Why do we have to get more powerful amps and play so loud?
guitarannie
OK, except Joey Baron. He played with Lenny Breau at Dante's.
He played a solo with his fingertips.
He was also booked 2 years in advance because he could play so
quietly.
I also play with a Big Band Drummer named Bob Beck, who said when he
was starting out in the 40's the Bandleader told him "Drummers should
be seen and not heard"
SAS
sheetsofsound
lots of drummers can play quietly. They just don't have fun doing it.
Jon Fox
news:d377a30b-efc6-4b68...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
I've got a duo gig with a trumpet player tonight in a small, live room. I'm
hoping he can be quiet, as well....
--
*************************************
Jon Fox
Instructor of Commercial Music
McLennan Community College
www.jonfoxjazz.com
ecj
always escalates the volume. I think they have trouble hearing what
they are playing over the drums and then end up cranking it up. This
causes the guitar or keyboard player to crank up a little which then
gives the drummer his/her cue to smash things harder. Then the bass
player can't hear himself again, and...
At this point, the poor horn players are left twiddling their fingers
and trying to imagine what they are playing inside their heads since
no one can hear anything but noise anymore.
This is why I kind of like playing with singers. Everyone has to keep
things low enough for them to hear what they are doing.
Nate Najar
>
> lots of drummers can play quietly. They just don't have fun doing it.
except chuck redd.... when he and i do trio gigs together we always
comment on how nice it is to play so quietly!
N
dwabeslim
the best sound is when the bassist barely uses amplification. One can
hear the bass itself and the amp just adds a little spread to the
sound. If we all play to that we get a sound.
Jack does have a point though about drummers not enjoying
playing acoustic[young ones in particular]
As We all know, most players ,when confronting a noisy
audience /room the best plan is to turn down even more which usually
calms the room and then one can find a level.
Hope everyone had a Cool Yule and
Happy New Year.
Bg
time) and to do it quietly.
I've only met a very few guys that have that kind of control!
Bg
Chickenhead
Joe Finn
news:7ae89e73-95fe-4881...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
The best drummers are the best listeners. If you have a guy that plays so
loud that he can't hear you it's a problem. You can't really have a good
group improvisational dynamic without a reasonable overall balance. Anybody
that overbalances the band is a problem to that extent. Most players find a
good blend intuitively but there are times when this issue must be addressed
by the bandleader. ...joe
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
rpjazzguitar
I play with one multihorn player who is a sensitive and caring player
on soprano, tenor, bari, flute and clarinet. But, when he plays alto,
he can be louder than everybody else in the room, combined. It's
impossible to play quietly.
Drummers are often the problem. I find that even when the drummer is
loudly protesting that he's playing really quietly, I may still think
he's too loud. I play with several drummers in a room with a grand
piano. I set up with my head next to the open top (so I can hear the
piano) and sometimes I can't hear it over the drums. How the heck can
the drummer hear it?
I'm not sure about electric bassists. I've played with several who
turn up so loud the bass dominates the band. But most try to blend in.
My usual problem with acoustic bass is that, depending on the room,
there can be so much general rumble that it's hard to tell one note
from another.
I don't see the point of a big amp. There's a point where you can get
so loud that, where you're sitting close to your amp, you drown out
the other players. It seems to me that there's a volume point beyond
which your group needs a PA so that the stage volume can be
manageable. This is doubly true when you have to play in a room where
you can't set up in a way that makes it easy for everybody to hear
each other.
Joe Finn
news:hhj171$p8s$1...@news.datemas.de...
p.s. I cannot remember having to play with the kind of drummers you refer to
very often. I think somebody playing too loud is a sign of musical
immaturity. .....joe
tom walls
<kuNOrtSPAMshapTHANK...@YOUhoVERYtmail.MUCHcom> wrote:
> Because "the terrorists attacked us on September the 11th."
Good call!
David J. Littleboy
"guitarannie" <guita...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Drummers.
Nah. It's venues that are too cheap to mic everything correctly.
--
David J. Littleboy
Who has no trouble with a Henriksen 10R and a 12-piece big band...
Tokyo, Japan
Bg
With a large banc like that I don't see the need to mic everybody,
just the soloist, and keep the rythm section down.
Once everybody is miced, you're at the mercy of the soundman's taste,
and there Are not many left that know what the different instruments
sound like, so they boost the bass and the drums?
Bg
Ron H
interesting, you're not interesting. So throw your horn away and run for
office....
guitarannie
<kuNOrtSPAMshapTHANK...@YOUhoVERYtmail.MUCHcom> wrote:
> Because "the terrorists attacked us on September the 11th."
LOL You betcha!
Gizmo
We're bombarded with so much noise at all times, that as a society
we've cranked up the volume in all aspects of life.
drthoma...@gmail.com
<kuNOrtSPAMshapTHANK...@YOUhoVERYtmail.MUCHcom> wrote:
> Because "the terrorists attacked us on September the 11th."
...because they hate us for our freedoms.
David J. Littleboy
"Bg" <ott...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 31, 12:55 pm, "David J. Littleboy" <davi...@gol.com> wrote:
> "guitarannie" <guitaran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Drummers.
>
> Nah. It's venues that are too cheap to mic everything correctly.
>
> --
> David J. Littleboy
> Who has no trouble with a Henriksen 10R and a 12-piece big band...
> Tokyo, Japan
With a large banc like that I don't see the need to mic everybody,
just the soloist, and keep the rythm section down.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Depends on the room size. But I don't think 12 is a "large band". Real big
bands have four trombones, we only have one :(.
>>>>>>>>>>
Once everybody is miced, you're at the mercy of the soundman's taste,
and there Are not many left that know what the different instruments
sound like, so they boost the bass and the drums?
<<<<<<<<<<
One of our regular (twice a year) gigs is backing an Enka singer in big
rooms (she sings a couple of standards and lets us play a few big band
classics as well), it's her show so she gets what she wants. They put like 7
mics on the drum set alone. During the sound check, I always forget to crank
up from practice to performance levels, so the guitar amp is always mic'ed
way too hot and I can't use it as my private monitor. Oops.
For medium size rooms (without the Enka singer), we do what you suggest: a
couple of solo mics for over the saxes (so that they can use them when they
stand) which triple as overall mics when the players are all sitting and
also as trumpet mics when a trumpet solos (although not all that necessary).
Works fine. Guitar and drums not mic'ed, but piano and bass are.
For low-rent gigs, we don't use a sound system.
--
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
jimmybruno
Loud audience members
Jonathan (Cleve)
>
> Loud audience members
That's the real answer. Before the Bop Stop went out of business from
bad vibing noisy patrons they had a quiet policy. You could hear every
note at a very modest volume.
No need to play loud there, but then there's that whole no business
thing.
Jazzer
<ji...@jimmybruno.com> wrote:
>Loud audience members
Come on Jimmy you know that's nonsense!
And teachers need to bring in loud PA systems into their classes when
their students start to get loud too?
You don't fight with the audience. If they're not interested in you,
blasting them with louder music won't change their minds.
Gregg L
"Jonathan (Cleve)" <jgi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ab901d79-c99c-4566...@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
*****************************************
Catalina's in Hollywood, CA is a great place for live jazz. Very attentive
appreciative audiences, only noisy when appropriate! Only had one visit in
a decade when someone was talking, and that was during Kenny Garrett's set.
Mgr couldn't see or hear it, so I "made him an offer he couldn't refuse."
Only thing making it not so great for some is cover and minimum, but when I
look at what people are paying to see minimally talented players in
stadiums, I look at Catalina's as a bargain. But even for us it needs to be
budgeted-we're not nearly the regulars we once were. Still, a 2nd set and a
couple drinks, you could get out for $40-50 and catch Kenny Burrell, Ellis
and Delfeayo Marsalis, Mike Stern, or Victor Wooten for ex.
Gregg
hw
"David J. Littleboy" <dav...@gol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:M7mdnSzK4asCkqDW...@giganews.com...
offering my usual minority opinion. i love loud and active drummers. i also
think that most horn players these days just can't produce a decent tone.
(maybe the mic'ing made them lazy). i once stood next to charles mcpherson
and he was *loud*. three times as loud as any horn player i had previously
heard. a tone as huge as a house. you don't hear that with the young
players.
David J. Littleboy
"hw" <nob...@home.net> wrote:
> "David J. Littleboy" <dav...@gol.com> schrieb:
>> "guitarannie" <guita...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Drummers.
>>
>> Nah. It's venues that are too cheap to mic everything correctly.
>
Hehe. It takes all kinds. My craziness is that I like loud bass players. I
hate quiet bass players that you can't hear but that think they're being all
artsy and subtle. Grumph.
> i also think that most horn players these days just can't produce a decent
> tone. (maybe the mic'ing made them lazy). i once stood next to charles
> mcpherson and he was *loud*. three times as loud as any horn player i had
> previously heard. a tone as huge as a house. you don't hear that with the
> young players.
The horns in my big band (average age: 77!) are loud. I can't hear myself
think when they're warming up. Every once in a while one will let out a
squawk when I'm in front of them, and it hurts. Ouch.
zepa
> Drummers.
>
> OK, except Joey Baron. He played with Lenny Breau at Dante's.
> He played a solo with his fingertips.
> He was also booked 2 years in advance because he could play so
> quietly.
Paul Motian.
Well, Paul plays the guitar too. Perhaps that explains. :-)
ZP
Tim McNamara
wrote:
Singers, too. Too few of them learn how to project and as a result
stick the mike right up against their face, resulting in breath noises,
lip noises, etc. Watch Ella and the mike was usually 6-12 inches away
from her face. My observation of attempted jazz singers is that most of
them seem to have never taken voice lessons.
And guitarists, for that matter. Those who learn on electric guitar
usually can't play an acoustic very well because their touch is too
light and they get used to .009s so they lack hand strength to deal with
the strings necessary for a good acoustic sound. That seems less true
for archtop players, more true for solidbody players.
The horn players I play with are (1) all older than 40 and (2) almost
never miked. Most sound fine. One bari sax player is hard to hear at
times but I'm not sure if that's the register of his horn in the mix of
instruments versus his power to project. I dunno beans about playing a
horn.
--
"I wear the cheese, it does not wear me."
Jazzer
How about this clip (mentioned here before in another context) ?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om6HDUKBbzE
John Mclaughlin sitting in front of the Johnny Carson big band
orchestra, with a friggin' ACOUSTIC guitar!
So much for the "powerful amps and playing loudly" strategy!