experimenting with 12 inch frame drum... and brushes
poachedeggs
guitar. I've bought a bass and a couple of percussion instruments to
occasionally make more elaborate arrangements - an 8 inch tambourine
(with drum skin type), and a tuneable frame drum from Tone Deaf Music
on eBay. My hope was that I could play the frame drum with drummer's
brushes and get a version of that jazz sound. Naive or not, at random
times with my haphazard recording techniques I've got something like
the sound. I bought these things to have a scaled down, non-rock
sound, and to avoid drum machines and programming.
Has anyone here done a bit of this who can offer tips? I'm no
drummer, I've got a good sense of rhythm, which has surprised me, and
enjoyed trying out stuff in the shops - shame that congas are too big
and loud for my little thin-walled home - so I am basically playing
for twenty seconds and then looping that for what I need. Sometimes
the drum sounds a bit harsh recorded, other times not so. It's
hopeless playing it with my hands, the sound is either dead or rings
out. In fact that's my other question...
What's done to stop these hand drums producing a note and to stick to
the percussion aspect? I've tried tuning it loose, tuning it tight,
but it may be a bit too tight now.
Are Moon Gels worth it, or does a Wine Gum sweet do the same job?
I even thought of trying to fix normal drum snares to it, but that
doesn't seem too straightforward.
All learning curve accelerating remarks welcome on the use of this
drum and how to record it best. Thanks.
Benj
Just one question: Why are you lost in space?
A frame drum is a frame drum. It really isn't meant to be played with
brushes. OK, I've played frame drums and tambourines and tambourims
and what-have-you with sticks and brushes or tamourim beaters (they
are sort of like "brushes" made with several thick plastic rods.
Usually it was some kind of Jam where real drums were simply not
available. Or on occasion when I wanted a certain sound. Yes you CAN
get softer brush sounds out if you know what you are doing. But why
would anyone do this? Snares added to a tambourine? Please! I think
I'm gonna barf!
Look. You can pick up a reasonable used old snare drum dirt cheap lots
of places. Even guitar shows usually have one or two for sale. Buy a
pair of decent drum brushes and go on line and find some brush
lessons. Practice. It's not hard to learn how to make this sound good.
No, you won't sound like (the late) Ed Thigpen, but you don't need to
either.
Just do it and stop with the "I'm so stupid and I can never learn
anything about some other instrument" act. I play drums, I play hand-
drums, I play bass guitar, I play guitar-guitar, I play banjo, I play
harp (harmonica), AND I also make some humble home recordings. Hey if
I want a certain sound I'll just try to GET that sound the right way
first. If my talent is not up to the task THEN I'll start to find ways
around the problem. So If I want an upright bass sound, the first
thing I'll try to get is an upright bass! I won't start with a
washtub and broom handle asking on the internet how I can make it
sound like a $3000 carved top upright!
Sorry nobody was here in the abandoned group to give you the action,
because you obviously need it pretty bad!
Gerry
> On May 4, 4:02 pm, poachedeggs <poachede...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> I do fairly simple and humble home recordings with an acoustic
>> guitar. I've bought a bass and a couple of percussion instruments to
>> occasionally make more elaborate arrangements - an 8 inch tambourine
>> (with drum skin type), and a tuneable frame drum from Tone Deaf Music
>> on eBay. My hope was that I could play the frame drum with drummer's
>> brushes and get a version of that jazz sound. Naive or not, at random
>> times with my haphazard recording techniques I've got something like
>> the sound. I bought these things to have a scaled down, non-rock
>> sound, and to avoid drum machines and programming.
Sounds like you have it all worked out.
>> Has anyone here done a bit of this who can offer tips?
I've done all this. My tip: have fun.
>> I'm no drummer, I've got a good sense of rhythm, which has surprised me, and
>> enjoyed trying out stuff in the shops - shame that congas are too big
>> and loud for my little thin-walled home - so I am basically playing
>> for twenty seconds and then looping that for what I need. Sometimes
>> the drum sounds a bit harsh recorded, other times not so. It's
>> hopeless playing it with my hands, the sound is either dead or rings
>> out. In fact that's my other question...
>>
>> What's done to stop these hand drums producing a note and to stick to
>> the percussion aspect? I've tried tuning it loose, tuning it tight,
>> but it may be a bit too tight now.
You don't want a ringing tone? There are good and bad ringing tones.
If it's a creepy dissonant ring, it means the head is funky or poorly
tuned. Tune it some more, if it won't go away it probably means the
inconsistencies across the head are just too problematic. Get a better
drum and/or head. Sometims a malformed rim will tend to make even a
good head sound bad; make it stretch awkwardly and so forth.
>> Are Moon Gels worth it, or does a Wine Gum sweet do the same job?
I don't know what either are, but I know that various pieces of tape,
placed appropriately on back side of the head can restrict unpleasant
tones. It's kind of a funky permanent cure though.
>> I even thought of trying to fix normal drum snares to it, but that
>> doesn't seem too straightforward.
Sound like a raggedy-ass "solution". Cheap snares can be head aplenty
in ye olde pawn shops and for a decent price. Take a drummer with you
to ensure you don't get a cracked shell, or bullshit heads.
>> All learning curve accelerating remarks welcome on the use of this
>> drum and how to record it best. Thanks.
>
> Just one question: Why are you lost in space?
Nice to see you still alive, Benj!
> A frame drum is a frame drum. It really isn't meant to be played with
> brushes.
A drum is "meant" to be played however someone "means" to play it. It
has no infinitely designed technique associated with it by God or
heaven.
In fact, a few years back when I was all obsessed with frame drums (and
posted here frequently on related topics), that is *exactly* what I was
doing with a really nice Remo tar (the Glen Velez model). I was also
playing it with 2 or three different types of sticks, including very
thin dowels (purportedly "bongo sticks" as they were sold) and a small
cloth mallet in a quazi surdo/timbale action: Left hand mallet, mostly
on off-beats while doing baqueteo of sorts with the bongo stick on
side. It was a great mini-kit!
> OK, I've played frame drums and tambourines and tambourims
> and what-have-you with sticks and brushes or tamourim beaters (they
> are sort of like "brushes" made with several thick plastic rods.
> Usually it was some kind of Jam where real drums were simply not
> available. Or on occasion when I wanted a certain sound. Yes you CAN
> get softer brush sounds out if you know what you are doing. But why
> would anyone do this?
Because they want to?
--
-- Gerry
Benj
> On 2010-05-29 22:03:20 -0700, Benj said:
> Nice to see you still alive, Benj!
>
> > A frame drum is a frame drum. It really isn't meant to be played with
> > brushes.
>
> A drum is "meant" to be played however someone "means" to play it. It
> has no infinitely designed technique associated with it by God or
> heaven.
>
> In fact, a few years back when I was all obsessed with frame drums (and
> posted here frequently on related topics), that is *exactly* what I was
> doing with a really nice Remo tar (the Glen Velez model). I was also
> playing it with 2 or three different types of sticks, including very
> thin dowels (purportedly "bongo sticks" as they were sold) and a small
> cloth mallet in a quazi surdo/timbale action: Left hand mallet, mostly
> on off-beats while doing baqueteo of sorts with the bongo stick on
> side. It was a great mini-kit!
>
> > Yes you CAN
> > get softer brush sounds out if you know what you are doing. But why
> > would anyone do this?
>
> Because they want to?
> --
> -- Gerry
Hey! people still around here? Yeah I was on my high horse! Still if
you want a certain sound the place one usually should start is with
the thing that usually gives that sound. But of course you are right.
Music is Art and in art there are no rules. And frame drums can be
amazing instruments that leaves much room for experimenting. In fact
now that I think about it, doesn't someone make a one sided drum
(shell and one head...sort of like a frame drum) where the snares are
on the backside of the head? You could to that to a frame drum too....
If you wanted to.
Nicole Massey
"Gerry" <add...@domain.com> wrote in message
news:2010071811261476149-address@domaincom...
of other beaters, and it comes in handy for a different sound. I remember an
acoustic jam where the tune Wabash cannonball was called, and, and using the
brush on the cloth impregnated head side I was able to get train effects
which really fit the tune.
On tone of frame drums: If you're getting odd tones there's a chance that
the drum is unevenly tuned. Place the drum flat on a stable surface, then
place a finger directly in the center of the drum. near each tuning lug tap
the drum and listen to the pitch that sounds. They should all be the same
pitch, and if they aren't you ahve some tuning to do, to paraphase Desi
Arnez.
Frame drums are extremely versatile instruments, almost as versatile as
their smaller cousins, tambourines. The number of techniques to play them is
varied, and all kinds of strikers are used -- the Irish Bodhran has four
that I know of alone. And that's just working with the head -- when teaching
someone to drum the first thing I have them do is get familiar with all the
range of sounds it can make anywhere on its body, not just the head, to help
them get a feel for the sonic possibilities it can produce.
Gerry
>> You don't want a ringing tone? There are good and bad ringing tones.
>> If it's a creepy dissonant ring, it means the head is funky or poorly
>> tuned. Tune it some more, if it won't go away it probably means the
>> inconsistencies across the head are just too problematic. Get a better
>> drum and/or head. Sometims a malformed rim will tend to make even a
>> good head sound bad; make it stretch awkwardly and so forth.
>>
>>> brushes.
>>
>> A drum is "meant" to be played however someone "means" to play it. It
>> has no infinitely designed technique associated with it by God or
>> heaven.
>>
>> In fact, a few years back when I was all obsessed with frame drums (and
>> posted here frequently on related topics), that is *exactly* what I was
>> doing with a really nice Remo tar (the Glen Velez model). I was also
>> playing it with 2 or three different types of sticks, including very
>> thin dowels (purportedly "bongo sticks" as they were sold) and a small
>> cloth mallet in a quazi surdo/timbale action: Left hand mallet, mostly
>> on off-beats while doing baqueteo of sorts with the bongo stick on
>> side. It was a great mini-kit!
> I've got a brush in the bag with my 22" Remo ocean drum, along with a
> couple of other beaters, and it comes in handy for a different sound. I
> remember an acoustic jam where the tune Wabash cannonball was called,
> and, and using the brush on the cloth impregnated head side I was able
> to get train effects which really fit the tune.
> On tone of frame drums: If you're getting odd tones there's a chance
> that the drum is unevenly tuned. Place the drum flat on a stable
> surface, then place a finger directly in the center of the drum. near
> each tuning lug tap the drum and listen to the pitch that sounds. They
> should all be the same pitch, and if they aren't you ahve some tuning
> to do, to paraphase Desi Arnez.
>
> Frame drums are extremely versatile instruments, almost as versatile as
> their smaller cousins, tambourines.
> The number of techniques to play them is varied, and all kinds of
> strikers are used -- the Irish Bodhran has four that I know of alone.
> And that's just working with the head -- when teaching someone to drum
> the first thing I have them do is get familiar with all the range of
> sounds it can make anywhere on its body, not just the head, to help
> them get a feel for the sonic possibilities it can produce.
Music is the best means we have of digesting time. -- W. H. Auden