rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz Google Group

Bebop Guitar Workshop:Germany: one week left to sign up!

2013-05-23T13:57:45Z

Hi All:

I just wanted to let folks know that we've extended the sign up to next week for my Bebop Lines workshop in Colgne Germany, in conjunction with Sontag Guitars.

The dates are June 22 and 23. The topics will relate to my "Family of 4" substitution concepts, rhythmic development, and Altered Dom7 concepts, but not JUST that, because my job is to help folks reach their goals, so we can go wherever that leads us!

Re: Looking for a company that will scan sheet music into a PDF file

2013-05-23T13:17:12Z

On Mon, 20 May 2013 00:27:17 +0200, andy-uk . <andy.uk.j...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Jeeves is a valet, not a butler.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: [link]

Re: Guitarist gets girl...

2013-05-23T11:37:04Z

On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:16:36 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"

This happened in France; not USA, if I read correctly. And in French
women probably have a much more romantic view of the guitar than
American women. American women trend to regard the guitar as a
threat.

Re: Worst teaching ideas?

2013-05-23T08:57:26Z

I've had a number of good teachers. It's hard to think of any really bad advice I ever got.

The following wasn't an error of commission, but rather one of omission. I learned scales and arps many years ago. My teacher had me practice them all from the root, in sequence. Maybe if I'd studied longer (although I was with him quite a while), he have eventually mentioned that it's important to be equally able to begin on any note. But, he never mentioned it and, as a teenager who knew nothing about the structure of jazz, I didn't quickly figure it out.

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-23T02:33:18Z

Bb melodic minor is merely the **source scale.** Starting on any note in the scale and calling each note yield there of a mode is common, of course. For example, starting Bb mm from C is still Bb mm, but **standing on C.** We utilize scales as one source of criteria. We don't have to start on a specific note from any scale. We start on a note that suits the line we wish to play at the moment. C dorian b2 is merely Bb melodic minor "standing on C." You can begin a line on Bb, if it suits the idea of the moment. Should you wish that. Many times starting on a root of the chord to be played against can sound lame and contrived.

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-23T00:42:11Z

Someone who plays

I think the key is what SB said about from "C to C (dorian b2)."Ages ago, I once told a pianist, who was much better than I was, that I used some scale that didn't start on the root of the chord I was playing off.
He got all pissed off and said you should always think of it as starting from the root (C Dorian b2, rather than Bb Melodic Minor, even though they're the same notes).

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-22T21:41:07Z

You've sung my siren song! That's my favorite shiite right there!

Play Bb Jazz Melodic Minor over it --- the name of the mode from C is " C Dorian b2" --- I call that chord Csus 13b9, but mostly I call it divine!
I also refer to it as an "Altered sus chord" - thanks Coltrane!!!
peace out.
SB

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T21:16:46Z

Naw, we're all a bit mad "Decause" they use Mercury in the production of
all musical instruments.
It's a government conspiracy to make musicians more entertaining.
Why do you think Einstein had the crazy hair and ideas about the Universe.
Mad as a Hatter he was.
Bastardo'♪♫

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T21:14:30Z

I think the vocal puts it in Dm.
--

icarusi

Re: Guitar scale and brightness of sound

2013-05-22T20:49:55Z

I didn't read this thread but researched it a little; piqued my curiosity.

Luthier Victor Baker told me that there is a difference between shorter scale lengths in that they have less of a voice (less bright). Please see his email below.

BTW, I own VB guitars and they are really beautiful and not expensive to make one. Man, I love his guitars with a passion !! I spec'd a new laminate in deep purple: total cost including shipping and case: $2950. Seriously. What a deal.

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T20:35:46Z

Er, and I got it wrong, because I play it a P4 down from the original.

--
Tony Done

[link]

Re: Plinky upper register in most guitars ... any suggestions?

2013-05-22T20:22:24Z

Apparently, tightening the screws on the bridge plate and tightening the claw, 5 springs and screwed way down, made a difference.

Now, I don't notice that the high E string is much plinkier than anything else. I think,now, it sounds pretty thin, but less plinky. It doesn't sing out like the EXDC, but it doesn't sound like the fretboard is curling up either.

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T20:02:10Z

That reminds me, at a jazz gig last week, we got a request for "Mustang Sally"!

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T19:34:28Z

Decause he's a bit mad, like anyone else who still frequents usenet.

--
Tony Done

[link]

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T19:32:09Z

<g> Pt and I have a long history in the beginners groups on this and a
few other contentious topics.

--
Tony Done

[link]

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-22T19:07:29Z

Can't go wrong with chord tones!

But I'd treat it like a 6-note chord: C13b9sus4.
CTs are: C Db F G A Bb

If you find that the gap between Db and F is a little bit awkward, you
can fill it in with Eb or E or both.

--
Joey Goldstein
<[link]>
<[link]>

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T17:37:23Z

Op woensdag 22 mei 2013 07:13:28 UTC+2 schreef Pt het volgende:

Why do you need to know ?

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-22T17:04:51Z

Play chord tones and listen to what else I hear

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T16:08:32Z

Oops. If you think of it as D7-G7, you've now naturalized the F# to F. So
maybe it's in the key of C? ;-)

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T16:06:28Z

Pt wrote:
Uh-oh, if you had been around longer you would know that this arguably may
be the oldest and most heated debate in rock n roll music history! :-)

To me, it's a difference of one sharp one way or the other. Play the C as a
sharp or a natural depending upon what sounds best to you and let's not

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T16:00:19Z

somewhat OT but
anyone ever hear or come up with a jazzy arrangement of Freebird?
I'm not into the song but it's a common request.
I 'm pretty sure people just request it as a joke but I always thought it would be cool to
play it with advanced jazz harmony or in 7 or something.

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T15:28:31Z

Pat, you d/k the famous story about how Ed King didnt know what key it was in and he was the one playing the intro? It's pretty humorous.

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-22T14:24:41Z

Then it seems that quartal voicings (mixed with tertian voicings) shifting above the ostinato with sauce might work best. And if that works fairly well, I would suggest no scale, because the best sense of melodic and harmonic coalition will come from the tonality shifting via the voicings. This will become more apparent when we realize that any one scale will always call for adjustments, anyhow. In such cases, it's often the vertical shifting that presents the best criteria. And next it's f... criteria. Hearing brings forth Nirvana.

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-22T14:21:58Z

oops yeah, Db+. have you tried making a playalong or using BIAB or irealb to practice on it?
ps it can be played on guitar with a pinky stretch : x x 10 6 6 5 barring the Db & F w/ 2nd finger.

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-22T14:12:46Z

Call it 150 bpm for 4 bars & have a beer?

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-22T13:41:33Z

Let's not forget that anything fits over a pedal tone so if you are talking about your solo you can go as far out as you want especially with only a bass underneath you. If you are talking about comping it seems that any minor/major 7th. approach would work bearing in mind that it is common to superimpose whole tone and augmented harmonies over that particular change.As everyone is saying though it depends on the overall harmony of the tune to help you decide what sounds right at that part of the progression. Something that hasn't been mentioned is the style of the tune. It might be strange to use Coltrane in Japan as an influence if it is a swing era type tune. Getting back to the C pedal it sounds like it would give you the freedom to experiment with most of the stuff that has been presented here.

Re: hey deacon mark

2013-05-22T12:40:22Z

If it sits too high on the nut, you are probably pressing the string out
of tune when fretting, just like when you fret a string heavily and it
goes sharp.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: [link]

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T12:18:55Z

Digital sheet music I have for it is in "G".
A teaching program I have syncs it to one of their recordings note for note.
So they recorded it at least once in "G".

Bastardo'♪♫

Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T12:14:04Z

It's in D. The "c" triad acts like a D7 chord, so think of it as D7-G7 ad nauseum.

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T11:45:12Z

If you're looking for trouble
you came to the right place!

Re: Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T06:07:38Z

<sigh> D, or G or maybe even A.

I'll have bad dreams tonight.

--
Tony Done

[link]

Sweet home Alabama

2013-05-22T05:13:28Z

What key is it in?

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-22T04:28:18Z

You mean a Db+ triad.
That's what I did when I sightread it, and it sounded like shit.

Re: Thorell guitar F/S

2013-05-22T04:23:41Z

Can't seem to get your email from this post. If you'd like to email me directly, I'll send you some photos Carl. edunsavage at gmail dot com
ed

Re: Thorell guitar F/S

2013-05-22T04:21:03Z

sorry the link didn't work. I'll try emailing you some photos. Yes, it's a very special guitar. Out of my price range but these don't come up used very often.
Ed

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-21T23:57:48Z

1) If the bass is covering the C, why not just play the D+ triad comping? For soloing it might depend on context, preceding & following chords, melody etc., but Bb melodic or harmonic minor come to mind as good candidates.

Re: Acoustical roots

2013-05-21T21:21:24Z

No. We hear them because they _ARE_ there. They occur because a wave is a
displacement that changes in time, and when you add two waves, you get a new
waveform that has the property that it _also_ changes in time at new
frequencies, one of which is the difference between the frequencies. Very

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-21T20:23:26Z

I use the second grip you posted, but a much easier fingering is 1x4231.
Thanks Tony and Joey for the suggestions. I had to play this stuff on sight the only time I played it, and I didn't like the way the Bb melodic minor stuff sounded on the tune he chose ("Get Out of Town" by CP), so I said fuck it, and I used a C melodic minor, because I hear the melody to that tune over a Cm extended harmony. When I blow off a standard, I usually hear the melody/harmony of the tune in my head, and the C13b9sus4 just didn't do it for me.

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-21T19:29:02Z

The usual suspects here will be C phrygian (aka Ab major) or C mixb2b6
(aka F harm min) or an 8-note composite scale with both E's and Eb's.

--
Joey Goldstein
<[link]>
<[link]>

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-21T19:23:08Z

Voicings:
� Any voicing of Bbm(maj7), including all the drop 2, drop 3, etc.
inversions will do if the bass player is playing the C as a pedal tone.
But it will be safest to stay out of the low range of the guitar.
E.g. Things could get sub-optimal if you play any notes that are lower
than the bass player's C.

Re: Acoustical roots

2013-05-21T19:00:32Z

Absolutely wrong.

[link]

Lord Valve
Organist

Re: Acoustical roots

2013-05-21T18:48:48Z

Sum and difference tones are not real, i.e., you wouldn't find them if
you measured with scientific instruments. What's meant by "physical" in
this case is that, at least according to one theory, stuff happening in
our inner ears actually causes vibrations at sum and difference tone
frequencies, so according to this theory, we are accurately perceiving

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-21T18:26:30Z

Well, I guess we aren't going to quibble over scale lengths (maybe just scales), so I guess I can recall a line from the movie, Marathon Man and ask "Is it safe?"

Bruno is correct. I absolutely depends on context. So, without hearing and being having the allowance of being in the moment, I see myself having four ways to treat the change. Whenever you have a pedal, you have a pedal pusher sort of speak, because it lays plenty of room for tonality shifting. Plus, you've got 8 bars to figure it all out on your own before you play with the guys.

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-21T17:33:19Z

300 BPM with 8 bars of pedal points? Ixnay. I'd notice an old friend at the bar I need to catch up with until somebody calls a 120 BPM blues.

John

Re: Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-21T17:21:41Z

Hard to say without the context of the harmony

Bbm+7/C or C13w/11b9

2013-05-21T17:06:15Z

I play with a sax player who is really into re-harmonizing jazz tunes using this chord change as a pedal point to replace the original harmony.
He tells me to voice it C-Db-F-A and let the bass play the C pedal, but that's impossible to play on the guitar unless you use an inversion, Db-F-A-C, and you can even play the C in the bass.

Re: Acoustical roots

2013-05-21T16:50:35Z

Comments like these are what leads me to being confused about whether or
not difference tones (and combination tones) are real physical sounds in
the air or just a product of the inner ear.

"The specific phenomenon that Tartini discovered was physical. Sum and
difference tones are thought to be caused sometimes by the non-linearity

Re: Acoustical roots

2013-05-21T16:44:38Z

I stand corrected.
Thanks. And sorry.

--
Joey Goldstein
<[link]>
<[link]>

Re: Acoustical roots

2013-05-21T16:41:01Z

This is useful, IMHO.

[link]

-S-

Re: Acoustical roots

2013-05-21T16:37:20Z

Sorry.

I will try to read the whole thing soon. In the meantime, what I've
gathered from what little I've read of both the book and your posts
suggests that we're talking about something very much like difference
tones. These are notes we hear even though they're not there.

There is no pedal that does that. The soft pedal on a grand piano