What does this song mean?
tim.mc...@gmail.com
have a disagreement on what the song could be interpreted to mean. I
thought this forum was a good place to share it. I want to know if
your (anybody out there) interpretation of the lyrics tells you that
this song is FOR or AGAINST organized religion, or something else.
Wake up Religion
Why do I feel so left out?
Left out of all of it.
Watch myself walk right into the middle of it all
Just stand and watch in wonder
Watching all the separation
Why do I feel so vulnerable
Jesus Christ and Krishna are best friends with their buddy mohammed
And they want us to just love each other, just love each other....NOW!
Year to year we mock and snicker
Laughin bout who's not the same
Some of us even think that only one way is right
Just stand and point the finger
What they think must be wrong
They don't believe in Jesus,
Or God at all
Chorus
Faith we choose cant be corrected
Its buried in our graves
The only time we know if we were right or wrong
One religion seems to cage you
Missing out on everything
Everything else in the world to help you out.
Antti Luode
Ive found that a lot of times, i probably do not get the original meaning of
the song, instead, I get attached to a couple of keywords on the song. Which
I guess, is what most pop writers try to do (a good memorable chorus while
the verses can be forgotten).
Antti
<tim.mc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1097336880.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Angsmom430
>From: "Antti Luode" anttino...@hotmail.com
>Date: 10/9/04 5:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <ck9lmi$k45$1...@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>
>
>I think you have to give the liberty of interpretation for the listener.
That's a cop-out if you ask me. A song is more fulfilling and better written
when it makes sense to everyone. Sure there are great songs where the meaning
is vague or not even known but when a songwriter says, "It means whatever the
listener gets from it" To me that has always been like saying "I don't really
know what it means, but a few lines sound cool and deep and it's easier to
write a song that sounds deep than actually is deep and makes complete sense"
Just My opinion.
Flying Tadpole
"And everyone will say,
As you walk your mystic way,
'If this young man expresses himself in terms too deep for me,
Why, what a very singularly deep young man this deep young man
must be!'"
WS Gilbert
--
Flying Tadpole
-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://music.download.com/internetopera
http://www.soundclick.com/flyingtadpole
Angsmom430
>Date: 10/10/04 5:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <4169AE56...@hotmail.com>
>
>
>
>Angsmom430 wrote:
>>
>> >Subject: Re: What does this song mean?
>> >From: "Antti Luode" anttino...@hotmail.com
>> >Date: 10/9/04 5:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>> >Message-id: <ck9lmi$k45$1...@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>
>> >
>> >I think you have to give the liberty of interpretation for the listener.
>>
>> That's a cop-out if you ask me. A song is more fulfilling and better
>written
>> when it makes sense to everyone. Sure there are great songs where the
>meaning
>> is vague or not even known but when a songwriter says, "It means whatever
>the
>> listener gets from it" To me that has always been like saying "I don't
>really
>> know what it means, but a few lines sound cool and deep and it's easier to
>> write a song that sounds deep than actually is deep and makes complete
>sense"
>>
>
>"And everyone will say,
>As you walk your mystic way,
>'If this young man expresses himself in terms too deep for me,
>Why, what a very singularly deep young man this deep young man
>must be!'"
Whether there is any depth whatsoever has to be questioned when a writer leaves
the interpretation to the listener ;) A fool is to a follower what a follower
is to a fool.
Kevin Buffardi
>
> That's a cop-out if you ask me. A song is more fulfilling and better
written
> when it makes sense to everyone.
But does it have to mean the same thing to every listener?
--
Kevin Buffardi
"Rockstars -- is there
anything they don't know?"
-Homer Simpson
Angsmom430
>Date: 10/10/04 8:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2su424F...@uni-berlin.de>
>
>> >I think you have to give the liberty of interpretation for the listener.
>>
>> That's a cop-out if you ask me. A song is more fulfilling and better
>written
>> when it makes sense to everyone.
>
>But does it have to mean the same thing to every listener?
Well, there are no rules, BUT, IMO, if the writer leaves it open to
interpretation than that has to mean he or she isn't exactly sure what it means
themselves and I don't think that is good writing, but that's me.
Kevin Buffardi
> interpretation than that has to mean he or she isn't exactly sure what it
means
Since when? It's called abstract art. I know of plenty of songs which have
personal meaning to many listeners that may or may not match with the
writer's intentions. It's pretty easy to write a straight-forward lyric.
However, to steer the audience to their own conclusions through imagery and
abstraction -- that takes true artistic creativity.
David F. Cox
"Kevin Buffardi" <kbuf...@mwc.edu> wrote in message
news:2su424F...@uni-berlin.de...
IMO it should mean something to the writer, and the writer should be trying
to communicate that something to a listener, although not necessarily to
every listener.
One rewrite of my "The other side of the window" has the line "What lies
beyond the pane/pain". Now the writer or singer can only choose one of
those, but can be expressing a doubt or ambiguity in their own mind, and
transmitting that ambiguity to any that pays enough attention to bother
about it.
My song "One for the road" can also be transmitting the message "Won for the
road", and I intended both interpretations to be valid, but I can only write
one word.
My "A trip to a fair" has the deliberate ambiguities of trip as a journey or
a fall, and "a fair" or "affair" or even the lesser usage of "fair" as a
presentable young lady, and that is just the title. The song was intended
to present an anti-aids message, so I put it into the public domain. Jay
Seeley then adapted the song as a recounting of a drugs trip. Fine rendition
though that was, it taught me something about the importance of retaining
copyright, it is not just about money.
David F. Cox
James B. Mitchell
The line between abstract art and lazy self-indulgence can be very thin
indeed.
I think there are some truly great songs written in a way that allow for
multiple interpretations, but my warning bell always goes off when I hear
this phrase used by fellow amateur songwriters. In my experience, 49 times
out of 50 it means that the songwriter has slapped some words together with
little thought and even less intention, and then foisted the job of making
any sense out of this conglomeration onto the artistic sensibilities of the
listener. At that point, any art is really listener-generated; I like to
call it "coincidental art".
Just because we can't see the bottom of the stream doesn't necessarily mean
it's deep -- it could be just be very shallow, muddy, and stirred-up.
Not that I have any *strong* opinion on the matter, mind you. ;^)
-- James
Gap Creek Road
>However, to steer the audience to their own conclusions through imagery and
>abstraction -- that takes true artistic creativity.
I agree 100% Kevin. A song that has multiple meanings and is open to
interpretation can be effective on many levels.
Scott
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gap Creek Road
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/gapcreekroadmusic.htm
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/gapcreekroad.htm
http://www.gapcreekroad.com
Upstate Forums Discussion Boards
http://www.upstateforums.com
Michael Anthony
gapcreek...@gapcreekroadNOSPAM.com says...
> On 11 Oct 2004 01:30:09 GMT, "Kevin Buffardi" <kbuf...@mwc.edu> wrote:
>
> >However, to steer the audience to their own conclusions through imagery and
> >abstraction -- that takes true artistic creativity.
>
> I agree 100% Kevin. A song that has multiple meanings and is open to
> interpretation can be effective on many levels.
I consciously ration my use of abstract metaphor or solely
impressionistic imagery because I don't want to write songs that depend
entirely on the listener understanding the references I make. I'll use
poetic devices when more powerful language is needed, but typically I'll
jump back to narrative writing so that the audience can still enjoy the
development of the "story" even if the meaning of some lines escapes
them. I like when the song is entertaining on a superficial level, but is
also dealing out underlying metaphors that support what I'm saying. In
this way there is room for personal interpretation. For example, a verse
from my song "The Puzzle" goes:
"I've lived in the country
I've lived in the town
I roll with the changes of form"
At the top level it's just a description of where I might have lived
followed by a statement about my personality. Under the surface,
"country" and "town" can also be taken as contrasting lifestyles or
environments of a sort, or states of mind. To me, the "country" is a
peaceful and contented situation while the "town" is more urgent or
stressful, but I don't expect the listener to reach exactly the same
conclusions.
In this debate over ambiguity, I would say one other thing: ambiguity can
give a song longevity. For example, a song that makes room for ambiguity
can mean one thing when you are twenty and something else when you are
forty. Effectively it changes with you, and can therefore be your
companion for a good number of years.
--
Michael Anthony
My music @ http://ma.fihs.net
Antti Luode
news:20041010111425...@mb-m28.aol.com...
I would like to take Nirvanas lithium as for example.
Thing that has always stuck for me from that song is the phrase
"i am not going to crack"
We all know he did in the end.
Here people are talking about its meaning.
http://www.songmeanings.net/lyric.php?lid=4045
Some people feel it is important for them to understand.
To me that song will always be just one phrase.
"i am not going to crack"
Or how about Ramsteins Amerika.
Amerika pronounced with german accent to me,
is more than 1000 words. That is the only thing
I have to listen to in that song, the rest is there just
to fill space.
Heck, it is in German anyway.
But at the same time, there are probably a 1999 people out there,
who feel completely different about the songs I mentioned above.
They probably listen to something completely different on the song.
I think it is ok.
I used to hate it when I wrote reviews at school and the teacher
would say that she / he did not agree with me.
Some people have this need to know better, to feel like they are
blessed with the knowledge of what this or that particular poem /
song / movie / novel means.
I think that is crap.
Any artist who ventures into big artistic endeavour, can not
control the possible feelings that particular piece of "art" evokes
in the listener / watcher / reader. So, there will
always be as many intrepretations as there are listeners.
We all have certain keywords / phrases that throw us
on different emotional trips..
Just my 2 cents.
Antti
Gap Creek Road
wrote:
>In this debate over ambiguity, I would say one other thing: ambiguity can
>give a song longevity. For example, a song that makes room for ambiguity
>can mean one thing when you are twenty and something else when you are
>forty. Effectively it changes with you, and can therefore be your
>companion for a good number of years.
Good point Michael. When I was a teenager, a "straight" person was someone who
wasn't considered "cool" or someone who didn't smoke weed, while today is means
something totally different...
There are times when being literal has it's advantages though. Personally, I
strive for a balance in my writing when it comes to leaving things totally open
for interpretation. I usually want some kind of point, emotion or meaning to
come across and If *everything* in the song is ambiguous, that can get lost.
Then there is always the nonsense songs which don't have any kind of meaning. I
saw an interview with Tommy James where he said that his song "MONY MONY", which
makes no sense whatsoever, came from him looking up at a sign on the corner of
the Mutual Of New York building. ;)
David F. Cox
"Antti Luode" <anttino...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ckdogq$h8c$1...@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
I once saw a TV show where a bunch of assorted individuals were giving their
opinion on art. A very blunt Lancashire businessman pointed to an abstract
artist and demanded. "Tell me what it means."
The artist very sorrowfully replied: "If I could say it, I would not have to
paint it."
David F. Cox
DJB
much like graffiti perhaps...............?
DJB
"David F. Cox" <bigd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XMuad.32$IW...@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 28/09/2004
Irene Jackson
>> interpretation than that has to mean he or she isn't exactly sure what it
> means
>
> Since when? It's called abstract art. I know of plenty of songs which
> have
> personal meaning to many listeners that may or may not match with the
> writer's intentions. It's pretty easy to write a straight-forward lyric.
> However, to steer the audience to their own conclusions through imagery
> and
> abstraction -- that takes true artistic creativity.
I agree with you Kevin...and the fact is that many of us will imprint our
own lives and our own truths on a song that we love. I read an obituary
recently about a fellow named Jacques Derrida, who was considered the father
of "deconstructionism". He focused his work on how it applied to
language...
"showing it (language) had multiple layers and thus multiple meanings or
interpretations, challenging the notion that speech is a direct form of
communication, or even that the author of a text is the author of its
meaning." A lot of people have trouble or discomfort with anything that
isn't black and white :-)
IJ
--
IJ
http://www.irenejackson.com
http://www.irenejackson.com/tips.html
Angsmom430
>Date: 10/11/04 8:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <XMuad.32$IW...@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>
I think there is a very fine line between an artist really conveying something
and really pouring on the BS. I am personally not impressed with abstract art,
especially the kind where the "artists" has no talent as far as the actually
painting or drawing is concerned.
Angsmom430
>Date: 10/10/04 9:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2su610F...@uni-berlin.de>
>
>> ...if the writer leaves it open to
>> interpretation than that has to mean he or she isn't exactly sure what it
>means
>
>Since when? It's called abstract art. I know of plenty of songs which have
>personal meaning to many listeners that may or may not match with the
>writer's intentions. It's pretty easy to write a straight-forward lyric.
>However, to steer the audience to their own conclusions through imagery and
>abstraction -- that takes true artistic creativity.
I couldn't disagree more. Writing an original story using original imagery is
far more difficult than beating around the bush with some clever wording that
really has no concrete meaning, that is simple, at least for me.
Angsmom430
>Date: 10/11/04 1:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <1woad.1875$6q2...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
YES! You get it!
Angsmom430
>Date: 10/11/04 1:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <Yazad.73790$a41.50584@pd7tw2no>
A lot of artists try to use green, purple, yellow, brown, turquoise, red, etc.
and end up with a big messy painting with no direction they label as "abstract"
because they think to the outside world it paints a deeper picture of
themselves, rather than black and white with a little gray thrown in ;) which
is so much more satisfying.
Honcho
"I think there is a very fine line between an artist really conveying
something and really pouring on the BS. I am personally not impressed with
abstract art, especially the kind where the "artists" has no talent as far
as the
actually painting or drawing is concerned."
_______________________
Fair comment, some like art to be interpretive and some like their art to
be photographs. Not that photographers don't have their fair share of BS
quotient.
Richard
Kevin Buffardi
> far more difficult than beating around the bush with some clever wording
that
> really has no concrete meaning, that is simple, at least for me.
I think what you're missing is that it's possible to take a step beyond
writing an original story by writing it in an abstract way so that no two
people may interpret it the same. Let me show through example. I choose
two different songs written by Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits (who just
happens to be one of my favorite songwriters/musicians).
First, we take "Romeo and Juliet"
Lyrics: http://tinyurl.com/6zw9y
This song is very concrete and tells a story... beautifully if I might add.
Then, consider "Brothers in Arms"
Lyrics: http://tinyurl.com/6oeqs
Now this song has an element of abstraction. No real specifics of the
setting or storyline are revealed. However, the lyrics are vivid and
complement the music masterfully. There are no specific people mentioned,
nor specific actions, but a message is still conveyed. But since it is more
abstract, it is easier for two listeners to take away something different
from the song.
Now both writing styles a perfectly valid and it is subjective to say one is
better than the other. However, to just brush off an abstract message as
unoriginal "pouring on the BS" is doing the artform of songwriting a
disservice.
Antti Luode
"What is a saint? A saint is someone who has achieved a remote human
possibility. It is impossible to say what that possibility is. I think it
has something to do with the energy of love. Contact with this energy
results in the exercise of a kind of balance in the chaos of existence. A
saint does not dissolve the chaos; if he did the world would have changed
long ago. I do not think that a saint dissolves the chaos even for himself,
for there is something arrogant and warlike in the notion of a man setting
the universe in order. It is a kind of balance that is his glory. He rides
the drifts like an escaped ski. His course is the caress of the hill. His
track is a drawing of the snow in a moment of its particular arrangement
with wind and rock. Something in him so loves the world that he gives
himself to the laws of gravity and chance. Far from flying with the angels,
he traces with the fidelity of a seismograph needle the state of the solid
bloody landscape. His house is dangerous and finite, but he is at home in
the world. He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted
shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing
monsters of love."
I imagine we all agree that, the above is pure gold.
A profound moment of clarity.
Not cliched.
I understand angsmoms? craving that all art should be made of similar
nuggets of gold.
Sadly, few of us are like Leonard Cohen, or like he was at the top of his
game.
If I would only write when I feel as inspired as Leonard above, I would
never write.
But I guess, we all are seismograph needles (thanks Leonard) charting our
particular
path through life. Not everyone gets to be smart / beautiful and cool, doing
the
right drugs, riding the hippest flow.
Most of us are condemned to life of obscurity, honking voice, face like
vultures
ass, charting the cliched landscape, taking the easy way, instead of always
heading
for the hills in a monk robe.
What would not I have given to be like Leonard Cohen when I was 19?
Nothing. I would have sold my soul.
But, I am me, Leonard is Leonard.
Bless him, curse me. It is ok.
But imagine this, what if, everyone who feels need to create,
would stop, and wait for that divine inspiration to hit..
What would happen?
Mostly silence.
The thing is, all we can hope for, is that maybe someday, between
the cliched shit we make, we are going to be touched by something
divine.
Most of us die before that happens.
But then again, we might feel that touch of divine in things other
than making music, in love, in our personal lives, watching at the
sunset, having babies.
We just can not put it to paper / film / cd...
Is it too bad? People like Leonard move amongst us, and most of nature
is stunningly beautiful, so what if we are the cliched birds, singing our
cliched
songs, never making it.
At least we got to be here, listening to likes of Leonard, loving our
beloved ones..
I could go on forever tonight, but I will save you from that.
I would just like to say one more thing, I kind a believe that when certain
people open their mouths, they feel more options that are open for them,
they have more credible stories, more experience to draw from, they
can "take it away"..
Us little people, when we open our mouths, there is no magic, no incredible
life to draw from, no credibility in our breaking voice. We lose the game
before we open our mouths, so we just say our cliched things and expect to
fail.
Maybe one has to live a certain kind of a life to be freed from cliches.
Living for a song, sacrificing everything else, it is a hell of a thing to
do,
sometimes I wish I had the balls to do it.
Nite.
Antti
"Honcho" <richhoncho@nospam> wrote in message
news:36c680e2e740db8e...@localhost.talkaboutthemusic.com...
Angsmom430
>Date: 10/11/04 5:11 PM Eastern Daylight
>Us little people, when we open our mouths, there is no magic, no incredible
>life to draw from, no credibility in our breaking voice. We lose the game
>before we open our mouths, so we just say our cliched things and expect to
>fail.
You lost me here. Everyone has something to say, there is magic in all of us,
all who create. Maybe I'm blessed, I go off inspiration more times than not,
but through hard work can come magic too.
Angsmom430
>Date: 10/11/04 4:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2t09j2F...@uni-berlin.de>
If you noticed in my previous posts I used the words 'often' or the phrase
'more times than not' or something close to that. I do feel often that it is a
bunch of BS, but there is always the acceptation. BTW ""Romeo and Juliet", good
song.
Antti Luode
I was tapping to the flow of that "i am a ugly loser" feeling.
Basically just whining.
You are right, hard work does make a difference.
Some people are better at it, able to "just do it".
The rest of us whine.
Or are some people just better equipped, more gifted?
Should we all be like Leonard Cohen.
Could we all be like Leonard Cohen?
Was. Once. For a little while.
My godfather just had a stroke in his brain last week. He is 57.
World goes on, beautiful as ever, as people fade away.
Should we spend a month crafting a song, locked inside four walls,
drive our selves to madness, screaming "i am not going to crack"
Some of us feel that we are close to making it, so they decide to do it,
influenced by hunger for success and all the trinkets it brings along it.
Some of us are blessed with patient nature and love for ones own art.
I guess you are one of the latter ones.
I am happy you feel blessed.
The world is full of broken vessels.
Antti
Irene Jackson
news:36c680e2e740db8e...@localhost.talkaboutthemusic.com...
Only problem is...and I'm referring more to the original comment than yours,
Richard...is that when you say "I don't personally like (fill in the
blank)", that is a subjective viewpoint. How it proves that interpretive
lyrics are invalid or no good is beyond me.
IJ
Honcho
"Only problem is...and I'm referring more to the original comment than
yours, Richard...is that when you say "I don't personally like (fill in
the blank)", that is a subjective viewpoint. How it proves that
interpretive lyrics are invalid or no good is beyond me."
_________
As a metaphorical songwriter once nearly sang
"At dawn my lover comes to me
And tells me of her dreams
With no attempts to shovel the glimpse
Into the ditch of what each one means
At times I think there are no words
But these to tell what's true
And there are no truths outside RMMS."
Bob Dylan - Gates of Eden.
Richard
Angsmom430
>Date: 10/11/04 6:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <gpDad.714298$gE.86629@pd7tw3no>
All art is subjective, we all have opinions. I didn't see anyone say
interpretive lyrics are no good. I said "often times" they are the easy way out
and often times they are BS, as in, the writer couldn't say something concrete
or that made sense so they pass it off as interpretive or worse fool themselves
into thinking it means something, I've been there, I know how it goes, trying
to come across as a deep serious writer. I'm sure some would listen to my early
stuff and think it was very deep and could take many different meanings, but
I'm here to tell you for the most part it was BS, not for BS sakes but before I
understood I was short changing myself and the listener.
David F. Cox
There are parts of the brain that deal with language for most people. You
can see them activated on a brain scanner when the person scanned hears
speech. A few people have other parts of the brain stimulated. For a very
few it is the part of the brain that normally processes smell. Those people
hear particular words as particular smells. It is a reasonable postulate
that, because different areas are involved in processing sight and sound in
different people, that they actually hear and see differently. This effect
is compounded by cultural and environmental differences. It is easy for me
to look at a late Turner or Picasso painting and conclude that the painter
has a problem, but since it is obvious that they could paint in a manner I
could relate to in their earlier years, that it is just possible that they
are seeing something that I cannot.
I have met people with the Radar (MASH) gift of hearing thing no others
around could, and musicians who could hear things that I could not, such as
whose amp was being used at a jam session.
I do not have any difficulty in believing that certain patterns of words and
sounds can communicate messages between those so gifted, that I do not even
know are there.
There may be little difference between bacon and egg and ham omelette in my
perception, but they may smell very differently to someone else. What smells
like BS to you or I might be roses to someone else.
David F. Cox
Kevin Buffardi
> 'more times than not' or something close to that. I do feel often that it
is a
> bunch of BS, but there is always the acceptation. BTW ""Romeo and Juliet",
good
> song.
Ok, I'll give you that. However, I still get the impression that your
general thought is
concret:good::abstract::bad.
I wouldn't even go as far as you have to say "more times than not." Sure,
there are hack abstract songs. But I wouldn't necessarily say there are any
more than there are hack concrete songs. As such, I submit to the court,
Evidence A:
"Sk8r Boi" (A. Lavigne)
He was a boy
She was a girl
Can i make it any more obvious
He was a punk
She did ballet
What more can i say
He wanted her
She'd never tell secretly she wanted him as well
But all of her friends
Stuck up their nose
They had a problem with his baggy clothes
He was a skater boy
She said see you later boy
He wasn't good enough for her
She had a pretty face
But her head was up in space
She needed to come back down to earth
5 years from now
She sits at home
Feeding the baby she's all alone
She turns on tv
Guess who she sees
Skater boy rockin up MTV
She calls up her friends
They already know
And they've all got
Tickets to see his show
She tags along
Stands in the crowd
Looks up at the man that she turned down
He was a skater boy
She said see you later boy
He wasn't good enough for her
Now he's a super star
Slamming on his guitar
Does your pretty face see what he's worth?
He was a skater boy
She said see you later boy
He wasn't good enough for her
Now he's a super star
Slamming on his guitar
Does your pretty face see what he's worth?
Sorry girl but you missed out
Well tough luck that boy's mine now
We are more than just good friends
This is how the story ends
Too bad that you couldn't see,
See the man that boy could be
There is more that meets the eye
I see the soul that is inside
He's just a boy
And I'm just a girl
Can I make it any more obvious
We are in love
Haven't you heard
How we rock each others world
I'm with the skater boy
I said see you later boy
I'll be back stage after the show
I'll be at the studio
Singing the song we wrote
About a girl you used to know
I'm with the skater boy
I said see you later boy
I'll be back stage after the show
I'll be at the studio
Singing the song we wrote
About a girl you used to know
The defense rests.
Angsmom430
>Message-id: <9qEad.340$HV....@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>
Art is a touchy subject, it's very taboo. There is no right and wrong or bad or
good.. or is there? Lets take the 80's band Poison and the 70's band Led
Zeppelin. While I am confident most people would consider Zep to be a far more
talented band, much better songs and more real or true to the art, others won't
agree, I seriously put fourth that it's not merely an opinion, but those who
can't recognize the difference are not as far along in growth in certian areas.
I do not honestly believe it's merely opinion, I do believe there are some
certainties in art. Who's a better singer, William Hung or Whitney Houston?
Anyone with ears can tell who the better singer is, I do not believe in such a
case an honest opinion that Hung is better is a valid one, in other words I
believe that person is wrong and therein lies the taboo.
TomHendricks474
>bad or
>good.. or is there?
As a reviewer - YES there is.
Start with the technical side of a work of art. Is it well crafted?
That is not a subjective question.
Is the song sung on key (if that was the intent) Is there an interesting intro
and outro, or the same boring clone approach?
Etc. etc.
Corporate art - the 6 or so conglomerates that control mainstream art (film,
tv, publishing, etc.) would like you to think that all art is subjective. That
way when 99% of what they offer is junk, they can pass it off as your opinion
that it isn't good.
"Critics agree" that... how many times have you heard that?
Well they don't - bought off corporate art critics might agree cause they'll
loose their jobs, or paper's ad revenue - but us indy reviewers know that art
can be judged and judged fairly and be correct much of the time.
Usually a bad work is recognized as that. A good work is too.
It's the ones in between that critics never agree on.
Corporate art is
Disney ABC/ Viacom CBS/ News Corp Fox/ AOL/Warners / GE NBC, and not much else.
Speaking of music - come by and see 5 songs from my CD "30" or offer any art
work for a fair and guaranteed review to my zine Musea.
All the specifics at the website or e-mail me.
Time to shake up every aspect of the arts - join the art revoluiton!
Tom Hendricks, Musea zine ed.
http://musea.digitalchainsaw.com"
Musea GUARANTEES every musician, painter, writer, etc.
a REVIEW - a tough review - a fair review.
Contact me for our policy. Samples:
http://musea.digitalchainsaw.com/reviews1.html
Mike Morgan
lyric, which I personally love. Don't know what it does for the rest of you.
Also this band are so obscure I couldn't find a transcript of the lyrics
without question marks where unknown words should be - I've got to get
some 'indie points' for that :)
Blind In Safety And Leafy In Love
A song by Cardiacs from "Songs for Ships and Irons"
Death a thing she hardly knew, So thin and rare and small and few
It smells just like me and it smells just like you
She's blinded for the best, In this bright tree she makes her nest
Everyone laughs as she struggles up high
Everyone's happy and she wants to die
??Dead is?? and so far everything is new
It smells just like me and it smells just like you
(Blind in safety and leafy in love)
Plain ugly and homely race, with sad disgrace drawn on its face
She sleeps in the buds in a place where no
Summer shines like tears are shed, For the living or for the dead
People laugh cant tell her anything
When theres ?????? in her eyes shine with formaldehyde
Cries with a different feeling
When the chaos ensues with a new appetite
And in the wormless sand shall she, A feast for no foul glutton be
She's washed by the sea to a place where no
Summer shines no tears are shed, For the living or for the dead
--
http://www.soundclick.com/mikemorgan
http://www.soundclick.com/mikemorganinstrumentals
Timbo
a sense of rebellion coming from the writer. A person fed up with
people who say they believe one thing and, without realizing it,
support the opposite. I know what the writer actually meant when he
wrote it, but sometimes words strike different meaning within people.
Mike Morgan
> I have a singer/songwrite friend who wrote the following lyrics. we
> have a disagreement on what the song could be interpreted to mean. I
> thought this forum was a good place to share it. I want to know if
> your (anybody out there) interpretation of the lyrics tells you that
> this song is FOR or AGAINST organized religion, or something else.
>
> Wake up Religion
>
> Why do I feel so left out?
> Left out of all of it.
> Watch myself walk right into the middle of it all
> Just stand and watch in wonder
> Watching all the separation
> Why do I feel so vulnerable
>
> Jesus Christ and Krishna are best friends with their buddy mohammed
> And they want us to just love each other, just love each other....NOW!
>
> Year to year we mock and snicker
> Laughin bout who's not the same
> Some of us even think that only one way is right
> Just stand and point the finger
> What they think must be wrong
> They don't believe in Jesus,
> Or God at all
>
> Chorus
>
> Faith we choose cant be corrected
> Its buried in our graves
> The only time we know if we were right or wrong
> One religion seems to cage you
> Missing out on everything
> Everything else in the world to help you out.
>
The guy feels if he chooses any one religion he'd be missing out on what
the others have to offer so why can't we all stop fighting over who's
right and who's wrong and get on with one another, etc. etc. It's
obvious. Next question...
David F. Cox
<tim.mc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1097336880.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I have a singer/songwrite friend who wrote the following lyrics. we
> have a disagreement on what the song could be interpreted to mean. I
> thought this forum was a good place to share it. I want to know if
> your (anybody out there) interpretation of the lyrics tells you that
> this song is FOR or AGAINST organized religion, or something else.
>
> Wake up Religion
religion is asleep - Anti
> Why do I feel so left out?
> Left out of all of it.
exclusive - Anti
> Watch myself walk right into the middle of it all
> Just stand and watch in wonder
> Watching all the separation
separation - anti
> Why do I feel so vulnerable
negative feelings - Anti
> Jesus Christ and Krishna are best friends with their buddy mohammed
Oh no they're not
> And they want us to just love each other, just love each other....NOW!
maybe, but perhaps they wanted us to love them more?
> Year to year we mock and snicker
> Laughin bout who's not the same
> Some of us even think that only one way is right
> Just stand and point the finger
> What they think must be wrong
Anti
> They don't believe in Jesus,
> Or God at all
religion putting some people off believing in God - Anti
> Chorus
>
> Faith we choose cant be corrected
> Its buried in our graves
> The only time we know if we were right or wrong
> One religion seems to cage you
> Missing out on everything
> Everything else in the world to help you out.
I think that the reason more people did not respond to your question is
because it looked like the answer was just too obvious, and some of the more
cynical of us thought it was a crude attempt to divert us from songwriting
into a usually long and fruitless discussion on religion.
I found the actual diversion into acceptable levels of abstraction in songs
most interesting and informative, and award rmms extra bonus points.
BTW As a curious youth I went along to a few Bahai meetings, a faith which,
allegedly, is trying to unite religions. I stopped abruptly when the lady
that took me there missed her turn off and did a U-turn on a roundabout. I
did not want to meet her God that urgently.
David F. Cox
Flying Tadpole
Antti Luode wrote:
>
>
> The world is full of broken vessels.
>
Yes. Me too. All one can do is get out the [tough epoxy resin of
your choice], stick the bits back together with the odd bit of
chewing gum, tape, whatever, give Fate or Destiny or FOrtune the
finger, and roll on. Ugly compared to the unbroken vessel? Yes.
Obviously patched up? Yes. But human still (or perhaps, after
all)! Farce and tragedy are the two sides of the one coin, the
human condition. We'd all be weeping if we didn't laugh, or at
least spit in Death's eye.
--
Flying Tadpole
-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://music.download.com/internetopera
http://www.soundclick.com/flyingtadpole
Timbo
still wondering about everyones interpretation. I happen to think
lyrics can written with a certain degree of duality...one end being the
emotional response of thie listener, the other being the emotional
response of thie writer. i believe this song (at the beginning of the
thread) holds this characteristic, and I want to see if that is the
case. Just tell me what your response is. I'm very curious to see how
people reacted to it. I want to campare it to my reaction and what the
author attempted to convey.
Kevin Buffardi
they're pretty straight-forward... summed up by: "One religion seems to cage
you / Missing out on everything /Everything else in the world to help you
out"
--
Timbo
OSSONGS
>Message-id: <1woad.1875$6q2...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
>
>
>"Kevin Buffardi" <kbuf...@mwc.edu> wrote in message
>news:2su610F...@uni-berlin.de...
>> > ...if the writer leaves it open to
>> > interpretation than that has to mean he or she isn't exactly sure what
>it
>> means
>>
>> Since when? It's called abstract art. I know of plenty of songs which
>have
>> personal meaning to many listeners that may or may not match with the
>> writer's intentions. It's pretty easy to write a straight-forward lyric.
>> However, to steer the audience to their own conclusions through imagery
>and
>> abstraction -- that takes true artistic creativity.
>>
>> Kevin Buffardi
>> "Rockstars -- is there
>> anything they don't know?"
>> -Homer Simpson
>>
>
>indeed.
>
>I think there are some truly great songs written in a way that allow for
>multiple interpretations, but my warning bell always goes off when I hear
>this phrase used by fellow amateur songwriters. In my experience, 49 times
>out of 50 it means that the songwriter has slapped some words together with
>little thought and even less intention, and then foisted the job of making
>any sense out of this conglomeration onto the artistic sensibilities of the
>listener. >
Some snipped.
Right on top of it, James as you usually are ;-)
Dolores
Timbo
between two good friends. David, I think it was pretty obvious as
well.
-Timbo