Spray painting?
Tony Done
equipment for finishing/refinishing guitars for a long time now. Any ideas?
How about this?
http://melspray.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=268
Thanks,
Tony D
Geezer
"Tony Done" <tony...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:I0Xnh.2679$A8....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Tony,
For something the size of a guitar my personal choice would be an automotive
quality touch up spray gun and a compressor with a 7 gallon tank.
http://www.autorefinishdevilbiss.com/main.php?p=g&id=12
Geezer
Geezer
"Geezer" <NOS...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:O4Ynh.2855$rv1....@newsfe21.lga...
Forgot to add that I have a 30 year old spray gun that I've been using for
auto touch up painting and model aircraft painting for about 29 years now.
You'll probably be able to find a local distributor down your way with a
quick web search.
Dan
Tony Done
Thanks, that looks to be the kind of touch up gear I've been looking at
before. I was hoping to find something cheaper that will do the job - by the
time I've bought compressor, pot, moisture trap and hoses it starts to add
up.
I'm trying to refinish my kona, and after about six weeks and half a dozen
assorted cans of brush and spray lacquer, I've decided I'm going to have to
take a more professional approach to it. Once I have the gear though, I will
find other uses for it, maybe even earn a little pocket money on the side.
Tony D
Zeke Skarland
Tony Done wrote:
> I've been circling around the idea of getting some handyman spray painting
> equipment for finishing/refinishing guitars for a long time now. Any ideas?
>
> How about this?
I'm sure that real equipment might probably do a better job. However,
I've done great lacquer and enamel finishing with bomb cans (i.e. spray
cans). Spray cans can do a pretty good job. I don't know if real
spray equipment needs followup with hand rubbing? Depending on the
job, I've done just can spraying and been happy, sometimes rubbed it
down. With careful prep, spraying and rubbing, you can get a silky
smooth, deep, high gloss finish.
>From what I've seen on fine guitars - it doesn't seem to be anything
other than good solid basic finish technique. Of course, one would
want to avoid a thick surface.
Then the question is: can you get the material you want in a can. I
know you can get high quality lacquers and enamels and urethane.
Geezer, it sounds like you've done a lot of spray refinishing etc -
what do you think?
Tony Done
"Zeke Skarland" <zeke...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1168137790....@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
OK, I just tried again with the best spray cans I can get locally, Cabot's
oil based polyurethane. Same result as before, orange peel and spattering.
Maybe I'm not cut out for this kind of thing. I'm hoping that because spray
gun paint doesn't contain propellants to thin it down, it will be easier to
apply than spray cans.
I've come closest to success using Danish Oil (very slow drying
polyurethane) applied with a dolly, but I'm still not satisfied with the
result.
Tony D
David Hajicek
Orange peel is usually a different issue. Namely that the surface is not
clean or has some incompatibility. The method of application (sprayer) does
not solve this problem.
Clean the surface well. Things that clean well are to sand with soapy
water. Sand with mineral spirits. Wipe with pure alcohol. In some cases,
ammonia water wipe helps. Some combination of the above should do it. It
all depends on what it was contaminated with.
Dave Hajicek
"Tony Done" <tony...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:7I_nh.2820$A8....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Sacramento Dave
I just bought a gravity feed ( the cup on top) spray gun at Home depot I
think it was about 50 bucks It seems to work great. Before that I had some
cheap $20 shading gun or touch up gun I used it for years on guitars but I
dropped it actually went in two. I do have two other pretty nice cup guns
but I use them on cabinet size stuff. The main thing is learning to thin
your paints/Lacquer. I also would wonder how good a HVLP sprayer setup at
that price would be. Most the HVLP spray stuff I've seen is pretty costly.
But for that price it might worth the gamble
Sammy B...
guitars. It does well paint-wise, but I miss the old building I used to
use a few years back ( my old house before getting married ). Now , in a
new home and not doing but a couple a year, I go out in the back yard.
Most of my time is spent getting the debris out of the clear coats.
Btw, using nitrocellulose paints, I do a lot of hand rubbing and
buffing...
Sammy B
Tony Done
"Tony Done" <tony...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:I0Xnh.2679$A8....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Thanks for the advice so far. I think I have been underestimating the
difficulties in getting a good finish - the comments about preparation and
cleaning are well taken. I'm determined to crack it, so I can call myself
"builder" rather than my present title of "tinkerer".
Tony D
Mike Brown
> Tony:
>
> Orange peel is usually a different issue. Namely that the surface is not
> clean or has some incompatibility. The method of application (sprayer) does
> not solve this problem.
>
> Clean the surface well. Things that clean well are to sand with soapy
> water. Sand with mineral spirits. Wipe with pure alcohol. In some cases,
> ammonia water wipe helps. Some combination of the above should do it. It
> all depends on what it was contaminated with.
>
> Dave Hajicek
Why do most new cars have orange peel ?
MJRB
Geezer
"Zeke Skarland" <zeke...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1168137790....@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
Zeke, Tony,
I've used a lot of urethane/polyurethane paints from spray cans and they all
seem to have
too little pressure/atomization to put down a good thin coat. I've always
had to sand and polish
(even on model planes) because of runs and sags. I've not had orange peel
issues with urethanes
but I also spray in a humidity controlled environment. I've definitely had
orange peel with enamels
and it's invariably my fault. Moisture, temperature, viscosity, etc. all my
fault.
High quality laquers and enamels in a poof can? Yes.
Urethane and polyurethane? I haven't found any yet.
I'm sure you'll find that every luthier who does excellent finish work also
has top quality spray
equipment. Not necessarily the best, mind you, but top quality. And they all
most likely have to
buff/polish their finishes to get te desired results.
I included the wrong link in my earlier post...a pressure feed gun is NOT
necessary... a gravity
feed unit is more than adequate. Just make sure you have a can large enough
to hold the coating
necessary for the job you're doing. You don't want to stop to mix more paint
half way through the job.
And it hekps to have a few divverent nozzles on hand if you get a stubborn
clog...just yank off the
glogged one, re-strain your paint, install a new nozzle and shoot.
As far as moisture traps, you can plumb a simple trap yourself and fit an
auto-drain to it.
Just a U-loop with the drain at the bottom will do. There are folks who make
toilet paper moisture
traps (I have mine installed after an auto-drain for security) that are
cheap enough that you can
use two in extra humid weather. You can get a lot of additional tips from
equipment supplyers and
hobby websites...the hobbyists are invariably the best source of cheap
solutions.
Hope this helps a bit more!
Dan
McCollum
You're wrong here. Orange peel has nothing to do with contamination. It has
to do with the product being applied too thick and it dries before it gets a
chance to flow or level out. Fisheyes are from contamination. But that's a
whole different problem unto itself.
Tony - If you can't get a good finish out of a spray can, the only way you
are going to be able to get a good finish out of a gun is by learning how to
reduce the material to the right consistency, based on the weather. I also
don't believe a touch-up gun lays down enough material to do guitar bodies.
You need a full sized gun. The whole trick to getting a good gloss finish
with no orange peel or overspray, is having a full wet coat on the guitar.
I've been finishing things since I was 12 -- bicycles, cars, and now
guitars. It just takes experience. If you have a auto body painter nearby
that you can spend some time with, they can teach you how to get the right
consistency.
Good luck,
Lance
"David Hajicek" <haj...@skypoint.com> wrote in message
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McCollum
Lance
McCollum
jingle_jangle
I refinish guitars as a second career, and have been doing it for 41
years...I'm one of two shops recommended by Rickenbacker to restore and
refinish their instruments. My first career is teaching precision
modelmaking at the university level. Those are my qualifications to
give advice here.
Spray cans will give you a shiny, thin, and not-too durable finish.
There is no control over paint mix, color (WYSIWYG) or application,
beyond the old trick of soaking the can in warm water to increase the
internal pressure and improve atomization (can be dangerous), and
adjusting the spray-can-to-guitar distance.
Any urethane formula sprayed from a can is going to be inferior to a
commercial urethane, in terms of durability, as commercial urethanes
for guitar purposes should be a two-part, chemically-catalyzing system.
You can't can these--they would react and harden in the can within
hours.
The system in your link is primarily for spray tanning and other
light-duty applications. It isn't flexible enough in its adjustments to
justify the price, IMO.
If I was going budget, I'd buy a Binks 15 spray gun copy (Chinese-made)
for around $25 on Ebay, and locate a deal on a small compressor WITH A
TANK. You will end up in hock for about US$300.00...
Yeah, I know, you want cheaper. How about an automotive metaphor?
Going cheaper is like trying to drive a car with a one speed
transmission and flat tires. It'll get you there, slowly, and with a
struggle, and your experience will not be pleasant.
Painting a guitar with spray cans, on the third hand, is like
travelling on roller skates: slow and OK for short distances, but not
worth considering if you REALLY need to get there.
John Sorell
news:1168192862.3...@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com:
>
> I refinish guitars as a second career, and have been doing it for 41
> years...I'm one of two shops recommended by Rickenbacker to restore and
> refinish their instruments. My first career is teaching precision
> modelmaking at the university level. Those are my qualifications to
> give advice here.
If being qualified is requirement for giving advice here we would lose
3/4 of the posters here.
John
hank alrich
> If being qualified is requirement for giving advice here we would lose
> 3/4 of the posters here.
Shut up.
Thank you.
--
ha
"Iraq" is Arabic for "Vietnam"
Tony Done
"Tony Done" <tony...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:I0Xnh.2679$A8....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
OK, thanks again.
I don't hear any of you telling me there is an cheap, easy answer. I checked
compressors recently, and the handyman cheapos don't seem to have enough
flow rate to operate a full size spray gun. I might try the cheap hvlp I
linked, in spite of the advice against it. I've already spent that much on
spray cans trying to get this bloody finish right. You never know, it might
work, I might put Lance out of business and pigs might learn to fly.
I'll keep you all posted.
Tony D
Harvey Leach
I have both (turbine and compressor guns) and I really find the turbine has
several advantages. First there isn't an issue with water, the turbine
doesn't compress air so there is no condensation plus if it runs for a few
minutes it sprays with warm air (a HUGE advantage on those cold rainy days)
Second it's all-in-one meaning you can stash the whole thing on a shelf
somewhere when you're not using it (you can also take it anywhere an
extension cord will reach and spray)
The drawbacks are it's a little clumsy with the big hose and good guns are
expensive. The hose issue isn't that big of a deal unless you plan on
spraying cars in your spare time, spraying guitars you really don't need to
move the gun very far. There are some inexpensive guns out there but I
haven't found one for less than $200.00 that works as well as the original
one I bought 15 years ago (made by Binks) Also, for me anyway, the hose
needs to attach below the grip, ones that attach at the top are a pain and
really off balanced for me, all of the cheaper guns seem to be on top. Even
so an inexpensive outfit is better than a rattle can.... and you can always
buy a better gun later.
I also have the compressor guns, I like to use the Harbor Freight guns for
spraying other things besides lacquer (like the 2 or 3 part catalyzed
finishes) because they seem to work OK and when you inevitably (at least for
me anyway...) leave the finish in there and it turns to stone you're only
out $50.00. The other reason I like the compressor guns is because that
means you have a compressor! which has a lot of other uses.
Either way, if it were me I'd bite the bullet and pay to get something of
quality, it will pay for itself in the long run.
Harv
--
Visit Leach Guitars website at
http://www.leachguitars.com
"Tony Done" <tony...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:sGcoh.3087$A8....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
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jingle_jangle
do I!
I have to disagree about the turbine guns. Good for fences and
Peterbilt trucks, but not for guitars and other such small and finicky
projects.
And I think ignoring advice is the best way to waste money and time
going down the wrong path with a broken walking stick...
Just because a cheap rig that does passable work can be had for around
$300.00, it does not follow that spending 1/3 of that will give you
acceptable results with a bit more work or by adjusting technique.
Yes, I'm passionate about this.
--Senhor California
Harvey Leach
news:1168291842....@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
> I have to disagree about the turbine guns. Good for fences and
> Peterbilt trucks, but not for guitars and other such small and finicky
> projects.
attention...attention... attention....
For some reason I was not given this information 35 years ago when I started
building guitars!!! since many of the guitars I've built were sprayed with
my HVLP Turbine unit I feel it is my obligation as a respected member of the
luthier fraternity to recall all of the 400 or so guitars I have built so I
can refinish them all. Had I known that turbine sprayers could only be used
for fences and Peterbilt trucks I would have become either a fence painter
of a truck refinisher (Question: Mr. jingle... can the turbine be used only
for Peterbilts or can I do Macks as well??? also, my turbine only has an 8'
cord and a 10' hose, so should I buy an extension cord or just spray 18'
fences??? I await your reply before proceeding with my new career...)
Harv
p.s. I am currently working on a pair of guitars that will retail for over
$100k.... I better use my Harbor Freight gun for those.....
--
Visit Leach Guitars website at
http://www.leachguitars.com
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don hindenach
> "jingle_jangle" <managing...@conceptcar.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1168291842....@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I have to disagree about the turbine guns. Good for fences and
> > Peterbilt trucks, but not for guitars and other such small and finicky
> > projects.
>
>
>
> attention...attention... attention....
>
> For some reason I was not given this information 35 years ago when I started
> building guitars!!! since many of the guitars I've built were sprayed with
> my HVLP Turbine unit I feel it is my obligation as a respected member of the
> luthier fraternity to recall all of the 400 or so guitars I have built so I
> can refinish them all. Had I known that turbine sprayers could only be used
> for fences and Peterbilt trucks I would have become either a fence painter
> of a truck refinisher (Question: Mr. jingle... can the turbine be used only
> for Peterbilts or can I do Macks as well??? also, my turbine only has an 8'
> cord and a 10' hose, so should I buy an extension cord or just spray 18'
> fences??? I await your reply before proceeding with my new career...)
>
>
> Harv
>
> p.s. I am currently working on a pair of guitars that will retail for over
> $100k.... I better use my Harbor Freight gun for those.....
>
noooooooooooooooooooooooo! I can't let then go for that long!
how about I just teach them to cuss, gossip, and chaw tobaccy?
--
-donh-
donh at audiosys dot com
John Sorell
news:1168341...@sp6iad.superfeed.net:
> "jingle_jangle" <managing...@conceptcar.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1168291842....@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I have to disagree about the turbine guns. Good for fences and
>> Peterbilt trucks, but not for guitars and other such small and
>> finicky projects.
>
>
>
> attention...attention... attention....
>
> For some reason I was not given this information 35 years ago when I
> started building guitars!!! since many of the guitars I've built were
> sprayed with my HVLP Turbine unit I feel it is my obligation as a
> respected member of the luthier fraternity to recall all of the 400 or
> so guitars I have built so I can refinish them all. Had I known that
> turbine sprayers could only be used for fences and Peterbilt trucks I
> would have become either a fence painter of a truck refinisher
> (Question: Mr. jingle... can the turbine be used only for Peterbilts
> or can I do Macks as well??? also, my turbine only has an 8' cord and
> a 10' hose, so should I buy an extension cord or just spray 18'
> fences??? I await your reply before proceeding with my new career...)
>
>
> Harv
>
> p.s. I am currently working on a pair of guitars that will retail for
> over $100k.... I better use my Harbor Freight gun for those.....
>
Do you want me to use FedEx or UPS for my archtop? Send charge number...
John
Tony Done
"Harvey Leach" <lea...@netshel.net> wrote in message
news:1168341...@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
<grin> I think I'll buy the handyman turbine gun, as planned.
Tony D
Greg Thomas
John Sorell wrote:
> If being qualified is requirement for giving advice here we would lose
> 3/4 of the posters here.
>
> John
>
I resent that. I'm plenty qualified . . . just not in any area we would
normally discuss in polite company . . .
Greg
jingle_jangle
I didn't realize this was a "I can top that" kind of forum. If I was't
the strong-willed, experienced and opinionated cuss that I am, I'd
probably tuck my tail back into my overalls and slink off to
gawrsh-knows-where, but...
You know the answers to your sarcastic questions and suggestions, so I
won't waste time.
I politely disagreed with you. I did not sign up for "Grief 101".
At any rate, I hope our friend in Oz will discover his preferences and
sharpen his skills so he can get 50% of the satisfaction and joy that I
do, building and finishing guitars.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/jangle_jingle/special%20acoustics/DSC00293.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/jangle_jingle/special%20acoustics/DSC00076.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/jangle_jingle/special%20acoustics/DSC00077.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/jangle_jingle/special%20acoustics/DSC00126.jpg
Misifus
> Sorry, Harv.
>
> I didn't realize this was a "I can top that" kind of forum. If I was't
> the strong-willed, experienced and opinionated cuss that I am, I'd
> probably tuck my tail back into my overalls and slink off to
> gawrsh-knows-where, but...
>
> You know the answers to your sarcastic questions and suggestions, so I
> won't waste time.
>
> I politely disagreed with you. I did not sign up for "Grief 101".
>
I don't think Harv was trying to one-up you so much as establish his
credentials as a very experienced luthier whose work commands
substantial prices. I took it as a reply to the rather forceful tone of
your post which appeared to brook no argument.
-Raf
--
Misifus-
Rafael Seibert
mailto:rafse...@suddenlink.net
blog: http://rafsrincon.blogspot.com/
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafiii
home: http://www.rafandsioux.com
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
The Repair Guy
The wood looks dirty in the blueburst. Is that just the
angle or the lighting?
The Repair Guy
repairguy1993 dot netfirms dot com