America has no culture

[jimmybruno]

With all the BS in the media there is not one mention of possibly
greatest guitarist that ever lived , Johnny Smith. And yet they are
still talking about MIichael Jackson. I have nothing against Michael
Jackson , in fact, I like a lot of his music. The irony just floors
me!

What about some of the talentless rock bands and every guy that goes
on TV with a capo and plays three chords. It's getting worse and
worse. What about rap? It's not even music. It's rhymes with a beat
done with a computer drummer.

I'm glad I'm getting older. Rant over

[Joe Finn]

"jimmybruno" wrote in message
news:a0d5cb13-2a37-43e9...@b4g2000yql.googlegroups.com...

======================================================================

I share your dismay. I can't find anything at all on this via google news.
........joe

[Lord Valve]

Well, that's why I said it smelled fishy.

I figured if one of the greatest guitarists who ever lived
had checked out, there'd certainly be something about
it in the "specialty" media, if not the lamestream outlets.

Silly me. The top story all over the place yesterday was
that Kanye was gettin' some strange while his main
squeeze was knocked up. And folks seemed to give
a major shit about it, too.

Motherfucker probably can't tell a B-flat from a beer can...

Lord Valve
Organist

[TD]

If there was ever a chance to educate the ears of the American public, it was buried a long time ago. As long as the ears stay lame, and the rhythm stays the course, (whose sole purpose is to accommodate humping), while the so called ballads remain a formula of relentless and strategically placed sus chords that accompany sissy type, cry baby trite; it will continue to go down the pike of worse and worsedom. RIP Maestro.

[ic]

"Joe Finn" <J...@JoeFinn.net> wrote in message
news:kpdb4a$noa$1...@news.datemas.de...

> I share your dismay. I can't find anything at all on this via google news.
> ........joe

http://www.jazzguitarlife.com/rip-johnny-smith-1922-2013/

He didn't die young, just the opposite, played mostly in a less popular
style of music and went low profile in the 60s, so I'm no too surprised. If
he'd had a drug problem, died young and been black..............
--

icarusi

[jimmybruno]

Unfortunately, it is true Johnny died yesterday. I was pretty close
to him and his family

[van]

Fuck. I was driving in my car all day listening to the news, and this is the first i heard of it. Even those supposedly "cultured cocksuckers on NPR (WNYC) didn't say a word about it, but they had time to do a feature on some Nigerian guitarist who just died.
Same thing with WCBS and WINS- nothing.

[Neil Lamb]

On Thursday, June 13, 2013 6:32:58 PM UTC-4, van wrote:
> Fuck. I was driving in my car all day listening to the news, and this is the first i heard of it. Even those supposedly "cultured cocksuckers on NPR (WNYC) didn't say a word about it, but they had time to do a feature on some Nigerian guitarist who just died.
>
> Same thing with WCBS and WINS- nothing.

According to Google search his obit was posted on NPR's national website one hour ago. However that doesn't necessarily mean it was broadcast . He grew up down the road from me in Portland , Maine, and there has been nothing in the local press so far.

[hav...@earthlink.net]

Jim,

As I've told you before you need to stop holding in your feelings and
say what you're really thinking.

Harry

[faz...@rrrrtt.com]

I've always been sickened by the way people go ga-ga, or is it ca-ca?
over these kids with the capos and fuzztones.
Skreenk-skronkkkk-skrowlllll----...
I wore out JS lps decades ago, but bought the Small Groups set when it
came out. I have most of JS' recordings now; on cd's. No needles.
I've played JS's pieces for people who are totally ignorant of jazz
guitar, and seen reactions that were often gasping!! They never heard
anything like it!
I honestly think the media of the mid-1950's are responsible for
America's non-appreciation of modern jazz. I think they misjudged the
kids.
And these creeps that are so big in rocky-rolly guitar? Phooey!
Without capos, fuzztones, wah-wahs and whatever else they come up
with, these kiddies would be nothing. Wearing tight pants, knee
booties, jumping up and doing splits while playing skreek-skronks?
And JS, who practically invented modern jaaz guitar technique is
virtually unknown outside of a realtively few fans!!!!!

On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 13:03:08 -0700 (PDT), jimmybruno
<ji...@jimmybruno.com> wrote:

[Docbop]

Blame the constant budget cuts to the school why Americans since the 60's don't know jack about the Arts. When I was in school every school elementary up had a music teacher campus. Then budget cuts and music teachers became floater spending everyday of the week at a different school and high school were only one usually with a music teacher. Art classes same thing. In beginning school had loaner instruments and they disappear. Little by little music and arts we bare bones at best. Even for non-music student the music appreciation and history class diminish.

This could go on with the music industry cutting budgets and promoting the music that costs them the least and maximum margins. The art of the studio musician is gone it all computers and samples and cut and paste for days. Back in day musician made money from recordings and live, I talk to rap and other artists today and they say no money in live or recording they make their money on endorsements. Record company margin are too thin for major label to be interested in. Some things never change everyone making money but the artists and musician.

[matelo...@gmail.com]

if you cant beat 'em, join 'em
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S4OJyB4gBk

[Jazz Guy]

It is confusing! Apart from my site and jazz guitar scene I can't find any mention on the big boys' site like AAJ, Downbeat, Jazzis. Sad when one of the ground breakers of Jazz Guitar cannot get some deserved press.

Lyle Robinson
http://www.jazzguitarlife.com

[Garvin Yee]

Thanks for educating us, Jimmy.

I like these takes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-JwpEhvvKE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_mmI2kthuI

And we've all enjoyed YOUR playing as well!


--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34735015@N03/sets/72157623566520134/show/
http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/garvin-yee.html

[jimmybruno]

Glad to hear you all agree with me. I was beginning to think I was
the only one

[Bill Williams]

Nothing on the BBC news either.
Wikipedia, at least, has the date of his passing and cites Lyle's article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Smith

[unknownguitarplayer]

This doesn't change the substance of what you're saying, Jimmy, but I was in Colorado Springs yesterday and local friends of Johnny's told me that his family wanted to keep the news private until they had a chance to grieve without publicity. They were surprised that I knew about it, and that it was posted here.

[Jazz Guy]

On Friday, June 14, 2013 7:14:19 AM UTC-7, unknownguitarplayer wrote:
> This doesn't change the substance of what you're saying, Jimmy, but I was in Colorado Springs yesterday and local friends of Johnny's told me that his family wanted to keep the news private until they had a chance to grieve without publicity. They were surprised that I knew about it, and that it was posted here.

Hey unknownguitarplayer and thanks for that. I suspected as much and mentioned that in my original thread. I was reluctant at first to post the RIP post on Jazz Guitar Life, but thought that if done respectfully, the word would get out to those who really cared for Johnny, his life and his music. Thanks and take care.

Lyle Robinson
http://www.jazzguitarlife.com

[Jazz Guy]

Hi Bill and thanks for the heads up regarding my article on Wikipedia. TAke care and all the best.

Lyle Robinson
http://www.jazzguitarlife.com

[Jazz Guy]

We got your back Jimmy :) Take care and all the best.

Lyle Robinson
http://www.jazzguitarlife.com

[Garvin Yee]

On 6/14/2013 7:14 AM, unknownguitarplayer wrote:
> This doesn't change the substance of what you're saying, Jimmy, but I was in Colorado Springs yesterday and local friends of Johnny's told me that his family wanted to keep the news private until they had a chance to grieve without publicity. They were surprised that I knew about it, and that it was posted here.
>

That sounds like it pretty much explains it. Sometimes people want
some privacy, and don't want their personal affairs on the front page
news. So the media is not necessarily at fault here.

I would say America has culture, but it's an always changing one.

I like ALL music actually, and there is some Hip Hop and Rap that
I really enjoy. You can hear the influence of Blues, Gospel, Soul, and
yes, even Jazz in the newer music, albeit usually simplified.

Having said that, I'm more into J. S. Bach and Bill Evans at the
moment.

[jimmybruno]

Good choices! I love bach and Bill too

[Garvin Yee]

Excellent. Great music is timeless.

Bach's music will certainly outlast most of the pop music these
days.

Oscar Peterson highly recommended Bach, and Bill Evan's wife
Nenette said that he mainly practiced Classical music at home, and very
rarely Jazz.

So you see plenty of Jazz pianists who use fingering technique
from Classical music.

[markkl...@gmail.com]

Plenty of culture, it may suck, but it's not nothing..

[dunlop212]

> Blame the constant budget cuts to the school

The number of public school employees has roughly doubled since 1970. Needless to say, the level of benefits and compensation is way up, too. Music is dumbed down in schools because teachers are dumbed down. They have a music program. They sing popular songs in unison at brutally boring school concerts.

Fortunately, my kid is in a church choir that meets a couple of nights a week, trains him in reading music and keyboard skills, travels internationally, and has a staff headed my a guy with a doctorate from Yale. A program with those standards would last about a week in public school; the parents would riot if the teachers union didn't.

Johnny Smith is by far my favorite jazz guitarist; have pretty much all of his recordings and books. But from what I have read, he was an equally great human being.

[thomas]

On Friday, June 14, 2013 3:34:19 PM UTC-4, Garvin Yee wrote:
>
> Oscar Peterson highly recommended Bach, and Bill Evan's wife
> Nenette said that he mainly practiced Classical music at home, and very
> rarely Jazz.
>
> So you see plenty of Jazz pianists who use fingering technique
> from Classical music.

Bill Evans' fingering was unorthodox by classical standards. If you watch his hands closely, he doesn't cross his thumb under his fingers like the classical guys do. Instead he moves his whole hand over.

[ANDY D]

The saddest thing is in his NPR obituary they have a video of the Ventures playing walk dont run. No video of Johnny playing.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2013/06/14/191396165/johnny-smith-revered-guitar-player-has-died

[standrejuifquirit]

On Thursday, June 13, 2013 5:16:47 PM UTC-4, TD wrote:
> On Thursday, June 13, 2013 4:03:08 PM UTC-4, jimmybruno wrote: > With all the BS in the media there is not one mention of possibly > > greatest guitarist that ever lived , Johnny Smith. And yet they are > > still talking about MIichael Jackson. I have nothing against Michael > > Jackson , in fact, I like a lot of his music. The irony just floors > > me! > > > > What about some of the talentless rock bands and every guy that goes > > on TV with a capo and plays three chords. It's getting worse and > > worse. What about rap? It's not even music. It's rhymes with a beat > > done with a computer drummer. > > > > I'm glad I'm getting older. Rant over If there was ever a chance to educate the ears of the American public, it was buried a long time ago. As long as the ears stay lame, and the rhythm stays the course, (whose sole purpose is to accommodate humping), while the so called ballads remain a formula of relentless and strategically placed sus chords that accompany sissy type, cry baby trite; it will continue to go down the pike of worse and worsedom. RIP Maestro.

I whole-heartedly agree with all of you who bemoan the state of today's music.
But bear in mind humping is gonna be with us beyond today's musical garbage, unless you gets to be my age . . . at which time the point becomes moot. O WOE!

[Garvin Yee]

I don't doubt he modified classical technique to fit his own means.

But here's part of an interview:

"Until I was 30 I did spend a great deal of time reading repertoire,
from Bach through contemporary. I spent quite a bit of time on Bach for
the purpose of developing tone control and independence and so forth.
Bach changed my hand approach to playing the piano. I used to use a lot
of finger technique when I was younger, and I changed over to a weight
technique. actually, if you play Bach and the voices sing at all, and
sustain the way they should, you can't really play it with the wrong ap-
proach. It's going to straighten you out in a hurry if you have a
concept of what it should sound like" (Interview in Keyboard, June 1980)

Read more here:

http://www.billevans.nl/Classical.htm

[TD]

I agree, but we don't need hump music to hump. Look what happened to Humpty Dumpty. He not only had a great fall, but a not so bad winter and spring as well.

[to...@youbet.net]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 17:30:17 -0700 (PDT), ANDY D <ajd...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>The saddest thing is in his NPR obituary they have a video of the Ventures playing walk dont run. No video of Johnny playing.
>
>http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2013/06/14/191396165/johnny-smith-revered-guitar-player-has-died

Well, see, they had tuh make it so thuh youth of Tuhday kin unnerstand
it!! They know nuhthim' about that jazz stuff!!! On'y Rockin Roll!

[jimmybruno]

Tony, you got a real sick mind!!!!! LOL

[Carl]

matelo...@gmail.com wrote:
> if you cant beat 'em, join 'em
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S4OJyB4gBk
>

Very clever post! :-)

I was just thinking you should have quoted this version instead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7cwlKtbpIk It features Mark Knopfler, the
guy from whom the line in the song, "There'll be money for nothing and
chicks for free" eminated from. The album that this is on, Neck to Neck is a
collaborative effort of Atkins and Knopfler.

To Jimmy: I was glad to see this original post ("rant") of yours. I have
been saying for years that the public has been, what I call, "American
Idolized", ie. marketed to believe that music is only about the good voice
(and, at the bottom line, physical looks), and has little to do with
songwriters, musicians, and creativity.

[Tim]

On Thursday, June 13, 2013 3:03:08 PM UTC-5, jimmybruno wrote:
> With all the BS in the media there is not one mention of possibly
>
> greatest guitarist that ever lived , Johnny Smith. And yet they are
>
> still talking about MIichael Jackson. I have nothing against Michael
>
> Jackson , in fact, I like a lot of his music. The irony just floors
>
> me!
>
>
>
> What about some of the talentless rock bands and every guy that goes
>
> on TV with a capo and plays three chords. It's getting worse and
>
> worse. What about rap? It's not even music. It's rhymes with a beat
>
> done with a computer drummer.
>
>
>
> I'm glad I'm getting older. Rant over

Jimmy, you don't have to have talent to be popular. Just good promoting .

LOL!

[Jens W]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/johnny-smith-90-acclaimed-jazz-guitarist-dies-at-90/2013/06/14/0e5ff5ea-d511-11e2-b05f-3ea3f0e7bb5a_story.html

[Dom Minasi]

On Thursday, June 13, 2013 4:03:08 PM UTC-4, jimmybruno wrote:
> With all the BS in the media there is not one mention of possibly
>
> greatest guitarist that ever lived , Johnny Smith. And yet they are
>
> still talking about MIichael Jackson. I have nothing against Michael
>
> Jackson , in fact, I like a lot of his music. The irony just floors
>
> me!
>
>
>
> What about some of the talentless rock bands and every guy that goes
>
> on TV with a capo and plays three chords. It's getting worse and
>
> worse. What about rap? It's not even music. It's rhymes with a beat
>
> done with a computer drummer.
>
>
>
> I'm glad I'm getting older. Rant over

The NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/arts/music/johnny-smith-guitarist-and-songwriter-dies-at-90.html

[Jens W]

"Dom Minasi" wrote in message
news:913cfab6-03e1-4411...@googlegroups.com...

On Thursday, June 13, 2013 4:03:08 PM UTC-4, jimmybruno wrote:
>The NY Times
>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/arts/music/johnny-smith-guitarist-and-songwriter-dies-at-90.html

“He accomplished everything he ever wanted,” his daughter said. “He played
with the best musicians in the world, he went deep sea fishing in the Gulf
of Mexico, he was a great father.”

Wow.

[Garvin Yee]

Agreed, it's all about marketing.

This fella didn't have any talent at all:


https://www.google.com/search?q=de+kooning&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=HK3BUYeCH4i28wSYq4CoBQ&biw=1280&bih=895&sei=Na3BUYCmJdLG4AO0ioDYDw

[thomas]

You have to see de Koonings in person to fully appreciate them. I saw a show of his late works at the National Gallery in DC, and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen by any artist.

[van]

This may sound off the wall, but some guy on another forum brought up the rumor that Johnny Smith was of partial African-American ancestry.
Has anyone ever heard that?

[Garvin Yee]

I have found the opposite to be true: Paintings often are lit
incorrectly in person. They are like people: they have to be
photographed well, or they don't look their best.

This piece of shit sold for huge sums of money:


http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=895&tbm=isch&tbnid=aUsZvNVPIveGTM:&imgrefurl=http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/willem-de-kooning/woman-i&docid=nHhCQ5gtsp31iM&imgurl=http://uploads4.wikipaintings.org/images/willem-de-kooning/woman-i.jpg&w=853&h=1119&ei=GQzCUZHTBKjcyQHas4HQDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=118&start=0&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:166&tx=83&ty=92


Don't get me wrong: just because I'm more of a surrealist/realism
painter, doesn't mean I don't appreciate abstract art, I more certainly
do. It's just that de Kooning doesn't even have talent in the abstract
field. His work is complete shit, and only sells because people are
familiar with it, and they are taught that it is "good" art.

[TD]

It is also rumored that Roy Rogers ("King of the Cowboys" for all you youngin's) was part Cherokee Indian. If that helps any.

[Steven Bornfeld]

On 6/19/2013 2:42 PM, thomas wrote:
>
> You have to see de Koonings in person to fully appreciate them. I saw a show of his late

works at the National Gallery in DC, and it was one of the best shows
I've ever seen by any artist.

I don't know de Kooning well, but I really like what I've seen. We
spent a LOT of time discussing a few of his paintings in my art history
class way back.
I seem to remember he suffered in his last years with Alzheimer's
disease. I don't know if he was still active.
I don't know if Garvin is trying to be provocative or he's just an old
grouch. He has every right to dislike de Kooning (or anyone else he
likes), but calling him a no-talent seems wrong-headed to me--and I'll
bet de Kooning's reputation will be just as high in 100 years as it is
today.

Steve

[thomas]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 3:59:19 PM UTC-4, Garvin Yee wrote:
>
> > You have to see de Koonings in person to fully appreciate them. I saw a show of his late works at the National Gallery in DC, and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen by any artist.
>
> I have found the opposite to be true: Paintings often are lit
> incorrectly in person. They are like people: they have to be
> photographed well, or they don't look their best.

Wrong. Photos don't reveal the brush strokes and three-dimensional features of an oil painting.

Do you prefer recordings to live jazz also?

> This piece of shit sold for huge sums of money:
>
> http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=895&tbm=isch&tbnid=aUsZvNVPIveGTM:&imgrefurl=http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/willem-de-kooning/woman-i&docid=nHhCQ5gtsp31iM&imgurl=http://uploads4.wikipaintings.org/images/willem-de-kooning/woman-i.jpg&w=853&h=1119&ei=GQzCUZHTBKjcyQHas4HQDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=118&start=0&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:166&tx=83&ty=92
>

I don't like that photo much either.

[Garvin Yee]

On 6/19/2013 4:12 PM, thomas wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 3:59:19 PM UTC-4, Garvin Yee wrote:
>>
>>> You have to see de Koonings in person to fully appreciate them. I saw a show of his late works at the National Gallery in DC, and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen by any artist.
>>
>> I have found the opposite to be true: Paintings often are lit
>> incorrectly in person. They are like people: they have to be
>> photographed well, or they don't look their best.
>
> Wrong. Photos don't reveal the brush strokes and three-dimensional features of an oil painting.
>

That's true, but again, they have to be illuminated correctly, or
the effect of the painting is diminished.

> Do you prefer recordings to live jazz also?

If the sound guy or the venue or the PA sucks, yes, the album will
sound better, no doubt. Live music is very difficult to get right,
acoustically.

But there's nothing like live music, if it's done well...

>
>> This piece of shit sold for huge sums of money:
>>
>> http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=895&tbm=isch&tbnid=aUsZvNVPIveGTM:&imgrefurl=http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/willem-de-kooning/woman-i&docid=nHhCQ5gtsp31iM&imgurl=http://uploads4.wikipaintings.org/images/willem-de-kooning/woman-i.jpg&w=853&h=1119&ei=GQzCUZHTBKjcyQHas4HQDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=118&start=0&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:166&tx=83&ty=92
>>
>
> I don't like that photo much either.
>

It's a piece of garbage, and some idiot spent huge sums of money on
it, just because it's a famous piece of garbage....

It's not the quality of the work, but the notoriety of it.

[Garvin Yee]

Well, I have to be rather cool with you, Steve, as you
helped me a while back, remember? :)

But I beg to differ. Most of what I have seen of de Kooning's
has been absolute shit. My argument is that similar to the way
some modern music is pounded into the public, so that eventually
the public embraces it just because they are familiar with it
and it's well known, the public will also be brainwashed into
thinking shit is good stuff.

I don't think de Kooning will be much remembered in 100 years, but
who knows....

[iL_WeReo]

On Jun 13, 4:03 pm, jimmybruno <ji...@jimmybruno.com> wrote:
> With all the BS in the media there is not one mention of possibly
> greatest guitarist that ever lived , Johnny Smith.  And yet they are
> still talking about MIichael Jackson.  I have nothing against Michael
> Jackson , in fact,  I like a lot of his music.  The irony just floors
> me!
>
> What about some of the talentless rock bands and every guy that goes
> on TV with a capo and plays three chords.  It's getting worse and
> worse.  What about rap?  It's not even music.  It's rhymes with a beat
> done with a computer drummer.
>
> I'm glad I'm getting older.  Rant over

The only culture is Nuclear Warrior, the Lifshine and the California
Jam Wereo.

It's now a Wereo world.

[iL_WeReo]

On Jun 13, 5:11 pm, Lord Valve <detri...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Joe Finn wrote:
> > "jimmybruno"  wrote in message
> >news:a0d5cb13-2a37-43e9...@b4g2000yql.googlegroups.com...

>
> > With all the BS in the media there is not one mention of possibly
> > greatest guitarist that ever lived , Johnny Smith.  And yet they are
> > still talking about MIichael Jackson.  I have nothing against Michael
> > Jackson , in fact,  I like a lot of his music.  The irony just floors
> > me!
>
> > What about some of the talentless rock bands and every guy that goes
> > on TV with a capo and plays three chords.  It's getting worse and
> > worse.  What about rap?  It's not even music.  It's rhymes with a beat
> > done with a computer drummer.
>
> > I'm glad I'm getting older.  Rant over
>

> > ======================================================================
>
> > I share your dismay. I can't find anything at all on this via google news.
> > ........joe
>
> Well, that's why I said it smelled fishy.
>
> I figured if one of the greatest guitarists who ever lived
> had checked out, there'd certainly be something about
> it in the "specialty" media, if not the lamestream outlets.
>
> Silly me.  The top story all over the place yesterday was
> that Kanye was gettin' some strange while his main
> squeeze was knocked up.  And folks seemed to give
> a major shit about it, too.
>
> Motherfucker probably can't tell a B-flat from a beer can...
>
> Lord Valve
> Organist

You don't know what you're talking about either. Never did; never will.

[RS]

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:31:06 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> This piece of shit sold for huge sums of money:
>
> http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=895&tbm=isch&tbnid=aUsZvNVPIveGTM:&imgrefurl=http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/willem-de-kooning/woman-i&docid=nHhCQ5gtsp31iM&imgurl=http://uploads4.wikipaintings.org/images/willem-de-kooning/woman-i.jpg&w=853&h=1119&ei=GQzCUZHTBKjcyQHas4HQDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=118&start=0&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:166&tx=83&ty=92
>

> It's a piece of garbage, and some idiot spent huge sums of money on
>it, just because it's a famous piece of garbage....
>
> It's not the quality of the work, but the notoriety of it.

I just ran into a woman who said almost exactly the same thing about
Van Gogh. "He painted that woman's skin green" "overrated garbage"
"not art", etc. etc.

[Garvin Yee]

I really like some of Van Gogh's work, like Starry night, and
Cafe Terrace at night.

His strength is his absolute uniqueness. When you see his work
in person, you recognize his thick brushstroke immediately.

Some of his work isn't that good, but the point is that there
are many artists who have equally interesting and unique work, that
nobody knows because they have not been marketed correctly. If it
not were for his brother's wife, Van Gogh might have been pretty
much unknown.

[RS]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 15:28:48 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On 6/22/2013 12:19 PM, RS wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:31:06 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This piece of shit sold for huge sums of money:
>>>
>>> http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=895&tbm=isch&tbnid=aUsZvNVPIveGTM:&imgrefurl=http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/willem-de-kooning/woman-i&docid=nHhCQ5gtsp31iM&imgurl=http://uploads4.wikipaintings.org/images/willem-de-kooning/woman-i.jpg&w=853&h=1119&ei=GQzCUZHTBKjcyQHas4HQDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=118&start=0&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:166&tx=83&ty=92
>>>
>>
>>> It's a piece of garbage, and some idiot spent huge sums of money on
>>> it, just because it's a famous piece of garbage....
>>>
>>> It's not the quality of the work, but the notoriety of it.
>>
>> I just ran into a woman who said almost exactly the same thing about
>> Van Gogh. "He painted that woman's skin green" "overrated garbage"
>> "not art", etc. etc.
>>
>
> I really like some of Van Gogh's work, like Starry night, and
>Cafe Terrace at night.
>

> Some of his work isn't that good, but the point is that there
>are many artists who have equally interesting and unique work, that
>nobody knows because they have not been marketed correctly. If it
>not were for his brother's wife, Van Gogh might have been pretty
>much unknown.

Thank god that marketing was not the first thing on Van Gogh's mind.
Which of his paintings are "not that good."

[TD]

Interesting, how the jazz guitar NG has rather nonchalantly segued into the art critic's forum.

[edisoned]

You're not alone Jimmy.
ED

[Garvin Yee]

Well, he might have been happier if he had sold more of
his work while he was living!

I don't particularly like this one:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Van_Gogh_The_Olive_Trees..jpg

But I love the colors in this one:


http://chronoswatchmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Van-Gogh-Field-with-Flowers.jpg

[RS]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 16:55:33 -0700 (PDT), TD <tonyde...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, June 22, 2013 7:37:49 PM UTC-4, RS wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 15:28:48 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>

[re Willem de Kooning]

>>> This piece of shit sold for huge sums of money:
>>> http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=895&tbm=isch&tbnid=aUsZvNVPIveGTM:&imgrefurl=http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/willem-de-kooning/woman-i&docid=nHhCQ5gtsp31iM&imgurl=http://uploads4.wikipaintings.org/images/willem-de-kooning/woman-i.jpg&w=853&h=1119&ei=GQzCUZHTBKjcyQHas4HQDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=118&start=0&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:166&tx=83&ty=92
>>> It's a piece of garbage, and some idiot spent huge sums of money on
>>> it, just because it's a famous piece of garbage....

>> >> I just ran into a woman who said almost exactly the same thing about
>> >> Van Gogh. "He painted that woman's skin green" "overrated garbage"
>> >> "not art", etc. etc.

>> > I really like some of Van Gogh's work, like Starry night, and
>> >Cafe Terrace at night.
>> > Some of his work isn't that good,
>>

>> >nobody knows because they have not been marketed correctly.

>> Thank god that marketing was not the first thing on Van Gogh's mind.
>>
>> Which of his paintings are "not that good."
>
>Interesting, how the jazz guitar NG has rather nonchalantly segued into the art critic's forum.

"Critic" is right. Seriously tough crowd at the RMMGJ Gallery tonight!

There's something to be learned from it: Jazz guys obviously have
very crappy agents. So did Van Gogh. And da Kooning's must be about
the worst, given that Garvin Yee considers his work Feeses Pieces.

[RS]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2013 21:05:09 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>

Olive Trees is a masterpiece. I'll repeat what I said to the other
person who didn't think Van Gogh was 'pretty': Art is not
photography, and it's not necessarily about being pleasing. If you
don't like or understand the concept, that's fine. But the flat
unqualified dismissal says more about the critic than the artist.

[Garvin Yee]

It's not one of his better works.

I like some of Van Gogh stuff, but what are the chances you'll like
the exact same pieces I do? Highly unlikely.

And thank God for that. What a boring world it would be
if we all liked the same stuff.....

[Garvin Yee]

De Kooning's work is good for wiping one's ass with....

[Jonathan]

On Saturday, June 22, 2013 7:55:33 PM UTC-4, TD wrote:
> Interesting, how the jazz guitar NG has rather nonchalantly segued into the art critic's forum.

I like those pictures of dogs playing poker.

[Lord Valve]

Yer fulla crap - Velvet Elvis rulez!

Lord Valve
Art Critic (for what it's worth, I agree with Yee.
And dat's a pome, and pomes iz Art. So there.)

[AKA]

Garvin, What is your general opinion of Elaine de Kooning's work. Are you familiar w/ her piece "Peter"?

[Garvin Yee]

On 6/23/2013 5:49 PM, AKA wrote:
> Elaine de Kooning

I couldn't find that particular piece, but from what I
saw, she appears about as talented as her husband was. Birds
of a feather....

[jive turkey]

if he is so bad then how did he win these awards:

On September 14, 1964, De Kooning was presented with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. In 1986, he was awarded the National Medal of Arts. In 1979, he and Eduardo Chillida received the Andrew W. Mellon Prize, which was accompanied by an exhibition at the Carnegie Institute, Pittsburgh.[13

[RS]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 04:11:46 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Well, that wasn't the point, was it. There's a difference between
saying that you don't care for something vs "it's a piece of shit!"
Aside from the obvious ineloquence, it simply sounds like you are not
familiar with the territory. I'd be interested to see if you could
list a handful of abstract expressionists that you -do- like. My guess
is that you simply don't care for the domain.

Likewise, it would be rather pointless for a Nugent fan to say "George
Benson is shit!" when what he really means is that he doesn't like
jazz, and could plug in the names of any jazz player in place of
Benson. So personally, I'd find it rather pointless to comment on a
completely alien and unfamiliar domain, which is why I said it's more
a comment on the critic in this case.

Bottom line: You've posted pictures of your artwork. Would you rather
hear coherent comments on why someone did not care for your work, or
would you find it constuctive for someone to liken it to excrement?

[RS]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 04:13:03 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> De Kooning's work is good for wiping one's ass with....

You can't think of more insightful comments, or is this your form of
trolling?

I recently attended a electrifying lecture by one of the world's
greatest living artists, Vincent Desiderio. He spoke about the value
of various artists' work -from an informed viewpoint-. This is a
person who supposedly painted a copy of the Sistine on the ceiling of
his parents' garage when he was 12. Stunning chops.

Desiderio, who can paint anything he wants, mentioned several abstract
expressionists as those who were of serious merit to the world of art.
He included Jean Michel Basquiat, and I believe, Motherwell and de
Kooning among the top tier. He dismissed several of the more
fashionable 'pretty' artists like Bouguereau as relatively
superficial. I do have a feel for what abstract expressionism is
about, but the impact of his comments was an eye-opener for me.

I've never had a chance to study with Desiderio, but I did study with
one of his students. The magnitude of knowledge was overwhelming.

Perhaps this will put things into perspective.

Here's a sample of Baquiat's work, which you will no doubt pronounce
as 'shit' or somesuch:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Untitled_acrylic_and_mixed_media_on_canvas_by_--Jean-Michel_Basquiat--%2C_1984.jpg

And here is a sample of Desiderio, who acknowledges Basquiat as a
brilliant artist:
http://www.hirshhorn.si.edu/collection/vincent-desiderio-cockaigne/#collection=vincent-desiderio-cockaigne

BTW, everyone should click on the link to the Desiderio work. It's
from another world. The books that are strewn around the floor depict
works from all eras of art, Vermeer, Rembrandt, thru Magritte--all
rendered brilliantly. I could be wrong, but I don't think he used an
actual model when he painted this.

[Garvin Yee]

I don't really care what people think about my work. They've
called it every name in the book. Doesn't bother me anymore, never
really did. I enjoy it when people say they like my work, but
since there is no accounting for taste, if they don't like it,
so what?

My problem with De Kooning is that if you are going to
do abstract work, don't even try to paint anything that closely
resembles a person. Go abstract all the way. And even when
he does that, his results look like shit.

Here's an abstraction that looks good to me:


http://uploads2.wikipaintings.org/images/richard-pousette-dart/symphony-no-1-the-transcendental-1942.jpg

I actually like some of Pollock work, especially in person,
because the guy had the unmitigated balls to call his work art.
Completely and shockingly original.

[Garvin Yee]

On 6/23/2013 8:48 PM, jive turkey wrote:

> if he is so bad then how did he win these awards:
>

Awards don't impress me. Hitler gave out awards too....

[Garvin Yee]

On 6/24/2013 12:59 AM, RS wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 04:13:03 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> De Kooning's work is good for wiping one's ass with....
>
> You can't think of more insightful comments, or is this your form of
> trolling?
>
> I recently attended a electrifying lecture by one of the world's
> greatest living artists, Vincent Desiderio. He spoke about the value
> of various artists' work -from an informed viewpoint-. This is a
> person who supposedly painted a copy of the Sistine on the ceiling of
> his parents' garage when he was 12. Stunning chops.
>
> Desiderio, who can paint anything he wants, mentioned several abstract
> expressionists as those who were of serious merit to the world of art.
> He included Jean Michel Basquiat, and I believe, Motherwell and de
> Kooning among the top tier. He dismissed several of the more
> fashionable 'pretty' artists like Bouguereau as relatively
> superficial. I do have a feel for what abstract expressionism is
> about, but the impact of his comments was an eye-opener for me.
>
> I've never had a chance to study with Desiderio, but I did study with
> one of his students. The magnitude of knowledge was overwhelming.
>
> Perhaps this will put things into perspective.
>
> Here's a sample of Baquiat's work, which you will no doubt pronounce
> as 'shit' or somesuch:
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Untitled_acrylic_and_mixed_media_on_canvas_by_--Jean-Michel_Basquiat--%2C_1984.jpg
>

Not his best work. Here's something better:


http://uploads2.wikipaintings.org/images/jean-michel-basquiat/philistines.jpg

Bouguereau was great, but Waterhouse was better:


http://seanchase.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/hylas-and-the-nymphs-waterhouse-1896.jpg

[TD]

"Nature, when she invented, manufactured, and patented her authors, contrived to make critics out of the chips that were left."
--Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Garvin Yee]

On 6/24/2013 12:26 AM, RS wrote:

This is a completely idiotic argument, because George Benson
has tons of talent, and everyone here knows it.

Are you going to tell me these people have musical talent?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjt6iD6_Zsk

[RS]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 02:11:42 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> RS wrote:
>> Bottom line: You've posted pictures of your artwork. Would you rather
>> hear coherent comments on why someone did not care for your work, or
>> would you find it constuctive for someone to liken it to excrement?
>>
>
> I don't really care what people think about my work. They've
>called it every name in the book. Doesn't bother me anymore, never
>really did. I enjoy it when people say they like my work, but
>since there is no accounting for taste, if they don't like it,
>so what?

I once posted what I thought was an encouraging and tactful critique
of your artwork I didn't say anything the least bit meanspirited, but
you didn't seem to receive it well. I got the impression that you were
rather sensitive.

> My problem with De Kooning is that if you are going to
>do abstract work, don't even try to paint anything that closely
>resembles a person. Go abstract all the way. And even when
>he does that, his results look like shit.

Key word would be 'expressionist.'

[RS]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 16:20:37 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 6/24/2013 12:26 AM, RS wrote:

>> Likewise, it would be rather pointless for a Nugent fan to say "George
>> Benson is shit!" when what he really means is that he doesn't like
>> jazz, and could plug in the names of any jazz player in place of
>> Benson. So personally, I'd find it rather pointless to comment on a
>> completely alien and unfamiliar domain, which is why I said it's more
>> a comment on the critic in this case.

> This is a completely idiotic argument, because George Benson
>has tons of talent, and everyone here knows it.

I did say "Nugent fan." Did you not get the analogy? Benson does
undeniably have talent, yet I've certainly heard people say 'he
sucks.' Does that reflect on Benson or on the person who made the
statement?

My comment was about critics who don't have an understanding of the
domain. Hell, I just heard someone pan Van Gogh, so why assume that
some with a similar mindset wouldn't pan Benson?

> Are you going to tell me these people have musical talent?:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjt6iD6_Zsk

Can't imagine how some sucky band would be relevant, so I'm not gonna
bother clicking. I guess we're done.

[Garvin Yee]

On 6/24/2013 6:40 PM, RS wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 16:20:37 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/24/2013 12:26 AM, RS wrote:
>
>>> Likewise, it would be rather pointless for a Nugent fan to say "George
>>> Benson is shit!" when what he really means is that he doesn't like
>>> jazz, and could plug in the names of any jazz player in place of
>>> Benson. So personally, I'd find it rather pointless to comment on a
>>> completely alien and unfamiliar domain, which is why I said it's more
>>> a comment on the critic in this case.
>
>> This is a completely idiotic argument, because George Benson
>> has tons of talent, and everyone here knows it.
>
> I did say "Nugent fan." Did you not get the analogy? Benson does
> undeniably have talent, yet I've certainly heard people say 'he
> sucks.' Does that reflect on Benson or on the person who made the
> statement?
>

Your concept is clear enough. There are obviously people who
hate Jazz and classical music. But you have it reversed: I would make
Realism or at least surrealism the "Classical" or "Jazz" version of
painting, and I would make three-chord punk music closer to the abstract
side of painting. Punk music requires less technical
ability and talent, as does purely abstract painting.

De Kooning had less talent than Waterhouse.

[Garvin Yee]

On 6/24/2013 6:27 PM, RS wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 02:11:42 -0700, Garvin Yee <Drsmi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> RS wrote:
>>> Bottom line: You've posted pictures of your artwork. Would you rather
>>> hear coherent comments on why someone did not care for your work, or
>>> would you find it constuctive for someone to liken it to excrement?
>>>
>>
>> I don't really care what people think about my work. They've
>> called it every name in the book. Doesn't bother me anymore, never
>> really did. I enjoy it when people say they like my work, but
>> since there is no accounting for taste, if they don't like it,
>> so what?
>
> I once posted what I thought was an encouraging and tactful critique
> of your artwork I didn't say anything the least bit meanspirited, but
> you didn't seem to receive it well. I got the impression that you were
> rather sensitive.
>

Hardly. I'm quite thick skinned after decades of posting
my work online. Again, I've had every insult in the book
thrown at my work. The concept of the "sensitive artist" is
a myth: The artists that come out are the LEAST sensitive
people. Otherwise, how could they survive criticism?

Maybe I never read your post. Link to the thread?

[Jonathan]

I'm no art expert, but in my opinion you have to judge these paintings by the emotional reaction that they elicit, and I find them to be quite terrifying and unsettling in a way that is very difficult to verbalize.
De Kooning seems to have tapped into some kind of subconscious symbolism/topology that produces a very vivid emotional response.
You can perhaps characterize his paintings as ugly, but it is a profound type of ugliness, and one that is not simply the result of poor skill.

[thomas]

I agree that the paintings Garvin linked are ugly, but I have seen some very beautiful de Koonings, in that late-works show I mentioned upstream.

[Garvin Yee]

I'd like to see some links to what you think are "some very
beautiful de Koonings."

[thomas]

I feel no need to convince you to like what I like. You found the ugly ones; maybe you can find some pretty ones too.

[Garvin Yee]

I was just curious. No ill will intended.

I've never seen a De Kooning that I liked.

I prefer Frank Frazetta:


http://images.tcj.com/2011/02/frank_frazetta_thuviamaidofmars.jpg



Awesome.

[thomas]

Frazetta is great. He speaks to teenage boys of all ages (and I mean that is a good way).

[Garvin Yee]

He speaks to everyone, not just teenagers.

Don't disparage the 2nd coming of Michelangelo. The man was a
genius.

[rharr...@comcast.net]

WOW. I've got everything the man recorded and I'm just now finding out. It is indeed a sadder time knowing that a true Giant has passed on. RIP Mr.Smith. You will be missed.

[RS]

>>> I prefer Frank Frazetta:
>>>
>>> http://images.tcj.com/2011/02/frank_frazetta_thuviamaidofmars.jpg
>>> Awesome.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

>> Frazetta is great. He speaks to teenage boys of all ages (and I mean that is a good way).
>>
>
> He speaks to everyone, not just teenagers.
>
> Don't disparage the 2nd coming of Michelangelo. The man was a
>genius.

Frazetta WTF?! Now the previous posts make sense.

John Singer Sargent, Joaquin Sorolla, Ilya Repin, Anders Zorn. Go to
some museums sometime.

[Garvin Yee]

Open your mind sometime. Just because Frazetta was a former comic
artist does not mean he wasn't a brilliant artist. His work
should be hanging up next to Da Vinci, etc.

John Singer Sargent was an absolute genius as well, but it would be
nice if people wouldn't just accept it when the art academic world
insists that people like De Kooning are geniuses, because they are
clearly NOT.

Try thinking for yourself sometime....

[TD]

It astonishes me that how much of a tangent has spiraled away from Bruno's initial post. I think that putting some one down one time in print (any some one; artist, musician, milk man..) is a clear sign of weakness. Continuing on to a second time is entering 'oldladyville.' Putting down that same some one many times becomes the Twilight Zone. For what reason to continue?

[rharr...@comcast.net]

I agree Tony. I have no idea what these las posts are about, but I thought this thread was about the great Johnny Smith. I always had a fantasy, I would drive to Colorado Springs, pull out a wad a of cash, buy a Johnny Smith, from Johnny Smith, and ask Mr. Smith, very humbly, if he would sign the back of the head stock.

Never had the bread. But damn what a guitarist!!!! One of my favorites is "This Can't Be Love". The guy has a section where he's playing double stops and triple stops at the speed of single line. When I 1st heard it as a young man and guitarist, all I could think when I heard it was WOW. His solo playing on "Shenendoah" just floored me. I'm an old man now, and have been playing for years, and heard a ton of fine guitarists during that time. I would be hard pressed to think of one that floored my any more that Johnny Smith!!

Damn..What a guitarist!!!!!

RIP Mr Smith.

[Jonathan]

That fellow is certainly not without talent, but
in my opinion that material lies more in the realm of illustration than fine art.
I think artists like N.C. Wyeth and Maxield Parrish cover that material with a lot more depth, and leave a lot more to the imagination.

[thomas]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This proves it:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/102965

[Greger Hoel]

On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 16:45:36 +0200, thomas <drthoma...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Indeed:

http://tinyurl.com/q3r5k7o

> This proves it:
>
> http://www.hulu.com/watch/102965

Can only be viewed by IPs within the USA.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[bob_h...@yahoo.com]

Jimmy, you're talking about a nation and a media that elected Barack Hussein Xbama TWICE!
What do you expect.
















On Thursday, June 13, 2013 4:03:08 PM UTC-4, jimmybruno wrote:
> With all the BS in the media there is not one mention of possibly
>
> greatest guitarist that ever lived , Johnny Smith. And yet they are
>
> still talking about MIichael Jackson. I have nothing against Michael
>
> Jackson , in fact, I like a lot of his music. The irony just floors
>
> me!
>
>
>
> What about some of the talentless rock bands and every guy that goes
>
> on TV with a capo and plays three chords. It's getting worse and
>
> worse. What about rap? It's not even music. It's rhymes with a beat
>
> done with a computer drummer.
>
>
>
> I'm glad I'm getting older. Rant over

[Gerry]

On 2013-09-26 14:22:57 +0000, bob_h...@yahoo.com said:

> Jimmy, you're talking about a nation and a media that elected Barack
> Hussein Xbama TWICE!

And George Bush Jr., twice as well.

> What do you expect.

Diversity.
--
Those who wish to sing always find a song. -- Swedish proverb

[ott...@hotmail.com]

On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 6:59:39 AM UTC-4, Jens W wrote:
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/johnny-smith-90-acclaimed-jazz-guitarist-dies-at-90/2013/06/14/0e5ff5ea-d511-11e2-b05f-3ea3f0e7bb5a_story.html

Great article, Thanks for that!
Bg