THE BIG DECISION
Chris Smart
Well, I guess I'm at that point where many young (I wanna be a guitar God)
people get to. Here's some background, and then I'll ask my questions.
If you don't want to help me sort out my life, skip this one. I tend to
ramble.
I'm 19, have been messing about on guitar for about four years, but only
really getting serious about it during the last year and a half. I am
blind (only putting that in as info, no comments about superhuman hearing
please <haha>),
I have perfect pitch (I'm not kidding), got my grade 6 piano,
grade 8 in pipe organ, and grade 2 theory from our conservatory in Toronto
Ontario Canada. I mainly play bluesy rock, hard rock, and metal, but I
love listening to jazz guitarists such as Lenny Breau also as its
completely foreign to me. (i.e. its not blues-based, and I just can't
place any of those far-out chords)
I have never been in a
band, (sadly). I can listen to just about anything,
from Muddy Waters to Roger Waters to Patt Methanee, to Metallica, Rush,
Obituary, Carcass, etc. I guess I'd have to say the subject that comes
easiest for me is English, I get 80's without trying very hard. I am also
good at math (mainly algebra), but can't stand doing it. I have been a
real computer freak for several years, and have always had my heart set
on getting a degree in computer science eventually, and programming,
programming, and programming. As I get closer to the day when I'll hit
university and start on that path to eventually making some dough, I get
more depressed about the thought of more math courses, more school, more
drudgery, and so on. Just about the only thing that gets me through the
monotony is my Gibson Explorer, Marshall, etc. I get complete happiness
from playing guitar, really want to get better at it, but should it remain
a hobby? I guess my point is that I want to know, from those out there
who have made a living out of music, if it is a silly idea to put my faith
in my musical abilities and look at that as a possible career goal, even
though its risky as hell?
I know I know, I should keep my messing around on guitar a hobby, strive
towards a career in something more stable, (I hear all the jobs are in
computers these days <grin>), but its just not what I feel like doing with
my life. I have a good foundation in theory, great ears, a love for many
forms of music and a desire to keep learning, practicing and playing as
much as possible, (when I'm not writing these posts and doing homework
that is), but is that all it takes? If I were to, let's say, finish grade
13 (we have an extra year of high school up here in Ontario), and then
take a year off to totally emerse myself into my musical development as a
guitarist, practice loads, suck everything up like a sponge, etc., would
that be at all a "bad" move?
Money is a definite goal some day, regardless of what I end up doing for a
career, but when I really think of it, earning 50K a year doing boring
junk daily in some office is a lot less favorable to my mind as, let's say
earning enough to get by but having a ball doing it. To the professionals
out there, what can you tell me about starting out? What would you do
differently, what are you doing musically now, are you happy?
Am I setting myself up to just be another great guitarist who nobody's
ever heard of, but who is respected as "god" down at the local guitar
shop? I'm exagerating I know, but what can you people offer me in terms
of advice here that can help me get my priorities straight? All (I was a
starving musician) horror stories are welcome by the way. Maybe I just
need some sobering questions to ask myself.
Ok, thanks for even reading my rambling post all the way through. The
rest of you can wake up now.
Chris. (email: chris...@canrem.com)
... If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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Love is the law, love under will.
John Williams
offers, was on my way up, etc. etc. etc. Then I caved in to pressure
from my parents to get a degree and got one in electrical engineering
and information systems. So now I have been programming for 15 years
and playing on the side. It's driving me crazy!!!!!
You can waste your time in any career and not be happy. I will always
wonder what would have happend if I had stayed with it.
Now that I am older I think I can see things more clearly than when I
was 19 and I certainly have better attitudes about business, wich you
are going to have to admit, this is the music BUSINESS. I play better
now that I ever have, I have more money to buy good instruments (I know,
tone is in your fingers BUT, if you can get good tone from a bad
instrument, what can you do with a REAL GOOD one?), I have money to get
CDs made, I have the ability to write professional cover letters to
record distributors, etc. etc. I guess I haven't really lost anything
over time.
One last thing, as bad as your chances of "making it" in music are,
there are far more rich, famous musicians that there are rich, famous
programmers.
DAVE CASEY
: on getting a degree in computer science eventually, and programming,
: programming, and programming. As I get closer to the day when I'll hit
: from playing guitar, really want to get better at it, but should it remain
: a hobby? I guess my point is that I want to know, from those out there
: who have made a living out of music, if it is a silly idea to put my faith
: in my musical abilities and look at that as a possible career goal, even
: though its risky as hell?
Planning on becoming a computer scientist or mathematician or anything
for that matter, is risky as hell. And for you to ask us to help you
make your decision is even riskier. Sure, I'd like to say, forget
college , immerse yourself in your music and then go for it, if you find
that much enjoyment in it. But, if you fall flat on your face and begin
looking for scapegoats, you may start saying I never should listened to
that damned Casey. The only thing I will say is that you can't ever go
wrong going to college and getting an education, even if it is in music
or computer science. Who knows, you may meet three or four others there
that connect with you and you all form a killer rockin' band. If you
find that your music should stay just a hobby, then you'll have your
education to help you do something else.
: that is), but is that all it takes? If I were to, let's say, finish grade
: 13 (we have an extra year of high school up here in Ontario), and then
: take a year off to totally emerse myself into my musical development as a
: guitarist, practice loads, suck everything up like a sponge, etc., would
: that be at all a "bad" move?
No, it wouldn't be a "bad" move, but whose to say you can't immerse
yourself in music while furthering your education. It only takes an hour
or two of practice a day to become a "guitar god". :) Though guys like
Eddie VH and Stevie Ray and Eric Johnson didn't become great players by
running off to the beach every chance they got. They practically had to
have their guitars pried out of their hands to be forced to come down for
dinner. Don't look at college as something that may stand in your way of
becoming a pro musician. Look at it as an opportunity to progress as a
musician. And what the hell, going to a good size college will provide
you with plenty of opportunities to play out. There will be all kinds of
dances. And if you don't think computer science is going to strike your
fancy in college, do something else.
-dave
gary watts
: One last thing, as bad as your chances of "making it" in music are,
: programmers.
And I would submit that there are FAR more poor musicians than poor
programmers.
Gary Watts
RevDrFreak
wrote:
Excellent point, though I would point out that music is really more of an
art than a profession. A lot of the people I've played with through the
years considerd the ultimate success as musicians to be the ability to give
up their day jobs. Music was something they did for love, financial
success was kind of like winning the lottery.
I remember reading the article in Musician about how the Counting Crows
were touring for $200/wk apiece when Mr Jones hit number one, and were in
hock up to their ears to the record company, with little hope of ever
seeing a real payoff from the August... album. Well, at least they got
famous...
RevDrFreak
'foot soldier
Mike Curtis
I'm in somewhat the same boat. I have my own business (communication
systems), but have always kept a little something going in music, i.e.
sessions, casuals, etc. Now I am getting back into it "full scale". I
can get others to "cover" for my business while I tour, etc.
I'm much more versatile now, and have a songlist in the thousands, plus
originals and arrangements.
And I agree - when you get a little mileage under your belt (is THAT what
it is ;-), you're much better equipped to handle the business aspects of a
musical career. You're more experienced. You're much more confident,
secure, and mentally skilled. You know people better, and how to make
them happy performing (that _is_ our job, you know :-) And you know that
you are not your music, so if someone doesn't like something, you don't
run off to a corner to suck your thumb and sulk. A rejected audition is
not a personal matter - it simply means that the club owner, etc., didn't
think you would sell in his place. So you move on to the next one, while
being nice and polite. By now, you know not to burn bridges.
: One last thing, as bad as your chances of "making it" in music are,
: there are far more rich, famous musicians that there are rich, famous
: programmers.
Yup, although there _are_ rich programmers - but they don't work for
other people. There's no money in being an employee.
There's nothing like meeting your fans on the street, in a mall,
restaurant, etc., and they make such a deal out of it! There's certainly
a lot to be said in favor of a music career, even when you have kids old
enough to be touring.
My wife likes the idea of it, too - she's always wanted to travel, and
when you own a business, vacations are anything but annual.
--
Mike Curtis
wd6...@kaiwan.com
John Williams
>> And I would submit that there are FAR more poor musicians than poor
>> programmers.
>
Do you think maybe the musicians are happier though? That's a toss up.
John Williams
Curtis) writes:
>: One last thing, as bad as your chances of "making it" in music are,
>: there are far more rich, famous musicians that there are rich, famous
>: programmers.
>
>Yup, although there _are_ rich programmers - but they don't work for
>other people. There's no money in being an employee.
Of course, all of us independent programmers are real rich. We are the
idiots buying the over $3000 guitars <shit eating grin from ear to ear>.
Kevin Spangler
A: (IMHO) I faced this same dilemna, as many others in this newsgroup
obviously did. I chose to go to college for electrical engineering. I
had no particular love of this (I had no clue what "engineering" was,
actually), but it sounded like something that would help me learn to
build stereo gear and guitar amps. Oh, and my dad also said I'd be
able to get a good job if I had an engineering degree. Like I cared.
Well, I can tell you that getting the degree was hell, but has been
worth every bit of hassle. And my best grades came in the semesters
when I was playing in a working band and gigging a few nights a week
and on weekends. Music was a perfect outlet for the stress of fighting
for passing grades, and I didn't go crazy studying when I knew that
I'd soon be rockin' out on a stage in some bar or fraternity house.
I played enough sleazy dives, and got ripped off by enough club owners
with guns and/or attitudes, that I decided maybe music *wasn't* the
dream career I thought it was. And even in my small town (State College,
Pa.) I couldn't believe how many hot players there were - most of them
not even playing in a band. We went to a few other towns and it was
always the same: half the guys in the crowd were players, all looking
for that one big break. Whoever said stardom is like winning the lottery
was right on - there are a lot of people buying tickets, and there are
not a lot of million-dollar jackpots.
I got a job with a great company and I've played in a few bands here and
there. I'm playing now with a couple guys I work with. They're engineers,
reliable, honest, and very easy to work with. Playing is fun and there are
no ego problems. I have not found such good situations with musicians met
through the usual channels. Best of all, we all have enough money that we
have really nice gear, rooms in our own homes where we can rehearse or
record, and we can play whatever we like because we don't care whether or
not or music is "commercially acceptable". If you plan to make your living
as a musician, be prepared to play what the record-buying public wants,
not what *you* want to play. You only get to play what you want if you
are one of those lottery winners. :-)
So now I'm in a position where I could afford to take a year or two off
and record an album in my house, get a band together and look for a good
recording contract. But I probably won't, because my life is pretty fine
So my two cents is: I agree with the poster who said "do both". Go to school,
study something that strikes a balance between what you love and what will
make you money (remember, once you get a degree you don't have to only do
that one thing; I'm an engineer but I've worked as a technician, customer
service/support rep, salesman, product manager, researcher, etc. etc. The
engineering degree opens the door to many things besides engineering). At
the same time, pursue your music as your creative outlet and stress-reducer.
I made decent money as a college musician, and had a great time as well.
When I graduated, I had a choice between a good corporate job, or to
become a full-time musician. You'll be in good shape if you can end up
with that kind of choice.
Whatever you decide - good luck!
- ks
John Gratton
|> Q: To go to college or to seek fame and frotune in music????
|>
|> A: (IMHO) I faced this same dilemna, as many others in this newsgroup
|> obviously did. I chose to go to college for electrical engineering. I
|> had no particular love of this (I had no clue what "engineering" was,
|> actually), but it sounded like something that would help me learn to
|> build stereo gear and guitar amps. Oh, and my dad also said I'd be
|> able to get a good job if I had an engineering degree. Like I cared.
|>
|> Well, I can tell you that getting the degree was hell, but has been
|> worth every bit of hassle. And my best grades came in the semesters
|> when I was playing in a working band and gigging a few nights a week
|> and on weekends. Music was a perfect outlet for the stress of fighting
|> for passing grades, and I didn't go crazy studying when I knew that
|> I'd soon be rockin' out on a stage in some bar or fraternity house.
|>
AND you live in San Diego? Man, i wanna be you.
But seriously I agree with everything you said. I got a degree in
engineering (which actually was what I wanted to do), got a job
and have been playing in a band for 3 1/2 years.
I think too many people look at college as just more of the same
old schooling crap. It ain't like that. I think that most people
you ask will tell you that their college years were the best of
their life. I think everyone should at least try it; if you find
that you don't like it then leave. But other facets of your life
(like trying to make music) don't end just because you're in school.
One last soap box comment: don't think of college as just a path
to a better job. It's also:
- the best way to make the transition from "home" to "on your own"
- a way to expose yourself to other ideas and cultures (which
will provide more depth for your music writing)
- one hell of a party!
peace,
John G.
MikeT
>Q: To go to college or to seek fame and frotune in music????
Go for the "frotune", for sure. I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist. I guess
I owe you a straight answer for that one.
I won't tell you what to do, I won't even make a suggestion, I'll just tell
you what has happened to me.
I always wanted to play music, but I didn't think I was good enough. So
I went to college. I majored in Physics. I also learned to play guitar
and bass passably well. By the time I was a senior, I was in a band. I
played bass, sang and wrote most of the songs. We made good money for a
central Florida band that refused to play covers, a couple of hundred bucks
a night split three ways. I was depressed, though, because I never felt
good enough, and I didn't really like the direction we were headed in
musically. So I quit. I went to grad school in LA. I really thought
I'd given up on music for good, but I just kept playing that old accoustic
and writing songs, and finally decided to start playing the coffee house
circuit out here. I started to do pretty well. Pretty soon I made a few
friends who were also doing the accoustic thing. Maybe you've heard of
a guy named Beck? We put together a couple of bands. One sort of funny
rock band called Loser (yeah that's part of how the song happened, though
its idea and composition had nothing to do with me - that was all Beck),
and a funny country band called Ten Ton Lid. We played alot of shows and
even toured a little with Possum Dixon. Eventually, I had a falling out
with Beck, because I wanted to do something different with the music, among
other things. Now he's rich and famous, and I'm still trying to finish my
PhD.
Anyway, partly because of that experience, I decided to front my own band,
Harelip, as a lead guitar. We're doing pretty good now - got a deal (very
small deal) a single, and going out on tour this May (see you in Austin,
or some place on the way). The only problem was, I still wanted to play
bass, too, because I really love it. So, I asked around until I got picked
up by another band, Touch Candy. Touch Candy is doing very well - just put
out our own single on our own label, got some companies interested, going out
on tour this summer.
Oh yeah, I'm still working on that PhD, and I think I'll finish it, too, if
the music doesn't take me away first. Even if it does, I've already got the
Master's in Physics, so I can always teach at a Junior College when I decide
to quit trying to be a rock star.
So, like I said, no suggestions, no advice, but one thing is for sure: if
you love to play music, and you've got a little talent, a little
determination, and a little luck, I believe you'll end up playing, and you'll
go just as far as you want with it, no matter where you are, or what you
decide to do for a day job.
Keep on picking,
MikeT
tho...@usc.edu
Brian McGinity
Welcome to life. Don't worry if you go to college you can put it off
for four or five more years.
I can remember the having the same problem. I started programming when I
was thirteen and playing guitar when I was fourteen. When I had to make
career decisions after high school I was confused. Do I pursue
guitar--my real love or pursue programming--a fun hobby that is also a
rational career choice?
After debate, I made the decision to pursue programming as a career
and keep guitar would as a hobby. Yeah I didn't think I would be able to
get through a bunch of hard math courses; yet at the same time making a
living playing guitar seemed even more impossible. So I studied hard and
came out of college with a BS in Computer Science.
For the most part of college I played little guitar and at one point I sold
all my equipment. Around the last year something changed; I started hating
programming and begun to play guitar more and more. At that point, I
thought I made the wrong career choice and was really vexed.
I was ready to trash computers altogether.
After graduation a lot fell into place. Needing a job I decided I would
stay with programming and build a career in music at the same time. So far
this schema is working fine.
I believe that soon I will not be programming. I am moving towards a dream
of entertainment through music.
So the best advise I can give you is this:
- dream big
- plan ahead (years, decades, after your death)
- don't stop >>moving<< towards your dream until
you are ready not to dream it
Brian
PS: Someone told me that most of the great classical musicians in
Russia have three pastimes: music, chess, computers programming.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------//----
mcgi...@rhlab.com
mcginity%rh...@uunet.uu.net "To dream the impossible dream..."
uunet!rhlab!mcginity -The Sound Of Music??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GORDON WELLS
>From: mcgi...@rhlab.UUCP (Brian McGinity)
>Subject: Re: THE BIG DECISION
>Date: 6 Apr 95 20:26:25 GMT
>Chris,
> Brian
Inspiring. I, too, am headed out into the world (having gotten a BA in
Communications) and am torn between music and NOT living with my parents till
I'm 40.
Oh, and it's "The Man of la Mancha" (to dream the impossible
dream...)
g o r d o n