spray paint old accordion?
Mike M
have yellowed to dark yellow.
I'm thinking about using an automotive spray paint. I'll have to
carefully mask off the keys and such (keyboard axle stuck). Anybody
tried this? How would you prepare the existing surface? Sand the celluloid?
ike milligan
"Mike M" <M...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.11.25....@nospam.com...
ike milligan
buttons and remove the celluloid on the casing. In other words strip it.
Mike M
>> I'm working on an old Carmen PA. The finish is yellow, but parts of it
>> have yellowed to dark yellow.
>>
>> I'm thinking about using an automotive spray paint. I'll have to
>> carefully mask off the keys and such (keyboard axle stuck). Anybody
>> tried this? How would you prepare the existing surface? Sand the
>> celluloid?
>>
>>
> You would need to remove the celluloid.
Acetone?
I can remove everything but the keys. Keyboard axle stuck (but keyboard
works). Would have to carefully mask off the entire keyboard with a layer
of plastic.
Johann Pascher
but i dont know really.
Automotive spray paint could be suitable, i think you have to do your
own tests first.
Johann
Oompah
The one that did work I stripped all the celluloid off and put three coats
of primer on, sanding after each coat.
I used the epoxy paint that Triton boat uses to paint their boats. (One of
the painters at Triton gave me some of the extra paint they had at the end
of a run.)
Now that I am older an wiser, I leave the finishes alone. The yellowing and
wear are part of the attraction of vintage instruments. All the major guitar
manufactueres offer distressed guitars. New gitars that are made to look
old, used, and abused. And they charge a lot of money to do this.
Ricky,
Nashville, Tn.
Curmudgeon Exemplar
Mike M
> The one that did work I stripped all the celluloid off and put three coats
> of primer on, sanding after each coat.
>
How did you strip the celluloid off?
Oompah
>
> How did you strip the celluloid off?
>
Stripper". I don't know what is in it but I think it could take the chrome
off a trailer hitch ball. Without that I just used sandpaper. ( There was a
period in my life when I had a lot of extra time to kill. Sandpapering an
accordion was just about all the physical work I could do )
Ricky
ike milligan
"Oompah" <diets...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:gu0ah.3390$tM1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Monty [IIIIIII]
years, mostly in the 1960s and 70s. The last automotive paint job I did was
for my own vehicle about six years ago. I can tell you a few things about
automotive painting that might be relevant to accordions.
As I understand it, most older accordions are finished with a cellulose
derived material. Automobile lacquers (nitrocellulose) were very similar
chemically until the 1970s when acrylic and urethane polymers replaced
nitrocellulose. At that time it was possible to paint over nitrocellulose
with some forms of enamel (synthetic and acrylic) if surfaces were properly
prepared and suitable primers and sealers used. Each paint had specific
solvents and catalysts designed to promote the appropriate adhesion, flow,
gloss and hardness. All of these chemicals were (and are) quite toxic.
Hence many people, including myself, had to retire from that work for
reasons related to health.
In the three decades since then there have been dramatic changes in
automotive paints, supplies, and equipment. Many of these changes were made
to reduce health and environmental hazards. There are now water based
automotive paints and paints which are intended to be sprayed at much lower
pressure with far less release of volitile organic compounds (Low VOC).
Lacquers (both acrylic and cellulostic) required very potent solvents at
high concentrations of VOC and have been banned in many regions by
envioronmental agencies. Spray guns were also modified to adapt to new low
VOC paints. There have also been improvements in primers and sealers which
enable painter to cover some older paints without causing wrinkling, crazing
or other defects but the choices of products and procedures are quite
complex.
So, when you ask "Can an accordion be repainted with automotive paint
without stripping it?" the answer is probably yes, but with a lot of
qualification. The materials necessary to do this are available, but quite
expensive and require expertise. They are also pretty toxic to be using in
your garage, basement or kitchen. And the water based materials may raise
the grain on wood. So by the time you acquired all the necessary primers,
sealers, solvents, color coats, clear coats, spray equipment and necessary
protective gear (that is another complex subject) you will be spending a
lot of time and money to get set up for one accordion project. For example
I was going to repaint the hood (bonnet) on a used car ( a late model
Volkswagen) for a friend and found that the materials I would need would
cost nearly $200. I decided not to.
So what would I do with an accordion?
First I would acquire a charcoal filter breathing mask that protects against
organic vapors and some "rubber" gloves designed for paint stripping.
Then I would see if some solvent (acetone or lacquer thinner) would improve
the existing nitrocellulose finish, being careful not to get it on any
plastic parts you don't want to be etched or dissolved. (masking these parts
with a couple of layers of good quality masking tape can offer suitable
protection in most cases) By not being so careful I got some adhesive
remover on a clear plastic emblem on my accordion and turned it foggy.
Fortunately I was able to revive the finish and make it clear again with
some automotive rubbing compound. The point is you might be able to make
your accordion look pretty good with solvent and rubbing compound if done
carefully. You might end up with an antique "patina" in places but that
might add "character" to an older accordion. Of course that is a
subjective matter.
If you chose to repaint, I think you would be further ahead to disassemble
the accordion to separate those parts you want to refinish. If you knew a
place that did custom painting of automobiles or motorcycles, you might ask
them what they would charge to refinish it. Probably way to much, but worth
knowing. If you decide to do it yourself, you would probably want to strip
it down to the wood (assuming it is not a plastic body, otherwise strip to
the base plastic).
To strip an accordion I would use a chemical stripper rather than sandpaper.
There are lots of good paint strippers on the market available at any home
improvement center, hardware store or automotive painter's supply. The most
powerful strippers will quickly dissolve epoxy, acrylic, laquer. They are
also quite toxic so you need to protect yourself from skin contact and
breathing the vapors. Many clean up with water, but that may have
undesirable effects on the wood, so you should probably clean up the residue
of stripping with some ordinary paint thinner (white spirits) or lacquer
thinner.
To refinish you might be able acquire some "old fashioned" automotive
lacquer products if you don't live in California or some major cities with
air pollution restrictions. You could even brush on these old lacquers and
sand between coats as cars (and probably accordions) were finished in the
era before spray equipment. You could end up with a very deep laquered
finish that way. If the automotive supply doesn't have such products any
more, you may be able to find them at an artists supply. Or you may even
find some products that would work well available in pressurized spray cans
for hobby and model work. Whatever you choose, you might want to practice
with the products and procedures first on some similar wood, as I don think
you want to strip your accordion box a couple of times before you get your
technique down.
Or, if you have a friend in the auto painting business, you may be able to
get him/her to spray on some very exotic finish of urethane with a clear
coat. Obviously a custom motorcycle shop could do some very nice things
with an accordion box as well. And then of course there may be an accordion
repair person somewhere who has access to traditional accordion finishing
products and can do a very traditional finish for a reasonable cost.
Good luck with it.
Monty [IIIIIII]
"Mike M" <M...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.11.25....@nospam.com...
ike milligan
"Monty [IIIIIII]" <montysp...@hevanet.com> wrote in message
news:12mp78g...@corp.supernews.com...
nitrate would burn off very easily, in fact once ignited in one spot would
smolder and completely disintegrate over the area. Then sandpaper would be
used to get the carbon off. Frankly, I think that an accordion that wasn't
extremely ugly due to damage, should be left alone.
Monty [IIIIIII]
"ike milligan" <accord...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:P9gbh.4646$ql2....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>>
> I think the best way to strip an accordion would be by heat. The
> celluloid nitrate would burn off very easily, in fact once ignited in one
> spot would smolder and completely disintegrate over the area. Then
> sandpaper would be used to get the carbon off. Frankly, I think that an
> accordion that wasn't extremely ugly due to damage, should be left alone.
world over who would like to have all accordions burned. And rock music
stars might add it to their usual pyrotechnics. :)
But I agree this cellulose material would burn readily -- in fact that is
the way we often removed paint from an area of a car where we were about to
do metal repairs. However, with a metal substrate the fire would go out
immediately when the paint was consumed. From what you say, the burning
paint apparently doesn't create sufficient heat to ignite the wood substrate
of the accordion. On the other hand, given how many work shops are laden
with wood shavings, sawdust, solvents, paints, rags, glues, etc, (mine
included) I would recommend a thorough clean up before using this technique
to strip an accordion. Maybe in the yard with a garden hose handy would be
the best place to try this.
Monty