> I don't look at jazz guitar books much any more, since most are aimed > at beginning and intermediate players. I'm interested in hearing about > books that are also stimulating for more advanced musicians. I think > the best books usually have something for players at any level.
Generally, there's something noteworthy, though not earch shaking: It beats reading the sports page.
-- Music is the best means we have of digesting time. -- W. H. Auden
>> Also, practicing/memorizing chord/melody solos develops moving >> positions, since you are forced to move a lot to get decent voice >> leading.
> Precisely my current philosophy. I wish I had done it more over the > past 30 years. I've been hard at it for a year and a half and it has > been a dramatic growth in lots of areas. Lots of changes in my playing > I could never have predicted.
>> Finally, I notice that many of the players who change postions >> effortlessly also hold the LH thumb mover over the edge of the >> fretboard. I think it might lessen the friction which might slow you >> down when shifting. But I havent been able to keep the thumb up in my >> own playing.
> I'm not sure that means anything. These people also tend to use mostly > their first 3 fingers and the 4th only rarely.
> Though I haven't seen any specific member of the "endlessly shifting" > crew that was a democratic 4-finger user, I can't imagine any good > reason their wouldn't be some.
So this thimble-full of conception/distraction has infiltrated my work over the past couple of days. I've mused, as I play, particularly on Raney's "shifty" style, but also that of Wes and others, and the miserly use they make of their fourth finger.
Me, I use my 4th; likely much more than 25%. And my thumb is most frequently dead-center at the back of the neck. So I've been goofing with not using the 4th at all; none. I am forced to splay my 3 fingers (usually between 1st and 2nd), and invariably must shift to accomplish the phrase-logic of improvised lines. Kind of interesting that the three-finger approach necessitates shifting. Of course you could always shift back and pretty much stay "in position", but "following the line" tends to keep you moving elsewhere.
By and large, I am a positional player; I do what I need in a single position, and when I need to move elsewhere, which is frequent, I move to another neck-wide position. Within these positions, of course, I am alwasy working with smaller nests of "sub-positions", if you will. But contextually they are a part of an image of a larger neck-wide position. How much reference do I make of the larger position? Not much, but it's almost always there.
So now I find that while using the 3-finger "shifty" approach I don't treat it the same conceptually. My references tend more to the sub-position (3-4 strings/4-6 frets range) in ceaseless transition to other sub-positions. As I continue to do this the larger neck-wide context is diminished--almost disregarded.
That's a very interesting change of perspective made possible by a very small adjustment (dropping the 4th finger). It's not problematic for me to do this, but after doing it for a few minutes I realize that I am really doing a cognitive thing; I have to focus to keep this up, to know where I am and where I'm going. Certainly if I do this a lot, I know that would go away with constant use, but it's fun anyway.
One of the "fun" aspects is that by using 3 fingers and frequent shifting I'm also emphasizing articulation more--the process just demands more slide-slurring, and other "punctuation" in my phrases.
Comparitively, when I'm in 4-finger/6-fret position work there is less opportunity for lots of articulation, particulary sliding, because one is always "locked" to the position. I think there is more opportunity for pull/hammer slurring in the neck-wide positioning, but in the sub-position approach I find the pull/hammer slurring has more specific personality and intent than neck-wide which can stray to reflexive cliche. [ This is me I'm talking about not others. ]
Very interesting brain tickling going on here.
-- Music is the best means we have of digesting time. -- W. H. Auden
I just realized that if I sit in the normal poisition with guitar on lap then I play with the left hand thumb in the higher position as well as lean toward 3 fingerdom.
Usually my guitar neck is at a 45ish degree angle on a strap which facilitates chord work for me.
The position I play(sit /stand) seems to dictate the ideas I get oddly enough, but
I'm more interested in Chords/Voice leading etc. so I mainly keep the neck high.
Bg
> I would appreciate your opinion on it. I don't look at jazz guitar > books much any more, since most are aimed at beginning and intermediate > players.
This is aimed at beginning and intermediate players.
> I'm interested in hearing about books that are also stimulating for > more advanced musicians. I think the best books usually have something > for players at any level.
I don't know how stimulating it will be yet, as I only got it this morning. I've skimmed through it and it does not seem to make any concerted effort to address "vertical" (recently indicated as "circular") activity. Early in the book he spends a couple of pages indicating where a triad would be fond in four areas of the neck and then mentions "extensions and related fingerings through the four areas" of the fretboard. Five pages of fingerings and clarification.
I've only skimmed the rest but it doesn't really seem to address the topic I had hoped it would address: Shifty, phrase-oriented movement on the neck.
It does look like it will be generally entertaining reading, though.
It's likely worth the $14 I paid for a couple afternoons of entertainment.
More later.
-- Music is the best means we have of digesting time. -- W. H. Auden
On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:06:54 PM UTC-4, thomas wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:17:58 PM UTC-4, Gerry wrote:
> > On 2012-10-04 19:24:13 +0000, thomas said:
> > > I would appreciate your opinion on it. I don't look at jazz guitar
> > > books much any more, since most are aimed at beginning and intermediate
> > > players.
> > This is aimed at beginning and intermediate players.
> > > I'm interested in hearing about books that are also stimulating for
> > > more advanced musicians. I think the best books usually have something
> > > for players at any level.
> > I don't know how stimulating it will be yet, as I only got it this
> > morning. I've skimmed through it and it does not seem to make any
> > concerted effort to address "vertical" (recently indicated as
> > "circular") activity. Early in the book he spends a couple of pages
> > indicating where a triad would be fond in four areas of the neck and
> > then mentions "extensions and related fingerings through the four
> > areas" of the fretboard. Five pages of fingerings and clarification.
> > I've only skimmed the rest but it doesn't really seem to address the
> > topic I had hoped it would address: Shifty, phrase-oriented movement
> > on the neck.
> > It does look like it will be generally entertaining reading, though.
> > It's likely worth the $14 I paid for a couple afternoons of
> > entertainment.
> > More later.
> Thanks. Sounds like learning some Wes or Raney solos might be a better route.
Sure, but learning improvs from non guitar criteria poses an even better ( or a strong parallel) route. You will see that. When I was a kid learning, besides copying the greats of jazz guitar, piano, sax, trumpet; I copied lines of Ravi Shankar (he sent me a beautiful laudatory quote for my method book). And *that* did amazing things for my chops (and ears).
> Thanks. Sounds like learning some Wes or Raney solos might be a better route.
Undoubtedly. I just wondered if there was somebody who had an overarching perspective on the process.
-- Music is the best means we have of digesting time. -- W. H. Auden
On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:34:27 PM UTC-4, TD wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:06:54 PM UTC-4, thomas wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:17:58 PM UTC-4, Gerry wrote:
> > > On 2012-10-04 19:24:13 +0000, thomas said:
> > > > I would appreciate your opinion on it. I don't look at jazz guitar
> > > > books much any more, since most are aimed at beginning and intermediate
> > > > players.
> > > This is aimed at beginning and intermediate players.
> > > > I'm interested in hearing about books that are also stimulating for
> > > > more advanced musicians. I think the best books usually have something
> > > > for players at any level.
> > > I don't know how stimulating it will be yet, as I only got it this
> > > morning. I've skimmed through it and it does not seem to make any
> > > concerted effort to address "vertical" (recently indicated as
> > > "circular") activity. Early in the book he spends a couple of pages
> > > indicating where a triad would be fond in four areas of the neck and
> > > then mentions "extensions and related fingerings through the four
> > > areas" of the fretboard. Five pages of fingerings and clarification.
> > > I've only skimmed the rest but it doesn't really seem to address the
> > > topic I had hoped it would address: Shifty, phrase-oriented movement
> > > on the neck.
> > > It does look like it will be generally entertaining reading, though.
> > > It's likely worth the $14 I paid for a couple afternoons of
> > > entertainment.
> > > More later.
> > Thanks. Sounds like learning some Wes or Raney solos might be a better route.
> Sure, but learning improvs from non guitar criteria poses an even better ( or a strong parallel) route. You will see that. When I was a kid learning, besides copying the greats of jazz guitar, piano, sax, trumpet; I copied lines of Ravi Shankar (he sent me a beautiful laudatory quote for my method book). And *that* did amazing things for my chops (and ears).
Part II:
It is a common mistake to presume that certain things are learned, assimilated and utilized off of a mono-dimensional plane: Shear mimicry and reading the usual suspects of what is supposed to be, all from a book. Fingerings are akin to walking, skipping, swimming, climbing, hiking, jumping, standing, sitting; ad infinitum. It builds off strategies. It responds off of what the ear hears and what the emotion yields. It becomes *personal*. It is about a mixture of basic and adjusted fingerings. Merely watching the fingerings of heroes won't easily get the biscuit, because those fellows used their ears and *personal* adaptations. There is much more to this, although it can very well be a good thing to study fingering strategies of other players. This might be like trying to improve ones chess game. Everything must be compassed around the ear. If the Earth was the fingering and the Sun was the ear...
On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:34:27 PM UTC-4, TD wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:06:54 PM UTC-4, thomas wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:17:58 PM UTC-4, Gerry wrote:
> > > On 2012-10-04 19:24:13 +0000, thomas said:
> > > > I would appreciate your opinion on it. I don't look at jazz guitar
> > > > books much any more, since most are aimed at beginning and intermediate
> > > > players.
> > > This is aimed at beginning and intermediate players.
> > > > I'm interested in hearing about books that are also stimulating for
> > > > more advanced musicians. I think the best books usually have something
> > > > for players at any level.
> > > I don't know how stimulating it will be yet, as I only got it this
> > > morning. I've skimmed through it and it does not seem to make any
> > > concerted effort to address "vertical" (recently indicated as
> > > "circular") activity. Early in the book he spends a couple of pages
> > > indicating where a triad would be fond in four areas of the neck and
> > > then mentions "extensions and related fingerings through the four
> > > areas" of the fretboard. Five pages of fingerings and clarification.
> > > I've only skimmed the rest but it doesn't really seem to address the
> > > topic I had hoped it would address: Shifty, phrase-oriented movement
> > > on the neck.
> > > It does look like it will be generally entertaining reading, though.
> > > It's likely worth the $14 I paid for a couple afternoons of
> > > entertainment.
> > > More later.
> > Thanks. Sounds like learning some Wes or Raney solos might be a better route.
> Sure, but learning improvs from non guitar criteria poses an even better ( or a strong parallel) route. You will see that. When I was a kid learning, besides copying the greats of jazz guitar, piano, sax, trumpet; I copied lines of Ravi Shankar (he sent me a beautiful laudatory quote for my method book). And *that* did amazing things for my chops (and ears).>
Great idea. I can see how learning a solo originally played on a one or two-string instrument would open up new vistas.
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:00:27 AM UTC-4, thomas wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:34:27 PM UTC-4, TD wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:06:54 PM UTC-4, thomas wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:17:58 PM UTC-4, Gerry wrote:
> > > > On 2012-10-04 19:24:13 +0000, thomas said:
> > > > > I would appreciate your opinion on it. I don't look at jazz guitar
> > > > > books much any more, since most are aimed at beginning and intermediate
> > > > > players.
> > > > This is aimed at beginning and intermediate players.
> > > > > I'm interested in hearing about books that are also stimulating for
> > > > > more advanced musicians. I think the best books usually have something
> > > > > for players at any level.
> > > > I don't know how stimulating it will be yet, as I only got it this
> > > > morning. I've skimmed through it and it does not seem to make any
> > > > concerted effort to address "vertical" (recently indicated as
> > > > "circular") activity. Early in the book he spends a couple of pages
> > > > indicating where a triad would be fond in four areas of the neck and
> > > > then mentions "extensions and related fingerings through the four
> > > > areas" of the fretboard. Five pages of fingerings and clarification.
> > > > I've only skimmed the rest but it doesn't really seem to address the
> > > > topic I had hoped it would address: Shifty, phrase-oriented movement
> > > > on the neck.
> > > > It does look like it will be generally entertaining reading, though.
> > > > It's likely worth the $14 I paid for a couple afternoons of
> > > > entertainment.
> > > > More later.
> > > Thanks. Sounds like learning some Wes or Raney solos might be a better route.
> > Sure, but learning improvs from non guitar criteria poses an even better ( or a strong parallel) route. You will see that. When I was a kid learning, besides copying the greats of jazz guitar, piano, sax, trumpet; I copied lines of Ravi Shankar (he sent me a beautiful laudatory quote for my method book). And *that* did amazing things for my chops (and ears).>
> Great idea. I can see how learning a solo originally played on a one or two-string instrument would open up new vistas.
Well, along with the foreign type *lines* as well, thus eliminating the ear's usual sense of criteria.
