Making a good adjustment
Joe Finn
forward to going away to college. I've had a lot of them that have done
really well and a few that have crashed and burned.
It reminds me of when I was a freshman in college and the dorm director
brought us all together for a little speech early that first semester. We
were in an all male dorm with about 400 residents, three to a room. "I'd
like each of you gentlemen to look at the man on your left and the man on
your right," the dorm director said, "because one of the three of you won't
be here next year." I'm not sure if he was trying to be discouraging but it
turned out to be roughly true. Both of my roommates dropped out. A lot of
young men make a poor adjustment to college life. Some chase girls and drink
beer, some do drugs, some are homesick, some just hate to study; there are
lots of specific individual circumstances, but the attrition is real. I knew
a guy who quit without ever having visited the library.
I think a lot of young men are lacking the emotional maturity to be honest
with themselves about who they are. I takes a certain commitment to succeed
in an academic setting. In music the foundation for college level success
must be put in place years earlier. Students will have an enhanced chance at
making a good adjustment to the extent they can be honest with themselves
about the serious commitments they will have to make regarding academic
discipline. Part of what teachers and other responsible adults need to do is
to provide some guidance in this regard in encouraging students to be
realistic in understanding what it may take to flourish in the college
setting. ...........joe
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
pmfan57
The main thing is some commitment to study. Probably both your
roommates had the ability to pass, but did not apply themselves.
College is really not very hard substantively unless you are an
engineering (brutal) or physics major (maybe math). It just requires
some discipline.
Kjetil Rossavik
> Some chase girls and drink beer,
I had good intentions, but by the time I had drunk enough beer to have
the courage, I was too drunk to have a chance...
;-)
KJ.
Derek
notes, and to read a text to glean information from it.
The other thing I see missing at times is the ability to organize
one's thoughts in writing. Basic writing skills seem to trip up
freshmen. I see it in people I hire all the time.
Bottom line is, not everyone is cut out for college I think.
Someone has to fix our cars, plumbing, electrical, etc. Guys who can
do that stuff are just as valuable to society as guys like me who run
companies imo.
Joe Finn
>The main thing is some commitment to study. Probably both your
>roommates had the ability to pass, but did not apply themselves.
>College is really not very hard substantively unless you are an
>engineering (brutal) or physics major (maybe math). It just requires
>some discipline.
I agree. Motivation, commitment and application are among the keys to
success. The only problem is that I don't know how to teach them.
I had a kid come to me as a high school senior and he said he wanted to go
to college as a music major. This kid couldn't find C on a guitar or any
other instrument. I asked him, "Where were you six years ago?" but he didn't
catch my drift. I showed him some undergrad theory texts but he still didn't
get it. How do you tell somebody that they don't have a snowball's chance in
hell? I told his parents that he had none of the prerequisites and that his
future as a music student was doubtful.
He was accepted at a college that had a music department but dropped out
before Christmas. It doesn't make me feel any better to know that he's
thirty now and has yet to complete college or accomplish much of anything
else. This kid isn't exactly stupid either. Sometimes problems with
discipline and commitment will stop an otherwise intelligent kid dead in his
tracks. ..............joe
Joe Finn
news:690ghqF...@mid.individual.net...
Ah, yes. My beer-drinkin', girl-chasin' days were similar. I kept chasing
this one girl. She finally caught me. .......joe
Kjetil Rossavik
Related to this, I thought the "discipline as a muscle" thoughts on
Myles' blog were interesting. When you're going from school (as in
pre-college) to college/university you get a lot of freedom, as the
responsibility for your own learning is handed over to yourself. No
longer will you have teachers spoon-feeding you and making sure that you
progress as expected. As you say above, what you need now is the
discipline to study. Given that a lot of people don't have a lot of
discipline from the start, you need to practice and exercise your
discipline. Give yourself achievable goals, goals that you can meet and
exceed and feel good about yourself - even if this means goals like "I
am going to go to all my classes, and also study 2 hrs a day 5 days a
week". Once you can master goals like that, then you can gradually ramp
up, little by little, just like you do in the gym (or with the metronome!)
KJ.
Joe Finn
news:978bf4ed-c208-405e...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Some of it is being taught basic study skills, ability to take decent
> notes, and to read a text to glean information from it.
>
> The other thing I see missing at times is the ability to organize
> one's thoughts in writing. Basic writing skills seem to trip up
> freshmen. I see it in people I hire all the time.
Oh, yes indeed. I stumble upon people who appear to be functionally
illiterate, much to my amazement and dismay. I think some families just
don't place a high value on reading, education, knowledge, etc. From being a
poor reader it's just a hop, skip, and a jump to the inability to "organize
one's thoughts in writing" and other hallmarks of the downwardly mobile.
>
> Bottom line is, not everyone is cut out for college I think.
That sounds like Jay Leno's old joke about a conference he had with his high
school principal who told him, "Jay, education is not for everyone.".
8-) ........joe
Joe Finn
> Joe Finn wrote:
>> "pmfan57" <jwra...@aol.com> wrote
>>> The main thing is some commitment to study. Probably both your
>>> roommates had the ability to pass, but did not apply themselves.
>>> College is really not very hard substantively unless you are an
>>> engineering (brutal) or physics major (maybe math). It just requires
>>> some discipline.
>>
>> I agree. Motivation, commitment and application are among the keys to
>> success. The only problem is that I don't know how to teach them.
>>
>> I had a kid come to me as a high school senior and he said he wanted to
>> go to college as a music major. This kid couldn't find C on a guitar or
>> any other instrument. I asked him, "Where were you six years ago?" but he
>> didn't catch my drift. I showed him some undergrad theory texts but he
>> still didn't get it. How do you tell somebody that they don't have a
>> snowball's chance in hell? I told his parents that he had none of the
>> prerequisites and that his future as a music student was doubtful.
>>
>> He was accepted at a college that had a music department but dropped out
>> before Christmas. It doesn't make me feel any better to know that he's
>> thirty now and has yet to complete college or accomplish much of anything
>> else. This kid isn't exactly stupid either. Sometimes problems with
>> discipline and commitment will stop an otherwise intelligent kid dead in
>> his tracks. ..............joe
>>
>
> your own learning is handed over to yourself. No longer will you have
> teachers spoon-feeding you and making sure that you progress as expected.
> As you say above, what you need now is the discipline to study. Given that
> a lot of people don't have a lot of discipline from the start, you need to
> practice and exercise your discipline. Give yourself achievable goals,
> goals that you can meet and exceed and feel good about yourself - even if
> this means goals like "I am going to go to all my classes, and also study
> 2 hrs a day 5 days a week". Once you can master goals like that, then you
> can gradually ramp up, little by little, just like you do in the gym (or
> with the metronome!)
>
> KJ.
Well put. thank you! ....joe
rpjazz...@gmail.com
I'd add this.
If that many people are dropping out that quickly, there's a good
chance that there's something "interesting", someplace, in the process
which places them there. I say "interesting" and not "wrong" because
the people who drop out are getting an opportunity to try something --
which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most successful people have
failed at something. I'd be curious about what happens to the drop-
outs later. Do most find a more satisfying place to be in life?
As far as preparation goes, I have my doubts about whether things like
discipline and study skills can really be taught. I wonder if they are
things which can be improved if you already have the temperament -
which some do not.
There is also the societal pressure to get a college degree. By the
end of high school people have been in school for 13 years (K-12) plus
preschool, often without developing any sense of their path through
life. The emphasis on college may eliminate any discussion of
alternatives. Is it surprising that some don't really want to spend
another 4 years in school?
On May 14, 10:19 am, "Joe Finn" <J...@JoeFinn.net> wrote:
> "Kjetil Rossavik" <n...@rossavik.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:690kncF...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Joe Finn wrote:
> >> "pmfan57" <jwrag...@aol.com> wrote
> Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Joe Finn
>As far as preparation goes, I have my doubts about whether things like
>discipline and study skills can really be taught. I wonder if they are
>things which can be improved if you already have the temperament -
>which some do not.
My general tendency is to agree with this. As a result I am greatly amused
by the stereotypical comments you sometimes hear about, "he's a good player
but a poor instructor," or "how do I find a good teacher?". That shit cracks
me up. So much of the outcome is entirely and inevitably up to the student
himself.
In every walk of life you'll find self made men who began with nothing and
went on to significant achievement. They stayed motivated. They remained
dedicated and didn't quit. Talent and even intelligence are overrated.
Give me a dedicated guy with a solid work ethic any day. Like they say:
failure follows the path of least persistence. ........joe
Pete Kerezman
wrote:
>He was accepted at a college that had a music department but dropped out
>before Christmas. It doesn't make me feel any better to know that he's
>thirty now and has yet to complete college or accomplish much of anything
>else.
Question is: Is he happy? Is he content with his life? If so,
everything else means squat. If not...
Answer is: Don't be too quick to condemn.
Texas Pete
Joe Finn
>
> Question is: Is he happy? Is he content with his life? If so,
> everything else means squat. If not...
I would say not. This was the type of kid that would tell you how he was
going to rewrite "War and Peace", become rich and famous and other assorted
grandiose nonsense. I thought it was borderline pathological, tortured soul
stuff.
> Answer is: Don't be too quick to condemn.
That's good advice. As an instructor you meet all kinds though. I generally
encourage them to decide what they want to do with their lives before
somebody decides for them. I'm just a music teacher. I'm not there to put
anybody's head back on straight. .....joe
patmp...@gmail.com
Just think, if jazz guitar were a required subject in high school we
wouldn't have these problems.
Seriously, I took two years off before going to college. It was a
very good idea. I found out what the real working world was like. If
I had a child wouldn't send him to college to get him out of my hair
or because everyone else is doing it. If he doesn't want to go, don't
waste my money. Move out and be a dishwasher.
Joe Finn
>
> Just think, if jazz guitar were a required subject in high school we
> wouldn't have these problems.
>
> Seriously, I took two years off before going to college. It was a
> very good idea. I found out what the real working world was like. If
> I had a child wouldn't send him to college to get him out of my hair
> or because everyone else is doing it. If he doesn't want to go, don't
> waste my money. Move out and be a dishwasher.
I'm with you on this. I'm a take-it-or-leave-it guy.
Aut disce aut discede, the old latin saying, loosely translated means: the
world needs plenty of dishwashers. 8-) ...................joe
Joe Finn
"Joe Finn" <J...@JoeFinn.net> wrote in message
news:g0j46s$nqs$1...@news.datemas.de...
P.S. I saw a poster years ago that I absolutely fell in love with. I said
something like this:
Kids, are you sick of your parents and having to follow their stupid
rules?
Get a job!
Move into your own apartment!
Make your own rules!
I still get a kick out of that one. 8-)
JMK
>
> - Show quoted text -
This is true. I'm on the engineering faculty of one of your larger
universities, and I usually don't see students in my class until they
are juniors. At that point they have to have at least a modicum of
discipline just to skate by to reach being a junior.
When I put together my final grades at the end of the semester, it's
interesting to note the correlation between poor exam scores and lack
of homework turned in. Homework is only worth 10% in my class (for
certain cynical reasons), so not turning any in isn't going to kill
your grade. But it's practice for exams, since I generally make my
exams reflect the homework. It takes a lot of discipline to do this,
since I assign it every week. But it's a muscle that you strengthen
and develop, because it takes a lot of practice to solve some of these
problems (particularly with the clock ticking).
Not for nothing is engineering one of the more impacted
(oversubscribed) majors on most campuses. It's perceived as a tough
course of study with good earning potential, and so the parents are
usually gratified to see their education dollars being invested
wisely. If you have enough discipline and moderately talented, you're
more likely to do well than if you are very talented but hopelessly
unfocused or undisciplined. Or insufficiently self-aware to be honest
about what you want out of the educational experience.
These are some of the thoughts that run through my head as I find my
office hours extremely under-utilized, or my 9am class under-attended.
JMK
Joe Finn
>This is true. I'm on the engineering faculty of one of your larger
>universities, and I usually don't see students in my class until they
>are juniors. At that point they have to have at least a modicum of
>discipline just to skate by to reach being a junior.
>When I put together my final grades at the end of the semester, it's
>interesting to note the correlation between poor exam scores and lack
>of homework turned in. Homework is only worth 10% in my class (for
>certain cynical reasons), so not turning any in isn't going to kill
>your grade. But it's practice for exams, since I generally make my
>exams reflect the homework. It takes a lot of discipline to do this,
>since I assign it every week. But it's a muscle that you strengthen
>and develop, because it takes a lot of practice to solve some of these
>problems (particularly with the clock ticking).
>Not for nothing is engineering one of the more impacted
>(oversubscribed) majors on most campuses. It's perceived as a tough
>course of study with good earning potential, and so the parents are
>usually gratified to see their education dollars being invested
>wisely. If you have enough discipline and moderately talented, you're
>more likely to do well than if you are very talented but hopelessly
>unfocused or undisciplined. Or insufficiently self-aware to be honest
>about what you want out of the educational experience.
>These are some of the thoughts that run through my head as I find my
>office hours extremely under-utilized, or my 9am class under-attended.
>JMK
Thanks for your views on this. I like the way you emphasize discipline,
self-awareness, honesty etc. These are key virtues that would have an impact
on the pursuit of a range of endeavors. ........joe