About the elusive record deal
Danny T
permission).
I have said the same thing - perhaps without the same strong language,
for years. I often get asked why I would never sign another record
deal, well, this is a well articulated reiteration of my feelings,
exactly (minus the few curse words). (Curse words left in because I
don't like to change others work)
by Steve Albini
Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I
always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a
trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards
long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some
of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of
this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other
end holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed. Nobody
can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and
besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey
shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign
the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle
furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously
and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each
other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's
only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says
"Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim again,
please. Backstroke". And he does of course.
Every major label involved in the hunt for new bands now has on staff
a high-profile point man, an "A & R" rep who can present a comfortable
face to any prospective band. The initials stand for "Artist and
Repertoire." because historically, the A & R staff would select
artists to record music that they had also selected, out of an
available pool of each. This is still the case, though not openly.
These guys are universally young [about the same age as the bands
being wooed], and nowadays they always have some obvious underground
rock credibility flag they can wave.
Lyle Preslar, former guitarist for Minor Threat, is one of them. Terry
Tolkin, former NY independent booking agent and assistant manager at
Touch and Go is one of them. Al Smith, former soundman at CBGB is one
of them. Mike Gitter, former editor of XXX fanzine and contributor to
Rip, Kerrang and other lowbrow rags is one of them. Many of the
annoying turds who used to staff college radio stations are in their
ranks as well. There are several reasons A & R scouts are always
young. The explanation usually copped-to is that the scout will be
"hip to the current musical "scene." A more important reason is that
the bands will intuitively trust someone they think is a peer, and who
speaks fondly of the same formative rock and roll experiences. The A &
R person is the first person to make contact with the band, and as
such is the first person to promise them the moon. Who better to
promise them the moon than an idealistic young turk who expects to be
calling the shots in a few years, and who has had no previous
experience with a big record company. Hell, he's as naive as the band
he's duping. When he tells them no one will interfere in their
creative process, he probably even believes it. When he sits down with
the band for the first time, over a plate of angel hair pasta, he can
tell them with all sincerity that when they sign with company X,
they're really signing with him and he's on their side. Remember that
great gig I saw you at in '85? Didn't we have a blast. By now all rock
bands are wise enough to be suspicious of music industry scum. There
is a pervasive caricature in popular culture of a portly, middle aged
ex-hipster talking a mile-a-minute, using outdated jargon and calling
everybody "baby." After meeting "their" A & R guy, the band will say
to themselves and everyone else, "He's not like a record company guy
at all! He's like one of us." And they will be right. That's one of
the reasons he was hired.
These A & R guys are not allowed to write contracts. What they do is
present the band with a letter of intent, or "deal memo," which
loosely states some terms, and affirms that the band will sign with
the label once a contract has been agreed on. The spookiest thing
about this harmless sounding little memo, is that it is, for all legal
purposes, a binding document. That is, once the band signs it, they
are under obligation to conclude a deal with the label. If the label
presents them with a contract that the band don't want to sign, all
the label has to do is wait. There are a hundred other bands willing
to sign the exact same contract, so the label is in a position of
strength. These letters never have any terms of expiration, so the
band remain bound by the deal memo until a contract is signed, no
matter how long that takes. The band cannot sign to another laborer or
even put out its own material unless they are released from their
agreement, which never happens. Make no mistake about it: once a band
has signed a letter of intent, they will either eventually sign a
contract that suits the label or they will be destroyed.
One of my favorite bands was held hostage for the better part of two
years by a slick young "He's not like a label guy at all," A & R rep,
on the basis of such a deal memo. He had failed to come through on any
of his promises [something he did with similar effect to another well-
known band], and so the band wanted out. Another label expressed
interest, but when the A & R man was asked to release the band, he
said he would need money or points, or possibly both, before he would
consider it. The new label was afraid the price would be too dear, and
they said no thanks. On the cusp of making their signature album, an
excellent band, humiliated, broke up from the stress and the many
months of inactivity. There's this band. They're pretty ordinary, but
they're also pretty good, so they've attracted some attention. They're
signed to a moderate-sized "independent" label owned by a distribution
company, and they have another two albums owed to the label. They're a
little ambitious. They'd like to get signed by a major label so they
can have some security you know, get some good equipment, tour in a
proper tour bus -- nothing fancy, just a little reward for all the
hard work. To that end, they got a manager. He knows some of the label
guys, and he can shop their next project to all the right people. He
takes his cut, sure, but it's only 15%, and if he can get them signed
then it's money well spent. Anyways, it doesn't cost them anything if
it doesn't work. 15% of nothing isn't much! One day an A & R scout
calls them, says he's 'been following them for a while now, and when
their manager mentioned them to him, it just "clicked." Would they
like to meet with him about the possibility of working out a deal with
his label? Wow. Big Break time. They meet the guy, and y'know what --
he's not what they expected from a label guy. He's young and dresses
pretty much like the band does. He knows all their favorite bands.
He's like one of them. He tells them he wants to go to bat for them,
to try to get them everything they want. He says anything is possible
with the right attitude.
They conclude the evening by taking home a copy of a deal memo they
wrote out and signed on the spot. The A & R guy was full of great
ideas, even talked about using a name producer. Butch Vig is out of
the question-he wants 100 g's and three points, but they can get Don
Fleming for $30,000 plus three points. Even that's a little steep, so
maybe they'll go with that guy who used to be in David Letterman's
band. He only wants three points. Or they can have just anybody record
it (like Warton Tiers, maybe-- cost you 5 or 7 grand] and have Andy
Wallace remix it for 4 grand a track plus 2 points. It was a lot to
think about. Well, they like this guy and they trust him. Besides,
they already signed the deal memo. He must have been serious about
wanting them to sign. They break the news to their current label, and
the label manager says he wants them to succeed, so they have his
blessing. He will need to be compensated, of course, for the remaining
albums left on their contract, but he'll work it out with the label
himself.
Sub Pop made millions from selling off Nirvana, and Twin Tone hasn't
done bad either: 50 grand for the Babes and 60 grand for the Poster
Children-- without having to sell a single additional record. It'll be
something modest. The new label doesn't mind, so long as it's
recoupable out of royalties. Well, they get the final contract, and
it's not quite what they expected. They figure it's better to be safe
than sorry and they turn it over to a lawyer--one who says he's
experienced in entertainment law and he hammers out a few bugs.
They're still not sure about it, but the lawyer says he's seen a lot
of contracts, and theirs is pretty good. They'll be great royalty: 13%
[less a 1O% packaging deduction]. Wasn't it Buffalo Tom that were only
getting 12% less 10? Whatever. The old label only wants 50 grand, an
no points. Hell, Sub Pop got 3 points when they let Nirvana go.
They're signed for four years, with options on each year, for a total
of over a million dollars! That's a lot of money in any man's English.
The first year's advance alone is $250,000. Just think about it, a
quarter million, just for being in a rock band! Their manager thinks
it's a great deal, especially the large advance. Besides, he knows a
publishing company that will take the band on if they get signed, and
even give them an advance of 20 grand, so they'll be making that money
too. The manager says publishing is pretty mysterious, and nobody
really knows where all the money comes from, but the lawyer can look
that contract over too. Hell, it's free money. Their booking agent is
excited about the band signing to a major. He says they can maybe
average $1,000 or $2,000 a night from now on. That's enough to justify
a five week tour, and with tour support, they can use a proper crew,
buy some good equipment and even get a tour bus! Buses are pretty
expensive, but if you figure in the price of a hotel room for
everybody In the band and crew, they're actually about the same cost.
Some bands like Therapy? and Sloan and Stereolab use buses on their
tours even when they're getting paid only a couple hundred bucks a
night, and this tour should earn at least a grand or two every night.
It'll be worth it. The band will be more comfortable and will play
better.
The agent says a band on a major label can get a merchandising company
to pay them an advance on T-shirt sales! ridiculous! There's a gold
mine here! The lawyer Should look over the merchandising contract,
just to be safe. They get drunk at the signing party. Polaroids are
taken and everybody looks thrilled. The label picked them up in a
limo. They decided to go with the producer who used to be in
Letterman's band. He had these technicians come in and tune the drums
for them and tweak their amps and guitars. He had a guy bring in a
slew of expensive old "vintage" microphones. Boy, were they "warm." He
even had a guy come in and check the phase of all the equipment in the
control room! Boy, was he professional. He used a bunch of equipment
on them and by the end of it, they all agreed that it sounded very
"punchy," yet "warm." All that hard work paid off. With the help of a
video, the album went like hotcakes! They sold a quarter million
copies! Here is the math that will explain just how fucked they are:
These figures are representative of amounts that appear in record
contracts daily. There's no need to skew the figures to make the
scenario look bad, since real-life examples more than abound. income
is bold and underlined, expenses are not.
Advance: $ 250,000
Manager's cut: $ 37,500
Legal fees: $ 10,000
Recording Budget: $ 150,000
Producer's advance: $ 50,000
Studio fee: $ 52,500
Drum Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $ 3,000
Recording tape: $ 8,000
Equipment rental: $ 5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $ 5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $ 10,000
Catering: $ 3,000
Mastering: $ 10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc. expenses: $ 2,000
Video budget: $ 30,000
Cameras: $ 8,000
Crew: $ 5,000
Processing and transfers: $ 3,000
Off-line: $ 2,000
On-line editing: $ 3,000
Catering: $ 1,000
Stage and construction: $ 3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $ 2,000
Director's fee: $ 3,000
Album Artwork: $ 5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $ 2,000
Band fund: $ 15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $ 5,000
New fancy professional guitars [2]: $ 3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs [2]: $ 4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $ 1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $ 1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $ 500
Big blowout party for their friends: $ 500
Tour expense [5 weeks]: $ 50,875
Bus: $ 25,000
Crew [3]: $ 7,500
Food and per diems: $ 7,875
Fuel: $ 3,000
Consumable supplies: $ 3,500
Wardrobe: $ 1,000
Promotion: $ 3,000
Tour gross income: $ 50,000
Agent's cut: $ 7,500
Manager's cut: $ 7,500
Merchandising advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Publishing advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 =
$3,000,000
Gross retail revenue Royalty: [13% of 90% of retail]:
$ 351,000
Less advance: $ 250,000
Producer's points: [3% less $50,000 advance]:
$ 40,000
Promotional budget: $ 25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $ 50,000
Net royalty: $ -14,000
Record company income:
Record wholesale price: $6.50 x 250,000 =
$1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $ 351,000
Deficit from royalties: $ 14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution: @ $2.20 per record: $
550,000
Gross profit: $ 7l0,000
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of
the game.
Record company: $ 710,000
Producer: $ 90,000
Manager: $ 51,000
Studio: $ 52,500
Previous label: $ 50,000
Agent: $ 7,500
Lawyer: $ 12,000
Band member net income each: $ 4,031.25
The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the
music industry more than 3 million dollars richer, but is in the hole
$14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as
much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour
bus for a month. The next album will be about the same, except that
the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it.
Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no
leverage, and will oblige. The next tour will be about the same,
except the merchandising advance will have already been paid, and the
band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their T-
shirts yet. Maybe the T-shirt guys have figured out how to count money
like record company guys. Some of your friends are probably already
this fucked.
![Dec [Cluskey]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXOIdicD27KLgvp612cXlqNm2cXRNukvx0eyr1XYcUrBeGQQfk=s40-c)
Dec [Cluskey]
> I wanted to reprint this because it is a must read for some. (I have
> permission).
Brilliant article.
It tends to be that way for most 'uneducated bands' ... I was once at
a session, produced by Shel Talmy, when I asked who all the guys were
in the control room he answered: "the nine managers, they each get ten
per cent!".
I won't say who the band was ... you would be shocked!
That article is the reason why I always advise any who ask to get as
educated as you can, both in an academic sense and in a music business
sense.
That is exactly what I did ... it didn't stop us getting ripped off on
occasions at the beginning of our recording career ... but the ripping
off lasted only a short time ... we then dumped the accountants,
advisers etc. and managed our own affairs ... with a manager of
course. A little hard work, but when I consider what that little hard
work has made me through the years? All the guys who have lasted have
done the same thing ... Mick Jagger, Elton, Phil Collins, Hank Marvin,
Bruce Welsh, Brian May, Moody Blues etc.
I see, in the article, that the band expected everything to be done
for them? And there is the big mistake. The 'limo' trick
especially. Yep, we had the limos for a short while ... it stopped
suddenly when we realised who was paying for them.
Remind me to tell you what happened to the guys that tried to muscle
in on our merchandising! Our first major tour ... ten weeks, two
shows a night. They were driving a Mini ... Four big Irish friends
simply picked the car up and walked it to a river ... I won't tell the
rest ... the crooked merchandise guys asked after the show: "please,
just tell us where the car is?" We never saw them again ... I now see
those crooked tour brochures for sale on EBay.
Again .... brilliant article
Dec [Cluskey]
Tom Hendricks / Musea
and at the lowest level!
I think I printed this, or a similar article by Steve Albini in my
zine Musea.
Is this author a writer for Maximum Rock n Roll?
The article that - I believe it was Albini - allowed me to reprint,
was not
as full as yours. Has he updated it?
Either way it is important for musicians to know - that's why so many
musicians
are going as independents marketing through the internet at free
places
like myspace and youtube. Also I Imagine a lot of laid off
music industry types are starting up indies to fight their old bosses
that
laid them off.
One other trick that I've seen record companies do - and I'd like your
comment on
this - is they will take a finished album from an artist (he's done
all the work
and paid all the money), and sign them up. Then release
it with virtually no publicity, and IF it takes off they'll cash in
and invest in a
2nd album. If it doesn't they pretty much dump the artist from any
further
development without releasing them from their contract.This happened
to
Sara Hickman a regional talent here in Texas.
One other comment. you said
"Every major label involved in the hunt for new bands .". If they are
they
are about a half century out of touch. Post-Bands music , the tip of
the iceberg
of the art revolution is making all bands look their age - 50 years
old and
boring. Rock has become everything it started out opposing!
Danny T
My biggest rip off story is a bit different. We had a $50,000 advance
to be use for recording. The record company had the right to grant us
a bigger advance if they decided it was warranted - and they didn't
even have to tell us, they could just give it to us. The money was to
be used at studios of their choice (read belonged to them). We started
recording without realizing all the fees - we could read the fee list
but had no idea exactly how it was to play out.
Producer $xxxxx
Engineer $xxxxx
second engineer $xxxxx
catering $xxxxx
equipment manager $xxxxx
and so on down the list.
We went into an 8 track studio - no kidding.... it was an 8 track
studio and there were two guys that ran the place, an engineer and his
assistant. When we were 5 songs into the project we asked to see our
accounting and got the shock of our lives. The engineer was also the
producer, caterer and about 10 other hats. The assistant engineer was
the equipment manager and of course 10 others hats as well. We paid
for every had at all times! Our record company advanced us a bit more
money without our knowing (as the contract said they could) We had
spent a few dollars shy of $100,000 of advance.
Here's another lessons. Advances are like hard money loans. They have
an interest rate attached and there are no laws that limit advances
when it comes to interest rates. $100,000 started with a 30% interest
rate if paid back in the first 30 days. After that, it went to
something like 70% weekly. By the time we had checked our costs we
owed some ungodly amount and by the time we were pressed and at the
radio stations we owed $400,000 and climbing!
Needless to say we never made a penny on that deal. The contract (as
all do) called for the record company to be able to own all rights and
be able to recoup from all rights. Basically, they owned the band
name, our names, the songs, the writers royalties ..... I could have
burped and they would have owned it!
At the time we started the quest, we had a song that was a bit out of
sync with what our parents would have us playing so the guitar player
and I decided to use fictitious names. That was our only saving grace.
Our vary names are now owned by the record company but the names they
owned were DBA names that he and I legally claimed for the band. The
rest of the band members are not even allowed to use their own names
anymore. They have to perform under something else.
There is another band playing our tunes these days. They don't have
any of the original members but the lead singer uses the nickname of
our old lead singer because, of course, the record company owns that
name. The band consists of a few latinos, a few black skinned guys and
a hairy looking white guy. There is a woman in the band too. The band
started out with 5 skinny white guys......... no one even ever thinks
to ask.
Anyway, our hit song has been remade by countless other acts and we
have never seen a dime from it. We made quite a bit touring at the
time because we went on the cheap and did a lot of overseas gigs that
we setup on our own with our own tour group - we owned that part of
us. The band didn't last though when we realized that we'd never make
a dime under that name with those songs.
Technically I am not legally allowed to even tell anyone I was in the
band. I can not use my stage name without written consent which is
something that I will never get.
No one can stop me from posting links to bands of interest so maybe
I'll do that.
Here is an interesting link. I'll point out a really great looking
guy playing keyboards back in 1983- in the red shirt
http://www.thetoyes.com/toyes1983.html
Here's a link of the same band today. Its really funny how evolution
works - Look how tan the keyboard player got!
http://www.thetoyes.com/Jawgeseattle31.html
here is some more of the band now ~
http://www.thetoyes.com/Fullyseattle29.html
http://www.thetoyes.com/toyesseattle35.html
Now, Dec, I know you still promote the record deal. I always promote
doing it yourself...... I guess this will explain our different
opinions :-)
I really think that it is never worth it to take a "deal" since you
can not guarantee you will be one of the lucky bands that actually
gets past the rip off stage. ALL bands go through the rip off stage.
You will not get a good first deal. You usually don't get a good
second deal. The record deal trick is to roll the dice hope you can
hang on for 5 to 10 years. When the deal runs out you can promote
yourself and at that time you can make some good money....
I look at the record deal a bit like I look at becoming a doctor. If
the only reason you do it is for the big money you probably should
not. Doctors do not break even from student loans until their early
40's in most cases. They don't actually get to spend any of their
money for a good 15 years of working. Bands that sign deals are the
same. They are dirt poor for at least 10 years. They are expected to
put up a successful front with all the money dripping off of them but
in reality, they are dirt poor (I do recall a lot of perks like free
clothing and restaurants giving you free food so their regulars will
see you in their shop but you get tired of people starring at you)
If you start out on your own, in 5 years you can be making a healthy,
steady living without anyone over your head. I once posted a breakdown
of how that works. I think you (Dec) posted that on your sight. I
really believe that all people that know, should promote exactly, and
only that. We should boycott any form of a union and ALL major labels.
We should find and help promote the producers that are fair and no one
should make a killing unless everyone does.
The days of the big companies is gone if we want it to be. Its up to
us. We need to charge for our talent and be smart enough to rule the
roost. Learning the biz these days should mean knowing where you are
valuable and applying good work ethics to be there and do the work.
The days of huge radio stars is over. Major label acts have greatly
declining record sales. The actual numbers are sadly funny. A small
named act working hard makes so much more then almost all signed acts
these days that it makes no sense to sign. The roll of the dice has
lost it odds - and those odds sucked to begin with!
Anyway, I'll never sign another deal.
Danny T
wrote:
I get going on this stuff like a preacher on the corner due to my
past. I just posted a not to Dec that might explain things. It gets
really ugly because you usually sign other papers that say you will or
will not do certain things. Actors and athletes often sign morality
clauses but musicians often sign clauses that keep them from saying
anything bad about company or their affiliates, promoters or business
partners.
Its been 25 years for me since I had that nasty deal but I still get
fired up when I think about it. People are still making money off of
my art and I never made a penny from it.
I realize that i might have some repercussion from the other post but
since legally I didn't do anything wrong I'd love to see them bring a
suit against me. If they did, I'd be able to expose them and all they
did and if they let the public know, I would be back in business under
that name.... Unless they do I can't so I know they won't.... sigh, oh
well.....
Dec [Cluskey]
Danny
Yep ... I do remember your band fondly. And I must say you're early
band pics. are as bad as mine [grin!]
<<<<<<ALL bands go through the rip off stage.>>>>>>>>
I maintain that the lenght of the rip off stage directly equates with
the level of education, both academic and musical business - of at
least one of the members [I was the one!]
Very quickly, we had the most amazing story. We actually recorded our
first real session [after a disastrous audition session around the
same time as the disastrous Beatles audition session for Decca] on a
straight 'session fee' .. £7.50 if my memory is right. Produced by
Shel Talmy [Kinks, The Who etc.... still a close friend and still
producing, although now sadly blind]
When one of the four tracks recorded [yes, 4 tracks in 3 hours!]
became a hit, the infamous Dick Rowe [who famously turned down The
Beatles] sneaked into the contracts department at Decca, on The
Embankment in London.... extracted the receipts signed by us for the
session and substituted a proper contract. What a guy? He was a huge
influence in business method, style as in life style, charm and all
the rest. Lovely recording mentor. Although he never gave me a
credit for producing. After three years we then changed the contract
so that we produced everything and leased to Decca. I was with Dick
when he died and organised his funeral. His son was the boss of CBS
Music in the States for a long while ... lost track now ... Richard B.
Rowe.
We had a Zvengali on our side .... the legend Philip Solomon [sadly
very ill from a botched up recent operation plus hospital bugs] I do
hope he survives.
It is now said that my band propped up The Decca Record Company
financially right through the Sixties! Our PR man was Tony Barrow
[the Beatles guy] ... he sent me, yesterday, two of his books ...
John, Paul, George, Ringo and Me ... I had no idea he wrote that! The
other is a record business book.
I can tell a very different story of the benefits of *knowing* the
business ... which I always advise anyone who asks to do.
I was given a tremendous girl vocal talent years ago ... I recorded
one demo. She thrilled me with her ability to 4 track her voice.
Right up my street, being a harmonies man. It was just before mobile
phones and I remember calling four record company bosses from call
boxes in London. Two of them bit. I immediately went around to see
Bernard Delfont [the then boss of EMI and the brother of the guy who
gave us huge breaks on Television ... Leslie Grade, Michael Grade's
father .... now head of ITV Television in the UK]. Small world? I
met Michael at Heathrow Airport the other week .. we had a laugh!
Bernard simply loved his own hair ... it was 'the business' ... and
told me that "my wife couldn't do it this morning .... what do you
think? I did it myself?" He was a Water Rat [my charity]. So I just
said all the right things and walked out with a deal [if I wanted it]
I then went around to see his friendly rival Louis Benjamin [boss of
Pye Records] ... told him of the EMI deal and immediately had an
auction on my hands ... neither of them had even asked to see the
girl! Not even a photo.
I got a huge advance and I do mean huge [which I retained 50% of] ...
recorded a full album, which they paid for [I negotiated the
contract]...I wrote the vocal arrangements and 4 of the orchestral
arrangements ... got three top arrangers to do the other nine, telling
them who was doing the others .... so you can imagine the rivalry and
the quality. All my top session pals [even the Liverpool Philharmonic
Orchestra!]
Played the finished album to the entire staff at Pye ... they were
knocked out! They still had not seen her or met her!
I won't prolong the story ... you can tell I like telling it?
Eventually they met her !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoops!
I even got a phone call from the company: "would you please take your
girl away from our studio ... she is screwing every musician in
sight ... and even the cleaners!"
She would not listen when I advised her what she had to do to
succeed ... weight, hair, clothes, teeth etc. stop drinking pints [I
kid you not!]. Eventually, after two flop singles everyone lost
interest ... I then heard that she had been recording new material
secretly [ but the studio told me? They even sent me the
recordings] . A manager appeared on the scene ... he wanted to buy
her contract.... certainly!
I asked for a silly amount ... guess what? He paid it! She has never
been heard of since!
So there is another side to the record business! The side where
education and music knowledge is king! It is just so important to
learn our business and learn it well. I once asked Michael Crawford
was he picking up PPL royalties. "What are they?" ... Whoops! I
said: "someone is!" He said "my manager would know about that" .. I
said sarcastically: "I am sure he does" ... needless to say, months
afterwards he thanked me so much.
Dec [Cluskey] I've got a million stories!
Cydne Singer
transplanted ( rudely ripped up? ) from my old diggs in Hollywood,
spending 5 months of HELL with an alcoholic brother, and then getting a
teeny tiny ( smaller than my old digs ) apartment on a highway to
nowhere near ( meaning I have to bus to get groceries as I do not drive
and I am NOT gonna wait for a bus when it is 110 and it is close to that
tomorrow ). Soooo I have been a bit depressed and frazzled over
everything and have felt like singing or writing songs much ( though
have been working a little on fantasy writing, my other passion ).
I am posting this to let you ( Danny and Dec ) know how much I have
enjoyed hearing your stories.
Here are a few of my own: Years ago I can remember being approached by
a song publisher. When I mentioned the words "adminsitrative deal" you
could have cut through the ice that fomred with a knife! Also at the
time the big bone of contention with a lot of people was creative
control. No one was mentioning owning their publishing or said anything
about money.
And like myself at the time ( but once I found out I told others ) that
it was the artist who would be the one who paid for the recording and
the company that would own the masters they paid for. Once the internet
started to happen I told folks they needed to do it themselves and get
their material online. And yet... it seems that most of the people I
know that are in bands STILL want that record deal...
People in bands need to know about the business end of it or they will
get screwed and royally. But you are both right. In the beginning
everyone expects all the perks and don't seem to get that they are
giving up their rights and that they are paying for everything. It is as
if they are the food for a vampire's feast -- and then they are
presented the bill for being bled dry! Penny wise and pound foolish --
but those who are giving the penny expect you to pay that back and with
interest!
As far as making money, ah if we were only 23 and knew coding and could
put up a spiffy little website like yahoo or facebook or myspace that
would translate into a billion dollar plus payoff... why do we live in a
world that overvalues tech ( 47 something billion for yahoo and they
turn it DOWN? ) and yet art is still devalued. I would soooo love to see
that change. He who owns the company is he who makes the money. The rest
are just peons...
May the next internet revolution be for content.
Cyd
~~~ http://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/JustMySites/
~~~~ Biting at the bars, clawing at the cage; the wildcat of creativity
howls its frustration. Bent up and stifled, it now rages with a
relentless vengance, shrieking its song of ambition, wanting to be heard
above the dim muttering of the negativers. Rain on my parade --- I will
laugh difiantly, grabbing the silver drops to splice them into rainbows
for cloud linings. Glasses half empty spill not a drop of their
Job-comforter vitriol acidic platitudes onto the lemons I am squeezing
to make lemonade and then market it for my dreams. Biting at the bars, I
will bite them like they were candy sticks and then I will prowl into
the future of my success. CHS 4-22-08 Cat City
http://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/ComfortSong/
Dec [Cluskey]
Cydne
I read your post with interest. I get a lot of Emails from guys
exactly in your position ... they rarely like my comments.
<<<<<<<<I can remember being approached by a song publisher>>>>>>>
It is a fact of life that any publisher will sign up any writer ...
fact of life! It is only a piece of paper. No advance, no non
recoupable signing fee [that is where you really know they want your
material].
They will then sit on your material until you get fed up with their
inactivity on your behalf and you get out and do the job properly -
yourself .. as you should have done in the first place. When the
success comes, if it does come, after you realise you should write
stuff that the public actually want to buy, then the original
publisher will suddenly appear out of the woodwork and claim his 50%.
My advice is to always do it yourself from the start ... learn the
business, then start your own music publishing business ... not a plug
- but go to http://www.makehits.com/publishing.htm and see how cheap
and easy it is.
<<<<<<<<Once the internet started to happen I told folks they needed
to do it themselves and get their material online.>>>>>>>
Sadly that advice is flawed. It encourages music makers to upload
their stuf and then sit back and 'wait for the phone to ring' ... same
scenario as having your music with a publisher. The Internet side of
any business is only an adjunct to the bricks and mortar side. It
cannot and will not stand on it's own.
I was speaking with the boss of Universal, in the UK, the other
day ... he said "Dec, can you send that over to me" ... I said "you
don't use MP3?" ... "are you serious?" was his reply ... "just
checking" I said ... you see, no one in the real business has got the
time to listen to computer stuff .... Emails get lost ... attachments
are dumped into thrash files ... no one will open attachments [too
dangerous]... So the whole idea of conducting business on the Net is
flawed .. at least at the top end.
The quality if 'iffy' ... download links are 'iffy' ... in fact the
whole Net music scene is 'iffy'. ?We all know the quality from a lap-
top? which is the preferred work place for any executive [I use one
all the time]
<<<<<<bands STILL want that record deal>>>>>>>
Quite right. It is the bands responsibility to sell the first 20
white labels ... then 200 ... then 2,000 ... then country wide sell
20,000 .... it is then the record company's job to turn that 20,000
into 20 Mill ... that is where the power of the record company comes
in. But it is the band/artist's job to sell the first 20 ....
<<<<<<< In the beginning everyone expects all the perks >>>>>>
We got none, and expected none ... our first contract [I still have
it] is on one small page of A4 paper ... just about six paragraphs....
end of story. We starved and froze our butts off ... but when the
time came we were glad we did .... we then made serious money....
Guitars provided by Gibson ... amps by Selmer [at the time, state of
the art] ... clothes by Hardy Amies [the Queen's designer]. We still
have the majority of our equipment provided. The boss of Fender drove
down to my home the other week to take my Strat and have it
refurbished to showroom standard .... totally free!
<<<<<<< if we were only 23 and knew coding and could put up a spiffy
little website like yahoo or facebook or myspace that would translate
into a billion dollar plus payoff>>>>>>>>
Sadly pipedreams!
<<<<<<<<He who owns the company is he who makes the money>>>>>>>>>
So, why not own the company? That is what I did! But name me a
musician willing to work the 16 hour days that I do?
Put up with the aggravation, the problems, the insults .... but at the
end of the day, end up with the dosh and the sheer thrill of knowing
that what you do is so appreciated by so many.
As I always say: "it is only hard work". And always remember that
success, fame and fortune will bring the hatred and the jealousy!
Fact!
Who said it? "I've tried rich and I've tried poor - I prefer rich
everytime!" [Bette Davis?] And the music industry is still the
easiest way to get rich. But you have to have the knowledge to get
rich.
Dec [Cluskey] "It's not boasting when you can back it up" - Muhammad
Ali
Dec [Cluskey]
Sorry Cydne ... wrong link to the publishing page ... should be
http://www.makehits.co.uk/publishing.htm
Dec [Cluskey]
Cydne Singer
pipe dream but defintely still a doable dream for someone with the
vision and a heck of a lot of luck ( for all the ones who become
billionaires there are thousands who became nothingaires and went belly
up ).
As far as 16/18 hour days --- you are spot on about that! A person has
to have the passion. It is too bad that often musicians and even good
musicians, would rather goof off ( that was my experience, at any rate,
with too many flakes in Hollywood ). To me making a promse is important.
Maybe means maybe but yes means I am there regardless of the
inconvenience ( unless I have a major flu bout or there is a dead in the
family, something like that ).
When it comes to those long hours, it is true that someone doing their
own company and being their own boss is going to do that and that is
true within any business, not just music. And yes, a person has to be
relentless driven, they have to believe they will succeed.
My motto is to never stop trying, to believe in your dream regardless of
the naysayers or the odds. And oh yeah, try and have some sort of back
up plan as well.
Cyd.
Dec [Cluskey]
> Actually those coding geniuses ARE making bilion dollar deals -- not my
> My motto is to never stop trying, to believe in your dream regardless of
> the naysayers or the odds. And oh yeah, try and have some sort of back
> up plan as well.
> Cyd.
Cyd
Not sure what you mean by 'coding genius'? I am sure a lot of readers
will not either?
If you mean writing computer code [HTML, T-SQL etc.] then you are
almost right ... for every one who is making a lot there are hundreds
of thousands who are scraping a living. The boom days are over in the
Internet servicing world ... the big earners are now in Relocation
expertise [met a guy last night making fortunes] ... IT position
placing [meaning having many experts on your books and placing them
with world wide IT companies short of expert staff]. My daughter is
married to a guy with business all over Europe ... mega bucks! He
thinks a 16 hour day is a luxury!
<<<<<<<someone with the vision and a heck of a lot of luck >>>>>>>
In my experience, and in the experience of many more who 'made it' ...
there is no such thing as luck in any business ... just as there is no
such thing as 'right time, right place' .... I heard a brilliant
lecture on the subject recently and the lecturer put it beautifully
"it is about awareness ... awareness of the opportunity .... the
awareness brings the luck, the right time, the right place" ....
nicely put.
In my book, if you have the knowledge, the skill, the techniques, the
aptitude for conscientious hard work [coupled with smart work], then
it is IMPOSSIBLE to not come across the right time and the right
place ..... the luck is only for the 'flakes' as you put it so well.
<<<<<<And yes, a person has to be relentless driven, they have to
believe they will succeed.>>>>>>>>
There are many ways of putting this ... I call it 'killer
attitude' ... being prepared to walk over dead bodies to get there.
There are many other similar ideas: "The Secret" ... "The Law of
Attraction" ... "The Synergy in the Universe" etc. etc. ... all
basically saying that it is YOU that has to do it .... no one else.
Success in music is a 'journey' ... it is not a destination.
Dec [Cluskey]
.... now I must answer 187 Emails! Crazy? Then my list of 'things
to do today'. Still, as my mother used to say: "keeps me off the
streets!"
Cydne Singer
red hen-ing it" ( the story of the little red hen was of a little red
hen who asked others in the barn yard to help her but they were all too
busy and so she did it herself ).
By luck I meant that it sometimes not up to us. For every myspace that
takes off there is a Friendster that bites the dust. By coding I meant
people who are computer programmers.
By luck I meant that it is the fickle public that often is the one who
makes the final decision.
But the right promotion and marketing can help them make up their fickle
minds.
It does help to do ones research. And in spite of that there are people
who do well while others fail and through no fault of their own.
But one does need to do their homework work their butts off, and then
"strike while the iron is hot."
Cyd
Dec [Cluskey]
> But one does need to do their homework work their butts off, and then
> "strike while the iron is hot."
> Cyd
Cyd
<<<<<<< it is the fickle public that often is the one who makes the
final decision.>>>>>>>>>>
It is *always* the fickle public who make the decision .... they only
buy what they WANT .... not what disgruntled songwriters feel that
they need!
<<<<<<<<there are people who do well while others fail and through no
fault of their own.>>>>>>>>>
The ones who consistenly do well are those who learn their business
and then practice what they learn ... the ones who fail are those who
do not listen to that advice, feel they know it all [ they probably
had a minor hit in 1964] ... this is a game that changes every three
months and those who understand that change are the ones who make it
and continue to earn ... the rest wait around whinging ... waiting for
the right time, the right place ... waiting for 'luck' to come their
way.
Meanwhile 55 comes around everso quick and then they moan that today's
music is garbage, it's all fixed anyway ... and by the way what do you
think of the esoteric message in the third line of the fifth verse of
the fantastic song [that everyone loves at the open mike night] that
is posted on MySpace? [with the other couple of Million]
Dec [Cluskey]
"With this much effort and this much work and this much effort it is
IMPOSSIBLE to fail" [a nice message to yourself on a post-it note ...
on your computer]
David F. Cox
"Dec [Cluskey]" <d...@makehits.com> wrote in message
news:ff53dd6f-8ebf-4150...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Cyd
Dec [Cluskey]
"No such thing as luck ..."
My favourite rags to riches story was a guy who fixed up cars as a sideline
so he could afford his career of choice - teaching.
He bought the cars at auction, but they kept breaking down on the way to his
yard. One day a car transporter came up, and he bought it to get the
non-runners back to his yard. One day that broke down, and he left it by the
side of the road. His phone rang - it was a rep from a Japanese car
manufacturer. He had seen one of his transporters (he only had one) "parked
by the roadside" and was looking for people to bid for the contract for
transporting cars from the new factory they were building in England.
He got the contract, and there was an enormous amount of luck involved.
There was also preparation and seizin the moment. If he had not painted up
the old transporter so that it looked like something , if he had not painted
his telephone number on the side, if he had not had the presence of mind to
say "My fleet is all tied up at the moment." ...
I would say plan to succeed, but also prepare for success. Too many get the
chance that they had hoped for, but are not ready for it when it happens.
There is bad luck too, but "It's all preparation."
David F. Cox
Cydne Singer
for the success and be ready for it.
As far as being lucky, I had opportunities galore when I was around
18-19 years old. I had some famous people in the Industry who literally
begged me to sing. I had a beautiful voice ( I am vain enough to believe
I still have a beautiful voice but it is much much different from the
voice I had years ago ). BUT I had horrible stage fright at the time.
I suppose one could look back at that time and go "You blew it" but the
truth is I was not ready. Yes, I had a beautiful voice and I was young
and had the look. But I was not ready and so I passed on that
opportunity. I do not regret it because I was also part of a decadant
life style at the time ( sex, drugs and rock and roll ), a lifestyle I
saw kill some of my peers. THAT might of been end result of whom I could
have ended up if I had grabbed onto that star at the time. I was on fire
to dance at the time ( Janis Jopplin once referred to me as the "flame"
to her "Torch", my being the dancer, her being the singer ). There were
no stages for legitimate rock dancers back then so I did not achieve the
fame and fortune I might have had if I did not have the stage fright as
a singer. But my motivation had always been my love of music ( a part of
it still is though now I would like to reap some success for my
endeavors and hope that will happen ).
I do have a game plan, a marketing strategy and I will be ready for all
aspects of whatever the future holds.
It is certainly hard work during the time of preparation and also once
one achieves success. And if they want to be more than a one hit wonder
then they will need to continue to work hard, and often harder than
during the struggle to succeed.
Danny T
wrote:
David,
I have to say there is a ton of right place right time in my life. I
have had all likes of luck throughout. I had the talent to back it up
apparently but the timing and luck was certainly all over the place!
Let me just give you a few of these lucky times to think about and see
if you can explain it any other way.....
I'm playing in a bar in Honolulu in a T-40 band. I had just written a
song as a joke 2 days earlier and the band thought it was funny so we
were dorking around with it for about minutes in rehearsal. Outside
the club it was pouring and inside at 1am there were about 4 people at
the back of the bar drinking. We decided to run through the joke song
since no one was there to care and what do you know, a record label
guy walks up to us, loves the song and offers us a contract! (now -
like all contracts it turned into a nightmare but non-the-less, what
are the odds)
How about this one, I meet a girl in college get her number wrong and
call the wrong number. The girl on the other end of the phone has the
same name as the girl I met and I have the same first name of the guy
she just met. We both think we're meeting someone else and I show up
at here house to pick her up for the date. It turns into a roaring
laugh thing and at the door, we hit it off and end up dating a few
times. While at the door though, her mothers boyfriend hears the
laughing and comes over to meet see what's up. He gets in on the
conversation and we start talking about music. He needs music for a
work out video and I end up doing 4 tunes for it.
I show up to Santa Monica airport to meet a friend to go to lunch over
in Catalina. My friend call me on my prehistoric cell phone to tell me
something came up and he can't make it. I sort of stand out and stare
into space while a lady walks by and asks me for directions. She is
completely lost and on the wrong side of town. She's never going to
make her meeting so she asks me for a good place to eat and I say that
my lunch buddy just bailed out on me. I tell her I'll take her to a
good place and I'll drive. I take her over to my plane and she's blown
away. We go for lunch and it turns out that she's a new york ad agency
person that came out to meet with a composer - no luck there.... I end
up with a mountain of work from her agency!
The luck stories goes on and on. Its true that I put my foot in a lot
of doors and with Orion TV I was completely A personality when I
slipped into a runners position to distribute my tunes (that's a whole
other story) but there has been so much luck in my life it's a book
waiting to happen......
Flying Tadpole
becomes all consuming. So I'm making hay while the sun shines but the
music suffers. But then at my age I _need_ that pension fund to be
stuffed full ;) Sometimes, harsh realities are, um, harsh realities!
Tim
Cydne Singer wrote:
> Doing it oneself -- that is the trick of it. I refer to it as "little
> red hen-ing it" ( the story of the little red hen was of a little red
> hen who asked others in the barn yard to help her but they were all too
> busy and so she did it herself ).
>
--
Flying Tadpole
----------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/timfatchen
http://www.soundclick.com/flyingtadpole
Cydne Singer
I am not overly fond of littlredenning it but sometimes there is no
other alternative.
I am getting a Macbook very soon ( I am inpatient as all get out ) so
hopeuflly I will be able to do some things on it musically and also some
networking as well ( have voice will barter sort of thing hehe ).
Cyd
~~~ http://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/JustMySites/
~~~~The mockery of spring has wounded me with its variables. It will
seem as if it were the shadow to cover me from June that will not be the
Angeleno gloom. The roaring lion of summer will comes raging in to
devour the dreams of winter's recollections. I will hiberate through the
day-wave of heat until evening sings her desert mountain song with a
flame draped purple melody. 5-21-08 CHS Cat City
http://community-2.webtv.net/Cynthiangel/ComfortSong/
Matt
"Danny T" <danny...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3daaf62c-9fac-4e6a...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
That's a great post though Danny. The best way to learn is by experience
and I appreciate you sharing yours. Hopefully you'll save someone else from
the crap you've had to be dragged through.
-Matt-
www.livemusiciancentral.com