Graph tech nut or Slip stone--and what adhesive???
Pilgrim
I am probably going to be replacing a plastic nut on my electric guitar
w/ a graph tech nut and was wondering what adhesive i should use for
this. I have made bone and tusq nuts from blanks before but am
completely unfamiliar w/ the graph tech. Can anyone tell me if the
process differs. Also on stew macs site i notice something called
slipstone--made from delrin. Is this any good or preferable to the graph
tech for the following application...
The guitar is a yamaha pacifica 812w, with wilkison trem and sperzel
locking tuners.
Thanks so much!
Pilgrim
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
*please remove the x's before and after address to reply*
I am a pilgrim and a stranger travelling through this wearsome land
I've got a home in that yonder city good Lord
And it's not... not made by hand
Stan Gosnell
news:vxW8a.120776$_9.5...@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com:
> Hello,
>
> I am probably going to be replacing a plastic nut on my electric guitar
> w/ a graph tech nut and was wondering what adhesive i should use for
> this. I have made bone and tusq nuts from blanks before but am
> completely unfamiliar w/ the graph tech. Can anyone tell me if the
> process differs. Also on stew macs site i notice something called
> slipstone--made from delrin. Is this any good or preferable to the graph
> tech for the following application...
A properly fitted nut really doesn't need any adhesive, but you can use a
little aliphatic resin glue if you want, such as Titebond. Don't use more
than a small drop, though. You don't want the nut to be permanently glued
in, you'll eventually need to replace it.
Delrin is a plastic, often used for knife handles. It's hard. I've never
used it for a nut, but it should work fine, as will the Graphtech.
--
Regards,
Stan
Chris Johnson
I've been a fan of Corian for years. I've made hundreds of nuts out of
the stuff and I'd rate it very highly IF you take the time to properly
size and polish the string slots. Corian slots should be slightly
wider than bone, melamine, or graphite nut slots, but if you cut them
a little wider, they're as good as just about anything else, and they
seem to last as long as anything else, too. And Corian dust doesn't
stink or cause cancer!
Delrin, at least the Delrin I've used in some applications, isn't THAT
hard. In my opinion it's maybe a little TOO soft to make a good nut.
But then again, there may be harder grades than any of the stuff I've
used to date. I use Delrin rods to make side dot markers and the
stuff (from Stewart-MacDonald) is distinctly soft. It deforms easily
with a light squeeze from a small pair of pliers. I wouldn't use that
for a nut.
CJ
Pilgrim
I have considered getting some bone, delrin, corian, tusq and, graph
tech and just try'em all. Really see which sounds best to me head to
head. The guitar is new for me so once i go thru the set-up, nut making
i shoul;d be set for a good while. I like Tusq, and bone from previous
installs. But i thought perhaps the graph tech might go well with the
trem/tuner setup.
Peace,
Pilgrim
"Chris Johnson" <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3E655A6B...@cfl.rr.com...
:
:
:
Ed
Mine recently came loose during a ridiculous two step bend (this is one
reason why I like fat necks).
Would a couple dabs of Elmer's wood glue work okay?
Stan Gosnell
news:b44shg$3nv$1...@cobalt01.janis.or.jp:
Yes, that's aliphatic resin glue. Actually, I think most any glue will
work, as long as you use just a drop or so, because it's not critical that
the bond be very strong, just enough to keep the nut from falling out. I
have several instruments, with the nut snug in the slot, with no glue at
all. Of course, I don't try two-step bends, either.
--
Regards,
Stan
Mark Howell
"Stan Gosnell" <sgos...@autorotate.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9335751...@204.52.135.10...
Glue is necessary with these, since the nut just butts up
against the end of the fretboard.
Stan Gosnell
news:_uw9a.42402$x.1...@nwrdny01.gnilink.net:
> Many guitars, such as my Ric, don't have nut slots.
> Glue is necessary with these, since the nut just butts up
> against the end of the fretboard.
No, that's a nut slot. The slot on the rear isn't very deep, but it's
there. And the nut will stay in place from string tension if the slot is
the correct size (or the nut is the correct size for the slot). If the
slot and nut are the proper size, giving a slight press fit, it won't come
out even with the strings removed. Most luthiers put just a dab of glue
there anyway, just to make sure. The important thing is not to fill the
slot with glue, because eventually the nut will have to come out.
--
Regards,
Stan
Kurt Kurosawa
> The important thing is not to fill the
> slot with glue, because eventually the nut will have to come out.
Yeah, I heard all I had to do was hit the nut with heat from a hair dryer
and it would slide right out, but this one (MIJ Squier P) came out only in
little pieces, and I'm waiting for a nut slot file to get the rest off the
floor of the slot.
A few puzzling nut questions for my P I've been posting all over trying to
find the answer for:
1) The shape of the nut slot is interesting to me. I am cutting the slots
.046 .065 .085 .106" for my largest string set, but will also be playing a
.043 .051 .068 .089 set and I don't want any buzz. Just cutting the nut
normally, I have found it necessary to angle the slot down so the string
doesn't touch the back edge of the nut. For this multi-gauge slotting, I am
thinking I ought to curve the slot gently down from the bridge edge of the
nut to the headstock edge to try to maintain full contact with the smaller
strings to guide and keep them from buzzing against the sides of the slot.
Any thoughts?
2) What's the string spacing at the nut for a Fender B (1 5/8" width) neck?
Center of E to center of G will do me.
3) When spacing the E and G strings in from the outside edges of the nut,
should I be bringing the outside edges of the strings inboard an equal
distance from the edge?
TIA, Kurt
Mark Howell
last picture under 'Dakota' here:
http://community.webshots.com/user/skidmark316
BTW, Elmer's wood glue didn't bond too well to the Graphtech nut, so
I used a very small amount of superglue.
Stan Gosnell
news:AfH9a.148451$4F3.9...@news2.east.cox.net:
>
> "Stan Gosnell" <sgos...@autorotate.org> wrote in message
> news:Xns9335C70...@204.52.135.10...
>> The important thing is not to fill the
>> slot with glue, because eventually the nut will have to come out.
>
> Yeah, I heard all I had to do was hit the nut with heat from a hair
> dryer and it would slide right out, but this one (MIJ Squier P) came
> out only in little pieces, and I'm waiting for a nut slot file to get
> the rest off the floor of the slot.
That's what happens when you really glue the nut in. A pair of nippers,
used gently, will sometimes get the nut out.
> A few puzzling nut questions for my P I've been posting all over
> trying to find the answer for:
>
> 1) The shape of the nut slot is interesting to me. I am cutting the
> slots .046 .065 .085 .106" for my largest string set, but will also be
> playing a .043 .051 .068 .089 set and I don't want any buzz. Just
> cutting the nut normally, I have found it necessary to angle the slot
> down so the string doesn't touch the back edge of the nut. For this
> multi-gauge slotting, I am thinking I ought to curve the slot gently
> down from the bridge edge of the nut to the headstock edge to try to
> maintain full contact with the smaller strings to guide and keep them
> from buzzing against the sides of the slot. Any thoughts?
See www.frets.com for how to carve a nut, & anything else you might want to
know about stringed instruments.
> 2) What's the string spacing at the nut for a Fender B (1 5/8" width)
> neck? Center of E to center of G will do me.
I don't know. I don't play bass at all.
> 3) When spacing the E and G strings in from the outside edges of the
> nut, should I be bringing the outside edges of the strings inboard an
> equal distance from the edge?
That's how I do it, but not everyone does. It's possible to space the
centers of the strings evenly, but I prefer equal spacing between the edges
of the strings. There's no law saying you have to do it either way.
Again, see www.frets.com
--
Regards,
Stan
Stan Gosnell
> "Mark Howell" <mjho...@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:_uw9a.42402$x.1...@nwrdny01.gnilink.net:
>
>> Many guitars, such as my Ric, don't have nut slots.
>> Glue is necessary with these, since the nut just butts up
>> against the end of the fretboard.
>
> No, that's a nut slot. The slot on the rear isn't very deep, but it's
> there. And the nut will stay in place from string tension if the slot
> is the correct size (or the nut is the correct size for the slot). If
> the slot and nut are the proper size, giving a slight press fit, it
> won't come out even with the strings removed. Most luthiers put just
> a dab of glue there anyway, just to make sure. The important thing is
> not to fill the slot with glue, because eventually the nut will have
> to come out.
>
Usenet must have slipped a cog again. I'm seeing lots of duplicate posts.
--
Regards,
Stan
Kurt Kurosawa
> > A few puzzling nut questions for my P I've been posting all over
> > trying to find the answer for:
> >
> > 1) The shape of the nut slot is interesting to me. I am cutting the
> > slots .046 .065 .085 .106" for my largest string set, but will also be
> > playing a .043 .051 .068 .089 set and I don't want any buzz. Just
> > cutting the nut normally, I have found it necessary to angle the slot
> > down so the string doesn't touch the back edge of the nut. For this
> > multi-gauge slotting, I am thinking I ought to curve the slot gently
> > down from the bridge edge of the nut to the headstock edge to try to
> > maintain full contact with the smaller strings to guide and keep them
> > from buzzing against the sides of the slot. Any thoughts?
>
> See www.frets.com for how to carve a nut, & anything else you might want
to
> know about stringed instruments.
Thanks, yep, it's a really great page; didn't find my answers but learned a
lot anyway.
My main worry has to do with downward pressure. I have almost no significant
downward pressure on the E and A strings due to Leo Fender's decision to
save some wood by using an offset, but unangled headstock. The string
tension appears to too-easily overcome whatever small forces keep the
strings in place at the nut. I am trying to think this through to make the
nut an active participant in immobilizing the string at the nut. I am not
sure of the behavior of a string, but I think I remember that it travels
orbitally. That makes the looseness of the slot using smaller strings a real
problem. The only help I can conceive of to limit the string's sideways
moment is to have it lay in full contact with the slot, and as a straight
slot would necessitate the string making two abrupt (though obtuse) bends,
that contact is not likely to happen. However if the slot were humped just a
tiny bit in the middle, lower than the bridge edge of course, and not so low
at the headstock edge that the string would depart the bottom of the slot in
its run to the tuning head shaft, maybe it would be kept in place better.
My problem is really that of understanding the forces at work at the nut
when a note begins. If I had a solid understanding of what happens at the
nut and the relative influence of the various forces, I might have a good
shot at solving this.
Mark Howell
Stan Gosnell
> My main worry has to do with downward pressure. I have almost no
> significant downward pressure on the E and A strings due to Leo
> Fender's decision to save some wood by using an offset, but unangled
> headstock. The string tension appears to too-easily overcome whatever
> small forces keep the strings in place at the nut. I am trying to
> think this through to make the nut an active participant in
> immobilizing the string at the nut. I am not sure of the behavior of a
> string, but I think I remember that it travels orbitally. That makes
> the looseness of the slot using smaller strings a real problem. The
> only help I can conceive of to limit the string's sideways moment is
> to have it lay in full contact with the slot, and as a straight slot
> would necessitate the string making two abrupt (though obtuse) bends,
> that contact is not likely to happen. However if the slot were humped
> just a tiny bit in the middle, lower than the bridge edge of course,
> and not so low at the headstock edge that the string would depart the
> bottom of the slot in its run to the tuning head shaft, maybe it would
> be kept in place better.
A properly fitted Fender nut should stay in place with no glue & no
strings. That said, it's usual to use a drop or so of glue. I think the
highest point in the nut slot should be at the front, tapering down
slightly toward the rear. Having the center highest often results in
buzzing, & you really don't want the rear edge highest. There isn't a huge
amount of down pressure from the treble strings, but that's why Leo (or
someone) invented string tees.
The slot should be just a couple of thousandths wider than the string, so
if you install much lighter strings you might get some buzzing on open
notes. The best thing is to settle on one gauge of strings, but you should
be able to get by with what you want to do.
--
Regards,
Stan
Stan Gosnell
> Sorry Stan, there is *no* nut slot. If you don't believe me, look at
> the last picture under 'Dakota' here:
> http://community.webshots.com/user/skidmark316
Well, there are different ways of doing it, but that's not the usual way, &
I don't think I would want to do it that way. YMMV.
> BTW, Elmer's wood glue didn't bond too well to the Graphtech nut, so
> I used a very small amount of superglue.
You don't want it bonded too well, but CA is useful for lots of things on
guitars.
--
Regards,
Stan
Stan Gosnell
> "Mark Howell" <mjho...@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:_uw9a.42402$x.1...@nwrdny01.gnilink.net:
>
>> Many guitars, such as my Ric, don't have nut slots.
>> Glue is necessary with these, since the nut just butts up
>> against the end of the fretboard.
>
> No, that's a nut slot. The slot on the rear isn't very deep, but it's
> there. And the nut will stay in place from string tension if the slot
> is the correct size (or the nut is the correct size for the slot). If
> the slot and nut are the proper size, giving a slight press fit, it
> won't come out even with the strings removed. Most luthiers put just
> a dab of glue there anyway, just to make sure. The important thing is
> not to fill the slot with glue, because eventually the nut will have
> to come out.
>
Usenet must have slipped a cog again. I'm seeing lots of duplicate posts.
--
Regards,
Stan
Pilgrim
Thanks,
Pilgrim
"Stan Gosnell" <sgos...@autorotate.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9336CA9...@204.52.135.10...
: "Mark Howell" <mjho...@verizon.net> wrote in
:
Cornelius J Rat
"Pilgrim" <xwhat...@sonsong.com> wrote in message
news:7PW9a.24328$NX4....@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com...
> What is CA?
>
Cyano-Acrylate (superglue)
Pilgrim
Thanks,
Pilgrim
"Cornelius J Rat" <corneli...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3e686...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
:
: "Pilgrim" <xwhat...@sonsong.com> wrote in message
:
:
ts duke
"Stan Gosnell" <sgos...@autorotate.org> wrote in message
>
> Usenet must have slipped a cog again. I'm seeing lots of duplicate posts.
>
i haven't seen any untill now! weird!
David Hajicek
a nut). Delrin (I have lots of it around for other things) is too soft (and
light weight) and the string will imbed itself into the nut over time.
Dave Hajicek
"Chris Johnson" <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3E655A6B...@cfl.rr.com...
>
>
Jack
sgos...@autorotate.org says...
> You don't want it bonded too well, but CA is useful for lots of things on
> guitars.
Don't sweat if it's bonded too well with CA (aka superglue). That bond
CAN be broken. There are de-bonders on the market. I keep a bottle of
debonder around for when I work on my model trains - helps when you glue
your fingers together.
--
de N2MPU Jack FN20
Modeling the NYC and NYNH&H in HO and CPRail and D&H in N
Proud NRA member
You can learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.com/
Kurt Kurosawa
>
> A properly fitted Fender nut should stay in place with no glue & no
> strings.
Thanks for the tip, works great; also per your suggestion, have made nuts
within .001" per string for my two favorite (and very differently gauged)
string sets. Easy swapping.