Kids, Education, and the Arts
No Busking
call "The Standard - Intelligence for the Internet Economy". The
following article was printed in a recent special edition on education.
This article hits a few hot buttons for me, because I have children
that are extremely computer literate, and because I believe that arts
education in the USA is in crisis. I'm interested in the views of
others...including perspective from those outside the US.
I personally believe that many of the "computer education" efforts in
our schools are well-intended but misguided, and come at the expense of
other important programs. I maintain that arts education is essential
for developing well-rounded members of society with critical thinking
and creative skills. Perhaps you agree or disagree...I'd love to hear
your perspective
My own entry-level background in business was in finance, yet I feel
that music and theatre education have proven to be far more important
to my career and mental health than any accounting or marketing class I
took at University.
Best regards,
Mike Pugh
======================
Give Them Clay
Kids Don't Need No E-Ducation
By Clifford Stoll
Name 10 problems confronting students today. You might include short
attention span, hyper-activity, addiction to television and a sedentary
lifestyle. Somehow, I'll bet your list doesn't include fear of
computers, insufficient electronic messages or inability to surf the
Web.
Yet we're designing our schools as if students need training in
computers; as if we're worried that children will – gasp! – lapse into
book reading and handwriting rather than Web surfing and word
processing. It's absurd: Computers may baffle adults, but kids adapt
easily to them.
When I visit a high school, the principal inevitably shows me the
computer room. I ask, "What did this room used to be?"
The answers are telling: "Oh, we converted the music studio into this
technology laboratory. We don't teach instruments now."
"We used to teach art here, but now it's our interactive graphics
lab." "This was a machine shop."
Has the Web washed away the need for art, music, reading and crafts?
The truth is, it's in danger of doing so. Instead of being encouraged
to create with their hands – say, with a lump of clay – kids are fed a
diet of preprogrammed mental choices. Their fantasy play gets hijacked
by animated cartoon figures that prompt them to click icons. The glitzy
graphics are deceptive – they may look artistic, but the user is really
just digesting someone else's creativity.
Computers are supposed to be "good" because they're interactive and
noncommercial. Television is "bad" because it's passive and commercial.
I'll bet that, to a child, there isn't much difference. Both show their
favorite characters in fast-paced animated clips; both deliver long
stretches of mental excitement with minimal muscular activity.
What happens when you set a child behind a computer painting program?
The software will teach her how to manipulate a mouse, how to select
from menus and how to fill in geometric shapes. She'll also learn to
wait her turn at the keyboard – after all, the computer is a one-kid-at-
a-time experience. Now give the kid some finger paints and a sheet of
butcher paper. It's slimy, gooey, messy. The colors mix unpredictably.
She makes handprints, figures out the effects of a brush, discovers how
to blend colors. To make it collaborative, just add more kids.
Try the same contrast at school. These so-called teaching machines
direct students away from reading, away from writing, away from
scholarship. They substitute quick answers and fast action for
reflection and critical thinking. A student who gets a wrong answer can
dismiss it with, "Oh, I just pressed the wrong button," rather than
recognizing that he went about solving a problem the wrong way. At the
same time, teachers reward students for turning in visually exciting
hypermedia projects, often at the expense of written compositions and
hand-drawn projects. Pasting a fancy graphic into a science report
doesn't mean an eighth-grader has learned anything about the material.
As much as I love computers, I can't imagine them delivering a good
education. No amount of Web searching can make up for a lack of
critical thinking, communications skills or analytic abilities. No
microprocessor can augment the creative interplay of hand, clay and art
teacher. And no online astronomy program can engender the same sense of
awe as first seeing the rings of Saturn through a telescope.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Clifford Stoll is the author of The Cuckoo's Egg and High Tech Heretic:
Why Computers Don't Belong in Schools.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Robert McArthur
> for developing well-rounded members of society with critical thinking
> and creative skills. Perhaps you agree or disagree...I'd love to hear
> your perspective
Seeing as I teach guitar and songwriting at a high school for the
performing arts in Austin, I agree. You should see these kiuds--some of
them otherwise borderline students-- come alive when they write their own
music or learn a fingerstyle piece on guitar. Alsao, studies have shown
that kids involvced in music do better in math.
I have to fight every year to keep these courses from being eradicated
and get no funding for music or equipment (the kids have to provide
everything themselves) while at the same time the football program gets
literally tens upon tens of thousands of $$--and the entire football team
is smaller in number than my 6th period songwriting class!
Robert
juvenal
"Robert McArthur" wrote...
> Seeing as I teach guitar and songwriting at a high school for the
> them otherwise borderline students-- come alive when they write their own
> music or learn a fingerstyle piece on guitar.
I've seen this, too. We have the kids from the Youth Emergency Services up
to our church every year, and one of the things I do is set up a room with a
guitar, mics, an AN1x filled with synth beats, lots of hand drums. The kids
love it. Some of these kids have been through hell, but they really open up
given the chance to play music.
> I have to fight every year to keep these courses from being eradicated
> and get no funding for music or equipment (the kids have to provide
> everything themselves) while at the same time the football program gets
> literally tens upon tens of thousands of $$--and the entire football team
> is smaller in number than my 6th period songwriting class!
That seems odd for a performing arts school. Unfortunately, boys sports get
the lions share of those funds, and creative pursuits are often the first to
go. All of our schools need sufficient funding so every kid gets the
opportunity to pursue his or her talents.
Timothy Juvenal
Wade Ramey
well. Learning a keyboard and being entertained by blinking lights is not
science.
> I personally believe that many of the "computer education" efforts in
> our schools are well-intended but misguided, and come at the expense of
> other important programs.
When I was teaching mathematics at a university, it was usually the
weakest faculty members who were the most gung-ho over the new technology.
They were the ones who were the most bureaucratically inclined, they got
on committees that stupidly oversaw the implementation of computer tech,
etc. Good tech people hired by the department were under the thumb of
these dingbats. The situation is pretty sick, really.
I hope I'm not insulting too many people here. But I believe computers are
best for people who learned to think critically before there were any
computers around.
Wade
cjpark1
one I read. I don't have a whole lot of pet peeves but education is one.
I can't add much ,so just read the thread over again and when you vote
for a school committee person, try to find ones that are intelligent not
smart!
Charles Park
Gorblimey
original thread.
The french have a Baccalaureat system that makes most Western teaching
systems look inane. Instead of teaching children maybe ten subjects they
focus on the traditional arts subjects (Maths, Philosophy, Languages, Logic,
Fine Art, History etc) which go back centuries.
Instead of taking 'A' levels at 18 they take a 'bac' and it must include
either an arts (as in History, Languages etc) and two sciences or a science
and two arts. There are variations on this and anyone with a better
knowledge of the French education system than me (about 60 million people or
so...) feel free to correct me.
You can see at a glance the philosophy behind this approach.
As far as computers are concerned, the following happened to me. Before
taking my current job I had a sandwich business, before that I sold wine and
took a diploma in viticulture and vinification. Before that I managed an oil
depot, before that I sold insurance. Today I place telecommunications
engineers world wide. I don't know one end of a wave pattern from the other,
but I can still work out what people want.
When I started the sandwich business (1991), Faxes were new fangled things.
I spent 6 years out of the technological loop altogether. The office I took
over in '98 had a fax machine that displayed incoming faxes on my desktop
and I could forward them without even printing them off. We had the
internet, we had the whole Godforsaken Windows '95 setup.
I still can't do Excel properly (I don't need to), but mastering the basics
of Word, the Net, Boolean searches, windows etc etc took me 5 working days.
I was 41.
Children need to be taught how to use the technology around them so that
they are not intimidated by it, and so that the ones who are turned on by it
can be tecchies if they want to. The technology, however, when applied to
the arts is limited by the ability of the computer to respond to the demands
of the artist.
Corel Paint has some nice stuff on it. Ever tried to draw a hand with it?
We (I mean all us old geezers here, really) owe it to our children to fight
to make the teaching available for children to learn to express themselves
using their hands and voices both in the arts and sport.
Bizarrely, My son's bassist can now play a number of songs, but my boy told
me once that he pointed out that one of my guitars needed repairing - it had
gone out of tune. Had he had even rudimentary musical training at primary
school he would have known that nearly all instruments need tuning, and a
whole lot more besides. My feeling is that young people growing up so
starved of cultural awareness are being failed by the establishment and
their parents.
Just my usual £5.00 or so worth..
Pete
No Busking <nobu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8polmj$do0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> computers; as if we're worried that children will - gasp! - lapse into
> book reading and handwriting rather than Web surfing and word
> processing. It's absurd: Computers may baffle adults, but kids adapt
> easily to them.
>
>
> When I visit a high school, the principal inevitably shows me the
> computer room. I ask, "What did this room used to be?"
>
>
> The answers are telling: "Oh, we converted the music studio into this
> technology laboratory. We don't teach instruments now."
>
>
> "We used to teach art here, but now it's our interactive graphics
> lab." "This was a machine shop."
>
>
> Has the Web washed away the need for art, music, reading and crafts?
>
>
> The truth is, it's in danger of doing so. Instead of being encouraged
> to create with their hands - say, with a lump of clay - kids are fed a
> diet of preprogrammed mental choices. Their fantasy play gets hijacked
> by animated cartoon figures that prompt them to click icons. The glitzy
> graphics are deceptive - they may look artistic, but the user is really
> just digesting someone else's creativity.
>
>
> Computers are supposed to be "good" because they're interactive and
> noncommercial. Television is "bad" because it's passive and commercial.
> I'll bet that, to a child, there isn't much difference. Both show their
> favorite characters in fast-paced animated clips; both deliver long
> stretches of mental excitement with minimal muscular activity.
>
>
> What happens when you set a child behind a computer painting program?
> The software will teach her how to manipulate a mouse, how to select
> from menus and how to fill in geometric shapes. She'll also learn to
> wait her turn at the keyboard - after all, the computer is a one-kid-at-
Bob Dorgan
My feeling is that young people growing up so
> starved of cultural awareness are being failed by the establishment and
> their parents.
Well said Pete.
You will be surprised to learn that I have served on my local school
board for the last 6 years.
This school district was in financial disarray and was actually
operating at a deficit at the time I was elected.
Most of our operating revenues are provided by New York State aid, and
the remainder through a local tax levy.
Therefore, as a school business administrator you have some very strict
state guidelines to adhere to in order to qualify for a level of state
aid to allow your school to be affordable for the local residents.
In order to comply with state law, we had to slash the budget radically,
and raise the local tax levy to a staggering level to erase the deficit.
When faced with the decisions to pick and choose educational programs to
cut, I realized how difficult this position I had undertaken really was.
And I realized how poorly written our state laws are in regards to
education. I was appalled to learn that elementary students are not
required by law to be educated in music and art.
I'm still puzzling over a state education department who can truthfully
boast that their policies created a system that is among the best in the
country, could possibly think that elementary children do not need to be
instructed in the arts.
We decided, as a community, that rather than cut our programs we would
pay the deficit off in 3 years through massive tax increases.
Through creative scheduling, thoughtful staff reductions and compromise
we were able to carry it off.
But the basic problem with the state's system still exists.
Revenue is NOT made available from the state to fund art and music
programs at the primary level. It has to be paid for through local tax
levy.
This is criminal in my view.
Rant over, but the fight is not.
Bob Dorgan
Carlos Alden
>Gorblimey wrote:
>My feeling is that young people growing up so
>> starved of cultural awareness are being failed by the establishment and
>> their parents.
>
>Well said Pete.
>
................................................
>Revenue is NOT made available from the state to fund art and music
>programs at the primary level. It has to be paid for through local tax
>levy.
>This is criminal in my view.
>
>Rant over, but the fight is not.
>Bob Dorgan
Howdy all:
I scan this group every day and read about 10% of it, and don't post
much. BUT.......Let me jump on this bandwagon as well. I know it's
preaching to the choir, but hey, I have to vent a bit.
Our kids' elementary school is known district-wide (32 elem schools in the
district) for quality education, parent involvement, and good test
scores. People move to this area for this school. But...
THe art teacher comes for half the year. Then they visit each class once
a week for about 45 minutes. The music program is a good quality but
fairly standard theme musical, put on in the spring, one by the primary
grades and one by the upper grades. Band and orchestra instruction begins
at 5th grade, not earlier. I just had a run-around with the principal
about my fourth-grade son with this. Zachary has been taking suzuki
violin for four years. He quit a few months ago, for varied reasons, but
we wanted him to not just drop violin,but find a way to keep playing but
at a lower commitment level than what suzuki asked for. The teacher
suggested he get into the school strings program.
I called the music teacher, who was fine with it. I called his teachers
who are fine with it. I called the principal, more out of respect for
including her in the process, which was a mistake. She was nervously
hesitant about breaking rules and letting a fourth grader enter a fifth
grade program. Two times a week, 30 minutes each time. I assured her I
checked with his teachers and the strings teacher, etc. etc. But no, the
principal had to call the district-wide director of music education.
Okay, she calls back in four days. She has talked to his teachers and the
strings teacher ( totally ignoring that I had told her I ran it by them
already) and lets me know that Zachary can do it with the following
provisions: He "audition" for the strings teacher, he makes up any work
missed in class, we re-check after a few months to see how he's doing, and
that there is not promise for what happens next year. Her concern, she
said, is that they "don't want a run of parents asking why their fourth
grader can't enter the violin program." Well, I thought, wouldn't this
be a wonderful problem to have!
So now Zachary is in this program, and he plays ten times better than any
of the BEGINNING THIS YEAR fifth graders, and I feel like the principal is
keeping her administrator's eye our for any possible little mistake so she
can cut him off. Well, not with this parent. I am there to advocate for
my kid who has earned awards for citizenship, is doing just fine
academically, and wants to keep violin up in his life. I will make sure
the school gives him those opportunities.
One would think that the school would do whatever it could to support and
nurture music, but no, instead they make a huge deal out of how the fifth
graders can use POWER POINT, and making my son's class learn KEYBOARD
SKILLS and how the district just got a Gates FOundation grant to rewire
the school for technology . But banish the thought that they might
lobby the district for funds to start strings education earlier than fifth
grade if too many parents might want that.
FUCK. Vent. FUCK. Vent. FUCK. Vent.
Carlos
--
-Alternative and Trad Celtic Music with THE CELTIC NOTS
go to: celticnots.com
-THE NACHO CELTIC HOUR: Celtic, Folk, and Kids' Music on the Radio!
go to: www.kpbx.org/programs/nacho.htm
gark...@aol.com
I suspect that the laws, rules, and philosophy that place art and music
at the bottom of the educational offerings may be a trowback to the
post war era. Science and technology were going to save the world. The
need to compete with the old Soviet bloc drove much of the core
curricula in our schools. (I (think I) know, cause I was there at the
time). It seems almost paradoxical to read that scientific literacy in
our school age population is not that good, and that music and art is
falling by the wayside because of economic reasons. Looks like we're
losing the battle on all fronts. We routinely talk to our children's
teachers. They are very dedicated to doing the best they can, but too
are frustrated with the money crunch and the limited offerings they can
put before the students.
George Garklavs
> Revenue is NOT made available from the state to fund art and music
> programs at the primary level. It has to be paid for through local tax
> levy.
> This is criminal in my view.
>
> Rant over, but the fight is not.
> Bob Dorgan
>
Dick Thaxter
>I'm not snipping any of the stuff below just in case someone misses the
>original thread.
>
>
other responses are all gone from my newsreader. Thanks to Mike Pugh
for posting Cliff Stoll's interesting article about computers and education.
Here's some more off-the-cuff rambles on the topic.
I'm a liberal arts major by education, became a librarian by accident, and now
I'm a computer specialist. I've been on the bleeding edge with computers and
libraries at the Library of Congress since the early 70's. I've put four kids
through one of the most highly touted public education systems in the US--
Fairfax County, Virginia. (Actually three of them are still there (6th, 9th,
and 12th grade)
I've always been somewhat amused by the educational establishment's treatment
of computers in the classroom. Any demo that I've seen at school functions,
etc., has revealed that the folks putting these things in the classrooms were
pretty clueless about how to best utilize the technology. Cliff Stoll's observations
about their use as teaching tools are right on the mark, but luckily in our schools
the students aren't really sitting at them that often. My own kids haven't
been much affected--they all are competent at using PC's--but none are interested
in becoming techies. They seem to have accepted these things as useful tools (and
toys) On the other hand, they've probably been influenced much more by the arts
and music programs at school. Luckily we haven't seen a big cutback in these
programs in our own schools--but they have been threatened by the tight budgets
of recent times.
What I don't understand is that now that govt coffers at local, state, and national
levels are once again healthy, why do we still act like the sky is falling? We
seem to have gotten into a mindset where it's OK that they've stopped maintaining
the athletic fields and rely on booster club money for uniforms. Where private
fundraising and PTA's pay for a significant share of putting on concerts, school
plays, even buying computers and supplies for classrooms.
In the meantime the ranks of non-teaching personnel (administrators, resource
folks, counselors) seem to keep growing and growing while classroom sizes
never get any smaller. Our own elementary is over 800 kids in K-6 and brand
new schools in the county already have overflowed into trailer classrooms.
That's why every time I hear the arguments for more and more tax cuts and
voucher programs, I get a little annoyed at the short-sightedness of cutting
educational program funding.
Rant off.
Dick Thaxter
No Busking
issue, because music and the arts have made a tremendous difference in
my life. If it weren't for my own manic preoccupation with music, I'm
afraid that my children's exposure to the arts would be very limited.
Some of their friends have no exposure at all, and I find that very sad.
Next question...
What do we do now?
--
Michael Pugh
Bob Dorgan
>
> Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I'm really concerned about this
> issue, because music and the arts have made a tremendous difference in
> my life. If it weren't for my own manic preoccupation with music, I'm
> afraid that my children's exposure to the arts would be very limited.
> Some of their friends have no exposure at all, and I find that very sad.
>
> Next question...
>
> What do we do now?
We fight it one school district at a time.
Get involved at the local level.
It'll be frustrating, but the prize is worth the effort.
Bob Dorgan
Rich McCarthy
wrote:
>Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I'm really concerned about this
>issue, because music and the arts have made a tremendous difference in
>my life. If it weren't for my own manic preoccupation with music, I'm
>afraid that my children's exposure to the arts would be very limited.
>Some of their friends have no exposure at all, and I find that very sad.
>
>Next question...
>
>What do we do now?
Go into a school , and play for the kids. Make it small:: play a
classroom, rather than the school auditorium.
Bring interesting instruments and several musicians if you can. Sit
close to them, and invite questions.
My irish group does this several times a year,at grade schools (years
1-6).
We like to bring several players/instruments.
Our bouzouki player, for instance, brings his mandolin, and mandola
too. We bring a quitar, upright bass, pennywhistle or flute, hand
drums, and fiddle, depending on how many of us are available that day.
The response has been really good. Some of these kids have never seen
or heard some of these instruments!. This kind of exposure may
encourage them to seek out instruments on their own, even when the
school has little or no music program. Any exposure helps.
Rich McCarthy
Ralph
understanding of music theory, and that was comparing tones of vibrating
strings.
-Ralph
Robert McArthur wrote:
You should see these kiuds--some of
> them otherwise borderline students-- come alive when they write their own
> music or learn a fingerstyle piece on guitar. Alsao, studies have shown
> that kids involvced in music do better in math.
--
Ralph Seibert
guitar player and physics teacher
ra...@oakcottage-TX.com
http://www.oakcottage-TX.com
Ralph
butter. I can confirm what you and Wade and many of the others have
said. The state puts many limitations on what the local board of
trustees can do.
Currently, the thought that 'spending more money on education is the
key' is a popular one. Usually, that takes one of two directions. More
administrators, or more computers. Neither improves education.
I'm very leery of the notion of solving problems by throwing money at
them. The only way that could help education would be if that money
went into teachers salaries in an attempt to lure more good quality
people into the field, and that's very iffy. It would take an awful lot
of money to significantly increase salaries enough to attract people who
are put off by the working conditions, policies, discipline, etc. All
too often the new funds end up creating a new bureaucratic boodoggle.
Which leads to...
Question, "By how much has the number of people who are employed by your
school system, but do not work directly with children, increased in the
last decade (or the last several decades)?" If my district is typical,
by many hundreds percent. Going from one Superintendent and a
secretary, to 3, sometimes 4, Supers and more Directors that I can count
(ten? each of whom have secretaries and sometimes more staff) in less
than twenty years.
For the price of an Assistant Superintendent or a couple of 'Directors
of ***', you could certainly hire music and art teachers to give the
kids something substantial.
-Ralph
Wade Ramey
<ra...@oakcottage-TX.com> wrote:
> Currently, the thought that 'spending more money on education is the
> key' is a popular one. Usually, that takes one of two directions. More
> administrators, or more computers. Neither improves education.
Ralph, I would go further and contend both degrade education - at least in
the current climate.
> I'm very leery of the notion of solving problems by throwing money at
> them. The only way that could help education would be if that money
> went into teachers salaries in an attempt to lure more good quality
> people into the field, and that's very iffy. It would take an awful lot
> of money to significantly increase salaries enough to attract people who
> are put off by the working conditions, policies, discipline, etc. All
> too often the new funds end up creating a new bureaucratic boodoggle.
> Which leads to...
I'm not at all leery of "throwing money" at education. We just have to
throw it at the right targets - mainly teachers, as you've said. There's
no question we could do it effectively, but we don't want to. It will take
years, and we just can't stomach long term solutions in this country. We
go for soundbite cures to deeply entrenched problems.
Ralp, you deserve a pay raise.
Wade
Ralph
angling for. Before I got into this racket, I worked in the oil field. For
a variety of reasons I chose to become a teacher and my salary took a 50%
cut. I haven't looked back.
None of us in this field got into it for the money. That's not why we do
it. However, there are those who don't teach because it doesn't pay as well
as other fields. Some of these people might make really good teachers, and
it would be good to attract some of the best in their field. That's why I
would like to see the money redirected to teacher's pay.
In lieu of that, we really don't need more bureaucrats, or, as has been said,
more time spent teaching children to play on computers rather than teaching
them to solve hard problems.
Wade Ramey wrote:
Ralp, you deserve a pay raise.
>
> Wade
--
Wade Ramey
wra...@home.removethis.com (Wade Ramey) wrote:
> Ralp, you deserve a pay raise.
Although we'll have to cut your name.
Wade