What are great piano concertos?
iainb...@usa.net
What are great piano concertos?
I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
of other favorites would be appreciated.
-- Iain
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Jim Sluga
I believe that Mozart's are considered the finest. Beethoven's five are
all excellent. I have heard that the fourth is the best.
iainb...@usa.net wrote in article <6fdrd1$kbi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Mario Bruneau
iainb...@usa.net a écrit:
> What are great piano concertos?
>
> I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
> The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
> of other favorites would be appreciated.
>
> -- Iain
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Iain,my favorite piano concerto is from KATCHATOURIAN, an Armenian contempory
composer. I beleive he wrote only one so you can't miss it.
Mario Bruneau
Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
remove NOSPAM to reply via email: pmb...@concentric.net
Vincent Renaud
iainb...@usa.net wrote:
: What are great piano concertos?
: I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
: The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
: of other favorites would be appreciated.
: -- Iain
: -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
: http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Well I would say :
Gershwin : piano concerto in F
Samuel Barber : piano concerto (...)
Mozart : piano concerto 20
Ravel : piano concerto in G major
friendly,
--
/ RENAUD Vincent
(----) Ecole des Mines de Nantes
(====< ren...@eleve.emn.fr
(____) http://www.emn.fr/eleves/promo94-98/Renaud/Homepage.html
James K. Hsu
My favorite: Rachmaninoff 3
JasonM4320
iainb...@usa.net wrote:
> What are great piano concertos?
>
> I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
> The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
> of other favorites would be appreciated.
>
> -- Iain
I enjoy the Barber piano concerto for good drama and drive...and Scriabin's
"Prometheus" for harmony and color (which is something like a piano concerto,
but not exactly). Ravel's G major is probably among my favorite.
Sudhir D. Kadkade
If you like Chopin's piano concertos, you might also like Hummel's.
Johann Nepomuk Hummel was a student of W. A. Mozart. His
piano concertos are highly ornamented as are Chopin's.
The only recording I have heard is the one on Chandos (CHAN 8507.)
The soloist is Stephen Hough and he accompanied by the English Chamber
Orchestra directed by Bryden Thomson. I like this performance a lot,
although I cannot compare it to any other performance.
Regards,
Sudhir
raj...@starmail.com
In article <6fdrd1$kbi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
iainb...@usa.net wrote:
>
> What are great piano concertos?
>
> I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
> The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
> of other favorites would be appreciated.
>
Beethoven Piano Concerti (Vladimir Ashkenazy/Chicago SO/Solti - Decca)
Beethoven Choral Fantasy and Triple Concerto (Peter Rösl/Dresden
Radio/Herbert Kegel - Capriccio) Liszt Piano Concerti (Krystian
Zimmerman/Boston SO/Ozawa-DG or of course Sviatoslav Richter/LSO/Kirill
Kondrashin - Philips. Latter does not incl. Totentanz) Rach 4 and Ravel G
(Arturo Beneditti Michelangeli/Philharmonia/A Gracis -EMI) Rach Concerti with
Paganini Variations (Earl Wild/RPO/Jascha Horenstein - Chandos, orig on
Reader's Digest issue) Saint-Saens : Piano Concerti (Pascal Rogé/London
Orchs/Charles Dutoit - Decca or in not-so-good sound Jean-Michel Darré/French
Radio/Louis Fouriestier -EMI) Prokofiev : Piano Concerti 1-5 (Vladimir
Ashkenazy/LSO/Andé Previn - Decca) Bartök : Piano Concerti 1-3 (Peter Donohoe
/ CBSO / Simon Rattle - EMI) Busoni : Piano Concerto (Garrick
Ohlsson/Cleveland chorus and orch/C von Dohnanyi - Telarc) Brahms: Piano
Concerto no 1 (Stephen Kovacevich/LPO/Sawallisch - EMI) Brahms: Piano
Concerto no 2 (Sviatoslav Richter/Chicago SO/Leinsdorf - RCA/BMG)
I could go on, but my fingers hurt. These versions were chosen after careful
listening of alternatives, and reading critical analysis of people who have
heard (nearly?) all of the available alternatives!
Good Luck!
Rajeev Aloysius
raj...@starmail.com
Grant
In my opinion all of the following offer great listening:
Beethoven - 1-5
Mozart - 20, 19, 9, ...well, about all of them come to think of it
Haydn - D major
Grieg
Tchaikovsky - #1
Schumann
Liszt #2 & Totentanz
Brahms #2
Rachmaninoff - #2, 3 & Paganini Rhapsody
Prokofiev 1-3
Ravel - Both of em
Khachaturian
Shostokovitch - Both
Mendelssohn - Both
Bartok - #1-3
Barber
Good listening.
Grant
Jason Sifford
Off the top of my head:
Bach - d minor
Haydn - #12
Mozart - everything K.271 and after
Beethoven #1-5 (I especially like 3 and 4)
Mendelssohn - g minor
Schumann - a minor
Brahms - 1 and 2
Tchaikovsky - 1
Chopin 2 (just makin' sure you know about #2!)
Liszt - 2 and "Totentanz" (personally, I think #1 is a piece of doo doo)
Prokofiev - all except #4
Ravel - both
Barber
Bartok - all 3
Menotti - fun!
Lutoslawski - wierd!
Khatchaturian - the Kapell recording!
Shostakovich 2
Ligeti - if you like listening to SCREAMING SCREAMING SCREAMING
Rachmaninoff 1, 2, 3, and the Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini
Since you mention the Chopin, the next ones you might look into are
Rachmaninoff 2, Ravel G major, and the Schumann, enjoy!
iainb...@usa.net wrote in message <6fdrd1$kbi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>What are great piano concertos?
>
>I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
>The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any
suggestions
>of other favorites would be appreciated.
>
>-- Iain
William R. Jones
Hello all ...
I have noticed that when I use the damper pedal on a Steinway D, the
overall timbre changes quite noticeably. The sound becomes softer, yes,
but also a bit more 'tinny'. Have others noticed this? Is this just a
characteristic of the D? Any thoughts...?
William
Diane Wilson
For something I haven't seen mentioned...
Poulenc! Piano Concerto, Concerto for Two Pianos, Aubade for Piano and
18 instruments.
--
Diane Wilson | Marriage is really tough because
anon-...@anon.twwells.com | you have to deal with feelings
http://www.lava.net/~dewilson/ | and lawyers.
http://www.acm.org/chapters/trichi/ | --Richard Pryor
Dickson 3.1
In article <351B0DA8...@nospam.nr.infi.net>,
Grant <gran...@nospam.nr.infi.net> wrote:
>In my opinion all of the following offer great listening:
>
>Beethoven - 1-5
>Mozart - 20, 19, 9, ...well, about all of them come to think of it
I like your list, but I would add
Mozart - no. 21, 26, 27
Chopin - no. 1 & 2
Dickson 3.1
zanzibar
Beethoven't 4th has always been my favorite
Fernando González del Cueto
iainb...@usa.net wrote in message <6fdrd1$kbi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>What are great piano concertos?
>
>I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
>The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any
suggestions
>of other favorites would be appreciated.
Beethoven's 5th. My favorite!
Fernando.
Yi-kuan Jong
My favorites are
Beethoven nos. 3-5 especially 5
Rachmaninov no. 2 and no. 3
Bach concerto for piano and concerti for cembolo(cembolos ??)
Tchaikovsky no. 1
Brahms no. 2 (no. 1 is not bad though)
some Mozart's piano concerti
regards,
Joey
In article <351AB414...@netscape.com>,
James K. Hsu <jame...@netscape.com> wrote:
>My favorite: Rachmaninoff 3
>
>iainb...@usa.net wrote:
>
>> What are great piano concertos?
>>
>> I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
>> The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
>> of other favorites would be appreciated.
>>
Chris Newman
My vote goes unquestionably to Saint Saens No 2 - gotta be the most fun
concerto of all time (I can't sit still when listening to it)
IMHO of course!
Chris N
____
iainb...@usa.net wrote in message <6fdrd1$kbi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Alexander N. Andreyev
Well, I know some great piano concertos, but I also know that cross-posters
are NOT as great.
>What are great piano concertos?
I think, everything depends on the pianist, but these are my favourite.
Mozart. Piano Concerto #27 in B flat major, K.595.
Brahms. Piano Concerto #1 in D minor.
Rahmaninov. Piano Concerto #2 in C minor.
Boris Repschinski, S.J.
Sudhir D. Kadkade wrote
If you are indeed interested in exploring the Hummel concertos, there is a
rather good disc on Naxos. Performers escape me right now, but from what I
remember, the playing was very animated and engaging, with a good recording
to boot.
____________________
Boris Repschinski
andre...@bigfoot.com
In article <6fe56c$a...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "Jim Sluga"
<jimm...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I believe that Mozart's are considered the finest. Beethoven's five are
> all excellent. I have heard that the fourth is the best.
i agree with everything you said. and i would say beethoven's 4th is also
the most difficult.
andre...@hotmail.com
> What are great piano concertos?
>
> I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
> The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
> of other favorites would be appreciated.
>
> -- Iain
just curious...anybody ever heard of paderewski's piano concerto?
ca...@mailbox.difi.unipi.it
In article <351B0DA8...@nospam.nr.infi.net>,
Grant <gran...@nospam.nr.infi.net> wrote:
>
> In my opinion all of the following offer great listening:
I mostly agree. To offer a much shorter list:
Mozart: all the "late" concertos, but start with n. 20, 21, 23.
Beethoven n. 3, 5.
Schumann.
Brahms n. 2.
--
Massimo Campostrini,
Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare, Sezione di Pisa.
luis-m...@telecom.pt
In article <6fdrd1$kbi$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
iainb...@usa.net wrote:
>
> What are great piano concertos?
>
> I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
> The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any
suggestions
> of other favorites would be appreciated.
>
> -- Iain
Hello Iain,
I also love Chopin's 1st Piano Concerto. Here are another top choices:
Rachmaninov: 2nd and 3rd
Mozart: 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
Beethoven: 3rd and 4rd
Chopin: 2nd
This are my favorite ones.
Take care,
Luis
---------------------------------------------
Luis Miguel de Araujo Afonso
email: luis-m...@telecom.pt
url: http://www.terravista.pt/PortoSanto/1090
---------------------------------------------
Mike Holme
Grant wrote:
>
> In my opinion all of the following offer great listening:
>
> Mozart - 20, 19, 9, ...well, about all of them come to think of it
> Grieg
> Tchaikovsky - #1
> Schumann
> Liszt #2 & Totentanz
> Brahms #2
> Rachmaninoff - #2, 3 & Paganini Rhapsody
> Prokofiev 1-3
> Ravel - Both of em
> Khachaturian
> Shostokovitch - Both
> Mendelssohn - Both
> Bartok - #1-3
> Barber
>
> Good listening.
>
> Grant
You like all these but not the Scriabin Concerto, what's the problem
with this one ?
Mike Holme
Yuzhi
> I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
> The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any
suggestions
> of other favorites would be appreciated.
>
> -- Iain
Mozart's #20, still feel myself holding my breath after listening to it the
umpteenth time.
Louise
spamk...@free.org
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:17:24 -0600, iainb...@usa.net wrote:
>What are great piano concertos?
>
>I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
>The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
>of other favorites would be appreciated.
I take it you mean Chopin's E minor which was composed after his F
minor (op.21, which is also very good if you haven't already noticed.)
He published the E minor first simply because the orchestral parts of
the F minor score were misplaced for a while.
My recommendations in order of preference:
Chopin op.11: Zimerman on DG
op.21: Vasary on DG
Scriabin: Askenazy on Decca/London
Schumann: Zimerman on DG
Andre.
(My real address is
mazurka at rocketmail dot com
Sorry for the incovenience.)
Grant
I like that one too...it just didn't come to mind at the time. I also
forgot to mention the Saint-Saens 5th concerto and other more obscure
ones that I like (like the Medtner 2nd for example). I think the PC is
about my favorite form of symphonic music.
Grant
Constantin Marcou
Boris Repschinski, S.J. wrote:
Hough's performance won awards and is indeed very satisfying (and, yes, you can
hear elements presaging Chopin in the music). My copy is from the Musical
Heritage Society, so MHS must have somehow gotten its hands on the rights to
that recording at some point.
--
Best regards,
Con
*****************************************************************
"Mozart is too easy for beginners and too difficult for artists."
- Artur Schnabel
*****************************************************************
Please remove * from address to reply.
Rick Clark
Since you said it makes the tone softer, I have to assume you really
mean the left una corda pedal, not the right damper pedal.
The reason this occurs in a healthy piano is because as the hammers
wear in normally, string grooves are established into the hammer felt.
After a long period, the tone in the grooves becomes different than
the tone on the fresh felt next to the grooves. When you use the una
corda pedal, the hammers shift so that the hammer is striking the
strings with fresh felt. The solution to that is to have the hammers
resurfaced and/or voiced if needed. This is routine maintenance.
OTOH, if the piano action regulation is long neglected, or has had
sloppy work done, there are also other adjustment and preparation
issues pertaining to the pedal adjustment or the fit of the hammers
to the strings. But if this is a newish, well adjusted piano from the
Steinway factory, that is not likely the case.
Theoretically, the una corda pedal should shift the action so that the
hammers in the tricord section (tenor& treble) strike 2 strings
instead of three. Any irregularity of hammer fit or pedal adjustment
can mean this isn't happening according to spec. You can easily get
too much, too little, or have hammers that strike neighboring unisons.
Rick Clark
Alex Adams
>What are great piano concertos?
>
>I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
>The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
>of other favorites would be appreciated.
I love piano concertos.
Rachmaninoff: All four concertos are great, each with its own unique
character, though the third is the greatest. The piano concertos are
his greatest achievements.
Brahms: Both are great, and although the general consensus is that #2 is
superior, I overall prefer #1, the D minor, because of its passion.
Tchaikovsky: Magnificent.
Beethoven: #5 is great. The preceding four are excellent but rather
formulaic (much like his lesser symphonies: 1, 2, and 4).
Chopin: Both are quite good, though not exceptional.
Prokofiev: Fun, but superficial.
Liszt: Showmanship.
Overall, I would rank them as follows:
1. Rachmaninoff Third
2. Brahms First
3. Beethoven Fifth
4. Brahms Second
5. Rachmaninoff Second
6. Rachmaninoff First
7. Rachmaninoff Fourth
8. Tchaikovsky First
9. Beethoven First
10. Beethoven Third
The preceding is my opinion only, yada yada yada.
---
Alex Adams
As you from crimes would pardoned be,
Let your indulgence set me free.
Lam Kin Ting
Yuzhi wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
> > The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any
> suggestions
> > of other favorites would be appreciated.
> >
>
> Mozart's #20, still feel myself holding my breath after listening to it the
> umpteenth time.
>
> Louise
I love No.20 but I think No.27 is even greater. Its first movement
almost embraces the whole world in the performance of Backhaus/Bohm.
--
->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->
Joe Lam
email : joel...@netvigator.com
Classical Music Page : http://home.netvigator.com/~joelam/
<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-
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_________________________________________________
Joe Lam
email : joel...@netvigator.com
Classical Music Page : http://home.netvigator.com/~joelam/
_________________________________________________
L.K. THOMAS
Schumann's Pno. Concerto in A minor
Mendelssohn's Capriccio
>
Alexander Leach
The 2 greatest piano concertos are Beethoven #4 and Brahms#1. I never tire
of listening to either of these works.
Alex
John Grabowski
Alex Adams wrote:
>
> >What are great piano concertos?
> >
> >The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
> >of other favorites would be appreciated.
>
>
> Rachmaninoff: All four concertos are great, each with its own unique
> character, though the third is the greatest. The piano concertos are
> his greatest achievements.
You'd say the 2nd concerto transcends the 2nd or especially 3rd
symphonies???
> Brahms: Both are great, and although the general consensus is that #2 is
> superior, I overall prefer #1, the D minor, because of its passion.
Me too.
> Beethoven: #5 is great. The preceding four are excellent but rather
> formulaic (much like his lesser symphonies: 1, 2, and 4).
4th formulaic?? Anything but. He considered it his best and most
revolutionary, and he was right. The 5th is more "formulaic" and it
took the rest of the world half a century to catch up to the 4th.
> Chopin: Both are quite good, though not exceptional.
>
> Prokofiev: Fun, but superficial.
>
> Liszt: Showmanship.
Really???? Have you heard No. 2?
> Overall, I would rank them as follows:
>
> 1. Rachmaninoff Third
> 2. Brahms First
> 3. Beethoven Fifth
> 4. Brahms Second
> 5. Rachmaninoff Second
> 6. Rachmaninoff First
> 7. Rachmaninoff Fourth
> 8. Tchaikovsky First
> 9. Beethoven First
> 10. Beethoven Third
You'd put the Beethoven 1st and 3rd above the 4th? Whew!
> The preceding is my opinion only, yada yada yada.
That's good! ;-)
John
John Grabowski
Yuzhi wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
> > The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any
> suggestions
> > of other favorites would be appreciated.
> >
>
> Mozart's #20, still feel myself holding my breath after listening to it the
> umpteenth time.
>
> Louise
You can hold your breathe for a half an hour? That's very impressive!
;-)
John
--
IDIOT: n. A member of a large and powerful tribe
whose influence in human affairs has always been dominant and
controlling.
Mario Taboada
I notice with dismay that, ahem, Mozart's piano concertos seem to be
left out of these lists - they are a supreme musical achievement.
In the "great but should be much better known" I would include the
Schoenberg, several of Martinu's (the Fourth, "Incantations" is one of
the greatest of Bohuslav's, and the century's, works), Panufnik,
Persichetti, Britten, Ginastera, Igor (especially Movements), Copland,
Vaughan Williams (two pianos) - at the very least, but there are more.
With all due respect, Rachmaninov was a brilliant pianist but a mediocre
composer. His music is very superficial.
The Paderewski concerto, for example, is a far more interesting and
subtle work than any of Sergei's concertos, and so is the great Busoni
concerto - something of a mammoth, but substantial in musical ideas. If
there were any justice, Paderewski would get his concerto performed more
often (the Busoni is probably too hard for most pianists, and too long
and subtle for television-shaped minds).
The popularity of Rachmaninov in the United States can perhaps be
related to the appetite for sugar* that is by now endemic in this
country...
Regards,
Mario Taboada
* The bit about sugar I stole from Igor.
Alex Adams
>The 2 greatest piano concertos are Beethoven #4 and Brahms#1. I never tire
>of listening to either of these works.
>
>Alex
Glad to see someone else who considers the Brahms D minor to be greater
than the Bb major. Not that they are not both great achievements.
Alex Adams
>You'd say the 2nd concerto transcends the 2nd or especially 3rd
>symphonies???
I'm biased in that I prefer piano concertos to symphonies overall.
>4th formulaic?? Anything but. He considered it his best and most
>revolutionary, and he was right. The 5th is more "formulaic" and it
>took the rest of the world half a century to catch up to the 4th.
Perhaps "formulaic" is not the right word. But while the G major is
excellent, I do not think it achieves the heights of the Eb major.
>> Liszt: Showmanship.
>
>Really???? Have you heard No. 2?
There are exceptions.
>> Overall, I would rank them as follows:
>>
>> 1. Rachmaninoff Third
>> 2. Brahms First
>> 3. Beethoven Fifth
>> 4. Brahms Second
>> 5. Rachmaninoff Second
>> 6. Rachmaninoff First
>> 7. Rachmaninoff Fourth
>> 8. Tchaikovsky First
>> 9. Beethoven First
>> 10. Beethoven Third
Christ, I completely forgot about Bartok. Here's a possible revised
list:
1. Rachmaninoff Third (the supreme achievement of dark passion)
2. Brahms First (a personal and passionate epic of life)
3. Beethoven Fifth (profound and triumphant)
4. Bartok Third (because of its divinely inspired adagio religioso)
5. Brahms Second (towering and vast)
6. Rachmaninoff First (youthful power and virility)
7. Rachmaninoff Fourth (transcendant music for the vastness of space)
8. Rachmaninoff Second (glorious)
9. Bartok Second (great adventure music)
10. Tchaikovsky First (associated for me with deepest winter)
I would very much like to hear other people's opinions and
interpretations of the above piano concertos and others.
Simon Roberts
Mario Taboada (matr...@sprintmail.com) wrote:
: The popularity of Rachmaninov in the United States can perhaps be
: related to the appetite for sugar* that is by now endemic in this
: country...
So he may be even more popular in the U.K., which has reputedly the
highest sugar consumption per capita of anywhere....
Simon
Eric Schissel
Mario Taboada (matr...@sprintmail.com) wrote:
>With all due respect, Rachmaninov was a brilliant pianist but a mediocre
>composer. His music is very superficial.
Inclined strongly to disagree with you here, especially with the 4th
concerto. Though I still prefer Medtner 2&3.
Sorabji's early concerti probably aren't his best pieces but should be
performed anyhow. There are later concerti that are likely very good
indeed.
-Eric Schissel
--
schi...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/schissel ICQ#7279016
standard disclaimer
Richard Schultz
Alex Adams (alex_...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Glad to see someone else who considers the Brahms D minor to be greater
: than the Bb major. Not that they are not both great achievements.
I've always felt that the Brahms 2d piano concerto has too many notes
and not enough music. I really enjoy the d minor, though (unless it's
played really badly, which I had the misfortune to sit through, and doze
off during, one time).
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska
Ed Givelberg
Some people think Rachmaninov was a mediocre composer, others don't
find a place for a Mozart concerto in the top 10 piano concerto list.
Nobody mentions Prokofiev. Weird.
Ed
andre...@hotmail.com
well, because the original question was very general.
it might be an "easier" question to answer :
what are bad piano concertos?
i guess, then, the answer would NOT be AS much arguments.
P.S. if anyone still has mozart/beethoven as an answer for this new
question. that would be REALLY WEIRD.
to...@no_spam.com
I believe E. MacDowell (sp?) has a real stinker of a piano concerto. I
forget what opus or number it is, but frankly, as it sounds to me like a
bad stew of wannabe Grieg and Rachmaninoff slopped together, I couldn't
care less. :)
Sorry, I just had to get that out.
P.S. I don't care for Rachmaninoff's 1st, but that's just my personal
taste.
Eric Schissel
toto@no_spam.com wrote:
>In rec.music.makers.piano andre...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> what are bad piano concertos?
>I believe E. MacDowell (sp?) has a real stinker of a piano concerto. I
>forget what opus or number it is, but frankly, as it sounds to me like a
>bad stew of wannabe Grieg and Rachmaninoff slopped together, I couldn't
>care less. :)
I try to keep op. #s straight even on composers I despise, generally. Too
bad. He wrote 2 piano concerti, in a minor and in d minor, both fine and a
lot of fun. I'm sorry they don't appeal.
>Sorry, I just had to get that out.
>P.S. I don't care for Rachmaninoff's 1st, but that's just my personal
>taste.
So's what you said above. I'm a great fan of all 3 works you've managed
to dis.
Eric Schissel
Good point. Hrm... Prok 2, Prok 1, Prok 3, Prok 4, Prok 5 in my basic
order of enjoyment; I .want. to like 4 a lot more than I do. Likewise 5-
it's put down so severely in the notes to the Ashkenazy/Previn on London
that I can't help having sympathy and listening to it all the more
forgivingly, but it doesn't have the content of 2 or 1 and doesn't bring
me back the way 3 does.
-Eric Schissel
Ed Givelberg (give...@deshaw.com) wrote:
>Some people think Rachmaninov was a mediocre composer, others don't
>find a place for a Mozart concerto in the top 10 piano concerto list.
>Nobody mentions Prokofiev. Weird.
>Ed
--
David Rubenstein
I agree--the piano concerto is also my favorite form of music. My
favorites:
1) All of Mozart's later concertos.
2) Rachmaninoff's 2nd
3) Ravel's concertos
4) Gershwin's concerto
5) Prokofiev's 3rd
6) Shostakovich's
You can sort of tell I lean toward contemporary. But Mozart was the
master!
VessIrvine
Reviewing this tread, the overwhelming majority of responers prefer the old
concertos from the Baroque, Classical and Romantic periods.
My question would be, "Is the Piano Concerto a dead art form?" Is anyone
writing these things today? The old ones are so popular (myself included) that
one would think that modern composers would be tripping all over themselves to
write new ones.
When was the last one written which captured the public's attention in a major
way. Rapsody in Blue? Great Balls of Fire?
Wish I could write such a thing!
Regards
Vess Irvine
Denver
Fuba
Allan Burns
A few interesting ones that aren't performed or recorded frequently:
Henselt (Hamelin, Hyperion)
Rubinstein 4 (Hofmann, VAI)
Scharwenka 4 (Hough, Hyperion)
MacDowell 2 (Cliburn, RCA)
Allan
P.S. Sad to say, our own Mario Santayana is allergic to Romantics. Like
all modernists, he equates austerity with greatness. Just act concerned
when he has one of his fits, & don't let on you know this is a post-modern
world.
Mario Taboada
Allan Burns:
<<P.S. Sad to say, our own Mario Santayana is allergic to Romantics.
Like
all modernists, he equates austerity with greatness. Just act concerned
when he has one of his fits, & don't let on you know this is a
post-modern
world.>>
Allan, you completely misunderstood me. How could someone "allergic to
Romantics" express admiration for the Paderewski concerto? I am also on
record as an ardent fan of Schumann, Brahms, Rheinberger, Mendelssohn,
and so on... My low opinion of Rachmaninov has nothing to do with an
allergy to a style of music - nor does it equate with dislike of
Rachmaninov, whose music I generally find pleasant to listen to. My
comment was that I don't find much depth or musical substance in it. I
am sure you see the difference.
For the record, also, I am buying the Hyperion series of Romantic piano
concertos as soon as each volume appears.
As to "what kind of a world this is", I assume you are suggesting that I
tailor my taste in music to what some constipated critics are saying.
That makes me laugh - always a good thing on a Monday morning!
Best,
Mario Taboada
Allan Burns
In article <351F6B...@sprintmail.com>, Mario Taboada
<matr...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> Allan, you completely misunderstood me. How could someone "allergic to
> Romantics" express admiration for the Paderewski concerto?
That's a good question, & I really have no answer. Another, though, might
be, how could anyone express a greater admiration for the Paderewski
concerto than those of Rachmaninoff? ;-)
> I am also on
> record as an ardent fan of Schumann, Brahms, Rheinberger, Mendelssohn,
> and so on...
A skeptic might be inclined to respond, "Of course, the more classically
inclined Romantics . . ."
> For the record, also, I am buying the Hyperion series of Romantic piano
> concertos as soon as each volume appears.
Well, you're ahead of me there. Hyperion discs are sufficiently expensive
that I've been pretty selective with that admirable series. It's taxing
enough just keeping up with Stephen Hough's prodigious output.
> As to "what kind of a world this is", I assume you are suggesting that I
> tailor my taste in music to what some constipated critics are saying.
> That makes me laugh - always a good thing on a Monday morning!
Good--it was just a reductive joke. Who, after all, can really take a
term like "post-modern" seriously?
Allan
Gary Hollis
My favorite is the Khachaturian Piano Concerto. If you're not familiar with
it, I think it is well worth the experience to check it out...
Gary Hollis
Key productions
Allan Burns wrote in message ...
>A few interesting ones that aren't performed or recorded frequently:
>
>Henselt (Hamelin, Hyperion)
>Rubinstein 4 (Hofmann, VAI)
>Scharwenka 4 (Hough, Hyperion)
>MacDowell 2 (Cliburn, RCA)
>
>Allan
>
Mean Mr. Mustardseed
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
Hmm, it must be from all that tea. ;-)
Mean Mr. Mustardseed gol...@bconnex.net
Alex Adams
>Allan, you completely misunderstood me. How could someone "allergic to
>record as an ardent fan of Schumann, Brahms, Rheinberger, Mendelssohn,
>allergy to a style of music - nor does it equate with dislike of
>Rachmaninov, whose music I generally find pleasant to listen to. My
>comment was that I don't find much depth or musical substance in it. I
>am sure you see the difference.
Brahms is more of a classical composer, even though he lived in the
Romantic period. Rachmaninoff is generally considered to be a
post-Romantic composer.
Robert Au
> The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
> of other favorites would be appreciated.
Great or favorite? :)
A few (relatively) overlooked concerti and concerti-type pieces by
otherwise famous composers:
Beethoven: Choral Fantasy, Op. 80
Not terribly deep, but fun to play, and a fair bit of foreshadowing
of the Ninth.
Beethoven-Beethoven: Piano Concerto after Violin Concerto, Op. 61a
Holds up surprisingly well on its own as a piano concerto.
Beethoven left the orchestral part alone and rewrote the solo part
to accommodate the different solo instrument.
Liszt: Hungarian Fantasy, S. 123
Schubert-Liszt: Wanderer Fantasy, S. 366
I don't have too much to say about these, save that they make for
fun (and difficult, of course) music. Liszt loved Schubert's Wanderer
Fantasy (D. 760) so much that he re-arranged it as a piano concerto.
--
Robert Au mys...@silcon.com
finger mys...@cyclone.stanford.edu ^^^^^^
for PGP public key NOT silicon.com
Yoram Regev
My favorites:
By far, Brahms #2 (Pollini/Abbado/VPO)
then:
Mozart #20
Beethoven #5
Grieg
Brahms #1
erik schaepers
> Rachmaninoff is generally considered to be a
>post-Romantic composer.>
If one looks at the history of music as a predestined and inevitable
development, a composer may write romantic concerti while the post-modern
era has already begun.
But if the history of music is being shaped by the artists and their works,
a post- romantic composer who writes romantic concerti is a contradiction in
itself, as far as I can see.
Regards,
Erik
composer
(2 piano concerti so far)
Alain DAGHER
erik schaepers (esch...@worldcom.ch) wrote:
: > Rachmaninoff is generally considered to be a
: >post-Romantic composer.>
: But if the history of music is being shaped by the artists and their works,
: a post- romantic composer who writes romantic concerti is a contradiction in
: itself, as far as I can see.
Not necessarily: if he's being ironic - whcih I don't believe was the
case with Rachmaninoff.
Here's another teaser: can a composer have written "movie music"
before the invention of motion pictures?
--
Regards,
"De la musique avant toute chose"
Alain Dagher, M.D.
Montreal Neurological Institute -Paul Verlaine
Brian Newhouse
In article <6fu5kt$d...@news.worldcom.ch>, "erik schaepers"
<esch...@worldcom.ch> wrote:
" > Rachmaninoff is generally considered to be a
">post-Romantic composer.>
"
"If one looks at the history of music as a predestined and inevitable
"development, a composer may write romantic concerti while the post-modern
"era has already begun.
"
"But if the history of music is being shaped by the artists and their works,
"a post- romantic composer who writes romantic concerti is a contradiction in
"itself, as far as I can see.
"
We have a nasty little labelling problem here, which has to do with the
meaning of "romantic". In the other arts, the use of the term "romantic"
is generally restricted to works created in the first half of the
nineteenth century, on the assumption that things changed--got more
realistic, positivistic, disenchanted, what you will--after 1848. Whether
one can posit a similar change for music around that time is a far more
difficult question. Traditionally, music has been regarded as
different--in fact, if you believe Carl Dahlhaus, even people of the time
thought just that. We're more likely to draw a direct line from Schumann
to Tchaikovsky to Sibelius, say, that we are to draw such a direct line
from, for instance, Byron to Tennyson to Hardy, or Kleist to Ibsen to
Wedekind, or Scott to Flaubert to Tolstoy. As a result we use the term
"romantic" to refer to _all_ nineteenth-century art music. That's how we
can come to refer to a twentieth-century composer of music based on the
stylistic premises of the nineteenth century as a "post-romantic'
composer. After all, it's post-nineteenth-century, nineteenth-century =
romantic, ergo it's post-romantic. (sure, baby)
Of course, to further confuse ourselves we can't decide whether artistic
modernism, ergo the twentieth century, began in 1890 or 1914. Most
literary scholars and art historians push modernism back to around 1890
(if not earlier, depending on your view of Baudelaire or Manet); it also
makes a certain amount of musicological sense, in terms of the reception
of Mahler, Strauss, Debussy, etc. as already controversial "new music"
even as the likes of Schoenberg and Scriabin were really shaking things
up. But we don't really have a useful and generally accepted
musicological term to refer to that distinctive period between 1890 and
1914--and that's when the bulk of Rachmaninov's music was composed. And
while you might hear Rachmaninov's music as anachronistic for music
written after 1914, you certainly can't imagine it being written before
1890.
The alternative floating around to "post-romantic" seems to be
"neoromantic". Both have literal implications that don't quite work for
Rachmaninov:
--"post-romantic" = "I come after the end of the romantic era, and am
acutely conscious of that fact" (analogy to "post-modern"?)
--"neo-romantic" = "I am reviving the romantic style and aesthetic in the
light if demands for a counterpoise to our times" (analogy to
"neo-classical"?)
Both assume a break between "romantic" music (here, the musical traditions
developed in Russian art music in the course of the 19th century) and
Rachmaninov's own music that one doubts Rachmaninov ever felt.
--
Brian Newhouse
newh...@newton.crisp.net
Iian Neill
> A few interesting ones that aren't performed or recorded frequently:
>
> Henselt (Hamelin, Hyperion)
> Rubinstein 4 (Hofmann, VAI)
I am very glad to see someone hasn't forgotten old Anton Rubinstein.
About time he was forgiven by history for obstructing the modernist
tendencies in music. Hear hear!
Iian Neill.
Diane Wilson
In article <newhouse-010...@t1-48.crisp.net>,
newh...@mail.crisp.net says...
> The alternative floating around to "post-romantic" seems to be
> "neoromantic". Both have literal implications that don't quite work for
> Rachmaninov:
> --"post-romantic" = "I come after the end of the romantic era, and am
> acutely conscious of that fact" (analogy to "post-modern"?)
> --"neo-romantic" = "I am reviving the romantic style and aesthetic in the
> light if demands for a counterpoise to our times" (analogy to
> "neo-classical"?)
>
> Both assume a break between "romantic" music (here, the musical traditions
> developed in Russian art music in the course of the 19th century) and
> Rachmaninov's own music that one doubts Rachmaninov ever felt.
What he felt, we can only guess. It doesn't seem reasonable to assume that
he didn't know what was going on around him. (Even more true for Glasunov,
who taught so many students who rejected romanticism.) I think it's safe to
say that the newer modes of expression had nothing to offer to these
composers; that they were "true Romanticists" without post- or neo-
qualifications, and that they were Romanticists out of time.
It is interesting to examine those composers who seem to outlive their
eras. Shostakovich is perhaps an example as well, with a creative burst
in his last ten years that came in the midst of a wave of serialists
in the Soviet Union. While he remained true to his roots of expressiveness,
tonality, and structure, there is both a return to the experimentalism of
his own youth, and an incorporation of serialist concepts into his music.
Some have called his excursions into serialism "timid," and it's true that
he never wrote an atonal composition. But pieces like the 12th and 13th
quartets are defined by their internal conflict between tonality and
atonality; tonality wins in the 12th, while fear of death wins in the 13th.
Shostakovich made a telling quote in the late 60's (when serialism was still
officially banned in the Soviet Union) that a composer must be free to use
any means necessary; when asked whether that included serialism, he said,
yes, absolutely. Even so, he was as bound to his roots as Rachmoninov.
And perhaps like Rachmoninov, his last years were a journey in his own
world, with greatly diminished influence from the outside.
--
Diane Wilson | Marriage is really tough because
anon-...@anon.twwells.com | you have to deal with feelings
http://www.lava.net/~dewilson/ | and lawyers.
http://www.acm.org/chapters/trichi/ | --Richard Pryor
Brian Newhouse
In article <MPG.f8d5548a...@news.mindspring.com>,
dewi...@pobox.com (Diane Wilson) wrote:
"In article <newhouse-010...@t1-48.crisp.net>,
"newh...@mail.crisp.net says...
"
"> The alternative floating around to "post-romantic" seems to be
"> "neoromantic". Both have literal implications that don't quite work for
"> Rachmaninov:
"> --"post-romantic" = "I come after the end of the romantic era, and am
"> acutely conscious of that fact" (analogy to "post-modern"?)
"> --"neo-romantic" = "I am reviving the romantic style and aesthetic in the
"> light if demands for a counterpoise to our times" (analogy to
"> "neo-classical"?)
">
"> Both assume a break between "romantic" music (here, the musical traditions
"> developed in Russian art music in the course of the 19th century) and
"> Rachmaninov's own music that one doubts Rachmaninov ever felt.
"
"What he felt, we can only guess. It doesn't seem reasonable to assume that
"he didn't know what was going on around him. (Even more true for Glasunov,
"who taught so many students who rejected romanticism.) I think it's safe to
"say that the newer modes of expression had nothing to offer to these
"composers; that they were "true Romanticists" without post- or neo-
"qualifications, and that they were Romanticists out of time.
Again, I was talking about Rachmaninov's _own_ music, not of that of those
around him.
And the more and more I consider this historiographic mess, the more and
more I think that using "Romantic" as a synonym for "everything between
1815 and 1914 that doesn't sound horrid enought to be modern" obscures far
more than it clarifies. And what use is a term if it obscures far more
than it clarifies?
I really don't think that either Rachmaninov or Glazunov can be considered
"Romanticists [or whatever-ists] out of time" between 1880 and 1914, when
the great bulk of their work was composed. They were quite as
characteristic of their generation as Mahler or Nielsen or Janacek or
Debussy.
(I also wonder whether the use of "Romantic" to classify
turn-of-the-century composers less adventurously modernist than some of
their contemporaries doesn't also serve to obscure the expressive risks
and sense of adventure manifested by such indubitable Romantics as Berlioz
and Schumann. Once you get down to the present, restricting the use of
"Romantic" to such stodge-meisters as Howard Hanson gives Romanticism a
bad name. Whatever else Romanticism is, Romanticism is not stodgy.)
[snip]
--
Brian Newhouse
newh...@newton.crisp.net
Daniel Wilson
Diane Wilson <dewi...@pobox.com> said of Rachmaninov's view of modern
music:
> What he felt, we can only guess. It doesn't seem reasonable to
> assume that he didn't know what was going on around him. (Even more
> true for Glasunov, who taught so many students who rejected
> romanticism.)
Rachmaninov is on record as saying that Chopin was as modern as anyone
needed to get. And the permanent scowl on Glasunov's face was attributed
entirely to modernism, which he loathed.
===
| \
| \ dw...@cox.compulink.co.uk
| [] D Dan Wilson (Friends of the Pianola Institute, London)
| / antispam: cox rhymes with "kicks"
| /
===
Steve Keen
Did you mean to say "soft pedal" instead of "damper". If you are talking
about the left pedal- it's function is not really to quiet the sound but to
give a delicate tone quality to the sound. The hammers should hit only two
of the three strings in the trichord (3 string)sections. If your hammers are
worn or the shift system is out of adjustment a tinny tone might result.
This can be corrected. To play softer, good pianists rely on touch, not on
pedalling. steve k rpt
William R. Jones wrote in message ...
>
>
>
>Hello all ...
>
>I have noticed that when I use the damper pedal on a Steinway D, the
>overall timbre changes quite noticeably. The sound becomes softer, yes,
>but also a bit more 'tinny'. Have others noticed this? Is this just a
>characteristic of the D? Any thoughts...?
>
>
>William
>
john dyer
somebody wrote:
>> > I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
>> >..... Any suggestions of other favorites would be appreciated.
From what I've read, most of the great one's have been mentioned ;
I dunno if I'd say that this disc or these concerto's are amongst the
great ones, but I certainly enjoy them :
Peter Donohoe playing Tchaikovsky # 2 and #3 on EMI with the Bournemouth
S. O. and Rudolf Barshai
Eric Schissel
Most of the great ones haven't been mentioned. Most of the well-known
great ones have... the Tschaik ones are great enough, certainly; I'm
something of a fan of #2.
-Eric Schissel
--
flip...@imap3.asu.edu
The greatest of all swansong compositions, and my personal favorite piano
concerto, heretofore unmentioned, is the Bartok 3rd.
Mario Taboada (matr...@sprintmail.com) wrote:
: I notice with dismay that, ahem, Mozart's piano concertos seem to be
: left out of these lists - they are a supreme musical achievement.
: In the "great but should be much better known" I would include the
: Schoenberg, several of Martinu's (the Fourth, "Incantations" is one of
: the greatest of Bohuslav's, and the century's, works), Panufnik,
: Persichetti, Britten, Ginastera, Igor (especially Movements), Copland,
: Vaughan Williams (two pianos) - at the very least, but there are more.
: With all due respect, Rachmaninov was a brilliant pianist but a mediocre
: composer. His music is very superficial.
: The Paderewski concerto, for example, is a far more interesting and
: subtle work than any of Sergei's concertos, and so is the great Busoni
: concerto - something of a mammoth, but substantial in musical ideas. If
: there were any justice, Paderewski would get his concerto performed more
: often (the Busoni is probably too hard for most pianists, and too long
: and subtle for television-shaped minds).
: The popularity of Rachmaninov in the United States can perhaps be
: related to the appetite for sugar* that is by now endemic in this
: country...
: Regards,
: Mario Taboada
: * The bit about sugar I stole from Igor.
john dyer
(Eric Schissel) wrote:
>Most of the great ones haven't been mentioned. Most of the well-known
>great ones have... the Tschaik ones are great enough, certainly; I'm
>something of a fan of #2.
I had written :
>From what I've read, most of the great one's have been mentioned ; ....
and here I realize what a bonus a newsgroup like this is . Thank you for
reminding me of my rather limited knowledge of my favourite instrument. I
have to admit I have never even heard of Tschaik . So Eric, let's hear
about all those other great ones .... ?
Fred Goldrich
In article <jdyer-09049...@ppp-annex-0133.tor.accent.net>,
john dyer <jd...@total.net> wrote:
>(Eric Schissel) wrote:
>
>>Most of the great ones haven't been mentioned. Most of the well-known
>>great ones have... the Tschaik ones are great enough, certainly; I'm
>>something of a fan of #2.
>
>and here I realize what a bonus a newsgroup like this is . Thank you for
>reminding me of my rather limited knowledge of my favourite instrument. I
>have to admit I have never even heard of Tschaik .
A conductor friend of mine had an important audi-
tion a few years ago. After greeting the orchestra, he
called on them to do the first movement of the "Tchaik 4."
Several members of the orchestra muttered "Tchaik ...
Tchaik ... who the hell is Tchaik ... what are you talk-
ing about..."
He was so unnerved that the rest of the audition
went rather badly. He didn't get the job.
-- Fred Goldrich
--
Fred Goldrich
gold...@panix.com
SaintSaens
I think you have to listen to the various composers and their works and
determine for yourself what you like since this is a personal thing. As you
can see there have been dozens of suggestions but that doesn't mean you will
enjoy all of them. Use them as guides and you will find yourself leaning
towards certain composers at which time you will want to determine which artist
and orchestra best suits your liking. There are great differances in these
areas as you will soon find out. There are also some rerecorded music from
years ago that I just don't care for. All of my CDs are from recordings no
later than the 80s. Finally, like all good things in life, there is no such
thing as a bad concerto........some are just better than others.
-- Bob --
bree...@ncs.gov
> >>Most of the great ones haven't been mentioned. Most of the well-known
> >>great ones have... the Tschaik ones are great enough, certainly; I'm
> >>something of a fan of #2.
> >...
> tion a few years ago. After greeting the orchestra, he
> called on them to do the first movement of the "Tchaik 4."
> Several members of the orchestra muttered "Tchaik ...
> Tchaik ... who the hell is Tchaik ... what are you talk-
> ing about..."
>
> He was so unnerved that the rest of the audition
> went rather badly. He didn't get the job.
>
>>>>
IMO he got what he deserved. You can banter about like that
in the pub afterwards, but when you're on the box, it needs
to be strictly business.
While we're on the subject: I understand that "Tchaik" left
the 2nd and 3rd movements of his 3rd piano concerto (Eb)
unfinished at his (possibly suspicious) death, and that they
were later "completed" by Tannev.
Has the "complete" work ever been commercially recorded,
if so by whom, and is it worth hunting for? TIA
davyd breeskin
bree...@ncs.gov
Ragtimbill
Excuse my ignorance, but are we talking about Tchsikovsky here, or is there
another composer I never heard of whose name is Tchaik?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Bill Rowland
Broken Arrow, OK
Ragti...@aol.com
Larisa Migachyov
: suggestions
: > of other favorites would be appreciated.
: > -- Iain
:
: Mozart's #20, still feel myself holding my breath after listening to it the
: umpteenth time.
:
: Louise
:
Oh, yes. It's by far my favorite piano concerto; I've memorized the whole
thing <even used to play it once>, and never get tired of listening to it.
The transition from the stormy first movement to the beauteously calm
second movement gives me goosebumps every time.
--
Larisa Migachyov * Quant'e bella giovinezza
Biomedical Engineering * Che si fugge tuttavia!
Stanford University * Chi vuol esser lieto, sia;
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~lvm * Di doman non c'e certezza.
Larisa Migachyov
: iainb...@usa.net wrote:
:
: > What are great piano concertos?
: >
: > I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
: > The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
: > of other favorites would be appreciated.
: >
: > -- Iain
Both of the Chopin piano concerti;
Mozart's #20, #15, #24, and #27;
Rachmaninoff's #2 and #3;
Brahms' #2;
Saint-Saens' #2 and #4.
r
The absolute best for me, in order
1 Mozart #9
2 Mozart #24
3 Beethoven #3
4 Mozart #21
5 Beethoven #5
6 maybe Tschaikovsky #1 (only first few minutes anyway)
And I always prefer the 2nd movements, I'm sure I'm not the only one...
Piano sonatas? Waldstein, Appasionata, Chopin No. 2, Pathetique
Ras
ras...@yahoo.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~rasiel
Larisa Migachyov wrote in message <6gsb7i$dgc$4...@nntp.Stanford.EDU>...
>Yuzhi (xyz...@singnet.com.sg) wrote:
>: > I'm looking for opinions on favorite piano concerts.
>: > The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any
>: suggestions
>: > of other favorites would be appreciated.
>: >
>: > -- Iain
>:
>: Mozart's #20, still feel myself holding my breath after listening to it
the
>: umpteenth time.
>:
>: Louise
>:
>Oh, yes. It's by far my favorite piano concerto; I've memorized the whole
>thing <even used to play it once>, and never get tired of listening to it.
>The transition from the stormy first movement to the beauteously calm
>second movement gives me goosebumps every time.
>
Matthew Silverstein
"What are great piano concertos?"
Hmmm. Ones that are better than really good piano concertos,
maybe?
Matty Silverstein
XyZortC
At last a straightforward answer.
Ceil
remove xy to reply
Chinaski
r wrote:
> The absolute best for me, in order
>
> 1 Mozart #9
> 2 Mozart #24
> 3 Beethoven #3
> 4 Mozart #21
> 5 Beethoven #5
> 6 maybe Tschaikovsky #1 (only first few minutes anyway)
This posting seems very sacrilegious to me. I mean, not only does it concern a
somewhat silly topic, but "only the first few minutes" of Tchaikovsky's 1st
piano concerto???? What's that about? Have you bothered to listen to the
third movement perhaps?
I won't bother to add to this list myself (except to add that I really like
Scharwenka's piano concerti, which you almost never hear about).
-Chinaski
Fred Bayer
My favorite (approximate order, varying :-)
1. Prokofiev 2
2. Ravel 2 (left hand)
3. Prokofiev 1
4. Prokofiev 3
5. Beethoven 4
6. Ravel 1
7. Liszt 2
8. Beethoven 5
9. Prokofiev 4 (left hand)
10. Liszt 1
11. Gershwin
12. Brahms 2
13. Rachmaninov 3
...
Ciao, Fred
Eric Schissel
john dyer (jd...@total.net) wrote:
>(Eric Schissel) wrote:
>>Most of the great ones haven't been mentioned. Most of the well-known
>>great ones have... the Tschaik ones are great enough, certainly; I'm
>>something of a fan of #2.
>I had written :
>>From what I've read, most of the great one's have been mentioned ; ....
>and here I realize what a bonus a newsgroup like this is . Thank you for
>reminding me of my rather limited knowledge of my favourite instrument. I
>have to admit I have never even heard of Tschaik . So Eric, let's hear
>about all those other great ones .... ?
Tschaik=Tschaikovski. (*rolls eyes*) Peter T., at that, not Boris or
Andre.
Maybe I'll find out, along with everyone else, what the great concerti
are, when someone pays attention to them instead of recording the same old
thing over and over. From what I .do. know I'd say the 2nd & 3rd Medtner
concerti qualify as do some others, and that Sorabji's early and late
concerti .might. Unfortunately a lot of my favorite composers never wrote
piano concerti; Brian and Vainberg did not, Fuchs' is incomplete (I
think), and Holmboe's is early and uncharacteristic, however fun.
-Eric Schissel
D.G. Porter
Eric Schissel wrote:
>
> Unfortunately a lot of my favorite composers never wrote
> piano concerti;
We were talking over drinks at Yale a few weeks ago about why Ives, who
was this incredible pianist, never wrote a piano concerto. (Some of you
who do not regularly read r.m.c. but are reading this now should check
r.m.c. out for my posts on the "Emerson" Concerto premiere in October.)
We reached the conclusion that, ultimately, Ives would have had to be
the champion of his own concerto, and he was by nature not the guy to
get up on a concert stage, even with 55-100 musicians behind him. So
the concerto he was writing in 1911-12 became works for piano solo.
Now in the late 1920s, Anton Rovinksy (who premiered the piano phantasy
"The Celestial Railroad," the copy he used just now possibly located)
did ask Ives for a concerto, and Ives suggested the "Hanover Square"
piece from the Second Orchestral Set. And Ives wrote that the 2nd
movement from that Set, the ragtime dance, was almost a concerto (but
these are short pieces). And in many ways the "comedy" from the 4th
Symphony is a concerto -- that part is called the "solo" piano part for
the obvious reason.
hjoh...@umbc2.umbc.edu
I'd love to have a piano concerto or two from Ives, but
I'd also want at least one each from Sibelius and Nielsen.
Both would have managed splendid ones, no doubt.
Hal "All pasts and futures begin here."
--John Cage
Halvard Johnson (hjoh...@umbc.edu)
Simon Smith
to...@no_spam.com
In rec.music.makers.piano Simon Smith <simon...@lineone.net> wrote:
> Rachmaninov 4, easily. And maybe 1. But not 2, 3, or the Rhapsody.
1? Great?
And NOT 2, 3 or Rhapsody? You ain't MY mentor, that's fo' sho'!
Eric Schissel
Simon Smith (simon...@lineone.net) wrote:
>Rachmaninov 4, easily. And maybe 1. But not 2, 3, or the Rhapsody.
I likewise don't especially like 2, but can't imagine dismissing the
Rhapsody so easily!
Grant
Eric Schissel wrote:
>
> Well, that was one list curious for its omissions (Rubbra? Sessions?
> Simpson? (I was mistaken, earlier, in stating that Simpson did not write a
> piano concerto- I knew better, but forgot.))
> -Eric Schissel
That is a bizarre list...eg it lists "BRITTEN ballade écossaise", but
not Britten's concerto. What gives?
Grant
Eric Schissel
Well, that was one list curious for its omissions (Rubbra? Sessions?
Simpson? (I was mistaken, earlier, in stating that Simpson did not write a
piano concerto- I knew better, but forgot.))
-Eric Schissel
--
Leslie Smith
I'd say Tchicovsky's first. It's so powerful, those chords at the
beginning. Rachmaninov's third is pretty damn good as well.
Jamie
Chuck Nessa
spending about a minute on the list, I note the exclusion of the Carter.
CN
Pelleas wrote:
> For me the classifications of great XX century piano concertos are:
> 1 - Ravel : the 2 concertos
> 2 - Prokofiev N°3
> 3 - Bartok N°2
> 4 - Roussel
> 5 - Schmitt (symphonie concertante piano et orch)
> 6 - Jolivet
> 7 - Milhaud : carnaval d'Aix
> 8 - Poulenc : Aubade
> and the others :
>
> ALBENIZ concerto pour piano
> ALBENIZ rapsodie espagnole
> ALWIN concerto pour piano
> AUBERT. L fantaisie pour piano et orchestre
> BARBER concerto pour piano
> BARTOK concerto pour piano n° 1
> BARTOK concerto pour piano n° 2
> BARTOK concerto pour piano n° 3
> BARTOK rapsodie piano et orch
> BARTOK rapsodie piano et orch
> BARTOK sherzo pour piano et orch
> BAX morning song (pn+orch)
> BAX saga fragment (pn+orch)
> BAX variations symphoniques (pn+orch)
> BAX winter legends (pn+orch)
> BEETHOVEN concerto piano n° 1
> BLOCH . A concerto-ballet (piano et orchestre)
> BRITTEN ballade écossaise
> CASTELNUEVO TEDESCO concerto pour piano in G
> CASTILLO concerto pour piano
> CASTILLON concerto pour piano
> CHOSTACHOVITCH concerto pour piano n°1
> CHOSTACHOVITCH concerto pour piano n°2
> COPLAND concerto for piano & orch
> CRAS concerto pour piano
> DEBUSSY fantaisie pour piano
> DELANNOY concerto de mai
> DELIUS concerto for piano
> FALLA nuits dans les jardins d'espagne
> FALLA nuits dans les jardins d'espagne
> FAURE ballade pour piano et orch
> FAURE fantaisie pour piano et orch
> FRANCAIX Concertino pour piano et orch
> FRANCAIX Concerto pour piano et orch
> GEDALGE concerto pour piano
> GERSHWIN concerto pour piano & orch en fa
> GERSHWIN rapsodie n°2
> GERSHWIN variation on I got rhythm
> HAHN concerto pour piano
> HALFFTER . E rapsodie portugaise
> HARSANY concertino pour piano
> HARTY concerto pour piano
> HINDEMITH concerto piano & orch
> HINDEMITH the four temperaments
> HOLBROOKE concerto piano n°1
> HONEGGER concertino pour piano et orch
> JANACEK capriccio pour piano & orchestre
> JANACEK concertino piano et 6 instruments
> JOLIVET concerto pour piano
> KABALESVSKY concerto pour piano n° 2
> KABALESVSKY concerto pour piano n° 3
> KABALESVSKY concerto pour piano n° 3
> KABALESVSKY concerto pour piano n° 4
> KHATCHATOURIAN concerto pour piano & orch
> KHATCHATOURIAN concerto-rapsodie piano & orch
> KOECHLIN ballade pour piano & orchestre
> LANDOWSKI concerto pour piano n°2
> LE FLEM fantaisie pour piano & orch
> LIGETI concerto pour piano et orchestre
> MALIPIERO concerto pour 2 pianos & orch
> MARTIN Frank ballade pour piano et orchestre
> MARTIN Frank concerto pour piano n°1
> MARTIN Frank concerto pour piano n°2
> MARTINU concertino pour piano et orch
> MARTINU concerto pour 2 pianos
> MARTINU concerto pour piano et orch n°1
> MARTINU concerto pour piano et orch n°2
> MARTINU concerto pour piano et orch n°3
> MARTINU concerto pour piano et orch n°4
> MARTINU concerto pour piano et orch n°5
> MARTINU divertissement piano & orch
> MARTINU symphonietta giocosa piano & orch
> MARX castelli romani
> MARX concerto romantique pour piano
> MILHAUD 5 études pour piano et orch
> MILHAUD ballade pour piano & orch
> MILHAUD concertino d'automne (2 pn, orch)
> MILHAUD concerto 2 pianos & percussions n°2
> MILHAUD concerto pour 2 piano & orch n°1
> MILHAUD concerto pour piano n° 1
> MILHAUD concerto pour piano n° 2
> MILHAUD concerto pour piano n° 3
> MILHAUD concerto pour piano n° 4
> MILHAUD concerto pour piano n° 5
> MILHAUD fantaisie pastorale (piano & orch)
> MILHAUD le carnaval d'aix
> MIROUZE concerto pour piano
> MOSSOLOV concerto pour piano n°1
> MOSSOLOV concerto pour piano n°2
> NAT . Y concerto pour piano
> PIERNE concerto pour piano
> PIZZETTI concerto dell'estate (piano)
> POULENC aubade
> POULENC concerto pour 2 pianos & orch
> POULENC concerto pour piano & orch
> PROKOFIEV concerto pour piano n°1
> PROKOFIEV concerto pour piano n°2
> PROKOFIEV concerto pour piano n°4
> PROKOFIEV concerto pour piano n°5
> RACHMANINOV concerto pour piano n°1
> RACHMANINOV concerto pour piano n°2
> RACHMANINOV concerto pour piano n°3
> RACHMANINOV concerto pour piano n°4
> RACHMANINOV rapsodie sur un thème de paganini
> RAWSTHORNE concerto pour piano n°1
> RESPIGHI concerto in modo misolidio
> RODRIGO concerto héroïque
> ROLAND-MANUEL concerto pour piano
> SAUGUET concerto pour piano
> SCHÖNBERG concerto pour piano
> SCOTT concerto pour piano et orch n° 1
> SCOTT concerto pour piano et orch n° 2
> SCRIABINE concerto pour piano
> STRAWINSKY capricio pour piano et orchestre
> STRAWINSKY concerto pour 2 pianos seuls
> STRAWINSKY concerto pour piano & orch d'harmonie
> STRAWINSKY mouvements pour piano et orchestre
> TCHEREPNINE . A Concerto pour piano
> TOMASI cyrnos pour piano et orch
> VAUGHAN WILLIAMS piano concerto
> VAUGHAN WILLIAMS two pianos concerto
> VIERNE Louis Poème pour piano et orchestre
> VILLA-LOBOS chôros n°11 (pn,orch)
> VILLA-LOBOS concerto pour piano n° 1
> VILLA-LOBOS concerto pour piano n° 2
> VILLA-LOBOS concerto pour piano n° 3
> VILLA-LOBOS concerto pour piano n° 4
> VILLA-LOBOS concerto pour piano n° 5
> VILLA-LOBOS concerto pour piano n° 5
> VILLA-LOBOS monoprecoce (pn,orch)
> WIENER concert pour orchestre & piano principal
> ZIMMERMANN dialogue pour 2 pianos et orchestre
>
> --
> With best regards from PARIS .
> Claude MICHEL
> those happy, few lovers of rare music who are interested in out of print
> French classical music of the golden age"
>
> Eric Schissel <schi...@adore.lightlink.com> a écrit dans l'article
> <35383...@news2.lightlink.com>...
> > Simon Smith (simon...@lineone.net) wrote:
> > >Rachmaninov 4, easily. And maybe 1. But not 2, 3, or the Rhapsody.
> >
> > I likewise don't especially like 2, but can't imagine dismissing the
> > Rhapsody so easily!
John Harkness
John Harkness writes
Chuck Nessa wrote:
> spending about a minute on the list, I note the exclusion of the Carter.
> CN
Of course you note the exclusion of the Carter. If Carter were a
third-rate obscure French composer, his piano concerto would have been
included.
John
> Pelleas wrote:
snip another of Pelleas' endless stupid lists
Eric Schissel
>Chuck Nessa wrote:
>
>> spending about a minute on the list, I note the exclusion of the Carter.
>> CN
>Of course you note the exclusion of the Carter. If Carter were a
>third-rate obscure French composer, his piano concerto would have been
>included.
Not true, since no 3rd-rate composers .were. included.
-Eric Schissel
>John
>
>> Pelleas wrote:
>snip another of Pelleas' endless stupid lists
this one, while strange, was pretty to-the-point.
You must be using one of those newsreaders that loads every post to your
hard-drive, in full, unlike (say) tin which just shows them to you a page
at a time...
Ross Mandell
Here are my own favorites:
Mozart #23 (Horowitz's recording on Horowitz Plays Mozart is my own
favorite)
Beethoven #4
Mozart #12
Grieg #1 There is a very good reason that this is a warhorse
Rach #2 and #3 1 and 4 are also worth listening to
I love the ones by Hummel. Don't laugh. Mozart was his teacher and
it shows, and thats all to the good
Mendelsohn #1
Liszt #1 and #2 , Liszt never really polished #3 and it seems sort of
incomplete to me
Gershwin Very jazzy, very American and very Gershwin, A real treat.
Any of Mozart's 25 others
Brahms
m..clemons@worldnet.att.net
In article <353d7a8...@news.uconect.net>,
sentimental) concerto.
Marv Clemons
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
jr...@no.spam.fastlane.net.no.spam
>>The one that I listen to most often is Chopin's Concerto #1. Any suggestions
>>of other favorites would be appreciated.
> I love piano concertos.
> Rachmaninoff: All four concertos are great, each with its own unique
> character, though the third is the greatest. The piano concertos are
> his greatest achievements.
> [...]
> Prokofiev: Fun, but superficial.
I think that both Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev's third concertos together
are the two greatest works of the 20th century. But Rachmaninoff's fourth
concerto, especially the second movement, bores me to death!
--
Jonathan R. Fox
Eric Schissel
jr...@no.spam.fastlane.net.no.spam wrote:
>In rec.music.classical Alex Adams <alex_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
4th?
>I think that both Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev's third concertos together
>are the two greatest works of the 20th century. But Rachmaninoff's fourth
>concerto, especially the second movement, bores me to death!
I like them but would never call them the greatest works of a century that
began with Mahler symphonies and continued through the Gothic to such
things as Prokofiev's own Fiery Angel, Schoenberg's A Survivor from
Warsaw, Vainberg's 6th symphony (no subtitle, but the subtitle could as
well be "in memory of children who died")...
But then, I'm anything but bored by Rachmaninoff's fourth concerto, my
favorite of the four.
rcum...@csrlink.net
In article <35515...@news2.lightlink.com>#1/1,
century. They're great works, no doubt. As for Prokofiev, his F Minor Violin
Sonata is far deeper, his The Fiery Angel is more substantial, his 6th and 8th
Sonatas are as good, and his 6th Symphony is greater. Rachmaninov's 2nd, corny
though it may be, is at least on a par with the 3rd. His Symphonic Dances may
be his greatest work. I wouldn't agree his 4th is quite on a par with the rest
of his concertos, though it is interesting. The 2nd movement's unintended
allusion to "Three Blind Mice" makes it difficult to take seriously.
R.C.
Pelleas
And RAVEL concertos !!!!
--
With best regards from PARIS .
Claude MICHEL
those happy, few lovers of rare music who are interested in out of print
French classical music of the golden age"
Eric Schissel <schi...@adore.lightlink.com> a écrit dans l'article
<35515...@news2.lightlink.com>...
> jr...@no.spam.fastlane.net.no.spam wrote:
> >In rec.music.classical Alex Adams <alex_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> To Mr. Adams- about Prokofiev's concerti being superficial- even the 2nd
&
> 4th?
>
>
> >I think that both Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev's third concertos together
> >are the two greatest works of the 20th century. But Rachmaninoff's
fourth
> >concerto, especially the second movement, bores me to death!
>
> I like them but would never call them the greatest works of a century
that
> began with Mahler symphonies and continued through the Gothic to such
> things as Prokofiev's own Fiery Angel, Schoenberg's A Survivor from
> Warsaw, Vainberg's 6th symphony (no subtitle, but the subtitle could as
> well be "in memory of children who died")...
>
> But then, I'm anything but bored by Rachmaninoff's fourth concerto, my
> favorite of the four.
>
> -Eric Schissel
>
>
James K. Hsu
Maybe the poster meant "Greatest Piano Concertos of the 20th Century". What if
you just count piano concertos? What would be the greatest piano concerto of the
20th century then?
-James
rcum...@csrlink.net wrote:
> In article <35515...@news2.lightlink.com>#1/1,
> schi...@adore.lightlink.com (Eric Schissel) wrote:
> >
> > jr...@no.spam.fastlane.net.no.spam wrote:
> > >In rec.music.classical Alex Adams <alex_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > To Mr. Adams- about Prokofiev's concerti being superficial- even the 2nd &
> > 4th?
> >
> > >I think that both Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev's third concertos together
> > >are the two greatest works of the 20th century. But Rachmaninoff's fourth
> > >concerto, especially the second movement, bores me to death!
> >
> > I like them but would never call them the greatest works of a century that
> > began with Mahler symphonies and continued through the Gothic to such
> > things as Prokofiev's own Fiery Angel, Schoenberg's A Survivor from
> > Warsaw, Vainberg's 6th symphony (no subtitle, but the subtitle could as
> > well be "in memory of children who died")...
> >
> > But then, I'm anything but bored by Rachmaninoff's fourth concerto, my
> > favorite of the four.
> >
> > -Eric Schissel
> >
Paul Bateman
In article <3559ED1C...@netscape.com>, "James K. Hsu"
styles. Composers of fine piano concertos this century not mentioned above
must include (among many others) Ravel, Bartok, Khachaturian, Shostakovitch
and Barber. Look out for a young Irish composer called Ian Wilson (now
published by Universal Edition). He hasn't written a piano concerto yet but
when he does, buy it! My piano trio has recorded some of his chamber music
and it's really good music.
Paul Bateman
>
>
>
--
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| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
___________________________/ pbat...@argonet.co.uk
rcum...@csrlink.net
In article <3559ED1C...@netscape.com>,
"James K. Hsu" <jame...@netscape.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe the poster meant "Greatest Piano Concertos of the 20th Century". What
if
> you just count piano concertos? What would be the greatest piano concerto of
the
> 20th century then?
>
to say it would come down to two composers, Prokofiev and Rachmaninov, and
coincidentally to their respective 2nd and 3rd Concertos. Being a Prokofiev
maven, I'll pick his 3rd as my favorite but fully realize the other three
works are also solid contenders.