Trent Reznor vs David Bowie
michael taylor
I think that David Bowie blows trent Reznor away. I believe that
bowie writes more original music. You may not like his current work,
but you have to admit Bowie is pushing the envelope. Trent will not
move in a direction, unless it has been hip for at least a year. AKA,
synth pop when Depech Mode did Violator, Broken when grunge was
cool(Broken is not a grunge album, but you have to admit it is guitar
rock, with a sequencer), and dark ambient for Downward. Bowie is moving
in his own direction, he may not be selling platnum, but he is not
making music for 14 years olds either.
Another bone I have to pick with trent, is his lame "concept"
album. hey everybody, I am lonley, I am sad, I want to die, what a
concept! At least Bowie is trying to create theater, he is trying to
tell a complex story, Bowie even has multiple characters in his
albums(woah what a concept<G>).
The other thing, I think Bowie will be remembered in 25 years. I
cannot say the same for trent, I think he will be in the same boat with
Human League, and Naked Eyes. Unfortunatly for trent, thats what
happens when you follow trends.
The final thing I Dislike about Trent Reznor, he is a rock star.
Trent thinks that wrecking hotel rooms, and giving groupies enemas is a
good time. Bowie is trying to create art, he is striving to make better
music. Bowie is trying to capture the moment, this alienates people,
because he is about 20 years ahead of his time. When you listen to Low,
you have to admit for when the record was released(January 9th or 19th,
1977, if I am not mistaken), was the most futuristic thing out there.
Trent, Joy Division, Robert Smith, Kraftwerk, they all name check him
as an influence. Trent is a rock star, Bowie is an artist.
if I pissed you off I am sorry, but time will prove me right.
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
PS For all you alternateens who walked out after NIN, you missed out on
one great show.
Moron
| __,,______________ "It's time to put Ol' Yeller down" |
| < ____________/ |
| / /-' martensville . . . . . . MORON . . . . . . |
| /___/ c/o . mo...@IslandNet.com . |
| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
| |
| http://www.islandnet.com/~moron/deterrent/martensville/marten.html |
Eric Pierce
taylor ) writes:
>
>Hello all
Hello fool!
>
> I think that David Bowie blows trent Reznor away. I believe that
>bowie writes more original music. You may not like his current work,
>but you have to admit Bowie is pushing the envelope. Trent will not
>move in a direction, unless it has been hip for at least a year. AKA,
>synth pop when Depech Mode did Violator, Broken when grunge was
>cool(Broken is not a grunge album, but you have to admit it is guitar
>rock, with a sequencer), and dark ambient for Downward. Bowie is
moving
>in his own direction, he may not be selling platnum, but he is not
>making music for 14 years olds either.
i think yer pretty stupid. yep, Trent goes with the flow. who knows now
that alternative is the thing maybe the next NIN will be that. Maybe
he'll put out an R&B & rap album also. you obviously no nothing.
Yes, Bowie is a great artist. I like both. I couldn't really compare
the two. Bowie is pretty original, but that is pretty tough to do these
days.
Also, i don't believe TR writes his music for 14 year olds. You
probably didn't even know who NIN was before '94. He writes his music
about what he wants to and if you don't like it, oh well. You don't
have to cut on it. I hate rap & country but i don't post about how it
is being written for drunks and white trash.
William Longsdon
chr...@ix.netcom.com
> The final thing I Dislike about Trent Reznor, he is a rock star.
>Trent thinks that wrecking hotel rooms, and giving groupies enemas is a
>good time. Bowie is trying to create art
>Trent, Joy Division, Robert Smith, Kraftwerk, they all name check him
>as an influence. Trent is a rock star, Bowie is an artist.
i agree with some of your points(not your musical view of nin), but you
can't say bowie wasn't a rock star! maybe now he isn't, but it's called
maturing. maybe trent's getting caught up in the decadence of the rock
star thing now (not saying it's right or wrong), but when he's bowies age
who knows.
>PS For all you alternateens who walked out after NIN, you missed out on
>one great show.
yep, he was brilliant, of course. but hey, i'm glad they left cuz we got
to
move to a better spot and didn't have to deal with all the mainstream
kiddies so much. i may be their age, but i'm extremely glad i don't have
their fucked up " follow the trends like sheep" mentality! 8)
amber
Andrew Clegg
writes:
>
> That's one kickboxing match I'd pay to see! $5 bux on Bowie. Any takers?
I'd back Bowie too, on the cover of Let's Dance he just looks *sooooo* hard.
--
Andrew.
"Happy children are just unhappy children having fun."
- Morticia Addams
Mark A. Pitcher
: That's one kickboxing match I'd pay to see! $5 bux on Bowie. Any takers?
You're on. Bowie's too old. No amount of coke is going to give him
the energy to take on someone like Reznor.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mark A. Pitcher | http://www.waterloo.net/~mark
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"GUH!" - Bill Leeb
Sean Da Great
DAVID BOWIE SUCKS DICK.
there, how ya like that? I like NIN, and i walked out on bowie after the
NIN show because, well, i fucking hate bowie. he has the shittiest voice
out of ANYONE in the ENTIRE music industry!! (with the exception of alanis
morrisette)..
some of his musical crap is sort of OK, but his voice just ruins it all.
and if you think trent is "going with the flow" well, whatyever, you can
think that. and even if he IS, does it matter????
does it matter if he DID sell out (even tho he trully DIDNT, regardless of
what you anti-nin freaks say)
THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS THAT THE MUSIC IS GOOD.
i cant stand people like you, who hate music because its trendy. thats no
reason to hate a certain band.
--
You look bored. But I'm sure a vist to my webpage will
cheer you up!! (or not) http://www.efn.org/~sean_h/
=========================================
| dont think you're havin all the fun |
| you know me, i hate everyone |
=========================================
Chris Lynch
>on
>>one great show.
>
>
No shit... I'm sick of reading posts by people who knock NIN as a band that
follows the flow, steals from other industrial bands, or is unoriginal. I
mean, I love industrial music, and I also love NIN. Yeah, I even consider
NIN to be industrial.
If The Downward Spiral is dark ambient, then I am curious what music that I
called dark ambient is, because it sounds nothing like NIN. No, I also
don't think that Broken sounded like rock metal guitars with a sequencer.
Is that what Klute, Chemlab, Haloblack, or Argyle Park are?? I mean, they
have guitars in their music, so you gotta admit that they are pop grunge,
right?
Hmmm... as for calling Pretty Hate Machine synth pop because of Depeche, I
am curious if any band with an EBM fell to it was also imitating Depeche
Mode?
Just because a band is INFLUENCED by another band doesn't mean they are
stealing. A good portion of modern industrial is inspired by or receiving
ideas from other industrial bands. I mean, there are so many bands that
sound like NIN (like, uh... shit, I'll think of one later), so I know they
must have stolen their sound. Sure, I'll bet parts of NIN may sound like
other bands, but how many bands out there are completely original in
everything they do (and have no fucking influence from some other band)?
Comparing Bowie and NIN is strange, because while influences from Bowie may
exist in NIN, they are two completely seperate worlds. Just because you may
not like NIN doesn't mean they suck or are unoriginal.
Is NIN making music for 14 year olds? No... when he records his next album
with Weird Al Yankovic, then I'll agree for you.
C
[--------------------------------------------------------]
[ Chris Lynch ]
[ Instant Access Publishing ]
[ ]
[ "The greatest trick that the devil ever pulled, ]
[ was convincing the world that he didn't exist." ]
[ -The Usual Suspects ]
[--------------------------------------------------------]
downfall
On 2 Feb 1996, Mark A. Pitcher wrote:
> Moron (mo...@islandnet.com) wrote:
> : That's one kickboxing match I'd pay to see! $5 bux on Bowie. Any takers?
>
> You're on. Bowie's too old. No amount of coke is going to give him
> the energy to take on someone like Reznor.
>
though bowie is a cagey and wiley vertern of many a kick boxing battle
reznor is young, agile and fast. bowie may have the weight of a 25 year
recording history on his side, but in the kick boxing format, that doesn't
mean much. reznor not only has speed but also, he has years of training.
after all he spent 7 years in seclusion training with asiatic monks,
learning the arts of karate, ninjitsu, haiku, and praying mantis. reznor
would win, but bowie would put up a helluva fight.
-downfall
michael taylor
>
Trent will not
>>>move in a direction, unless it has been hip for at least a year.
AKA,
>>>synth pop when Depech Mode did Violator, Broken when grunge was
>>>cool(Broken is not a grunge album, but you have to admit it is
guitar
>>>rock, with a sequencer), and dark ambient for Downward. Bowie is
>>moving
>>>in his own direction, he may not be selling platnum, but he is not
>>>making music for 14 years olds either.
>>>PS For all you alternateens who walked out after NIN, you missed out
>>on
>>>one great show.
>>
>>
>
>No shit... I'm sick of reading posts by people who knock NIN as a
band that
>follows the flow, steals from other industrial bands, or is
unoriginal. I
>mean, I love industrial music, and I also love NIN. Yeah, I even
consider
>NIN to be industrial.
>
>If The Downward Spiral is dark ambient, then I am curious what music
that I
>called dark ambient is, because it sounds nothing like NIN. No, I
also
>don't think that Broken sounded like rock metal guitars with a
sequencer.
>Is that what Klute, Chemlab, Haloblack, or Argyle Park are?? I mean,
they
>have guitars in their music, so you gotta admit that they are pop
grunge,
>right?
NIN fans are interesting. First, when I said dark ambient, I mean that
he included more textures in TDS, I have an old interview with Trent
where he states""it'll (tds) also be more AMBIENT, and minimalist"
(Propaganda #20, page 20).
trent writes for the pop charts, and Guitar rock was selling at the
moment. Broken was just a rock album, plain and simple. As far as I am
concerned, all of the above mentioned bands are not industrial. I
listen to Second Annual Report and wonder how the hell they is
concidered Industrial. I don't hate Chemlab, I just think that it is
something other then Industrial music.
>
>Hmmm... as for calling Pretty Hate Machine synth pop because of
Depeche, I
>am curious if any band with an EBM fell to it was also imitating
Depeche
>Mode?
well, Depech Mode was selling a lot of records in 1989. PHM in my
opinion, sounds like a dark, overbusy, Depech mode.
Persuasion, you gotta get some
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
Philip Varner
>> the energy to take on someone like Reznor.
>learning the arts of karate, ninjitsu, haiku, and praying mantis. reznor
>would win, but bowie would put up a helluva fight.
Eh, not if Bowie went for Trents fishnets. Then Trent would just whine and
give in and go write a song how horrible his life is and make another billion.
Or, Bowie could go for Trents (lack of) nose and in which case, he'd do the
same thing as the fishnet scenerio.
Either way, I don't think Trent would win.
Not...@execpc.com http://www.execpc.com/~nothing/
::: :::
:: :: DOWNLOAD Homepage
: : http://www.execpc.com/~nothing/download/
michael taylor
Pitcher) writes:
>
>Moron (mo...@islandnet.com) wrote:
>: That's one kickboxing match I'd pay to see! $5 bux on Bowie. Any
takers?
>
him
>the energy to take on someone like Reznor.
>
without the involvement of controlled substances. besides, Bowie might
not be able to pretend he is sad, or do the "pain" dance, but at least
he plays with a live band. when I mean "live", I mean having real
musicians, not just pretty guys in leather trowsers, triggering samples
and playing two simple riffs on guitar. Reeves Gabriels or Carlos
Alomar could play circles around robin finch, but then again Reeves and
Carlos are not as "cute" as robin.
All in all, I would rather see an artist working with a great
band, than a "Rock star" and his pretty band. Bowie might not be 30
anymore, but he still hasn't lost the touch. A touch that Trent never
had.
someone who knew who trent was before the first Lollapalooza
(and thought he was shit even then)
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
PS I got "rock star" from the last issue of spin. I love the part where
trent says that he was intimidated by Bowie "I felt like I had to
impress him". "He was reading poetry, and Discussing German art films"
Poor trent, David Bowie would not stroke trent's ego, it must really be
awful when someone will not drop everything to worship at the altar of
Reznor.
Sean Da Great
> moment. Broken was just a rock album, plain and simple. As far as I am
> concerned, all of the above mentioned bands are not industrial. I
> listen to Second Annual Report and wonder how the hell they is
> concidered Industrial. I don't hate Chemlab, I just think that it is
> something other then Industrial music.
>
writes for the charts?? not quite.. prety hate machine and broken were
not popular at ALL until tds came out.. broken?? ha , yah that album did
just GREAT! it sold about 3 copies, until TDS came around
Chris Lynch
>he included more textures in TDS, I have an old interview with Trent
>where he states""it'll (tds) also be more AMBIENT, and minimalist"
>(Propaganda #20, page 20).
>
>moment. Broken was just a rock album, plain and simple. As far as I am
>concerned, all of the above mentioned bands are not industrial. I
>listen to Second Annual Report and wonder how the hell they is
>concidered Industrial. I don't hate Chemlab, I just think that it is
>something other then Industrial music.
OLD style industrial fans are interesting as well... you try to tell me how
TG is true industrial and everything nowadays is something else completely
different. I agree that TG, EN, and SPK are true to an OLD style of
industrial which has evolved into MODERN industrial, and I listen to both and
can honestly say that industrial as a style has EVOLVED like any other style
of music has. If it all sounded like 20 Jazz Funk Greats, then we wouldn't be
working towards new forms of industrial, now would we?
Broken sounded nothing like a rock album, and I'm curious what rock bands
sounds like Broken, because maybe I've given rock a cold shoulder for no
reason. Maybe I'm a die hard rock fan?
As for your quote about NIN, I simply said that TDS was far from dark ambient.
I consider ELpH to be dark ambient. I consider Aphex Twin, Global
Communication, Autechre, and Synaethesia to be ambient. The only track on TDS
to fall into either of these categories was a Warm Place. Everything else may
have had textured intros, but you had originally tagged TDS as dark ambient.
I consider modern industrial to fall into bands like Leaetherstrip, NIN, FLA,
Cubanate, Chemlab, Spahn Ranch, F242, Coil, etc. Maybe that's why we discuss
these bands in RMI? However there is a.m.nin, so NIN shouldn't be discussed
here...
michael taylor
>on the other hand is not such a good singer. He is like the
>Bob Dylan of industrial music. Great song writer but god
>what an ugly voice and no range. Oh well he wouldn't have
>anyone else sing them because of his ego right?
>
>
>-Joe Frank-
To the Readers of R.M.I
Just to be fair, I actually borrowed a copy of TDS. I approached the
album neutrally, and the album did have its moments, but in all
honesty, I laughed out loud when I listened to parts of the album.
my personal favorites include
1. "I am a big man(yes I am)
and I have a big gun
got me a big old dick
i like to have fun"
jesus, I have not heard this kind of lyrical genius, since I bought
Latoya Jackson's album. It reminds me a bit of Iggy Pop, but Iggy makes
it somehow entertaining. Imagine how much better TDS would have been if
Iggy did the vocals "now I wanna be your reptile". (sorry just an
entertaining thought)
2. "I want to know everything
I want to be everywhere
I want to fuck everyone in the world
I want to do something that matters"
Trent..Trent...Trent, you are really sinking to the level of
highschool. I used to have to wash crap like this off desks. It is bad
enough when the remedial students express themselves in this manner,
but lyrics like this are not becomming of a man with a IQ of "140".
3. "how did you get so big
how did you get so strong
how did you get so hard
how did it get so long"
Genetics trent, genetics trent, also I have learned the art of the
Tantric Orgasm.
4. "your God is dead, and no one cares
if there is a hell, I will see you there"
gee trent...if you keep this up you will get banned in walmart. in the
year 1994, it takes a lot more to be shocking. Trent the only problem
with your formula is that it is too obvious, it actually makes me laugh
when I listen to your music.
Dear Joe
Trent reznor is bob dylan, cause they both suck. Dylan is a boring old
hippie that needs to be put out of his misery. trent is a young poseur
that needs to be put into misery. fuck it, I am just going to put on
mission of dead souls and try to forget about it.
are you ready, we need some discipline in here
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
Mark Beeson
// Trent reznor is bob dylan, cause they both suck. Dylan is a boring old
// hippie that needs to be put out of his misery. trent is a young poseur
// that needs to be put into misery. fuck it, I am just going to put on
// mission of dead souls and try to forget about it.
Bob Dylan is Better Than You, Mike.
--Mark
--
Mark Beeson http://www.nin.com http://www.smg.org
I read the following newsgroups: alt.humor.best-of-usenet, az.internet,
az.general, clari.apbl.briefs, rec.music.industrial, alt.fan.chris-randall,
alt.music.nin, and on occasion alt.tv.bh90210. If you don't understand why,
don't ask.
michael taylor
>Bob Dylan is Better Than You, Mike.
perhaps, but on the same token, the new kids on the block can twist
your cap back<G>
oh oh ahh oh oh, mark's got the right stuff, cause he is a hippie
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
Christine Bomke
>Bob Dylan is Better Than You, Mike.
Fuck, Bob Dylan is Better Than Me. (or was that Chris Randall? Hmm...
ibuprofen and insomnia do not bode well with my long-term memory.)
Anyway, I can see where this thread is going, and if you all don't mind having
another "WHAT KMFDM REALLY MEANS ! ! !" -like thread on your hands with this,
by all means, keep 'dem responses coming. No pity for the majority of rmi who
read their news offline, and all that.
Christine
-+- ci...@cts.com http://www2.connectnet.com/users/saljames/circe/ -+-
-+- this space for rent. cheap. i'm out of .sigfile inspiration. -+-
-+- email me for a copy of the black metal box FAQ -+-
michael taylor
>
>Anyway, I can see where this thread is going, and if you all don't
mind having
>another "WHAT KMFDM REALLY MEANS ! ! !" -like thread on your hands
with this,
>by all means, keep 'dem responses coming. No pity for the majority of
rmi who
>read their news offline, and all that.
>
>Christine
Hey Christine
I hear that KMFDM stands for Karl Marx Found Dead Masterbating, en ecsh
told me so himself, this was the night that me, genesis, bill the cat,
and En went out to the city club.
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
Mark Beeson
// >Bob Dylan is Better Than You, Mike.
// perhaps, but on the same token, the new kids on the block can twist
// your cap back<G>
// oh oh ahh oh oh, mark's got the right stuff, cause he is a hippie
By your logic, that would make you a 13-year-old girl with braces,
and zits all over her face that emptied a can of hairspray into her
hair every morning.
--Mark
--this is just too easy
--
Mark Beeson http://www.nin.com http://www.smg.org
"Jesus built my snowboard."
Contributed by Christine Bromke (hi Christine!)
downfall
On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Philip Varner wrote:
> In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.960205...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu>, downfall <ew20...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu> wrote:
>
> >ahh, you obviously know not praying mantis, as it teaches one how to
> >defend thy fish net stockings and the nose when battling cagey veterns
> >such as bowie.
>
> What about the hair? Bowie could definatly get a handfull of that hair Trent
> has and yank and yank till submission.
i think that trent would actually enjoy this treatment. *grin*
> I still think Bowie would win. Besides,
> Bowie also has a horde of evil goblins and trolls on his side vs. Trents
> gradeschool munchkins and their jean jackets and NIN backpatches.
we all know that bowie's trolls and goblins were only fiction. . . in
real life trent is a master of the darkness and spends his spare time
training demons and goblins and widgets the art of praying mantis. . .er
and the tango.
-downfall
downfall
On 6 Feb 1996, michael taylor wrote:
> To the Readers of R.M.I
>
> Just to be fair, I actually borrowed a copy of TDS. I approached the
> album neutrally, and the album did have its moments, but in all
so, let me get this straight, you were criticizing a work without ever
having listened to it? hm. brilliant.
> honesty, I laughed out loud when I listened to parts of the album.
>
> my personal favorites include
>
> 1. "I am a big man(yes I am)
> and I have a big gun
> got me a big old dick
> i like to have fun"
you know, humor is what he was aiming for. he was satirizing gangsta
rap.
> jesus, I have not heard this kind of lyrical genius, since I bought
> it somehow entertaining. Imagine how much better TDS would have been if
> Iggy did the vocals "now I wanna be your reptile". (sorry just an
> entertaining thought)
not very.
> 3. "how did you get so big
> how did you get so strong
> how did you get so hard
> how did it get so long"
>
> Genetics trent, genetics trent, also I have learned the art of the
> Tantric Orgasm.
i think he was talking about the night.
> 4. "your God is dead, and no one cares
> if there is a hell, I will see you there"
>
> gee trent...if you keep this up you will get banned in walmart. in the
> year 1994, it takes a lot more to be shocking. Trent the only problem
> with your formula is that it is too obvious, it actually makes me laugh
> when I listen to your music.
he was representing a part of tds' concept. part of the story, that part
is, gasp, thowing away of religious dogma that the character no longer
needed.
-downfall
Neil Whitlock
>PS I got "rock star" from the last issue of spin. I love the part where
>trent says that he was intimidated by Bowie "I felt like I had to
>impress him". "He was reading poetry, and Discussing German art films"
>Poor trent, David Bowie would not stroke trent's ego, it must really be
>awful when someone will not drop everything to worship at the altar of
>Reznor.
I think you are blowing things a little out of proportion. Im not the
biggest NIN fan in the world but I think that Reznor was simply laying
out how he felt about the situation. Bowie is a big name and it is
tough when you work with someone that you have looked up to for so
long. You are right that Reznor lacks something that Bowie has but
Bowie's career spands many years and Reznor has only been around in
the mainstream for a fraction of that time. A lot of the negative
comments I have heard about NIN seem to stem from the fact that they
think Trent Reznor is a "rock star" with a bad attitude. From the
interviews I have read with him, he seems to be a withdrawn man with
some problems and has found an outlet to express them. That may have
turned into commercial success for him and I think he is dealing with
it quite well. He is very young considering and it will be
interesting to see what will happen to Trent Reznor's career in the
next 5-10 years.
Inert
> uhhh...according to Bowie and Brian Eno, Outside was written
>without the involvement of controlled substances. besides, Bowie might
>not be able to pretend he is sad, or do the "pain" dance, but at least
>he plays with a live band. when I mean "live", I mean having real
>musicians, not just pretty guys in leather trowsers, triggering samples
>and playing two simple riffs on guitar. Reeves Gabriels or Carlos
>Alomar could play circles around robin finch, but then again Reeves and
>Carlos are not as "cute" as robin.
> All in all, I would rather see an artist working with a great
>band, than a "Rock star" and his pretty band. Bowie might not be 30
>anymore, but he still hasn't lost the touch. A touch that Trent never
>had.
>someone who knew who trent was before the first Lollapalooza
>(and thought he was shit even then)
>Michael Taylor
>Detroit USA
>PS I got "rock star" from the last issue of spin. I love the part where
>trent says that he was intimidated by Bowie "I felt like I had to
>impress him". "He was reading poetry, and Discussing German art films"
>Poor trent, David Bowie would not stroke trent's ego, it must really be
>awful when someone will not drop everything to worship at the altar of
>Reznor.
David Bowie is every bit the "Rockstar" that Trent is. They both
happen to have talent. I don't like the self pitty that both of them
tend to dwell on... Come on guys is it all that bad??? not that
we should pretend everything in the world is fine I just don't
get into the self centered crap that much anymore, but this is
how I feel. Does anyone else think the song "Poor Boy" is about
Bowie? or is this my imagination? I don't know... the poor boy
singing is soooo fine, it's the words I can do without. Trent
Philip Varner
>ahh, you obviously know not praying mantis, as it teaches one how to
>defend thy fish net stockings and the nose when battling cagey veterns
>such as bowie.
What about the hair? Bowie could definatly get a handfull of that hair Trent
has and yank and yank till submission. I still think Bowie would win. Besides,
Bowie also has a horde of evil goblins and trolls on his side vs. Trents
gradeschool munchkins and their jean jackets and NIN backpatches.
They would make good food for the trolls.
Robb Cunningham
well).
t...@one.net (Chris Lynch) wrote:
>>NIN fans are interesting. First, when I said dark ambient, I mean that
>>he included more textures in TDS, I have an old interview with Trent
>>where he states""it'll (tds) also be more AMBIENT, and minimalist"
>>(Propaganda #20, page 20).
>>
OK for starters -
ANYONE who says that NIN fits into "dark ambient" music is a true fucking
idiot. I don't care what Trent says, you are trying to put the guy down
anyway, so why do you listen to what he says? In the original post you
said that TDS was a dark ambient album, not "it went in a more ambient
direction." Nice try to cover it up, though. In the same post you also
stated that Trent never does anything that hasn't been popular for a
year. Dark ambient TRENDY?!?!? on what planet????
Before you prove to us just how much more idiocy can spew from your
finger tips, go out and buy Lustmord - The Place Where Black Stars Hang.
Second of all, what you said simply didn't make sense. Let me quote it
again for reference:
>>NIN fans are interesting. First, when I said dark ambient, I mean that
>>he included more textures in TDS,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"more textures"....yeah wow that's the trendiest thing around today.
Let's look at the popular bands of today....Green Day - the kings of
adding textures and layers to their music. ummm Smashing Pumpkins -- oh
wow they have SO many textures in their music. Yeah and come to think of
it Ace of Base is the god of all textured music.
Please make me laugh no longer....
>>I have an old interview with Trent
>>where he states""it'll (tds) also be more AMBIENT, and minimalist"
^^^^^^^^^^
you just said he added more textures....? can't you even keep up the
SAME bullshit arguement for a couple of lines?
>>trent writes for the pop charts, and Guitar rock was selling at the
>>moment. Broken was just a rock album, plain and simple. As far as I am
>>concerned, all of the above mentioned bands are not industrial. I
>>listen to Second Annual Report and wonder how the hell they is
>>concidered Industrial. I don't hate Chemlab, I just think that it is
>>something other then Industrial music.
.....*YAWN*.....industrial has evolved.....DEAL WITH IT.....
disclaimer: before you send in the "you trendy NIN fuck" flames....I do
NOT consider myself a "NIN fan", I consider him to be "OK", but I could
probably think of 60 bands I'd rather listen to. I really don't give a
fuck what people say about NIN, I am merely trying to point out the
stupidity, hypocrisy, and contradictiveness of the above article. So
could you kindly point all flames in the direction of WHAT I SAID, rather
than the fact that it is NIN-related. (although your ability to make a
straight-forward argument is questionable).
--
ذد à،
Nothing in a Box
> uhhh...according to Bowie and Brian Eno, Outside was written
>without the involvement of controlled substances. besides, Bowie might
What about that game they had to play? You know, the ones with the
cards. And Bowie had to rely on some Burroughs-like computer program
to mess around with his writings!
>not be able to pretend he is sad, or do the "pain" dance, but at least
>he plays with a live band. when I mean "live", I mean having real
>musicians, not just pretty guys in leather trowsers, triggering samples
>and playing two simple riffs on guitar. Reeves Gabriels or Carlos
>Alomar could play circles around robin finch, but then again Reeves and
>Carlos are not as "cute" as robin.
So, you're saying NIN is shit live, just because they trigger samples
and such? Yes, I admit that Reeves & Carlos are better at the guitar
than anyone NIN has worked with at any time (except for maybe Belew),
but don't go trashing NIN because of that. Robin is very good at
playing the guitar. Do you think Cirque du Soleil would hire a shitty
player? Besides, can anyone imagine Reeves being w/ NIN on a regular
tour? It just wouldn't work.
> All in all, I would rather see an artist working with a great
>band, than a "Rock star" and his pretty band. Bowie might not be 30
>anymore, but he still hasn't lost the touch. A touch that Trent never
>had.
Again, you're judging Trent just because of his "pretty" band. I
don't know about you, but Robin scares me. He's certainly not
"pretty."
>PS I got "rock star" from the last issue of spin. I love the part where
>trent says that he was intimidated by Bowie "I felt like I had to
>impress him". "He was reading poetry, and Discussing German art films"
>Poor trent, David Bowie would not stroke trent's ego, it must really be
>awful when someone will not drop everything to worship at the altar of
>Reznor.
That's bullshit! Read the magazine, you moron!
"...On the Bowie tour, his band hung out in our dressing room all the
time. They didn't want to sit around, reading poetry and talking
about fucking German art movies. They wanted to hang out."
And wouldn't you be intimidated if Bowie was in the same room as you?
I sure as hell would, but that's just me.
So, in the end, they're both good artists. Bowie influenced Trent,
and, IMHO, Trent has influenced Bowie to an extent. If you don't like
either one, fine. Just don't go around making up bullshit stories, or
claiming a live bands sucks just because they're "pretty" or try to
bring sounds into the song that're impossible for a human to do.
AHS's #1 Slave, D.R.
good boy/gone bad/so sorry/so sad -filter
www.abol.com/users/droark
Robb Cunningham
SAME bullshit argument for a couple of lines?
>>trent writes for the pop charts, and Guitar rock was selling at the
>>moment. Broken was just a rock album, plain and simple. As far as I am
>>concerned, all of the above mentioned bands are not industrial. I
>>listen to Second Annual Report and wonder how the hell they is
>>concidered Industrial. I don't hate Chemlab, I just think that it is
>>something other then Industrial music.
.....*YAWN*.....industrial has evolved.....DEAL WITH IT.....
disclaimer: before you send in the "you trendy NIN fuck" flames....I do
NOT consider myself a "NIN fan", I consider him to be "OK", but I could
probably think of 60 bands I'd rather listen to off the top of my head.
I really don't give a fuck what people say about NIN, I am merely trying
to point out the stupidity, hypocrisy, and contradictiveness of the above
article. So could you kindly point all flames in the direction of WHAT I
SAID, rather than the fact that it is NIN-related. (although your
ability to make a straight-forward argument is questionable)
--
ذد à،
Mulaki Sambo
>
> sea...@efn.org (Sean Da Great) wrote:
>
> >
> >there, how ya like that? I like NIN, and i walked out on bowie after the
> >NIN show because, well, i fucking hate bowie. he has the shittiest voice
> >out of ANYONE in the ENTIRE music industry!! (with the exception of alanis
> >morrisette)..
> >reason to hate a certain band.
>
>
> COOL DUDE
KEWL!!!! DEWD!!! K-RAD!!! WHERE ARE THE WAREZ? 127.0.0.1
RAWK ON!!
-blub
GodClod
>reason to hate a certain band.
Try this one out:
Trent has ripped off too many people in the industry to "sell out"...he whores
himself out by taking credit for what other artists have been doing for many
years prior to NIN...
He whines and acts depressed about life... *yawn* ....
Talk about not being able to sing? come on...you are comparing Bowie to TR?
How old are you? obviously too young to know that this is Bowie's third decade
of making music...and your false god, trent, pays such a huge tribute to
Bowie...Why?
Because Bowie is the shit...
Too bad you are too young to know...now go change your underoos...
GodClod
downfall
On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, Sean Da Great wrote:
> > trent writes for the pop charts, and Guitar rock was selling at the
> > moment. Broken was just a rock album, plain and simple. As far as I am
> > concerned, all of the above mentioned bands are not industrial. I
> > listen to Second Annual Report and wonder how the hell they is
> > concidered Industrial. I don't hate Chemlab, I just think that it is
> > something other then Industrial music.
> >
>
> writes for the charts?? not quite.. prety hate machine and broken were
> not popular at ALL until tds came out.. broken?? ha , yah that album did
> just GREAT! it sold about 3 copies, until TDS came around
actually broken hit the charts at number 7. tds hit at number 2. so, in
a way, the popularity of broken helped tds sales. that and a little song
called "closer" in which there is a lot more than just "i wanna fuck you
like an animal" you just have to listen to it.
-downfall
Kathleen Tibbetts
>but you have to admit Bowie is pushing the envelope.
True. _1.Outside_ is an awesome, difficult album. Some people find it
pretentious. Hell, some people thought _Diamond Dogs_ was pretentious,
for that matter.
> Trent will not move in a direction, unless it has been hip for at
> least a year. AKA, synth pop when Depech Mode did Violator....
Interesting assertion. Pretty Hate Machine came out a few months BEFORE
Violator. Whatever PHM may be derivative of, it's probably not that.
If you've gotta bash someone, ANYone, at least check your data first.
The cruel truth is that you can't be right if your facts are wrong. But
thanks for playing. -- KT
Mark A. Pitcher
: chr...@ix.netcom.com (michael taylor ) writes:
: >but you have to admit Bowie is pushing the envelope.
: True. _1.Outside_ is an awesome, difficult album. Some people find it
: pretentious. Hell, some people thought _Diamond Dogs_ was pretentious,
: for that matter.
: > Trent will not move in a direction, unless it has been hip for at
: > least a year. AKA, synth pop when Depech Mode did Violator....
Nobody did anything like TDS until Reznor did it.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mark A. Pitcher | http://www.waterloo.net/~mark
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"GUH!" - Bill Leeb
michael taylor
Box) writes:
>
>chr...@ix.netcom.com (michael taylor ) wrote:
>
>> uhhh...according to Bowie and Brian Eno, Outside was written
>>without the involvement of controlled substances. besides, Bowie
might
>
>What about that game they had to play? You know, the ones with the
>cards. And Bowie had to rely on some Burroughs-like computer program
>to mess around with his writings!
Dorak? "controlled substances" are Drugs, I don't understand how you
got eno's production technique's confused with drugs, I hope you don't
try to get high by listening to Eno solo records <G>(an interesting
concept though)
Deadly serious as usual
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
PS it is so easy to piss you nin fans off, take it easy, it is just
music.
Christina M Hamilton
michael taylor <chr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Hello all
>
Stuff deleted
> The final thing I Dislike about Trent Reznor, he is a rock star.
>Trent thinks that wrecking hotel rooms, and giving groupies enemas is a
>good time. Bowie is trying to create art, he is striving to make better
>music. Bowie is trying to capture the moment, this alienates people,
>because he is about 20 years ahead of his time. When you listen to Low,
>you have to admit for when the record was released(January 9th or 19th,
>1977, if I am not mistaken), was the most futuristic thing out there.
>Trent, Joy Division, Robert Smith, Kraftwerk, they all name check him
>as an influence. Trent is a rock star, Bowie is an artist.
>
>if I pissed you off I am sorry, but time will prove me right.
>Michael Taylor
>Detroit USA
>
I completely agree with you. Bowie has always been ahead of his time.
For example, several years back I taped Teargarden's "Tired Eyes Slowly
Burning" and threw in a bit of Bowie (the one where he talks about
spiders and glass eyes, something like that - forgive my ignorance). In
my opinion, there was no abrupt change - the two just flowed together.
Sorry this is not a very industrial oriented comment.
later
--
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
Christina Hamilton Keeper of the Septimus
"Cracking toast, Grommit!"
Shaken Angel
>> trent writes for the pop charts, and Guitar rock was selling at the
>> moment. Broken was just a rock album, plain and simple. As far as I am
>> concerned, all of the above mentioned bands are not industrial. I
>> listen to Second Annual Report and wonder how the hell they is
>> concidered Industrial. I don't hate Chemlab, I just think that it is
>> something other then Industrial music.
>>
>
> writes for the charts?? not quite.. prety hate machine and broken were
> not popular at ALL until tds came out.. broken?? ha , yah that album did
> just GREAT! it sold about 3 copies, until TDS came around
Uh. PHM became really popular in the college crowd, post-Lollapalooza; I know,
I heard it back in 1991 at a party held by people about as industrial as Jimmy
Buffett. Broken was even more popular, and remember, it was voted "Best Heavy
Metal Album" at the Grammys, whatever year it came out.
TDS had, I think, little to do with the two older releases' popularity.
-- sa / a
"i hate every nun"
Philip Varner
>writes for the charts?? not quite.. prety hate machine and broken were
>not popular at ALL until tds came out.. broken?? ha , yah that album did
>just GREAT! it sold about 3 copies, until TDS came around
What rock have you been living under for the past 5 years?
PHM and Broken not popular till TDS came out. Thats a great one. Heh.
My grandma bought PHM a three months after it came out because it got so much
publicity.
Inert
Sure both Bowie and Reznor are pretentious as hell.
They are also two of my favorite artists. Not for the
lyical content but for the music. They also have had some
great producers such as Flood for Trent and Eno and
for the David's "Outside". Eno doesn't sing much anymore
therefore there is less chance of him being pretentious.
I think brian Eno is making an effort to not be pretentious
for which he should be commended!
-Joe Frank-
michael taylor
>
>
>Sure both Bowie and Reznor are pretentious as hell.
>They are also two of my favorite artists. Not for the
>lyical content but for the music. They also have had some
>great producers such as Flood for Trent and Eno and
>for the David's "Outside". Eno doesn't sing much anymore
>therefore there is less chance of him being pretentious.
>I think brian Eno is making an effort to not be pretentious
>for which he should be commended!
>
>-Joe Frank-
>
>
You don't read too many Brian Eno interviews, he is still the icy
intellectual we have come to know and love. It is a shame that Eno does
not sing too much anymore, Spinning Away has some of the best vocals I
have heard in a long while.
Sincerly yours
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
PS What's wrong with pretention? Pretention can be quite attractive,
you just need the style to pull it off.<G>
phoe...@applewize.com
SC>Try this one out:
SC>Trent has ripped off too many people in the industry to "sell out"...he whor
SC>himself out by taking credit for what other artists have been doing for many
SC>years prior to NIN...
Umm, no. Trent Reznor actually knows what original MUSIC is. Yes, he's
ripped off sounds, but he's done the music better with that sound.
SC>He whines and acts depressed about life... *yawn* ....
This is true.
phoenix.hawk
--
Remember the Censors of the internet, in the November Elections..
Telnet/Finger: applewize.com
michael taylor
>Umm, no. Trent Reznor actually knows what original MUSIC is. Yes,
he's
>ripped off sounds, but he's done the music better with that sound.
I think thats a bit like the Beatles Vs Oasis. "Ya know, Oasis knows
what original music is, they just sound like the Beatles"
I guess I'm old school, I think if someone did something before you
did, then you are not original. (am I way out of line here?)
activate the flash, heaven awaits
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
GodClod
show me that line...i'll be glad to cross it...seems immaginary...
GodClod
March A. Briner
>
> What I meant was that the instrumental sounds were borrowed from Mr.
>Bowie. I am sick of this thread, and after this post I am not going to
>reply to it anymore.
Somewhere in the frist two paragraphs of the Trent Reznor interview in
the February 1996 SPIN magazine, he says where he got the "opening beats"
for Closer. I can't recall exactly where that was from, though...
Sir Marc
michael taylor
>I'm just curious... industrial bands in general "borrow" from one a
>To claim that NIN ripped off industrial music that other people had
been doing
>for years... hmm... gee, isn't that half the fucking industry? The
only
>part I don't get, however, is that I don't quite get who he ripped his
sound
>off of. Explain it to me, because I sure as hell can't think of any
band that
>sounds like NIN.
>
>
>
>[--------------------------------------------------------]
>[ ]
>[ "The greatest trick that the devil ever pulled, ]
>[ was convincing the world he didn't exist." ]
>[ -The Usual Suspects ]
>[--------------------------------------------------------]
Good movie.
What I meant was that the instrumental sounds were borrowed from Mr.
Bowie. I am sick of this thread, and after this post I am not going to
reply to it anymore.
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
Chris Lynch
>he's
>>ripped off sounds, but he's done the music better with that sound.
>
>I think thats a bit like the Beatles Vs Oasis. "Ya know, Oasis knows
>what original music is, they just sound like the Beatles"
>
>I guess I'm old school, I think if someone did something before you
I'm just curious... industrial bands in general "borrow" from one another, and
that's just how it works right now. However, industrial bands that do not
sound like other bands can be labelled unique because they have created their
own identity. At least, I think so...
To claim that NIN ripped off industrial music that other people had been doing
for years... hmm... gee, isn't that half the fucking industry? The only
part I don't get, however, is that I don't quite get who he ripped his sound
off of. Explain it to me, because I sure as hell can't think of any band that
sounds like NIN.
Influences are another story... having influence from a band is pretty much
what every band around today has built upon. Otherwise music wouldn't evolve.
The problem is, however when a band sounds or clones the band who has
influenced it. NIN may have influences, but they certainly do not sound like
any of those bands.
I just think it's funny to hear people say that NIN ripped off other
industrial bands, because there's no one who sounds like NIN. So who the hell
are they imitating?
Just because you don't like NIN doesn't mean that they are clones or
unoriginal.
Please don't write back labelling me a Ninnie... I like NIN, but I am not a
fucking freak. I just can't understand labelling NIN as unoriginal or "just
like band X."
C
[--------------------------------------------------------]
[ Chris Lynch ]
[ President ]
[ Apex, Ltd. ]
michael taylor
>Somewhere in the frist two paragraphs of the Trent Reznor interview in
>the February 1996 SPIN magazine, he says where he got the "opening
beats"
>for Closer. I can't recall exactly where that was from, though...
>
> Sir Marc
>
the album is called "The Idiot" it is by Iggy Pop, its a good album.
The track is called "night Clubbin" he sampled the kick drum sound.
I wish Trent would have sampled his stuff with the Stooges, I think I
would actually get into I Wanna Be Your Dog, with a 909 kick.<G>
Michael Taylor
Detroit USA
PS "ause now I wanna fuck you like a dog"
Now thats punk <G>
GodClod
Look at Ogre and his style (esp. appearance)...then listen to some old Puppy
and Ministry ("Dig It", "Stigmata")...re-evaluate your stance...He bagged parts
of many artists and then packeaged them as "Trent"...so obvious...
Good or not, just isn't orignal...
GodClod
Chris Lynch
Yeah, and it sounds like none of those to me... hmm, so simply because NIN is
popular, he deductively ripped everyone else off to sell records.
Don't think so... but that's just my opinion.
That's a funny claim that you make though, because a lot of bands (esp.
industrial of the modern sense) seem to do a lot of what you are claiming NIN
did. The only difference is that I can say who those bands are ripping off.
NIN doesn't sound even remotely similar to old Skinny Puppy or Ministry in ANY
WAY, IMHO. Especially not Dig It or Stigmata!
Oh well, we just disagree.
Chris
SkimLizard
>>OR the Pigface song "Suck" that NIN claimed as their own
if you look closely, you'll see that trent is credited for the minimalist
"suck" on pigface's "gub" album.
from what i read in AP (or B-Side or something) after trent's stint with
pigface tvt pulled some legal contract shit to keep trent from recording
anything for anyone but tvt.
shortly after he did record the nin version of "suck" for nin's "broken"
ep, but if you listen to any pigface albums after "gub" or go to any
pigface shows, the version of "suck" they play is not the minimalist one
that was recorded on "gub" but trent's nin-ized version. so who's ripping
off who? i don't hear pigface/ martin atkins complaining. i mean jesus,
they're recording HIS version (and more than once).
i also remember some cryptic mention of trent in the liner notes of one of
the later pigface albums, but i'd have to dig it up to check out what it
really says.
besides, meat beat manifesto sampled ministry, consolidated sampled mbm,
fla samples michael douglas films and everyone else, laibach does beatles
and queen songs, etc etc etc.
just commenting,
-skimlizard
Homey G
>In <4etd7r$h...@ophelia.waterloo.net> ma...@ophelia.waterloo.net (Mark A.
>Pitcher) writes:
>>
>>Moron (mo...@islandnet.com) wrote:
>>: That's one kickboxing match I'd pay to see! $5 bux on Bowie. Any
>takers?
>>
>> You're on. Bowie's too old. No amount of coke is going to give
>him
>>the energy to take on someone like Reznor.
>>
> uhhh...according to Bowie and Brian Eno, Outside was written
>without the involvement of controlled substances. besides, Bowie might
>not be able to pretend he is sad, or do the "pain" dance, but at least
>he plays with a live band. when I mean "live", I mean having real
>musicians, not just pretty guys in leather trowsers, triggering samples
>and playing two simple riffs on guitar. Reeves Gabriels or Carlos
>Alomar could play circles around robin finch, but then again Reeves and
>Carlos are not as "cute" as robin.
> All in all, I would rather see an artist working with a great
>band, than a "Rock star" and his pretty band. Bowie might not be 30
>anymore, but he still hasn't lost the touch. A touch that Trent never
>had.
>someone who knew who trent was before the first Lollapalooza
>(and thought he was shit even then)
>Michael Taylor
>Detroit USA
>PS I got "rock star" from the last issue of spin. I love the part where
>trent says that he was intimidated by Bowie "I felt like I had to
>impress him". "He was reading poetry, and Discussing German art films"
>Poor trent, David Bowie would not stroke trent's ego, it must really be
>awful when someone will not drop everything to worship at the altar of
>Reznor.
Why is everyone out to get Trent Reznor now? A couple of years ago NIN was one of the best
industrial bands acording to you people, but now he is a dick. Why do you people seem to think that
becoming popular is such a bad thing. In a year or two, all the popular fucks that think ti was cool
to like NIN will be on their next favorite band.
I think that we all know that the next album will be drastically diferent, so be ready for it. I
comend you if you never liked NIN in the first place, but I am really sick of the people that seem
to like bands only when they aren't known.
Andrew Clegg
>NIN doesn't sound even remotely similar to old Skinny Puppy or Ministry in ANY
>WAY, IMHO. Especially not Dig It or Stigmata!
Terrible Lie reminds me of Dig It a bit, also Down In Is is kind of like
Dig It sped up.
Andrew.
"What's the matter, Eddie, does it frighten you?"
"Frighten me? No, Frank, I think 'startle' is a better word."
NP: Bodychoke -- Hook [Mindshaft]
Shaken Angel
> P.S. I remember seeing NIN tour right after "Too Dark Park", a good friend was
> drumming for them (Abner)...During a song he used a sample right off if "Shore
> Lined Poison" (the acid trip part at the end: "Oh Wow...Orange...something or
> other")...
> BTW, if he is so fucking orignal, why does he parade "Suck" as a NIN song, when
> in fact it is a PigFace song?
>
> GodClod
>
Eh, probably because he wrote it. Although he wrote it *as* a member of Pigface,
so it is ektually a Pigface song.
Now, if he parades "Physical" (or whatever it's called) as a NIN song, then he
deserves to be beaten about the head and neck.
-- sa / adder
GodClod
he
>>deserves to be beaten about the head and neck.
>>then he
>>deserves to be beaten about the head and neck.
he deserves to be beaten about the head and neck
Agreed...
GodClod
Twisting and turning...
Andrew Clegg
<sco...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes
>OR the Pigface song "Suck" that NIN claimed as
(a) As I'm sure you know, Trent co-wrote the original. (b) The version
NIN play is entirely written by Trent. The original had four parts --
vocals, drums, bass and camera, and in the NIN version only the vocals
survive (and even they are changed slightly).
I don't see how Martin Atkins or anyone in Pigface can have any claim
over the NIN version of Suck, but I think it's an academic point as the
Pigface live version (the guitar-ish one, not the sitar-ish one) is
better anyway.
Andrew.
"What's the matter, Eddie, does it frighten you?"
"Frighten me? No, Frank, I think 'startle' is a better word."
NP: Bodychoke -- Shallow [Mindshaft]
GodClod
It has something to do with copywriting it...you know, publishing rights?!!
TR can sing and change and whine all he wants...BUT what he doesn't do (and
should) is throw a bone to Pigface...it is rightfully theirs...
GodClod
downfall
On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, GodClod wrote:
> >NIN doesn't sound even remotely similar to old Skinny Puppy...
>
> You must know something TR doesn't...HE even claims to have ripped off "Dig
> It"...popularity has nothing to do with it...I remember when Trent and Richard
> rolled through here...Trent played with Pigface...Alas, who else was there?
> Check the liner notes to "Gub"...It's funny too, you never commented on the
> ripped-off Puppy sample from "Shore Lined Poison" NIN played live (right after
> "Too Dark Park" was released)
oh migawd! trent sampled a piece of music LIVE! please.
but as for nin coming from land of rape and honey. . . well, that i will
give into. nin and a ton of industrial rawk that's come our way
recently. that albums spawned a ton of stuff. not just nin.
> ...OR the Pigface song "Suck" that NIN claimed as
> their own...even played it at Woodstock...THOSE ARE FACTS!
> Happy to oblige your opinion, but *zap*...please enter more coins...
godclod, open your ears. the nin version of suck is a major rewrite of
trent's (you know, the guy who was nin until he officially took up a
band) version with pigface. martin's stated time and time again that
trent came up with suck by himself, and just credits pigface, or martin
or whatever with writing it. in fact, i thought one set of pigface
credits for suck said "whatever trent says." also, isn't it kinda hard
to call a song he wrote "a rip off?" hm. sorry, but *zap*...please enter
more coins...
-downfall
SkimLizard
Like I said earlier, I don't know why this is an issue at all. I haven't
heard Martin or anyone else from Pigface complaining about trent's use of
a song he wrote (correct me if I'm wrong). He hasn't recorded with them
since gub (1990 release, if i recmember correctly), but I do agreee that
he could at least give pigface a plug sometime.
-skimlizard
GodClod
> says."
obviously missed Martin's sarcasm...
ring that extra to play to matching 00...
GC
GodClod
I have...Point is:
>but I do agreee that
>he could at least give pigface a plug sometime.
exactly...
GC
Chris Lynch
GodClod <sco...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>NIN doesn't sound even remotely similar to old Skinny Puppy...
>
>You must know something TR doesn't...HE even claims to have ripped off "Dig
>It"...popularity has nothing to do with it...I remember when Trent and
Richard
>rolled through here...Trent played with Pigface...Alas, who else was there?
>Check the liner notes to "Gub"...It's funny too, you never commented on the
>ripped-off Puppy sample from "Shore Lined Poison" NIN played live (right
after
>their own...even played it at Woodstock...THOSE ARE FACTS!
>Happy to oblige your opinion, but *zap*...please enter more coins...
I'm just so bewildered by how NIN being influenced by a certain band or a song
is a rip off. Please type the exact statement where Trent said he "RIPPED
OFF" Dig It, because I can't find a Dig It song ripoff on Pretty Hate Machine,
or any NIN album.
Funny how sampling a song now is ripping it off... I seem to remember a post
from you about FLA's sampling not being ripping off, since we're talking about
industrial music. Hmmm, must be different cuz it's NIN and not FLA.
Happy to oblige your opinion and your other opinion, which just happen to
cause a serious paradox when looked at side-by-side.
I'm curious as to how NIN is cheating Pigface, or anyone else, for playing a
completely different version of the song live? I mean, it's not like he
didn't have anything to do with the Pigface version. A lot of bands do the
same thing...
tsw
downfall
On Tue, 20 Feb 1996, GodClod wrote:
> >I don't see how Martin Atkins or anyone in Pigface can have any claim
> >over the NIN version of Suck...
>
> It has something to do with copywriting it...you know, publishing rights?!!
> TR can sing and change and whine all he wants...BUT what he doesn't do (and
> should) is throw a bone to Pigface...it is rightfully theirs...
okay. . . just wondering, if trent wrote the damn thing, how could it be
somebody elses, especially when the nin version is sooo damn different.
also, to make you happy he just tossed atkins name on the credits of nin's
suck, though he really didn't do anything. he just played drums. the credits
reflect whatever trent wants. not atkins, and martin knows this, and has
stated it in an ap interview i read a long time ago.
and for some odd reason, nin's suck is published on leaving hope/tvt
music. hm?
-downfall
downfall
On Thu, 22 Feb 1996, GodClod wrote:
> > just wondering...
>
> Ok...you join Mettallica for a studio recording...(bare with me)...you a have
> concept for a song...you jam with the boys and come up with a specific lyric,
> blah blah blah...the song gets recorded...copywrited...published...released...
> Does the song belong to you? Are there separate rights to the music and
> lyrics?
well, if you take what trent did. ie, go back later. rewrite the whole
thing, and change the lyrics just a bit, then yes, the future product
belongs to you.
> Depends on the contract...but as expected, if TR jammed one song with PigFace,
> I doubt he has the publishing rights to it...maybe...but from taped interviews
> with MA I have, he specifically says "Suck" is a PF song...so can TR come up
> with new music, whines..er I mean lyrics...sure...the point is noone has ever
> credited PF with the original song, except on their releases...
okay, let's take this. "suck" is a pf song, right? well, when you
compare the two versions of "suck" there is no musical similarity between
them. with this as a given what if you and i went out tomorrow and
recorded a song called "suck"? would it belong to pigface?
> Can MA go at TR over this...yeah, right...the court costs would mean nothing
> (no pun intended) to TR, whereas it could sink someone like MA...
> Legalities Smegalities...I happily don't own any nin, so I don't have your
> insight into the credits on his cds...yet, in a taped interview promoting the
that's probably why we're still arguing.
> Pigface tour last November, MA makes references to TR never throwing PF a bone
> over the whole thing...but all of this is bullshit...
okay. . . what about all those ninies out there who bought gub just
because trent was on it? that most certainly is something ma hasn't
taken into account. and believe me, ninnies are thorough when it comes
to owning everything trent has done.
> How about this?
> TR rolled through Chicago before he busted the scene (1988?)...he played in PF
> and was supported in this town by people like MA...Once successful, he puts as
> much distance between them and him...Not only that, but he kept as many other
> people out of nin (R. Patrcik, Jeff Ward, etc..)...Is he creative? Maybe...So
the reason richard and jeff are out of nin were completely different
reasons. richard was out because of personal and musical problems. i'm
sorry, but if there are problems like that between a couple of
individuals, in a band, then one of them should get out. nin is trent so
logic follows that richard should get out. as for jeff. . . i don't
think trent was happy with his druming, live.
> Pigface can sing a song called "Head Like a Hole", come up with new lyrics and
> music and it is so "damn different"...
new music and new lyrics? sure as hell would be different. song titles
and ideas aren't copyrighted, the actual music and lyrics are.
> I guess my belated point is that he could bring intergrity to the situation,
> and god forbid, help those who helped him...how much money is enough?
i'm sure if trent actually felt the need to, he would. after all, he's
already brought in artists he respected into nin (stephen perkins, adrian
belew etc) and had them play on his album. same with remixes. artists
he respects he's contracted to do them.
> An example of such integrity is how Kurt Cobain brought Pat Smear (Germs) back
> from the guitar dead...respect...this business is gross enough the way it is...
kurt brought him in because he liked his style. it wasn't to prove his
integrity. he didn't care. he liked smears and liked his old band, so
he signed him up.
-downfall
GodClod
Ok...you join Mettallica for a studio recording...(bare with me)...you a have
concept for a song...you jam with the boys and come up with a specific lyric,
blah blah blah...the song gets recorded...copywrited...published...released...
Does the song belong to you? Are there separate rights to the music and
lyrics?
Depends on the contract...but as expected, if TR jammed one song with PigFace,
I doubt he has the publishing rights to it...maybe...but from taped interviews
with MA I have, he specifically says "Suck" is a PF song...so can TR come up
with new music, whines..er I mean lyrics...sure...the point is noone has ever
credited PF with the original song, except on their releases...
Can MA go at TR over this...yeah, right...the court costs would mean nothing
(no pun intended) to TR, whereas it could sink someone like MA...
Legalities Smegalities...I happily don't own any nin, so I don't have your
insight into the credits on his cds...yet, in a taped interview promoting the
Pigface tour last November, MA makes references to TR never throwing PF a bone
over the whole thing...but all of this is bullshit...
How about this?
TR rolled through Chicago before he busted the scene (1988?)...he played in PF
and was supported in this town by people like MA...Once successful, he puts as
much distance between them and him...Not only that, but he kept as many other
people out of nin (R. Patrcik, Jeff Ward, etc..)...Is he creative? Maybe...So
Pigface can sing a song called "Head Like a Hole", come up with new lyrics and
music and it is so "damn different"...
I guess my belated point is that he could bring intergrity to the situation,
and god forbid, help those who helped him...how much money is enough?
An example of such integrity is how Kurt Cobain brought Pat Smear (Germs) back
from the guitar dead...respect...this business is gross enough the way it is...
GC
GodClod
SPin Magazine...NIN cover story...read it!
>Funny how sampling a song now is ripping it off... I seem to remember a post
>from you about FLA's sampling not being ripping off...
You have me confused with Druid...but it is funny you used FLA as an example...
Bill Leeb was a Puppy wantabee...ironic...
>NIN is cheating...
whatever the hangups are...it would be really easy to throw a bone to PF...the
only cost is a depleted ego for TR...oh well... that will never happen...
> A lot of bands do the same thing...
Live, sure...copyrighting the song ia a whole other can of worms...
GC
Andrew Clegg
<sco...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes
>>I don't see how Martin Atkins or anyone in Pigface can have any claim
>>over the NIN version of Suck...
>
>It has something to do with copywriting it...you know, publishing rights?!!
>TR can sing and change and whine all he wants...BUT what he doesn't do (and
>should) is throw a bone to Pigface...it is rightfully theirs...
As I said, assuming Reznor wrote the lyrics (they certainly sound like
his style) and vocal melody (more than likely I'd have thought), then
no-one but him has contributed to the NIN version.
I know that it's a bit of a faux-pas to be seen defending NIN in public,
and I think it was rude to credit it on Broken to 'Trent Reznor &
Pigface' (souns like he's trying to dissasociate himself from them), but
I think the version he plays is his song. "There's no bones about it..."
Andrew.
"What's the matter, Eddie, does it frighten you?"
"Frighten me? No, Frank, I think 'startle' is a better word."
NP: Soft Cell -- Soul Inside
Robb Cunningham
Pigface version. He changed EVERY NOTE of the song when he put it on
Broken. Therefore it is a song written by him. Jeez you guys accuse
Trent of whining, and look how much you guys are whining over this
trivial point.
Anyways, what do industrial fans have any say in the issue of stealing
from other bands? One of the actual trademarks of industrial music is
using other people's music in a different context. It's called SAMPLING.
Illusion of Safety has done it without giving credit, Ios Smolders has
done it without getting credit, and I'm sure many, many other so-called
"respectable" industrial bands have done this several times without
anyone giving it a single whine.
Flamebait: in the Coil song, "Love's Secret Domain", Coil "steals" lyrics
from Roy Orbison and a poet (I forgot the poet's name). Coil (as far as
I can tell) does not give any credit to either of these entities, nor
have they ever given even the slightest nod to either of them. Yet no
one is pissing in their pants or having a hissy fit over it. The
difference.....? In fact Coil stole more than Trent did (since Trent
actually wrote the original lyrics himself).
--
Robb Cunningham
iceo...@smartlink.net
"The music of the future is not music." - Environments compilation
"Noise is annoying when you try to ignore it; fascinating when you listen
to it." - John Cage
"It's not what you play, it's what you're plugged into." - Seefeel
"Death metal can onl go so far in being brutal, and the Japanese noise
bands can reduce them to nothing in five seconds" - Bill Yurkiewicz
"Are you ready? We need some discipline in here!" - Gen P.O.
Eric Pierce
<sco...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:
>much distance between them and him...Not only that, but he kept as
many other
>people out of nin (R. Patrcik, Jeff Ward, etc..)...Is he creative?
He didn't keep Richard Patrick & Jeff Ward out of NIN. Jeff
unfortunately died and Richard left because he wanted to be part of the
creative process.
GodClod
good...that may be the reason MA is spiteful about the whole thing...$$$...
maybe not....confirmation???
GC
MARCUS W SPARKS
rence.....? In fact Coil stole more than Trent did (since Trent
>actually wrote the original lyrics himself).
>
everyone off (see the credits on Truth Will Out)
¨
Mark A. Pitcher
: > just wondering...
: TR rolled through Chicago before he busted the scene (1988?)...he played in PF
: and was supported in this town by people like MA...Once successful, he puts as
: much distance between them and him...Not only that, but he kept as many other
: people out of nin (R. Patrcik, Jeff Ward, etc..)...Is he creative? Maybe...So
: Pigface can sing a song called "Head Like a Hole", come up with new lyrics and
: music and it is so "damn different"...
Interesting point, but I think there's more going on behind the
scenes. I think _everyone_ avoids Atkins after they know him (perhaps the
real reason Pigface has a revolving membership?)
As for Suck, I thought that Trent kept the lyrics and melody
(which he came up with himself), and Pigface kept the actual recorded
song. I didn't know that anyone had any problem with that.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mark A. Pitcher | http://www.waterloo.net/~mark
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"GUH!" - Bill Leeb
GodClod
yeah, I know...that was long after the nin tour he played on...TR is a selfish
mofo...Abner was a cool mofo...
GC
downfall
On 23 Feb 1996, Eric Pierce wrote:
> In <Dn6pn...@midway.uchicago.edu> GodClod
> <sco...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:
>
>
>
> >much distance between them and him...Not only that, but he kept as
> many other
> >people out of nin (R. Patrcik, Jeff Ward, etc..)...Is he creative?
>
> He didn't keep Richard Patrick & Jeff Ward out of NIN. Jeff
> unfortunately died and Richard left because he wanted to be part of the
> creative process.
>
i thought he booted jeff before he died, and opted for vrenna.
-downfall
Chris Wiberg
blowing off the "industrial scene" now that he's broken through with the
pop audience. First of all, there's _Further Down the Spiral,_ on which
he works with Coil, Jim Thirlwell, & others, not to mention the previous
TDS singles, where he works with David Ogilvie, Meat Beat Manifesto, &
Adrian Sherwood. Second, this is also the guy who set up his own record
label under Interscope and gave a hand to new bands like Marilyn Manson,
Prick, and Trust Obey, not to mention signing Coil and PWEI. There are
TONS of "pop kids" (myself included to some extent) who have been exposed
to the work of all of these artists entirely due to Reznor associating
himself with them. But of course, he's popular, he must be a.) a
sell-out and b.) an asshole. Many people would be saying the same stuff
if Coil had a top 10 hit.
******************************************************************************
STRAP-ON, the world's most industrial band!
http://lucien.blight.com/~queaze/strapon
******************************************************************************
Dr. Funk, MD: http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~wiberg
Cat Machine (100% pure funk): http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~wiberg/cat
******************************************************************************
LOgre2'3 (Vomit forth your kind as you please! Foul bent cripple! Nobility is lost to you.)
: It's not that he STOLE the song...it's the way he credited it that pissed
Uhm... he credited it to himself and pigface.. how exactly is this wrong?
Should've put Pigface before his name or something?
Tom Priore
bottom of the packaging it says:
8 written by t.reznor/pigface 1991 thumbless music.
Robb Cunningham <iceo...@smartlink.net> wrote:
>Trent wrote the original lyrics and sang the original vocals on the
>Pigface version. He changed EVERY NOTE of the song when he put it on
>Broken. Therefore it is a song written by him. Jeez you guys accuse
>Trent of whining, and look how much you guys are whining over this
>trivial point.
>Anyways, what do industrial fans have any say in the issue of stealing
>from other bands? One of the actual trademarks of industrial music is
>using other people's music in a different context. It's called SAMPLING.
> Illusion of Safety has done it without giving credit, Ios Smolders has
>done it without getting credit, and I'm sure many, many other so-called
>"respectable" industrial bands have done this several times without
>anyone giving it a single whine.
>Flamebait: in the Coil song, "Love's Secret Domain", Coil "steals" lyrics
>from Roy Orbison and a poet (I forgot the poet's name). Coil (as far as
>I can tell) does not give any credit to either of these entities, nor
>have they ever given even the slightest nod to either of them. Yet no
>one is pissing in their pants or having a hissy fit over it. The
>difference.....? In fact Coil stole more than Trent did (since Trent
>actually wrote the original lyrics himself).
>--
downfall
On Sun, 25 Feb 1996, Tom Priore wrote:
> Mr. reznor does give credit to pigface, look very carfull at the
> bottom of the packaging it says:
> 8 written by t.reznor/pigface 1991 thumbless music.
> Robb Cunningham <iceo...@smartlink.net> wrote:
but trent should still be forever in debt to martin for letting him into
pf, though trent would do perfectly fine without pf's royalties and the
exposure it gave him. he still would've landed lollapalooza, woodstock
and all those magazine cover stories. despite this, trent should owe
everything he's got to martin atkins.
-downfall
MARCUS W SPARKS
>
>
>On Sun, 25 Feb 1996, Tom Priore wrote:
>
>> Mr. reznor does give credit to pigface, look very carfull at the
>> bottom of the packaging it says:
>> 8 written by t.reznor/pigface 1991 thumbless music.
>> Robb Cunningham <iceo...@smartlink.net> wrote:
Giving credit to "Pigface" is meaningless...I think my mom even wrote some of
their stuff.
The credit should have been to "Atkins/Reiflin/Barker/Reznor". He could have
even moved his name to the front of the list since he did indeed change a lot
of it.
Marc
GodClod
He is an asshole...that is fact...surry...
GC
GodClod
forgot yer <sarcasm> </sarcasm>...the whole point was lost...
looking for flames?
too bored to go on with this...
GC
SkimLizard
>-downfall
i thought chris vrenna was with/ around trent and nin since the beginning?
-skimlizard
SkimLizard
>pf, though trent would do perfectly fine without pf's royalties and the
>exposure it gave him. he still would've landed lollapalooza, woodstock
>-downfall
finally, someone shows common sense.
besides, trent's version had guitars and, um, guitars suck and...
(four seconds of silence)
:)
-skimlizard
downfall
On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, GodClod wrote:
> > despite this, trent should owe everything he's got to martin atkins.
>
> forgot yer <sarcasm> </sarcasm>...the whole point was lost...
oops. i just figured you could actually *feel* the sarcasm dripping off
that post.
> looking for flames?
no. i could care less if i get flamed.
> too bored to go on with this...
yeah. . . i keep posting the same shite. thread's dead, baby. thread's
dead.
-downfall
downfall
well, vrenna was there for a while, then he and trent had a falling out
(lovers spat?) and then they went there seperate ways. trent hired jeff
as a replacement, and here's where i'm fuzzy. either jeff died before he
left nin or he left (fired?) nails and then died. either way, it's a
shame that jeff's life ended. in an ideal world he'd still would be
sitting behind a drum set for somebody.
-downfall
GodClod
after not landing the nin gig (which I know he was looking forward to doing),
he did sporatic Revco work, yet with Martin and Bill around, he didn't have a
permanent band spot...he was qutie a cool guy...always on, even off stage...
he could crack anyone up...but he had no band or girlfriend...my friend still
has a set of skins from Abner...fucking sucks...
GodClod
GodClod
> dead.
shit...now I have to go find a rockstar and bruise his/her ego....won't be too
hard to find... ;->
GodClod
downfall
On 26 Feb 1996, SkimLizard wrote:
> >but trent should still be forever in debt to martin for letting him into
> >pf, though trent would do perfectly fine without pf's royalties and the
> >exposure it gave him. he still would've landed lollapalooza, woodstock
> >and all those magazine cover stories. despite this, trent should owe
> >everything he's got to martin atkins.
>
>
> >-downfall
>
> finally, someone shows common sense.
>
> besides, trent's version had guitars and, um, guitars suck and...
> (four seconds of silence)
that's why the new version is still called "suck" <sarcasm marks for the
impaired>
-downfall
Chris Wiberg
> i thought trent's first "band" was the exotic birds. . . he he he. then
> he moved on to lucky pier (prick) and then a bunch of others. could be
> wrong, though.
So far as I know he wasn't actually a member of Lucky Pierre, though he
did play/sing on some of the songs. I think the Exotic Birds were his
first band. If you don't count his high school marching band...
(Can you tell I used to read amnin?)
downfall
On 28 Feb 1996, March A. Briner wrote:
> In article <4gu1dl$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> skiml...@aol.com (SkimLizard) writes:
> >
> >i thought chris vrenna was with/ around trent and nin since the beginning?
> >-skimlizard
>
> I remember reading somewhere that Trent and Chris were both in Option 30,
> Trent's first band. Of course, that might possibly be wrong, so please
> don't flame me too bad if it is...
>
i thought trent's first "band" was the exotic birds. . . he he he. then
he moved on to lucky pier (prick) and then a bunch of others. could be
wrong, though.
-downfall