How long should a pop song be?
dmunsie
One day while dreaming I'm a real song writer, I realized the problems of
writing a song that may be too long for potential radio play. Doing some
research it would appear the typical pop song is around 3:40 in length. What
do you think the ideal length for a pop song should be? Another question is,
anyone know what the shortest radio song was? I remember a song called "Fish
Head" that was pretty short... :)
Richard Wilcox
Length 3:30 approx (don't do as I do do as I say - I have a DEMO in at over 6
minutes :-)
There is a story about a couple of guys who deliberately labelled all the songs
1 min 59 seconds (even if it was a bit longer) so radio stations would play it
leading up to the commercials, etc.
But, Dave, if you're thinking "net" what does it matter?
Richard
Songwriting & creative links
http://www.angelfire.com/music2/richhoncho/index.htm
A selection of RMMS people at
http://www.angelfire.com/music2/richhoncho/RMMS.htm
& 14 of my songs at
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/richhoncho.htm
dmunsie
news:20010909082414...@mb-ba.aol.com...
Hi Richard,
> http://www.angelfire.com/music2/richhoncho/index.htm
> A selection of RMMS people at
> http://www.angelfire.com/music2/richhoncho/RMMS.htm
> & 14 of my songs at
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/richhoncho.htm
>
>
> Length 3:30 approx (don't do as I do do as I say - I have a DEMO in at
over 6
> minutes :-)
Hey, me mum always told me that... :) Yah, it looks like the magic time is
anywhere from 3:15 to 3:45. I'm trying to keep my music at around the 3:30
mark.
>
> There is a story about a couple of guys who deliberately labelled all the
songs
> 1 min 59 seconds (even if it was a bit longer) so radio stations would
play it
> leading up to the commercials, etc.
Hmmm..makes sense. The shorter the "hit" probably the easier it is to fit it
in the rotation.
>
> But, Dave, if you're thinking "net" what does it matter?
> Richard
>
True, but I think when you are trying to write something that will appeal to
the masses, it's somewhat safe to stick to the existing cookie mold. :)
(Then there's the issue of how long it takes to download too..)
abot...@nationwide.net
dmunsie <dmu...@XREMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9nfj5...@enews2.newsguy.com...
Well, I remember a country song that got played a few times as a novelty
with the
entire lyrics of:
"this is the shortest song in the world"
I also remember another short song that was 26 seconds(or actually, it may
have
been the above song).
Actually, I'm not sure its the right question. I think the question should
be how long
should the DEMO be in that, once it gets to the artist stage, they might
decide to
put a one minute instrumental break in the middle. Myself, when a demo
gets past
the 3:30 level, a little red light starts going off in my brain.
Just glancing at the current edition of Billboard, they list the time of new
singles. A few
of them: U2's new single is listed at 3:42. Aaron Carter 3:17. Garbage
3:09, Nsync
4:22, Depeche Mode 3:39, Edwin McCain (adult contemporary) 4:20. I didn't
list titles because I didn't think they would mean anything since they are
new songs
nor is this meant to be any sort of representative sample.
I think there are hit songs in just about every format that run longer than
five minutes
as well.
PaulB
Chris
Which is why John Peel, always personally times all tracks, since he doesn't trust
those printed on records & CD's.
I think the consensus is around 3:30 then.
Yep I'm back. Hopefully chat to you Wednesday.
Chris
http://www.hairthieves.com
Richard Wilcox
>Which is why John Peel, always personally times all tracks, since he doesn't
>trust
>those printed on records & CD's.
>
You mean John Peel's Gopher, don't you?
Will now arrange for that promised jpeg.
Richard
Songwriting & creative links
Torch Singer
them up. Yum."
Great song! Barnes and Barnes. Used to hear it on Doctor Demento all the
time. :)
Cid
My Sites Links Page:
http://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/Cidzsites/
My Guestbook: http://cidsworld.cjb.net/
Chris
I saw a program about John Peel. Honest, he does it all himself......
Yeah, I mentioned the Jpeg again to the missus the other day. I'll try and sort
it out for Wednesday.
Now we've got everyone intrigued.
Chris
http://www.hairthieves.com
David Robinson
There was something on the country charts last year, a "One Minute Love
Song" or something like that. Very short. I don't usually pay much
attention to time or length when writing, but it does become a
consideration when I'm programming. 3:30 is my watermark; I won't
necessarily chop a song up if it's longer than 3 minutes 30 sec's, but I
might forgo 'another guitar solo' or an interlude or leave off the intro
if it isn't really creative and interesting. I might adjust the tempo a
little bit, too. 120 BPM is my normal tempo; 100 bars at 120 BPM comes
out to just a little under 3:30. (100 X 4 = 400 beats, divided by 120
BPM = 3.33, with the '.33' equaling about 20 seconds).
It also depends on what kind of thing I'm writing, too; orchestral
pieces usually run longer because there is more depth and development. A
guitar/band instrumental will tend to be shorter, because they are a
little faster and there isn't a lot of point to having long drawn out
turn-arounds and interludes--a guitar/band instrumental IS an interlude
(on my vocabulary, anyway).
So my answer to your question is "3 minutes, 30 seconds, not that
that means a whole lot. Any given song is either longer or shorter than
that."
David
Arty Smokes
"dmunsie" <dmu...@XREMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9nfj5...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> do you think the ideal length for a pop song should be?
Long enough for the hook to get into your head. Short enough for it not
to get boring. Including an intro and outro that a DJ would talk over,
you are looking at a total of 3 mins 40, but you should try and get all
the ideas into less than that. I tend to aim for 112 bars, no matter
what the tempo. (120 bars at 120bpm is four minutes).
--
Cheers, Arty ;-//)
Hear my tunes at: http://www.smokinmusic.co.uk
(Techno big beats in a disco stylee with Flash animations!)
Seth Jackson
For country radio, you're best off in the 3:00-3:15 range, but up to
3:30 is usually considered acceptable. Occasionally, you'll hear a
hit song that runs longer, but those are the exceptions. Pop radio
tends to allow slightly longer songs than country radio. I think you
can get away with songs up to 4:00 in pop.
I like to keep my songs shorter rather than longer whenever possible.
It's harder to write a short song than a long song. Telling the
complete story is easier if there's no limit on the number of words.
Cutting out all the fat while still telling the whole story is a
challenge.
I'm proud to say that, on my last demo session, I recorded what I'm
pretty sure is my shortest song to date. It clocks in at 2:18.
That's 2 verses, 2 choruses, and a bridge followed by a third chorus
and a tag.
- Seth Jackson
Jerry Garcia tribute: http://www.mp3.com/SethJackson
The music of Loudspeaker: http://www.musicbuilder.com/loudspeaker
Songwriting & Music Business Info: http://www.sethjackson.net
Andrew Bradley
> writing a song that may be too long for potential radio play. Doing some
> research it would appear the typical pop song is around 3:40 in length.
What
I've been giving this one quite a lot of thought lately. I think it is worth
thinking about keeping the length at about three minutes, but not because of
radio play, instead to minimise the internet download time. I think the
internet will be the defacto way to release a single (look at Dylan's Po'
Boy download).
An album I've been enjoying recently is ELO/Jeff Lynne's Zoom. Most of the
tracks are pretty short and they are all catchy and don't outstay their
welcome (if you like that kind of thing, and I know not everyone does).
Andrew
http://www.andrewbradley.co.uk (click on 'My Music' for some MP3s)
Irene Jackson
news:tppjink...@xo.supernews.co.uk...
> An album I've been enjoying recently is ELO/Jeff Lynne's Zoom. Most of the
> tracks are pretty short and they are all catchy and don't outstay their
> welcome (if you like that kind of thing, and I know not everyone does).
Hi Andrew...I just saw a story about Jeff Lynne yesterday...is this a "best
of" album or are they all new songs? As I watched the story, I realized how
many great songs he and ELO had :-)
Irene
Richard Wilcox
Dylan's Po Boy was just a lo-fi to get the punters interested in buying the
album.
Length is relative, depends on the song, the genre, the variation, the
audience, longest "hit" single in the UK now stands at 8 minutes, shortest at
less than 2 minutes, but for somebody trying to break in these days less that
3.30 sounds just fine.
Now somebody can prove me wrong ;(
Richard
>I've been giving this one quite a lot of thought lately. I think it is worth
>thinking about keeping the length at about three minutes, but not because of
>radio play, instead to minimise the internet download time. I think the
>internet will be the defacto way to release a single (look at Dylan's Po'
>Boy download).
>
>An album I've been enjoying recently is ELO/Jeff Lynne's Zoom. Most of the
>tracks are pretty short and they are all catchy and don't outstay their
>welcome (if you like that kind of thing, and I know not everyone does).
>
>Andrew
>http://www.andrewbradley.co.uk (click on 'My Music' for some MP3s)
>
>
>
>
>
Andrew Bradley
news:10001361...@news.islandnet.com...
It's all new stuff but it sounds a bit like a greatest hits album. Good old
fashioned pop music! There are some good ELO compilations, the double CD
Light Years is probably the best bet, this contains all of the singles as
far as I know.
Andrew
Irene Jackson
Cool...I'll have to check them out...thanks Andrew :-)
Irene
Watson Davis
There was a time when I was taking a look at the lengths of various
songs and stuff. I was surprised at the time how short most of ZZ
Top's songs were. Some of their CD's are barely 30 minutes of music.
Watson (the ninja of nice) Davis