Sales Figures
John Nowakowski
Does anyone know how many copies the albums of various industrial (or
quasi-industriul) bands have sold? I am trying to draw up a prospectus
for an industrial project and some good figures are essential: thus
figures for bands like NIN, KMFDM, Stabbing Westward, Ministry, etc are
needed. Thanks in advance.
Kevin J. O'Conner
Check Billboard. You won't get exact numbers, but you will at least be able to
find out how charting bands like NIN and Ministry are selling (i.e., whether
they've reached gold or platinum status)...
--
Kevin J. O'Conner d.b.a. Tinty Music
P.O. Box 85363, Seattle, WA 98145-1363 USA
e-mail: tntm...@halcyon.com
http://www.halcyon.com/tntmusic/welcome.htm
Pol Rob
John Nowakowski wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how many copies the albums of various industrial (or
> quasi-industriul) bands have sold? I am trying to draw up a prospectus
> for an industrial project and some good figures are essential: thus
> figures for bands like NIN, KMFDM, Stabbing Westward, Ministry, etc are
> needed. Thanks in advance.
It just so happens I recently pulled some Soundscan figures up for my own
sinister purposes, and I'll share them with you, but if anyone, (e.g.
Re-Constriction, Cleopatra, Fifth Colvmn) feels like this is a breach of
music biz etiquette, just let me know and I won't do it again...
(Also keep in mind Soundscan is not ultra-accurate, and becomes less
accurate the more underground a band is...)
Sister Machine Gun Burn 14,919
Psykosonik Unlearn 4550
Autechre Tri Repetae 2398
Chemlab Burn Out... 16,837
EBN Telecomm... 7276
KMFDM Nihil 118,079
Gravity Kills 82,753
Stabbing Westward Wither... 150,483 (Wait for returns)
Spahn Ranch Coiled One 1179
Download Furnace 5908
There are some groups that you would recognize that I did not include,
cuz they were pretty low and let's not kick 'em when they're down.
Have I pissed anyone off?
<<<PJR>>>
andy@interface mag
In article <4oo0rf$k...@news.nevada.edu>, woz...@nevada.edu (John
Nowakowski) wrote:
> Does anyone know how many copies the albums of various industrial (or
> quasi-industriul) bands have sold? I am trying to draw up a prospectus
> for an industrial project and some good figures are essential: thus
> figures for bands like NIN, KMFDM, Stabbing Westward, Ministry, etc are
> needed. Thanks in advance.
kmfdm's _nihil_ sold 300,000 units. that's a hell of a lot considering
when i interviewed smg, _sins of the flesh_ hadn't sold more than 10 or
20,000 (which is still a lot).
andy@interface
The Wicked
In article <31B122...@webcom.com>, Pol Rob <hype...@webcom.com>
writes:
>(Also keep in mind Soundscan is not ultra-accurate, and becomes less
>accurate the more underground a band is...)
This is VERY important to keep in mind when reading numbers of indie
bands. There have been LARGE debates within the music industry about the
validity and weight placed on sound scan numbers.
From what I am aware: If the store doesn't use a cash register that is
keeping track of the bar codes of the music it sells (thus keeping track
of the individual titles the store sells) and is not using Soundscan
software too, it won't be reporting its numbers to Soundscan. It is not
illegal or wrong not to report to Soundscan, just a question of how
sophisitcated their Point of Sales (cash register) systems are.
What then happens is an indie store that actually does have sophisticated
POS systems (cash registers) will then get its sales counted more (2x -
10x) than it actually sold to make up for the stores near it that weren't
counted.
What has then happened is that indie label XX jumps up and down in glee
over their tremendous sales on their newest release according to
Soundscan...6 months later they get their returns from the record
stores/distributors that show their sales were grossly less than they
thought/were led to believe by Soundscan.
This system obviously does not account for the different specialties of
different indie retailers and thus Soudnscan is often referred to in the
industry as Soundscam.
It is "fair" to list Soundscan numbers for the releases that have received
some mass success (Filter, Gravity Kills, Stabbing Westward), but for
bands on indie labels, this really is misleading (in both directions).
Question for Digital Underground and Isolation Tank: Are your sales
reported to Soundscan?
~ashley
thew...@aol.com
GoDaM! Governed by Electronics
WMFO 91.5fm Boston
Tuesday nights at 10pm
GoDaM! Governed By Electronics
WMFO 91.5fm Boston
Tuesdays at 10pm
bmCn...@tunanet.com
Ok...
Anybody watching this thread was probably waiting (or not) for me to get
into it so here goes. Music Biz 101 continues for anybody interested...
1) Everything Ashley said is right on... plus this...
2) Soundscan is based on a system of taking a sample (From selected
stores) and extrapolating a figure through an algorhythmic calculation,
therefore IT IS NOT AN _EXACT_ NUMBER OF ACTUAL RECORDS SOLD.
2a) This calculation is not just used to calculate HOW MANY records were
sold but also 1) Where by Geographic Region and 2) What Type of Store
(Major Chain, Regional Chain, Small Chain, Mom & Pop, Rackjobber (i.e.,
Target, Best Buy, etc.), Etc)
3) Soundscan HEAVILY FAVORS mall stores, chains, and rack jobbers (i.e.,
see GARTH BROOKS). These are the large corporate retailers with massive
computer systems (which in many cases are largely FUCKED, but thats
another story).
4) Although I have personally seen Soundscan numbers be A MARGINAL
FRACTION of ACTUAL SALES I have heard of Soundscan numbers representing
ALMOST DOUBLE THE NUMBER of ACTUAL SALES. And NO, I won't post examples
of either as a proffesional courtesy...
5) Why does the Industry use Soundscan?
a) Soundscan ALWAYS uses the SAME formula (i.e. it's consistant and
can not be easily manipulated - > *Manipulation* is the KEY word here...
b) Before Soundscan, Labels (mostly majors) would secure Billboard
chart postions through Bribes and Favors (mostly to Record buyers who
reported their weekly sales to Billboard - For a price you could chart
just about anything...and they did...), thus the chart was never acurate
OR consistant.
c) So far it's the best thing we have and gives us access to WHERE
and WHO we are selling the act we're trying to push. We can match this
info against Tour Markets, Radio Markets, Advertising Markets to attempt
to find out what works and what doesn't. (Uhmm as a rule we find MTV and
Top 40 Radio to work VERY WELL... sarcasm intended)
6) The record industry is taking a beating from poorly managed chains
who are grossly mismanaged (on an operational and store level), so
almost everything above could change radically in the next 6 to 9
months... But than again it almost always does anyways...
7) My respect goes to independents such as Roadrunner, TVT and Metal
Blade who know how to "READ" Soundscan figures into an ACURATE model of
the marketplace.
8) Me go sleepy now :-)
- bmCnelis
The ever wondering mouth...
"Never get out of the boat..."
John Greer
I agree with you 100%. I manage a store that reports to Soundscan
and the major labels HAVE found a way to manipulate it. Particularly
with cassette and CD singles. We have five full shelves of single
product priced at $.99 and $.49. People buy that crap by the
handful regardless of who or what it is simply because it's cheap.
Recently Mariah Carey boasted her last single sold twice as many
as Michael Jackson's making her Music Royalty. That's because her
record company (which her husband is the CEO of) sent out twice
as many fifty cent cassette singles, not because it was any better.
I've also noticed that only stores that report to Soundscan get
this "free" product to be sold for fifty cents.
Soundscan is a step above the old methods, but it's still
manipulated, it's still PAYOLA and it still sucks. The small
labels and bands can't afford to give away product to be sold
dirt cheap to get their sales in the books.
Wow, I feel better...sorry for the ranting!
John
--
iDjiT
custom screen printed
clothing - posters - dementia
pob 9454
mobile, al 36691
(334) 633-5439
email id...@cris.com
The Wicked
>Soundscan is a step above the old methods, but it's still
>manipulated, it's still PAYOLA and it still sucks.
It may be manipulative, but it's not PAYOLA. Read Hit Men. That's Payola
at its most frightnening (sp?) heyday. Let's be very very thankful that
for the most part, payola is no longer a part of the music RETAIL
industry. Now only if the other sectors could be so luck.
ashley
thew...@aol.com
....What Is?....
In article <4oo0rf$k...@news.nevada.edu> woz...@nevada.edu (John Nowakowski) writes:
>Does anyone know how many copies the albums of various industrial (or
>quasi-industriul) bands have sold? I am trying to draw up a prospectus
>for an industrial project and some good figures are essential: thus
>figures for bands like NIN, KMFDM, Stabbing Westward, Ministry, etc are
>needed. Thanks in advance.
Unless you have a promotion/distribution/sales/publicity engine
comparable to theirs, their sales figures won't be comparable to
yours.
There's art and then there's business. Don't confuse the two.
Steven Boswell
wha...@yyz.com
John Nowakowski
I could really care less about what system is more accurate or less
accurate. I didnt count on getting EXACT sales figures, just some
approximate numbers. Has NIN gone platinum? Has Ministry, KMDFM or any
other bands gone gold? How many Puppy albums have sold? Someone must
have some figures on the major (and not so major) industrial bands.
Rowan-Morrison
> In article <4oo0rf$k...@news.nevada.edu> woz...@nevada.edu (John Nowakowski) writes:
> >Does anyone know how many copies the albums of various industrial (or
> >quasi-industriul) bands have sold? I am trying to draw up a prospectus
> >for an industrial project and some good figures are essential: thus
> >figures for bands like NIN, KMFDM, Stabbing Westward, Ministry, etc are
> >needed.
If you're on an independent label or are self-released, you'll probably
have to rely on independent distributors, such as Caroline, Cargo, Metropolis,
etc. Most new cyber projects that are distributed through the independent
chain move between 1500 to 4000 cd's. It's sad when you compare it to
the 15,000+ average that Major Label distributors move, but that's how it
is. Look for my Choking on Staples column dealing with distribution in the
upcoming Industrial Nation for a more in-depth perspective.
boba chase