Truss Rod Length?
DanielleOM
I purchased a low cost Simon and Patrick guitar for my one daughter for
XMAS. I was surprised to see that the truss rod runs the full length of the
fretboard and is readilly accessible right at the sound board opening.
I find myself wondering about the pros and cons of this approach. I used to
seeing short truss rods that do not extend under the upper part of the fret
board.
For a low cost guitar I thought it was quite well setup off the shelf.
Danielle
David Hajicek
"DanielleOM" <danie...@reply.to.group.com> wrote in message
news:hhj9uk$q19$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
rod runs up all the way to the nut? Or are you saying it runs under the top
of the guitar and is accessible at the sound hole?
The first case is fairly normal and desirable. The truss rod needs some
distance over which to act and you want the greatest effect somewhere around
the 5th to 7th fret. To get useful effect at the 5th fret, the truss rod
has to go fairly far forward.
The other option would be unusual and probably not desirable as it would
cause the fingerboard to want to collapse into the guitar. But a lot
depends on how the truss rod is actually made and looks could be deceiving.
Dave Hajicek
DanielleOM
"David Hajicek" <haj...@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:v9GdnbSqOYxr1KDW...@skypoint.com...
Hi David
Here's a link to the small guitar that I bought her.
http://www.simonandpatrick.com/woodlandfolkcedar.htm This was an impulse
buy for me. The allen key adjustment is right at edge of the sound hole.
The truss rod runs all the way up under the fretboard including the portion
that lies over the guitar top. I am now 500 miles away from the guitar. In
hindsight I do not know if this really effects the upper part of the fret
board or not. However it was set up nicely with the upper part part of the
fretboard pretty well in line with the rest of the fretboard. No dip in the
fretboard where it goes over the guitar top. I was rather surprised that I
could buy a $350 guitar new manufactured in Canada.
Danielle
gregz
That was a pretty good choice; if I were buying one of their brand lines
it would be a folk in some configuration. Don't know much about the
truss rod situation, but they do make some good stuff. Enjoy it.
Z
Sikora Family
Actually, not that unusual.. Many guitar builders have been using that
arrangement for a good many years. All of my acoustics, a Yairi, an
Alvarez, a Larrivee, a baby Taylor and a Silver Creek, use that method.
It prevents having a cap on the headstock. It works just fine.
Charlie Sikora :)
--
It's not dating advice, but take out "pam" to reply.
LA
> David Hajicek wrote:
> > "DanielleOM" <daniell...@reply.to.group.com> wrote in message
Seems to have worked out for Martin too.
LA
DanielleOM
"Sikora Family" <chas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hhl2sn$da$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Actually it's the length that's different. Although my Santa Cruz OM fret
rod adjustment is accessed through the sound hole, the adjustment is well
inside the guitar, approximately under the 15th fret. With this little
Simon Patrick guitar it was under the last fret, approximately 20th fret.
It's the comparision these two configurations that I found to be curious.
Danielle
Misifus
I haven't examined my Seagull (a cousin to your Simon and Patrick) with
regard to the truss rod, but it occurs to me that, although the wrench
fitting may be close to the soundhole, the bearing surface may well be
back by the neck block. Think in terms of a very long nut, reaching
from the base of the neck to the soundhole.
-Raf
--
Misifus-
Rafael Seibert
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafiii
home: http://www.rafandsioux.com
Sikora Family
>
> Actually it's the length that's different. Although my Santa Cruz OM
> fret rod adjustment is accessed through the sound hole, the adjustment
> is well inside the guitar, approximately under the 15th fret. With this
> little Simon Patrick guitar it was under the last fret, approximately
> 20th fret. It's the comparision these two configurations that I found to
> be curious.
>
>
> Danielle
On the Larrivee, it is well back into the body. They provide a special
tool to reach in there. But on the other 3, it is just inside the sound
hole. The Yairi has been with me since 1983. There are no issues with
the truss rod at all. I think it is as Raf said. The location of the
access does not necessarily determine where the truss rod is active. It
sure is a lot easier to adjust with the access closer to the sound hole!
Charlie (not that I adjust them that often) Sikora :)
hmem...@aol.com
wrote:
Danielle,
Truss rods that are accessible through the sound hole have been in
existance a long time. The small hole that you're seeing is a long
Allen headed nut that attaches to the rod further down the neck.
Martin was one of the first large builders to use it and for good
reason: When you have a very identifiable headstock and you don't want
to mess with the look, you make the truss rod work from the other end.
It's not even worth thinking about. You like the guitar, buy it.
Regards,
Howard
http://www.howardemerson.com/
Misifus
I've examined my Seagull with an inspection mirror. It seems to have
the same feature you describe on your Simon and Patrick, the adjustment
fitting for the truss rod is just inside the soundhole. The mirror
doesn't reveal the details of the the truss rod, like all such, it's
fully enclosed.
However, these instruments are well established. They've been made much
the same for years, and have an excellent reputation. I wouldn't worry
about it, it'll work fine.
Sikora Family
I don't have any Martin experience.
Amen to what Howard said.
Charlie (from the choir) Sikora :)
DanielleOM
FYI, I already bought the guitar while visiting with my daughter before
making the original post. Hopefully she is enjoying it.
Danielle
David Hajicek
"Misifus" <rafse...@att.net> wrote in message
news:7q6njj...@mid.individual.net...
What Raf describes is what I meant by looks can be deceiving. I think I was
tired, I could have been more clear. As has been pointed out, Martin uses
this configuration and the actual truss rod stops at about the 16th fret,
where it is not an issue and not active because of the design. So don't
worry about it.
Dave Hajicek
Misifus
Also, Martin had non-adjustable truss rods for many years before they
added the adjustment capability. By making the adjustment through the
sound hole, the headstock remained unchanged, as you said.
David Hajicek
<hmem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bb994899-e5c4-4c86...@26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 31 2009, 5:52?pm, "DanielleOM" <daniell...@reply.to.group.com>
wrote:
> I purchased a low cost Simon and Patrick guitar for my one daughter for
> fretboard and is readilly accessible right at the sound board opening.
>
> seeing short truss rods that do not extend under the upper part of the
> fret
> board.
>
> For a low cost guitar I thought it was quite well setup off the shelf.
>
> Danielle
Danielle,
Truss rods that are accessible through the sound hole have been in
existance a long time. The small hole that you're seeing is a long
Allen headed nut that attaches to the rod further down the neck.
Martin was one of the first large builders to use it and for good
reason: When you have a very identifiable headstock and you don't want
to mess with the look, you make the truss rod work from the other end.
It's not even worth thinking about. You like the guitar, buy it.
Regards,
Howard
http://www.howardemerson.com/
==================
Howard is correct. Another problem is that to get access to the adjusting
nut at the pegboard end, a significant amount of wood is removed. Some
designs are better than others, but in any case, it causes a weak point at
the peg head to become even more weak. The counter argument is that
adjustment is easier from the peghead end. The counter argument to that is
that a special Alan wrench will help on the sound hole form of adjustment.
The peghead weakness can be overcome when building a guitar by adding some
carbon fiber to reinforce the area. But that would be more of a custom
guitar type thing.
Dave Hajicek
Mike Brown
All of my truss rods adjust through the sound hole, but I got the
impression that the OP said that the Allen head was "just inside the
sound hole". All of mine are well back on the heel block and some are
fairly tricky to reach or even see.
MJRB
Cliff
through a hole in my top.
HNY
8¬)
C.
John Sorell
ca6615...@a15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
Starting the New Year off on a randy note, eh?
John
Misifus
On my Seagull, the truss rod fitting is about 1/4 inch from the edge of
the soundhole. It's very close, but, it seems to be the head of a
rather long nut on the rod itself.
persisten...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Nah..Cliff's just making sure we stay off-topic.
Larrivee use the same (adjustable from the soundhole) setup. Whilst I
like their guitars I find it a PITA. For the sake of a little bit of
extra timber at the peg-end of the neck you can tweak the action
without having to take the strings off (how can you adjust the action
with the strings off? That's a job for people with good eyesight and
Special Luthiery Equipment!).
Peghead access means you can give the truss rod a tweak at home - and
if it doesn't go right then spend the money and get a pro to do it
properly.
I appreciate Dave H's remarks about not weakening the (already)
weakest part of the guitar, though.
Pete
Cliff
> >Starting the New Year off on a randy note, eh?
>
> >John
>
> Nah..Cliff's just making sure we stay off-topic.
>
> Larrivee use the same (adjustable from the soundhole) setup. Whilst I
> like their guitars I find it a PITA. For the sake of a little bit of
> extra timber at the peg-end of the neck you can tweak the action
> without having to take the strings off (how can you adjust the action
> with the strings off? That's a job for people with good eyesight and
> Special Luthiery Equipment!).
>
> Peghead access means you can give the truss rod a tweak at home - and
> if it doesn't go right then spend the money and get a pro to do it
> properly.
>
> I appreciate Dave H's remarks about not weakening the (already)
> weakest part of the guitar, though.
>
> Pete
True....but if you just loosen the strings right off....you can get
yer hand in there to tweak it, without actually removing the strings.
The stupid thing i did, was manage to lose the actual Larrivee Truss-
rod tool that came with the guitar, and now i've buggered up the hex /
allen screw by using the wrong size allen key on it.
Brian Trepanier at Larrivee said he'd send me a new one for $22 inc.
shipping. That was back in 2006. I never took him him up.
I've got round that prob mostly by filing down a 5mm ( ?) key that
will get in and turn it....but i do wish mine had the type that runs
all the way through to the cross-bracing ( ?)
Some luthiers don't like this idea, because they think it weakens that
strut.....but i'd be willing to chance it for the ease of access.
The homemade 12 fretter i built in 1997 is a nightmare to adjust, it's
just so awkward to get at.
Although you have a point about the headstock type of access Pete, i
prefer, aesthetically, not to have that truss rod cover there, just
looks a little clumsy.
c.
Tony Done
"Cliff" <clif...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:afc55f31-b2d1-4027...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
<g> Pete's a wimp. You shove the Allen key between the strings at full
tension and just push 'em out of the way as you crank it up. It's as easy as
taking those little screws out of truss rod cover.
Tony D
Sikora Family
The Larrivee and baby Taylor are set back. The Yairi, Alvarez and
Silver Creek are right at the sound hole. That bit of extension makes
it easy to tweak.
Charlie (not that I tweak the often) Sikora :)
Sikora Family
> Nah..Cliff's just making sure we stay off-topic.
>
> Larrivee use the same (adjustable from the soundhole) setup. Whilst I
> like their guitars I find it a PITA. For the sake of a little bit of
> extra timber at the peg-end of the neck you can tweak the action
> without having to take the strings off (how can you adjust the action
> with the strings off? That's a job for people with good eyesight and
> Special Luthiery Equipment!).
>
> Peghead access means you can give the truss rod a tweak at home - and
> if it doesn't go right then spend the money and get a pro to do it
> properly.
>
> I appreciate Dave H's remarks about not weakening the (already)
> weakest part of the guitar, though.
>
> Pete
With my Yairi, Alvarez and Silver Creek, the adjustment is extended to
just within the sound hole. Fairly easy to tweak with the strings at
full tension. The Larrivee and bay Taylor are set back into the guitar.
They require special tools and great patience.
Charlie (I like easy) Sikora :)
John Sorell
news:oe7uj5tk6sgfd8en0...@4ax.com:
> On 2 Jan 2010 00:01:26 GMT, John Sorell <j.sorel...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Cliff <clif...@ntlworld.com> wrote in news:8c986691-7ded-4fa1-9b8d-
>>ca6615...@a15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> You can trust my rod length, Danielle, ....and you can access it
>>> through a hole in my top.
>>>
>>> HNY
>>> 8�)
>>>
>>> C.
>>>
>>
>>Starting the New Year off on a randy note, eh?
>>
>>John
>
> Nah..Cliff's just making sure we stay off-topic.
I have no problem with randy notes.
John
persisten...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Watch out when you're dealing with Trepanier - you might end up with a
hole in your head...
P
Cliff
> Watch out when you're dealing with Trepanier - you might end up with a
> hole in your head...
>
> P
Que?
c.
Mike Brown
Don't mind him, he's from Barcelona.
MJRB
Cliff
There's certainly a few 'Flowery Twats' in this group
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q9oNAkpc7Y
The Major