For all you Taylor Guitar Haters
jca...@my-deja.com
seems he wants/needs you to hate his guitars. It is a very interesting
interview, chech it out.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Features/BobTaylor/00index.html
"As they say, "a rising tide floats all the boats." Would you be doing
Harmony Central if I was the only guy making guitars? No. How thick could an
acoustic guitar magazine be if I was the only one making guitars? It would be
very thin. I need to be part of an industry to survive. I can't be a
monopoly. I can't fuel a world of guitar players. I need all the controversy.
I need people to hate our guitars. I need all of that. That's what makes it
all wo
Sent via Deja.com
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Norman Draper
jca...@my-deja.com wrote in message <92qifm$9s1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>The quote below is from a Harmony Central interview with Bob Taylor. It
>seems he wants/needs you to hate his guitars. It is a very interesting
>interview, chech it out.
>http://www.harmony-central.com/Features/BobTaylor/00index.html
Interesting..... His favorite builder is Bill Collings..... At least
he has good taste in the guitars of OTHERS..... :-)
I am one of many who doesn't hate either Bob Taylor or his guitars....
As he said, he couldn't build a guitar with the Martin sound, the sound I
prefer.... If he could have, he would have, he stated.... I wonder why he
couldn't, and how Misters Collings and Hoover have turned it into such a
cottage industry.....
I really do think that Bob Taylor was the tide that raised all boats.
He came along and rattled more than a few cages in what appeared to be a
staid industry. I think he got the Martin Guitar Company up off its lazy
duff and, as a result, Martin is building much better guitars. I'm guessing
that Taylor has had an impact in one way or another on most of the
steel-string guitar builders....
Anyone ever heard any stories about some strangeness at his factory? I
read somewhere that Mr. Taylor's ego is boundless.....
Norman Draper
Joe Jordan
> Anyone ever heard any stories about some strangeness at his factory? I
>read somewhere that Mr. Taylor's ego is boundless.....
I'll bet Jamie Kinscherff could tell a story or two...
Joe
____________________________
Joe D. Jordan, Ph.D.
Mobile, AL
Ed and Cori
with Pierre... (Grin)
I think "staid" is an understatement. Boring and complacent is more like it.
I'm neither a Bob Taylor lover or hater. I like the Taylor I play. There are
lots I don't. Taylor guitars came along and made a new guitar. Then, they made
(make) very nice guitars available in a wide range of prices which _typically_
sound good and play well regardless of the price range. Now and then there are
real gems. Now Larrivee has come along and filled some more of those
(previously) empty price slots with high quality guitars.
I'd also say that in the search for products to fill the price slots Taylor had,
Martin came up with some real undesirable guitars (imo). These were probably
decisions made by marketers and not luthiers. They are Martin and I guess they
felt they should have guitars in these price ranges. Again, imo, they are
inferior guitars from every standpoint... materials, sound, etc.
To compare Martin, or Taylor, or any of the "biggies" to the small shops like
Collings, Kinescherrf (sp?), etc. is ludicrous. Overall, these companies are
aiming at completely different markets (and to some extent I'd say different
guitar needs).
As far as BT's ego? Who cares? I'd rather play the guitars than worry about
who's name is on 'em or who else plays 'em.
Ed
Norman Draper wrote:
>
Some snippage...
>
> I really do think that Bob Taylor was the tide that raised all boats.
> He came along and rattled more than a few cages in what appeared to be a
> staid industry. I think he got the Martin Guitar Company up off its lazy
> duff and, as a result, Martin is building much better guitars. I'm guessing
> that Taylor has had an impact in one way or another on most of the
> steel-string guitar builders....
> Anyone ever heard any stories about some strangeness at his factory? I
> read somewhere that Mr. Taylor's ego is boundless.....
>
> Norman Draper
--
Ed Edelenbos and Cori Rivers
and the 3 terrors; Ursula, Beatrix, and Rufus
What, 3 kids and I'm supposed to get to a homepage?
Jerry Dallal
: As he said, he couldn't build a guitar with the Martin sound, the sound I
: prefer.... If he could have, he would have, he stated.... I wonder why he
: couldn't, and how Misters Collings and Hoover have turned it into such a
: cottage industry.....
The more I play my SCGCs, the more I'm convinced they sound less like
Martins and more what vintage Martins *should* sound like.
Hojo2x
> Anyone ever heard any stories about some strangeness at his factory? I>read
somewhere that Mr. Taylor's ego is boundless.....
Norm, I've never met Bob Taylor and have never cultivated any connection,
because his guitars don't speak to me the way some other makes do. But even
without reading that interview I knew he had a good-sized ego, and the
interview just confirmed it.
But you know what? ALL of these guys building guitars have big egos. It goes
with the territory.
Some of them are cooler about it than others, but all of them have got the same
sort of out-sized egos that performers have. They just perform on a different
stage, so to speak, one where it's more rewarding to appear to be an aw-shucks
regular kinda guy.
But the ego is there, or they couldn't do what they do. In any branch of the
arts, whether you're about playing instruments, building instruments, painting,
origami or flower-arranging - if that sense of self-worth isn't there, it's
very difficult to continue with it.
As for wierdness at his factory, I wouldn't know or care, either one.
I will say this - there are a lot of wannabes who go to work for guitar
companies, people with ambitions and egos of their own. Some of them have the
ability and drive to make on their own once they've served an apprenticeship
and then left a firm, but a great many don't.
Given the hard work and often fairly low pay in a guitar factory, it's probably
surprising that they don't generate more disgruntled employees than they do.
So I'd take any rumors like that with a grain of salt.
Put another way, most self-made men are a real pain in the ass to work for.
But they're the boss, and in Bob Taylor's case it's HIS name going out on the
product.
So some ego and displays of temperment are understandable, I think. (If anyone
has an industry-wide reputation for that sort of thing it's Bill Collings, not
Bob Taylor. But, again, if you look at HIS company's phenomenal consistency,
it's not hard to understand why he'd want to protect that.)
So that's how I see it, anyway.
Wade Hampton Miller
jca...@my-deja.com
seen and articles he's written he seems to be a very nice guy, but who knows
what anyone is like behind the public personae. His company has done alot to
bring about the golden age of lutherie that we now live in. I'm happy they
are around and also happy that the number of quality guitar builders, both
small shop and large has increased. Competition is good for us players.
Gee, which one to buy next.
Jim
In article <92qmv7$6jui$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com>,
Tor Arntsen
[...]
>But the ego is there, or they couldn't do what they do. In any branch of the
>arts, whether you're about playing instruments, building instruments, painting,
>origami or flower-arranging - if that sense of self-worth isn't there, it's
>very difficult to continue with it.
You're probably right about that, Wade. It depends a bit on what you
define as "ego" though, I think people put different definitions into it.
Some think "lots of self confidence and not afraid to show it" (which I
think is close to what you are talking about), others think
"general bastard with no empathy" which I'm pretty sure *not* what
your're talking about.
Some 20-25 years ago I was into sports, I remember I had what could
probably be called "ego" in spades back then -- as an example I could
be genuinely impressed by someone's sprint abilities and then go on
telling people about this fast guy -- "he must be one of the best I've
ever seen", I could say. But at the same time I never doubted that I
could beat him in a sprint and would just say "sure" if someone asked.
All of us probably had that kind of "ego", if you didn't then you
wouldn't achieve much. We 'inside' the sport never felt this kind
of thinking as self-worshipping or hubris, we really thought of it
as completely factual, discussing your own abilities felt like discussing
the color of your clothes.
However, this kind of "ego" didn't *necessarily* (although it did for
some :-) leak into the rest of our social lifes.. I was as humble and
reluctant about my guitar playing back then as I am now :-)
Just to conclude what I tried to say I'll quote you again:
>But the ego is there, or they couldn't do what they do. In any branch of the
>arts, whether you're about playing instruments, building instruments, painting,
>origami or flower-arranging - if that sense of self-worth isn't there, it's
>very difficult to continue with it.
Exactly.
-Tor
jca...@my-deja.com
coming from Taylor guitars gets more than a bit obnoxious. Taylor and Listug
have obviously worked very hard to achieve their success and they aren't shy
about saying that they make great guitars, they've done wonderful things for
the industry, they have a great company and on and on. Any issue of Wood and
Steel is full of the stuff. What I like is that I have never heard them
denigrate any other make of guitar. In fact, when people write in to say
they sold their (whatever brand of guitar) to buy a Taylor and that it is
wonderful, they omit the name of the other brand. However, despite the
hyperbole, they do make good guitars, there is quite a bit of useful
information in wood and steel on such issues as humidty, how they build their
guitars, etc. and they have a wonderful series of guitar clinics all over the
US and some foreign spots as well. Taylor has lots to be proud of and isn't
afraid to show it. I have no problem with that. I'm sure there's lots of
gossip about him. No one gains that amount of success without gaining a few
enemies along the way, or making tongues wag because of controversial
decisions.
jcarp
In article <3Pl46.6355$v46.2...@news1.oke.nextra.no>,
Greg Thomas
> The quote below is from a Harmony Central interview with Bob Taylor. It
> seems he wants/needs you to hate his guitars. It is a very interesting
> interview, chech it out.
> http://www.harmony-central.com/Features/BobTaylor/00index.html
I don't understand the hate some people have for Bob Taylor and his guitars.
I own a Taylor, which is for sale, which I bought last year. After playing
it for a few months, I found the sound wasn't for me. I don't hate the
guitar, don't hate the builder. Maybe Mr. Taylor's approach to marketing is
what fuels the hate. Interestingly enough, his marketing approach doesn't
change the sound of his guitars . . . Okay, maybe it's the *way* he builds
guitars. Sure, that must be it. It shouldn't be legal to have a bolt on
neck, gives him an unfair advantage, being more efficient. And then does he
lower his price? Nooooooo.
I think those are the major reasons people hate Taylor(s). My response: grow
up and get over it. I personally prefer the Martin type of sound: dark and
woody, as opposed to the Taylor sound (more trebly.) And that is what
determines the guitar I play: how it sounds. If we judged, oh, say,
Beethoven on his character, nobody would listen to the guy's music.
Fortunately, we judge his music on its own merits. You'd think *musicians*
of all people would be able to do that.
Greg
Folkners
wearing a Taylor hat or T-shirt. I about barf everytime I read the letters in
Wood & Steel. Taylor owners are so gushy...I'm embarrassed by association!
cjpark1
If you are proud of your guitar you should show it. I'm still waiting
for Jim Chelsvig to send me my T-shirt. It has Bozo on the front and
some kind of circular design like a target on the back.
Charles (Checking the mail everyday) Park
Folkners: If you don't understand any of this just take a couple of
aspirin and put a cold compress on your head and rest.
Ed and Cori
photo of yourself and... oh, you mean a different Bozo. And, you don't need a
target on your back, I see several knives pointed at it already.
Ed
PS: disclaimer... With a name like Edelenbos, I'm allowed to take a cheap shot at
names now and then. No offense intended towards Mr. P.
cjpark1 wrote:
>
> If you are proud of your guitar you should show it. I'm still waiting
> for Jim Chelsvig to send me my T-shirt. It has Bozo on the front and
> some kind of circular design like a target on the back.
>
> Charles (Checking the mail everyday) Park
>
> Folkners: If you don't understand any of this just take a couple of
> aspirin and put a cold compress on your head and rest.
--
JD Blackwell
cjpark1 <cjp...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3A536837...@home.com...
>
>
> Folkners wrote:
> >
> > I own a beautiful Taylor 812-C, and I love it, BUT I wouldn't be caught
dead
> > wearing a Taylor hat or T-shirt. I about barf everytime I read the
letters in
> > Wood & Steel. Taylor owners are so gushy...I'm embarrassed by
association!
>
> If you are proud of your guitar you should show it. I'm still waiting
> for Jim Chelsvig to send me my T-shirt. It has Bozo on the front and
> some kind of circular design like a target on the back.
>
> Charles (Checking the mail everyday) Park
>
be cool, however our national past-time of paying big bucks for the
privilege of displaying corporate logos (Taylor, Martin, Tommy Hilfiger, and
Harley Davidson to name a few) suggests that perhaps our choice of guitars
(clothes or motorcycles) is driven more by lifestyle choice in a pathetic
attempt to buy self-esteem than anything else. I've owned a couple of
standout Taylors but I won't be sporting Taylorware until Uncle Bob sends a
fat check for advertising fees. Likewise as the owner of a '57 HD panhead, I
don't have any trademark black HD T-shirts that the wannabes favor.
JD
jca...@my-deja.com
have bought for myself. I tried to wear it at EC 3 last year just to bug the
those that love to disparage Taylor, but it was too damn hot. I will hope
for better weather at EC IV.
jcarp
In article <3A536837...@home.com>,
Marge
Well, as an owner of 3 Taylor guitars, I am proud to wear my Taylor
hat, my Taylor pin, and my Taylor t-shirt. I figure I worked hard for
the money I used to buy those guitars and that purchase (especially of
the first one) has a very special personal significance for me. I don't
consider my fondmess for my guitars as "gushing", yet I feel so
grateful that I have these wonderful instruments. Of course, I would
probably feel the same way if they were another companies guitars. It
just happens to be Taylors that I love. Perhaps, I've just reached a
place in my life, that I really don't care what others think about what
I do. I'm the one who has to live with the consequences. It took me a
long time to learn to lighten up. I refuse to be "embarassed" by such
mundane things as manufacturer memorabilia. Live and let live!
MAKE it a great day!!!
Marge
"If you always do what you've always done,
you'll always get what you've always got."
Cited in BITS & PIECES
jca...@my-deja.com
wear the t-shirt and hat and we will play our Taylor guitars. Oh wait, the
metal buttons on the jacket will scratch my beautiful koa Taylor. I'll wear
the jacket to the session and back home but take it off while playing, ok???
jcarp
In article <93236q$b9j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Godzilla
> Well, as an owner of 3 Taylor guitars, I am proud to wear my Taylor
> hat, my Taylor pin, and my Taylor t-shirt. I figure I worked hard for
> the money I used to buy those guitars and that purchase (especially of
> the first one) has a very special personal significance for me. I don't
> consider my fondmess for my guitars as "gushing", yet I feel so
> grateful that I have these wonderful instruments. Of course, I would
> probably feel the same way if they were another companies guitars. It
> just happens to be Taylors that I love. Perhaps, I've just reached a
> place in my life, that I really don't care what others think about what
> I do. I'm the one who has to live with the consequences. It took me a
> long time to learn to lighten up. I refuse to be "embarassed" by such
> mundane things as manufacturer memorabilia. Live and let live!
I have a Taylor t-shirt that I wear. I also wear a Martin t-shirt and a
Fender t-shirt, although not all three at the same time. I figure it's good
for the guitar industry in general. I'd wear other guitar brand name t-shirts
if I had them. In case anyone would like to send some to me, I wear an XL.
mcd
"move the margins to the center"
the_tro...@my-deja.com
jb
In article <aaZ46.511$h51....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
"JD Blackwell" <jd.bla...@gte.net> wrote:
Likewise as the owner of a '57 HD panhead,
> JD
Marge
jca...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Marge you are a wise woman. Let's get together. I'll wear that
jacket, you
> wear the t-shirt and hat and we will play our Taylor guitars. Oh
wait, the
> metal buttons on the jacket will scratch my beautiful koa Taylor.
I'll wear
> the jacket to the session and back home but take it off while
playing, ok???
>
> jcarp
>
Sure! Two Taylor Koas should sound great! The weather is much milder in
Wisconsin today. It's all of 35 degrees. Seems downright balmy after
the cold stuff we've had. I doubt you'll be too warm in your Taylor
jacket though. You are welcome to come. Bring your skis as I'm about 2
miles from a downhill ski area, and there is great crosscountry skiing
close by. Now, where is THAT Taylor hat? I wish I had a jacket, too. I
think I want to get one of those Taylor guitar straps next.
MAKE it a great day!!!
Marge
Any man who knows all the answers most likely misunderstood the
questions.
jca...@my-deja.com
Sounds like a great invite but Wisconsin is a bit far from the DC area,
especially with the kind of weather we are having this winter. Just come on
over to EC IV in May and we'll wear the apparel and pick the heck out of
those Taylors.
Jcarp
In article <9354n4$veo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Tom from Texas
>The weather is much milder in
>Wisconsin today. It's all of 35 degrees. Seems downright balmy after
>the cold stuff we've had.
Sounds like its too cold to cut cheese in Wisconsin. Texas just came out from
under a sheet of ice. Next couple of days it's supposed to be a high in the
mid 50s.
BBBrrrrrrrr
Tom (reaching for the sweaters and wool long johns) from Texas
MKarlo
day!!!
Marge <
I received the Taylor mug and strap as gifts. The mug is actually pretty nice
as the handle lets my gorilla hand in there. The strap is the nicest one I've
ever had. Already cut to fit the larger end pin when you have electronics too.
I'm not into buying the stuff, but I'll gladly accept them as gifts all day
long. Anybody want to buy me the denim jacket? Size XXL please.
Mitch
"Restore Beauty Where There Is Ugliness."
Tom from Texas
> I'm not into buying the stuff, but I'll gladly accept them as gifts all day
>long. Anybody want to buy me the denim jacket? Size XXL please.
>
another member. This is definitely against all levels of decorum and manners.
How could anyone be so ill-mannered as to do such a thing. Mitch and all like
him should be banned from RMMGA then have all their instruments and music
paraphenalia confiscated.
The Tom Risner Fund for Deserving North Texas Guitarplayers would like to
donate it time, resources and facilities to this worthy endeavor.
Tom (I just do this for the good of others) from Texas
Hussman
marketing? I think the workshops are a good idea, their website is
extremely informative, what's to hate?
BTW, I'm happy with mine, I paid less than the list price (as everyone does,
I'm sure).
Steve
Taylor has a policy that disallows advertising their pricing. Most of it stems
from there.
Steve (SEFSTRAT)
webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
Brent Gamble
stems
>from there.
From recent experience in shopping around for a Taylor, their advertising
policy has severely limited price competition among dealers. A lot of shops
don't even advertise the fact they are dealers, and are reluctant to discuss
"real" pricing over the telephone. To be fair, I only tried local,
non-national chain dealers. BG
JD Blackwell
bids from a number of Taylor dealers via email and have received some very
competitive numbers.
JD
Brent Gamble <bgle...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20010107203122...@ng-fh1.aol.com...
Jerry Dallal
: A lot of shops don't even advertise the fact they are dealers
That's because they are not allowed to, which is why you sometimes see
code words like "call about other companies who are not listed here" or
"we have the guitar that's tailor-made for you".
The thing that seems to get many upset is that the restriction on
advertising which makes it much harder for an owner to sell a used Taylor
through retail channels. One can always eBay or sell privately. I prefer
to let a retailer take a cut for doing all the work for me. Mandolin
Brothers has sold 3 Martins for me. (actually, one was my sister's, but
she asked me to handle it for her). I ship to MB, they advertise on their
website, a few months later I get a check. Since MB severed their
relationship with Taylor, they can do this with Taylor, too. But, a
Martin owner can sell his used Martin through any authorized Martin dealer
knowing that the dealer can advertise the guitar. If a Taylor owner wants
to sell a Taylor through an authorized dealer, s/he has to rely solely on
foot traffic.
Brian Corll
guitar is a personal preference, and for the individual one brand or model
may be the choice over all others. I don't see why others think they have
the right to comment on that - such commentary seems adolescent to me, at
best.
--
--------------------
Brian Corll
Don't believe everything you think !
"Hussman" <dfhu...@hotmail.neverspan.com> wrote in message
news:9304b2$9i...@news.cis.okstate.edu...
Steve
to sell a Taylor through an authorized dealer, s/he has to rely solely on
foot traffic.>>
Which, of course, may kill the value of any trade-up you may be looking to do.
jca...@my-deja.com
jcarp
In article <1Po66.7184$bR3.1...@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>,
Jeff Sherman
Godzilla <mcdo...@gci-net.com> wrote:
> I have a Taylor t-shirt that I wear. I also wear a Martin t-shirt and
> a Fender t-shirt, although not all three at the same time.
Sometimes a t-shirt's just a t-shirt. Hey, lemme know when Marge and
Jim get their clothes switched around so I can open my eyes again, will
ya?
Jeff
Greg Z
After all that verbiage below, you forgot to mention what size YOU
wear. (Inquiring minds may need to know)
Greg Z
> I am offended and appalled that any member of RMMGA would ask for
gifts from
> another member. This is definitely against all levels of decorum and
manners.
> How could anyone be so ill-mannered as to do such a thing. Mitch and
all like
> him should be banned from RMMGA then have all their instruments and
music
> paraphenalia confiscated.
>
> The Tom Risner Fund for Deserving North Texas Guitarplayers would
like to
> donate it time, resources and facilities to this worthy endeavor.
>
> Tom (I just do this for the good of others) from Texas
>
>
--
"There's bread to win and tolls to pay on Life's Highway"...Steve
Wariner
Tom from Texas
>
>jcarp
>
Nyanhy nyanhy poo poo.
Tom from Texas
Tom from Texas
>Tom,
> After all that verbiage below, you forgot to mention what size YOU
>wear. (Inquiring minds may need to know)
>
>Greg Z
>
>> I am offended and appalled that any member of RMMGA would ask for
>gifts from
>> another member. This is definitely against all levels of decorum and
>manners.
>> How could anyone be so ill-mannered as to do such a thing. Mitch and
>all like
>> him should be banned from RMMGA then have all their instruments and
>music
>> paraphenalia confiscated.
>>
>> The Tom Risner Fund for Deserving North Texas Guitarplayers would
>like to
>> donate it time, resources and facilities to this worthy endeavor.
>>
>> Tom (I just do this for the good of others) from Texas
>>
I wear a large due to Dorgan's Disorder.
Tom (It's all muscle..or used to be) from Texas