Diana Krall: Opinions
J. B. Wood
this young artist. Her voice is soooo sultry and sexy. Voice-wise she
reminds me of the female equivalent of a cross between Tony Bennett and
Francis Albert Sinatra. Doesn't appear to be a bad jazz pianist, either.
And for you 18 to 34 males, she is definitely a babe (at least to my
50 year old eyes ;-)). Sincerely,
John Wood (Code 5551) e-mail: wo...@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20375-5337
Adam Bravo
Guttural is the exact word for it. As for her piano playing, it's just
normal, blah jazz piano (not that jazz piano is blah, just that her playing
is blah). However, I'm obviously not a fan of her, and some other people
will probably disagree with me because they've heard more of her.
"J. B. Wood" <wo...@itd.nrl.navy.mil> wrote in message
news:wood-07070...@jbw-mac.itd.nrl.navy.mil...
none
style shows deep feeling while her face seems to betray that any
emotions are felt. This adds up to a enigmatic performer which makes
me want see and hear her more. She's in no hurry to tell all she
knows. Many performers (especially jazz) take me to places I don't
want to go. Diana takes me to a relaxing yet unsettled place. I'm sure
she has a lot more to say.
I'm sure she's not everyone's cup of tea, but she does it for me. I
know I'll meet her someday!
Ken Cobb
wo...@itd.nrl.navy.mil (J. B. Wood) wrote:
> Just curious as to what the jazz aficionados in the newsgroup think about
> this young artist. Her voice is soooo sultry and sexy...
Must be why she's President Clinton's favorite singer.
My wife and I were recently on a car trip for a few hours (without the
kids!). I had just bought the latest Diana Krall and she had picked up
the latest Celine Dion. We listened to part of Celine once, then spent
the rest of the time with Diana. And it wasn't because I was hogging the
CD player, but because Diana's CD was so much more enjoyable. Whereas
Celine is a belter (ie, she belts out the songs at full volume) with a
full band, Diana has a wonderful, expressive, sultry voice. And the spare
arrangements give her voice plenty of space to shine through.
As far as her piano playing goes, she's primarily a singer and doesn't
present herself as a piano virtuoso, so I'm not going to judge her too
harshly on her playing. She's competent and her playing doesn't distract
from her voice, which I think is probably the point. The guitar playing
by Russell Malone, on the other hand, is quite good.
Ken
Steve
Bravo" <ad...@home.com> wrote:
>I would describe her voice as too low for the type of music she plays.
>Guttural is the exact word for it. As for her piano playing, it's just
>normal, blah jazz piano (not that jazz piano is blah, just that her playing
>is blah). However, I'm obviously not a fan of her, and some other people
>will probably disagree with me because they've heard more of her.
Adam, I have to agree with you 100%. I just don't see anything special
in her, and she would be most at home playing in some lounge somewhere.
Nothing really creative, just easy listening trio jazz with decent
singing, and that, at least here in NYC, is a dime a dozen.
>
>"J. B. Wood" <wo...@itd.nrl.navy.mil> wrote in message
>news:wood-07070...@jbw-mac.itd.nrl.navy.mil...
>> Just curious as to what the jazz aficionados in the newsgroup think about
robertandrews
Just curious as to what the jazz aficionados in the newsgroup think about
this young artist.
I think it's more a matter of personality than virtuoso technique. She's
got a limited range as a singer, but she's very smooth. Like most recording
artists, she rarely misses a note. She's got a nice feel & touch on the
piano, though she's hardly a player's player. It's her distinctive sound &
style that make her appealing -- I wouldn't underestimate that, my fellow
musicians. Sure, there are those who can play circles around her, I'd
rather hear Sinatra or Billie Holliday, even Nat King Cole, but those people
are impossible to surpass. If she's on the tube I'll listen for a few
songs, & I'm sure she's pleasant to see in a small club.
p.s. I'm more desperado than aficionado
Ivan Vegvary
Steve <maestr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:maestro-steve-8A3...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> In article <9sn95.30918$3E6.3...@news1.alsv1.occa.home.com>, "Adam
> Bravo" <ad...@home.com> wrote:
> Nothing really creative, just easy listening trio jazz with decent
> singing, and that, at least here in NYC, is a dime a dozen.
Your phrase "dime a dozen" caught my eye and mind. There is soooooooooooo
much talent in this country. I'm not sure I could have said that back in
the 50's when everything cultural had to be European.
It seems that today, talent is so abundant that you have to have a gimmick
to make it to the top, e.go. Madonna, Cher etc. It's all marketing and
money. People with exceptional talent have a hard time getting recognition.
My $ 0.02
Ivan Vegvary, still practicing piano
Jon Parker
| People with exceptional talent have a hard time getting recognition.
Yes, and this could be discussed extensively. I read somewhere that jazz
and classical music combined only gets 5% of the money out pf the music
industry, with country getting 20% and pop and other mainstream genres
getting 75%. I can't remember where I got these figures (maybe someone else
knows more.)
IMHO, the "popular" genres of music have performers that play much more
basic material than jazz and classical artists (and other serious musics.)
This might have something to do with the fact that more people can relate
something easier, as it does not take much for the listener to get the feel
of the music. Harder music is harder on the ears, and attracts a more elite
and (most likely) more educated audience. Those of us who have put the time
in master an instrument can relate easier to more difficult sounding music,
and push easier sounding music away from our ears. Kenny G is a fine
example of this. He caters to an easy listening audience while utilizing
enough tricks to make him sound great, but not too many to make it too
difficult for the average listener to comprehend. Still, my own opinions.
--
Jon Parker
Jazz Pianist and Tubist
Denver CO USA
To reply via e-mail, remove the spam-blocker
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Robert Steinberg
> I'm sure she's pleasant to see in a small club.
I saw her on a PBS show about the Newport Jazz Festival and heard her on
CD in a new Audi.........I'd have to agree with robertandrews posting.
While listening in the Audi, the driver of the car pointed out that
Diana is the daughter of jazz singers Jackie Caine and Roy Krall.
Is that true??
RS
--
Robert Steinberg
MidiOpera Co.
http://www.evcom.net/~midiopra/
http://www.tcol.net/~midiopra/
Tom Shaw
TS
Robert Steinberg wrote in message
<200007090...@mia-tcr7-128.dyn.evcom.net>...
Jon Parker
| It's weird to post good things about G without getting flamed. Try posting
| that on rec.music.bluenote.
I should add that while G does do a good job of catering to the popular
audience, I (and probably many many many other serious musicians) can't
stand his style. Pat Metheny had some pretty harsh words about G that has
been circulating around the jazz community. It can be found here
http://www.zjazz.com/metheny.html . As far as G laughing all the way to the
bank, I think if it were me, I would have a hard time dealing with the fact
that most "real" musicians hate him. How would you like to make it in a
certain style, and know that everyone else that plays in the same name genre
(in this case jazz,) doesn't even consider your music worthwhile? I would
be delighted to be rich, but it wouldn't make me happy being rich knowing
something like this.
| Just goes to show that RMMP is one big, happy
| family.
For the most part. I'm glad that kids can participate in this ng without
having to worry about foul language and obscene posts.
Adam Bravo
family.
. Kenny G is a fine
> example of this. He caters to an easy listening audience while utilizing
> enough tricks to make him sound great, but not too many to make it too
> difficult for the average listener to comprehend. Still, my own opinions.
>
Adam Bravo
a good lawyer?
Adam Bravo
> I should add that while G does do a good job of catering to the popular
> audience, I (and probably many many many other serious musicians) can't
> stand his style.
Diana Krall (the original subject of this thread) caters to the masses in
the same way that G does, but in a style that more musicians can stand. She,
unlike Kenny, was not trying to make a new sort of music and label it like
an older, more established one. I think calling his music jazz is what
upsets a lot of people. Again I say it, rec.music.bluenote is the prime
example of G-bashing.
> Pat Metheny had some pretty harsh words about G that has
> been circulating around the jazz community. It can be found here
> http://www.zjazz.com/metheny.html . As far as G laughing all the way to
the
> bank, I think if it were me, I would have a hard time dealing with the
fact
> that most "real" musicians hate him. How would you like to make it in a
> certain style, and know that everyone else that plays in the same name
genre
> (in this case jazz,) doesn't even consider your music worthwhile? I would
> be delighted to be rich, but it wouldn't make me happy being rich knowing
> something like this.
Metheny was rather harsh to G, and I don't know that G was used to that kind
of treatment, and maybe wasn't aware that the music community knew that he
wasn't what he was made out to be. It's possible that G was even a bit hurt
by those remarks.
> | Just goes to show that RMMP is one big, happy
> | family.
>
> For the most part. I'm glad that kids can participate in this ng without
> having to worry about foul language and obscene posts.
<Snicker>
Peter Deneff
think that they might be paving the way for other instrumental artists (of
perhaps more substance) to share the spotlight ( and the money) with the
endless sea of vocal music that has always pervades the popular music scene.
Furthermore, I can see why other musician's comments might not mean much to
them. From their point of view, they are loved by the people for whom they
compose their "music".....and they have the record sales to back up that
point. Do you think that it bothers McDonald's that most fine restraunts
and chefs don't like them? I doubt it. They are not in business to impress
the likes of Emeril Lagasse or the TV Food Network.
Peter Deneff
"Adam Bravo" <ad...@home.com> wrote in message
news:cxma5.33835$3E6.3...@news1.alsv1.occa.home.com...
Al Stevens
Adam Bravo wrote in message ...
I have all her albums so far. Her work, vocally and on the piano, is very
good to the ears of this jazz pianist. But her photographer should have won
the Grammy. Those pics make her look really great, and that's probably what
those 50 year eyes old saw.
But, then again, Dinah Washington was no beauty, either.
Adam Bravo
extremely annoying, the opinion of "We're gonna add some onions" guy doesn't
draw enough respect to affect our opinion of McDonalds, however cheap their
food may be. Actually, Emeril isn't a bad percussionist.
"Peter Deneff" <ost...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nwqa5.53174$_b3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Jon Parker
| While the music of someone like Kenny G or Yanni does not interest me, I
do
| think that they might be paving the way for other instrumental artists (of
| perhaps more substance) to share the spotlight ( and the money) with the
| endless sea of vocal music that has always pervades the popular music
scene.
That is a good point. There are other more respected musicians who have
jumped on the bandwagon as popular instrumentalists (Grover Washington Jr.,
for one) and it is nice to see artists like Sting hiring people like
Branford Marsalis for solos.
| Furthermore, I can see why other musician's comments might not mean much
to
| them. From their point of view, they are loved by the people for whom
they
| compose their "music".....and they have the record sales to back up that
| point. Do you think that it bothers McDonald's that most fine restraunts
| and chefs don't like them? I doubt it. They are not in business to
impress
| the likes of Emeril Lagasse or the TV Food Network.
Money is a big driving factor. The cost of a McDonald's hamburger is
cheaper than what you would find at a gourmet resturaunt, but you also get a
waiter to get your seat, put your napkin on you lap, tell you the specials
of the day, etc. But back to music, I just don't think I would want to be
despised by tons of other instrumentalists because I catered to an audience
rather than focusing on the art. His real art is business, and he does it
very well. He probably could have started a business and been very
successful. In spite of all this, I hope he is happy.
robertandrews
>I would want to be despised by tons of other instrumentalists because I
catered to an audience rather than focusing on the art. His real art is
business, and he does it very well. He probably could have started a
business and been very successful. In spite of all this, I hope he is
happy.
You're assuming that Kenny G. is simply trying to sell music, & doesn't
really value his art. I'm not so sure -- perhaps he is completely fulfilled
as a musician, and could care less about having the respect of jazz purists.
Also, one can be equally despised, or envied, for being true to one's art.
I'd rather be a great despised (or ignored) pianist than a mediocre one
accepted by his peers. If someone is moved by my music, it doesn't add much
if he or she is also a musician. I'm just as happy to touch a painter, poet
or plumber as a pianist & tubist (but I'll make an exception in your case!).
I'm no Kenny G. fan, but I don't care if he's a miserable or happy sell-out.
His CDs are just as expensive as Miles Davis, so the McDonalds/Emeril
analogy regarding money doesn't apply. However, I heartily recommend
Emeril's in New Orleans -- great restaurant!
guy f klose
>Diana Krall (the original subject of this thread) caters to the masses in
>the same way that G does, but in a style that more musicians can stand. She,
>unlike Kenny, was not trying to make a new sort of music and label it like
>an older, more established one.
I'm not a fan of the G-man (and I'm not really trying to defend him), but
I did see a TV interview with him some years back where he claimed "I am
not a jazz player." He did say that he idolized Trane, but he was not in
any way trying to imply that either he was a jazz player or that Trane
was an influence in his music.
I, probably like most of us who care, are probably more upset by the
wishy-washy fans that say things like, "yeah, I like jazz...Kenny G
is one of my favorites."
By the way, I don't seem to remember Diana Krall as being related
to Jackie and Roy. A recent interview in Jazz Times did cover more
of her background (and unfortunately, I can't remember details as
well as I used to). Diana is from somewhere in British Columbia,
Nainamo I think (if I'm spelling it correctly).
She was a student at Berklee, in Boston, a few years back, and I
know she credits a couple of turning points for her. One is a
regular hotel lounge gig she had in Boston, and another is meeting
and being mentored by Jimmy Rowles, in NYC. I think she started
to sing on that hotel gig, just for the sake of variety. I'm almost
certain vocals were not her primary concern before that, or when she
was studying at Berklee.
Guy
--
Guy Klose
g...@world.std.com
Tom W. Ferguson
six bejillion fans. But dissecting popular esthetics, and performers'
relationship to them, can get dicey. Louis Armstrong's favorite sax section
was Guy Lombardo's. For that matter, the work that makes Armstrong one of
the foundations of jazz was not done during the many years of his greatest
fame. Dave Brubeck, at the height of his mass popularity, was in many jazz
circles about as respected as Kenny G. Al Hirt (the Kenny G of his time) was
classically schooled. Coltrane, if he showed up in a Gallup poll, would
probably be identified for . . . quite fittingly in a discussion of popular
taste . . . "My Favorite Things."
Trivia question I don't know the answer to: Who was the last jazz
instrumentalist to make the cover of Time magazine? I'm guessing it was
Monk.
Who, for that matter, was the last classical instrumentalist to make the
cover of Time?
Peter Deneff
fine restraunts but I was really trying to relay the idea that musician's
like Kenny G or Yanni probably really like what they do. They just happen
to be simplistic, musically. There are at least a couple of examples of
great musicians who are hated by their peers as well. All I was saying is
that fast food is extremely popular with the masses, not because of cost
necessarily, but because many people do not have an appreciation for high
quality cuisine. If I went out and played three examples of instrumental
music for the average Joe, we'll say John Coltrane's "A love Supreme", Bela
Bartok's "Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta", anything by Kenny G,
the average Joe would pick the Kenny G composition as being their
favorite(horrifying as this may sound).
I am, however, more suspicious of Kenny's intentions than Yanni's. Kenny
actually used to play REAL JAZZ. He used his real name-Kenny Gorlick(I
think). Yanni, on the other hand, knows nothing about composition,
notation, theory or otherwise(and please don't challenge me on this-the
Greek community is tight knit, you can't take a crap without the whole
community finding out!). He is truly playing and composing up to his level,
he can't do any better. Kenny G has a better chance of being able to play a
Charlie Parker tune than Yanni could play anything written at all! Yanni
can't even play Greek music, which is the music from which his compositions
supposedly come....he's no Bela Bartok............but than again I guess
Bela didn't sell millions of CD's. Oh, well....when in America.......go for
the bucks.....
Peter Deneff
"robertandrews" <robert...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DxDa5.208$4U4....@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
robertandrews
>Kenny G has a better chance of being able to play a Charlie Parker tune
than Yanni could play anything written at all!
George Benson used to play "real" jazz, I'm not disturbed that he moved into
R&B and blended the styles. I think most people consider Benson a good if
not excellent jazz player. Did anyone ever consider Kenny G a good be-bop
player? Maybe his heart was really in the pop style all along. It doesn't
matter to me if he is a better trained musician than Yanni. I don't like
either, but Yanni is much better comedy.
I understood your food analogy, it just didn't apply to money. It would be
nice if Emeril's was as inexpensive as McDonald's. With music, educated
consumers sometimes benefit by a general lack of good taste.
Al Stevens
robertandrews wrote in message ...
>I'd rather be a great despised (or ignored) pianist than a mediocre one
>accepted by his peers. If someone is moved by my music, it doesn't add
much
>if he or she is also a musician.
I respectfully disagree. I've found that it doesn't take much talent, taste,
ability, creativeness, originality, etc., to gain the respect and admiration
of the typical audience of self-proclaimed music lovers. You can phone in a
mediocre performance with lots of flourish and ear candy, and most audiences
think you're really great. Witness the average lounge/piano bar performer.
Gaining respect and acceptance from other musicians, however, demands much
more. I want to be the pianist that other musicians come to hear.
Al Stevens
Tom W. Ferguson wrote in message ...
>Every era has its Lawrence Welk -- someone who is liked by no on except his
>six bejillion fans.
Welk's era had several -- Liberace, Fabian, Elvis, Wayne Newton, ad nauseum.
>Al Hirt (the Kenny G of his time) ...
That association, probably based on Hirt's small number of commercial
successes (Java, Honey in the Horn, etc.), does Hirt a great disservice. He
was a great legitimate and jazz trumpet player who was monumentally
respected by other trumpet players. The analogy simply does not fit. A
better, though not perfect, analogy would be "the Arturo Sandoval of his
time."
Jon Parker
| A better, though not perfect,
| analogy would be "the Arturo Sandoval of his
| time."
I agree with you here.
BTW, how is you little vacation?
Tom W. Ferguson
> I wrote ...
>> Every era has its Lawrence Welk -- someone who is liked by no on except his
>> six bejillion fans.
> Welk's era had several -- Liberace, Fabian, Elvis, Wayne Newton, ad nauseum.
I should have written "its Lawrence Welks." However, three of the four you
mention were vocalists, not instrumentalists . . . which strikes me as
missing one of the major subtexts of this thread. I thought the discussion
related to something like "instrumental music without substance that sells
like Big Macs while instrumental music of substance plays for the door at
your local lounge."
>I wrote:
>> Al Hirt (the Kenny G of his time) ...
>
> That association, probably based on Hirt's small number of commercial
> successes (Java, Honey in the Horn, etc.), . . .
Al Hirt had a several-year run as a pop instrumentalist who could sell
novelty tunes to the mass market in large numbers, and who made countless TV
appearances -- where, you're right, he did often get to perform better
material. (Give me five minutes and I'll run down to the corner saloon and
find 15 barflies who can recite you a complete paragraph on who Al Hirt was;
in response to the later post, I won't find anyone in that same bar who has
ever heard of Arturo Sandoval.)
> . . . does Hirt a great disservice. He was a great legitimate and jazz >
trumpet player who was monumentally respected by other trumpet players. The
analogy simply does not fit.
I wasn't comparing Al Hirt's musical skills with Kenny G's musical skills. I
wouldn't know how, because I have never listened to Kenny G. I was talking
about the pop success phenomenon referenced above. Of course, if you want to
make a case for "Java" being music of substance, that's another story. Al
Hirt had great chops and I certainly intend no disrespect to the memory of
someone I made a point of tuning in the "Dinah Shore Show" to see. I well
remember the night he appeared on the "Tonight Show," played, then sat down
and told Carson it was embarrassing to be getting all this attention while
Clark Terry was sitting anonymously over in the trumpet section. Class act.
Hirt's pop persona WAS quite a commercial phenomenon, well-received among
millions who would not cross the street to listen to jazz -- be it New
Orleans or contemporary. His greatest success came from his least
substantive material, which while apparently off the mark to this discussion
is what I was trying to convey.
My apologies for misunderstanding the thread.
Jon Parker
| I heard some time ago that Kenny G. had been placed in the Guiness Book of
| World Records for playing the longest continual note on a horn without
| stopping, proving once and for all that it is completely possible to blow
and
| suck at the same time.
This happened a couple of years ago. I believe it was something around 45
minutes of continuous torture (err, sound.) I see your pun, but to clue in
other readers who may only see one side, many people think he sucks (or they
have extreme disdain for him.)
I've thought about the record he set and thought that perhaps somewhere in
Australia some aborigine has played a continuous note on a didjeridoo for
hours if not days, and wouldn't even care about the recognition of being
better than Kenny G.
Larry Fletcher
>wouldn't know how, because I have never listened to Kenny G.
I heard some time ago that Kenny G. had been placed in the Guiness Book of
World Records for playing the longest continual note on a horn without
stopping, proving once and for all that it is completely possible to blow and
suck at the same time.
Larry Fletcher
Pianos Inc
Atlanta GA
Dealer/technician
Doing the work of three men..........Larry, Curly, and Moe.
Peter Deneff
recordings. Kenny G has played "real jazz" on other people's recordings
under his real name. I can't remember how he played...perhaps not very
memorable. I just think that he probably plays better in his closet at home
than he plays for his adorning fans.....who knows?
Peter Deneff
"robertandrews" <robert...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:GqOa5.1695$4U4.2...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
Don
<t...@pathwaynet.com> wrote:
>
>> I wrote ...
>>> Every era has its Lawrence Welk -- someone who is liked by no on except his
>>> six bejillion fans.
>
>> Al wrote:
>> Welk's era had several -- Liberace, Fabian, Elvis, Wayne Newton, ad nauseum.
>
>I should have written "its Lawrence Welks." However, three of the four you
>mention were vocalists, not instrumentalists . . . which strikes me as
>missing one of the major subtexts of this thread. I thought the discussion
>related to something like "instrumental music without substance that sells
>like Big Macs while instrumental music of substance plays for the door at
>your local lounge."
>
Mr. Ferguson,
Did you ever hear of a small piano bar called The Sharecropper???
D*
A fan of the pianist there.
These comments are meant to offend everyone equally. If, for some reason you are not offended, please write me with a description of
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Don
<jonatho...@NOhotmail.com> wrote:
>Larry Fletcher wrote...
>| I heard some time ago that Kenny G. had been placed in the Guiness Book of
>| World Records for playing the longest continual note on a horn without
>| stopping, proving once and for all that it is completely possible to blow
>and
>| suck at the same time.
>
>This happened a couple of years ago. I believe it was something around 45
>minutes of continuous torture (err, sound.)
Pardon my comment but...SO F**KING WHAT??? Who the hell gives a s**t
how many minutes he can hold a stupid, boring note???
Who cares?
I work with MANY local musicians who:
1. Play MUCH better than Kenny G(ag)
2. Do not have the fat recording contract he has.
D*
Jon Parker
| Pardon my comment but...SO F**KING WHAT??? Who the hell gives a s**t
| how many minutes he can hold a stupid, boring note???
|
| Who cares?
Exactly my point, it really isn't a worthwhile musical accomplishment.
| I work with MANY local musicians who:
|
| 1. Play MUCH better than Kenny G(ag)
|
| 2. Do not have the fat recording contract he has.
Right again, there are so many better players out there that don't get the
recognition he does because he caters only to the popular crowd.
Brian
<jonatho...@NOhotmail.com> wrote:
>Australia some aborigine has played a continuous note on a didjeridoo for
>hours if not days, and wouldn't even care about the recognition of being
>better than Kenny G.
In through the nose, out through the mouth. Don't know how they do it
..... but they do.
Brian
Downunder
John Brock
Jon Parker <jonatho...@NOhotmail.com> wrote:
>Don wrote...
>| Pardon my comment but...SO F**KING WHAT??? Who the hell gives a s**t
>| how many minutes he can hold a stupid, boring note???
>|
>| Who cares?
>Exactly my point, it really isn't a worthwhile musical accomplishment.
It was however an accomplishment entirely appropriate to the Guiness
Book of World Records, which is probably all he was going for. (I
wonder if they have categories suitable for piano, like fastest
Hanon?)
--
John Brock
jbr...@panix.com
Rick Clark
expression. I have put one in the hands of a few good horn players,
and they couldn't even get a start on them. They couldn't even
concieve of how to play it, actually.
It is an oversimplification to say they are only capable of one note-
though there is a drone aspect to them. One varies the intensity of
various odd harmonics mostly. Even though there are only a couple
fundamental tones available, one can shift the harmonics (which are
quite complex and variable) in such a way that a very wide range of
expression or modulation is available. There is a great variety of
tone colors available, though granted little in the way of melody.
There is also a very strong rhythmic aspect to the usual ways of
playing. It can simultaneously fill both a rhythmic and a sort of
"pedal tone" aspect to a composition or improvisation. It also mimics
human voice in some ways.
Didjeridu often appears in incidental music in films, I have noticed,
as it is very moody. A lot of people probably assume it's some kind of
weird synthesizer sound.
Rick Clark
Don
How about circular breathing for the piano?
I can play the piano and breath in and out for hours without missing a
note!!!
I can even play the piano and drink vodka at the same tiime!
Al Stevens
Jon Parker wrote in message ...
>BTW, how is you little vacation?
Great. Home for a couple of days. Just spent two weeks in Pennsyvania and
Virginia. Very nice (cool) weather. I'm off again tomorrow.
Al Stevens
Tom W. Ferguson wrote in message ...
>> Welk's era had several -- Liberace, Fabian, Elvis, Wayne Newton, ad
nauseum.
>
>I should have written "its Lawrence Welks." However, three of the four you
>mention were vocalists, not instrumentalists ...
Three of the four were both. (I don't know whether Fabian did anything
else.) Liberace sang. Elvis played guitar. Wayne Newton plays many
instruments quite well including accordian, banjo, guitar, and trumpet. Even
Diana Krall, the original subject of this thread is a now primarily a
vocalist.
>(Give me five minutes and I'll run down to the corner saloon and
>find 15 barflies who can recite you a complete paragraph on who Al Hirt
was;
>in response to the later post, I won't find anyone in that same bar who has
>ever heard of Arturo Sandoval.)
More's the shame. (If the bar was near a Cuban community, your stats would
be reversed.) Those barflies wouldn't know who Diz and Bird were either. But
take your questions to a local jazz room if you're lucky enough to have one
nearby. Or ask any trumpet player.
>Of course, if you want to make a case for "Java" being music of substance,
that's another story.
No, I don't care to. Sorry if I gave that impression.
>His [Hirt's] greatest success came from his least substantive material
Greatest commercial success, not greatest artistic success, of course.
Coincidentally (to this discussion), Hirt first got national attention as a
guest on the Welk show when Pete Fountain was a regular. That "several-year
run as a pop instrumentalist" was only a brief episode in his career. Prior
to and after that he was a successful and respected jazz musician and his
recordings from those times reflect that material. I would guess that on
balance, his long term success with jazz might even overshadow the pop
stuff, certainly in numbers of recordings made if not in numbers of
recordings sold. Among jazz fans, the jazz sides and performances are the
ones for which he is remembered. And, since you can't take royalties to the
great beyond but you do leave a legacy, that's the important thing to know
about Al Hirt.
Jon Parker
| In through the nose, out through the mouth. Don't know how they do it
| ..... but they do.
Try this with a glass of water and a straw. Inhale and breathe out through
the straw puffing out your cheeks as well. When you need to inhale, use up
the air in your cheeks, and then seemlessly connect the the air from your
lungs again. With the straw/water glass, try to keep bubbles flowing the
whole time. If you have access to a horn, try it there.
In my early tuba days, I would practice didjeridoo for hours each day to
strengthen my lips (and because it was fun.) I could bark, and do all kinds
of weird things with it that I transfered over to the tuba. The other kids
in the school band would go crazy when I would be playing along and then
they would hear a woosh of overtones go up and down and I wouldn't miss any
notes. Those were the days.
guy f klose
>Kenny G has played "real jazz" on other people's recordings
>under his real name. I can't remember how he played...perhaps not very
>memorable.
At least one group was the Jeff Lorber Fusion, which in later years
became "The Jeff Lorber Fusion featuring Kenny G" (I don't recall
"featuring Kenny Gorelick", but then again that was lotsa brain cells
ago). So, I heard the JLF live, circa 1980, but I was never much of
a fan. It was very nondescript to me, and not something I would
particularly label "real jazz." To others, though, that might have
been the be-all-end-all (but it's unlikely, seeing as how frequently
you hear JLF come up in coversation these days).
BTW, a few weeks back, about the time I heard about Pat Metheny's
comments on the G-man, I saw some kind of a TV special that featured
the G-man himself. He was playing "Girl From Ipanema" and it really
sucked. I'm really not one to sit around and bash musicians, especially
successful ones, but "Girl From Ipanema" really and truly did suck.
I couldn't watch. It was horrendous. If that's from a new album, I'll
have to make sure that I never hear it.
Jon Parker
| BTW, a few weeks back, about the time I heard about Pat Metheny's
| comments on the G-man, I saw some kind of a TV special that featured
| the G-man himself. He was playing "Girl From Ipanema" and it really
| sucked.
He really is trying to swoon not just the pop community, but those who know
even a little bit more about jazz than the average person. GFI, overdubbing
on Satchmo, and what's next? In The "G" Mood? Take The "G" Train? "G's"
Are A Few Of My Favorite Things? "G" Jam Blues? Fly "G" to the Moon? Do
Nothing Till You Hear From "G"? Oye Como "G"? Salt "G"nuts? Someone to
Watch Over "G"? Tan"G"erine? Things Ain't What They Used To "G"?
He should be playing the Charlie Parker tune "Thriving On A Riff."
robertandrews
>overdubbing on Satchmo
Is this true? Which song? That's obviously more about money than music.
And I hate the idea, it's like conjuring up the colorized ghosts of Bogart &
Chaplin to sell coca-cola.
Al Stevens
robertandrews wrote in message ...
Yeah. And using the Duke to sell beer and Astair to sell vacuum cleaners or
whatever it was. Celebrities need a way to say in their will that if their
estate uses their images for commercial gain, the heirs get cut off and all
the remaining money goes to the ASPCA or something.
James Scott Yassick
the guy, yet he's selling boatloads of albums. Somebody's buying them. Reminds
me of when the Carpenter's were a big thing. People outwardly despised them,
yet secretly owned all of the albums. I think that may be the case with G.
Jon Parker
| Here's the thing I can't figure out: everybody I've ever spoken with can't
stand
| the guy, yet he's selling boatloads of albums. Somebody's buying them.
Reminds
| me of when the Carpenter's were a big thing. People outwardly despised
them,
| yet secretly owned all of the albums. I think that may be the case with
G.
To put this straight, I never bash music or musicians that I am unfamiliar
with. I do own a Kenny G Album (only one though,) and I have heard just
about everything else he has put out (sheesh, I was in Mexico last year, and
my hotel's backround music kept playing him.)
You probably are talking with the more educated listeners. The average
person doesn't know much about music, and buys what they like to hear,
whether it be G, boy bands, bubble gum chick singers, metal, whatever.
Those people are the norm here in the US. They are buying his albums. A
couple of years ago, Kenny put out a Christmas album. It sold gazillions of
copies. Kenny G is jewish.
Jon Parker
| >overdubbing on Satchmo
robertandrews wrote...
| Is this true? Which song? That's obviously more about money than music.
It is true. Although I have not heard it yet, I can only imagine. That is
what eventually led Pat Metheny to say such nice words about him. The
really sad thing, is this sort of trick not only gets the pop audience to
buy the disc, but those of us serious musicians who are curious to really
find out about it are going to buy it as well. He really is laughing all
the way to the bank (ha, I cra**ed on the grave of Satchmo, every
unknowledgable person bought it, and every jazz musician bought it out of
curiousity. I must be great. Cha-ching!)
To think that he puts himself in the same regards as Louis Armstrong is
unbelievable. To think he would do it jsut for money is even worse, and it
makes me sick thinking about it.
Jon Parker
| On this particular point his religion or ethnicity doesn't matter.
There's
| a long history of Jewish people performing & even writing Christmas songs.
| Phil Spector probably had the best rock 'n roll Christmas album. Also
it's
| possible that Kenny G. actually celebrates Christmas; I don't know much
| about his personal beliefs or if he married a Christian woman.
Right, I should have put a smily there. It seems around Christmas time, I
end up hiring a few jewish bass players that I've played with for a long
time. They all know the Christmas standards, but it is just a hair funny.
I know Ha va Nagila (sp?) by heart as I learned it growing up playing with a
jewish saxaphonist. I don't mean to say that ethnicity or race should have
anything to do with what music you know, G's case just seems like another
example of $$$$. The man is good (business wise.)
| I don't see how you can complain about the money he's making if you
support
| him financially. I hope someone gave you the CD to be used as a coaster,
| rather than for musical entertainment. If everyone in America did the
same
| he'd probably be a billionaire.
When he first started to get big I had to go out and buy one of his albums
to at least check him out. Without having listened to him like I listen to
all music, I would have no basis for judgement. The only entertaining part
of the CD was the laughter that I got when I realized that this guy was
making millions, and the pop community thought he was jazz.
| The Carpenters had a lot a musicality to their songs. Karen Carpenter had
a
| very distinctive voice, and was much admired by fellow singers. Their
| harmony tracks were quite complex. The Carpenters made some pretty,
| excellently written & produced pop songs. I'm not too familiar with Kenny
| G.'s music, but from what I've heard I'd consider it an insult to compare
| him with the Carpenters.
I like the Carpenters, and yes, they shouldn't be compared to Kenny G. They
had more substance in their music than he does.
| Despite his technique, he sounds like a faker. If
| he's happy faking his jazz, good for him. If he cares about what other
| musicians think, I guess he's not completely fulfilled. In my view he
| should leave Louis Armstrong's music alone.
He really seems to be a faker, and if he's not, then I would like to hear
something of his that would cater to the jazz community, after all, he is
about money so why not give those of us who see through his popular music
something to buy and enjoy too? He could even use his real name, Kenny
Gorelick so the pop crowd wouldn't know it was him and maybe it wouldn't
hurt his reputation. As far as Armstrong is concerned, no one should have
the right to touch his music.
Larry Fletcher
>Are A Few Of My Favorite Things? "G" Jam Blues? Fly "G" to the Moon? Do
>Nothing Till You Hear From "G"? Oye Como "G"? Salt "G"nuts? Someone to
>Watch Over "G"? Tan"G"erine? Things Ain't What They Used To "G"?
>
>He should be playing the Charlie Parker tune "Thriving On A Riff."
>
>--
>Jon Parker
Now *that* was some good work, Jon. lol
robertandrews
>A couple of years ago, Kenny put out a Christmas album. It sold gazillions
of copies. Kenny G is jewish.
On this particular point his religion or ethnicity doesn't matter. There's
a long history of Jewish people performing & even writing Christmas songs.
Phil Spector probably had the best rock 'n roll Christmas album. Also it's
possible that Kenny G. actually celebrates Christmas; I don't know much
about his personal beliefs or if he married a Christian woman.
>I do own a Kenny G Album
I don't see how you can complain about the money he's making if you support
him financially. I hope someone gave you the CD to be used as a coaster,
rather than for musical entertainment. If everyone in America did the same
he'd probably be a billionaire.
The Carpenters had a lot a musicality to their songs. Karen Carpenter had a
very distinctive voice, and was much admired by fellow singers. Their
harmony tracks were quite complex. The Carpenters made some pretty,
excellently written & produced pop songs. I'm not too familiar with Kenny
G.'s music, but from what I've heard I'd consider it an insult to compare
him with the Carpenters. Despite his technique, he sounds like a faker. If
James Scott Yassick
G and the Carpenters. I was trying to show that both were/are popular, and the
people who outwardly express a dislike for their music, in many cases own the
albums.
Jon, I can play Ha va Nagila on the harmonica (in D).
Jon Parker wrote:
> robertandrews wrote...
> | On this particular point his religion or ethnicity doesn't matter.
> There's
> | a long history of Jewish people performing & even writing Christmas songs.
> | Phil Spector probably had the best rock 'n roll Christmas album. Also
> it's
> | possible that Kenny G. actually celebrates Christmas; I don't know much
> | about his personal beliefs or if he married a Christian woman.
>
> Right, I should have put a smily there. It seems around Christmas time, I
> end up hiring a few jewish bass players that I've played with for a long
> time. They all know the Christmas standards, but it is just a hair funny.
> I know Ha va Nagila (sp?) by heart as I learned it growing up playing with a
> jewish saxaphonist. I don't mean to say that ethnicity or race should have
> anything to do with what music you know, G's case just seems like another
> example of $$$$. The man is good (business wise.)
>
> | I don't see how you can complain about the money he's making if you
> support
> | him financially. I hope someone gave you the CD to be used as a coaster,
> | rather than for musical entertainment. If everyone in America did the
> same
> | he'd probably be a billionaire.
>
> When he first started to get big I had to go out and buy one of his albums
> to at least check him out. Without having listened to him like I listen to
> all music, I would have no basis for judgement. The only entertaining part
> of the CD was the laughter that I got when I realized that this guy was
> making millions, and the pop community thought he was jazz.
>
> | The Carpenters had a lot a musicality to their songs. Karen Carpenter had
> a
> | very distinctive voice, and was much admired by fellow singers. Their
> | harmony tracks were quite complex. The Carpenters made some pretty,
> | excellently written & produced pop songs. I'm not too familiar with Kenny
> | G.'s music, but from what I've heard I'd consider it an insult to compare
> | him with the Carpenters.
>
> I like the Carpenters, and yes, they shouldn't be compared to Kenny G. They
> had more substance in their music than he does.
>
> | Despite his technique, he sounds like a faker. If
> | he's happy faking his jazz, good for him. If he cares about what other
> | musicians think, I guess he's not completely fulfilled. In my view he
> | should leave Louis Armstrong's music alone.
>
Mark Mandell
John Tesch, another illustration of the triumph of style
over content. The fact that he co-hosted "Entertainment
Tonight" for a long time as well as being the tall WASP he
is gave him a popular following which we "keyboard
cognoscenti" are admittedly disdainful of.
Mark Mandell
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Adam Bravo
spelling-don't flame me), but he realized what sort of music Tesh played. So
let's not make generalizations that everyone that likes G (did I spell that
right?) or Tesh thinks that they are jazz or whatever.
"Mark Mandell" <msmandl...@worldnet.att.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:0a0133f8...@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com...
Adam Bravo
> wishy-washy fans that say things like, "yeah, I like jazz...Kenny G
> is one of my favorites."
One angle nobody has looked at:
Is Elvis offended that he is called rock and so is Limp Biscuit? (Probably
he is)
Does Beethoven care that he is called classical and so are Debussy,
Stravinsky, and Chopin?(He probably does)
Does it matter to King Oliver that he is called jazz and so is John
Coltrane?(It probably does)
Why is everybody making such a big deal out of this when King Oliver and
John Coltrane are as different as night and day and still being called the
same thing?
Jon Parker
| Sorry for the confusion here. I wasn't attempting to compare the music
between
| G and the Carpenters. I was trying to show that both were/are popular,
and the
| people who outwardly express a dislike for their music, in many cases own
the
| albums.
No confusion. I think that people who hate music need to know why they hate
it, so it isn't neccessarily a bad thing that they buy an album or two.
| Jon, I can play Ha va Nagila on the harmonica (in D).
I learned it in D too :-)
Jon Parker
Adam Bravo wrote...
| Why is everybody making such a big deal out of this when King Oliver
and
| John Coltrane are as different as night and day and still being called the
| same thing?
Because unlike G, most of us probably feel like King Oliver and John
Coltrane comtributed to bring jazz where it is today. So then it gets to
guys like Kenny G: jazz is supposed to get better, not worse.
Adam Bravo
are you saying that the classification of the music is dependant upon the
quality of it? "Adam Bravo"s criminal record is filed under B no matter what
kind of criminal he is. Oh well.
"Jon Parker" <jonatho...@NOhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DHob5.667$XV1.1...@news.uswest.net...
Larry Fletcher
>| Why is everybody making such a big deal out of this when......
I think they all need to get together and form a band. Yanni on synths, Tesch
on piano, Kenny G. can suck and blow, Ringo Starr can play drums, and they can
do an overdub with The Carpenters, plugging in pictures of Tiny Tim on ukelele
and the fat Elvis can throw towels into the crowd. Put Yoko Ono on washtub, the
Schmengali Brothers can sing backup, Captain Kirk can bring his TV commercial
band for the rhythm section, and he can take the lead. Sorry, but I just don't
see him singing harmony anywhere in the group. They can do a Jewish version of
the Carpenter's Christmas album. They can call the group White Jazz, and the
Album can be called Schlemile's Do Rudolph.
Feel free to add other members to the band, or expand their repertoire, as you
see fit. This will be a major production, so spare no expense.
Jon Parker
| That sounds reasonable enough, and I was expecting that sort of answer.
But
| are you saying that the classification of the music is dependant upon the
| quality of it?
Not necessarily. The real point here is that he is making lots of money
<-this is not the problem) and people think he is playing jazz. Some
people (you might find some of them on rec.music.bluenote) think that jazz
died 30 years ago. We don't know what the styles of today are going to be
called in twenty or one hundred years. So, saying Kenny G is jazz means he
must be compared to the likes of John Coltrane and Wayne Shorter (to throw
Pat Metheny's argument on the table.) He really doesn't compare to those
players and a long list of other players that he should be compared to if he
really is playing jazz. His harmonic concept doesn't seem to match the
direction that jazz has taken, not even some other post fusion smooth jazz.
So maybe in one hundred years, music scholars will analyze his playing and
find things we have overlooked, but I doubt it. The fact is, the man is
doing a great job at making a living, and to him, that seems to be what
counts. Calling what he is doing jazz, lessens what other players have
worked hard to achieve as far as new harmonic concepts and ideas.
| "Adam Bravo"s criminal record is filed under B no matter what
| kind of criminal he is. Oh well.
That only means that they file my case after yours. You will probably end
up getting out of jail sooner.
Adam Bravo
"Larry Fletcher" <larryin...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20000713150455...@ng-fx1.aol.com...
Jon Parker
Larry Fletcher wrote...
| Feel free to add other members to the band, or expand their repertoire, as
you
| see fit. This will be a major production, so spare no expense.
Good one Larry! LOL! Don't forget the Star Spangled Banner before the main
players come onto the stage. Downloadable MP3's will be made available
courtesy of Napster. After the band has left, an announcer will say, "the
Cheese has left the building."
imagineer_bob
Tesch are Yamaha artists! Makes you want to stay far away of
Yamahas!
I have less respect for Yanni than I do for Tesch because I get
the feeling that Yanni can actually play well, if he wanted to.
He just found a formula that makes him rich.
Tesch is pure schlock, plain and simple, and he's doing the best
he can musically.
--
ib
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
CalmGlassS
jbr...@panix.com (John Brock) wrote:
>
> >Exactly my point, it really isn't a worthwhile musical
accomplishment.
>
> It was however an accomplishment entirely appropriate to the Guiness
> Book of World Records, which is probably all he was going for. (I
> wonder if they have categories suitable for piano, like fastest
> Hanon?)
> --
> John Brock
> jbr...@panix.com
>
Well Liberacci was named world's fastest Pianist in the 50s. He could
play 6,000 notes in 2 minutes. He was also sincerely convinced that he
was Liszt reincarnated.
--
________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: No Electrons were harmed during the composition of this msg.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
CalmGlassS
"Al Stevens" <alst...@midifitz.com> wrote:
> I have all her albums so far. Her work, vocally and on the piano, is
very
> good to the ears of this jazz pianist. But her photographer should
have won
> the Grammy. Those pics make her look really great, and that's
probably what
> those 50 year eyes old saw.
>
> But, then again, Dinah Washington was no beauty, either.
>
>
Hey, that's what I thought too.. I think she holds her own pretty well
on the Piano, and I definitely love hearing her sing.
robertandrews
>I have less respect for Yanni than I do for Tesch because I get the feeling
that Yanni can actually play well, if he wanted to. He just found a formula
the best he can musically.
If your analysis is correct, I have more respect for Tesch. Yanni is a
dishonest fraud or musical whore, and Tesch is simply expressing himself.
Yanni is also cheating himself by playing inferior music, while Tesch is
just a schlock-meister who hit the lottery.
p.s. I've commissioned Rupert Holmes to write the songs for Larry's
All-Stars.
LstPuritan
>Well Liberacci was named world's fastest Pianist in the 50s
By whom?
>He could
>play 6,000 notes in 2 minutes.
Single repeated notes? Two handed scales? Pounding both forearms?
--Justin
**************************
www.mp3.com/justin_d_scott
**************************
Liszt, Scriabin, Schoenberg, Bach
Fractal Composition, Original Works
Debussy Orchestrations, and More
imagineer_bob
>p.s. I've commissioned Rupert Holmes to write the songs for
Larry's
>All-Stars.
I'm really surprised that he's still writing songs, but Susannah
McCorkle keeps singing 'em. He hasn't advance much since his
Pina Colada days.
KathyT.
personally am a John Tesh fan (no flames please; I'm too old to be upset or
influenced). His concerts are full of joy and the blend of classical and
contemporary instruments is awesome. Seeing them perform, even on video is
truly a treat. If anyone is interested in what John does and why he does
it, go to
www.parable.com/feature/tesh/tesh_home.asp
--
Kathy
******************************************************
The Lord will perfect that which concerns me.
Psalm 138:8 (God's promise for 2000)
"imagineer_bob" <remarqN...@robert.to.invalid> wrote in message
news:0811ee1c...@usw-ex0102-016.remarq.com...
johnti
> quality of it?
We have been touching this point in alt.music.swing. If it's not up to scratch
it doesn't qualify as whatever genre of music it's trying to be. (like if you
play german folk music with 5 electric guitars and 2 electric basses it is not
legitimately german folk music either) In kenny g's case, if he's not swinging,
he's messing the tune and not respecting the fundamentals of playing good jazz,
then it just doesn't qualify. Say for classical piano, if someone was playing
Rhapsody in Blue, was playing it poorly, was playing it in a style outside the
realms of classical piano, and basically had no or very little musical depth and
skill, the people around who recognised what it means to play a piece properly
would tell the others, "that's not classical piano." (or more accurately, "that
is not a valid representation of the music") That's the difference...
Why they ever recorded Kenny G learning an instrument,
AND attempting to learn jazz I will never know!
robertandrews
>Say for classical piano, if someone was playing Rhapsody in Blue, was
playing it poorly, was playing it in a style outside the realms of classical
piano, and basically had no or very little musical depth and skill, the
people around who recognised what it means to play a piece properly would
tell the others, "that's not classical piano."
That's interesting, because I don't think Gershwin composed many classical
pieces. I wonder if Gershwin himself could play up to classical standards.
I'm not an expert on Rhapsody, but it doesn't seem to fit a strict
definition of 20th century classical music. Is Peterson capable of playing
a good Rhapsody? Better than Andre Watts? To me, if Rhapsody doesn't swing
it won't sound good. Perhaps this piece, because it seems to blend styles,
is a bad example to prove your point.
I think one can be true to a traditional style & sound great. I also think
one can dabble in or master a style, change it to suit one's needs, and
sound great. I'm not sure Kenny G is trying to be a jazz player; it's clear
he doesn't play good jazz. I feel he's changing the style to suit his
needs -- I just don't like the way he's done it, his expression &
arrangements. Gershwin blended jazz, pop & classical -- brilliantly.
Most musicians who have improved or changed styles have mastered or at least
studied the older ones. Occasionally there are gifted people & geniuses
that seem to create amazing music without much effort or intensive study. I
suppose Tesch, Yanni & Kenny G are far from genius status, nor have they
really mastered any traditional styles. They don't have much importance in
music history, but some people are entertained by their music.
Whether it's pop, pop/jazz, modern jazz, muzak, ragtime or bornean
serialism, I don't like Kenny G.
meg...@darla.badm.sc.edu
through all the esponses on this thread.
On her CD "When I Look in Your Eyes," there is a 13th song that is not
listed on the CD cover. The song "Should I Care" was written by Clint
Eastwood among others and was part of the background music to his movie
"True Crime." You get the impression that this song could have been
written in the 1940s, and Diana does a great job with it.
Bruce Meglino
Marsha Rider
"Don" wrote
> Mr. Ferguson,
>
> Did you ever hear of a small piano bar called The Sharecropper???
>
> D*
> A fan of the pianist there.
>
>
Well, if MR. Ferguson hasn't, I certainly have. However I was too young
to experience it first hand but know of the lore of the Sharecropper via
my friend Dagmar.
But I have heard "the pianist there" many times at other venues. Wish
I could hear him again.
A fan of the man,
Marsha
Tom Shaw
to the public is like calling Bill Gates a computer whore, all politicians
legislative whores (perhaps closer to the truth), lawyers legal whores, MDs
medical whores, etc. etc. According to you guys everybody should give their
talent, or lack of it, to the world for nothing and starve.
TS
PS. I think Yanni stinks at what he does (but I think Welk was great at what
he did) and have never heard Tesch but I have been hearing jazz musicians
diss commercial musicians all my life. Also heard jazz guys diss country,
polka, classical, and every other non-jazz musical format all that time.
Bottom line is you can play anything well, or badly...even the didgeridu :-)
And that is about all the judgement you are entitled to give.
TS
robertandrews wrote in message ...
>imagineer_bob <remarqN...@robert.to.invalid> wrote:
>>I have less respect for Yanni than I do for Tesch because I get the
feeling
>that Yanni can actually play well, if he wanted to. He just found a formula
>that makes him rich.Tesch is pure schlock, plain and simple, and he's doing
>the best he can musically.
>
>If your analysis is correct, I have more respect for Tesch. Yanni is a
>dishonest fraud or musical whore, and Tesch is simply expressing himself.
>Yanni is also cheating himself by playing inferior music, while Tesch is
>just a schlock-meister who hit the lottery.
>
Adam Bravo
called, I belive, "Has Jazz Influenced the Symphony?" Berenstein says yes,
Krupa says no. I don't really have a side, but I agree with Krupa in that I
don't hear a lot of jazz in "Rhapsody in Blue." Some of the chord voicings
are awfully jazz-like, but the essential jazz beat is missing. Odd, since
Gershwin's whole point in writing the Rhapsody was to show the flexibility
of jazz rhythms.
P.S. I'm performing part of the Rhapsody tomorrow at a recital, and am sick
of it (it is very hard for my level of playng). So please don't make me
think of it more than I have to.
"robertandrews" <robert...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9zAb5.1139$z01.4...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
Tom W. Ferguson
>> Did you ever hear of a small piano bar called The Sharecropper???
>>
>> D*
>> A fan of the pianist there.
>>
>>
> Well, if MR. Ferguson hasn't, I certainly have.
But WHERE is it? (I'm so deep in the sticks that bars are not that easy to
find, let alone pianos.)
Jon Parker
Adam Bravo wrote...
| That's another story. Gene Krupa and Leonard Berenstein wrote something
| called, I belive, "Has Jazz Influenced the Symphony?" Berenstein says yes,
| Krupa says no.
If you ask me, I think serious music affected jazz. Listen to Ravel and
Debussy: they were well ahead of the first jazz musicians for the time as
far as harmony was concerned. It has taken us years to reach that level of
harmony in the jazz world.
Tom Shaw
the jazz guys were ahead of the symphony guys in terms of harmony was wrong
(I hadn't heard enough classical). On the other hand the classical guys do
not ever, ever catch the beat of jazz. The harmonic constructions jazz
players have used have lagged the classical guys by at least 30 years or
more.
To Adam Bravo.
FWIW
It is well known on this ng that I think Gershwin was a terrible classical
writer. Unless you want to impress a bunch of popular classical music
dilettants forget about Gershwin. It is a cult thing in the worst sense of
the word. Having read your mature-for-your-age posts I wonder why you
weren't sick of Rhapsody on first reading:-). Very perceptive of you, IMO,
to notice the lack of beat in Rhapsody...there are lots of folks much more
experienced than you who have not seen it yet.
TS
Jon Parker wrote in message <4rKb5.536$AC5.1...@news.uswest.net>...
Jon Parker
| It is well known on this ng that I think Gershwin was a terrible classical
| writer.
I would agree. I am still a sucker for AIP played by CBS + members of the
NYP conducted by Bernstien. I still have it on vinyl.
robertandrews
>According to you guys everybody should give their talent, or lack of it, to
the world for nothing and starve.
I didn't call Yanni a whore. I said if imaginer bob's analysis is correct,
he's either a fraud, whore or cheating himself. In that case, I'd have more
respect for someone who plays what he feels & believes. I don't care if
he's richer than Gates, and I agree with your comments about putting down
other musical styles.
Radu Focshaner
>
> Tom Shaw wrote...
> | It is well known on this ng that I think Gershwin was a terrible classical
> | writer.
>
> I would agree. I am still a sucker for AIP played by CBS + members of the
> NYP conducted by Bernstien. I still have it on vinyl.
>
> --
> Jon Parker
Once again, I remind you that I was about the same age as Adam (or less)
when I have hand copied RIB and AIP and attempted to play them. And this
did not impaired my intelectual developement. And well, Gershwin was not
a classical writer - so what ? I'm not too fond of his "popular" music,
but I love RIB, Porgy and Bess and the "Preludes".
(News flash - just now I am totally "devastated" by Chopin Nocturne
No.13 in C minor, op.48 no.1, played by Garrick Ohlsson on one of the
most awsome pianos)
Marsha Rider
I am sorry to say either this Tom is only a namesake or he toys with us.
Tom, the Sharecropper was, like most jazz clubs, on the wrong side of the tracks
in a lazy town on a Mighty river. Great jazz was said to have flowed from it (along
with a lot of other things). The pianist there was said to have influenced
a number of fine pianists , James Williams and Mullgrew Miller to name two.
His jazz friends often sat in there as well as at a local university's jazz
bands' concerts (Clark Terry, Marvin Stamm, etc).
M*
"Tom W. Ferguson" <t...@pathwaynet.com> wrote in message news:B594B5A0.68F3%t...@pathwaynet.com...
CalmGlassS
lstpu...@aol.com (LstPuritan) wrote:
> CalmGlass wrote:
> >Well Liberacci was named world's fastest Pianist in the 50s
>
> By whom?
By Ripley's believe it or not
>
> >He could
> >play 6,000 notes in 2 minutes.
>
> Single repeated notes? Two handed scales? Pounding both forearms?
I found this on a website that didn't give all the details, but they
were continuous two hand notes.... not sure about what technique he
employed. If you want to look it up, I believe it was the 1953 edition
of Ripley's.
>
> --Justin
>
> **************************
> www.mp3.com/justin_d_scott
> **************************
> Liszt, Scriabin, Schoenberg, Bach
> Fractal Composition, Original Works
> Debussy Orchestrations, and More
>
--
________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: No Electrons were harmed during the composition of this msg.
Jon Parker
CalmGlassS wrote...
| > >Well Liberacci was named world's fastest Pianist in the 50s
| >
| > By whom?
|
| By Ripley's believe it or not
Do you believe everything you read?
| I found this on a website that didn't give all the details, but they
| were continuous two hand notes.... not sure about what technique he
| employed. If you want to look it up, I believe it was the 1953 edition
| of Ripley's.
I wonder who would be the fastest today?
pTooner
Jon Parker wrote:
> CalmGlassS wrote...
> | > >Well Liberacci was named world's fastest Pianist in the 50s
> | >
> | > By whom?
> |
> | By Ripley's believe it or not
>
> Do you believe everything you read?
>
> | I found this on a website
In last month's Capital M (The reasonably prestigious newsletter of the
Washington DC Mensa group) an article mentioned among other tidbits the
"fact" that 11% of the world population was homosexual. When I emailed the
editor asking for his source for this astounding bit of information he said
he "Found it somewhere on the web!"
Believe it --- Or Not!
Gerry-
<<They say money can't buy you happiness, but as we all know, that's a load
of
tree-hugging hippy crap.>>
Larry Fletcher
>
>--
>Jon Parker
Spuds McKensie, rural route mail carrier in Garfield, Kansas. Spuds claims he
developed his rapid speed by constantly sorting the mail as he drove his route.
It took longer than he hoped though, because he only had 9 stops on his 55 mile
route, and since old lady Bucknell rarely got any mail, it was really like only
having 8.
Spuds set his record at the Garfield County Fair in 1998, on a 1922 Clinton
Upright. Spuds said he could have played even faster, but the piano couldn't be
trusted.
CalmGlassS
pTooner <ge...@geddings.net> wrote:
>
>
> Jon Parker wrote:
>
> > CalmGlassS wrote...
> > | > >Well Liberacci was named world's fastest Pianist in the 50s
> > | >
> > | > By whom?
> > |
> > | By Ripley's believe it or not
> >
> > Do you believe everything you read?
> >
> > | I found this on a website
>
> In last month's Capital M (The reasonably prestigious newsletter of
the
> Washington DC Mensa group) an article mentioned among other tidbits
the
> "fact" that 11% of the world population was homosexual. When I
emailed the
> editor asking for his source for this astounding bit of information
he said
> he "Found it somewhere on the web!"
> Believe it --- Or Not!
Boy are you the ever the skeptical one! I really don't care if you
don't believe it...but if you have to look it up, check out the
Liberacci museum's website (it's based in Las Vegas), Ripley's, but
information I got was on a website that concentrated on his
Biolgraphy...feel free to do a search on the because I don't feel like
looking for it right now... nor am I going to sit here trying to prove
anything; because it really isn't any big of a deal. I just found it
fascinating that he could play 6,000 notes in 2 minutes.
Joe Moore
Here goes:
From the Q&A section of Metheny's web site:
============================================
kenny g is not a musician i really had much of an opinion about at all
until recently. there was not much about the way he played that
interested me one way or the other either live or on records. i first
heard him a number of years ago playing as a sideman with jeff lorber
when they opened a concert for my band. my impression was that he was
someone who had spent a fair amount of time listening to the more pop
oriented sax players of that time, like grover washington or david
sanborn, but was not really an advanced player, even in that style. he
had major rhythmic problems and his harmonic and melodic vocabulary
was extremely limited, mostly to pentatonic based and blues-lick
derived patterns, and he basically exhibited only a rudimentary
understanding of how to function as a professional soloist in an
ensemble - lorber was basically playing him off the bandstand in terms
of actual music. but he did show a knack for connecting to the basest
impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three most
effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast runs - never mind
that there were lots of harmonic clams in them) at the keys moments to
elicit a powerful crowd reaction (over and over again) . the other
main thing i noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, play
horribly out of tune - consistently sharp.
of course, i am aware of what he has played since, the success it has
had, and the controversy that has surrounded him among musicians and
serious listeners. this controversy seems to be largely fueled by the
fact that he sells an enormous amount of records while not being
anywhere near a really great player in relation to the standards that
have been set on his instrument over the past sixty or seventy years.
and honestly, there is no small amount of envy involved from musicians
who see one of their fellow players doing so well financially,
especially when so many of them who are far superior as improvisors
and musicians in general have trouble just making a living. there must
be hundreds, if not thousands of sax players around the world who are
simply better improvising musicians than kenny g on his chosen
instruments. it would really surprise me if even he disagreed with
that statement.
having said that, it has gotten me to thinking lately why so many jazz
musicians (myself included, given the right "bait" of a question, as i
will explain later) and audiences have gone so far as to say that what
he is playing is not even jazz at all.
stepping back for a minute, if we examine the way he plays, especially
if one can remove the actual improvising from the often mundane
background environment that it is delivered in, we see that his
saxophone style is in fact clearly in the tradition of the kind of
playing that most reasonably objective listeners WOULD normally
quantify as being jazz. it's just that as jazz or even as music in a
general sense, with these standards in mind, it is simply not up to
the level of playing that we historically associate with professional
improvising musicians. so, lately i have been advocating that we go
ahead and just include it under the word jazz - since pretty much of
the rest of the world OUTSIDE of the jazz community does anyway - and
let the chips fall where they may.
and after all, why he should be judged by any other standard, why he
should be exempt from that that all other serious musicians on his
instrument are judged by if they attempt to use their abilities in an
improvisational context playing with a rhythm section as he does? he
SHOULD be compared to john coltrane or wayne shorter, for instance, on
his abilities (or lack thereof) to play the soprano saxophone and his
success (or lack thereof) at finding a way to deploy that instrument
in an ensemble in order to accurately gauge his abilities and put them
in the context of his instrument's legacy and potential.
as a composer of even eighth note based music, he SHOULD be compared
to herbie hancock, horace silver or even grover washington. suffice it
to say, on all above counts, at this point in his development, he
wouldn't fare well.
but, like i said at the top, this relatively benign view was all
"until recently".
not long ago, kenny g put out a recording where he overdubbed himself
on top of a 30+ year old louis armstrong record, the track "what a
wonderful world". with this single move, kenny g became one of the few
people on earth i can say that i really can't use at all - as a man,
for his incredible arrogance to even consider such a thing, and as a
musician, for presuming to share the stage with the single most
important figure in our music.
this type of musical necrophilia - the technique of overdubbing on the
preexisting tracks of already dead performers - was weird when natalie
cole did it with her dad on "unforgettable" a few years ago, but it
was her dad. when tony bennett did it with billie holiday it was
bizarre, but we are talking about two of the greatest singers of the
20th century who were on roughly the same level of artistic
accomplishment. when larry coryell presumed to overdub himself on top
of a wes montgomery track, i lost a lot of the respect that i ever had
for him - and i have to seriously question the fact that i did have
respect for someone who could turn out to have have such unbelievably
bad taste and be that disrespectful to one of my personal heroes.
but when kenny g decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the
music of the man who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has
ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune,
noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing all over one of the great
louis's tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that i
would not have imagined possible. he, in one move, through his
unbelievably pretentious and calloused musical decision to embark on
this most cynical of musical paths, shit all over the graves of all
the musicians past and present who have risked their lives by going
out there on the road for years and years developing their own music
inspired by the standards of grace that louis armstrong brought to
every single note he played over an amazing lifetime as a musician. by
disrespecting louis, his legacy and by default, everyone who has ever
tried to do something positive with improvised music and what it can
be, kenny g has created a new low point in modern culture - something
that we all should be totally embarrassed about - and afraid of. we
ignore this, "let it slide", at our own peril.
his callous disregard for the larger issues of what this crass gesture
implies is exacerbated by the fact that the only reason he possibly
have for doing something this inherently wrong (on both human and
musical terms) was for the record sales and the money it would bring.
since that record came out - in protest, as insigificant as it may be,
i encourage everyone to boycott kenny g recordings, concerts and
anything he is associated with. if asked about kenny g, i will diss
him and his music with the same passion that is in evidence in this
little essay.
normally, i feel that musicians all have a hard enough time,
regardless of their level, just trying to play good and don't really
benefit from public criticism, particularly from their fellow players.
but, this is different.
there ARE some things that are sacred - and amongst any musician that
has ever attempted to address jazz at even the most basic of levels,
louis armstrong and his music is hallowed ground. to ignore this
trespass is to agree that NOTHING any musician has attempted to do
with their life in music has any intrinsic value - and i refuse to do
that. (i am also amazed that there HASN'T already been an outcry
against this among music critics - where ARE they on this?????!?!?!?!-
, magazines, etc.). everything i said here is exactly the same as what
i would say to gorelick if i ever saw him in person. and if i ever DO
see him anywhere, at any function - he WILL get a piece of my mind and
(maybe a guitar wrapped around his head.)
NOTE: this post is partially in response to the comments that people
have made regarding a short video interview excerpt with me that was
posted on the internet taken from a tv show for young people (kind of
like MTV) in poland where i was asked to address 8 to 11 year old kids
on terms that they could understand about jazz.
while enthusiastically describing the virtues of this great area of
music, i was encouraging the kids to find and listen to some of the
greats in the music and not to get confused by the sometimes
overwhelming volume of music that falls under the jazz umbrella. i
went on to say that i think that for instance, "kenny g plays the
dumbest music on the planet" - something that all 8 to 11 year kids on
the planet already intrinsically know, as anyone who has ever spent
any time around kids that age could confirm - so it gave us some
common ground for the rest of the discussion. (ADDENDUM: the only
thing wrong with the statement that i made was that i did not include
the rest of the known universe.)
the fact that this clip was released so far out of the context that it
was delivered in is a drag, but it is now done. (it's unauthorized
release out of context like that is symptomatic of the new
electronically interconnected culture that we now live in - where
pretty much anything anyone anywhere has ever said or done has the
potential to become common public property at any time.) i was
surprised by the polish people putting this clip up so far away from
the use that it was intended -really just for the attention - with no
explanation of the show it was made for - they (the polish people in
general) used to be so hip and would have been unlikely candidates to
do something like that before, but i guess everything is changing
there like it is everywhere else.
the only other thing that surprised me in the aftermath of the release
of this little interview is that ANYONE would be even a little bit
surprised that i would say such a thing, given the reality of mr. g's
music. this makes me want to go practice about 10 times harder,
because that suggests to me that i am not getting my own musical
message across clearly enough - which to me, in every single way and
intention is diametrically opposed to what Kenny G seems to be after.
=========================================================
>
Joe Moore
Joe Moore <jv2080...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:N4wc5.353256$VR.53...@news5.giganews.com...
> I found this:
<snip>
>" the other
> main thing i noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, play
> horribly out of tune - consistently sharp."
This is the one of the primary reasons, I can't stand to hear Kenny G. play.
Larry Fletcher
>> main thing i noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, play
>> horribly out of tune - consistently sharp."
>
>This is the one of the primary reasons, I can't stand to hear Kenny G. play.
>
>
I can't stand him either. But having read Pat Metheny's tiatribe, I must also
say that he seems to be a little too big for his britches, and has *way* too
high an opinion of his own importance. He comes very close to dismissing Grover
Washington as a musician, and Grover could have played circles around Metheny.
I think there is a bit of jealousy involved on his part. He certainly tried to
score commercial success - but never did. I couldn't make it all the way
through a Kenny G. song - but I can't stand Metheny either. At least Kenny G.
has some money to show for it.
(I didn't care *what* he thought until he stepped on Grover's toes.)
robertandrews
that we evaluate Kenny G's music as jazz simply because he tried but
couldn't master the form. Some great players have decided to use
traditional forms of music for their own means. Chuck Berry was not a great
blues player, nor was Little Richard a great gospel singer or boogie-woogie
pianist. They created new styles that stood on their own. Kenny G's is bad
enough without comparing him to the jazz greats -- I don't see much in
common with Louis, Duke, Bird or Miles. To my ears, he's playing fluff. He
may be expressing himself the best he can; he just doesn't have a profound
musical gift. He's a shallow man who makes shallow music for those who
require background music while boiling potatoes.
If we're going to object in principle to his overdubs on Wonderful World,
we'll have to throw out most rap music, sampled music & some electronic
music. Of course it's outrageous, but inevitable. There is nothing sacred
in a society that values money at the exclusion of all else. Greed is the
oldest song in America's fake book. I don't care if he slithers his
saxophone onto Kind of Blue or Beethoven's 9th; I'm not obligated to buy or
listen to these monstrosities. I'd never spend one penny on Kenny G.
I'm glad Metheny spoke up to try to educate people. I don't think he
understands that electronic & computerized music have the potential to
subsume all other forms. Many young people I know do not know the Beatles,
much less Mozart, Beethoven or Ellington. They know Kenny G because he's
been sold to them. Our corporate chiefs learned long ago that it's just as
easy to sell garbage as gold, as long as the public remains ignorant. Sorry
to be so cynical, but until we do a better job at enlightening people,
Metheny's remarks will have little effect. At least he's had the courage to
speak his mind & criticize a fellow musician, even if in my view his
criticisms didn't reach the heart of the matter.
Peter Deneff
musicians (they most clearly are not), but under which music industry
sub-heading are they considered "interesting composers" or "competent
players"? Is there such a standard by which we could consider them "great"
or "memorable?
By the way, if you are truly a teen, I commend you on even taking the
time to think about such things. That's encouraging!
Pete
"Adam Bravo" <ad...@home.com> wrote in message
news:FDlb5.37162$3E6.3...@news1.alsv1.occa.home.com...
> I once knew a bassist who liked Tesh (I believe I have the correct
> spelling-don't flame me), but he realized what sort of music Tesh played.
So
> let's not make generalizations that everyone that likes G (did I spell
that
> right?) or Tesh thinks that they are jazz or whatever.
>
> "Mark Mandell" <msmandl...@worldnet.att.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:0a0133f8...@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com...
> > I would think that these comments could also be directed at
> > John Tesch, another illustration of the triumph of style
> > over content. The fact that he co-hosted "Entertainment
> > Tonight" for a long time as well as being the tall WASP he
> > is gave him a popular following which we "keyboard
> > cognoscenti" are admittedly disdainful of.
> >
> > Mark Mandell
> >
> >
> > * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
> related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is
> Beautiful
>
>
>
Paul F. Wilson
"For every hundred people in the world, there's ninety doing the work, nine
doing well, and one lucky bastard who's the artist." (Tom Stoppard,
TRAVESTIES)
"Ninety percent of everything is crap." (Sturgeon's Law)
Doc
James Scott Yassick
this, I don't think that it has anything to do with jealousy over finances.
Metheny is doing very well in the money department, as anyone who has attended one
of his big production concerts will attest.
I also disagree that Grover could have played circles around Metheny. But I think
it would be more appropriate to say that both can/could play circles around Kenny
G.
Joe Moore
credibility of the text.
The text was posted in the Pat Metheny newsgroup. (alt.music.pat-metheny)
However, I agree with what most of it said. Especially about Kenny G.
playing out of tune.
Michael Hyman <mi...@op.net> wrote in message
news:3974f5d5...@nntp.adelphia.net...
> On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:36:59 -0500, "Joe Moore"
> <jv2080...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I found this:
> >From the Q&A section of Metheny's web site:
>
> Where is this text from? (URL please.)
>
> thanx,
> - Mike
>
Jon Parker
| Re: Metheny's musicality: I saw him in L.A. in '78 and he was, sad to say,
| awful. I got the impression he was being paid by the note and he was deep
in
| debt. Today he is one of our finest improvisors. I believe the level of
talent
| he works with attests to his growth.
I have some of his earlier recordings, and would have to agree about the
development of his playing. Musical growth in a group situation depends
greatly on the talent and ability of the other players in the group. Lyle
Mays has gotten better since then too. When I play with mediocre players, I
can generally only play up to a certain level that isn't anywhere near my
ability, and sometimes I resort to playing "too many notes" to make up for
it. If I play with people that are far superior to me, I find that I play
well above my level, and can say a whole lot more with fewer notes. I've
even had what I considered a "bad" solo get complimented by everyone in the
band when I was playing with great players, probably because I said
something with the fewest notes that had the greatest impact.
Also, Metheny has been playing with certain people for a very long time.
They know his style as well as he does, and in this situation, even bad
players can sound good because the band knows how to back the soloist up.
You add that with the combination of great players, playing with people that
they've been playing with for decades, and you've got a virtually unstopable
combination.
--
Jon Parker (who is still thinking about V-Pro plates)
howa...@my-deja.com
I, too, think that Pat Metheny's comments about Kenny G maybe a little
harsh. However, I don't think that it is out of jealousy - He has got
more Grammy Awards than Gorelick has; His albums (whether with PMG or
other artists) do sell around the world according to IFPI figures. And,
Metheny is always touring, performing in major Jazz festivals around the
world with awesome "setup" on the stages.
Anyway, I am a big fan of Pat Metheny. But, I don't have a problem with
Gorelick's music either. Put it this way... Why can't we see Kenny G as
an Adult Contemporary instrumentalist if we have to label him in some
other way? I mean, he can fool around in elevators, Starbucks, malls and
"yuppie" restaurants in the style of so-called "Smooth"!
My friends, who are not interested in Jazz, may oddly love to label
Kenny G and/or Yanni "the Jazz musicians" - That's what I have a problem
with! They simply don't care about any kind of music other than
Mainstream Pop, Rock or Rap. I guess it is also one of the reasons
driving Metheny that angry (besides overdubbing pass-away Jazz legend's
work).
Howard