> > > > > On Apr 11, 9:12 pm, Paul Mitchell Brown <paulmitchellbr...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Apr 12, 10:20 am, Paul K <usern...@isp.net.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > Paul Mitchell Brown wrote: > > > > > > > > On Apr 12, 12:03 am, Rick Stone <rickst...@rickstone.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Maj6th wrote: > > > > > > > >> > I learned the "Jimi Hendrix chord" at about the same time I discovered > > > > > > > >> > Mickey's book, and was blown away by both. When "Up From the Skies" > > > > > > > >> > came out a year or 2 later, I thought there was a pretty good chance > > > > > > > >> > that Jimi might have spent some time with Mickey's book.
> > > > > > > >> > Do you think there is think there is a chance that Micky Baker might > > > > > > > >> > have stolen all the material from Jimmy Hendrix.
> > > > > > > >> > Maj6th
> > > > > > > >> You do realize that the Mickey Baker book came out in 1955 right? > > > > > > > >> (Mickey was 30 years old, Hendrix was just 13!). Besides, MANY jazz > > > > > > > >> players were using that chord LONG before Hendrix was born.
> > > > > > > > My tongue was firmly implanted into my cheek when referring to it as > > > > > > > > 'his chord' but I can't think off the top of my head of any examples > > > > > > > > from the '30s and '40s where a 7#9 acts as a I chord. Burrell's > > > > > > > > 'Chitlins' certainly popularised its use in jazz but that didn't come > > > > > > > > out until 1963.
> > > > > > Dizzy's 'All The Things You Are' intro is an early instance of the > > > > > > chord but its function there is once again as a dominant. > > > > > > Incidentally, some charts notate both the Db and C chords as 7#9 but > > > > > > Gillespie and Parker play a minor 7th/9th for the opening Db.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -"its function there is once again as a dominant".
> > > > > Perhaps, that is a plausible reason why b10 ( referred as such because > > > > > of the soprano note leading into the 7th of the tonic chord) became #9 > > > > > in popularity. Although, many arrangers still insist on b10th. The 7#9 > > > > > became the new I chord that need not function as V. Certain rockers > > > > > merely became bored with the "vanillaness" of what was before. You can > > > > > bet that it was the antics of the more versatile Jack Bruce who put > > > > > the lime in the coconut for I Feel Free. Clapton was the second choice > > > > > as guitarist for the group. For the better, commercially as history > > > > > documents. The Mickey Baker book was the first hip jazz guitar book, I > > > > > would say.
> > > > > -TD- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > Who was the first choice for Cream?- Hide quoted text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > Mclaughlin, is what I had heard back then.
> > > -TD
> > I can't see that. Ginger Baker didn't get on with McLaughlin, calling > > him a 'whinger' from their time together in Graham Bond's band. > > Admittedly, JM was pretty frustrated in those days doing mindless > > sessions and hustling to get a decent gig playing progressive jazz.- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> In addition, Ginger was known to fight a lot. He is the reason Jack > Bruce, himself was forced to quit Graham Bond's band. Ginger accused > him of overplaying. Jack played with John before Cream and after > Cream. I can see the possibility of JM being first choice, but I > cannot see it musically speaking (that bag) as Cream. When I saw Cream > in, I forgot, maybe 1966 at Cafe Au Go Go here in the Village. I met > all three back stage before the gig. I thought Jack was the best of > the three (as Cream) and the vortex when I heard them play on stage. > Jack had jazz roots and a load of talent.
> -TD
Johnny Mac and Dick Heckstall Smith are on Jack Bruce's Things We Like. Jack plays upright on that one. JM is only on one cut but he plays cool on it. I think he's using a Fender student model.
> > > > > > On Apr 11, 9:12 pm, Paul Mitchell Brown <paulmitchellbr...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > On Apr 12, 10:20 am, Paul K <usern...@isp.net.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Paul Mitchell Brown wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Apr 12, 12:03 am, Rick Stone <rickst...@rickstone.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> Maj6th wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > I learned the "Jimi Hendrix chord" at about the same time I discovered > > > > > > > > >> > Mickey's book, and was blown away by both. When "Up From the Skies" > > > > > > > > >> > came out a year or 2 later, I thought there was a pretty good chance > > > > > > > > >> > that Jimi might have spent some time with Mickey's book.
> > > > > > > > >> > Do you think there is think there is a chance that Micky Baker might > > > > > > > > >> > have stolen all the material from Jimmy Hendrix.
> > > > > > > > >> > Maj6th
> > > > > > > > >> You do realize that the Mickey Baker book came out in 1955 right? > > > > > > > > >> (Mickey was 30 years old, Hendrix was just 13!). Besides, MANY jazz > > > > > > > > >> players were using that chord LONG before Hendrix was born.
> > > > > > > > > My tongue was firmly implanted into my cheek when referring to it as > > > > > > > > > 'his chord' but I can't think off the top of my head of any examples > > > > > > > > > from the '30s and '40s where a 7#9 acts as a I chord. Burrell's > > > > > > > > > 'Chitlins' certainly popularised its use in jazz but that didn't come > > > > > > > > > out until 1963.
> > > > > > > Dizzy's 'All The Things You Are' intro is an early instance of the > > > > > > > chord but its function there is once again as a dominant. > > > > > > > Incidentally, some charts notate both the Db and C chords as 7#9 but > > > > > > > Gillespie and Parker play a minor 7th/9th for the opening Db.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -"its function there is once again as a dominant".
> > > > > > Perhaps, that is a plausible reason why b10 ( referred as such because > > > > > > of the soprano note leading into the 7th of the tonic chord) became #9 > > > > > > in popularity. Although, many arrangers still insist on b10th. The 7#9 > > > > > > became the new I chord that need not function as V. Certain rockers > > > > > > merely became bored with the "vanillaness" of what was before. You can > > > > > > bet that it was the antics of the more versatile Jack Bruce who put > > > > > > the lime in the coconut for I Feel Free. Clapton was the second choice > > > > > > as guitarist for the group. For the better, commercially as history > > > > > > documents. The Mickey Baker book was the first hip jazz guitar book, I > > > > > > would say.
> > > > > > -TD- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > Who was the first choice for Cream?- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > Mclaughlin, is what I had heard back then.
> > > > -TD
> > > I can't see that. Ginger Baker didn't get on with McLaughlin, calling > > > him a 'whinger' from their time together in Graham Bond's band. > > > Admittedly, JM was pretty frustrated in those days doing mindless > > > sessions and hustling to get a decent gig playing progressive jazz.- Hide quoted text -
> > > - Show quoted text -
> > In addition, Ginger was known to fight a lot. He is the reason Jack > > Bruce, himself was forced to quit Graham Bond's band. Ginger accused > > him of overplaying. Jack played with John before Cream and after > > Cream. I can see the possibility of JM being first choice, but I > > cannot see it musically speaking (that bag) as Cream. When I saw Cream > > in, I forgot, maybe 1966 at Cafe Au Go Go here in the Village. I met > > all three back stage before the gig. I thought Jack was the best of > > the three (as Cream) and the vortex when I heard them play on stage. > > Jack had jazz roots and a load of talent.
> > -TD
> Johnny Mac and Dick Heckstall Smith are on Jack Bruce's Things We > Like. Jack plays upright on that one. JM is only on one cut but he > plays cool on it. I think he's using a Fender student model.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > On Apr 11, 9:12 pm, Paul Mitchell Brown <paulmitchellbr...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Apr 12, 10:20 am, Paul K <usern...@isp.net.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Paul Mitchell Brown wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 12, 12:03 am, Rick Stone <rickst...@rickstone.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Maj6th wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > I learned the "Jimi Hendrix chord" at about the same time I discovered > > > > > > > > > >> > Mickey's book, and was blown away by both. When "Up From the Skies" > > > > > > > > > >> > came out a year or 2 later, I thought there was a pretty good chance > > > > > > > > > >> > that Jimi might have spent some time with Mickey's book.
> > > > > > > > > >> > Do you think there is think there is a chance that Micky Baker might > > > > > > > > > >> > have stolen all the material from Jimmy Hendrix.
> > > > > > > > > >> > Maj6th
> > > > > > > > > >> You do realize that the Mickey Baker book came out in 1955 right? > > > > > > > > > >> (Mickey was 30 years old, Hendrix was just 13!). Besides, MANY jazz > > > > > > > > > >> players were using that chord LONG before Hendrix was born.
> > > > > > > > > > My tongue was firmly implanted into my cheek when referring to it as > > > > > > > > > > 'his chord' but I can't think off the top of my head of any examples > > > > > > > > > > from the '30s and '40s where a 7#9 acts as a I chord. Burrell's > > > > > > > > > > 'Chitlins' certainly popularised its use in jazz but that didn't come > > > > > > > > > > out until 1963.
> > > > > > > > Dizzy's 'All The Things You Are' intro is an early instance of the > > > > > > > > chord but its function there is once again as a dominant. > > > > > > > > Incidentally, some charts notate both the Db and C chords as 7#9 but > > > > > > > > Gillespie and Parker play a minor 7th/9th for the opening Db.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -"its function there is once again as a dominant".
> > > > > > > Perhaps, that is a plausible reason why b10 ( referred as such because > > > > > > > of the soprano note leading into the 7th of the tonic chord) became #9 > > > > > > > in popularity. Although, many arrangers still insist on b10th. The 7#9 > > > > > > > became the new I chord that need not function as V. Certain rockers > > > > > > > merely became bored with the "vanillaness" of what was before. You can > > > > > > > bet that it was the antics of the more versatile Jack Bruce who put > > > > > > > the lime in the coconut for I Feel Free. Clapton was the second choice > > > > > > > as guitarist for the group. For the better, commercially as history > > > > > > > documents. The Mickey Baker book was the first hip jazz guitar book, I > > > > > > > would say.
> > > > > > > -TD- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > > Who was the first choice for Cream?- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > > > Mclaughlin, is what I had heard back then.
> > > > > -TD
> > > > I can't see that. Ginger Baker didn't get on with McLaughlin, calling > > > > him a 'whinger' from their time together in Graham Bond's band. > > > > Admittedly, JM was pretty frustrated in those days doing mindless > > > > sessions and hustling to get a decent gig playing progressive jazz.- Hide quoted text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> > > In addition, Ginger was known to fight a lot. He is the reason Jack > > > Bruce, himself was forced to quit Graham Bond's band. Ginger accused > > > him of overplaying. Jack played with John before Cream and after > > > Cream. I can see the possibility of JM being first choice, but I > > > cannot see it musically speaking (that bag) as Cream. When I saw Cream > > > in, I forgot, maybe 1966 at Cafe Au Go Go here in the Village. I met > > > all three back stage before the gig. I thought Jack was the best of > > > the three (as Cream) and the vortex when I heard them play on stage. > > > Jack had jazz roots and a load of talent.
> > > -TD
> > Johnny Mac and Dick Heckstall Smith are on Jack Bruce's Things We > > Like. Jack plays upright on that one. JM is only on one cut but he > > plays cool on it. I think he's using a Fender student model.- Hide quoted text -
On Apr 13, 12:34 pm, Gerry <somewh...@sunny.calif> wrote:
> On 2010-04-13 05:47:58 -0700, tom walls said:
> > On Apr 12, 7:33 pm, TD <tonydecap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I thought Jack was the best of > >> the three (as Cream) and the vortex when I heard them play on stage. > >> Jack had jazz roots and a load of talent.
> >> -TD
> > Maybe so, but his harp playing was mediocre at best! :-)
> As opposed to the brilliant harmonica playing of...? > -- > Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.
Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson, Carey Bell, James Cotton, Lee Oskar, Big Walter Horton, Junior Wells, Paul Butterfield, Toots Thielemans... not to mention Johnny Puleo and His Harmonica Gang seen here with Uncle Miltie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbCXeVVMF0&feature=related
> > > I thought Jack was the best of > > >> the three (as Cream) and the vortex when I heard them play on stage. > > >> Jack had jazz roots and a load of talent.
> > >> -TD
> > > Maybe so, but his harp playing was mediocre at best! :-)
> > As opposed to the brilliant harmonica playing of...? > > -- > > Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.
> Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson, Carey Bell, James Cotton, Lee > Oskar, Big Walter Horton, Junior Wells, Paul Butterfield, Toots > Thielemans... not to mention Johnny Puleo and His Harmonica Gang seen > here with Uncle Miltiehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbCXeVVMF0&feature=related
So his fourth best thing, after bass, singing and composing, is not as good as the best. He'll take it. Someone needed to play harmonica in those groups. I don't think Bruce played harmonica when he was with Mayall for a while.
På Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:33:24 +0200, skrev tom walls <tomwa...@gmail.com>:
> Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson, Carey Bell, James Cotton, Lee > Oskar, Big Walter Horton, Junior Wells, Paul Butterfield, Toots > Thielemans... not to mention Johnny Puleo and His Harmonica Gang seen > here with Uncle Miltie > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbCXeVVMF0&feature=related
På Tue, 13 Apr 2010 01:33:24 +0200, skrev TD <tonydecap...@gmail.com>:
> In addition, Ginger was known to fight a lot. He is the reason Jack > Bruce, himself was forced to quit Graham Bond's band. Ginger accused > him of overplaying. Jack played with John before Cream and after > Cream. I can see the possibility of JM being first choice, but I > cannot see it musically speaking (that bag) as Cream. When I saw Cream > in, I forgot, maybe 1966 at Cafe Au Go Go here in the Village. I met > all three back stage before the gig. I thought Jack was the best of > the three (as Cream) and the vortex when I heard them play on stage. > Jack had jazz roots and a load of talent.
I can't really rank them; they were all so, so great. But when I listen to Crossroads, I listen just as much to Jack's bass playing as I do Eric's guitar.
I have read that Rory and his Irish power trio Taste opened for Cream on one tour in the UK and/or Europe. That'd have been a treat- Rory and Clapton on the same ticket. Taste were also pretty progressive for the time (Rory played tenor sax in that band as well as guitar).
> > > > I thought Jack was the best of > > > >> the three (as Cream) and the vortex when I heard them play on stage. > > > >> Jack had jazz roots and a load of talent.
> > > >> -TD
> > > > Maybe so, but his harp playing was mediocre at best! :-)
> > > As opposed to the brilliant harmonica playing of...? > > > -- > > > Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.
> > Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson, Carey Bell, James Cotton, Lee > > Oskar, Big Walter Horton, Junior Wells, Paul Butterfield, Toots > > Thielemans... not to mention Johnny Puleo and His Harmonica Gang seen > > here with Uncle Miltiehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLbCXeVVMF0&feature=related
> So his fourth best thing, after bass, singing and composing, is not as > good as the best. He'll take it. Someone needed to play harmonica in > those groups. I don't think Bruce played harmonica when he was with > Mayall for a while.
Hey, Mayall's harp playing sucks, too! :-) But, seriously, I'm actually quite a fan of Jack Bruce's. I love his album "Harmony Row".
>>> Maybe so, but his harp playing was mediocre at best! :-)
>> As opposed to the brilliant harmonica playing of...?
> Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson, Carey Bell, James Cotton, Lee > Oskar, Big Walter Horton, Junior Wells, Paul Butterfield,
I was really thinking of rock/pop music. But I admit most of the names you mention are excellent players. I also consider diatonic and chromatic harmonica very different instruments.
> > > It seems he's had a rather interesting life, and has been in Europe > > > for quite a while.
> > > His book helped me a Lot.
> > > He also had some Radio airplay hits way back when under the name > > > Mickey and Syliva methinks, in the 60' or so.
> > > Bg
> > "Mickey and Syliva me thinks".
> > Correct.
> > -TD
> > When I discovered his books, it took me into a different direction. I > > devoured his books.
> > Maj6th
> I think that Jimmy Hendrix copped the raised ninth chord from the > Baker book. What say you? I'll be in Mission Viejo, CA next week if > anyone wants to discuss it (e-mail me).
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 16:40:19 -0700, jjtko75 wrote: > On Apr 11, 6:37 pm, Paul Mitchell Brown <paulmitchellbr...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> On Apr 12, 12:03 am, Rick Stone <rickst...@rickstone.com> wrote:
>> > > Do you think there is think there is a chance that Micky Baker >> > > might have stolen all the material from Jimmy Hendrix.
>> > > Maj6th
>> > You do realize that the Mickey Baker book came out in 1955 right? >> > (Mickey was 30 years old, Hendrix was just 13!). Besides, MANY jazz >> > players were using that chord LONG before Hendrix was born.
>> > -- >> > Rick Stone
>> My tongue was firmly implanted into my cheek when referring to it as >> 'his chord' but I can't think off the top of my head of any examples >> from the '30s and '40s where a 7#9 acts as a I chord. Burrell's >> 'Chitlins' certainly popularised its use in jazz but that didn't come >> out until 1963.
> Well, not the '30s or '40s, but "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" came out in '59. > The first chord is Eb7#9.
