a question
Say Hamad
but lata retired lots of singers came in limelight???
cansomebody tell me please
thanks in advance
Afzal A. Khan
I suppose the answer is contained in your question itself !!
Afzal
Neha Desai
> > when lata was in herprime therewas no new singer recording any songs,
> > but lata retired lots of singers came in limelight???
> > cansomebody tell me please
> > thanks in advance
There were tons of singers even then, you just need to check the Geet
Kosh to see who the other singers were.
--
Neha
UVR
The original poster is wrong, of course, about "no other singers."
But I think the key point that was being made was about singers
"in the limelight."
When Lata was singing, few other singers managed to come into
the limelight -- only the truly good ones did so. And I, for one, am
grateful that it happened this way.
-UVR.
Artnut
"UVR" <u...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:952bed71-38e7-4f7c...@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Perhaps this has been discussed here before and there are lot of rumours and
maybe some truths about how Lata sidelined others and even Asha remained
mostly under Lata's shadows. But who was more responsible? The MD's who
thought of none other than Lata or Lata herself who coerced MDs to use her
singing? I often wonder how could Lata single-handedly make the MDs dance to
her tunes? I think it was Sajjad who said about Lata "Kambakht kabhi galat
hi nahi hoti" Doesn't it mean that only a person of her stature/quality of
singing can compel the MD's to use her voice? If one is not so popular then
what standing would that person have to influence someone?
Arty
Chetan Vinchhi
Sure :)
> I think it was Sajjad who said about Lata "Kambakht kabhi galat
> hi nahi hoti"
"kambakht kabhii besurii nahin hotii" is attributed to Bade Ghulam Ali
Khan. You needn't have guessed. This has *also* been discussed here
before. google is your friend :)
C
Prasanna Tamhankar
Lata Mangeshkar" IIRC).
This very issue has been discussed at length.
>> but lata retired lots of singers came in limelight???
BTW, who says Lata has "retired"? :-)
Cheers,
Prasanna
Manish Kumar
it was sajjad hussain who said that even if lata sneezes, the music
industry shakes. i don't take his comments very seriously because they
were imbalanced e.g. galat mehmood, shor kumar.
Manish Kumar
incorrect info. despite his experiences, his integrity is
questionable. i agree with uvr's post to an extent (1) lata was best
(2) mds wanted her (3) lata alone cannot be blamed but mds also.
however, too many reliable sources indicate lata could hinder entry of
new singers. there's some truth to it. 2 possible scenarios: (1)
greater vareity of singers who are probably not as good as lata. (2)
one great voice, less variety.
despite lata's intrinsically supreme voice - not all compositions
require her virtuosity. quality doesn't have to be compromised - as
people often think. a song like "tere bina zindagi se koi" absolutely
required lata. however, a supreme but simple composition like "rahe na
rahe hum" from mamta (1964) was splendid in suman kalyanpur's vocals.
we got vareity and kept quality.
in fairness, let's compare (if possible) the mangeshkar monopoly with
the rafi-kishore-mukesh triumvirate. after all, weren't those three,
amongsts themselves, just as dominant? those three offered variety
opposite each other. lata & asha offered variety opposite each other.
key difference is that rafi-kishore-mukesh were three separate
personalities whereas lata & asha were one "team".
Asif
All said and done, I have always observed that all those songs that
Asha sang for OPN required only her, and nobody else, not even Lata,
could have sung them. Who deserves kudos for it - OPN or Asha? Maybe
both. Anyway, only these 15 singers really made it to the high sky
(all others fell short or flat) - I am also listing my all-time top
favorite solos of theirs:
1. K.L. Sehgal - 'jab dil hii TuuT gayaa' (Shahjahan, 1946)
2. Noorjahan - 'aaja aaja merii barabaad mohabbat ke sahaare' (Anmol
Ghadi, 1946)
3. Talat Mahmood - 'ai mere dil kahii.n aur chal' (Daag, 1953)
4. Rafi - 'ba.ndaa parawar thaam lo jigar' (Phir Wohi Dil Laya Hoon,
1964)
5. Mukesh - 'jaane kahaa.N gaye wo din' (Mera Naam Joker, 1970)
6. Lata - 'naina barase.n rimajhim rimajhim' (Woh Kaun Thi, 1964)
7. Kishore Kumar - 'chala jaataa huu.N kisii kii dhun me.n' (Mere
Jeevan Saathi, 1972)
8. Geeta Dutt - 'waqt ne kiyaa kyaa hasii.n sitam' (Kaghaz Ke Phool,
1959)
9. Asha Bhosle - 'jaaiye aap kahaa.N jaaye.nge' (Mere Sanam, 1965)
10. Hemant Kumar - 'na tum hame.n jaano' (Baat Ek Raat Ki, 1962)
11. Manna Dey - 'nadiyaa chale chale re dhaaraa' (Safar, 1970)
13. Suman Kalyanpur - 'chale jaa chale jaa jahaa.N pyaar mile' (Jahan
Pyaar Miley, 1970)
14. Suraiya - 'dha.Dakate dil kii tamannaa ho' (Shama, 1961)
15. Mahendra Kapoor - 'badal jaaye agar maalii' (Bahaaren Phir Bhi
Aayengi, 1966)
Asif
Manish Kumar
He would have done better to use both Geeta & Asha like the way SD
Burman did with Rafi & Kishore. Geeta is famous for gliding through
tunes so naturally. This was a unique dimension that she added and
even took some of OP's simplest tunes to immortal heights with her
magic. Even before personal problems, OP stopped giving songs to
Geeta. He indicated that Asha was emotionally involved with him and
told him to give only songs to her (Asha). I don't at all buy the
argument that only Lata & Asha were the voice of heroines. Geeta Dutt
could have been fostered by OP and Guru Dutt. Both let her and
themselves down. This was one of OP's greatest regrets even 30 years
later.
Chetan Vinchhi
>
> it was sajjad hussain who said that even if lata sneezes, the music
There is probably an element of truth in that particular statement
which is neither personal nor sentimental. Recording infrastructure
was a precious resource. Cancellation of recordings meant mounting
charges as well as cascading effects on other aspects of the film
(e.g. song had to be recorded before picturization). Since at her peak
Lata's calendar was pretty packed, this meant huge financial losses
not only to the folks immediately affected producers but to those who
would be affected due to shifting dates.
> because they
> were imbalanced e.g. galat mehmood, shor kumar.
:) Don't believe everything anyone says someone said. Another popular
story is w.r.t. Sajjad naming his dog after another composer. Turns
out, Sajjad never owned a dog :)
C
UVR
> >
> > because they
> > were imbalanced e.g. galat mehmood, shor kumar.
>
> :) Don't believe everything anyone says someone said. Another popular
> story is w.r.t. Sajjad naming his dog after another composer. Turns
> out, Sajjad never owned a dog :)
>
Sajjad could still have named a dog after that other music director.
Owning a dog is not a pre-requisite for naming one, is it? :)
-UVR.
Chetan Vinchhi
>
> Sajjad could still have named a dog after that other music director.
> Owning a dog is not a pre-requisite for naming one, is it? :)
What a delicious thought! "jaa beTaa, yah baasii roTii bagalwaale ke
kutte XYZ ko khilaa aa"
C
Srivatsa
> wanted to read raju bharatan's lata bio but he is known to provide
> incorrect info. despite his experiences, his integrity is
> questionable. i agree with uvr's post to an extent (1) lata was best
> (2) mds wanted her (3) lata alone cannot be blamed but mds also.
> however, too many reliable sources indicate lata could hinder entry of
> new singers. there's some truth to it. 2 possible scenarios: (1)
> greater vareity of singers who are probably not as good as lata. (2)
> one great voice, less variety.
>
> despite lata's intrinsically supreme voice - not all compositions
> require her virtuosity. quality doesn't have to be compromised - as
> people often think. a song like "tere bina zindagi se koi" absolutely
> required lata. however, a supreme but simple composition like "rahe na
> rahe hum" from mamta (1964) was splendid in suman kalyanpur's vocals.
> we got vareity and kept quality.
Rahen na rahen hum from Mamta was still sung by Lata herself. where
did Suman kalyanpur appear from?
Manish Kumar
> Rahen na rahen hum from Mamta was still sung by Lata herself. where
> did Suman kalyanpur appear from?
There was a solo version by Lata AND a duet version of the same song
with Rafi & Suman Kalyanpur. This was during the period when Rafi &
Lata weren't singing together. I'm glad we had both Suman and Lata
singing as both songs were really sweet. Variety AND quality! :)
Jay
Gentlemen:
Why do you all give iall give so much importance to the VOICE ?
Very true indeed, what we all hear, is finally the voice in/of the
song. But, has anybody ever gone deeper and thought of the ingredients
that make up that song in question ? Every one partaking in the birth
of that or any song has a SHARE .Yes , thats it. Not merely Lata or
Asha or Rafi , etc And above all this, rhe MUSIC DIREXTOR is the
'supreme architect' of the birth of that TUNE. Here, I omit the word:
song, because WORDS OF THE SONG too get rightful credit...whatever the
lyrics.
That is what I opened a personal discussion with Anil Biswas just
before his demise and when he was in Mumbai. The same thing that I
have stated above, I told him. I even went a bit further and added:
Dada: I sincerely feel (irrespective of the popularity of your
composition), the one MELODIOUS PLUS FACTOR in 'most' of your songs is
the IMMENSE contribution & self playing of the saxaphone at the
appropriate places of various intensities and durations in the song.
The melodic factor is greatly enhanced consequently giving a boost to
your creation!!
Dada acknowledged readily my opinion and said: I was a like Master
Taylor: I used to only compose the tune and pass it on to Ramsingh for
him to to do the rest.
THOSE WERE HIS WORDS.
The singer was called in, rehearsed a good no.of times and the date
fixed for the final take.
Now , all of you tell me: How much quantum of credit will the VOICE
get as compared to the other rightful beneficiaries of any particular
song !!
Jay
6/4
Manish Kumar
leg, head, body, etc. they are NOT independent of each other.
allocation also depends on the song.
some compositions are so great that the song will be good even with a
top 15 singer rendering them. often, super singers like rafi and
kishore make the difference between a "good" song and an "immortal"
song. super singers make the MOST out of a composition and fully live
up to its potential.
zindagi bhar nahin bhoolenge; mere mehboon tujhe mere mohabbat; yeh
duniya yeh mehfil; tere mere sapne; - they are outstanding
compositions.
THANKS TO THE MDs, rafi is revered for these songs. true. yet, shankar
once remarked that SOMETIMES sj didn't realize they had composed a
great tune until rafi sang it! i dare to say that had a top 15 singer
rendered those compositions - we wouldn't have realized just how good
they were! those compositions required a very special ability to
perfectly express emotions in the VOICE that only rafi could execute!
songs like suhani raat dhal chuke - no one but rafi could even execute
because it requires supreme voice control!
zindagi ek safar hai suhana; chai pe bulaya hai: khaike pan
banaraswala. first two were excellent, catchy compositions that would
have been "good" and popular had a top 15 singer rendered them. yet
kishore took them to extra heights with the unique, brilliant
personality in his voice! only because kishore added his unique magic
to those songs, they were #1 on binaca geet mala. they wouldn't have
been as popular with another singer! the last composition imo is
average but kishore made it a rage and memorable even today with the
energy and personality in his voice.
in a different scenario, look what pancham and madan mohan did with
decent singers in 1942 love story or veer zaara. the songs in those
movies were very good (super hit), and memorable even to this day in
the voice of kumar sanu and udit narayan. even though the compositions
of 1942 love story remind us of early 70s peak pancham, those songs
aren't remembered AS fondly as "zindagi ke safar mein" or "rhim jhim
gire sawan". some will disagree but this opinion is widely held even
by aRDents.
then you have a composition like nothing is impossible. yes, whether
the singers were rafi & kishore or you and me - it'd make no
difference.
i discussed only singers & mds to keep it simple. the third dimension
lyricsts who are supremely important (as are the musicians). i'll
discuss them another day. op nayyar gave the lyricist maximum credit
for a song (i think 50%). i wouldn't dare undestimate them.
it is true - mds could determine the popuarlity of singers. but
singers could determine the immortality of mds! in the early 70s we
had mahendra kapoor and shailendra singh prominent on the binaca geet
mala charts! and true, some songs (especially by mk) are revered even
today. but a lot of those songs are not remembered nearly as fondly
today as the gems of rafi and kishore from that same period! an even
more extreme case of that today where songs & singers are remembered
for a few months and then forgotten. nevermind 20 years. songs of rafi
and lata are so perfectly and angelically executed that they meet the
highest expecations of music lovers even 50 years later. they have
that natural element that any human can appreciate regardless of
background (e.g. melody, emotions, sweetness) like the way sunlight
does! sunlight has been hitting people for 1000s of years. do people
even after 80 years feel "bored" of it? no, they still revere the
brightness, warmth, and beautfy of sunlight! same with the voices of
rafi & lata!
without sj, sdb, madan mohan, naudhad, ravi, chitragupta, op nayyar,
etc we wouldn't have the legend of rafi. same is true vice versa! look
at laxmi-pyare! when they just started and were unknown in a low
budget film - rafi and lata mentored them! then years later in the 70s
- lp would go on to give rafi & lata the maximum songs!
very enjoyable discussions!
Jay
Manish Kumar jee:
Excuse me for my intrusion..I have to aince I have to give you an
appropriate answer for all your post.
Thus, its very essential for me atleast, to know :
your present age;
since how long have you been listening cine music ( no.of years);
:you give importance to the singer or the song;
who are your personal favorites; male/female & MDs
On the basis of what you furnish about yourself to my above querries,
I will answer you appropriately. You too can retort back in whichever
way you want.
=Jay=
6/4
maheshks
earlier used by S D Burman in...thandi hawaayen...sajaa
and later by his son in...saagar kinare...saagar...
However, Roshan had earlier used thisl tune, as that of
rahein na rahein hum, in chandni chowk...it was
sung by asha bhosle and the song was..tera dil
kahaan hai sab kuchh yahaan hai, picturised on
smriti biswas. For me, the Asha's version is more
sweet.
surjit singh
> Rahein na rahein hum....Simply influenced by Waltz
>
> earlier used by S D Burman in...thandi hawaayen...sajaa
> and later by his son in...saagar kinare...saagar...
I had heard that one of Salil Choudhary's songs was influenced by some
Western composer :)
I am sure Mahesh Kumar will tell us all about it next :) :) :)
maheshks
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sure..Salil Choudhury used the first movement of Mozart's
40th Symphony in ...itna na mujhse tu pyar badha..in chhaya
Abhay Jain
"Manish Kumar" <mku...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:59081820-6391-4e80...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
No record was issued for the Suman duet version from Mamta.
This song came up in my conversation with Sumanji in Feb.
She was disheartened that no record was issued.
One thing people may not know that unlike Lata, Suman Kalyanpur's
husband was well off and she did not need to sing to feed her family.
AJ
maheshks
ok here is the video of the song....tera dil kahaan hai...
..compare the sisters lata and asha
Asif
Wow! This Asha solo from Chandni Chowk is fantastic, and it sure is
far better than Lata's 'Tha.nDii hawaae.n' (Naujawaan, 1951), Lata's
'rahe.n na rahe.n ham' (Mamta, 1966), and KK-Lata's 'saagar
kinaare' (Saagar, 1985). But, of course, SDB gets credit for the
original and excellent composition in Naujawaan.
Thanks Mahesh for the discovery and video of this song. I have always
believed that the number of Asha songs that Lata could not have sung
is greater than the number of Lata songs that Asha could not have
sung. Asha Bhosle remains my top favorite female singer.
Manish Kumar
I'm 23. Since 5, I've loved Rafi. A vivid childhood memory is
listening to the opening lines of Salamat Rahe Dostana Hamara and
understanding the perfectly expressed emotions of Mohd. Rafi! John
Johnny Janardhan was another. However, I didn't "really" start
listening to <1980 music until TWO years ago. In fairness, my
generation has luxuries like the internet to listen to music at a much
faster rate than someone 30 years ago. 30 years ago you had a weekly
radio or a had to save up for a ticket to rewatch a 3 hour movie for
one song. Today the rarest songs are only a few clicks away!
If you're stil reading :) - my favorite MDs are SJ (by far), Roshan,
OP Nayyar, and SD Burman. I also like Naushad, LP, RD Burman, and
Madan Mohan. I revere SJ for their versatility and consistent quality
for 20+ years. Rock, slow, fast, romantic, sad, SJ did it all! Rafi,
Mukesh, Kishore, Asha, Lata - SJ succeeded with them all! Roshan has
consistently given compositions that touch your heart. OP Nayyar's
tunes are so fun and peppy! My favorite singers are Mohammed Rafi (by
far), Kishore Kumar, Lata Mangeshkar, and Geeta Dutt.
I was about to get hfgk and then thought it'd be inappropriate for my
age. I figured, right now I should do "young stuff", listen to the
heavenly tunes, and get the hfgk when I'm 45. Besides, listening comes
before discussing. One should take pride in experience & knowledge of
music ONLY because knowledge lets them BEST enjoy the music as they
are aware of the treasure. Jay, I really enjoyed your posts. I must
have not expressed myself well to appear to put singers before MDs. I
don't. You seem not to be giving ENOUGH importance to voice. Many of
your contemporaries will disagree with you! It's funny that I started
off insisting on variety of voices and now the tables have turned on
me :)
- Manish
Jay
I truly appreciate the gesture in your reply.
If YOU really want to ENJOY cine music, just cast off that EGO
( however trivial it may be ) in you saying to yourself: Now I am
going to listen cine music one by one everything and give (your)
judgement purely on the song MERIT ( lyrically or tunfully or both or
by rendition... whoever it may be). This is the criteria you have to
set up in your MIND while listening any song.
As of now, in your MIND is SETUP or CLOGGED voices of Md.Rafi, Lata-
Asha & MDs like SJ / Opee...ok? True , the quoted names have been a
great commercial success...I accept that. But, what we are discussing
is 'appreciation or enjoying music through its melodic structure'.
Thats it ! THIS IS THE POINT OF MY DEBATE and always it will be.. the
composition may be anyhow made...fast, slow, jazz, romantic, duet,
chorus...just anything. Out from this 'bhelpuri' you have to
discriminate the 'thing' you are 'searching/seeking... the higher
level '.This requires indulgence, mind application and takes time.
Jay
7/4
Prithviraj Dasgupta
> "Manish Kumar" <mkum...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:59081820-6391-4e80...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >On Apr 5, 12:51 pm, Srivatsa <srivatsa.ghan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Rahen na rahen hum from Mamta was still sung by Lata herself. where
> >> did Suman kalyanpur appear from?
>
> > There was a solo version by Lata AND a duet version of the same song
> > with Rafi & Suman Kalyanpur. This was during the period when Rafi &
> > Lata weren't singing together. I'm glad we had both Suman and Lata
> > singing as both songs were really sweet. Variety AND quality! :)
>
> No record was issued for the Suman duet version from Mamta.
> This song came up in my conversation with Sumanji in Feb.
> She was disheartened that no record was issued.
>
A quick note related to the duet version of the 'rahen na rahen ham' -
I've recently received a few queries about the availability of a Lata-
Hemant duet version of this song. I am not/wasn't aware of such a
version from watching the movie (about 20 years ago) and listening to
its sdtrk CS/CD. I was also informed that the initial screenings of
Mamta in movie theaters had this Lata-Hemant duet and that it was
chopped off from later screenings.
-pdg/
Manish Kumar
Rafi - Suman version of Rahe Na Rahe Hum. Several times in the 2
minute duration, the recording seems to start and skip about all of a
sudden. Hearing of a Hemant - Lata duet makes me even more thoughtful
but I won't jump to conclusions. Anyone heard of / have the Hemant -
Lata recording? Would love to listen to it. Thank you!
Manish Kumar
>what we are discussing
> is 'appreciation or enjoying music through its melodic structure'.
> Thats it ! THIS IS THE POINT OF MY DEBATE
Jay, can you please elaborate this? Thank you.
UVR
> On Apr 4, 10:11 am, UVR <u...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sajjad could still have named a dog after that other music director.
> > Owning a dog is not a pre-requisite for naming one, is it? :)
>
> What a delicious thought! "jaa beTaa, yah baasii roTii bagalwaale ke
> kutte XYZ ko khilaa aa"
>
> C
Agreed, you don't have the freedom to name a "baGhal waale kaa"
kutta, but what about the street dog that eats from your garbage?
Are all street dogs in India 'cleaned up' now, or were there none
during Sajjad's time?
Don't answer. This is not even about the topic the O/P asked about.
--
-UVR.
Jay
Do not put that much weight on Sajjad, please. From whichever angle
you look at his music composing SKILLS ...repeat music composing
skill, his OUTPUT has been 'stale'. Commercially, his music has never
been a successful seller'.
OK. Lets forget commercially for the moment & talk about
aesthetically. His music is devoid of any real classical touch by any
standards, its just what is known in musical parlance as
'tukbandhi'..... Lagi to lagi, nahi to Abdul Gani
I wonder if you are aware of my 'cold war' with Dr. Abdul Aziz on
this subject of SAJJAD HUSSAIN ! I won't brag on this but i can say
definitely that I did open his MIND by convincing him of what he could
be ignorant of in the field of music composing skills. ....Are you
aware of this?
I am ready to receive from you any amount of criticism. It doesn't
affect me
Jay
8/4
Chetan Vinchhi
>
> Listen Mr. UVR:
> Do not put that much weight on Sajjad, please. From whichever angle
> you look at his music composing SKILLS ...repeat music composing
> skill, his OUTPUT has been 'stale'.
This is new. Whatever you accuse Sajjad of, his music does not qualify
for staleness. His tunes are probably the most original of all.
Perhaps that is what bothers you. You cannot find an anchor in
familiar territory.
Talking of classical touch, I bet if an innovative classical usage
jumped out of the water and smacked you in the face, you wouldn't
recognize it.
C
Afzal A. Khan
Sri Jayaraman,
For the benefit of new entrants/participants of RMIM (that
excludes Yours Truly), I think you should give a brief
recap, as it were, of who Dr. Aziz is and some details of
the 'cold war' you had with him. Did you finally convince
him about his ignorance in these matters ? BTW, did you
get his phone number and e-mail ?
Afzal
Jay
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are a very senior RMIMer in this forum; Ok? Everyone knows that.
Right:
I am sure you must have known of the COLD WAR I was having with
Dr.Aziz years ago around 1994 or so. At that time i was in service and
residing in this same place at Dombivli which now has been turned into
my music room/library as BCSP.
This Dr.Aziz thence used to post articles on cine music in SCREEN
which was a very popular weekly publication. During one such edition I
noticed a half page article on the Music of Sajjad Hussain penned by
Dr.Aziz. Trust me, his language and diction...was top class . I salute
that.
But what really irked me was the 'matter' in his columns with
assistance from ex announcer, Vijaylaxmi Deserum, who it appears was
in close touch with Aziz.
It set my head rolling on reading his columns. Facing stiff
resistancce from my better half as well as loose attendance to my
office duties, I went to Exoress Office and got hold of Dr.Aziz's
address and our COLD WAR started through correspondence...hand
written. He too responded equally handwritten by huffing-n-puffin as
usual. This went on for a good many months and then I sent him a
cassette in which I recorded some colorful film numbers to FIND OUT
his response after listening to them. I had specifically requested him
to listen them 'through HIS MIND as I had advised Mr Manish Kumar
recently. I also had requested him to listen and judge his conscience
in the evaluation of styles
Came his reply after a fortnight or so in a SOFTENED TONE this time.
He acknowledged my cassette and concurred with my views since he
remembered his late elder brother's views "coincided with mine"
Finally , he did accept that Sajjad could only be ranked in Class 'B'
for whatever he has dished out in his brief fimy career. MOst of his
fims were commercial flops barring DOST('44) and a patiallly
successful SANGDIL.
The rest of his film songs were MADE POPULAR by Radio Ceylon through
regular broadcasting. That is the whole TRUTH.
Mr Vinchhi: how many film songs have you HEARD (from any source) or
have you in your collection (in any format) of SH ? On what basis are
you lauding him sky-high ... for his originality? You mean the REST of
the composers lack originality?
Have you met SH in person? Well: I have met him in person... in
person I have had a one2one discussion with him on music composing
ART.
Anything more you want to shoot?
Jay
8/4
Jay
>
> - Show quoted text -
Afzal Ji:
The funniest part of our correspondence that was raging for quite some
time was when he sent his top emissary Vijaylaxmi Deserum to INTERVIEW
me by intimating me in advance of his proposal. Before I could reply,
there was a phone call to me from USA ( I was on duty in General
Manager Central Rly's Office). I could not follow what the other end
was saying and I kept the phone down. and within an hour or so, my
peon came running to advise me that a lady wants to see me. I was
shocked and wondering who could it be and went out to find out. OMG,
she was none other than Mrs Deserum.
Believe me, I have nothing against her personally since, after all;
she was a mere announcer...just a mere announcer...just doing her
duties by playing records just as the her previous colleagues used to
do it. Unlike me, they never did any 'research' in cine music during
their respective tenures. I have told this to Gopal Sharma too many a
time.
I asked a friend of Gopal Sharma this blunt question:
During his (GS' 11 year tenure in Radio Ceylon, did he ever play EVEN
ONCE this beautiful solo number of Khursheed from MUMTAZ(':44) Dil ki
dhadkan banaa liya.... No , never ...Finally it was Manohar Mahajan
who played this song first time in BHOOL-e-BISRE in the mid-60s decade
and thereafter this song became popular.
Jay
8/4
Kali Hawa
> Gentlemen:
>
> Why do you all give iall give so much importance to the VOICE ?
song !!
>
> Jay
> 6/4
I AGREE, MUSIC DIRECTOR & LYRICIST SCORE HIGHER THAN SINGER IN
CONTRIBUTION TO BIRTH OF A SONG. ALL LATA SONGS CAN BE FAIRLY WELL
RENDERED BY OTHER LESSER SINGERS BUT A
REMIX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND LATA IS GOOD BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE WAS GIVEN A CHANCE TO STAND UP TO
HER. THERE IS MORE SYRUP IN SUMAN KALYANPUR'S VOICE, THERE IS MORE
MISCHIEF IN GEETA DUTT'S VOICE, THERE IS MORE PATHOS IN JOHRABAI
AMBELEWAI, THERE IS MORE APPEAL IN MUBARAK BEGUM'S VOICE ETC. THE
POINT IS WHY THE SONGS HAVING SUCH EMPHASIS NOT GIVEN TO THEM? SURELY
MUSIC COMPOSERS MUST HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THE STRENGTH OF THOSE OTHER
SINGERS. SADLY THEY ALL FOLLOWED THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTENCE.
WOULD LATA BE ANYTHING SHE IS WITHOUT MADAN MOHAN, SHANKAR JAIKISHAN,
HEMANT KUMAR , S D BURMAN ETC. WHY THE NUMBER OF HER CLASSICS
DISAPPEARED IN SEVENTIES? BECUASE THEN NAUSHADS,SJS, HEMANTS, SD
BURMANS ETC HAD LEFT THE MUSIC SCENE.
WITHOUT DOUBT SHE WAS BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM BUT WAS SHE AMITABH
BACHAN OF MUSIC, NO 1 TO 10? AN EMPHATIC NO!
BUT I AM NOT AN ADMIRER OF YOU JAY SAHIB.
Jay
> I suggest reading Harish Bhimani's book on Lata (titled "In search of
> Lata Mangeshkar" IIRC).
> This very issue has been discussed at length.
>
> >> but lata retired lots of singers came in limelight???
>
> BTW, who says Lata has "retired"? :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Prasanna
Prasannajee:
I would say regarding your above post that you would tend to be the
most foolish chap trying to seek genuine info/knowledge about film
music ...ane that too from a person of HB's stature.. repeat stature.
You may ask why-n-how ?
Do you know who that person is?? Surely a human being...True
You could add...He has written a book on Lata and it has been widely
acclaimed !Once again ... True. and also TRUE that music lovers of
LATA enjoy this.book..
Now you may ask me: why am I dumping this guy despite he-n-hisbook's
popularity ?
Lets take a BREAK here for a few hours... in order to receive a
feedback from you hitherto.
Jay
8/4
Jay
Manish:
I suggest you email me a copy of your post (whatever) at my Yahoo or
gmail or rediff or hotmail or indiatimes ID( its the same: sjhhhtm).
On this forum, everything gets messy.... Please
Jay
Kali Hawa:
You shouild not be ANYONE"s admirer except that of MUSIC...that is
DIVINE Who the hell is Jay? Kachra I consider myself every moment of
my LIFE. I am learning every moment of my LIFE by introspection...from
active interaction/feedback...calling music lovers as much as
possible...playing before them songs ...make them listen
intently...question them appropriately..and in a way ENLIGHTEN
them...with ready PROOF... MAKE THEM LISTEN, LISTEN...convince them as
to why they are GROPING in the dark with 'bakwas' literature &
articles on film music.
Now you tell me from the botom of your heart.. can anyone or is anyone
ready to do or go that far today so far as film music is concerned???
Please, its better you always keep 'kicking' at me since I enjoy them
thoroughly!
Jay
8/4
Abhay Jain
"Prithviraj Dasgupta" <prith...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ad291506-ba18-4f07...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
I saw this movie on the second day of release at Bhopal in 1966.
I distinctly heard Rafi and not Hemant.
AJ
UVR
Listen Mr. Jayaraman,
First, what is your age/DOB? How long (years) have you been
using Internet and USENET? Yes, these are relevant.
Second, I was not talking about Sajjad. It will be good for you
(and your internet connection, not to mention the Internet as a
whole) if you actually read a post before replying to it. What
you know about Sajjad or what I don't know about him does
not matter to the post you were responding to. Please re-read
my post, if you will, kindly. Thank you very much.
PLEASE also note CAREFULLY that I am not questioning
your 'dedication' (such as it is) to Hindi film music or your
experience with it, or your free listening sessions, which
are praiseworthy indeed (and certainly more than I hope
to achieve myself in this lifetime).
-UVR.
Manish Kumar
> "Prithviraj Dasgupta" <prithvi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Cool! Nice to have lived through that golden period! You have FIRST
HAND knowledge of matters. People from my generation know only
whatever little was shared with us. Even then, we can be susceptible
to incorrect information like the crap Raju Bharatan likes to write.
Thanks for the account.
Gurcharan S Sandhu
>
> Cool! Nice to have lived through that golden period! You have FIRST
> HAND knowledge of matters. People from my generation know only
> whatever little was shared with us. Even then, we can be susceptible
> to incorrect information like the crap Raju Bharatan likes to write.
> Thanks for the account.
Harish Bhimani, too, had knowingly slipped in grossly incorrect
information
in his book that Lata Mangeshkar had sung 25,000 songs. There go the
factual information, reliability and trust out of the window.
Gurcharan
Jay
>
> - Show quoted text -
Manishjee:
Please do not accuse anyone even if he has committed any errors or
slips. After all, this R/B was doing cricket commentary thence as well
as writing on cine music in FILMFARE regularly. Primarily, his was a
journalistic profession and posting articles even on his wife's name G/
R....just like Anil Biswas used to do for music direction. THE AIM WAS
TO EARN MONEY from as many sources/avenues as possible since he had a
fairly good vocablary and the journalistic experience. BUS; thats
all...nothing more. He, & like him others,viz Nalin Shah, Harish
Bhimani,and quite a good many others used the newspaper dailies to
project themselves by producing crap articles on popular singers/
MDs ...through rehash.
Tell many how many of these writers really love music and ready to
join me in debate on film music. They will not come...I bet. They
know deep within them their capability. For example: BCSP has so many
times INVITED THEM personally and through INVITATION CARDS for its
numerous listening-sessions at DADAR ever since 1998.
NOT ONE OF THEM responded.....Why? Didn't they have time for one
program atleast ...but they could attend others' programs like KEEP
ALIVE's now-n-then !
Was i their opponent? But I never used to write for any newspaper or
mag !
Please think and reply
Jay
9/4
Chetan Vinchhi
>
> Mr Vinchhi: how many film songs have you HEARD (from any source) or
> have you in your collection (in any format) of SH ? On what basis are
> you lauding him sky-high
On the basis of his compositions, his unique use of Lata's vocals and
yes, his originality.
Just throwing a phrase as if you know more about composing than you
wish to reveal does not carry any weight. Your tukbandi line of attack
is weak and unsubstantiated.
> You mean the REST of the composers lack originality?
In terms of percentages, I think yes. I haven't heard all songs
composed by him or, for that matter, by any composer. But I haven't
yet come across a song of his which was inspired by an existing tune.
Have you? I am willing to be educated.
> Have you met SH in person?
That is immaterial.
C
Afzal A. Khan
{Rest of the post meant for Shri Chetan Vinchhi deleted}
>
> Jay
> 8/4
Sri Jayaraman,
Thank you very much indeed for this detailed response. Except
for the particulars furnished above, many "new" RMIMers would
have been non-plussed by your reference to Dr. Aziz, etc.
Obviously, you do not hold Sajjad Husain in great esteem, while
some 'seasoned' RMIMers do (e.g. Chetan Vinchhi, UVR etc.).
While we have come across the cliche "to each his own" umpteen
times in our Newsgroup, members can always have detailed
discussions (heated or -- preferably, otherwise) about the
relative merits of their positions, likes etc.
You have made some general remarks (rather, negative comments)
about Sajjad --- like his lack of originality. But, for any
meaningful discussion, these need to be substantiated by actual
examples. These, in turn, can be disputed or rebutted by the
other side. Shri Vinchhi has already questioned you as to why
you consider SH's compositions as lacking in originality.
There is another point that I may be permitted to bring to your
notice. You have used the word "tuk~baNdi". Normally, this
(pejorative) term is used for lack-lustre lyrics where some sort
of rhyming pattern is all that the poet cares for, and which
(otherwise) seem to lack literary merit. Is it appropriate to
use this term for a music composer, unless he himself authors
the lyrics ?
One last point : I believe the surname of the lady announcer
should be written as "de Saram".
Afzal
Jay
Afzaljee:
I have only stated that SH's music in films are nothing to be raved
about . He had a style of his own but: as Rajkumari once pointed out
when she came to my house after learning that I had YATEEM ('45)
records...about SH she expressed 'staleness' repeat 'staleness'...
bus, ek hi style aur rythem unka...one two, one two..etc. She had very
high lofty praise for K.Datta; Jnan Dutt; Pt.Govindram' Shyamsunder,
Gulam Hyder, Amir Ali, Saraswati Devi, Anil Biswas.
You hear the songs from KASAM ('47)...horrible...what Rajkumari said
was really true.. the Geeta Roy solos ...not appealing. Whe a song is
bereft of MELODY...thats it...it has to be labelled as 'ordinary'.
What does Vinchhi know of Govindram or Master Inayat Hussain or Rafiq
Gaznavi or pt.Amarnath. You mean to endorse that only SH was ORIGINAL
and all those indicated afore had no originality? THIS IS WHAT I
ARGUED WITH Dr. Aziz in my correspondence with him. He just had no
answer because my views coincided with that of his LATE BROTHER from
whom Dr.Aziz imbibed a lot. The cassette I had sent him contained
selected recordings of those great stalwarts. He was bowled lock,
stock & barrel.
I also had a similar stint with late Mr 'Pula' Deshpande, a Marathi
literary genius who was well versed in classical music and 'natya
sangeet' too. I once sent him a C60 cassette in which I had recorded
some exceptional melodies featuring MDs Timir Baran, Gulam Hyder,
Shyamsunder, Pt.Govindram, Feroze Nizami, Anil Biswas, Kamal Das Gupta
and sent it to his Pune residence with a note requesting him to listen
to them intently and give a feedback !
He acknowledged my cassette and replied that he would listen to them
and revert.After about a fortnight, I recd a reply typed on his letter
head :
I listened to the songs in your cassette.
These songs require an analytical bend of mind, which I;
unfortunately; do not possess.
Thank you.
=PLD=
Jay
9/4
Ritu
> On Apr 6, 5:02 am, maheshks <emkaysha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Rahein na rahein hum....Simply influenced by Waltz
>
> > earlier used by S D Burman in...thandi hawaayen...sajaa
> > and later by his son in...saagar kinare...saagar...
>
> I had heard that one of Salil Choudhary's songs was influenced by some
> Western composer :)
>
> I am sure Mahesh Kumar will tell us all about it next :) :) :)
Yes and I am sure there are many who would like to hear about it
too :) ! I know we've been here for donkey's years and have discussed
and discovered everything, but there are many RMIMers who would like
to take the same pleasure we did when we first discussed and
discovered these facts. No?
Cheers
>
>
>
>
>
> > However, Roshan had earlier used thisl tune, as that of
> > rahein na rahein hum, in chandni chowk...it was
> > sung by asha bhosle and the song was..tera dil
> > kahaan hai sab kuchh yahaan hai, picturised on
> > smriti biswas. For me, the Asha's version is more
> > sweet.- Hide quoted text -
Abhijit
> On Apr 6, 10:49 am, surjit singh <surjitsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 6, 5:02 am, maheshks <emkaysha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Rahein na rahein hum....Simply influenced by Waltz
>
> > > earlier used by S D Burman in...thandi hawaayen...sajaa
> > > and later by his son in...saagar kinare...saagar...
>
> > I had heard that one of Salil Choudhary's songs was influenced by some
> > Western composer :)
>
> > I am sure Mahesh Kumar will tell us all about it next :) :) :)
>
> Yes and I am sure there are many who would like to hear about it
> too :) ! I know we've been here for donkey's years and have discussed
> and discovered everything, but there are many RMIMers who would like
> to take the same pleasure we did when we first discussed and
> discovered these facts. No?
>
> Cheers
>
You said it. Just the other day as we were planning for a chorus song
to be sung during torch relay ceremony, a song came up and when I said
I've never heard it, a local veteran remarked "What! That's so *^@#$
polupar, how can anyone miss it?" and gave me a look as if I am the
stupidest person on earth. And now this. I wonder who's real dumb. One
who is ignorant of a piece of information that many are aware of or
one who is ignorant of the fact that there are people with different
backgrounds, different tastes, different priorities, different
environments of upbringing.
Manish Kumar
outstanding post by the late Mr Satish Kalra. I regret not having had
the opportunity to converse with him.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc/msg/595d1e31071c04dc
kcp
> I also had a similar stint with late Mr 'Pula' Deshpande, a Marathi
> literary genius who was well versed in classical music and 'natya
> sangeet' too. I once sent him a C60 cassette in which I had recorded
> some exceptional melodies featuring MDs Timir Baran, Gulam Hyder,
> Shyamsunder, Pt.Govindram, Feroze Nizami, Anil Biswas, Kamal Das Gupta
> and sent it to his Pune residence with a note requesting him to listen
> to them intently and give a feedback !
>
> He acknowledged my cassette and replied that he would listen to them
> and revert.After about a fortnight, I recd a reply typed on his letter
> head :
>
> I listened to the songs in your cassette.
>
> These songs require an analytical bend of mind, which I;
> unfortunately; do not possess.
>
> Thank you.
> =PLD=
>
> Jay
> 9/4- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Npw this is intersting !! Jay ji , can you please explain more when
you said "stint" . You sent the cassette just out of the blue, or you
had some previous discussions ? If you had some sting "before" sending
the cassette, then knowing the way PL responds, I am doubtful about
his real meaning in that sentence :D
kcp
Jay
>
> - Show quoted text -
By stint, I meant : Lets make an earnest attempt to FIND OUT from the
well known Marathi films' MD: P.L Deshpande, who DID score MUSIC in
Marathi films between the period: 1949 - 57 or so.Moreover, I had also
heard of him as a very 'raaga proficient musicologist'.
On the basis of above, I thought : lets see how PLD responds to my
cassette in which I had specially recorded beautifully some 10 numbers
or so of various MDs like Timir Baran, Pankaj Mallick, R.C.Boral,
Gulam Hyder, Pt.Amarnath, Shyamsunder, Pt.Govindram, Feroze Nizami ,
Khemchand Prakash, Jnan Dutt * S.K.Pal......one song of each of
them...the ones I really felt as ' truly awesome by any standards' .
To comment on those songs, I was under the FIRM BELIEF - Those 11
music composers were the last word in film music....Opinions could
differ.. but lets hear it from PLD !
How do you visualise it, OR how do you see PLD's MIND reacting to
those songs as he keeps listening them one after the other !
HIS REPLY WAS:
Dear Jay:
I heard the songs in your cassette intently.
These songs require an analytical bend of MIND, which unfortunately; I
do not possess.
Thank you,
sd/- PLD
Pune
=Jay=
15/4