Why I hate popular m
Don Holmes
> I've started listening less critically to the alterna-station
> (and others), taking to heart the Blues Traveler maxim, "No
> matter what the waitress brings, I will drink it and always be
> full." Hey, I can even appreciate the new Alanis-- she's got
> some solid phrasing in there, and the message ain't too bad,
> either.
A >There ya go - you're beginning to see why I think she's more than just
A >fickle flavor of the month. I'm curious now to see if she grows, or if
A >she's given us all she's got. As for Blues Traveller, I appreciate the
A >chops and the ironic self-deprecation to a point, but I've heard that s
A >zippy harp solo and empty cleverness in every song; I'm still waiting t
A >find out why I should care.
70's minor-majors like Leonard Skynard are selling out stadiums.
Meanwhile the whiny schoolgirl poets, while selling records, can't
even fill small rooms. To me that's proof that Pop music has gotten
steadily worse over the last 20 years. Actually, it probably peaked
in 1967.
---
* WR [NR] * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
Scott Burright
On 18 Jun 1996, Don Holmes wrote:
> 70's minor-majors like Leonard Skynard are selling out stadiums.
> Meanwhile the whiny schoolgirl poets, while selling records, can't
> even fill small rooms. To me that's proof that Pop music has gotten
> steadily worse over the last 20 years. Actually, it probably peaked
> in 1967.
You could be right, and I've argued in the past that nothing
produced today stands up to the stuff that came out of Motown and the
British Invasion. But, yet, still--- popularity, measured in number of
stadiums filled, is hardly a measure of how "good" music is. What you
have here is known as a "bandwagon argument," and while your conclusion
might be true, I don't quite follow how you got there. Also, I'd
challenge your premise: Whiny schoolgirl poets aren't drawing like the
shambling, re-animated corpse of Lynyrd Skynyrd? I know Alanis is playing
three sold-out nights in arenas around here, so I'd like a look at tour
grosses before I decide that.
Anyhow, Alanis et. al. whiny waifs are OK, but I'll take Otis Redding over
them any day, and on that, I'm sure we agree.
Scott Burright
Networked Information Resources Librarian
Wright State University
Dayton, OH 45435
513-873-2689
"In an age that has nothing to say, the loudspeaker has been invented."
--Bernard Shaw
Don Holmes
SB>British Invasion. But, yet, still--- popularity, measured in number of
SB>stadiums filled, is hardly a measure of how "good" music is. What you
SB>have here is known as a "bandwagon argument," and while your conclusion
SB>might be true, I don't quite follow how you got there. Also, I'd
"Good" and "bad" can't be proved either way, but apparently people
won't spend the big bucks to see amateurs (in MY opinion) that they
will to see tired old pros.
AFC PeterS
Don Holmes writes:
> 70's minor-majors like Leonard Skynard (sic) are selling out
> stadiums. Meanwhile the whiny schoolgirl poets, while selling
> records, can't even fill small rooms. To me that's proof that
> Pop music has gotten steadily worse over the last 20 years.
> Actually, it probably peaked in 1967.
I wasn't aware that "whiny schoolgirl poets" (e.g., Alanis Morissette)
were having trouble selling tickets, but if it's so, I'd pin it on
economics - kids don't have the disposable cash that the boomers have for
concert tickets. I certainly don't accept it as proof that pop music is
any worse now than it ever was. Yeah, I miss the Beatles, too, but this
idea that the '60s were the peak of pop has gotten pretty old, in my book.
Peter Stoller
Christopher Bennett
Jim Andrews (and...@eden.com) wrote:
: In article <4qbo6c$k...@boris.eden.com>, and...@eden.com (Jim Andrews) wrote:
: > best stuff of today. Now, if you want to get out of the big sellers,
: > and into the fringe, the argument takes on many different shades,
: Speaking of the fringe, has anyone here ever heard Tonio K? VERY cool band.
: "Bring your own lampshade, | Jim Andrews
: somewhere there's a party" | MBT, Inc.
: | Basset Sound
: The Replacements | The Fidgets
I don't think that Tonio K is a band, but a person. A very good
songwriter, he is.
Don Holmes
A >I wasn't aware that "whiny schoolgirl poets" (e.g., Alanis Morissette)
A >were having trouble selling tickets, but if it's so, I'd pin it on
A >economics - kids don't have the disposable cash that the boomers have f
Yes, that's true. But apparently lots of these Gen-Xers are going
to see the 70's groups.
A >concert tickets. I certainly don't accept it as proof that pop music is
A >any worse now than it ever was. Yeah, I miss the Beatles, too, but this
A >idea that the '60s were the peak of pop has gotten pretty old, in my bo
Yeah, it's an old idea, but it gets truer every passing year,
unfortunately. I remember back in 73 people were saying that the
"next big thing" would happen in 74 because Sinatra came in 44, Elvis
in 54, the Beatles in 64, so every ten years there was a next big
thing. Maybe in 2004? :)
Keith Cowgill
On 20 Jun 1996 00:04:47 -0400, afcp...@aol.com (AFC PeterS) wrote:
>>Don Holmes writes:
>>...To me that's proof that
>> Pop music has gotten steadily worse over the last 20 years...
>
>...I certainly don't accept it as proof that pop music is
>any worse now than it ever was. Yeah, I miss the Beatles, too, but this
>idea that the '60s were the peak of pop has gotten pretty old, in my book...
I know that in the past I have made some long-drawn-out observations
on American culture that may have seemed to suggest a belief that pop
music is on the decline. I was addressing specific concerns (which I
still wonder about).
But--in general--I think much of pop music is far better now than it
was ten years ago, and continually improving. In fact, I sometimes
think I see a parallel between now and that period of time around the
late '60s/early '70s when A&R folks who were used to dealing with
Mitch Miller were running around signing up every Blue Cheer and Moby
Grape they could get their hands on. Yes, there was a lot of crap,
but also avenues for exposure that talented, quirky acts wouldn't have
had in earlier, tighter markets.
I think much of the same thing is happening now due to the so-called
alternative market. I don't know if people like the Liz Phair and
Crash Test Dummies would have had a chance in a Toto/Air
Supply/Boston-dominated market. I doubt it. But they do now. Is it
possible, that instead of getting worse, pop music is actually have a
little renaissance?
Don Holmes
A >1. Lynyrd Skynyrd was most definitely "major". What they've
Ok, they were major, but they weren't Elton John, Queen, Styx,
Queen, Supertramp, David Bowie, Credence Clearwater or anything
of that magnitude. They had a hit once in awhile if I recall (and
nothing I really thought was that good either).
A >3. Pop has gotten steadily WORSE over the last 20 years? You must not
A > not define pop the way I do. To me it sure has improved. At least
What's on the radio is how I define Pop, which is more or less
synonymous with Rock.
A > now you don't HAVE to have Toto-chops to be heard. It's OK
That's for certain!
A > to just have something to say (see Nirvana, who will most
Having something to say and saying it well are two different
things.
Too bad you don't remember the 60's. Nearly every high school
in the country had a band that did original material and was
as good as or better than Nirvana. When I first heard my niece's
Grunge records I almost had a fit laughing! It was total
re-run, but re-run of the amateurs.
I think in my high school the band was called Bigfoot.
A > definitely join the Beatles & Stones in God's Top 10).
That's not even funny as a joke.
A > Late 70's: Boston, Foreigner, Toto, The Cars, DISCO
Disco is a pretty big field. What about the Bee Gees? What's
the grunge equivalent of the song Nights on Broadway? No, don't
tell me, I'll puke.
Tom Petty, David Bowie, Meatloaf, Kansas, Genesis, Fleetwood Mac,
Queen, Styx, Supertramp... Van Halen (ha ha)
A > Early 80's: The Cars, The Police, Flock of Seagulls,
A > Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Duran Duran,
A > Pat Benatar, Michael Jackson, Cheap Trick
Genesis, Eurythmics, Billy Idol, Joe Jackson, Journey, U2, David
Bowie, plus a buncha great one-hit groups like Dexie's Midnight
Runners. Let's skip to the 90s.
A > Mid 90's: Nirvana, REM, Cracker, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden,
A > Metallica, Counting Crows, Alanis, Green Day
Above says it all. Counting Crows and REM are the only good ones
in the bunch that I've heard of.
A > Add and subtract as you wish, but if you want to trade Foreigner
A > and Duran Duran for Nirvana and Counting Crows, well then, you
A > just go right ahead. You don't see a trend here? You don't see
A > content taking at least SOME precedence over style?
Counting Crows is good. I like what they did with the Van Morrison
style. They may have run out of steam though.
Everything I've heard of Nirvana was all style and no substance,
just like Generation X. I wish I could get paid for copping an
attitude.
A > I happen to think that The Cars and The Police both helped set
A > a real high standard, but the rest of the big-selling dreck
A > between 1976 and 1990 is largely crap compared to some of the
A > best stuff of today. Now, if you want to get out of the big selle
Getting out Dad's records from the 60s and doing amateurish
imitations of them is not my idea of greatness.
Jim Andrews
Jim Andrews
In article <000027E3...@nashville.com>,
don.h...@nashville.com (Don Holmes) wrote:
>
>70's minor-majors like Leonard Skynard are selling out stadiums.
>Meanwhile the whiny schoolgirl poets, while selling records, can't
>even fill small rooms. To me that's proof that Pop music has gotten
>steadily worse over the last 20 years.
Well, I've got a few problems with this, Don!
1. Lynyrd Skynyrd was most definitely "major". What they've
toured with lately isn't, for obvious reasons, but that's beside
the point. And the fact that they're selling out stadiums
(are they?) says to me that they are probably finding 50,000
baby boomers per city that have enough cash to buy themselves one
more Arena Rock Experience. So what? Good for them . . .
2. Whiny schoolgirl poets? Yes, there has been an explosion of
sorts of female singers, both bands and solo. Some of them
whine. Some of them sell like the bejeezus (Alanis, perhaps
Garbage, Poe, Jewel, Natalie, etc.) and some don't. I assure you
that The Artiste Currently Known As Alanis Morrisette is not
having any problem selling tickets. The kids gotta have their
angst, you know?
3. Pop has gotten steadily WORSE over the last 20 years? You must not
not define pop the way I do. To me it sure has improved. At least
now you don't HAVE to have Toto-chops to be heard. It's OK
to just have something to say (see Nirvana, who will most
definitely join the Beatles & Stones in God's Top 10).
Let's jump in the Big Seller Wayback Machine for a moment and
see what I can dredge up from the cobwebs . . .
Late 70's: Boston, Foreigner, Toto, The Cars, DISCO
Early 80's: The Cars, The Police, Flock of Seagulls,
Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Duran Duran,
Pat Benatar, Michael Jackson, Cheap Trick
Mid 80's: The Police, Michael Jackson, LoverBoy,
Glass White Lion-Tiger, Madonna, Phil Collins,
Prince
Late 80's: Madonna, Don Henley, Phil Collins, REM,
10K Maniacs, They Might Be Giants, Guns
& Roses, Poison & Big Hair R Us, Sting
Early 90's: Sting, Nirvana, REM, 10K Maniacs, Cracker,
Pearl Jam, Guns & Roses, Metallica
Mid 90's: Nirvana, REM, Cracker, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden,
Metallica, Counting Crows, Alanis, Green Day
Add and subtract as you wish, but if you want to trade Foreigner
and Duran Duran for Nirvana and Counting Crows, well then, you
just go right ahead. You don't see a trend here? You don't see
content taking at least SOME precedence over style?
I happen to think that The Cars and The Police both helped set
a real high standard, but the rest of the big-selling dreck
between 1976 and 1990 is largely crap compared to some of the
best stuff of today. Now, if you want to get out of the big sellers,
and into the fringe, the argument takes on many different shades,
but I don't see how you can say "pop" (i.e., popular) music has
gotten steadily worse. It's just gotten a lot less pompous.
Of course, opinions are like assholes, and I certainly have both.
Asbestos suit ON . . .
Seth Jackson
afcp...@aol.com (AFC PeterS) wrote:
>Don Holmes writes:
>> 70's minor-majors like Leonard Skynard (sic) are selling out
>> stadiums. Meanwhile the whiny schoolgirl poets, while selling
>> records, can't even fill small rooms. To me that's proof that
>> Pop music has gotten steadily worse over the last 20 years.
>> Actually, it probably peaked in 1967.
>I wasn't aware that "whiny schoolgirl poets" (e.g., Alanis Morissette)
>were having trouble selling tickets, but if it's so, I'd pin it on
>economics - kids don't have the disposable cash that the boomers have for
>concert tickets. I certainly don't accept it as proof that pop music is
>any worse now than it ever was. Yeah, I miss the Beatles, too, but this
>idea that the '60s were the peak of pop has gotten pretty old, in my book.
I sometimes feel very critical of today's music, only now, when I find
myself thinking that today's stuff is crap and they don't make good
music anymore like they did when I was a kid, I realize that this is
exactly the same line I used to hear from my parents, and most likely
the same line they heard from their parents. I think it's safe to say
that today's music is different from the music of past generations,
and it reflects what's going on in today's world just as "our" music
was a reflection of our world at the time.
--
Seth Jackson
Seth Jackson's Songwriting Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/speaker
Songwriting and the Music Business, plus the Online "Country Notes" for the Los Angeles area
Don Holmes
K >But--in general--I think much of pop music is far better now than it
K >was ten years ago, and continually improving. In fact, I sometimes
K >think I see a parallel between now and that period of time around the
K >late '60s/early '70s when A&R folks who were used to dealing with
K >Mitch Miller were running around signing up every Blue Cheer and Moby
K >Grape they could get their hands on. Yes, there was a lot of crap,
K >but also avenues for exposure that talented, quirky acts wouldn't have
K >had in earlier, tighter markets.
K >I think much of the same thing is happening now due to the so-called
K >alternative market. I don't know if people like the Liz Phair and
K >Crash Test Dummies would have had a chance in a Toto/Air
K >Supply/Boston-dominated market. I doubt it. But they do now. Is it
K >possible, that instead of getting worse, pop music is actually have a
K >little renaissance?
Yes, there is a little renaissance, and that's what dismays me. I
liked the little renaissance of the early 80's a lot more than this
one. The level of intelligence in that one was much higher, perhaps
because it was more British. I agree that there's a little
renaissance going on, but it's such a step backwards, probably
thanks to grunge. Grunge really seemed to open the floodgates for
the parade of amateurs.
-Don
Don Holmes
A >from the Beatles on. If you think that Nirvana was on par
A >with a bunch of high school bands from the 60s, then I think
A >you're either sadly deluded, or I wanna hear those bands!
Good luck, as most were never recorded. They weren't that good
compared to what else was out there. They were a notch or two
below groups like Moby Grape, 13th Floor Elevators, Blue Cheer,
It's A Beautiful Day, Sweetwater, HP Lovecraft -- hell I can't
remember all the damn groups there were back then.
A >It's no joke -- we just disagree. I think Nirvana is the single
A >most important band of the last twenty years. I only limit
A >them to that because Led Zeppelin was still valid before then.
I haven't heard a lot of Nirvana. Every now and then I'll hear
something on VH-1 or something, and so far the only thing I've
liked is the David Bowie cover, "The Man Who Sold The World."
Every now and then they have a catchy piece of melody, it's true,
but a lot of the stuff I've heard had an amateurish tone --
you know, the kind of songs Suzy writes 6 months after getting
her first guitar. Couldn't make out too much of the lyrics
to see whether they added up to anything.
A >place where we disagree. Meatloaf, Kansas, most Genesis, any
A >Fleetwood Mac past "Rumours", Styx, a lot of Supertramp, and
A >ELO and ELP do NOT help the era's "quality" argument, IN MY OPINION.
Yeah, I forgot about ELO! They were fantastic! And Jethro Tull!
And Hall & Oates (top 10 writers, but you have to admit they were
good). There were just so darn many great songwriting acts in
the 70s, and they paled in comparison to the renaissance of the 60s,
although the groups in the 70s were more polished.
A >Now I could listen to Joe Jackson for hours. And of course Elvis Coste
A >Some Eurythmics, some U2 (I knew I had left out a huge one), a little B
A >Idol, but Journey? Dreck.
I don't know how I forgot Elvis Costello! I never liked Journey either,
but they wrote catchy tunes and their songs held up pretty well.
A >I think "Nevermind" will be the definitive album of the decade.
A >Style and no substance? Crimony, the thing DRIPS will all the
A >reasons kids turn to junk and suicide nowadays. It isn't pretty,
A >but I defy you to show me ONE of your "high school bands" than
A >could have touched them. You can't, because they didn't exist.
A >If they DID exist, why did drivel like Jefferson Airplane sell
A >zillions and these so-called supergroups in study hall just
A >faded away? We really got robbed if you're right . . .
I haven't heard Nevermind. I'll check it out. Meanwhile you have
to check out Surrealistic Pillow before you condemn the Airplane.
>A > I happen to think that The Cars and The Police both helped set
>A > a real high standard, but the rest of the big-selling dreck
>A > between 1976 and 1990 is largely crap compared to some of the
>A > best stuff of today. Now, if you want to get out of the big s
>
>Getting out Dad's records from the 60s and doing amateurish
>imitations of them is not my idea of greatness.
A >Don, it's official: You're old. The Police are doing amateurish
A >copies of who? We'll leave The Cars out of it, because they're
Not the Police, the "best stuff of today" is what I was referring
to. No, the Police were great.
Ram Samudrala
Don Holmes (don.h...@nashville.com) wrote:
>Too bad you don't remember the 60's. Nearly every high school in the
>country had a band that did original material and was as good as or
>better than Nirvana.
That's true today as well. And I'd add "nearly every garage". And
you know what, everyone of them have (or had for the last 6 years or
so) the potential to make millions of dollars. And Nirvana is
credited with "opening that door", rightly or wrongly.
Personally, I've not come across many bands that have the sheer
intensity and aggressiveness of Nirvana's Bleach (their first album).
>A > Mid 90's: Nirvana, REM, Cracker, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden,
>A > Metallica, Counting Crows, Alanis, Green Day
>Above says it all. Counting Crows and REM are the only good ones
>in the bunch that I've heard of.
In a gross musical sense, they're really not that different (though
Metallica's Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets had something
special). I don't think there's any real reason to prefer Counting
Crows over Cracker, or Green Day over Alanis. (They all bore me.)
But I don't think Foreigner is any "better" than Cracker, or Bob
Seger is "better" than Green Day or ZZ Top is "better" than "Pearl
Jam". While I'd probably go see ZZ Top over Pearl Jam if I had a
choice, it's mainly because I grew up to that drivel.
--Ram
m...@ram.org || http://www.ram.org || http://www.twisted-helices.com/th
TOTAL CRIMIMALIZATION was the greatest idea of its time and was vastly
popular except with those people who didn't want to be crooks or outlaws.
So, of course, they had to be TRICKED INTO IT... which is one of the
reasons why MUSIC was eventually made ILLEGAL. ---Frank Zappa
Jim Andrews
In article <000027E3...@nashville.com>,
don.h...@nashville.com (Don Holmes) wrote:
>Too bad you don't remember the 60's. Nearly every high school
>in the country had a band that did original material and was
>as good as or better than Nirvana. When I first heard my niece's
>Grunge records I almost had a fit laughing! It was total
>re-run, but re-run of the amateurs.
Well, like I said, opinions and all. Although I was a toddler
in the mid-60s, I have been an avid record collector since about
1973, and I'd like to think I'm pretty familiar with most music
from the Beatles on. If you think that Nirvana was on par
with a bunch of high school bands from the 60s, then I think
you're either sadly deluded, or I wanna hear those bands!
>A > (see Nirvana, who will most definitely join the
Beatles & Stones in God's Top 10).
>
>That's not even funny as a joke.
It's no joke -- we just disagree. I think Nirvana is the single
most important band of the last twenty years. I only limit
them to that because Led Zeppelin was still valid before then.
I don't happen to like LZ, but they were obviously pretty damn
influential. As is Nirvana. Now if you want to talk grunge,
you're not going to get any argument from me. With the possible
exception of Pearl Jam, I cannot stand All Things Grunge. But
Nirvana ain't grunge -- they just spawned a bunch of imitators
that couldn't pull off the pop half of their sound. Hence grunge.
>Tom Petty, David Bowie, Meatloaf, Kansas, Genesis, Fleetwood Mac,
>Queen, Styx, Supertramp... Van Halen (ha ha)
Yes, of course I left out some big ones. But if you want to put
the songwriting craft (the "pop") of Meatloaf and Kansas in the
same category as Petty, Bowie, and Queen, well then there's another
place where we disagree. Meatloaf, Kansas, most Genesis, any
Fleetwood Mac past "Rumours", Styx, a lot of Supertramp, and
ELO and ELP do NOT help the era's "quality" argument, IN MY OPINION.
>A > Early 80's: The Cars, The Police, Flock of Seagulls,
>A > Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Duran Duran,
>A > Pat Benatar, Michael Jackson, Cheap Trick
>
>Genesis, Eurythmics, Billy Idol, Joe Jackson, Journey, U2, David
>Bowie, plus a buncha great one-hit groups like Dexie's Midnight
>Runners. Let's skip to the 90s.
Now I could listen to Joe Jackson for hours. And of course Elvis Costello.
Some Eurythmics, some U2 (I knew I had left out a huge one), a little Billy
Idol, but Journey? Dreck.
>Everything I've heard of Nirvana was all style and no substance,
>just like Generation X. I wish I could get paid for copping an
>attitude.
I think "Nevermind" will be the definitive album of the decade.
Style and no substance? Crimony, the thing DRIPS will all the
reasons kids turn to junk and suicide nowadays. It isn't pretty,
but I defy you to show me ONE of your "high school bands" than
could have touched them. You can't, because they didn't exist.
If they DID exist, why did drivel like Jefferson Airplane sell
zillions and these so-called supergroups in study hall just
faded away? We really got robbed if you're right . . .
>A > I happen to think that The Cars and The Police both helped set
>A > a real high standard, but the rest of the big-selling dreck
>A > between 1976 and 1990 is largely crap compared to some of the
>A > best stuff of today. Now, if you want to get out of the big selle
>
>Getting out Dad's records from the 60s and doing amateurish
>imitations of them is not my idea of greatness.
Don, it's official: You're old. The Police are doing amateurish
copies of who? We'll leave The Cars out of it, because they're
certainly a derivative of lots of great 60s pop, but they're a
GOOD derivative.
Seth Jackson
don.h...@nashville.com (Don Holmes) wrote:
>A >1. Lynyrd Skynyrd was most definitely "major". What they've
>Ok, they were major, but they weren't Elton John, Queen, Styx,
>Queen, Supertramp, David Bowie, Credence Clearwater or anything
>of that magnitude. They had a hit once in awhile if I recall (and
>nothing I really thought was that good either).
"Free Bird" is a rock classic, and was one of the megahits of its
time. Lynyrd Skynyrd was definitely a major.
>A >3. Pop has gotten steadily WORSE over the last 20 years? You must not
>A > not define pop the way I do. To me it sure has improved. At least
>What's on the radio is how I define Pop, which is more or less
>synonymous with Rock.
That's a rather narrow view of Pop music. There's a lot of music on
the radio that isn't Rock. A lot of that music even sells.
>A > Mid 90's: Nirvana, REM, Cracker, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden,
>A > Metallica, Counting Crows, Alanis, Green Day
>Above says it all. Counting Crows and REM are the only good ones
>in the bunch that I've heard of.
Correction. Counting Crows and REM are the only ones in that bunch
that you like. That doesn't mean they're the only good ones. One
should be careful to state opinions as opinions and not as facts.
>Everything I've heard of Nirvana was all style and no substance,
>just like Generation X.
Ah, so the root of the problem is that an entire generation is no
good. I see. Kids today.
> I wish I could get paid for copping an
>attitude.
I imagine you'd command quite a salary.
Seth Jackson
don.h...@nashville.com (Don Holmes) wrote:
>A >from the Beatles on. If you think that Nirvana was on par
>A >with a bunch of high school bands from the 60s, then I think
>A >you're either sadly deluded, or I wanna hear those bands!
>Good luck, as most were never recorded. They weren't that good
>compared to what else was out there. They were a notch or two
<snip>
>I haven't heard a lot of Nirvana. Every now and then I'll hear
>something on VH-1 or something, and so far the only thing I've
<snip>
>her first guitar. Couldn't make out too much of the lyrics
>to see whether they added up to anything.
You seem to have a rather strong opinion about the merit of Nirvana's
music, and yet it seems you don't really know a heck of a lot about
it. Interesting.
Don Holmes
S >You seem to have a rather strong opinion about the merit of Nirvana's
S >music, and yet it seems you don't really know a heck of a lot about
S >it. Interesting.
Why does _The_Speaker_ find this interesting?
I've heard 4 or 5 of their most popular songs on TV and radio. I've
never bought their albums, as I only do that if I hear something
on the radio that I like. I've heard one Pearl Jam album all the
way through, but I don't remember what it was called.
You'll find I have strong opinions on just about everything to do
with music. But I don't take myself seriously enough to way every
word I utter. I probably should do that ... certainly would do that
... if I were ... _THE_ _SPEAKER_
---
* WR [NR] * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
Jim Andrews
In article <000027E3...@nashville.com>,
don.h...@nashville.com (Don Holmes) wrote:
>A >I think "Nevermind" will be the definitive album of the decade.
>A >Style and no substance? Crimony, the thing DRIPS will all the
>A >reasons kids turn to junk and suicide nowadays. It isn't pretty,
>A >but I defy you to show me ONE of your "high school bands" than
>A >could have touched them.
>
>I haven't heard Nevermind. I'll check it out. Meanwhile you have
>to check out Surrealistic Pillow before you condemn the Airplane.
You've heard Nevermind. You must have -- you couldn't escape
"Smells Like Teen Spirit" if you lived in a Tibet monestery.
But it's a deal -- you buy Nevermind and I'll buy Surrealistic Pillow.
We'll compare notes!
>
>Not the Police, the "best stuff of today" is what I was referring
>to. No, the Police were great.
Whew! I was gettin' worried there for a minute. I'd stop writing
songs today if I could crank out just one "Walking On The Moon" or
"Message In A Bottle".
And you know what, Don? We completely left out Squeeze (and for
that matter, Split Enz) in our topology of the last 20 years.
Doh!
Seth Jackson
and...@eden.com (Jim Andrews) wrote:
>If they DID exist, why did drivel like Jefferson Airplane sell
>zillions and these so-called supergroups in study hall just
>faded away? We really got robbed if you're right . . .
Whoa! I agreed with most of what you said, but the Airplane = drivel?
I think not.
Seth Jackson
don.h...@nashville.com (Don Holmes) wrote:
>S >You seem to have a rather strong opinion about the merit of Nirvana's
>S >music, and yet it seems you don't really know a heck of a lot about
>S >it. Interesting.
>You'll find I have strong opinions on just about everything to do
>with music. But I don't take myself seriously enough to way every
>word I utter. I probably should do that ... certainly would do that
>... if I were ... _THE_ _SPEAKER_
Is this supposed to be an insult of some kind? If so, I don't get it.
It's not necessary to explain it. Let's do out best to avoid a flame
war.
I admit I shouldn't have added that little jibe at the end of my post.
My point was that while independent thinking and strong opinions are a
great thing in some instances, it's often not such a good thing when
one has a weak factual basis for one's strong opinion. When one argues
vehemently on points where the facts don't support the opinion, it
crosses the line from independent thinking into the realm of blind
rigidity.
Myles Wakeham
>I wasn't aware that "whiny schoolgirl poets" (e.g., Alanis Morissette)
>were having trouble selling tickets, but if it's so, I'd pin it on
>economics - kids don't have the disposable cash that the boomers have for
>concert tickets. I certainly don't accept it as proof that pop music is
>any worse now than it ever was. Yeah, I miss the Beatles, too, but this
>idea that the '60s were the peak of pop has gotten pretty old, in my book.
She is selling out stadiums. You can't get tickets in major cities for her
shows.
Myles
Scott Burright
Yeah, well... In my town, Leo Kottke and Junior Brown both played a
200-seat venue that charged ten bucks on the door, while
Flavor-of-the-Minute bands were selling out the arena at three times the
price. Therefore, I just can't see *any* relationship between ticket
sales and "amateur" or "pro" musicianship. Am I missing something here?
Scott Burright
Networked Information Resources Librarian
Wright State University
Dayton, OH 45435
513-873-2689
"Everything sticks until it goes away
And the truth is we don't know anything"
--They Might Be Giants
Don Holmes
> when it comes to sheer competence, I think Blues Traveller
> pretty much blows the rest of the "commercial alternative"
> playlist clean off the air.
A >Maybe, but I doubt you of all people want to be in the position of
A >defending sheer competence as a measure of quality.
With pop music as bad as it now is, why criticize Blues Traveller,
one of the better artists out there? Way better than Hootie
and Blowhards.
-Don
AFC PeterS
Don Holmes writes:
> With pop music as bad as it now is, why criticize Blues
> Traveller, one of the better artists out there? Way better
> than Hootie and Blowhards.
Obviously because I don't think they're one of the better artists out
there. Better than Hootie, yes, but I don't consider that any great
accomplishment.
Peter Stoller