One day while dreaming I'm a real song writer, I realized the problems of writing a song that may be too long for potential radio play. Doing some research it would appear the typical pop song is around 3:40 in length. What do you think the ideal length for a pop song should be? Another question is, anyone know what the shortest radio song was? I remember a song called "Fish Head" that was pretty short... :)
>One day while dreaming I'm a real song writer, I realized the problems of >writing a song that may be too long for potential radio play. Doing some >research it would appear the typical pop song is around 3:40 in length. What >do you think the ideal length for a pop song should be? Another question is, >anyone know what the shortest radio song was? I remember a song called "Fish >Head" that was pretty short... :)
Length 3:30 approx (don't do as I do do as I say - I have a DEMO in at over 6 minutes :-)
There is a story about a couple of guys who deliberately labelled all the songs 1 min 59 seconds (even if it was a bit longer) so radio stations would play it leading up to the commercials, etc.
But, Dave, if you're thinking "net" what does it matter?
> Length 3:30 approx (don't do as I do do as I say - I have a DEMO in at over 6 > minutes :-)
Hey, me mum always told me that... :) Yah, it looks like the magic time is anywhere from 3:15 to 3:45. I'm trying to keep my music at around the 3:30 mark.
> There is a story about a couple of guys who deliberately labelled all the songs > 1 min 59 seconds (even if it was a bit longer) so radio stations would play it > leading up to the commercials, etc.
Hmmm..makes sense. The shorter the "hit" probably the easier it is to fit it in the rotation.
> But, Dave, if you're thinking "net" what does it matter? > Richard
True, but I think when you are trying to write something that will appeal to the masses, it's somewhat safe to stick to the existing cookie mold. :) (Then there's the issue of how long it takes to download too..)
> One day while dreaming I'm a real song writer, I realized the problems of > writing a song that may be too long for potential radio play. Doing some > research it would appear the typical pop song is around 3:40 in length. What > do you think the ideal length for a pop song should be? Another question is, > anyone know what the shortest radio song was? I remember a song called "Fish > Head" that was pretty short... :)
Well, I remember a country song that got played a few times as a novelty with the entire lyrics of: "this is the shortest song in the world"
I also remember another short song that was 26 seconds(or actually, it may have been the above song).
Actually, I'm not sure its the right question. I think the question should be how long should the DEMO be in that, once it gets to the artist stage, they might decide to put a one minute instrumental break in the middle. Myself, when a demo gets past the 3:30 level, a little red light starts going off in my brain.
Just glancing at the current edition of Billboard, they list the time of new singles. A few of them: U2's new single is listed at 3:42. Aaron Carter 3:17. Garbage 3:09, Nsync 4:22, Depeche Mode 3:39, Edwin McCain (adult contemporary) 4:20. I didn't list titles because I didn't think they would mean anything since they are new songs nor is this meant to be any sort of representative sample.
I think there are hit songs in just about every format that run longer than five minutes as well.
Richard Wilcox wrote: > There is a story about a couple of guys who deliberately labelled all the songs > 1 min 59 seconds (even if it was a bit longer) so radio stations would play it > leading up to the commercials, etc.
> But, Dave, if you're thinking "net" what does it matter?
"Fish heads fish heads roly poly fish heads. Fish heads. Fish heads. Eat them up. Yum." Great song! Barnes and Barnes. Used to hear it on Doctor Demento all the time. :) Cid
"One day while dreaming I'm a real song writer, I realized the problems of writing a song that may be too long for potential radio play. Doing some
research it would appear the typical pop song is around 3:40 in length. What do you think the ideal length for a pop song should be? Another question is, anyone know what the shortest radio song was? I remember a song called "Fish Head" that was pretty short... :)"
There was something on the country charts last year, a "One Minute Love Song" or something like that. Very short. I don't usually pay much attention to time or length when writing, but it does become a consideration when I'm programming. 3:30 is my watermark; I won't necessarily chop a song up if it's longer than 3 minutes 30 sec's, but I might forgo 'another guitar solo' or an interlude or leave off the intro if it isn't really creative and interesting. I might adjust the tempo a little bit, too. 120 BPM is my normal tempo; 100 bars at 120 BPM comes out to just a little under 3:30. (100 X 4 = 400 beats, divided by 120 BPM = 3.33, with the '.33' equaling about 20 seconds). It also depends on what kind of thing I'm writing, too; orchestral pieces usually run longer because there is more depth and development. A guitar/band instrumental will tend to be shorter, because they are a little faster and there isn't a lot of point to having long drawn out turn-arounds and interludes--a guitar/band instrumental IS an interlude (on my vocabulary, anyway). So my answer to your question is "3 minutes, 30 seconds, not that that means a whole lot. Any given song is either longer or shorter than that."
> What > do you think the ideal length for a pop song should be?
Long enough for the hook to get into your head. Short enough for it not to get boring. Including an intro and outro that a DJ would talk over, you are looking at a total of 3 mins 40, but you should try and get all the ideas into less than that. I tend to aim for 112 bars, no matter what the tempo. (120 bars at 120bpm is four minutes). -- Cheers, Arty ;-//) Hear my tunes at: http://www.smokinmusic.co.uk (Techno big beats in a disco stylee with Flash animations!)
>One day while dreaming I'm a real song writer, I realized the problems of >writing a song that may be too long for potential radio play. Doing some >research it would appear the typical pop song is around 3:40 in length. What >do you think the ideal length for a pop song should be? Another question is, >anyone know what the shortest radio song was? I remember a song called "Fish >Head" that was pretty short... :)
For country radio, you're best off in the 3:00-3:15 range, but up to 3:30 is usually considered acceptable. Occasionally, you'll hear a hit song that runs longer, but those are the exceptions. Pop radio tends to allow slightly longer songs than country radio. I think you can get away with songs up to 4:00 in pop.
I like to keep my songs shorter rather than longer whenever possible. It's harder to write a short song than a long song. Telling the complete story is easier if there's no limit on the number of words. Cutting out all the fat while still telling the whole story is a challenge.
I'm proud to say that, on my last demo session, I recorded what I'm pretty sure is my shortest song to date. It clocks in at 2:18. That's 2 verses, 2 choruses, and a bridge followed by a third chorus and a tag.
> One day while dreaming I'm a real song writer, I realized the problems of > writing a song that may be too long for potential radio play. Doing some > research it would appear the typical pop song is around 3:40 in length. What > do you think the ideal length for a pop song should be? (snip)
I've been giving this one quite a lot of thought lately. I think it is worth thinking about keeping the length at about three minutes, but not because of radio play, instead to minimise the internet download time. I think the internet will be the defacto way to release a single (look at Dylan's Po' Boy download).
An album I've been enjoying recently is ELO/Jeff Lynne's Zoom. Most of the tracks are pretty short and they are all catchy and don't outstay their welcome (if you like that kind of thing, and I know not everyone does).
> An album I've been enjoying recently is ELO/Jeff Lynne's Zoom. Most of the > tracks are pretty short and they are all catchy and don't outstay their > welcome (if you like that kind of thing, and I know not everyone does).
Hi Andrew...I just saw a story about Jeff Lynne yesterday...is this a "best of" album or are they all new songs? As I watched the story, I realized how many great songs he and ELO had :-)
Dylan's Po Boy was just a lo-fi to get the punters interested in buying the album.
Length is relative, depends on the song, the genre, the variation, the audience, longest "hit" single in the UK now stands at 8 minutes, shortest at less than 2 minutes, but for somebody trying to break in these days less that 3.30 sounds just fine.
>I've been giving this one quite a lot of thought lately. I think it is worth >thinking about keeping the length at about three minutes, but not because of >radio play, instead to minimise the internet download time. I think the >internet will be the defacto way to release a single (look at Dylan's Po' >Boy download).
>An album I've been enjoying recently is ELO/Jeff Lynne's Zoom. Most of the >tracks are pretty short and they are all catchy and don't outstay their >welcome (if you like that kind of thing, and I know not everyone does).
> > An album I've been enjoying recently is ELO/Jeff Lynne's Zoom. Most of the > > tracks are pretty short and they are all catchy and don't outstay their > > welcome (if you like that kind of thing, and I know not everyone does).
> Hi Andrew...I just saw a story about Jeff Lynne yesterday...is this a "best > of" album or are they all new songs? As I watched the story, I realized how > many great songs he and ELO had :-)
It's all new stuff but it sounds a bit like a greatest hits album. Good old fashioned pop music! There are some good ELO compilations, the double CD Light Years is probably the best bet, this contains all of the singles as far as I know.
> > > An album I've been enjoying recently is ELO/Jeff Lynne's Zoom. Most of > the > > > tracks are pretty short and they are all catchy and don't outstay their > > > welcome (if you like that kind of thing, and I know not everyone does).
> > Hi Andrew...I just saw a story about Jeff Lynne yesterday...is this a > "best > > of" album or are they all new songs? As I watched the story, I realized > how > > many great songs he and ELO had :-)
> It's all new stuff but it sounds a bit like a greatest hits album. Good old > fashioned pop music! There are some good ELO compilations, the double CD > Light Years is probably the best bet, this contains all of the singles as > far as I know.
Cool...I'll have to check them out...thanks Andrew :-)
<and...@pants.andrewbradley.co.uk> wrote: >> One day while dreaming I'm a real song writer, I realized the problems of >> writing a song that may be too long for potential radio play. Doing some >> research it would appear the typical pop song is around 3:40 in length. >What >> do you think the ideal length for a pop song should be? (snip)
>I've been giving this one quite a lot of thought lately. I think it is worth >thinking about keeping the length at about three minutes, but not because of >radio play, instead to minimise the internet download time. I think the >internet will be the defacto way to release a single (look at Dylan's Po' >Boy download).
>An album I've been enjoying recently is ELO/Jeff Lynne's Zoom. Most of the >tracks are pretty short and they are all catchy and don't outstay their >welcome (if you like that kind of thing, and I know not everyone does).
There was a time when I was taking a look at the lengths of various songs and stuff. I was surprised at the time how short most of ZZ Top's songs were. Some of their CD's are barely 30 minutes of music.
