sources for decals?
Kevin Hall
the guitars and ukes I build. They're the same sort Martin used prior to
the introduction of those mylar peel-and-stick jobs. When you lacquer over
them they end up flush, rather than lumpy like the new jobs.
The fire we had about 3 years ago ate all but a handful of my old decals,
and now I'm out of 'em but my old supplier is no longer in business.
If anyone here has a source for such things I'd be greatful to hear about
it.
Thanks,
KH
Alan D.
Good luck with that Kevin. I went through looking for water glides, the good
kind with the tapered edges that you don't have to cut out and leave a sharp
edge, about 8 years ago and finally gave up, I do all inlay now. There was some
usenet group that was doing something with old no-longer-available Mac printers
and waterglide decal material but it was water soluable after the fact and not
color fast. Also you had to shellac over them first if you were going to shoot
lacquer or they would melt. The decal was also about 0.020" thick so you had to
build up a pretty heavy finish on the headstock in order to sand back level.
If you ever locate anything please post it up here for the rest of us.
Laters,
Alan D.
Steve
http://www.water-decals.com/inkjet_paper.html
I bought a 20-pack of 8-1/2 x 11 sheets about 4 years ago, and haven't
even used half of that yet - but like Alan I inlay a lot of logos these
days
I print them on my Canon inkjet printer using the glossy photo settings,
then I shoot a couple of light coats of lacquer or polyurethane over it
(depending on what the neck is finished with) and let that dry before I
put the decal in water.
The film is thick enough that I have to put on many coats of finish over
the decal to eliminate that edge as much as possible, sanding between
coats to try to minimize tha edge.
--Roseville Steve
Alan D. wrote:
Steve
decals for sale on Ebay, but I wanted my logo in silver, so he did some
for me - I think he charged me $15 for them. His email is:
brauskoh at hotmail dot com
His name is Trey Hays.
--Roseville Steve
Kevin Hall
may well be a thing of the past. Don't know what Martin are going to do
for decals for restos down the line. I recently got a couple from them for
two old D-28s on which I'm doing full restorations, and on the first pass
they sent me those wretched peel-and-stick deals which are completely
unsuitable for a '54 and a '71. In the end they sorted it out and sent me
two of the old style pieces, but I get the impression that they're an
endangered species.
I try to keep the peghead inlays for my more deluxe models, but I guess
it's going to be a matter of no choice.
I will try the ebay guy, but if the product is .020" thick that's no bloody
use to man nor beast.
I'm not really a computer type at all, and my printer is some primitive
$1.99 job so I doubt it would give me decent results even if I could find
the decal material. It's less work to cut and inlay I think.
All the best,
KH
"Kevin Hall" <timbe...@webhart.net> wrote in message
news:fNednXPY8JdQpZHW...@posted.vianet...
David Hajicek
I remember as a kid, making my own decals for model airplanes. I took paper
and soaped it with bar soap. Then painted the design on the paper with
ordinary model airplane paint. After it dried, I dropped it in water and it
slid right off and stuck down like it should. This is thin, just the
thickness of the paint. I suppose a little clear over (or under) would make
it more durable.
The problem here is coming up with a stencil or rubber stamp with the
correct design so you can stamp the paper with gold paint. I don't have a
printer with a gold ink cartridge. ;>)
Dave Hajicek
"Kevin Hall" <timbe...@webhart.net> wrote in message
news:5IudnegG34lG_JDW...@posted.vianet...
alcarruth
" I remember as a kid, making my own decals for model airplanes. �I
took paper
and soaped it with bar soap. �Then painted the design on the paper
with
ordinary model airplane paint. �After it dried, I dropped it in water
and it
slid right off and stuck down like it should. �This is thin, just the
thickness of the paint. �I suppose a little clear over (or under)
would make
it more durable."
We did the same thing, using paper packing tape. You paint a layer of
model airplane 'dope' (which is just lacquer with banana oil as a
plasticizer, I believe) on the sticky side, and then paint the design
with enamal.
MicroMark sells the sheets for use in printers, both ink-jet and
laser. The ink-jet stuff needs a seal coat, I think. If you have a
scanner and Photoshop you're all set. Then all you have to find is
gold and siver ink cartidges. I don't know how thick these are.
Alan Carruth / Luthier
JimLowther
At the risk of exposing how long it has been since I last shopped for
a new Martin guitar--I thought they were using the same black-lined
gold logo. When did this change? Wouldn't a mylar peel-and-stick
result in the finish being raised over the logo?
Now, if you don't mind me hijacking your thread, this brings up
another question I have had recently about headstock logos and such.
I have seen more and more pearl and abalone on the headstocks of some
very modestly priced Far Eastern made guitars. I am just curious if
this is really pearl and abalone or some synthetic substitute. I'd
also be curious to know if it is actually engraved into the headstock
or just something stuck on and finished over. I wonder how think it
is. I am tempted to strip the finish off a headstock just to see what
this stuff really is.
Best wishes,
Dr. Jim Lowther
Ross Edwards
> Kevin:
>
> I remember as a kid, making my own decals for model airplanes. I took paper
> and soaped it with bar soap. Then painted the design on the paper with
> ordinary model airplane paint. After it dried, I dropped it in water and it
> slid right off and stuck down like it should. This is thin, just the
> thickness of the paint. I suppose a little clear over (or under) would make
> it more durable.
>
> The problem here is coming up with a stencil or rubber stamp with the
> correct design so you can stamp the paper with gold paint. I don't have a
> printer with a gold ink cartridge. ;>)
>
> Dave Hajicek
>
>
> news:5IudnegG34lG_JDW...@posted.vianet...
>
>
>
> > Thanks for that guys. I am starting to realize those old thin
> > water-slides may well be a thing of the past. Don't know what Martin are
> > going to do for decals for restos down the line. I recently got a couple
> > from them for two old D-28s on which I'm doing full restorations, and on
> > the first pass they sent me those wretched peel-and-stick deals which are
> > completely unsuitable for a '54 and a '71. In the end they sorted it out
> > and sent me two of the old style pieces, but I get the impression that
> > they're an endangered species.
>
> > I try to keep the peghead inlays for my more deluxe models, but I guess
> > it's going to be a matter of no choice.
>
> > I will try the ebay guy, but if the product is .020" thick that's no
> > bloody use to man nor beast.
>
> > I'm not really a computer type at all, and my printer is some primitive
> > $1.99 job so I doubt it would give me decent results even if I could find
> > the decal material. It's less work to cut and inlay I think.
>
> > All the best,
> > KH
> >news:fNednXPY8JdQpZHW...@posted.vianet...
> >> For about 25 years I've used water-slide decals on the pegheads of most
> >> of the guitars and ukes I build. They're the same sort Martin used prior
> >> to the introduction of those mylar peel-and-stick jobs. When you lacquer
> >> over them they end up flush, rather than lumpy like the new jobs.
>
> >> The fire we had about 3 years ago ate all but a handful of my old decals,
> >> and now I'm out of 'em but my old supplier is no longer in business.
>
> >> If anyone here has a source for such things I'd be greatful to hear about
> >> it.
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> KH
Hi all,
Long time lurker here :-)
I thought you might like to see the headstock decal I created for my
latest project... I used some "dry-rub" transfer paper from Crafty
Computer Paper here in the UK, printed in reverse and used a gold
marker pen to colour in the block characters:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossedwards/2448995890/in/set-72157604771754390/
Cheers,
Ross
--
www.rossedwards.net
JimLowther
Please forgive the oddities of that last post of mine. When I have
migraine aura I frequntly sub in the wrong words or confuse the
order. I am talking about inlaying, not engraving. I actually read
through my post twice before pushing the "send" button, sure something
(or things) was wrong, but unable to identify it.
At the risk of sounding blunt, how can Far Eastern countries making
cheap guitars afford to inlay the name on the peghead and CFM can't
afford a waterslide decal?
alcarruth
shell is broken down into separate laminations, which are thin enough
to be flexible, and then glued back together with epoxy. The result is
a flat sheet that is much easier to use than natural shell; for one
thing, it's less 'shalely'. It can also be made quite thin, which
stretches the resource.
The actual inlays and pockets are probably cut with a CNC router.
Those are getting pretty cheap these days, and once you have the thing
programmed it just sits there in the corner, slaving away. It's only
worthwhile if you make a lot of something, of course, but they are
making a lot of things. These cutters make it possible to use thin
stock for inlays, since they can make the pocket to a very acccutate
depth.
Alan Carruth / Luthier
Kevin Hall
some models, but switched to the peel-and-stick jobs on those lower down
the food chain. They do finish over those, which look like the originals
but which are sufficiently thick that they stick out like a bulldogs'
bollocks even after finishing.
Martins' original decals were the 'water-slide' type but instead of water
they used a solvent which helped to feather the edge of the decal in nicely
and ensured even adhesion and eliminated the problems commonly associated
with water slide types. I don't know what the solvent was. It had a very
distinctive odour. Haven't had any of that for years. Their decals can
be installed quite successfully using only warm water, but the solvent did
help.
Most modern production inlaying is done by CNC machines which makes it very
tight but to my mind devalues the end product. If anyone can do it at the
flip of a switch, what real value does it add? When inlay work was all
done by hand it was more of an artistic skill. In spite of it being
possible to get the same or even better, more consistent results via
machines the 'magic' is lost and I'd bet the farm that over time such work
will fall in esteem and monetary value. To me it's a lot like expecting
someone to pay big bucks for a photocopy of the Mona Lisa. It rather misses
the point.
A lot of offshore guitars utilized pearl veneers for headstock 'inlays'. I
don't know how they do it, but mother of pearl was cut into extremely thin
layers, cut to the required pattern and then laid on top of the peghead
overlay and finished over. No inlaying required. The stuff was only a few
thou thick, so a heavy application of poly squirt over the top made the
illusion complete.
All the best,
KH
"Kevin Hall" <timbe...@webhart.net> wrote in message
news:fNednXPY8JdQpZHW...@posted.vianet...
David Hajicek
"Ross Edwards" <ro...@rossedwards.net> wrote in message
news:641e339d-4a3a-48bb...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Hi all,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossedwards/2448995890/in/set-72157604771754390/
Cheers,
Ross
--
www.rossedwards.net
Nice job. Very well done.
Dave Hajicek.
David Hajicek
"alcarruth" <alca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cc59f2c5-bedd-4430...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
I've talked with an importer and watched videos of a guitar inlay shop doing
inlays in Viet Nam.
One thing I have to make clear is that there are VAST differences in the
quality and methods used to do inlays on Asian guitars. I will describe
what I saw (from a better source) and also what I've figured out looking at
some inlays.
First of all, they do not use Ablam. They cut their own pearl from shells
in the shop. At that time, they did not use any form of CNC for routing
either the pearl or the pocket for the inlay. This was all done by hand.
These people could work quite fast.
The inlays are mostly full thickness (about a mm) and are cut by hand.
Labor is cheap, after all.
What I have noticed is that there are wide variations in the quality of the
inlay, with the best places doing inlay that may not be up to my standards,
is at least ok when viewed from a short distance.
The poor quality stuff is so crappy that it looks bad from the other side of
the room. But it is still mostly hand work.
Now Asians also have a "secret" inlay technique. They cut the pearl to
about 0.010" (.25mm) thick or less. Then the inlay is simply glued onto the
surface and finish applied over the inlay. This means a lot of finish, and
later when the finish shrinks, the inlay becomes raised.
Dave Hajicek
A.J.Lucas
> "Ross Edwards" <r...@rossedwards.net> wrote in message
>
> news:641e339d-4a3a-48bb...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 26, 5:29 am, "David Hajicek" <haji...@skypoint.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Long time lurker here :-)
>
> I thought you might like to see the headstock decal I created for my
> latest project... I used some "dry-rub" transfer paper from Crafty
> Computer Paper here in the UK, printed in reverse and used a gold
> marker pen to colour in the block characters:
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ross
> --www.rossedwards.net
>
> Nice job. Very well done.
>
> Dave Hajicek.
Ross, I like the way you've put 'synchronised vibrato' instead of
tremolo. Fender always had those terms mixed up.
Kevin, a friend of a friend makes very good water slide transfers the
old fashioned way. I'll try and find his contact details and let you
know.
Adrian
Kevin Hall
and early '80s when we were making a lot of banjos that I avoid it now with
the exception of the very occaisional style 45 Martin repro or 5k style uke.
After cutting the stuff by the yard for banjos and guitars with Maurer style
'secret map to the ultimate lick' patterns etc. on boards and headstocks I
came to regard most pearl work as mindless drudgery. I appreciate it when
it's well done of course, but resent having to do it myself. What really
keeps me building is the need to hear what the next one will sound like,
and time spent cutting and inlaying feels like time stolen from building.
Same thing happened with relief carving. Back when we did the banjos I did
a fair bit of relief carving on necks and resonators. A lot of banjo
enthusiasts also seem to be firearms fans, and before long they were
dragging in their shotguns and rifles to have scenes and critters carved in
the stocks. At one point I had more guns in the shop for carving than I had
instruments, so I cut that stuff out altogether. ;-)
Have you used any of that top wood I sent you yet?
All the best,
KH
"A.J.Lucas" <ajl...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:f3d8f98a-6a31-4bbf...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Claude V. Lucas
Lots of decalling supplies at Micro Mark
A.J.Lucas
> I'd be greatful for that contact Adrian. I did so much inlaying in the 70s
> and early '80s when we were making a lot of banjos that I avoid it now with
> the exception of the very occaisional style 45 Martin repro or 5k style uke.
>
> After cutting the stuff by the yard for banjos and guitars with Maurer style
> 'secret map to the ultimate lick' patterns etc. on boards and headstocks I
> came to regard most pearl work as mindless drudgery. I appreciate it when
> it's well done of course, but resent having to do it myself. What really
> keeps me building is the need to hear what the next one will sound like,
> and time spent cutting and inlaying feels like time stolen from building.
>
> Same thing happened with relief carving. Back when we did the banjos I did
> a fair bit of relief carving on necks and resonators. A lot of banjo
> enthusiasts also seem to be firearms fans, and before long they were
> dragging in their shotguns and rifles to have scenes and critters carved in
> the stocks. At one point I had more guns in the shop for carving than I had
> instruments, so I cut that stuff out altogether. ;-)
>
> Have you used any of that top wood I sent you yet?
>
> All the best,
I haven't used any of the soundboards yet, but looking forward to
doing so. I should see the friend who's friend is the decal guy
tonight, so I'll get the details and let you know.
Adrian
Kevin Hall
decals with no trouble. The order is in and when they arrive I'll let the
group know how they turned out. He tells me they are standard, old-style
thin waterslides so I'm looking forward to seeing them.
Guys' name is Trey Hays, and email is brau...@hotmail.com
He's in Colorado.
Thanks Steve.
KH
"Kevin Hall" <timbe...@webhart.net> wrote in message
news:fNednXPY8JdQpZHW...@posted.vianet...
Steve
Trey's decal worked great for me - definitely let us know how this turns
out. Here's the one he did for me:
http://www.cyrguitars.com/TS_SG_Completed_05.JPG
--Steve in Roseville
David Hajicek
"Steve" <sm...@sureNOSPAMwest.net> wrote in message
news:b087e$4b17040c$453ed4ce$28...@EVERESTKC.NET...
Looks nice.
Dave Hajicek
Alan D.
whether
they have the tapered edges of the old style water glides.
Thanks,
Alan D.
Steve
> Kevin, please keep us posted as to how they turn out. Particularly as to
> whether
> they have the tapered edges of the old style water glides.
>
> Thanks,
> Alan D.
>
The ones he made for me do not - but the material i spretty thin.
--Steve in Roseville
A.J.Lucas
Here are a couple of UK sources for the traditional type, as
recommended by a friend:
Tearnes of Birmingham +44 121 3591717
Kaylee Transfers, Nottingham http://www.kaylee.uk.com/
Adrian
Kevin Hall
If the guy in Colorado doesn't work out, I'll try your info.
Interestingly I find old Brit and Japanese decals to be of much higher
quality than those I'd been able to obtain over here. Among my other sins
and shortcomings I play with classic motorcycles and sportscars and among
some of the related memorabilia I've collected over the years are several
decals or 'transfers' from the late 50s and early '60s. Some are presumably
cheap promotional jobs advertising the Isle of Man TT races etc., and
others are old tank decals for various bikes both British and Japanese. In
some cases I had a number of duplicates of those and several were damaged
through poor storage, rough handling etc. Out of curiosity I applied some
of the damaged one to various items like tea mugs, just to see if they'd
still work. They did, virtually as they would have 45 or more years ago
and proved to be surprisingly durable once applied, even without any
protective covering. They went on well with virtually invisible edges and
no blistering.
Decals I had made here as little as 20 years ago seldom worked anything like
as well. Often they cracked while in the drawer, blistered even when new,
and the edges seldom blended in well without a fair bit of fussing with
thinner etc. before finishing.
All the best,
KH
"A.J.Lucas" <ajl...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:a3c55ecd-f61e-4551...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
JimLowther
>
> > He's in Colorado.
>
> > Thanks Steve.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Simple, unique, striking--that is a nice logo, IMHO.
Steve
>
> Simple, unique, striking--that is a nice logo, IMHO.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dr. Jim Lowther
Thanks!
--Steve in Roseville
Alan D.
>Here are a couple of UK sources for the traditional type, as
>recommended by a friend:
>Tearnes of Birmingham +44 121 3591717
>Kaylee Transfers, Nottingham http://www.kaylee.uk.com/
>
>Adrian
Thanks Adrian, that is good info. I have one logo that is rather involved and
the inlay is quite tricky so a transfer would be just the ticket for that. But
they are in Nottingham so maybe the post can't get through the protesters...<G>
Alan D.
A.J.Lucas
> "A.J.Lucas" <ajlu...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >Here are a couple of UK sources for the traditional type, as
> >recommended by a friend:
> >Kaylee Transfers, Nottingham http://www.kaylee.uk.com/
>
> >Adrian
>
> Thanks Adrian, that is good info. I have one logo that is rather involved and
> the inlay is quite tricky so a transfer would be just the ticket for that. But
> they are in Nottingham so maybe the post can't get through the protesters...<G>
>
> Alan D.
Well, it could be intercepted by Robin Hood and the transfers
redistributed amongst the poor.
Adrian
JimLowther
> I'd be greatful for that contact Adrian. � I did so much inlaying in the 70s
> and early '80s when we were making a lot of banjos that I avoid it now with
> the exception of the very occaisional style 45 Martin repro or 5k style uke.
>
> After cutting the stuff by the yard for banjos and guitars with Maurer style
> 'secret map to the ultimate lick' patterns etc. on boards and headstocks I
> came to regard most pearl work as mindless drudgery. �I appreciate it when
> it's well done of course, �but resent having to do it myself. � What really
> keeps me building is the need to hear what the next one will sound like,
> and time spent cutting and inlaying feels like time stolen from building.
>
> Same thing happened with relief carving. � Back when we did the banjos I did
> a fair bit of relief carving on necks and resonators. �A lot of banjo
> enthusiasts also seem to be firearms fans, �and before long they were
> dragging in their shotguns and rifles to have scenes and critters carved in
> the stocks. �At one point I had more guns in the shop for carving than I had
> instruments, �so I cut that stuff out altogether. ;-)
>
> Have you used any of that top wood I sent you yet?
>
> All the best,
>
> news:f3d8f98a-6a31-4bbf...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 27, 10:50 pm, "David Hajicek" <haji...@skypoint.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ross Edwards" <r...@rossedwards.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:641e339d-4a3a-48bb...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> > On Nov 26, 5:29 am, "David Hajicek" <haji...@skypoint.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > Long time lurker here :-)
>
> > I thought you might like to see the headstock decal I created for my
> > latest project... I used some "dry-rub" transfer paper from Crafty
> > Computer Paper here in the UK, printed in reverse and used a gold
> > marker pen to colour in the block characters:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossedwards/2448995890/in/set-7215760477...
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Ross
> > --www.rossedwards.net
>
> > Nice job. Very well done.
>
> > Dave Hajicek.
>
> Ross, I like the way you've put 'synchronised vibrato' instead of
> tremolo. Fender always had those terms mixed up.
>
> Kevin, a friend of a friend makes very good water slide transfers the
> old fashioned way. I'll try and find his contact details and let you
> know.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
"After cutting the stuff by the yard for banjos and guitars with
Maurer style
'secret map to the ultimate lick' patterns etc. on boards and
headstocks I
came to regard most pearl work as mindless drudgery."
Was there really a secret map to the ultimate lick?
I remember Stuart Mossman's workshop full of Maurer inspired "Tree of
Life" fretboards ready to go on his top of the line dreads. That was
sometime in 1972 or '73 (before I graduated from highschool). I was
quite impressed with the work, although I came away with a feeling
that it was just a bit much.
David Hajicek
"After cutting the stuff by the yard for banjos and guitars with
Maurer style
'secret map to the ultimate lick' patterns etc. on boards and
headstocks I
came to regard most pearl work as mindless drudgery."
Was there really a secret map to the ultimate lick?
I remember Stuart Mossman's workshop full of Maurer inspired "Tree of
Life" fretboards ready to go on his top of the line dreads. That was
sometime in 1972 or '73 (before I graduated from highschool). I was
quite impressed with the work, although I came away with a feeling
that it was just a bit much.
Best wishes,
Dr. Jim Lowther
___________
What's this secret map and ultimate lick stuff?
I assume this is not referring to drugs or south American frogs? ;>)
Dave Hajicek
Father Haskell
by any screenprinter. First coat was gum arabic run through
a stencil slightly larger than the artwork. Second coat was
lacquer, which formed the body of the decal. This was
printed through the same stencil as the gum. Follow with
the actual artwork.
David Hajicek
"Father Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:57b8bbbc-ab50-4883...@f6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
Thank you for the recipe. I just happen to have all those materials and a
screen printer.
Dave Hajicek
Father Haskell
> "Father Haskell" <fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Feel free to experiment. Might work just as well if
you coated the whole sheet with gum Arabic before
printing. Other glues might be substitutable.