Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Lata's mis pronunciation in shin shinaki bublaaboo - kaise hain mijaaz (sic)
83 views
Skip to first unread message
vrk
May 14, 2012, 7:49:27 AM5/14/12
to
was listening to this song and realised that lata sings the line as 'mijaaz' instead of mizaaj. the rhyme of the song (aaj/raaj etc) also suggests that the word should be mizaaj. but she repeats mijaaz again and again.
was this some kind of 'pavan kare sor" or was it a mistake?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FixUD8PeHgE
was this some kind of 'pavan kare sor" or was it a mistake?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FixUD8PeHgE
surhall
May 14, 2012, 12:25:43 PM5/14/12
to
suhas
May 14, 2012, 12:58:59 PM5/14/12
to
On May 14, 9:25 pm, surhall <surh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 14, 7:49 am, vrk <kumar.vr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > was listening to this song and realised that lata sings the line as 'mijaaz' instead of mizaaj. the rhyme of the song (aaj/raaj etc) also suggests that the word should be mizaaj. but she repeats mijaaz again and again.
>
> > was this some kind of 'pavan kare sor" or was it a mistake?
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FixUD8PeHgE
>
> surh...@gmail.com
> On May 14, 7:49 am, vrk <kumar.vr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > was listening to this song and realised that lata sings the line as 'mijaaz' instead of mizaaj. the rhyme of the song (aaj/raaj etc) also suggests that the word should be mizaaj. but she repeats mijaaz again and again.
>
> > was this some kind of 'pavan kare sor" or was it a mistake?
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FixUD8PeHgE
>
> lata ji sing as per geetkaar give .song
> dhall
If she mispronounced it MD should have corrected her,
> dhall
vrk
May 14, 2012, 8:52:52 PM5/14/12
to
it is not possible that the geetkaar rhymes mizaaj with aaj and does not know how it is pronounced.
jiyaa kee chhori can be taken as a slip of tongue. mijaaz seems to be a forced error.
jiyaa kee chhori can be taken as a slip of tongue. mijaaz seems to be a forced error.
Sudhir
May 15, 2012, 6:00:03 AM5/15/12
to
Some Urdu alphabets (specially KHUDA, KHUD, KHABAR etc) have been
problomatic for artists
The song writer (lyricst) are not involved in how the singer
pronounce the words,
so the issue of having a mis-pronounced word corrected does not arise.
All singers (right from early 30s) have made extra efforts to
pronounce these Urdu
words correctly. However, once in a while error do occur. For
example:
1 / Bedrad Zamana Tera Dushman Hai to Kya Hai
- Both Hemant and Lata
pronounced 'KHUDA' as 'Kuda' fe times
2 ANARKALI / Zindagi Pyar Ki Do Char Ghadi (78 rpm version) -
Hemant mis-pronounced
one word (the LP version is soundtrack)
3 GUMNAM - Gumnaan Hai Koi (the small portion - slightly different
recording, which
appreared in Film only). Lata mis-pronounced 'KHABAR' as
KABAR
Sudhir
Note: One should not include songs, where words were delibrately mis-
pronounced (e.g.: in Phirkiwali
Tu Kal Phir, Mera Naam Hai Chameli, Haal Kya Hai Dillon
Ka na Poochho Sanam) - all
composed by Laxmikant - Pyarelal
problomatic for artists
The song writer (lyricst) are not involved in how the singer
pronounce the words,
so the issue of having a mis-pronounced word corrected does not arise.
All singers (right from early 30s) have made extra efforts to
pronounce these Urdu
words correctly. However, once in a while error do occur. For
example:
1 / Bedrad Zamana Tera Dushman Hai to Kya Hai
- Both Hemant and Lata
pronounced 'KHUDA' as 'Kuda' fe times
2 ANARKALI / Zindagi Pyar Ki Do Char Ghadi (78 rpm version) -
Hemant mis-pronounced
one word (the LP version is soundtrack)
3 GUMNAM - Gumnaan Hai Koi (the small portion - slightly different
recording, which
appreared in Film only). Lata mis-pronounced 'KHABAR' as
KABAR
Sudhir
Note: One should not include songs, where words were delibrately mis-
pronounced (e.g.: in Phirkiwali
Tu Kal Phir, Mera Naam Hai Chameli, Haal Kya Hai Dillon
Ka na Poochho Sanam) - all
composed by Laxmikant - Pyarelal
vrk
May 15, 2012, 10:34:10 AM5/15/12
to
> 1 / Bedrad Zamana Tera Dushman Hai to Kya Hai
> - Both Hemant and Lata
> pronounced 'KHUDA' as 'Kuda' fe times
i did not find a single instance of mis pronunciation
> - Both Hemant and Lata
> pronounced 'KHUDA' as 'Kuda' fe times
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8kMi4VYAIA
all are very clearly Khuda (from the epiglottis)
>
>
>
> 2 ANARKALI / Zindagi Pyar Ki Do Char Ghadi (78 rpm version) -
> Hemant mis-pronounced
> one word (the LP version is soundtrack)
>
>
> 3 GUMNAM - Gumnaan Hai Koi (the small portion - slightly different
> recording, which
> appreared in Film only). Lata mis-pronounced 'KHABAR' as
> KABAR
>
did not find it in the main song
> 3 GUMNAM - Gumnaan Hai Koi (the small portion - slightly different
> recording, which
> appreared in Film only). Lata mis-pronounced 'KHABAR' as
> KABAR
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjyr9JYd3-I
is there a link to the small portion with the purported error?
the reason i am surprised is that i hold all these singers in great esteem when it comes to pronunciation. so such instances are either rare or because of some reason which is due to the way the character on screen speaks.
Sudhir
May 16, 2012, 3:27:57 AM5/16/12
to
On May 15, 7:34 pm, vrk <kumar.vr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 1 / Bedrad Zamana Tera Dushman Hai to Kya Hai
> > - Both Hemant and Lata
> > pronounced 'KHUDA' as 'Kuda' fe times
>
> i did not find a single instance of mis pronunciation
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8kMi4VYAIA
>
> all are very clearly Khuda (from the epiglottis)
>
>
>
> > 2 ANARKALI / Zindagi Pyar Ki Do Char Ghadi (78 rpm version) -
> > Hemant mis-pronounced
> > one word (the LP version is soundtrack)
>
> which word was that?
>
> > 3 GUMNAM - Gumnaan Hai Koi (the small portion - slightly different
> > recording, which
> > appreared in Film only). Lata mis-pronounced 'KHABAR' as
> > KABAR
>
> did not find it in the main song
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjyr9JYd3-I
My posting was quite clear, with details recording sources.
> > 1 / Bedrad Zamana Tera Dushman Hai to Kya Hai
> > - Both Hemant and Lata
> > pronounced 'KHUDA' as 'Kuda' fe times
>
> i did not find a single instance of mis pronunciation
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8kMi4VYAIA
>
> all are very clearly Khuda (from the epiglottis)
>
>
>
> > 2 ANARKALI / Zindagi Pyar Ki Do Char Ghadi (78 rpm version) -
> > Hemant mis-pronounced
> > one word (the LP version is soundtrack)
>
> which word was that?
>
> > 3 GUMNAM - Gumnaan Hai Koi (the small portion - slightly different
> > recording, which
> > appreared in Film only). Lata mis-pronounced 'KHABAR' as
> > KABAR
>
> did not find it in the main song
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjyr9JYd3-I
If a film's VCD/DVD is available, then in most cases files at
YouTube are SoundTrack vesion. Furthermore, there
are files have static video, the underlying audio may be
soundtrack version.
YouTube is not the reference point, aginst which you can
judge my very specific pointers.
ANARKALI
========
It is the 78 rpm record. I have it on an LP, made by EMI Pak and
was released few years earlier than release of ANARKALI LP
MEHNDI
======
Again it is the 78 rpm version
GUMNAAM
========
If you have the VCD /DVD then play it and you will find
the recording which is slightly different than the one on
LP / tape / CD (complete song), which has Lata's
'Khabar'
Please don't ack me to give the exact point where these events can
be located.
Sudhir
vrk
May 16, 2012, 9:18:51 PM5/16/12
to
78 rpms were not draft versions. they were surely final versions. surprised that such gross errors were made in final takes and later corrected for the soundtrack recording!
please do post a clip of the songs if possible.
Khuda and Khabar are words which most students of urdu, associate early enough as the 'Khe' sound. so for lata to make these errors is shocking. gum is something a lot of people are confused. even kishore in gum hai kisi ke pyar men sings it as ghum hai first and then corrects himself later.
of course the funniest is mr anil kapoor in mr india with his Khurana sahab (epiglottis) and Khaana Khaaya (epiglottis). classic case of - if all you have got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
please do post a clip of the songs if possible.
Khuda and Khabar are words which most students of urdu, associate early enough as the 'Khe' sound. so for lata to make these errors is shocking. gum is something a lot of people are confused. even kishore in gum hai kisi ke pyar men sings it as ghum hai first and then corrects himself later.
of course the funniest is mr anil kapoor in mr india with his Khurana sahab (epiglottis) and Khaana Khaaya (epiglottis). classic case of - if all you have got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Sudhir
May 18, 2012, 3:34:01 AM5/18/12
to
GUMAAM song
============
This is not the version which is on records / tapes / CDs etc
On my VCD, it appeared after the 1st instance of record versionn,
which has
the 1st para: Kis Ko Samjhen Hum Apna
and prior to song: Ik Ladki Hai Jis Ne Jeen
Duration of subject song: abou 45 seconds
It was repeated 2 more times
=====================
ANARKALI
========
the 78 rpm version may be available on Hemant Kumar's compilations.
The duration
will be about 2:50 min compared to 2:15 or so for SoundTrack
version
MEHNDI
======
probably on Lata + Hemant (or vice versa) - Duets compilation
Sudhir
============
This is not the version which is on records / tapes / CDs etc
On my VCD, it appeared after the 1st instance of record versionn,
which has
the 1st para: Kis Ko Samjhen Hum Apna
and prior to song: Ik Ladki Hai Jis Ne Jeen
Duration of subject song: abou 45 seconds
It was repeated 2 more times
=====================
ANARKALI
========
the 78 rpm version may be available on Hemant Kumar's compilations.
The duration
will be about 2:50 min compared to 2:15 or so for SoundTrack
version
MEHNDI
======
probably on Lata + Hemant (or vice versa) - Duets compilation
Sudhir
Afzal A. Khan
May 18, 2012, 12:28:46 PM5/18/12
to
pertaining to the Assam/Meghalaya area. The people who were
depicted in the movie might not have been adept at pronouncing
Urdu words correctly. So Lata need not be held responsible for
the "mistake".
When songs picturized on tribal folk are shown in movies, it is
not unusual to include words or sounds, which are commonly
referred to as "anokhe bol". One example :
"Aajoo re baajoo naajoo, kaajoo re kooii wooii"
This is from "Sharada" (1957), where again the music was
provided by C. Ramchandra.
Afzal
Abhay Phadnis
May 18, 2012, 3:24:27 PM5/18/12
to
On Monday, 14 May 2012 17:19:27 UTC+5:30, vrk wrote:
> was listening to this song and realised that lata sings the line as 'mijaaz' instead of mizaaj. the rhyme of the song (aaj/raaj etc) also suggests that the word should be mizaaj. but she repeats mijaaz again and again.
>
I was reminded of this thread when listening to one of my favourite songs a few minutes ago: "jaanaa na dil se duur" sung by Lata in 'Arzoo' (1950). I am always amused by Lata's rendition of the word "naazuk" in this song: she renders it as it is pronounced in Marathi, with the "u" sound elongated (naazuuk). The point is, the very early Lata songs do have several glitches, including egregious ones like the "ghuu.NghaT kaaDh ke gudiyaa naache" line from "merii laaDalii" (Andaz) - always good for a laugh!
> was listening to this song and realised that lata sings the line as 'mijaaz' instead of mizaaj. the rhyme of the song (aaj/raaj etc) also suggests that the word should be mizaaj. but she repeats mijaaz again and again.
>
Urdu pronunciation did not come naturally to her; she took great pains to get it right, and she did it quite early in her career. Her songs past the very early 1950s showcase Hindi/Urdu enunciation that is about as close to perfect as it can get (with the lamentable exception, as Sanjeev Ramabhadran always points out, of the word "muhabbat", which both she and Asha render as "muhobbat"!).
[Not to say it's all roses after that, though: my daughter insists that, in "aaj ham apanii nigaaho.n kaa asar dekhe.nge" in 'Paakezah', Lata says "phir bhii ye *jid* hai" - she has got me hearing the line that way now! :( ]
Warm regards,
Abhay
Vijay
May 18, 2012, 4:11:46 PM5/18/12
to
Vijay
vrk
May 18, 2012, 8:57:47 PM5/18/12
to
abhay saab what was the error in ghoonghaT kaaDh ke guDiyaa naache?
Abhay Phadnis
May 19, 2012, 1:24:50 AM5/19/12
to
[I had posted a reply but it didn't show up - sorry if this shows up twice!]
On Saturday, 19 May 2012 06:27:47 UTC+5:30, vrk wrote:
> On Saturday, May 19, 2012 1:41:46 AM UTC+5:30, Vijay wrote:
> > I am hearing 'mizaaj'.
> >
> > Vijay
>
> vijay saab please use earphones. laptop/computer speakers sometimes play truant.
Both with and without earphones, I too hear "mizaaj". The ending "j" is - to my ears - quite clear; at the end of the second stanza, I don't hear her sound the intervening "z" as clearly, but the ending "j" is still clear.
>
> abhay saab what was the error in ghoonghaT kaaDh ke guDiyaa naache?
She pronounces the word "naache" as it is pronounced in Marathi. It is difficult to transliterate/explain in writing since the "ch" sound used there doesn't exist in Hindi or English; the only way I can think of is if you try to say "ch" with your tongue touching your teeth rather than your palate.
Warm regards,
Abhay
On Saturday, 19 May 2012 06:27:47 UTC+5:30, vrk wrote:
> On Saturday, May 19, 2012 1:41:46 AM UTC+5:30, Vijay wrote:
> > I am hearing 'mizaaj'.
> >
> > Vijay
>
> vijay saab please use earphones. laptop/computer speakers sometimes play truant.
>
> abhay saab what was the error in ghoonghaT kaaDh ke guDiyaa naache?
Warm regards,
Abhay
Message has been deleted
Vijay
May 19, 2012, 6:13:18 AM5/19/12
to
On May 19, 1:57 am, vrk <kumar.vr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, May 19, 2012 1:41:46 AM UTC+5:30, Vijay wrote:
> > On May 14, 12:49 pm, vrk <kumar.vr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > was listening to this song and realised that lata sings the line as 'mijaaz' instead of mizaaj. the rhyme of the song (aaj/raaj etc) also suggests that the word should be mizaaj. but she repeats mijaaz again and again.
>
> > > was this some kind of 'pavan kare sor" or was it a mistake?
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FixUD8PeHgE
>
> > I am hearing 'mizaaj'.
>
> > Vijay
>
> vijay saab please use earphones. laptop/computer speakers sometimes play truant.
>
I did. I listened to the whole song this time. She enunciates the 'z'
> On Saturday, May 19, 2012 1:41:46 AM UTC+5:30, Vijay wrote:
> > On May 14, 12:49 pm, vrk <kumar.vr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > was listening to this song and realised that lata sings the line as 'mijaaz' instead of mizaaj. the rhyme of the song (aaj/raaj etc) also suggests that the word should be mizaaj. but she repeats mijaaz again and again.
>
> > > was this some kind of 'pavan kare sor" or was it a mistake?
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FixUD8PeHgE
>
> > I am hearing 'mizaaj'.
>
> > Vijay
>
> vijay saab please use earphones. laptop/computer speakers sometimes play truant.
>
sound clearly differently from the 'j' sound and it is reasonably
proximal to how an 'ahl-e-zubaaN' will pronounce it. She is perhaps
not as consistant throughout the song. There is one instance, at the
TS 3:02, where she pronounces the word as 'mizaaz', which seems like
an over-correction of your Khuraana/Khaana/Ghum variety.
Regards,
Vijay
Balaji Murthy
May 22, 2012, 1:04:36 PM5/22/12
to
Is that really a mistake or a regional inflection like Rafi's Punjabi
style that many find actually endearing? Same with 'naazu(u)k'. As for
the original post, I hear Lata singing 'mizaaj' clearly except at 0:56
where she clearly sounds to me singing 'mijaaz'.
- Balaji
vrk
May 22, 2012, 9:00:59 PM5/22/12
to
dear balaji
thanks very much.
i almost spent 1000 rs on an ent :)
thanks very much.
i almost spent 1000 rs on an ent :)
Abhay Phadnis
May 23, 2012, 12:54:38 AM5/23/12
to
On Tuesday, 22 May 2012 22:34:36 UTC+5:30, Balaji Murthy wrote:
(snip)
As for the SSBB song: just for clarity - you are saying you hear "mizaaj" pronounced correctly throughout the song except at one specific point - is that right?
Warm regards,
Abhay
(snip)
> Is that really a mistake or a regional inflection like Rafi's Punjabi
> style that many find actually endearing? Same with 'naazu(u)k'. As for
> the original post, I hear Lata singing 'mizaaj' clearly except at 0:56
> where she clearly sounds to me singing 'mijaaz'.
Oh, both the instances are clearly Marathi influences on her Hindi/Urdu pronunciation. Whether they are mistakes or not would depend on how particular one is about "proper" pronunciation!
> style that many find actually endearing? Same with 'naazu(u)k'. As for
> the original post, I hear Lata singing 'mizaaj' clearly except at 0:56
> where she clearly sounds to me singing 'mijaaz'.
As for the SSBB song: just for clarity - you are saying you hear "mizaaj" pronounced correctly throughout the song except at one specific point - is that right?
Warm regards,
Abhay
0 new messages