sounds only)
> b: electronically (reed and digital sounds)
> c: full MIDI (using my MIDI background arrangement)
>
> a: in competition with any individual musician, on
> any instrument of their choosing
>
> b: in competition with any individual or group
> of musicians working without a Drummer
>
> c: against any ensemble of musicians of any size and/or
> instrumental composition whatsoever
>
> and I will give at least as good as I get... guaranteed....
> just lil' ol' me...
Wow!....I for one would sure like to hear you!....You must be pretty darn
good to be that confident. (I mean this in all sincerity, as I've developed
a respect for you over the last year while lurking and even recieving the
odd bit of very good advise from you)
Len
Theodore Kloba
known genre. Once those "suits" latch onto a catchy name ("alternative
country" included) it starts to lose its life.
Not that I'm into categories, but speaking of getting back to
accodtions, where would you place Sheryl Crow's accordion playing on
Johnny Cash's latest album?
On his last two albums, Cash has been including versions of songs well
out of the usual country realm, covering groups like Nine Inch Nails and
Depeche Mode. He's also collaborated with some alt-country artists like
Nick Cave and Will Oldham (one of my favorites).
Krazy Kanuk wrote:
> Well Mike...I'd classify country-rock as the '70's New Riders of the Purple
> Sage, Eagles, Poco, Charlie Daniels, Pure Prairie League.....Once that sound
> became more mainstream in the '80s, it degenerated to the lowest common
> denominator and became schock which is where I regard the new "top-40"
> country. However....as I previously stated....There is a whole alternative
> country genre being produced which is independant of what the recording
> company "suits" produce......Now just to keep on the topic of
> accordions.....How 'bout those Riders in the Sky?
> Len
>
--
Krazy Kanuk
> Not that I'm into categories, but speaking of getting back to
> accodtions, where would you place Sheryl Crow's accordion playing on
> Johnny Cash's latest album?
>
I haven't heard that one yet.....I'll definitely check it out though...
Len
Tom Sullivan
> > Ralph Stricker wrote:
> > > When Musak first came out with the idea of playing
> > > music in elevators, Dr's offices etc. They played
> > > great recordings.
>
> Michael J. Albanese responded...
> > That reminds me also of the earlier days of FM radio
> > and how good it was compared with today.
>
> Michael, if you've never heard Mike Agranoff's "The Sandman", you really
> should. He's a great storyteller. It's a spoken ballad, a yarn about the
> passing of FM's golden era. Even though Mike's ballad is about rock 'n
>
> /Jim Lucas
Not sure what "golden era" means (beyond the dfn of "whatever time
period that covered our own late teens and 20s")... golden era could
include my 55 Chev but in a side by side comparison to my 98 Olds
Bravada, nolstagia aside, it (55 Chev) doesn't hold a candle.
My own early experience with FM radio was late 60s, asked a car dealer
radio installer where I worked about FM, he said it wouldn't last ;-)
I then went to the junk yard and found one in a recent wreck and put
it in my 60 Chevy... can't remember what it played (probably alot of H
Mancini etc) but I do remember it was cool, actually impressed some of
my buds who only listened to am r&r.
g'day
tom sullivan
DoN. Nichols
~Dream~ <acco...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Hi,
[ ... ]
>But as far as things go in the big picture, I'll
>make this statment:
>
>I am willing to perform "In the Mood" live on Accordion
[ ... ]
>a: in competition with any individual musician, on
>any instrument of their choosing
Hmm ... it reminds me of a friend who plays it as something
which he collected in Bulgaria -- and he plays it on a Bulgarian bagpipe
(Guida (sp?) -- affectionately referred to as "the dead goat". :-) That
would be an interesting combination.
Unfortunately, he no longer lives in this area, so getting the
two of you together would be difficult.
I doubt that he would consider it a "competition", but rather as
an opportunity to explore interesting combinations.
Squeeze On,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Mike Otterbine
while everyone else dropped the 'W'.....Oh, and they also refuse to
cover Nine Inch Nails.
"Krazy Kanuk" <sask...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3eca8867$1...@news3.accesscomm.ca>...
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
>>Would it help if I said "I'll listen to country, I'll listen to
>>western, I won't listen to country-western"?
>
> What about Middle-Eastern? 8^)
Sure, but I haven't figured out how to play that on Anglo yet. (Though
there's this Balkan piece I should be practicing...)
--
Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
{} ASCII Ribbon Campaign | "may'ron DaroQbe'chugh vaj bIrIQbej" --
/\ Stamp out HTML mail! | "Put down the squeezebox & nobody gets hurt."
Helen P.
Len "Krazy Kanuk" <sask...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Wow!....I for one would sure like to hear you!....You must be pretty darn
> good to be that confident. (I mean this in all sincerity, as I've
developed
> a respect for you over the last year while lurking and even recieving the
> odd bit of very good advise from you)
He is. :-)
-- Helen
a lucky half an hour away
John C.
competition!
John C.
"Helen P." <le...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bagrut$bno$1...@slb9.atl.mindspring.net...
Macromed5
> "elevator" music."
Not much surprise.
Regards,
John Dowdell
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff
> Jim Lucas wrote:
> >>Would it help if I said "I'll listen to country, I'll listen to
> >>western, I won't listen to country-western"?
> >
> > What about Middle-Eastern? 8^)
>
> Sure, but I haven't figured out how to play that on Anglo yet.
So there IS an advantage to the English. >;)
(Okay, so I haven't played any *authentic* Middle-Eastern music on my
English -- however, my song Bazaar at Quar is distinctly middle-eastern
flavoured.)
Michelle Bottorff
Krazy Kanuk
privately? or do you have a link to a page with it? or a fake sheet etc.?
Len
--
You've recieved this message from beautiful Regina....The city whose name
rhymes with "fun"!!
"Boyd & Michelle Bottorff" <mbot...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:2003052218...@216.158.68.82.dragonbbs.com...
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff
Howdy, fellow Canukian. :)
> I for one would like to hear your song....anyway you can send me an mp3
> privately? or do you have a link to a page with it? or a fake sheet etc.?
> Len
Erg. I confess, I've mislead you. I was mostly trying to tease
keshlam, who I know from another group. "Bazaar at Quar" is a vocal
piece for at least four voices (SATB), not a concertina piece.
I can play any *one* of the vocal lines on my 'tina, maybe two, but not
all four simultaneously, and I have to transpose the bass. (Although,
with a 'tina consort.... hmmmm... DoN has a baritone, right? I've got
a tenor...)
But if after all these qualifiers you are still interested:
http://www.FreeMars.org/lavender/MIDI/bazaar.mid (midi file)
http://www.FreeMars.org/lavneder/myfilk.html#bazaar (lyrics/score)
I'm a filker, which means my songs tend to be... unconventional.
"Bazaar at Quar" is a bastard cross between The Arabian Nights and "Who
Will Buy This Wonderful Morning" from the Musical _Oliver!_ :)
Michelle Bottorff
(Lady Lavender)
DoN. Nichols
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff <mbot...@mac.com> wrote:
>Krazy Kanuk <sask...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Howdy, fellow Canukian. :)
>
>> I for one would like to hear your song....anyway you can send me an mp3
>> privately? or do you have a link to a page with it? or a fake sheet etc.?
>> Len
>
>Erg. I confess, I've mislead you. I was mostly trying to tease
>keshlam, who I know from another group. "Bazaar at Quar" is a vocal
>piece for at least four voices (SATB), not a concertina piece.
>I can play any *one* of the vocal lines on my 'tina, maybe two, but not
>all four simultaneously, and I have to transpose the bass. (Although,
>with a 'tina consort.... hmmmm... DoN has a baritone, right? I've got
>a tenor...)
My Baritone needs some work -- how about a contrabass? :-)
Bottom end is two octaves below a standard treble.
>But if after all these qualifiers you are still interested:
>http://www.FreeMars.org/lavender/MIDI/bazaar.mid (midi file)
>http://www.FreeMars.org/lavneder/myfilk.html#bazaar (lyrics/score)
Hmm ... I got the dreaded 404 on the second URL above, but was
able to back up (all the way to the bare comain) and find your page from
the top.
It shows on:
http://www.FreeMars.org/lavender/myfilk.html#bazaar
and you gave:
http://www.FreeMars.org/lavneder/myfilk.html#bazaar
I see no difference -- it may be that the web server does not
like coming into the middle of things?
In the meanwhile, it looks as though it should sound really nice
with a proper set of voices.
>I'm a filker, which means my songs tend to be... unconventional.
>"Bazaar at Quar" is a bastard cross between The Arabian Nights and "Who
>Will Buy This Wonderful Morning" from the Musical _Oliver!_ :)
Sounds like fun.
Dave Garland
wrote:
>http://www.FreeMars.org/lavender/myfilk.html#bazaar
>http://www.FreeMars.org/lavneder/myfilk.html#bazaar
>
> I see no difference
Sorry DoN, we're going to have to mark you wrong on that one. :)
Jim Lucas
> > I for one would like to hear your song ["Bazaar at
> > Quar"].... anyway you can send me an mp3 privately?
> > or do you have a link to a page with it? or a fake
> > sheet etc.?
Michelle Bottorff replied...
> Erg. I confess, I've mislead you. I was mostly trying
> to tease keshlam, who I know from another group.
> "Bazaar at Quar" is a vocal piece for at least four
> voices (SATB), not a concertina piece.
>
> I can play any *one* of the vocal lines on my 'tina,
> maybe two, but not all four simultaneously, and I have
> to transpose the bass. (Although, with a 'tina consort....
> hmmmm... DoN has a baritone, right? I've got a
> tenor...)
I don't think DoN has a baritone, but he does have a contrabass, which
starts an octave lower than a baritone. It should be fine on the bass
parts.
I have contrabass, bass (cello), baritone, tenor (viola), and of course
treble. You're all welcome to gather in my living room and use my
instruments to play an arrangement of B@Q -- or whatever else you like, --
but I'm afraid I'm not flush enough at the moment to subsidize your
transportation to Denmark. :-)
Once (in the dim & distant past) I helped organize a concertina quintet
for a performance at The Speakeasy, a folk establishment in NYC. We did
various arrangements on 1-5 concertinas, sometimes with help from friends
on other instruments, of pieces ranging from medieval to bop. It was
great fun!
/Jim Lucas
DoN. Nichols
Right you are. I just had to compare them with the computer to
be sure that there was a difference, and then I was finally able to find
it.
FWIW -- I didn't *type* either of those -- one was quoted from
the original posting, and the other was cut-and-paste from the browser's
"locator" bar once I finally found it.
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff
> >But if after all these qualifiers you are still interested:
> >http://www.FreeMars.org/lavender/MIDI/bazaar.mid (midi file)
> >http://www.FreeMars.org/lavneder/myfilk.html#bazaar (lyrics/score)
>
> Hmm ... I got the dreaded 404 on the second URL above, but was
> able to back up (all the way to the bare comain) and find your page from
> the top.
Sorry!
> > It shows on:
> http://www.FreeMars.org/lavender/myfilk.html#bazaar
> and you gave:
> http://www.FreeMars.org/lavneder/myfilk.html#bazaar
>
> I see no difference -- it may be that the web server does not
> like coming into the middle of things?
I typoed my own name. lavender, not lavneder. <sigh>
I shoulda done a copy and paste. I checked the midi link before
posting, and if I had got that right the other one had to be right
too... I thought. :(
>
> In the meanwhile, it looks as though it should sound really nice
> with a proper set of voices.
Thanks.
I've never actually heard it done.
Michelle Bottorff
(Lady Lavender)
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff
> I have contrabass, bass (cello), baritone, tenor (viola), and of course
> treble. You're all welcome to gather in my living room and use my
> instruments to play an arrangement of B@Q -- or whatever else you like, --
> but I'm afraid I'm not flush enough at the moment to subsidize your
> transportation to Denmark. :-)
Me either, but I wish I could. It sounds like a *lot* of fun.
Michelle Bottorff
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
> I can play any *one* of the vocal lines on my 'tina, maybe two, but not
> all four simultaneously, and I have to transpose the bass. (Although,
> with a 'tina consort.... hmmmm... DoN has a baritone, right? I've got
> a tenor...)
I've got a SATB or two which I'm hoping to re-arrange for Anglo, mostly
by playing two lines at a time and rotating through which ones I'm
playing, treating it as melody/countermelodies.
But, yeah, getting four hands on it would be another good solution. Mike
Agranoff's album _The_Modern_Folk_Musician_ includes a performance of
Bach's Double Concerto in Dm with concertinas replacing the violins.
(Hmmm. I just noticed that his cover art is recursive, which is entirely
appropriate.)
~Dream~
"In the Mood"
>
> Hmm ... it reminds me of a friend who plays it as something
> which he collected in Bulgaria -- and he plays it on a Bulgarian bagpipe
> (Guida (sp?) -- affectionately referred to as "the dead goat". :-)
> That would be an interesting combination. (DoN)
and certainly, the last music anyone would expect to hear
from an Accordion/Bagpipe "duo" would be Big Band...
which makes it so much more fun when you nail the music
and blow the audience away
Yeah, call me if he comes for a visit
Ciao Ventura
~Dream~
re-think it a bit... until now, I only had one
(my) point of view and opinion (gag) pretty much...
but there is more to it than I had thought.
A few days back had the pleasure of listening to a
couple sets from a "Quartet" out of one of the Military bands.
Now the music arrangements are all perfect, and are
completely neutered, and are brightly tempo'd to keep
us all alert - and of course the musicians can all
read like bears and have excellent technical chops.
The accordionist tried his best to make the most of the
material (and his companions)... mainly Showtunes...
taking over the middle chorus on most and
doing nice stuff - mainly "stock" runs and "generic"
embellishments (flawlessly executed) nice sounding but
also safe enough that if the Major walked in, he wouldn't
thrown our Box Man into the brig.
I listened in to peoples comments as I wandered the edge
of the crowd, and they mostly liked the music. A Pianist
I know who was also there dismissed it as having no emotion.
After the Accordionist noticed I was in the room, his
improv's changed, and he threw out the generic runs
and played... how can I say this so you'll understand...
he "played like Ralph" - OK? and the music was much
better for it.
The comments from the crowd didn't change, and I wonder
how many (or few) others were able to understand just
how excellent this musician was performing...
(though the two Violins and the Bass were still just
playing everything on the page note for boring note)
I could then understand more the comments on the NG
about "Mr. Rogers" and other stuff Audiences have
said to musicians... and see how they might
not be able to understand or percieve the difference
between musicians who are really doing some excellent
and interesting things, VS musicians and music that
really IS boring.
To me, I guess I will always equate the term "MUZAK"
with meaning "Music which has been Neutered"
of dynamics, emotion, thought, etc.
Three members of that quartet were playing "Muzak"
and one was playing "Real Book" ... and he tried to carry
them like Jordan tried to carry the Wizards last season...
PS: I'm not putting them down, by the way... playing
under orders you do as your told, the way you're told to do it.
You don't get to pick the arrangements and you don't
step (or play) out of line. That accordionist, when he's
doing music his way with musicians he likes is top shelf...
PSS: JC did play Accordion as a youth, but he was just
incredible on Piano. His chops were so good, a lot
of the "background music" for locally produced shows
in Pittsburgh (television) was him, live, in the shadows,
on that Grand Piano. If you had JC, you didn't need a
canned track. They even gave him a 15 minute spot/show
of his own for a few years in the afternoon...
not a word was said - just JC, the Piano, and 15
minutes of rivetingly good, wonderfully pleasant music.
I have some of the oversize 78rpm records cut in the TV studio
(1 off's) of some shows with him playing in my "collection"
Ciao Ventura
Frankmarocco
heard.If only your political views could be as sensible as your intellectual
prowess and sense of humor. We could be great friends.
Frank
Tom Sullivan
> The thoughts about "MUZAK" have caused me to
> re-think it a bit... until now, I only had one
> (my) point of view and opinion (gag) pretty much...
> but there is more to it than I had thought.
>
> I could then understand more the comments on the NG
> about "Mr. Rogers" and other stuff Audiences have
> said to musicians... and see how they might
> not be able to understand or percieve the difference
> between musicians who are really doing some excellent
> and interesting things, VS musicians and music that
> really IS boring.
>
> To me, I guess I will always equate the term "MUZAK"
> with meaning "Music which has been Neutered"
> of dynamics, emotion, thought, etc.
>
Maybe this only applies to us "guys", but it may be important to
remember that as far as I am concerned, there is only one shade on
white when it comes to painting the walls in my living room... but ask
any decorater (or most women) and you will get at least 16 various and
interesting shades of white. Now, I can tell the difference when side
by side but not individually.... or ask a fan of German road cars to
drive a Acura (let alone a Buick Century or a mini-van)and they will
go one for hours on how "Not a German road car" it is...
The same thing applies to all areas where we have experience, interest
and a knack for "performing".
I guess we could call it dumbing down or watering down but it is
really that some folks have more experience and knack for something
than others. We all have areas in our lives where we ourselves look
like a member of the unwashed masses.
I myself am thankful on a daily basis that I don't have perfect pitch
and am "guy" color blind. ;-)
Tom Sullivan
www.tomsullivanmusic.com
Helen P.
white-with-just-a-smidge-of-red-and-yellow-for-a-warm-look walls. ;-)
Actually, it's not a bad musical analogy. The reason I painted my whole
house interior "warm white" was because it (1) avoids dark, dingy-looking
rooms and (2) it actually acquires and reflects the colors from whatever
furnishings are in each room. I hope my playing with other musicians has
the same qualities!
-- that ditzy female
(with "unwashed masses" waiting in the laundry basket)
> ~Dream~ <acco...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> stuff Audiences have said to musicians... and see how they might not be
able to understand or percieve the difference between musicians who are
really doing some excellent and interesting things, VS musicians and music
that really IS boring.
Mike Maddux
says...
I only wish I knew who you were responding to so I could read the definition
you're talking about!
Best,
Mike
Frankmarocco
post about Muzak.
Frank
Gianluca Cangemi
But, I knew of a piece called "Elevator Music on Mars", by finnish composer
Tomi Räisänen.
You could find more inof on www.auralit.com .
G.