Progressions in a minor key ?
cp...@mail.nospamusa.com
keys.
Such as
I, IV, V
II,V, I
III, VI, II,V, etc. (with appropriate substitutons)
But what happens in Minor keys, or any other key for that matter !!!
Are exactly the same relationships (or significance) applicable, or do
a different set of changes come into play?
If so, what and why. Is there anything to avoid!
If so, any examples in different keys, would be appreciated.
Thanks
John T Finnigan
..............................
remove NOSPAM to reply.
Adam Gottschalk
>
> But what happens in Minor keys, or any other key for that matter !!!
>
> Are exactly the same relationships (or significance) applicable, or do
> a different set of changes come into play?
(Warning: non-expert alert)
Take ii V I
In C major that's dmin7, G7, and Cmaj7.
Bear in mind that what you're doing is this: your taking a C scale and
building 4 notes (1,3,5,7) on top of each of the chosen steps
(d,g,c,ii,V,I). Doing that with cdefgab gives you the above chords.
What about building the same chords (on the 2, the 5, and the 1) in C minor?
Well, to my limited knowledge it seems a common thing in jazz is to build
the chords on a C _harmonic_ minor scale, which has a flat 3, a flat 6, and
a major 7:
cd e(flat) fg a(flat) b
Those notes give you: dmin7b5, G7#5 (the e(flat) is heard), and well, truly,
a c min/maj as the tonic.
Considering that dmin7b5 is minor, if you had 3 6 2 5 1, you can just treat
it as 2 5 minor, 2 5 1 minor:
emin7b5 A7#5 dmin7b5 G7#5 cmin/maj7 (cmin7)
That's a common sound, at least I hear it all around (especially in my head)
and grip it easily in my hands. Pat and easy? Of course, you've got to see
what tune you're playing, how you feel, where the melody is, what others are
doing, what line you happen to have moving at a given moment, etc. You may
have a minor tune where V7b9 is the right sound, you may want to vary the
chord with each chorus, or whatever many variations, choosing different
alterations (b5/#5, b9/#9) and of course extensions (11, 13, and their
alterations). The basic thing is take a given key/scale and understand how
1,3,5,7,9,11,13 built on top of the steps in that scale will sound
(potentially a long and arduous task depending on your "gifts"...ack). Just
some basic thoughts.
Adam
Joey Goldstein
cp...@mail.NOSPAMusa.com wrote:
>
> I have follow lots of discussions with regard to progressions in major
> keys.
> Such as
> I, IV, V
> II,V, I
> III, VI, II,V, etc. (with appropriate substitutons)
>
> But what happens in Minor keys,
Similar patterns of chords can be derived from the minor scales and used
for progressions in minor keys.
> or any other key for that matter !!!
In the Western tonal system of harmony there are only major keys and
minor keys. there aren't "any others" to worry about.
> Are exactly the same relationships (or significance) applicable, or do
> a different set of changes come into play?
> If so, what and why. Is there anything to avoid!
>
> If so, any examples in different keys, would be appreciated.
Chords used for progressions in major keys are mostly derived from the
major scale built on the tonic of the key.
Chords used for progressions in minor keys are mostly derived from the
natural minor, the harmonic minor, the melodic minor and the Dorian
scales. Sometimes even the Phrygian scale can be invoked. Since there
are more scales involved in minor keys there is more variety and there
are more choices.
The chords derived from the natural minor scale are:
Im IIdim bIII IVm Vm bVI bVII
Im7 IIm7b5 bIIImaj7 IVm7 Vm7 bVImaj7 bVII7
Note: The classical method of harmonic analysis uses capital Roman
numerals for major chords and augmented chords. Also in classical
analysis there is no need use accidentals in front of the regular III,
VI or VII chords. Once the key is stated these regular chords (i.e.
derived from the natural minor scale rather than the others) can just be
referred to as III, VI and VII. Most jazz musicians find it simpler to
use all capital roman numerals and to label the roots in respect to the
interval they form with the tonic so we use bIIImaj7 rather than reg:
IIImaj7, etc.
Notice that in the chords derived from the nat min that the V chord is
minor. This does not allow for a strong V I cadence in minor keys. The
harmonic minor was invented to fix this problem. By raising the 7th
degree of the nat min scale the chord built on V becomes a major triad
or a dom7 chord.
The chords derived from the harmonic minor scale are:
Im IIdim bIII+ IVm V bVI VIIdim
Im7 IIm7b5 bIII+maj7 IVm7 V7 bVImaj7 VIIdim7
The chords derived from the melodic minor scale are:
Im IIm bIII+ IV V VIdim VIIdim
Immaj7 IIm7 bIII+maj7 IV7 V7 VIm7b5 VIIm7b5
The chords derived from the dorian scale are:
Im IIm bIII IV Vm VIdim bVII
Im7 IIm7 bIIImaj7 IV7 Vm7 VIm7b5 VIImaj7
The chords derived from the phrygian scale are:
Im bII bIII IVm Vdim bVI bVIIm
Im7 bIImaj7 bIII7 IVm7 Vm7b5 bVImaj7 bVIIm7
And these are only some of the chords that may or may not appear in a
minor key. These same chords may appear in major keys as well when
material is being borrowed from the parrallel minor.
So some of the possible I chords in minor are:
Im, Im7, Immaj7 (Im6 can also be found within the mel min and dorian scales)
So some of the possible II chords in minor are:
IIdim, IIm7b5, IIm, IIm7, bII, bIImaj7
So some of the possible III chords in minor are:
bIII, bIIImaj7, bIII+, bIII+maj7, bIII7
So some of the possible IV chords in minor are:
IVm, IVm7, IV, IV7
So some of the possible V chords in minor are:
Vm, Vm7, V, V7, Vdim, Vm7b5
So some of the possible VI chords in minor are:
bVI, bVImaj7, VIdim, Vim7b5
So some of the possible VII chords in minor are:
bVII, bVII7, VIIIdim, VIIdim7, VIIm7b5, bVIIm, bVIIm7
For the most part the _harmonic functions_ of the chords in minor and in
major are similar.
The chords built on I, III and VI usually have a tonic function.
The chords built on IV, and II usually have a sub dominant function.
The chords built on V, and VII usually have a dominant function.
Some of the common progressions from major can be grafted into minor.
But often the root motion which was so strong in the major key is
weakened in the minor key.
For example:
C major: IIIm7 VIm7 |IIm7 V7|
Em7 Am7 |Dm7 G7|
This progression gets its strength from the root motion which is going
through a cycle of perfect 5ths.
A common variation of this progression in minor would be:
C minor: bIIImaj7 bVImaj7 |IIm7b5 V7 |
Ebmaj7 Abmaj7 |Dm7b5 G7 |
Now we have one instance of root motion of a dim 5th. The overall
progression is still pretty strong though, but:
C minor: bIII+maj7 VIm7b5 |bIImaj7 V7 |
Eb+maj7 Am7b5 |Dbmaj7 G7 |
is somewhat weaker.
Actually I just started out trying to make the point that these minor
progression would be very much weaker than their major equivalents but
these both sound real good to me. <g>
--
Regards:
Joey Goldstein
Guitarist/Jazz Recording Artist/Teacher
Home Page: http://webhome.idirect.com/~joegold
Email: <joegold AT idirect DOT com>
n...@replies.co.uk
Thanks for all the info
regards
John T Finnigan