Wherefore art thou, Google?

[Steve Hawkins]

This may be why things have looked a little slow around here. From what
I've heard, it seems Google will no longer allow their Google Groups
servers to talk to the rest of usenet. If you don't use Google Groups you
won't be able to see those posts and replies and a Google user can't see
yours, if I understand it all correctly.

Steve Hawkins

[Tony Done]

"Steve Hawkins" wrote in message
news:Xns9FF1853EC870st...@74.209.131.10...

*****************

That explains why I was holding an conversation in GG that didn't show up on
my news servers. I do a belt and braces - GG and two news servers.

Tony D

[dsi1]

Google has made Usenet a subset of Google Groups. You can see all the
posts on GG but my Usenet servers are not carrying any GG posts. I'm
posting this through usenet-news.net otherwise you wouldn't be seeing it.

[Tony Done]

GG is evidently receiving from other soruces, as evidenced by this
post. Let's see if it appears on non-GG servers.

Tony D

[David Hajicek]

"Steve Hawkins" <stephen....@frontier.comREMOVETHIS> wrote in message
news:Xns9FF1853EC870st...@74.209.131.10...

Well that is a shitty way to do business.

Dave

[Les Cargill]

So the last person at Google who knew how to run a newsfeed quit, then?

"Don't be evil. Just assume the world revolves around you."

--
Les Cargill

[Steve Hawkins]

dsi1 <dsi...@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in
news:4f3046cb$0$3404$882e...@usenet-news.net:

Actually Google has disconnected itself from usenet and is now just like
any other group running a local discussion board.

Steve Hawkins

[Mike Brown]

In article <jgpg7r$ggd$1...@dont-email.me>,

It explains my three day drought too.

MJRB

[dsi1]

Not totally - they still carry all the Usenet posts. It's still
unconfirmed as to what's happening. If you have any info, I'd be
interested.

[Steve Hawkins]

dsi1 <ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote in news:jgppo9$4i8$1@dont-
email.me:

Well, they'll carry everything they already have until they expire them.
However, if what I've heard is correct, posts made after their change
will only show up on their servers if they're generated inside Google. I
suspect their next move will be to reduce the number of groups they
carry. The groups may have the same names, but it's no longer usenet. I
ran across the issue on the Jazz group.

Steve Hawkins

[MKR]

On Feb 6, 3:05 pm, Steve Hawkins

I posted this from Google Groups.

[Nil]

On 06 Feb 2012, Steve Hawkins
<stephen....@frontier.comREMOVETHIS> wrote in
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic:

> Actually Google has disconnected itself from usenet and is now
> just like any other group running a local discussion board.

Prove it.

I think it's just a glitch, like has happened many times before. There
is no evidence that they have intentionally "disconnected" themselves.

Don't you really mean, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"?

[Nil]

On 06 Feb 2012, Steve Hawkins
<stephen....@frontier.comREMOVETHIS> wrote in
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic:

> Well, they'll carry everything they already have until they expire
> them. However, if what I've heard is correct, posts made after
> their change will only show up on their servers if they're
> generated inside Google.

Heard where?

[David Hajicek]

"Les Cargill" <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:jgpnt8$o0r$3...@dont-email.me...

If the world revolves around me, I think the bearings need a little more
grease. ;>)

Dave H

[hank alrich]

Nope, can't see it here.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[hank alrich]

Posted what?

[Tony Done]

On Feb 7, 3:48 pm, walki...@nv.net (hank alrich) wrote:

> shut up and play your guitar *http://hankalrich.com/http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusichttp://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I can't see your reply either. Weird eh?

Tony D

[Steve Hawkins]

Nil <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in news:Xns9FF1DF5FC91C8nilch1@
127.0.0.1:

I suggest you Google the word "rumor" and take it to heart.

Steve Hawkins

[Steve Hawkins]

Nil <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in news:Xns9FF1DF92C26E7nilch1@
127.0.0.1:

Read all the posts in the thread, then you can ask questions.

Steve Hawkins

[Steve Hawkins]

Tony Done <tony...@bigpond.com> wrote in
news:877917c2-a6e5-4614...@vd8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com:

Came through on mine.

Steve Hawkins

[Steve Hawkins]

MKR <mkro...@gmail.com> wrote in news:f19f7512-602d-4663-be61-
b4eca5...@s7g2000vby.googlegroups.com:

Yep, came through fine.

Steve Hawkins

[Nil]

On 07 Feb 2012, Steve Hawkins
<stephen....@frontier.comREMOVETHIS> wrote in
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic:

> I suggest you Google the word "rumor" and take it to heart.

You didn't present it as a rumor. You presented it as if it were a
fact.

[Nil]

On 07 Feb 2012, Steve Hawkins
<stephen....@frontier.comREMOVETHIS> wrote in
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic:

> Read all the posts in the thread, then you can ask questions.

I did read it. Nobody cited a source. Somebody made it up with no
evidence to support it.

And all you Chicken Little's are wrong. Google unblocked whatever was
hanging up the messages and they are all coming out now. Just like what
happened many times before.

[Steve Hawkins]

Nil <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in news:Xns9FF2144AF9127nilch1@
127.0.0.1:

Raed the original post and also consider that DS1 and I were discussing
possible outcomes and consequences.

Steve Hawkins

[Steve Hawkins]

Nil <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in news:Xns9FF214EB326FEnilch1
@127.0.0.1:

> On 07 Feb 2012, Steve Hawkins
> <stephen....@frontier.comREMOVETHIS> wrote in
> rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic:
>
>> Read all the posts in the thread, then you can ask questions.
>
> I did read it. Nobody cited a source. Somebody made it up with no
> evidence to support it.

And I quote....me

<begin>

Well, they'll carry everything they already have until they expire them.
However, if what I've heard is correct, posts made after their change

will only show up on their servers if they're generated inside Google. I
suspect their next move will be to reduce the number of groups they
carry. The groups may have the same names, but it's no longer usenet. I
ran across the issue on the Jazz group.

<end>

> And all you Chicken Little's are wrong. Google unblocked whatever was
> hanging up the messages and they are all coming out now. Just like what
> happened many times before.

Well then, do your little happy dance and declare victory. Are you
supposed to be up this late on a school night?

Steve Hawkins

[Wilbur]

On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 18:37:54 -0800 (PST), MKR <mkro...@gmail.com>
wrote:

And this one I posted through Agent's usenet server.

(it took some time for the post through GG to propagate out to usent,
so I went to bed...)

[Hanger]

"Steve Hawkins" <stephen....@frontier.comREMOVETHIS> wrote in message
news:Xns9FF1853EC870st...@74.209.131.10...

> This may be why things have looked a little slow around here. From what
> I've heard, it seems Google will no longer allow their Google Groups
> servers to talk to the rest of usenet. If you don't use Google Groups you
> won't be able to see those posts and replies and a Google user can't see
> yours, if I understand it all correctly.
>
> Steve Hawkins
>

Sorry Steve...did i send that to you? try again, .....not used this channel
for AGES!

C.

[dick thaxter]

On Feb 6, 4:05 pm, Steve Hawkins

<stephen.hawki...@frontier.comREMOVETHIS> wrote:
> This may be why things have looked a little slow around here.  From what
> I've heard, it seems Google will no longer allow their Google Groups
> servers to talk to the rest of usenet.  If you don't use Google Groups you
> won't be able to see those posts and replies and a Google user can't see
> yours, if I understand it all correctly.
>
> Steve Hawkins

On Feb 7 at 10 am EST I see 27 posts on this thread dated 2/6 and 2/7

I'm on GG.

Dick

[Inyo]

"dick thaxter" <dtha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:13514c62-b1fe-4a29-97e0-

On Feb 7 at 10 am EST I see 27 posts on this thread dated 2/6 and 2/7

I'm on GG.

Dick

________________________________________________

I'm using the free eternal-september.org--I counted 28 posts in this thread,
prior to my own appearance in it, proving that your count of 27 was
accurate.

But wait. There's more. I did a name by name comparison of posters who
posted in this thread. The logical conclusion could well have been
thus--that while the number of postings was the same, different individuals
might be involved, depending of course on which Usenet service they happened
to use. The conclusion? No difference in names exists between Google Groups
and eternal-september.org--at least in this specific thread.

Seems that cross-pollination (propagation) of posts across Usenet platforms
persists. This still does not prove that Google Groups will not in the
future segregate their own postings from the rest of Usenet. Only that, for
now, all seems copasetic.

Numbers crunching...literally. Are we having any fun yet?

http://inyo.coffeecup.com/site/guitar/inyoguitar7.html
My solo, acoustic, instrumental 6-string guitar version of the memorable
Brian Wilson-Mike Love composition, "Help Me, Rhonda." #1 US Billboard for
The Beach Boys, 1965.

[dsi1]

On 2/7/2012 7:19 AM, Inyo wrote:
> "dick thaxter"<dtha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:13514c62-b1fe-4a29-97e0-
>
> On Feb 7 at 10 am EST I see 27 posts on this thread dated 2/6 and 2/7
>
> I'm on GG.
>
> Dick
> ________________________________________________
>
> I'm using the free eternal-september.org--I counted 28 posts in this thread,
> prior to my own appearance in it, proving that your count of 27 was
> accurate.

ES works a lot better than my paid server. I want my $5 back! ;-0

>
> But wait. There's more. I did a name by name comparison of posters who
> posted in this thread. The logical conclusion could well have been
> thus--that while the number of postings was the same, different individuals
> might be involved, depending of course on which Usenet service they happened
> to use. The conclusion? No difference in names exists between Google Groups
> and eternal-september.org--at least in this specific thread.
>
> Seems that cross-pollination (propagation) of posts across Usenet platforms
> persists. This still does not prove that Google Groups will not in the
> future segregate their own postings from the rest of Usenet. Only that, for
> now, all seems copasetic.

The effect was (is?) much more pronounced in groups with a high
percentage of GG posters.

My guess is that there some kind of power play between Usenet and GG. My
guess is that we might never know what happened. :-)

[Tony Done]

"dsi1" wrote in message news:jgs2u3$rbe$1...@dont-email.me...

*************

Some GG behaviour was odd over the weekend. In addition to any comments
above, I have been holding a conversation in GG over a period of a few days
that didn't show up on my news servers until yesterday, then it appeared in
its entirety. I would expected the earlier bits to have been lost to the
news servers.

Tony D

[dsi1]

On 2/7/2012 10:57 AM, Tony Done wrote:
>
> Some GG behaviour was odd over the weekend. In addition to any comments
> above, I have been holding a conversation in GG over a period of a few
> days that didn't show up on my news servers until yesterday, then it
> appeared in its entirety. I would expected the earlier bits to have been
> lost to the news servers.
>
> Tony D
>

At the beginning of this month, GG made some changes to integrate GG
with Google+. I'm not sure that Usenet will be able to live with an
edited version of itself but as far as I can see, they pretty much have
to go along with Google's evil intents for Usenet. :-)

[George Weston]

I think the best thing to do in the circumstances is not to use Google
Groups but to subscribe to a *proper* newsreader.
They're a lot quicker and easier and some of them are free.

George

[dsi1]

On Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:09:28 AM UTC-10, George Weston wrote:
>
> I think the best thing to do in the circumstances is not to use Google
> Groups but to subscribe to a *proper* newsreader.
> They're a lot quicker and easier and some of them are free.
>
> George

I think the direction of computing is stacked against this. The future is going to be mobile and hand-held devices running small web-based apps not client programs on a desktop.

I think the new ultra-notebooks are going to take a heavy toll on the sales of desktop systems and more importantly, will bring about the end of local disk storage of files. NNTP is just not an option in the future. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Les Cargill]

You can run an NNTP client on a small notebook. Er, specifically an
Acer Aspire netbook. I done dood it once.

If they can get all the hooey I need into a case the size of
that Aspire, then ... giggity. I will be happy to switch to
Thunderbolt or USB3.0 for audio so long as it works as well as an
ADAT Lightpipe card on a PCI bus. SFAIK, one can convert ePCI to
"real" PCI without too much trouble[1] and I had considered that
option when looking before.

<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024CV3SA/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001Q7X0Z8&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=07X8JRT6R6ZTQFNXTJ0R>

but hopefully, Thunderbolt or PCI3.0 will make that unnecessary.
but I would be *REAL SURPRISED* if desktops disappear altogether.

--
Les Cargill

[Wilbur Slice]

dsi1 <dsi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:09:28 AM UTC-10, George Weston wrote:
>>
>> I think the best thing to do in the circumstances is not to use Google
>> Groups but to subscribe to a *proper* newsreader.
>> They're a lot quicker and easier and some of them are free.
>>
>> George
>
> I think the direction of computing is stacked against this. The future is
> going to be mobile and hand-held devices running small web-based apps not
> client programs on a desktop.
>

Huh? There is no reason why a "proper" newsreader can't run on a mobile
device. In fact, I'm writing this on my iPad using NewsTap. There are
some things I don't particularly care for in NewsTap, but it is a "proper"
newsreader using the same nntp server as my Agent readers use, and it works
fine.

> I think the new ultra-notebooks are going to take a heavy toll on the
> sales of desktop systems and more importantly, will bring about the end
> of local disk storage of files. NNTP is just not an option in the future.
> Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

This here iPad has 64 GB of storage. That's 64 GIGAbytes! That's a lot
more than most computers just a few years ago, and in a few years it will
probably be capable of a lot more. But then, you don't need a lot of
storage to do NNTP.

--
-- Wilbur

[dsi1]

On 2/8/2012 2:31 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:09:28 AM UTC-10, George Weston wrote:
>>>
>>> I think the best thing to do in the circumstances is not to use Google
>>> Groups but to subscribe to a *proper* newsreader.
>>> They're a lot quicker and easier and some of them are free.
>>>
>>> George
>>
>> I think the direction of computing is stacked against this. The future
>> is going to be mobile and hand-held devices running small web-based
>> apps not client programs on a desktop.
>>
>> I think the new ultra-notebooks are going to take a heavy toll on the
>> sales of desktop systems and more importantly, will bring about the
>> end of local disk storage of files. NNTP is just not an option in the
>> future. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
>
>
> You can run an NNTP client on a small notebook. Er, specifically an
> Acer Aspire netbook. I done dood it once.

You are correct about this. I'm expecting that the computers of the
future will be using an iOS or Android or Chrome OS. I have used NewsTap
on the iPad but didn't like it.

>
> If they can get all the hooey I need into a case the size of
> that Aspire, then ... giggity. I will be happy to switch to
> Thunderbolt or USB3.0 for audio so long as it works as well as an
> ADAT Lightpipe card on a PCI bus. SFAIK, one can convert ePCI to
> "real" PCI without too much trouble[1] and I had considered that
> option when looking before.

You can say that again!

[dsi1]

On 2/8/2012 4:48 PM, Wilbur Slice wrote:
> This here iPad has 64 GB of storage. That's 64 GIGAbytes! That's a lot
> more than most computers just a few years ago, and in a few years it will
> probably be capable of a lot more. But then, you don't need a lot of
> storage to do NNTP.
>

My iPad has only 32 GB of storage. It's more than enough for the apps
and some file storage. That's the new computing for you.

On a Windows desktop machine I'd want at least 1 TB of hard drive space.
A 500W power supply and 4 GB of RAM would also be a minimum. That's
Windows computing for you - wasteful beyond all reason. I'm not sure
whether there will be a good newsreader app for mobile devices. I have
not seen any. I don't even know if there will be any NNTP servers in a
few years. We'll sure find out though.

[Steve Hawkins]

Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote in

news:jgv3qv$pgn$1...@dont-email.me:

Older people are already having trouble with displays on phones and pads
because they're too hard to read and are unable to display much
information.

If the only thing people need is a way to access the web, they really
don't need much computing power. Folks who actually use their computers
to create and produce will keep the configurable desktop market going.
And don't forget the serious Gamers! Desktops will continue the trend of
taking up less space on the top of the desk though. :-)

Steve Hawkins

[Wilbur]

Well, there's NewsTap on the iPad, like I said. It's not the greatest
program imaginable, but the point is: it's an NNTP client, and it
works just fine. And there is no reason why ANY existing desktop NNTP
client (like Agent, for example) couldn't be ported to the iPad or
Android pads. And no reason why new newsreaders couldn't be written.

The point is: iPads and Android pads are just computers, no different
in principle from any other computer. People seem to think they are
different somehow, but they are only different in their form factors.
They are computers. You can write software for them - any software
you can dream up. Yes, you have to live within the boundaries of
whatever hardware they provide (screen size, I/O devices, networking,
etc.) just like any other computer. But there is no reason why a
"pad" can't have all the capabilities (hardware and software) of any
"desktop" computer, if the manufacturers decide to add those
capabilities. You want 10 Terabytes of storage on a pad? That's
entirely possible. There is really no limiting factor in principle.

So if there is never a better newsreader than NewsTap for the iPad, it
won't be because of any limitations of the pads, it will be because
usenet itself continues to wither and nobody thinks it's worth the
effort to develop a program for it.

[Chris]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:33:04 -1000, dsi1
<ds...@eternal-september.invalid> wrote:

I ran Free Agent on my old Pentium 4 computer up until its 80GB hard
drive did the "click of death". Now I have a Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM
and a 500GB hard drive. Still using Free Agent.
On my Android I use Groundhog, which seems pretty nice. I can read it
with no problem, and my vision isn't so great anymore.
Chris

[dsi1]

Hopefully, there will good newsreader apps made for iOS and Android.
There's a couple of readers in the Android app store. They don't look
too promising. I'd really have to get an Android tablet to check those out.

[dsi1]

My understanding is that Groundhog might have been abandoned by it's
developer. I've used Forte Agent. It's like a time machine to see that
old style interface. My guess is that the system requirements for that
program should be pretty low. I prefer to use my T-Bird program anyway.

[hank alrich]

Wilbur <wil...@sliceathome.com> wrote:

> There is really no limiting factor in principle.

http://www.auriaapp.com/Products/auria

Fo' 'xample.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Chris]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:45:43 -1000, dsi1

Yeah, Free Agent is the old free version of Forte Agent, without some
of the bells and whistles. Works very well, though. I have been
tempted to buy the full version just for the kill filters, but
actually, this group seems to have filtered itself enough that I don't
need it.
Too bad if the devs have abandoned Groundhog for Android. I will have
to check around and see if there are any other free newsgroup readers.
Chris

[Chris]

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 11:20:16 -0800, walk...@nv.net (hank alrich)
wrote:

>Wilbur <wil...@sliceathome.com> wrote:
>
>> There is really no limiting factor in principle.
>
>http://www.auriaapp.com/Products/auria
>
>Fo' 'xample.

That is pretty cool.
Chris