Who were the most popular Jazz composers?
Ghazan Haider
Rachmaninov and Chopin and even Gershwin if you take that as
classical..
But lately Ive heard some pieces of jazz that have rocked my boat. It
is my obligation to myself, to properly investigate it.
I've been hearing the name of Duke Ellington for some time, and I
know Louis Armstrong, so I have been searching for their references...
from one website I get the most popular Duke performances:
"Some of Ellington's greatest works include "Rockin' in Rhythm,"
"Satin Doll," "New Orleans," "A Drum is a Women," "Take the 'A'
Train," "Happy-Go-Lucky Local," "The Mooche," and "Crescendo in Blue""
and another website:
"" Mood Indigo" (1930), "It Don't Mean a Thing (If It Ain't Got That
Swing)" (1932), "Sophisticated Lady" (1933), and "In a Sentimental
Mood" (1935)""
What strikes me is that there are no pieces common to both lists.
This means choice is quite personal in Jazz and can vary wildly.
But what Ive been searching is the most popular.. in their time and
now.. of various Jazz sub-generes. Does anyone here know of such
listings compiled anywhere? Or the numbers of albums and records sold?
I am careful not to get someones favorite list, as that can, and has,
repelled me from Jazz.
...or do I have to keep listening to the radio for good pieces?
Michael Fitzgerald
Haider) wrote:
>"Some of Ellington's greatest works include "Rockin' in Rhythm,"
>"Satin Doll," "New Orleans," "A Drum is a Women," "Take the 'A'
>Train," "Happy-Go-Lucky Local," "The Mooche," and "Crescendo in Blue""
>
> and another website:
>
>"" Mood Indigo" (1930), "It Don't Mean a Thing (If It Ain't Got That
>Swing)" (1932), "Sophisticated Lady" (1933), and "In a Sentimental
>Mood" (1935)""
>
> What strikes me is that there are no pieces common to both lists.
>This means choice is quite personal in Jazz and can vary wildly.
It also means that the criteria can vary and that perhaps ignorance is
involved - for example, Duke Ellington did not write "Take the A
Train" - that was by Billy Strayhorn. "New Orleans" is a movement from
the suite "A Drum Is A Woman."
Clearly, the second list is biased to the 1930s and all of the pieces
listed are "songs" as opposed to long suites. Ellington did get his
fame and fortune from these, but in his long career he did much more.
How about "Black, Brown, and Beige" a suite from 1943, or "The Far
East Suite" from the mid-1960s. Even his shorter pieces from the 1940s
are magnificent - "Ko-Ko," "In a Mellotone," "I Got It Bad." The list
goes on.
I think one could pretty well reject much of the first list. Not sure
why "Crescendo in Blue" would be separated from its partner,
"Diminuendo in Blue" as they were the flip sides of the 78 and were
always performed as a pair.
If you want popular - as in record sales, try the RIAA website. Of
course, just because people buy it doesn't mean it's any good.
BTW, the newsgroup for this kind of thing is rec.music.bluenote
Mike
fitz...@eclipse.net
http://www.eclipse.net/~fitzgera - Gigi Gryce book - ARSC award finalist!
Marc Sabatella
> "Some of Ellington's greatest works include "Rockin' in Rhythm,"
> "Satin Doll," "New Orleans," "A Drum is a Women," "Take the 'A'
> Train," "Happy-Go-Lucky Local," "The Mooche," and "Crescendo in Blue""
>
> and another website:
>
> "" Mood Indigo" (1930), "It Don't Mean a Thing (If It Ain't Got That
> Swing)" (1932), "Sophisticated Lady" (1933), and "In a Sentimental
> Mood" (1935)""
>
> What strikes me is that there are no pieces common to both lists.
> This means choice is quite personal in Jazz and can vary wildly.
True, although of course one might see the same thing in two lists of,
say, Mozart's "greatest" works. In this particular case, it seems there
is a clear bias at work - the first list seems to be more about great
performances, by which they seem to be including composition,
arrangements, and the recorded improvisations as part of the criteria.
The second list seems to be more about the most well-known "songs".
> But what Ive been searching is the most popular.. in their time and
> now.. of various Jazz sub-generes. Does anyone here know of such
> listings compiled anywhere? Or the numbers of albums and records sold?
> I am careful not to get someones favorite list, as that can, and has,
> repelled me from Jazz.
You might want to check on rec.music.bluenote, which is the more
appropriate newsgroup for this type of question, really
(rec.music.makers.jazz is about the *making* of the music - shop talk
among musicians). But there are certainly any number of books on jazz
history that might not give a completely unbiased account of the "most
popular" records in different genres, but are certainly more likely to
be representative than some random person's list of favorite records.
Also, note that jazz is not composer-centric the way classical music is.
The composer of a piece in jazz has much less effect on the sound of a
performance than the improvisors do, by and large. That isn't to say
there aren't great jazz composers, but separating out the composition
from the performance is a trickier matter, and I wouldn't normally start
by assuming you will respond to particular composers more than
particular improvisors.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
Check out my latest CD, "Falling Grace"
Also "A Jazz Improvisation Primer", Sounds, Scores, & More:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
xpunky bash
Tadd Dameron who wrote If You Could See Me Now, Ladybird. And Benny Golson
who wrote I Remember Clifford, Whisper Not, Along Came Betty.
Then theres Thelonious Monk who wrote some what I would call Accentric
music. I like his Nutty, Round Midnight (of course is well known. If you
want to really explore this further then you could buy a book titled
American Popular Song by Alec Wilder. It is an Oxford University Press book
/ paperback which examines the music from 1900 to 1950. A lot of the
subjects that are discussed are analysed in the written manuscript form.
You can see chapters on the well-known Tin Pan Alley composers as well as
the lesser known ( to the general public at least ) like Isham Jones, Ray
Noble. and so forth.
I am writing to respond to your inquiry, not because I know a lot ! but
because I think well, where does someone begin to look for the answer to
your very good question.. If you are unable to get that book in a
bookstore.... PLEASE try and get it from a library. It will get you
familiar with "the repertoire" in a basic way.
As for Duke Ellington, I think a great deal of recognition for the work of
Billy Strayhorn was too readily accepted by Ellington.
Anybody going to take the bait ?
Xpunky Bash
"Ghazan Haider" <gha...@ghazan.haider.name> wrote in message
news:2f57764a.0304...@posting.google.com...
Alan Young
<bop...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> As for Duke Ellington, I think a great deal of recognition for the work of
> Billy Strayhorn was too readily accepted by Ellington.
> Anybody going to take the bait ?
They had an intimate an complicated relationship. Billy was not
particularly intereseted in public recognition, which was *essential*
to Duke's success. So putting Duke's name upfront on songs that Billy
made major contributions to worked for both of them.
Why is that a problem for you?
--
Alan
http://www.hummingbear.net/~aayoung/Jazz/jazz.html
I dreamed of a life that was pure and true
I dreamed of a job only I could do...
---Monk's Dream
Pan
wrote:
>In article <3eaba...@news.iprimus.com.au>, xpunky bash
><bop...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>
>> As for Duke Ellington, I think a great deal of recognition for the work of
>> Billy Strayhorn was too readily accepted by Ellington.
>> Anybody going to take the bait ?
>
>They had an intimate an complicated relationship. Billy was not
>particularly intereseted in public recognition, which was *essential*
>to Duke's success. So putting Duke's name upfront on songs that Billy
>made major contributions to worked for both of them.
>Why is that a problem for you?
Probably because, regardless of that history, s/he'd like Strayhorn
to be given more credit.
There's been some discussion of whether the composers of Broadway show
and Tin Pan Alley songs that because jazz standards should be
considered jazz composers or not. If they are so considered, we can
start with Gershwin, Cole Porter, Vernon Duke, and there are a whole
bunch of others. If not, Bird and Diz wrote a whole bunch of tunes,
many of them based on the chord progressions of standards. I also love
Coltrane tunes like Naima and Giant Steps. But again, there are a
whole bunch of other jazz artists who wrote excellent tunes, including
some who aren't that well known. I really like Bernie's Tune, for
example, which was written by Bernie Miller, not exactly a household
name.
Michael
xpunky bash
Benny Golson
who wrote I Remember Clifford, Whisper Not, Along Came Betty.
Then theres Thelonious Monk who wrote some what I would call Accentric
music. I like his Nutty, Round Midnight (of course is well known. If you
want to really explore this further then you could buy a book titled
American Popular Song by Alec Wilder. It is an Oxford University Press book
/ paperback which examines the music from 1900 to 1950. A lot of the
subjects that are discussed are analysed in the written manuscript form.
You can see chapters on the well-known Tin Pan Alley composers as well as
the lesser known ( to the general public at least ) like Isham Jones, Ray
Noble. and so forth.
I am writing to respond to your inquiry, not because I know a lot ! but
because I think well, where does someone begin to look for the answer to
your very good question.. If you are unable to get that book in a
bookstore.... PLEASE try and get it from a library. It will get you
familiar with "the repertoire" in a basic way.
Billy Strayhorn was too readily accepted by Ellington.
Anybody going to take the bait ?
Xpunky Bash
"Michael Fitzgerald" <fitz...@eclipse.net> wrote in message
news:u9qaavsk2qr1d7sj8...@4ax.com...
joshua bayer
composition. I have always had a problem calling Solar a composition.
Michael Fitzgerald
I know what you mean, but there is no difference.
OldJazzBass
>composition.
I consider "tune" and "melody" to be synonyms.
Alan Young
<jo...@joshuabayer.com> wrote:
> Brings up a question - what is the difference (if any) between a tune and a
> composition. I have always had a problem calling Solar a composition.
"Composition" traditionally implies more elements than just a tune:
what would be called an arrangement (or at least some elements of an
arrangement, such as harmony parts, countermelody, intro, etc.).
For example, "So What", the tune, has 4 lines of melody, 2 chords-- not
much to it. But "So What" the _composition_ starts with a bass solo
melody, followed by a 2-chord answer, and so on.
Michael Fitzgerald
Yes, in certain usages they are. "Whistle a happy tune" - obviously
not anything more than a melody.
However, jazz musicians have their own variation on existing terms -
an "axe" is an instrument, whether saxophone, guitar, trumpet, piano -
whatever. The term "horns" means one thing in the orchestra and
another thing in the jazz ensemble.
When jazz musicians speak of playing "tunes," they are simply talking
about repertoire. Repertoire is made up of compositions. In any given
setlist, the various compositions may well have widely varying degrees
of intricacy (introductions, countermelodies, shout choruses,
interludes, backgrounds, etc.) which can contribute to the arrangement
of the composition, but they are still just tunes, in the language of
the jazz player. A tune/composition to a jazz player involves more
than just the single-note melody (it includes the harmonic progression
if one exists, for example).
A "book" or a "story" could be 5 pages, 50 pages, or 500 pages. A
"painting" could be a watercolor by your kid or an oil by van Gogh.
Any attempt to create a division that makes "Solar" just a tune but
something else a "composition" is artificial and subjective. Anyone
who writes music is a composer. Anything a composer writes is a
composition.
One thing that probably ought to be kept straight however, is the term
"song" - which is NOT synonymous with tune/composition.
OldJazzBass
>However, jazz musicians have their own variation on existing terms -
>When jazz musicians speak of playing "tunes," they
> in the language of
>the jazz player.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
Marc Sabatella
> > Brings up a question - what is the difference (if any) between a
tune and a
> > composition. I have always had a problem calling Solar a
composition.
>
> "Composition" traditionally implies more elements than just a tune:
> what would be called an arrangement (or at least some elements of an
> arrangement, such as harmony parts, countermelody, intro, etc.).
This is more of less the distinction I'd make too, on the occasions when
such a distinction is relevant. In most situations, though, I'll use
the terms more or less interchangeably.