string materials - what why?
Abdul Tom
types? It's virtually impossible to get anything else, except the
occasional silk and steel. If you want nickel strings you either have
to buy electric jazz strings or Django Rheinhart style strings (which
is what I do) and they are very hard to find.
Why is this? I thought that in the past nickel / steel strings were
far more common than bronze. Bronze after all gets dirty and corrodes
quicker, makes your fingers taste funny, reacts to your sweat and has
that strange tingly tinny sound (only enhanced by horrible piezo
systems).
To me nickel sounds much more natural and closer to the pure, neutral
tone of the instrument uncoloured by alloy.
I know the majority of players prefer bronze, but it seems strange
that other materials are virtually unavailable. Did people play
nickel/steel in the past (or what came after gut) and why is bronze so
dominant?
Hojo2x
>okay, so why are 90% of acoustic strings made out of bronze of various>types?
>It's virtually impossible to get anything else,
Well, two factors, would be my guess:
One is that the so-called bronze alloys give a warmer, fatter bass response,
which is what most people like.
And the second reason is the market reality that the string companies want to
sell to as wide a market as possible, so they make the most popular style of
strings.
Also, it feeds on itself: if you take up the acoustic guitar and the one you
buy has bronze strings and the clerk at the music store reaches for bronze
strings when you ask for a set for acoustic guitar and if everyone you KNOW who
plays acoustic guitar uses bronze, you're likely to, as well.
Tom continues:
>Why is this? I thought that in the past nickel / steel strings were >far more
common than bronze.
Oh, sure, fifty years ago. Gibson Monel Steel guitar strings were what all the
old-timers were still using when I first started playing guitar back in the
mid-1970s, even though we younger players universally preferred bronze strings.
To our ears the Monel strings sounded really dead.
So far as I know, you can still get Gibson Monel strings for banjo and
mandolin, but they seemed to have been discontinued for guitar.
Tom writes:
>Bronze after all gets dirty and corrodes
>quicker, makes your fingers taste funny, reacts to your sweat and has>that
strange tingly tinny sound (only enhanced by horrible piezo>systems).
Plus, bronze strings cause your face to break out, your palms to grow furry,
your co-workers to say rude things about the size of your ears, PLUS they make
your feet swell and smell horrible even on only moderately warm days.....
Okay, I was kidding, but I was trying to commiserate with you there, buddy!
>To me nickel sounds much more natural and closer to the pure, neutral>tone of
the instrument uncoloured by alloy.
You prefer a more fundamental tone, then, obviously.
>I know the majority of players prefer bronze, but it seems strange>that other
materials are virtually unavailable. Did people play>nickel/steel in the past
(or what came after gut) and why is bronze so
>dominant?
So far as I can tell, nickel and steel were what was available in early steel
string guitar sets.
I think bronze is dominant because it's richer-sounding, and most of us who
play acoustic guitar just prefer that lush sound.
Hope that makes sense.
Wade Hampton Miller
Chugiak, Alaska
David Kilpatrick
The reason for bronze is weight, which combined with higher tension
produces more volume, that's all (in theory). Nickel is lighter, and
while it does not blacken, will still go dull. Steel is also relatively
light.
After gut, came silver or silver-plated copper wrapped around silk
stranded (or gut) cores, for the basses. Iron, brass, bronze and copper
wires have always been used for trebles and date back to prehistory -
they are found on ancient Greek and Egyptian instruments, and were used
by celtic, Saxon and Roman musicians on harp and lyre-type instruments.
Steel wire was introduced in a tensile form in Germany around 1608, with
a very short production life before the secret was lost again until the
mid-1700s (this eventually caused the revolution we call the piano!).
The heaviest, and thus thinnest, wrapped gut/silk basses used solid gold
wrappings (that would be unthinkable). Solid silver was not uncommon for
court performers, but silver plated copper, the heaviest equivalent at
modest cost, survives as the standard string for European mandolin
family instruments like the laud, bouzouki etc.
Before the introduction of modern string wrapping in the mid-1800s, bass
strings were made by twisting two, three or four trebles strings
together in a kind of rope (not a plait). Variants included gut twisted
together with iron wire, brass wire twisted together, brass and copper,
brass and iron. Twisted basses are not prone to the deadening effect
which happens with wrapped core basses (they do not gather moisture and
dirt under the wrap) and they feel quite nice under the fingers,
contrary to expectations. However, there's a limit to the tension which
brass wire (necessary to get the weight) will stand; the modern steel
core with a brass/bronze wrap is probably about the best compromise yet.
You can order conventional strings in nickel from Newtone, just bear in
mind they won't respond all that well to drop tunings, and you may need
(say) a 54 bass where a 52 would be fine in bronze. Gibson still make
and sell nickel wound and steel wound strings, unless my local shop has
an ancient supply which never runs out.
The main reason for using nickel or steel is higher response from
magnetic pickups. PB really came into its own with under saddle piezos.
David
Herb
Fwiw, D'Aquisto makes a 'Tony Rice' nickel string set. I've seen these
at FQMS.com. I haven't tried them yet, but if they'll make me sound
like Tony....
I've also heard that Stefan Grossman likes to play with nickel
strings. Both these players have a very strong attack (one flatpicker,
one fingerpicker). Maybe Bronze is more friendly to the softer player
(and since a lot of us lack confidence in our playing we tend to play
softly). Perhaps that is why Bronze is so predominant.
I'd be interested in hearing any comments you have about the D'Aquisto
strings if you decide to try them.
-- Herb
Mouser9999
a while. I really like 'em, and most string outlets still seem to carry them--
however, I checked Gibson's web site, and there is no mention of them. I hope
they haven't been discontinued! I'll have to buy a lifetime supply!
Abdul Tom
> mind they won't respond all that well to drop tunings, and you may need
> (say) a 54 bass where a 52 would be fine in bronze. Gibson still make
> and sell nickel wound and steel wound strings, unless my local shop has
> an ancient supply which never runs out.
Newtone strings is what I use, but I think the only Nickel strings
they do is the Django series. How a nickel "acoustic" string differs
from a nickel "electric" string I can't say. However, contrary to your
comment the Django strings are all light gauge (11-46 or 11-50). I use
the light gauge on my electric and the heavier on my acoustic.
I have used bronze and not really noticed a difference in volume. I
use a small bodied acoustic and like the sound of nickel. I'd say it's
halfway between Nylon and Bronze.
The reason for this post was when i tried to order more strings from
Malcolm Newton and couldn't get a reply from him I had a look around
to see what else there was. The answer was very little.
I have tried silk and steel but prefer nickel.
Hojo2x
>Newtone strings is what I use, but I think the only Nickel strings
>they do is the Django series.
Well, he'll make you whatever you want.
>The reason for this post was when i tried to order more strings from>Malcolm
Newton and couldn't get a reply from him I had a look around>to see what else
there was. The answer was very little.
Hmm, odd that you didn't hear back from him.
If you just sent one e-mail or left one voice mail, I'd say try again. If it
was by e-mail, it might have had the bad luck to arrive in the midst of a swarm
of spam messages and, perhaps, was deleted by mistake.
That's happened to me more than once.
Another possible source for custom strings is LaBella, in the US. They're
quite open to discussions along these lines.
Hope this helps.
David Kilpatrick
Abdul Tom wrote:
>>You can order conventional strings in nickel from Newtone, just bear in
>>mind they won't respond all that well to drop tunings, and you may need
>>(say) a 54 bass where a 52 would be fine in bronze. Gibson still make
>>and sell nickel wound and steel wound strings, unless my local shop has
>>an ancient supply which never runs out.
>
>
> Newtone strings is what I use, but I think the only Nickel strings
> they do is the Django series. How a nickel "acoustic" string differs
> from a nickel "electric" string I can't say. However, contrary to your
> comment the Django strings are all light gauge (11-46 or 11-50). I use
> the light gauge on my electric and the heavier on my acoustic.
>
That's why they were Django strings. They were hardly going to heavy!
Real proper Django (gypsy) strings can be had from John Pearse and seem
to be related to Thomastik-Infeld plectrum folk strings - flat metal
wrapped silk core trebles, silk core basses. The point is, low tension,
very low, and great flexibility. So Malc probably would make them skinny.
Nickel strings which I use, in quite heavy weights, get very clangy and
zingy. My fake baritone is strung with nickel ultra-heavies, I think it
has a 68 bass (I tried a 73, too much). To get the low tuning I want on
a standard scale they don't need too much tension so it won't hurt the
guitar. I also use nickels on my cittern but that's a mistake and they
are due to come off it. Proplem is they have already lasted about two years.
David
Abdul Tom
> strings if you decide to try them.
I checked those out, Herb, but they're too fat for my dainty digits.
I'll check out the Gibsons too.
BTW, does anyone if there is a difference per se between acoustic
nickel and electric nickel strings, other than maybe gauge?
Abdul Tom
yes, according to the website Gibson don't make any nickel strings for
acoustic any more.
foldedpath
news:fec26e29.03061...@posting.google.com:
I don't think there's any difference, but maybe someone will correct me. As
you've noticed, "acoustic" nickelwounds are kinda rare anyway.
When I've wanted that particular sound, I just get electric guitar
nickelwound strings and use them on an acoustic. I have some GHS nickel
flatwounds on my wooden National reso right now, as an experiment to hear
what it sounds like with slide. It's a nice mellow sound, but it's not
quite as "phat" on the bass strings as phosphor bronze. And slide vibrato
sure sounds different on flatwounds, compared to round. Jury's still out.
--
Mike Barrs
Tom from Texas
Cause it's pretty and attracts more females.
Tom (the simple truth) from Texas
Tom from Texas
>
>If you just sent one e-mail or left one voice mail, I'd say try again. If it
>was by e-mail, it might have had the bad luck to arrive in the midst of a
>swarm
>of spam messages and, perhaps, was deleted by mistake.
>
>That's happened to me more than once.
>
>
>
>
>Wade Hampton Miller
>Chugiak, Alaska
>
>
>
Yeah, like I'm gonna believe that the eighth time ya told me that.
Tom (still waitin' for the old resonator mandolin donation) from Texas
Tom from Texas
>at FQMS.com. I haven't tried them yet, but if they'll make me sound
>like Tony...
Is that all they cost? a nickel?
Give me a couple hunnerd sets.
Tom from Texas
Mike brown
mag pickup fitted) are D'Addario "Chromes" on my archtop. It gives a
lovely soft warm jazzy sound through the mag, some nice variations through
the UST, and an interesting sound that is good for rhythm playing, played
acoustically.
Michael James Richard B
Abdul Tom
instrument" movement in guitars comparable with chamber music. That
would create a demand for these old string technologies.
> You can order conventional strings in nickel from Newtone, just bear in
> mind they won't respond all that well to drop tunings, and you may need
> (say) a 54 bass where a 52 would be fine in bronze. Gibson still make
> and sell nickel wound and steel wound strings, unless my local shop has
> an ancient supply which never runs out.
why would they not respond well to drop tunings? Is the metal less
elastic? I drop tunings to D and haven't experienced any problems as
yet.
>
> The main reason for using nickel or steel is higher response from
> magnetic pickups. PB really came into its own with under saddle piezos.
Funnily that's one of the things I don't like about PB strings. The
toppiness of the piezo and the toppiness of the bronze combine to make
a very tinny sound (without much preamp tweaking).
stuart
http://www.rohrtech.com/
Nice theory. Just wonder if they are as dead as a doornail.
Stuart
Sydney
"Abdul Tom" <ab...@thelarkincompany.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fec26e29.03061...@posting.google.com...