This Lack of Gigs
Mark Kleinhaut
Earlier this year I decided that I would no longer take crappy gigs. I don't
mean commercial gigs- hell, I swore off those years ago, I mean real jazz
gigs, but by crappy I mean gigs that either (a) pay little money and (b)
background music where nobody is listening. Guess what...now I pretty much
have NO gigs.
I thought if I stopped doing those gigs that made me unhappy I'd feel better,
but I think I feel worse now. I do half a dozen concerts a year where it
feel real...top calibre musicians, an attentive appreciative audience and
a decent paycheck. It's just not feeling like enough to sustain me (mentally).
I can't believe I'm in a funk over not playing these stupid $50 restaurant
gigs where nobody listens, but I guess that at least I had the weekly interaction
with the other guys in the band. We basically just played for ourselves,
but it was playing afterall.
I know I have so much to be grateful for, so I don't even feel the right
to bitch about this (heh, I guess I just have).
Info and soundclips about:
"Chasing Tales":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Chasing%20Tales.html
"Amphora":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
"Secrets of Three": http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
Nnajar828
down here in Florida we have a season where pretty much everything drops off
from May until September. I usually work a duo gig through the summer, but
this year I took it off. That means doing the occasional concert and that's
all, and i'll tell you, I really feel like I know where you're coming from,
because I feel the same way. And it is exactly what you said, missing the
interactions with the other band members. When you operate a steady group, it
helps to see and play with them 2 or 3 times a week- it also really helps the
playing. Remember, Farlow couldn't play fast when he started with Norvo, but
Norvo called those tempos every night and they played every night and now you
know how fast Tal plays!
Michael Ellenberger
> Earlier this year I decided that I would no longer take crappy gigs. I don't
> mean commercial gigs- hell, I swore off those years ago, I mean real jazz
> gigs, but by crappy I mean gigs that either (a) pay little money and (b)
> background music where nobody is listening. Guess what...now I pretty much
> have NO gigs.
>
> I thought if I stopped doing those gigs that made me unhappy I'd feel better,
> but I think I feel worse now. I do half a dozen concerts a year where it
> feel real...top calibre musicians, an attentive appreciative audience and
> a decent paycheck. It's just not feeling like enough to sustain me (mentally).
>
> I can't believe I'm in a funk over not playing these stupid $50 restaurant
> gigs where nobody listens, but I guess that at least I had the weekly interaction
> with the other guys in the band. We basically just played for ourselves,
> but it was playing afterall.
>
> I know I have so much to be grateful for, so I don't even feel the right
> to bitch about this (heh, I guess I just have).
>
Sometimes you are hilarious Mark. A great straight man.
I'd say,
a) play often as possible
because it's good practice, keeps you in front of an audience and
potential customers
b) have CDs and other merchandise ready to sell at low paying gigs to
make up for low pay
c) get off on playing background music, you can try stuff you wouldn't
dare in a concert
d) try to book more concerts and festival gigs where you'll have a more
attentive audience.
Face it, it's not the money, it's the activity. If I don't play several
times a week with other people I feel awful and I'm not even playing
gigs, just getting together and rehearsing. Now I could bitch about
losing my job because they moved it offshore but I still have a roof
over my head and some guitars to play ;-)
Mike
--
Mike Ellenberger
Listen to some soundclips at
http://home.att.net/~grumpmeister/MikesJazzPage.html
http://www.soundclick.com/traveler
Mark Kleinhaut
Michael Ellenberger <grumpm...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>SNIP
>
>Sometimes you are hilarious Mark. A great straight man.
>
I wasn't kidding (snif, snif).
Steve Modica
the muppets.
Bob R
markkl...@hotmail.com wrote on 7/30/03 11:47 AM:
> I can't believe I'm in a funk over not playing these stupid $50 restaurant
> gigs where nobody listens, but I guess that at least I had the weekly
> interaction
> with the other guys in the band. We basically just played for ourselves,
> but it was playing afterall.
Players need to play. It's that simple. I've been wrestling with some of
that stuff myself. Once in a while, I get something like the Jack Grassel
concert that's totally satisfying (great audience, nice setting, etc.), but
most of the jazz gigs I do around here are pretty industrial (noisy
inattentive audience, smoky clubs, etc.). Sometimes I get tired of it, but
I'm getting pretty good at just making the most of wherever I am. Last
night, I had a duo gig with a keyboardist in an art gallery. Nobody much was
listening; they were all walking about schmoozing noisily and sipping wine.
But the guy I was playing with is a really good player and a great listener,
so we just listened to each other and kept ourselves amused. After a while,
I guess people just noticed that we were having fun, because we wound up
with a little crowd who sat across from us on a staircase and were listening
intently and applauding as though it were a concert. They sounded like about
twice as many people as they actually were! I didn't make a ton of money
from that, but in my book, that's a great gig.
For me, it's mostly about the actual making of the music, the ways in which
we engage each other when we play. That's something I just seem to need and
something I don't think I'd ever get tired of.
--
Bob Russell
http://www.bobrussellguitar.com
CD, "Watch This!", available at:
http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell
Greger Hoel
<grumpm...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Mark. A great straight man.
I dunno, he and Booby Watson looked quite 'chummy' on the pic on the
backside of A Balance of Light :P
--
Greger
______________________________________________
What's up Chuck?
To email me, replace everything after @ with softhome.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Max Leggett
they consitute the dues you pay for the good gigs. Jimmy B posted a
while back about playing a gig in Bumfuck, Alabama, where the audience
thought they were from Mars, so you're not alone.
On 30 Jul 2003 10:47:48 -0500, "Mark Kleinhaut"
Ted Vieira
if I want to work a lot playing jazz, a lot of the gigs could easily be for
people who aren't necessarily there to listen to jazz... they just want it
playing in the background.
The way I look at those gigs is that I'm grateful that I'm able to play my
guitar, playing the kind of music that I like to play, AND get paid for it.
Not a bad deal. I still got to pay my bills and being able to play guitar to
do it is pretty rewarding.
Plus, you're a great player Mark. You should be out there playing a lot,
even if it's not the greatest gig. As you're expressing, it feels like a
definite void when you're not playing, and there will always be someone in
the audience who gets and appreciates what you are doing.
Ted
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
http://TedVieira.com
Bio Info, Free Online Guitar Instruction,
Instructional Books, Articles, hear my CDs and more...
--
Soloing Over Altered Chords: 4 ways to use melodic
minor scales to solo over altered dominant chords.
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_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
Pat Smith
I suspect we all know about lack of jazz gigs. But gee wizzzz, you get
to go to Europe and play with Bobby Watson...hey wait a minute...
Anyway, some of the best moments of my life were spent in a small
restaurant in Auburn MN listening to Lenny Breau play to me, a couple of
guys that drove up from Berklee and restaurant regulars that had no clue
. I don't suppose Lenny was richly rewarded for those gigs, but they
meant the world to me.
Pete Kerezman
<snip>
Are you playing for love or for money?
You're a banker, right? So you probably don't need to play for
money. Therefore I surmise that it's for love of the music. In which
case shut up and play.
Texas Pete
Jurupari
>while back about playing a gig in Bumfuck, Alabama, where the audience
>thought they were from Mars, so you're not alone.
Maybe I am...I thought Bumfuck was in Egypt.
Clif
Mark Kleinhaut
Hi Tex, no sympathy today:))
Info and soundclips about:
"Chasing Tales":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Chasing%20Tales.html
"Amphora":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
"Secrets of Three": http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
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Rick Ross
pay..about once per month..but the crappy gigs have a lot to offer in terms
of flexibility..albeit low bread..they are close to home, early hours, easy
to sub out, etc...great opportunities to play and hang with the buddies...no
pressure
personally I like crappy gigs..but, then again, by most standards I am a
fairly crappy guitarist...and by playing these gigs I have a blast and, to
some extent, elevate the perception of the musicianship of those players
vastly superior to myself...
"Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f27e8a4$1...@127.0.0.1...
thom_j.
always busy and hopefully will make that infamous big time No BS!
Give'em Hell Ted! Or in Ted's case give'em more good jazz! :8^)'
cheers thom_j.
"Ted Vieira" <con...@tedvieira.com> wrote in message
news:BB4D57FF.1B863%con...@tedvieira.com...
paul
<markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>gigs, but by crappy I mean gigs that either (a) pay little money and (b)
>background music where nobody is listening. Guess what...now I pretty much
>have NO gigs.
>
I am younger, and possibly more optimistic, but I always feel lucky to
have a gig, even if it doesn't pay a lot and nobody is listening. try
thinking about the positive aspects of playing a gig that don't
involve making money or people listening:
- a chance to have a musical conversation with friends
- people not listening gives you the opportunity to draw them in
- a chance to focus on taking chances, something that can be hard to
do when all eyes are on you
- an opportunity to make people's lives richer even if they don't
realize you're doing it (have you ever seen the movie amelie?)
to me, playing music with other people is a really beautiful way of
passing time, and I hope I don't lose sight of that as I get older.
--paul
Pete Kerezman
>> Are you playing for love or for money?
>>
>> You're a banker, right? So you probably don't need to play for
>>money. Therefore I surmise that it's for love of the music. In which
>>case shut up and play.
>>
>Hi Tex, no sympathy today:))
Man, if I knew music like I can hear that you do I'd be in seventh
heaven. Be thankful.
best regards,
Texas Pete
Mark Kleinhaut
TP, I am thankful, really, I said that from the get go, but I want to be
in 8th heaven, then 9th, then 10th!!!! I know, I'm a greedy bastard, but
I can't help it- I'm not satisfied. I'm ok while I'm practicing, about
three hours every evening, but the rest of it is painful, literally....
I don't know the answer, but I don't think it's going back to the restuarants.
Kevin Van Sant
message <3f2827bc...@News.CIS.DFN.DE> :
>
>to me, playing music with other people is a really beautiful way of
>passing time, and I hope I don't lose sight of that as I get older.
That's the key to me Paul. I love playing music with friends... or
strangers too if everyone is in it together. Two things I have no
tolerance for are indifference on the bandstand, or bad attitudes
about the gig. If ever I play with someone who I sense is mailing it
in then I am sure to avoid playing with them in the future. Likewise,
I hate playing with people who are always griping about the gig. I
think an important decision I made when I began playing gigs was to
never accept a gig where I might slip into either of those two areas.
For the most part that just means only playing gigs where I'm playing
jazz music with solid players. I have often turned down opportunities
for rock gigs or just yesterday for instance someone called me about
accompanying him on a few gigs of what he termed "easy listening"
music. I can't see really feeling to up for that one, good money or
not, in the long run I feel I'm better off avoiding undesirable
musical situations. But I don't mind typical restaurant or background
music environments, I don't equate those scenes with undesirable
musical situations. It is extremely rare that I can't salvage a
positive musical experience out of less than ideal surrounding
circumstances. As long as you've got like-minded musicians on the
bandstand with you it can be a blast no matter where you are.
Mark, you ought to book a few routine gigs where you can at least play
whatever you want. See how you feel about it.
_________________________________________
Kevin Van Sant
jazz guitar
http://www.kevinvansant.com
to buy my CDs, listen to sound clips, and get more info.
Alternate site for recent soundclips
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/kevinvansant_music.htm
Mark Kleinhaut
Kevin Van Sant <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote:
(SNIP)
>Mark, you ought to book a few routine gigs where you can at least play
>whatever you want. See how you feel about it.
>
I just got fed up with people talking over our playing and even when I'd
focus on the few who were listening, and there were always a few, it was
just getting to hard to deal with.
And then there was the money, and its not that I need the money, I don't,
but the value placed of the music (expressed in paycheck) equates to a level
of respect. I'd go to a place with Brad Terry (the one who recorded with
Lenny Breau) playing with me and the restaurant/bar owner has $75/man (sometimes
less) and he's saying that's what he pays the college kids too. Brad's been
playing nearly 50 years and he makes the same dough as a college kid? It's
just so disrespectful for there to be no recognition of his lifetime's worth
of experience. And I've been at it 30 years, so I don't even feel I should
be competing with kids for those gigs...they need those gigs so they can
learn how to play.
Brad can come over and we play in the livingroom anytime we want. When we
do a concert we'll have a nice crowd, and that feels so great....my trio
played last week with Brad in a concert locally and we had about 200 people.
But there isn't enough of this to keep from getting depressed about it.
MBR
> meant the world to me.
The first jazz "concert" I ever saw was George Benson playing at a
small club in Milwaukee. This was pre-Breezin and there were only a
few people in the club that night. I wouldn't be surprised if George
thought it was kind of a blah gig, but for me it was one of those
moments that changed my life.
Kevin Van Sant
<markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <3f283...@127.0.0.1> :
>
>Kevin Van Sant <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote:
>(SNIP)
>>
>>Mark, you ought to book a few routine gigs where you can at least play
>>whatever you want. See how you feel about it.
>>
>That's all I was doing. Playing music I wanted to has never been the issue.
> I just got fed up with people talking over our playing and even when I'd
>focus on the few who were listening, and there were always a few, it was
>just getting to hard to deal with.
I guess one of my points was focus on the music and the other players,
and the hanging out with music friends aspect of it, not who is or
isn't listening.
>
>And then there was the money, and its not that I need the money, I don't,
>but the value placed of the music (expressed in paycheck) equates to a level
>of respect. I'd go to a place with Brad Terry (the one who recorded with
>Lenny Breau) playing with me and the restaurant/bar owner has $75/man (sometimes
>less) and he's saying that's what he pays the college kids too. Brad's been
>playing nearly 50 years and he makes the same dough as a college kid? It's
>just so disrespectful for there to be no recognition of his lifetime's worth
>of experience. And I've been at it 30 years, so I don't even feel I should
>be competing with kids for those gigs...they need those gigs so they can
>learn how to play.
I agree it's hard to not let all this stuff get to you. I guess we
each have to draw the line somewhere. I don't mind a $75 gig if that
is genuinely all the venue can afford. If it's some posh place where
dinner and drinks costs $50+ then I don't play a cheap gig there. But
at some little coffee house or modest restaurant, it's easy to see
that $200-300/night on music simply isn't available in their budget.
It's nothing personal toward me, and it's nothing disrespectful
towards Brad Terry, it's simply the economics of the situation. Is
having Brad Terry at that restaurant going to increase their till that
night more than the college kids would? You can't blame the owners'
for the general lack of public recognition and appreciation of greater
musical talents. Again, I think if you allow this stuff to get to
you it certainly will. If I feel like I'm getting shafted then it
will definitely get to me, I'll quit the gig or won't take it in the
first place if that's what's going on. but that doesn't sound like
the case there. But on the other hand, I simply enjoy playing out, I
like the stimulation and the energy from different environments. I
think it's good to get out of the house to play. An example, my organ
trio, The Orgaphonics used to rehearse weekly until last fall when the
drummer took a music teaching gig at a magnet arts school. That first
year along with new fatherhood kicked his butt so he had no time or
energy to rehearse. We would only assemble for a few gigs. This
summer he's been off and totally energized to play all the time. So
we booked a weekly gig at a wine bar near my house. It is very low
pay, but it's on an off night and it's a good sounding room and nice
environment for music. This gig is basically serving as our weekly
rehearsal but because it's still a performance setting the energy
level and focus is that much higher. After about 6 or 8 weeks of this
gig the group is just on fire now. I actually believe we are
benefitting more from a "live" rehearsal than we would from an at home
rehearsal. I guess the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is it's
all how you look at it and what you try to get out of it. Those
kinds of gigs may just not be for you, you've been at it long enough
you probably know by know. But maybe you can try to find a tolerable
situation which will get you out playing more regularly and just try
to adopt a positive attitude about it, get the most you can musically,
see what it does for you. That's all I'm suggesting.
Rick Del Savio
hired a drummer to play on a Jazz trio demo a long time ago. He was a good
player. But the whole ride up to the studio this guy whined. Not about the
bread mind you. About everything else. When the engineer was getting
levels, for his drums, he was whining about how long it took etc. I never
used that guy again. I had enough on my mind as the leader/producer of
that session. He shot himself in the foot, so to speak. RD :}
Kevin Van Sant wrote:
--
Jazz Guitarist/Educator
Check out lessons and original music @
http://www.rickdelsavio.com
Pete Kerezman
>> Man, if I knew music like I can hear that you do I'd be in seventh
>>heaven. Be thankful.
>>
>
>TP, I am thankful, really, I said that from the get go, but I want to be
>in 8th heaven, then 9th, then 10th!!!! I know, I'm a greedy bastard, but
>I can't help it- I'm not satisfied. I'm ok while I'm practicing, about
>three hours every evening, but the rest of it is painful, literally....
>
>I don't know the answer, but I don't think it's going back to the restuarants.
You're probably right about not going back to the restuarants, which
is something I view as being payed to practise, not a bad thing at my
level which is so far below yours that I cringe with embarassment in
your musical presence even though I have no shame socially.
I think that part of the answer may be in going back to school -
elementary, middle, high, all of 'em. Bring your band and show the
kiddos what's *really* up with music. Think about what serves as
examples for them these days, try not to be too appalled, and then go
show 'em what *you* got. Share the love. Gratification will not be
instant but seeds will be planted.
best regards,
Texas Pete
Richard Bornman
> Brad's been
> playing nearly 50 years and he makes the same dough as a college kid?
It's
> just so disrespectful for there to be no recognition of his lifetime's
worth
> of experience.
>
It really is depressing if you ask me. No way round the facts.
The evolution is roughly the same anywhere:
Its a young man's game mostly...The up and comers are
out hustling, and hiring their friends to join them on 2 bit gigs,
with the older experienced players sitting at home...
The words of Berlioz: ( as close as I can recall )
"Music - what a noble art and what a sad profession"
Richard Bornman
"Pete Kerezman" <pete...@aol.com> wrote:
> I think that part of the answer may be in going back to school -
> elementary, middle, high, all of 'em. Bring your band and show the
> kiddos what's *really* up with music. Think about what serves as
> examples for them these days, try not to be too appalled, and then go
> show 'em what *you* got. Share the love. Gratification will not be
> instant but seeds will be planted.
A noble idea indeed, which I support....
BUT
since I just joined Mark on his "cynicism quest", the reality is that
an attempt to bring this music to the "kids" will probably be greeted
with uncomprehending resistance and possibly active dislike...
The truth is that most people actually HATE jazz, they don't like it.
Its noisy, dissonant and sounds like 4 guys all playing unrelated things
simultaneously.
Tim Berens
<markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I can't help it- I'm not satisfied.
And that's why you play so well...you weren't satisfied when you
sucked, then you weren't satisfied when you didn't suck, then you
weren't satisfied when you started to be a little bit good, then .....
Being unsatisfied is part of every good musician's life, doncha think?
Without dissatisfaction, we'd all just sit around playing "Puff the
Magic Dragon."
Tim
http://timberens.com
A Website for Guitarists
Learn something...Have some fun
Dan Adler
> I can't help it- I'm not satisfied. I'm ok while I'm practicing, about
> three hours every evening, but the rest of it is painful, literally....
Does this physical need to practice everyday have a name? I suffer
from that too. Practicytis? Practoholic?
kevin coffey
so Karen & I can come over & hear you and the band? Starbright recital
hall is calling you . . .
Kevin Coffey
"Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3f27e8a4$1...@127.0.0.1>...
> Earlier this year I decided that I would no longer take crappy gigs. I don't
> mean commercial gigs- hell, I swore off those years ago, I mean real jazz
> gigs, but by crappy I mean gigs that either (a) pay little money and (b)
> background music where nobody is listening. Guess what...now I pretty much
> have NO gigs.
>
> I thought if I stopped doing those gigs that made me unhappy I'd feel better,
> but I think I feel worse now. I do half a dozen concerts a year where it
> feel real...top calibre musicians, an attentive appreciative audience and
> a decent paycheck. It's just not feeling like enough to sustain me (mentally).
>
> I can't believe I'm in a funk over not playing these stupid $50 restaurant
> gigs where nobody listens, but I guess that at least I had the weekly interaction
> with the other guys in the band. We basically just played for ourselves,
> but it was playing afterall.
>
> I know I have so much to be grateful for, so I don't even feel the right
> to bitch about this (heh, I guess I just have).
>
>
Tom Lippincott
>>background music where nobody is listening. Guess what...now I pretty much
>>have NO gigs.
>>
>
>I am younger, and possibly more optimistic, but I always feel lucky to
>have a gig, even if it doesn't pay a lot and nobody is listening.
I feel the same way. Being a professional musician was always one of my big
goals when I was younger, so I've always sort of felt good just about the fact
that I can pay my rent and put groceries on the table because of music. I have
talked to so many people, usually students or audience members, who started out
playing, then quit or let music take a back seat to something "practical", and
these people always seem to have a very deep sense of regret at not having
followed their dream, and seem envious of those of us who didn't "give up."
When I'm tempted to get discouraged or cynical about the "music business" such
as it is, and my place in it, I can't help but think of those people who
consider me lucky and wish they could change places with me (the poor misguided
souls! heh).
And I certainly feel entitled to feel a little discouraged and cynical right
now in particular; I just recently had a pretty humiliating experience. I had
gotten a steady Sunday-Monday solo gig (with background tracks which I know
most of you guys think is of the devil) for decent $ ($150 per night). The
staff and managers at the club had been very complimentary toward me and I'd
gotten a lot of positive feedback from the audience (not to mention decent
tips), but the vibe of the club was leaning more toward pop and rock than jazz,
so I was staying away from jazz stuff and playing more of my contemporary pop
type stuff; instrumental versions of Sting, Steely Dan, Beatles, Stevie Wonder,
ect. Anyway, last Monday the owner, who I'd kind of gotten a "red flag" vibe
from at the beginning, came in. The manager came up to me several times after
the owner called him over and told me to "pick up the pace". I was really
struggling to play my most "up" stuff but apparently it wasn't enough. Finally
the manager pulled me outside and told me they'd pay me for the rest of the
night but that I should pack up and leave, I was scaring off the bar crowd,
putting everyone to sleep, ect. One thing he did say, which was nice, was that
he's a musician himself and realizes I'm a great player, and it wasn't meant as
a slight on my ability as a guitarist. He said they were trying to change
their vibe from an upscale restaurant to a bar/beach crowd type place, and what
I do wasn't cutting it. Anyway, I guess I can see their point to some extent;
I'm guessing selling drinks to a bar full of 20 and 30 something year olds
trying to get laid is more profitable than selling dinners to couples and
families, but I can't help but feel like there's a certain amount of injustice
in the fact that I got fired from a gig where a large number of partrons so
obviously enjoyed the music. Not to mention the humiliation of being asked to
leave in the middle of the gig.
I was pretty depressed about the whole thing for about a day or so but now I'm
pretty much back to normal. You could say that I don't want to let the
pettiness get in the way of my calling in life to try to make the world a
better place with my music, or you could say that I'm so jaded and have been
beaten down so many times that nothing really suprizes me anymore. Maybe
there's some truth to both. But as long as there's breath left in my body I've
got to keep trying, if for nothing else, just for the sake of doing it.
I also have to say to Mark, and others who've mentioned doing $50 jazz gigs,
I'm a bit envious of YOU. For me, those $50 jazz gigs (where I play music I
feel passionately about with musicians I love playing with, whether people are
listening or not) are about as rare as those concerts you talk about. I
certainly don't want to sound like I'm whining, I just think it's important to
put everything in perspective.
try
>thinking about the positive aspects of playing a gig that don't
>involve making money or people listening:
for me this is a major consideration for everything, not just music. It would
be pretty easy for me to take the attitude that I haven't had much success in
my life with a music career, with relationships, ect. and that in general I
can't relate whatsoever to about 99% of all people. But this attitude would
pretty much lead me to feel like giving up entirely. The only way I've found
to even be able to survive is to stay as positive as I can and, as they say,
"count my blessings." I have it pretty good compared to most other people in
the world, when I really think about it.
>
>- a chance to have a musical conversation with friends
>- people not listening gives you the opportunity to draw them in
>- a chance to focus on taking chances, something that can be hard to
>do when all eyes are on you
>- an opportunity to make people's lives richer even if they don't
>realize you're doing it (have you ever seen the movie amelie?)
this is a very important consideration for me, maybe the most important one. I
did see that movie, and recall that I really liked it, but for the life of me I
can't remember the plot at all. But anyway, I've always been able to feel good
about playing those "ass in the face" gigs (the ones where you're sitting there
playing to a room full of people holding drinks and talking, with their best
side turned toward you), by believing that somewhere, somehow, I'm making some
difference in their lives for the better, even if it's on some subtle,
subliminal level.
>
>to me, playing music with other people is a really beautiful way of
>passing time, and I hope I don't lose sight of that as I get older.
>
>--paul
me neither! Nice post, Paul
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
8 string guitar audio samples at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/tomlippincottmusic.htm
thomas
>
> I dunno, he and Booby Watson looked quite 'chummy' on the pic on the
> backside of A Balance of Light :P
Booby Watson? Is she one of those Dutch jazz babes
whose shirt won't quite close all the way?
thomas
>
> The words of Berlioz: ( as close as I can recall )
>
> "Music - what a noble art and what a sad profession"
I'm too old too remember exactly what Berlioz's words were,
but he had a few choice things to say about chick singers
too--150 years ago, and nothing's changed.
Greger Hoel
(b)oops..
--
Greger
______________________________________________
What's up Chuck?
To email me, replace everything after @ with softhome.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greger Hoel
wrote:
>As long as you've got like-minded musicians on the
>bandstand with you it can be a blast no matter where you are.
And - indeed - if the audience should decide to sit in with whatever's
handy, like a bell for instance, it can lead to even bigger blasts :P
tomw
tomli...@aol.comnospam says...
> Anyway, last Monday the owner, who I'd kind of gotten a "red flag" vibe
> from at the beginning, came in. The manager came up to me several times after
> the owner called him over and told me to "pick up the pace". I was really
> struggling to play my most "up" stuff but apparently it wasn't enough. Finally
> the manager pulled me outside and told me they'd pay me for the rest of the
> night but that I should pack up and leave, I was scaring off the bar crowd,
> putting everyone to sleep, ect. One thing he did say, which was nice, was that
> he's a musician himself and realizes I'm a great player, and it wasn't meant as
> a slight on my ability as a guitarist. He said they were trying to change
> their vibe from an upscale restaurant to a bar/beach crowd type place, and what
> I do wasn't cutting it. Anyway, I guess I can see their point to some extent;
> I'm guessing selling drinks to a bar full of 20 and 30 something year olds
> trying to get laid is more profitable than selling dinners to couples and
> families, but I can't help but feel like there's a certain amount of injustice
> in the fact that I got fired from a gig where a large number of partrons so
> obviously enjoyed the music. Not to mention the humiliation of being asked to
> leave in the middle of the gig.
>
The manager was definitely a creep. "Pick up the pace", my ass. If he
wanted to go for a different type of music, he should have waited until
the end of the night and discussed it with you. He was probably jealous
of your ability and got off on jerking you around. Outrageous.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/
Rick Ross
"Kevin Van Sant" <kvan...@pobox.com> wrote in message
>I guess the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is it's
> all how you look at it and what you try to get out of it.
thank you K-man..
any gig is worth playing if everyone's on the same page...
and many gigs, regardless of pay, are not worth it if contrary circumstances
prevail
MBR
> Its noisy, dissonant and sounds like 4 guys all playing unrelated things
> simultaneously.
Some of the "kids" do enjoy being turned on to jazz, although I
suspect the number who really get into it is quite small. Someone on
this newsgroup once said that most people experience music as the
"soundtrack for their lives" the musical accompaniment to their life
experiences. For the vast majority of people that would NOT be jazz.
Jazz , for many people, is a small part of the cultural landscape;
it's like cultural wallpaper. It's around them, it's nice sometimes,
but it's a very small slice of what really affects them musically.
Therefore you get a lot of wallpaper type gigs, playing for
non-listening audiences in restaurants and so forth. There's usually
an appreciative few audience members which helps a lot, but for the
majority of average to above-average players, I doubt opportunities
to play jazz will move beyond that sort of environment in a
significant way. I hope I'm wrong, and that large segments of the
listening public will start to embrace real jazz but that isn't
likely. The music is more important to those of us that play it than
it is to many if not most people who hear it.
Recently I saw part of a Tal Farlow instrucutional video; at one
point they showed an excerpt of Tal playing a gig with Lenny Breau
and the audience didn't appear to be all that attentive. Such is the
life of a jazz musician. You get some good gigs but there are a lot of
mediocre ones.
Pete Kerezman
Aside from the fact that most of the jazz that I'm familiar with
doesn't resemble your description very closely, you're not giving the
kids or the music enough credit. My experience has been that younguns
are way more open minded than adults, and they are very accepting of
anything that breaks up the monotony of a mind-numbing educational
system.
Texas Pete
Bob R
tw25R...@cornell.edu wrote on 7/31/03 8:43 AM:
> The manager was definitely a creep. "Pick up the pace", my ass. If he
> wanted to go for a different type of music, he should have waited until
> the end of the night and discussed it with you. He was probably jealous
> of your ability and got off on jerking you around. Outrageous.
Ditto. Sounds like the guy just had some other problems and took it out on
you. FWIW, I've also run into business people who think that if you play
well, you "can play anything" and that you can/should just whip out whatever
they need on demand. ("Hey, if there's no money in selling shoes, I sell
appliances. Isn't music like that - if you're a professional?")
At any rate, asking you to just stop mid-gig like that was a stupidly
heavy-handed thing to do. The professional way to have handled it would have
been to tell you in advance that he's making a format change on
such-and-such a date and ask you if you're interested in going along with
it. That way, if you don't mind playing whatever it is he's looking for,
you've still got the gig and he doesn't have to go to the trouble of trying
out other acts. If you're not interested, then you can probably recommend
some good people in the style he wants and he gets the benefit of your
knowledge and experience.
--
Bob Russell
http://www.bobrussellguitar.com
CD, "Watch This!", available at:
http://www.cdbaby.com/bobrussell
Adam Bravo
"Pete Kerezman" <pete...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3f2924e...@news.intcomm.net...
They can be more open-minded than adults, but that doesn't change the fact
that most don't like it. They're generally happy to take a music class (at
least most kids I know liked the mandatory music education classes), but
that doesn't mean they found it fun enough to do outside of school. Like you
said, it was something to break the monotony.
Rbsoul
>>
Bumfuck is like Springfield. You find one in every state.
Ken Willinger
Hear my clips at:
http://www.soundclick.com/kenwillinger
Tom Lippincott
>wanted to go for a different type of music, he should have waited until
>the end of the night and discussed it with you. He was probably jealous
>of your ability and got off on jerking you around. Outrageous.
>--
>Tom Walls
>the guy at the Temple of Zeus
>http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/
>
I jokingly just told a friend of mine that if I hear one more club
owner/manager say to "pick up the pace" I just might go postal.
That phrase has definitely been a thorn in my side my whole career as a jazz
player.
It's always the same old story; if you play quiet stuff (ballads, medium tempo
swing, bossas) it's too mellow and they want you to "pick up the pace" and if
you play loud/intense (fast swing or more funky contemporary grooves) it's too
loud, turn it down. I think it's really just code for "play some Jimmy Buffett
instead of that weird assed crap you're doing."
Is it just me, is it just south Florida, or does that happen to a lot of you
guys in other areas when you play jazz in a club?
Greger Hoel
wrote:
>I think it's really just code for "play some Jimmy Buffett
>instead of that weird assed crap you're doing."
Next time you get requests for Jimmy Buffet, play David Allen Coe's
version of Margaritaville, Marijuanaville :P
Mark Kleinhaut
>situation which will get you out playing more regularly and just try
>to adopt a positive attitude about it, get the most you can musically,
>see what it does for you. That's all I'm suggesting.
>
this summer, it does make me realize what was good about it now that I'm
missing it more than I ever expected. I went sailing yesterday (instead
of work) and got to really chill out with nature and all that- really starting
to see the importance of appreciating how good we have it sometimes. It's
such a cliche that I won't even repeat saying it, but Joni said it right!
I'm going to look around for a local rest/bar to put on a regular jazz night-even
if I have to bankroll the damn thing myself.
Info and soundclips about:
"Chasing Tales":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Chasing%20Tales.html
"Amphora":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
"Secrets of Three": http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
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Greg D
I'm jumping in on this thread late, but I just wanted to let you know
that there are some of us at those restaurants listening. We also have
to listen to our spouses tell us about their day, but we've got one
ear your way even if we don't look like we do. And we can't openly
show you our appreciation else the spouses will know we were never
listening to them in the first place :)
Greg
> Earlier this year I decided that I would no longer take crappy gigs. I don't
> mean commercial gigs- hell, I swore off those years ago, I mean real jazz
> gigs, but by crappy I mean gigs that either (a) pay little money and (b)
> background music where nobody is listening. Guess what...now I pretty much
> have NO gigs.
>
> I thought if I stopped doing those gigs that made me unhappy I'd feel better,
> but I think I feel worse now. I do half a dozen concerts a year where it
> feel real...top calibre musicians, an attentive appreciative audience and
> a decent paycheck. It's just not feeling like enough to sustain me (mentally).
>
> I can't believe I'm in a funk over not playing these stupid $50 restaurant
> gigs where nobody listens, but I guess that at least I had the weekly interaction
> with the other guys in the band. We basically just played for ourselves,
> but it was playing afterall.
>
> I know I have so much to be grateful for, so I don't even feel the right
> to bitch about this (heh, I guess I just have).
>
>
tony bass
fulltime working Blues/Classic Rock/Country/R&B band.
First off, being a musician is not brain surgery or rocket science, no one
is going to DIE if you play, don't play, play badly or play like a genius.
You are just entertainment folks, that's all nothin' else, doesn't matter if
you picked up the instrument(s) yesterday or have been playing/practicing 12
hours a day 7 days a week for 100 years, you are just like a clown with a
big bright red nose, just entertainment that's all. I know this is
"shocking" to some of you that take whatever you're doing very, very
"seriously", but, ya gotta understand you're place in the grand scheme of
things. Joe Pass, Tal Farlow, Lenny Breau, Pat Metheny...just entertainment,
they didn't cure cancer, they didn't invent the polio vaccine, they didn't
invent calculus, etc!
Second, as a fulltime working musician if i just played one genre of music i
would be starving and belly-aching about the lack of support for my specific
genre. But, since i enjoy eating, air-conditioning, cable, etc., i realize
that i need to be flexible and diversify the styles that i am willing to do.
How silly would it be if you were a clothing store that only sold short
sleeved white T-shirts?! Someone might ask you for a polo shirt, a pair of
pants, or a black T-shirt, would you think this person was a creep for not
understanding your white T-shirt vision?! I don't know how to say it in
Latin but translate this...Diversify or Die.
Third, if you don't want to diversify then you just might be an artist, or a
redneck just kidding; } Well being an artist is a different situation from
being a craftsman like a musician. An artist does whatever it is they do
because they are incapable of doing anything else. Whether they are being
paid or not they do what they do for their sanity, and to give meaning to
their lives, etc. So if you're an artist then enjoy your standard of being
and stop whining about your standard of living. Btw, just cause you're an
artist doesn't mean you can't make a good or a great living, but, ya gotta
be smart about it or have someone manage your carreer.
Fourth, Ya gotta know your market. Don't sell sand to an Arab and don't try
to sell a comb to a bald guy no matter how hard you worked on inventing the
"perfect" comb. Ya need to adjust to the clients needs, wants, desires and
sometimes you have to walk away because you realise that there is nothing
that you can do to satisfy that potential client.
So that's it, i gotta go learn some new tunes and i'm trying out a new
bright orange nose for this evening.
Later,
Tony Bass
Mark Kleinhaut
Tony, I really don't get the point of your post and I don't agree whatsoever
that some of the music you mentioned is "just entertainment". Maybe I'm
just an artist, but does that mean I can't complain? Fuck that, art IS an
essential part of humanity and some people IS more important than curing
cancer- that is; what would be the point of living 200 years if there were
not art?
Bright orange nose, indeed, I wouldn't do the music you're doing even if
my life depended on it, which fortunately it doensn't.
Ray Kelly
>>So that's it, i gotta go learn some new tunes and i'm trying out a new
>>bright orange nose for this evening.
>>
>>Later,
>>Tony Bass
>>
>
>
> Tony, I really don't get the point of your post and I don't agree whatsoever
> that some of the music you mentioned is "just entertainment". Maybe I'm
> just an artist, but does that mean I can't complain? Fuck that, art IS an
> essential part of humanity and some people IS more important than curing
> cancer- that is; what would be the point of living 200 years if there were
> not art?
>
> Bright orange nose, indeed, I wouldn't do the music you're doing even if
> my life depended on it, which fortunately it doensn't.
>
> markkl...@hotmail.com
I heartily agree with Mark. Great art, film, literature and music makes
life worth living. It's hardly "just entertainment". I'd rather die of
cancer now than live the rest of my life without these precious gifts to
humanity. They certainly help to keep my sanity intact.
Ray
MBR
> I'm guessing selling drinks to a bar full of 20 and 30 something year olds
> trying to get laid is more profitable than selling dinners to couples and
> families, but I can't help but feel like there's a certain amount of injustice
> in the fact that I got fired from a gig where a large number of partrons so
> obviously enjoyed the music. Not to mention the humiliation of being asked to
> leave in the middle of the gig.
>
Wow...that is cold. It sounds like this guy would've had no problem
telling Lenny Breau or Joe Pass to pack up and leave. Unfortunately, a
lot of people evaluate music based on how loud and fast it is. Once I
was playing a solo gig, and while I was playing Prelude to a Kiss to a
quiet attentive audience, some people abruptly got up, chairs scraping
the tile floor, and one of them said, "I don't want to listen to this
cocktail stuff."
Mark Kleinhaut
That's the kind of shit I was talking about. I was once playing a duo gig
with a bass player- one of the infamous sunday brunch wallpaper gigs- when
an elderly woman came in with her middle aged daughter. The hostess was
about to sit them a few tables away from us when the daughter said loudly
"Oh, can we sit in the other room, please, away from this noise"!
Poets axe
writes:
>The professional way to have handled it would have
>been to tell you in advance that he's making a format change on
>such-and-such a date and ask you if you're interested in going along with
>it.
Bob,
Noble thought, but a lot of business owners are as refined as a shiny turd.
But, we can hope and dream. My experience, anyway...
Ian
Pete Kerezman
>Bright orange nose, indeed, I wouldn't do the music you're doing even if
>my life depended on it, which fortunately it doensn't.
Looks to me like what you're saying is that you would choose suicide
over playing commercial music, if it came to that. Not a good choice,
IMO.
I dig music, all kinds. Got lots of respect for the guys who've
chosen to earn their livelihoods at it. I'm just an ocassional
weekend warrior havin' fun. I wouldn't dare take myself too seriously
because I know better and life's too short.
Texas Pete
Mark Kleinhaut
But, the idea that "life's too short" is precicely what motivates me to be
picky and choosey. Anyway, suicide is a rather strong concept and not really
what I meant. Perhaps a more accurate assessment is that I'd give up playing
altogether and probably do lots for drugs to dull the pain- heh, maybe that
is suicide:)
ple...@nospam.us
>Tony, I really don't get the point of your post and I don't agree whatsoever
>that some of the music you mentioned is "just entertainment". Maybe I'm
>just an artist, but does that mean I can't complain? Fuck that, art IS an
>essential part of humanity and some people IS more important than curing
>cancer- that is; what would be the point of living 200 years if there were
>not art?
>
>Bright orange nose, indeed, I wouldn't do the music you're doing even if
>my life depended on it, which fortunately it doensn't.
Mark,
Art is important. I don't think Tony said it wasn't. People
pay for entertainment. My take on it is that if you need to
play other kinds of music so that you can keep playing the music
that moves you most, then it becomes a pragmatic necessity. If
you don't need to, that's a blessing, but many of us do find it
necessary and even enjoyable at times. I am hoping you aren't
putting down my choices.
Al Sato
--
Reply to al_guitar "at" clifftopmusic "dot" com
Mark Kleinhaut
No, Al, not at all. Commercial music is fine if that's what you want to do.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that or any other honest means of
making a living...even being a banker:0)
But to say that ALL music is just entertainment and of little value compared
to the proverbial "cure for cancer" (and molecular biologist researches ain't
well paid neither, by the way) is utter nonsense. So, I think Tony did in
effect say that art is unimportant, at least that's how I read his post.
I have nothing whatsoever against working musicians and commercial music,
though I think it's a tough as hell way to make a living and one I would
not choose personally.
Adam Bravo
"Ray Kelly" <kel...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HPvWa.124185$TJ.76...@twister.austin.rr.com...
Well, then entertainment makes life worth living. The point being, everybody
needs the same sort of food and water, but people need different kinds of
entertainment.
Jurupari
That was probably a blessing that they kept their hostility as far away as
possible.
As I've always said, people in general don't like jazz. If you play out and
play jazz, eventually you'll have to deal with that.
Also nothing seems to get people's panties in a bunch as quickly as being
exposed to some kind of music they're philosophically in some kind of
disagreement with.
Here in Aurora at Patricks, I went in to talk to somebody about maybe some
blues solo guitar during happy hours. Bartendress tells me, we had a guy
playing jazz guitar here last thursday and everybody thought he sucked. I'm
wondering who, since we have some pretty good local folks, and she says Stanley
Jordan. Crossed 'em off my list. They're known locally as a 'jazz club'
whatever the hell that means anymore.
The whole thing about any kind of art is it's asynchronous. Ironic that a
performance is out of sync if its in realtime and could only be regarded as art
at another time if you had an 'artifact' like a CD that would render the
performance.
Outside of being so damn good that you bring an audience of people who like
what you do, just like if you were so damn mediocre that you were popular, I
don't know if there's a solution.
Really, every time in my life that I got away with playing a whole night of
jazz and got paid, I felt like I had probably screwed somebody. I doubt that
jazz actually pays for itself very often, and from the common victualer's point
of view, to put it in Mark's neighborhood, you're entertainment, and you will
have an expectation in returns to stay afloat.
Sure, a clubowner may also be a patron of the arts and be willing to subsidize
jazz to some extent out of love for it, but that's not quite the same thing as
jazz paying for itself, which unfortunately, it rarely does.
Clay's experiences in the twin cities are very encouraging, and he's probably
personally responsible for his successes since he's obviously good at the
business aspects of being a player as well as just the playing. It's
encouraging to think that the venues must be turning a profit, or he wouldn't
be as busy as he is, either, so there must be a way to do it, but I don't know
if it could be done anywhere.
Clif Kuplen
ple...@nospam.us
>No, Al, not at all. Commercial music is fine if that's what you want to do.
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with that or any other honest means of
>making a living...even being a banker:0)
"Want to do" is a funny concept in some ways. It always boils
down to a choice. Sometimes playing "commercial" music is more
attractive than the available alternatives. Not all of us can
be molecular biologists, or medical doctors, or bankers.
>But to say that ALL music is just entertainment and of little value compared
>to the proverbial "cure for cancer" (and molecular biologist researches ain't
>well paid neither, by the way) is utter nonsense. So, I think Tony did in
>effect say that art is unimportant, at least that's how I read his post.
> I have nothing whatsoever against working musicians and commercial music,
>though I think it's a tough as hell way to make a living and one I would
>not choose personally.
We often exaggerate for emphasis. Art is art, entertainment is
entertainment and people are more likely to spend their money on
entertainment. However, I believe that we've somehow created a
false dichotomy. If jazz were the popular music of the day,
then would you be making art or commercial music? Is
Shakespearean drama art or entertainment?
You, Tony and I are in three different arguments, as I see it.
You're saying that it's hard to find the gigs where the
audiences and the management appreciate the music (the art) that
you create. He's saying that there are gigs to be found if you
are willing to play other kinds of music. I want my (third)
point of view to be aired - I'm saying that there are reasons
why I might choose to play music that isn't my first choice in
order to support what I would really like to play. I must add
that I look for and find things to love about all the music I
play.
Respectfully,
Jurupari
>
except for the worst. Now you compete with music that comes out of the air,
boxes, conveyences ad psychotem. Music 150 years ago was at least generated by
musicians 90% of the time - I think there were already player pianos.
Automation can do this to any degree of artisanship, history has sadly taught
us.
Clif
Bob R
poet...@aol.com wrote on 8/1/03 12:25 PM:
> Noble thought, but a lot of business owners are as refined as a shiny turd.
That's true of just about any cross-section of people you choose, isn't it?
I've worked with about every kind of club owner there is: raging cokeheads,
knuckle-dragging rednecks, rich kids who thought it'd be fun to open a
restaurant, zoned-out superannuated hippies who couldn't tell the difference
between Charlie Parker and Charlie Callas, guys who were running a bar as a
front for gunrunning operations - and quite a few decent people as well.
Jurupari
>that most don't like it.
In general, Richard's probably right. Whether or not kids would tolerate jazz
is probably dependant on a lot of things.
But, once I got a really surprising and very positive response from kids at a
video store gig - I wound up sort of being baby sitter for some pretty well
behaved and attentive youngsters sitting crosslegged on the carpet in front of
me while mom and pop shopped.
Clif
MBR
> playing nearly 50 years and he makes the same dough as a college kid? It's
> just so disrespectful for there to be no recognition of his lifetime's worth
> of experience.
=========================================
A bar is a bar. They aren't going to pay much more than 50-75 dollars
no matter how long you've been playing. I've always wondered why
people dissed George Benson and Wes Montgomery for "selling out" and
making commercial music. They were the best and they could barely make
a living playing jazz.
Jim Kangas
restaurant where I play, it's entertainment (or maybe an annoyance!),
but to me it's art. That's fine by me.
-Jim
Jurupari
>>to the proverbial "cure for cancer" (and molecular biologist researches
>ain't
>>well paid neither, by the way) is utter nonsense.
I'd have to go for that. If you play music and you don't think it's anything
special, why do it? I see a very great difference between enlightenment and
entertainment. I can't go into detail, and you can shuck this off as a lie if
you want but I can testify under oath that my ability to play music has saved
at least one life. That's a shitload more than just entertainment.
Clif Kuplen
icarusi
news:3f2a6...@news.Usenet.com...
> I'm going to look around for a local rest/bar to put on a regular
jazz night-even
> if I have to bankroll the damn thing myself.
That's the ticket! Become a 'promoter', you only need a cigar.
Icarusi
--
remove the 00 to reply
Adam Bravo
news:20030801194142...@mb-m29.aol.com...
> >But to say that ALL music is just entertainment and of little value
compared
> >>to the proverbial "cure for cancer" (and molecular biologist researches
> >ain't
> >>well paid neither, by the way) is utter nonsense.
>
> I'd have to go for that. If you play music and you don't think it's
anything
> special, why do it?
It's fun, and people enjoy it.
> I see a very great difference between enlightenment and
> entertainment. I can't go into detail, and you can shuck this off as a
lie if
> you want but I can testify under oath that my ability to play music has
saved
> at least one life. That's a shitload more than just entertainment.
Why do people think that entertainment is insignificant? Nearly anything
people enjoy doing is entertainment, and it is for entertainment that people
live.
David Kotschessa
> Tony, I really don't get the point of your post and I don't agree whatsoever
> that some of the music you mentioned is "just entertainment". Maybe I'm
> just an artist, but does that mean I can't complain? Fuck that, art IS an
> essential part of humanity and some people IS more important than curing
> cancer- that is; what would be the point of living 200 years if there were
> not art?
>
> Bright orange nose, indeed, I wouldn't do the music you're doing even if
> my life depended on it, which fortunately it doensn't.
>
> markkl...@hotmail.com
I'm with you, Mark. Thanks for saving me the trouble of replying and
going apeshit. I play lots of different types of music, but it's
music I love. Something you love that much is worth starving for if
you have to, and you don't have to. There will always be times you'll
have to make compromises between what you like to do and what people
like to hear, but I think some people make that compromise too quickly
and too easily.
And I agree about the importance of music. Music here, now, not some
far off dream. Music is not a distraction from everyday life, it's
life itself. Spare me the extra 10 years added to my life and give me
music instead.
-Dave
David Kotschessa
>
> Art is important. I don't think Tony said it wasn't. People
> pay for entertainment. My take on it is that if you need to
> play other kinds of music so that you can keep playing the music
> that moves you most, then it becomes a pragmatic necessity. If
> you don't need to, that's a blessing, but many of us do find it
> necessary and even enjoyable at times. I am hoping you aren't
> putting down my choices.
>
> Al Sato
Of course he isn't. The question is, do you enjoy what you're doing,
or do you feel like it's robbing you of your personality and your art?
The key there is you said you enjoy it, at least "at times." A
musician who dislikes his job is in the same shape as an 8-5 cubicle
monkey who hates his job. If I quit my helpdesk job to play in some
shitty band, though there might be some educational benefit of being
more involved in the music business, after awhile, (I know myself well
enough to say this with confidence) I would begin to feel as if I have
not moved at all. I might as well be in the same job.
-Dave
Ted Vieira
Ted
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
http://TedVieira.com
Bio Info, Free Online Guitar Instruction,
Instructional Books, Articles, hear my CDs and more...
--
Listen to my new solo jazz guitar CD, "Quiet Places"
at: http://tedvieira.com/cd.html
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
tony bass
words "immature", "self-centered" and "fanatic" came to mind. Ok, so let's
see how many of you babies are married and have children? Out of those with
kids how many would keep their precious "art" instead of having the cure for
whatever deadly, horribly disfiguring and agonizingly torturous disease your
child has? If anyone raises their hand in support of the art over the child
then please shoot yourself in the head now and save the human race from
another sociopathic personality. Yes, yes many "artists" have left
incredible art behind, but, as human beings more than a few were human
pieces of shit like the following names: Charlie Parker, Pablo Picasso,
Woody Allen, Roman Polanski, James Brown, etc., but they also left a trail
of misery.
Oh, and for those of you that wouldn't play "commercial" music if your life
depended on it you guys might as well load the revolver too, cause the last
time I checked 99.9% of "Jazz" Records are for SALE as in a "commercial"
endevour, to make $$$, if you want to go on a "spiritual" journey open up a
vein and take that trip in the spirit world or is that too fanatical? Here's
a better idea, why don't you just grow up and be a man and stop the BS ass
kissing of art, especially whatever you're playing, as something other than
what it really is...just entertainment to the VAST majority of humans on the
planet. Opps, gotta go again, gotta get ready for another $$$ gig that isn't
jazz!!!
Tony Bass
ple...@nospam.us
I know he wasn't. I should not have written that. I try to
find things to love about every kind of music I play and I try
to bring something with me to each new genre. I understated my
enjoyment of performing in what I wrote above in an apparently
misdirected attempt at making a more universal statement. Last
night I backed a singer/songwriter on acoustic and I enjoyed
that immensely. I choose to play music other than what is my
first choice partially to bring in money but also to stretch my
boundaries. Everything I learn comes back and informs my "art."
People want me to play with them because I bring a lot of
influences with me and don't sound like everyone else (at least,
I think that's why).
There is no reason why, if you quit your day job, you should
land in a "shitty band." If it's shitty, then move on to a
better situation. You might find a great deal of pleasure and
interest in jobbing out, for example. I enjoy that very much
and it represents more than half of the gigs I get.
Newsgroup posting is one way to guarantee misinterpretation.
The point I really wanted to make was about the false dichotomy
we create when we talk about art vs. entertainment. I am
entertained when I hear McCoy Tyner play. That fact does not
diminish the art.
Ray Kelly
have significant importance in this world.
tony bass wrote:
> Hmmm...after reading the posts in support of cancer and early death the
> words "immature", "self-centered" and "fanatic" came to mind. Ok, so let's
> see how many of you babies are married and have children? Out of those with
> kids how many would keep their precious "art" instead of having the cure for
> whatever deadly, horribly disfiguring and agonizingly torturous disease your
> child has?
I'm sorry if you have a child who is dying.
> If anyone raises their hand in support of the art over the child
> then please shoot yourself in the head now and save the human race from
> another sociopathic personality. Yes, yes many "artists" have left
> incredible art behind, but, as human beings more than a few were human
> pieces of shit like the following names: Charlie Parker, Pablo Picasso,
> Woody Allen, Roman Polanski, James Brown, etc., but they also left a trail
> of misery.
There are great doctors who undoubtedly are also human pieces of shit in
other ways. This has nothing to do with the discussion.
>
> Oh, and for those of you that wouldn't play "commercial" music if your life
> depended on it you guys might as well load the revolver too, cause the last
> time I checked 99.9% of "Jazz" Records are for SALE as in a "commercial"
> endevour, to make $$$, if you want to go on a "spiritual" journey open up a
> vein and take that trip in the spirit world or is that too fanatical? Here's
> a better idea, why don't you just grow up and be a man and stop the BS ass
> kissing of art, especially whatever you're playing, as something other than
> what it really is...just entertainment to the VAST majority of humans on the
> planet. Opps, gotta go again, gotta get ready for another $$$ gig that isn't
> jazz!!!
This has nothing to do with what you do for a living. Would you
honestly trade a cure for cancer for a world totally void of
art/creativity? Both cancer research and art are very important to society.
>
> Tony Bass
>
Adam Bravo
> This isn't an either/or situation. Both "art" and a "cure for cancer"
> have significant importance in this world.
True. But what was being discussed is if you had to choose.
Bob R
wrote on 8/2/03 4:42 PM:
You don't have to choose, so what's the point of discussing that?
What if Napoleon had had a Piper Cub? If Lois Lane and Lana Lane are in a
death trap and Superman can only save one of them, which one does he save?
If you've got nothing else to do, you can amuse yourself by entertaining
questions like those. The guy just imposed that non-existent condition on
the discussion as an excuse to get more overwrought.
Beethoven was, by all accounts, not such a nice guy. Whatever his bad
qualities may have been, he wrote a lot of music that's still played. When
it's played, some people are profoundly affected by it; it touches their
being. For other people, it's just an excuse to dress up and show off their
fur stole at the concert hall. It's entirely possible that some doctor
developing a cure for cancer could be listening to Beethoven in the lab
while he works. Maybe the music helps him notice a pattern he never noticed
before. Or maybe it distracts him and makes him miss a pattern he'd have
noticed otherwise.
It's entirely possible that listening to "Achy Breaky Heart" could be making
a dying person feel better somewhere. It could be that listening to
"Groovin' High" makes someone want to build a playground in a ghetto. Or
start shooting at cars from an overpass. What's my point? Exactly.
David Kotschessa
things around, as well as name-calling. Arguing with what you've just
said would be kind of pointless at this time.
Tom Lippincott
>
>That's true of just about any cross-section of people you choose, isn't it?
>I've worked with about every kind of club owner there is: raging cokeheads,
>knuckle-dragging rednecks, rich kids who thought it'd be fun to open a
>restaurant, zoned-out superannuated hippies who couldn't tell the difference
>between Charlie Parker and Charlie Callas, guys who were running a bar as a
>front for gunrunning operations - and quite a few decent people as well.
>
>--
>Bob Russell
heh! sounds like we've had just about the same experiences with club owners.
Tom Lippincott
Guitarist, Composer, Teacher
audio samples, articles, CD's at:
http://www.tomlippincott.com
8 string guitar audio samples at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/tomlippincottmusic.htm
Adam Bravo
"Bob R" <br...@reality.net> wrote in message
news:BB51B166.1D0CA%br...@reality.net...
> in article zqVWa.34198$Ne.3134@fed1read03, Adam Bravo at mra...@cox.net
> wrote on 8/2/03 4:42 PM:
>
> > "Ray Kelly" <kel...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F2C157C...@austin.rr.com...
> >> This isn't an either/or situation. Both "art" and a "cure for cancer"
> >> have significant importance in this world.
> >
> > True. But what was being discussed is if you had to choose.
> >
> >
>
> You don't have to choose, so what's the point of discussing that?
> What if Napoleon had had a Piper Cub? If Lois Lane and Lana Lane are in a
> death trap and Superman can only save one of them, which one does he save?
> If you've got nothing else to do, you can amuse yourself by entertaining
> questions like those. The guy just imposed that non-existent condition on
> the discussion as an excuse to get more overwrought.
But we were discussing whether it is OK for a musician to play something
they don't enjoy on the basis of money. That is an either/or situation.
Granted, one would be hard pressed to find someone who actually had to make
the decision between playing music they liked and finding a cure for cancer.
> Beethoven was, by all accounts, not such a nice guy. Whatever his bad
> qualities may have been, he wrote a lot of music that's still played. When
> it's played, some people are profoundly affected by it; it touches their
> being. For other people, it's just an excuse to dress up and show off
their
> fur stole at the concert hall. It's entirely possible that some doctor
> developing a cure for cancer could be listening to Beethoven in the lab
> while he works. Maybe the music helps him notice a pattern he never
noticed
> before. Or maybe it distracts him and makes him miss a pattern he'd have
> noticed otherwise.
>
> It's entirely possible that listening to "Achy Breaky Heart" could be
making
> a dying person feel better somewhere. It could be that listening to
> "Groovin' High" makes someone want to build a playground in a ghetto. Or
> start shooting at cars from an overpass. What's my point? Exactly.
Sure - different people like different things, and are affected differently
by them. I didn't think that was ever in dispute.
David Kotschessa
Max Leggett
wrote:
>But we were discussing whether it is OK for a musician to play something
>they don't enjoy on the basis of money. That is an either/or situation.
If you want to earn your living strictly from playing music you'll
have to compromise somewhere. Diz did, Bird did, Trane did, I did. If
you don't want to compromise then you come up with an alternative
income stream. Some guys tend bar, some become accountants, so go into
banking, and some say the hell with it they don't want anything to do
with playing professionally. There's nothing wrong with playing
something you don't like if it pays the bills, and there's nothing
wrong with developing an alternative income stream if you don't want
to compromise. Art for art's sake is a noble ideal, but it likely
won't put food on the table.
thom_j.
"David Kotschessa" <dkots...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4589696c.03080...@posting.google.com...
> I gotta stay off these fuckin' threads. Usenet is killing me man.
Wanna buy a duck? huh? huh?huh?
t.j.
josh
Jack A. Zucker
Join the club...I'm sorry for jumping in so late into the conversation but I
did the same thing. I was doing a restaurant gig 2x a week. We had fun but
were constantly hassled about volume and on top of that, everytime the club
switched managers, we lost the gigs were were already booked for and I had
to re-apply for the gigs.
On top of this, the local college kids who have been playing for about 5
years were doing the gigs for $35 each and the club owner couldn't tell the
difference.
I finally decided that it was a load of crap to be treated like this. It'd
be a different story if the gigs paid anything but for $50-$60 per gig it
just wasn't worth it. I find myself sitting at home most weekends while I
read many stories of this or that amazing guitarist...
Oh well, I have a good job, a wonderful wife and 2 great kids. I don't need
to be treated like this. Perhaps you have gotten to the root of my recent
ambivalence towards this music...
Anyway, nothing against those full time players who do the $50 gigs because
they need the money but though I'm bitter-sweet about being home on the
weekends, I'm actually happier than when I was getting taken advantage of...
Sorry I didn't lend anything really astonishing to the thread but I found
your posting to be heartfelt and worth responding to...
Jaz
"Mark Kleinhaut" <markkl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f27e8a4$1...@127.0.0.1...
>
> Earlier this year I decided that I would no longer take crappy gigs. I
don't
> mean commercial gigs- hell, I swore off those years ago, I mean real jazz
> gigs, but by crappy I mean gigs that either (a) pay little money and (b)
> background music where nobody is listening. Guess what...now I pretty
much
> have NO gigs.
>
> I thought if I stopped doing those gigs that made me unhappy I'd feel
better,
> but I think I feel worse now. I do half a dozen concerts a year where it
> feel real...top calibre musicians, an attentive appreciative audience and
> a decent paycheck. It's just not feeling like enough to sustain me
(mentally).
>
> I can't believe I'm in a funk over not playing these stupid $50 restaurant
> gigs where nobody listens, but I guess that at least I had the weekly
interaction
> with the other guys in the band. We basically just played for ourselves,
> but it was playing afterall.
>
> I know I have so much to be grateful for, so I don't even feel the right
> to bitch about this (heh, I guess I just have).
Tim Berens
wrote:
<self righteous BS snipped>
Tony:
You're new here, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume
that you aren't as much of an asshole as you seem from your posts.
Sit back and read the posts here for a while before you start your
condescending lectures. There are all sorts of skilled musicians who
hang out here.
You might actually learn something.
Tim
http://timberens.com
A Website for Guitarists
Learn something...Have some fun
Bob R
tomli...@aol.comnospam wrote on 8/2/03 8:01 PM:
> heh! sounds like we've had just about the same experiences with club owners.
>
> Tom Lippincott
There are definitely some interesting people who decide to go into that
business. :-)
David Kotschessa
> Newsgroup posting is one way to guarantee misinterpretation.
It most certainly is. I actually promised myself awhile ago to stay
off of these types of threads and keep my mouth shut, but have failed
miserably all too often. I get the most benefit from this group when
I stick to relatively musical discussions and stay out of the whole
metaphysics of the music industry type thing.
> The point I really wanted to make was about the false dichotomy
> we create when we talk about art vs. entertainment. I am
> entertained when I hear McCoy Tyner play. That fact does not
> diminish the art.
>
> Al Sato
I agree... but you know, words, definitions, what does this mean, what
does that mean... Usenet frustrations. gah! I think that's why I got
into this music in the first place... No words - nothing to
misunderstand or argue about.
going back into my pretend vow of silence...
-Dave
Pete Kerezman
>>>Bright orange nose, indeed, I wouldn't do the music you're doing even if
>>>my life depended on it, which fortunately it doensn't.
>>
>> Looks to me like what you're saying is that you would choose suicide
>>over playing commercial music, if it came to that. Not a good choice,
>>IMO.
>>
>> I dig music, all kinds. Got lots of respect for the guys who've
>>chosen to earn their livelihoods at it. I'm just an ocassional
>>weekend warrior havin' fun. I wouldn't dare take myself too seriously
>>because I know better and life's too short.
>>
>
>But, the idea that "life's too short" is precicely what motivates me to be
>picky and choosey.
That's how you got to be a world class player, amigo. You've done
all the hard work so that turkeys like me can enjoy the fruits of your
labor, and so that the wannabes can have something to shoot for. But
I think that being easily satisfied has its advantages also.
> Anyway, suicide is a rather strong concept and not really
>what I meant.
I'm so blessed to be able to enjoy making simple-minded music as
well as trying to cop some jazz licks here and there. And, like Tony
Bass, I also get off on entertaining people.
Just keep doing what you're doing, man. And thanks for doing it.
Texas Pete
Jurupari
>kissing of art, especially whatever you're playing, as something other than
>what it really is...just entertainment to the VAST majority of humans on the
>planet. Opps, gotta go again, gotta get ready for another $$$ gig that isn't
Based on your post, if you have a mop and bucket gig, you're Peter Principled.
If you wanta preach artistic morality, get ordained and get the flock out of
here.
If you want to call your betters pieces of shit, you're not any kind of 'man'
I've ever met. That's old boy stuff, and the identities are mutually
exclusive. You really come off as frustrated and bitter. That could show on
the gig too, if you're not more careful than you are here.
Clif Kuplen
richieb
[...]
> Yes, yes many "artists" have left
> incredible art behind, but, as human beings more than a few were human
> pieces of shit like the following names: Charlie Parker, Pablo Picasso,
> Woody Allen, Roman Polanski, James Brown, etc., but they also left a trail
> of misery.
>
I just read Charlie Parker's biography. The most harm he caused was to
himself - he got addicted to heroine at 15 and never stopped. Most
people who knew Charlie Parker found him a generous human being. I saw
an interview with Dizzy in which he started to cry when talking about
Bird.
I don't know details of the other names you mentioned, but given any
random group of people you will find many who cause a lot of grief for
others.
Why not talk about the guys who were nice. Wes Montgomery worked three
jobs to support his family. Duke Ellington took great care of his
mother and his children. Dave Brubeck is a real nice guy. I'm sure
others can make this list much longer.
Bottom line is that being a jazz musician doesn't make you a better or
worse person...
...richie
Jurupari
>mother and his children.
Hey, I liked your post and I'm in agreement, but there was friction, apparently
a lot of it between Duke and Mercer. I haven't read about it in years and
don't recall details, but we're all human, and we all have issues.
Clif
ple...@nospam.us
Man, I'm with you. This is the first one of these discussions
I've butted into and I have to say I'm displeased with myself.
I hope I'm not starting a trend.
Al
Mark Kleinhaut
ple...@nospam.us wrote:
>dkots...@yahoo.com (David Kotschessa) wrote:
>
>>ple...@nospam.us wrote in message news:<932oivc3t2lu6hkgc...@4ax.com>...
>>
>>> Newsgroup posting is one way to guarantee misinterpretation.
>>
>>It most certainly is. I actually promised myself awhile ago to stay
>>off of these types of threads and keep my mouth shut, but have failed
>>miserably all too often. I get the most benefit from this group when
>>I stick to relatively musical discussions and stay out of the whole
>>metaphysics of the music industry type thing.
>>
>>
>>> The point I really wanted to make was about the false dichotomy
>>> we create when we talk about art vs. entertainment. I am
>>> entertained when I hear McCoy Tyner play. That fact does not
>>> diminish the art.
>>>
>>> Al Sato
>>
>>I agree... but you know, words, definitions, what does this mean, what
>>does that mean... Usenet frustrations. gah! I think that's why I got
>>into this music in the first place... No words - nothing to
>>misunderstand or argue about.
>>
>>going back into my pretend vow of silence...
>>
>>-Dave
>
>I hope I'm not starting a trend.
>
>Al
>
I don't see any problem with anything anyone has said. All points of view
are valid and I think if things get hashed around enough eventually there
is understanding, even here in usenet.
Tony's comments represent a frame of reference that is widely held among
the general population of people who don't "get" jazz- even if they in fact
still hire "jazz musicians". Some people are probably better off not knowing
anything about it in any way, so it doesn't bother me one bit. Different
strokes for different folks:)
Info and soundclips about:
"Chasing Tales":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Chasing%20Tales.html
"Amphora":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
"Secrets of Three": http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
----== Posted via Usenet.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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tomw
> "Jurupari" <juru...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030801194142...@mb-m29.aol.com...
> > >But to say that ALL music is just entertainment and of little value
> compared
> > >>to the proverbial "cure for cancer" (and molecular biologist researches
> > >ain't
> > >>well paid neither, by the way) is utter nonsense.
> >
> > I'd have to go for that. If you play music and you don't think it's
> anything
> > special, why do it?
>
> It's fun, and people enjoy it.
>
> > I see a very great difference between enlightenment and
> > entertainment. I can't go into detail, and you can shuck this off as a
> lie if
> > you want but I can testify under oath that my ability to play music has
> saved
> > at least one life. That's a shitload more than just entertainment.
>
> Why do people think that entertainment is insignificant? Nearly anything
> people enjoy doing is entertainment, and it is for entertainment that people
> live.
>
>
>
You've inflated the meaning of "entertainment" to cover any human
endeavor that people enjoy. I guess religion, sex, and eating are
entertainment too. So what's life? Entertainment. ;<)
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus
http://www.arts.cornell.edu/zeus/
David Kotschessa
> I don't see any problem with anything anyone has said. All points of view
> are valid and I think if things get hashed around enough eventually there
> is understanding, even here in usenet.
>
> Tony's comments represent a frame of reference that is widely held among
> the general population of people who don't "get" jazz- even if they in fact
> still hire "jazz musicians". Some people are probably better off not knowing
> anything about it in any way, so it doesn't bother me one bit. Different
> strokes for different folks:)
It's just hard to keep from getting worked up, and then start saying
things that don't make any sense, which adds to the confusion. Some
topics are better undiscussed I think.
But then thinking about it later,(oh boy here I go) my thought was
this... You posted the original topic about the lack of quality gigs.
You are musician who has set a higher standard for yourself in terms
of what you will do for your gigs, and there are dissapointingly few
of them.
It's a perfectly legitimate gripe.
Of course you could do something else or play some other kind of
music, and maybe at some point you have to make a compromise you won't
like - that's exactly the problem. The fact that you have to make the
compromise is the problem. Basically, this guy is saying "get out of
the jazz business." Sorry buddy, no can do, that's our business.
It's the one we chose. We have every right to complain when business
is slow, just like anybody does in any business, because it is a sad
state of affairs that there aren't more people around who really
appreciate jazz, not because we can make money off of it, but because
it's such a wonderful thing and people are missing out.
-Dave
Mark Kleinhaut
Jack, I had a sense from other posts and other threads that you'd relate
to the frustration part. How have you felt about the not playing part with
other players part- isn't there some withdrawal your feeling? I deal with
it by jamming in the livingroom with friends and I'm lucky to have some great
players nearby who are happy to come over, but even that doen't replace the
feeling for playing for an audience, no matter how small.
Info and soundclips about:
"Chasing Tales":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Chasing%20Tales.html
"Amphora":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
"Secrets of Three": http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
Jurupari
if either of you guys had made any effort to market specifically to other
guitar players. Flyers in music stores, maybe that sort of thing.
It occurs to me that one rarely gets to hear guitarists of your ability in the
flesh, which would probably be a big hohummer to a lot of non musicians, but
jeez, if either of you guys were playing where I could hear you, I'd definitely
get out and I'd think a whole lotta beginning to intermediate players would
also love a chance to hear what you guys can do if they only knew about it.
Just wonderin',
Clif
Mark Kleinhaut
Hey Clif, I try to do lots of emailing, listserve stuff and press release
promotion of any gig I have, and it does attract a few guitar players, but
not as much as you'd think. I had a few guys studying with me for nearly
a year who'd NEVER come out to hear me play, even if it was free, so what's
with that? This reminds me of that rant/post called "No More Students" that
I started some months ago.
Info and soundclips about:
"Chasing Tales":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Chasing%20Tales.html
"Amphora":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
"Secrets of Three": http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
----== Posted via Usenet.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.Usenet.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
Jurupari
>a year who'd NEVER come out to hear me play, even if it was free, so what's
>with that?
we're just spoiled as a society, I guess. When I was both gigging and
teaching, my guys were always somewhere around, and one or two had booked gigs
for me.
Clif
Adam Bravo
"tomw" <tw25R...@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:MPG.199819159...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu...
Well, I was thinking about it, and it's mostly true. Entertainment is that
which people enjoy. And people have to do a lot of stuff they don't enjoy -
track finances, work, raise kids, eat healthy food, work to make the world
better, research candidates for voting, etc. People recognize the necessity
of these things, but if the necessity were removed, they probably wouldn't
do it.
I would say anything one does as their main job is exempt from
"entertainment," though.
Rbsoul
As I've mentioned before, I think you should get your band down to Boston
occasionally, especially with a contact like Tiger there. I know Regatta Bar
and Scullers are difficult to get into but how about some of the smaller
venues, like Ryles? There are planty of Boston area folks on the NG that would
love to come and hear you (and bring their friends) and get to hang out...and
you could flog your CD (s). How about a CD release gig at Johnny D's in
Somerville? I'm sure you could draw a following.
Ken Willinger
Hear my clips at:
http://www.soundclick.com/kenwillinger
Mark Kleinhaut
Hi Ken, thanks for your suggestions. I've been working to crack the Ragata
Bar for quite a while now and still have an iron in the fire for this November.
Ryles never returns my calls or email. Johnny D's looks like a rock and
blues club, though I just checked and found to my surprise Mick Goodrick
is playing there on a wednesday.
I'd love to play in Boston. It's a workable commute for sure and it would
be good to reach some new people. Thanks.
Info and soundclips about:
"Chasing Tales":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Chasing%20Tales.html
"Amphora":
http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/Amphora.html
"Secrets of Three": http://www.invisiblemusicrecords.com/Resources/SO3.html
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