RMIM Puraskaar 2008 results are out
Vinay
'Rock On' is adjudged the "Album of the Year". The "Song of the Year"
is 'kabhii kabhii aditi' from 'Jaane Tu Yaa Jaane Na'. Even if you are
not a fan of these, don't let that keep you from checking more
results :). For other puraskaars and a complete list of ranked songs,
visit the Puraskaar site (http://awards.giitaayan.com/) and find out
other worthy albums, songs, and artists of the year.
The "Satish Kalra Sammaan" was not conferred on any album this year.
As you may know, it is a benchmark honour and is given only when an
album is considered all-time great. Unfortunately no album this year
deserved it.
Thanks to everyone who participated in the process and made this
happen. I especially thank the jury members - Aditya, Ajay, Chetan,
Ketan, Manish, Manisha, Megha, Ramanand, Sanjeev, and Subrat - for a
rather smooth and enjoyable exercise for me. I hope it was the same
for them.
Follow the links below to see the results. Feel free to be happy or
raise issues with them. If there are any corrections to the P-stats
please let me know.
* For results in English - http://awards.giitaayan.com/2008/indexen.htm
* परिणाम, हिंदी में - http://awards.giitaayan.com/2008/indexhi.htm
Vinay
kcp
performance
विनय
I forgot Abhay Phadnis from the jury list. Apologies. He was very much
a part of it. Thanks Abhay.
Vinay
Parry
> * For results in English -http://awards.giitaayan.com/2008/indexen.htm
> * परिणाम, हिंदी में -http://awards.giitaayan.com/2008/indexhi.htm
>
> Vinay
May we know who voted for what?
arun
Results Rock on! (Not!)! :-( . An overdose of certain soundtracks
(rock on, yuvraj, rab ne, jodha akbar) which were definitely good but
don't agree with ordering at the top. Almost songs from these
soundtracks are included...actually almost all the songs are
admittedly nice but they lack that modern, edgy, raw, innovative
quality and sound very dated!! E.g. Zindagi zindagi from yuvraaj
sounds like something from decades ago. ...okay okay I am over-
reacting and perhaps I shouldn't include jodha-akbar in my rant
list.which did more innovative songs but they *all* don't belong
there and not *all* near the top! Rock was overrated in all aspects,
music, singing, lyrics and movie -- but I do welcome the freshness
that Rock on brought to indian cinema but it could have been much
better product overall!
missed seeing halla bol, dil kabbadi, ru ba ru, a wednesday ..which
all have at least one (probably just one! :-) very good song! But good
to see the unusual suspects like haal-e-ldil, superstar, black n
white, u me aur hum, ramchand pakistani, chamku, drona, dasvidaniya,
pranali and heroes included!
My main rant comes now: Aamir and especially Oye Lucky Lucky Oye
deserved much better!!
Vinay, I think I gave you a similar feedback on facebook! Great job
with these yearly puruskars!! This is a great undertaking which
requires much effort from you and Jury members so thanks to all. I
propose you can also organize a simialr survey for movies and non-
film music albums!!
How about some stats: How many voters, and votes for each album and
song? Can you disclose the pre-jury raw results?
A
Vinay
There are mostly practical problems with both categories. I will think
about including the non-film Hindi music into the mix next year if I
can find sufficient information about all the releases. However, is
the current non-film scene even worth the trouble? I am genuinely
unaware. Can you please list a few albums from last year that you
thought were good?
> How about some stats: How many voters, and votes for each album and
> song? Can you disclose the pre-jury raw results?
I wouldn't want to go into specific numbers, but I will post a list of
*all* nominated songs here soon.
Vinay
> A
Vinay
I am sorry I cannot divulge that, but jury members themselves are free
to discuss their choices.
Vinay
Ketan
arun says...
>Results Rock on! (Not!)! :-( . An overdose of certain soundtracks
>(rock on, yuvraj, rab ne, jodha akbar) which were definitely good but
>don't agree with ordering at the top. Almost songs from these
>soundtracks are included...actually almost all the songs are
>admittedly nice but they lack that modern, edgy, raw, innovative
>quality and sound very dated!! E.g. Zindagi zindagi from yuvraaj
>sounds like something from decades ago. ...okay okay I am over-
>reacting and perhaps I shouldn't include jodha-akbar in my rant
>list.which did more innovative songs but they *all* don't belong
>there and not *all* near the top! Rock was overrated in all aspects,
>music, singing, lyrics and movie -- but I do welcome the freshness
>that Rock on brought to indian cinema but it could have been much
>better product overall!
You are making the mistake of comparing the nominees to something in the past
when you say "dated". As a jury member, I merely looked and compared them to
each other. So for me, Rock on, Yuvraaj, JA, JTYJN, Ghajini might very well lack
all that you describe above, but these were still the best out there. As someone
who did vote "Rock On" as his album of the year, I share your thoughts on the
freshness aspect and that's what ultimately got my vote instead of the second
place "Jaane Tu...Na".
If anything, I liked the way they used Farhan's (not a singer's) voice in the
movie since it lent additional credibility to the character on screen. The
melodies in Rock on might not be the greatest of 2008, but again, I found it
closer to reality to what was happening on screen. The lyrics--again not the
greatest but then I kept reminding myself of Paul McCartney screaming "Why don't
we do it in the road" again and again on the White Album. If that can pass
muster as a good rock song, this certainly can. For me, the disappointment was
Jodha Akbar where I thought ARR had ample opportunity which he wasted.
As for the process, I avoided knowing the singers, lyricists, and MD's unless it
was unavoidable for me to notice it. I did not want myself to be biased in any
way during the process. Ofcourse it's easy to recognize Kailash Kher,
Sukhwinder, Sonu but even now I don't think I can tell a Shreya from a Sunidhi
from a Sadhana or someone else with regular precision. I did not know Gulzar had
written for Yuvraaj till Vinay mentioned it during lunch one day. There were no
words like "dhund", "nasheman", "seeli" that I came across.
>missed seeing halla bol, dil kabbadi, ru ba ru, a wednesday ..which
>all have at least one (probably just one! :-) very good song! But good
>to see the unusual suspects like haal-e-ldil, superstar, black n
>white, u me aur hum, ramchand pakistani, chamku, drona, dasvidaniya,
>pranali and heroes included!
Sorry but I would be hesitant to give a movie an "Album of the year" award based
on just one good song. If that were the criteria, I expect all of you to admit
online that Sholay is an outstanding soundtrack since it has a great background
score and atleast one great song (with a little help from Demis Roussous).
>My main rant comes now: Aamir and especially Oye Lucky Lucky Oye
>deserved much better!!
Why would OLLO deserve better? It has no scope for songs and hence you see the
dismal results in the music. My main rant was not nominating "Bachna ae
haseeno's title song--why not? It was better than many other songs nominated.
The one song that has stayed with me out of all this is Chamku's "Aaja milke".
I enjoyed the process and if asked, I would not hesitate to be a jury member
again. So far in 2009, ARR leads the pack with 2 soundtracks already.
Ketan
arun
> In article <a4c4f171-aa85-461f-894e-bbf6ad203...@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
Well, first-off you say freshness was important and then you go on to
say why that means Rock-On is better than JTYJN?? I mean while we are
talking about just freshness JTYJN scores more ...although Rock on
comes close on freshness quotient.
OLLO music dismal?? Lets just agree to disagree...
My point with those albums with one good songs each was that those
songs didn't feature in top 75 songs...not that they were contenders
for best albums.
That Chamku song is pleasant.
By dated I meant they lacked the edge, lack the innovativeness that we
should expect from a modern 2008 album... I mean the purpose isn't
just to pick the album with songs that are good/sound good but also an
album which breaks a new frontier, brings a new sound... Aamir and
JTYJN had that. OLLO had that. Rock on to a certain extent (would
feature in my top 10 but not at #1). Yuvraj, Jodha akbar lacked that
to some extended..notably the former. I am basically pointing out a
baggage we RMIMers carry as lovers of old/golden music that we flock
to something that sounds familiar (Pt Jasraj in 1920, zindagi zindagi
and man mohini from yuvraj, haal-e-dil title song, manmohana from JA,
Black N white songs to a certain extent ) but completely lacks in
freshness/anything new and sounds stale/dated instead.
How about Khuda ke liye? This album was also completely missing and
this one had more than a couple of good songs and would be in my
top-10....
Even for Aamir, I am shocked that "Ha raham" didn't feature in top 5
songs not to mention beated by Aamir's own "ek lau.." which though
great is a notch below. And the shocker of all: Phas gaya which is
second to only Ha Raham from Aamir album isn't even in top 75... and
Phas Gaya has that "new sound" I have been referring to which got
ignored...
anyways, RMIM puruskar is awards by old music lover so it does make
sense that 'dated' or classic sounding music will get preference but I
didn't expect the new sound to be totally ignored at the same time.
arun
Also, Ketan, just because you identified with Rock On music and movie
(a lot of us did, frankly, including myself) doesn't mean its great. I
agree farhan's voice worked for the film but it doesn't work as well
for the music album we are judging...ditto lyrics worked on on-screen
happenings but don't make great songs. Even so, its SEL who
disappointed me eventually, the music was missing some juice.....
Vinay
You just had to read the comments to see the flak Pt Jasraj has
received for the 1920 song. And not even that to see how low it has
fared. Firstly, I don't think it is fair to judge all RMIMers as
people not interested in new music. Secondly, RMIM Puraskaars, as I
have noted in its introduction as well, only takes the name from RMIM.
It is not limited to RMIMers (i.e. people who frequent or post on the
group), neither in terms of people who nominate songs or those who
form the jury.
> and man mohini from yuvraj, haal-e-dil title song, manmohana from JA,
> Black N white songs to a certain extent ) but completely lacks in
> freshness/anything new and sounds stale/dated instead.
>
> How about Khuda ke liye? This album was also completely missing and
> this one had more than a couple of good songs and would be in my
> top-10....
>
> Even for Aamir, I am shocked that "Ha raham" didn't feature in top 5
> songs not to mention beated by Aamir's own "ek lau.." which though
> great is a notch below. And the shocker of all: Phas gaya which is
> second to only Ha Raham from Aamir album isn't even in top 75... and
> Phas Gaya has that "new sound" I have been referring to which got
> ignored...
>
Is it possible that the people got the new sound thing and yet didn't
like it? Just being new shouldn't be sufficient, right? Same as just
being old shouldn't.
> anyways, RMIM puruskar is awards by old music lover so it does make
"Awards by old music lovers"? I hope you don't mean that loving old
music automatically excludes one from being able to appreciate or love
new music or new sound. If anything it's a positive quality since
being more aware of the Hindi film music historically brings a wider
perspective into the judgment.
> sense that 'dated' or classic sounding music will get preference but I
> didn't expect the new sound to be totally ignored at the same time.
Then how would you explain 'kabhii kabhii aditi' being the winner
song? IMO, it doesn't fit in the criteria of classic or 'dated' by a
mile, in any single department.
Vinay
arun
>
> - Show quoted text -
Accept my apologies if I come across as blaming RMIM jury; my
intention is only to make an observation.
Even in the previous years, new sound like life in a metro, jab we
met, bas ek pal, anwar, pyar ke side effects, blue umbrella were
ignored for 'dated' sound like khoya khoya chand, water, Fanaa etc...
Agreed regarding Kabhi aditi...exceptions do prove the rule :-)
I don't think you are ignoring new sounds but just that there is a
definite bias towards 'familiar' music to RMIM core audience/jury
members...
Non-film albums ; there were a dozen or so good albums last year
(especially if you look at pakistani output) -- probably doesn't
deserve its own category but you could combine them with film
albums... I could help here if you'd like.
cheers!
Arun
vijay...@my-deja.com
Vinay,
kudos for a wonderful job.
Also liked the thoughtfulness with which you have laid out
the results web pages. Not being entirely familiar with many of
these songs, I especially appreciated the jury comments - it
was as if we had an RMIM thread devoted to each of these songs.
Vijay
Ketan
arun says...
>Well, first-off you say freshness was important and then you go on to
>say why that means Rock-On is better than JTYJN?? I mean while we are
>talking about just freshness JTYJN scores more ...although Rock on
>comes close on freshness quotient.
Is that a fact or your opinion. If the latter, than it can be safely ignored.
You found JTYJN fresher than Rock On? Good for you! I didn't.
>My point with those albums with one good songs each was that those
>songs didn't feature in top 75 songs...not that they were contenders
>for best albums.
Again, like the entire voting process, the nomination process is also controlled
by the likes of you. If enough people had nominated those "one good songs" that
you mention, they would have made it to the list of 75. Clearly not enough
people shared your enthusiasm for those one-off good songs. Even one of my
favourite songs of 2008 did not make it to the final 75. It didn't get enough
votes and more votes = victory(unless you are voting in the US Presidential
election).
>By dated I meant they lacked the edge, lack the innovativeness that we
>should expect from a modern 2008 album... I mean the purpose isn't
And just what is the edge and innovativeness that we should expect in a 2008
album? I don't have any clue, but you seem to have some idea of it. Please
educate us on this "edgy music". Some of the nominated songs were really not
good, and did make me fall of the edge of my chair while listening to them. I am
assuming that's not your definition of "edgy music".
>just to pick the album with songs that are good/sound good but also an
>album which breaks a new frontier, brings a new sound... Aamir and
>JTYJN had that. OLLO had that. Rock on to a certain extent (would
Please educate us on what new frontier Aamir, JTYJN or OLLO broke thru.
>feature in my top 10 but not at #1). Yuvraj, Jodha akbar lacked that
>to some extended..notably the former. I am basically pointing out a
>baggage we RMIMers carry as lovers of old/golden music that we flock
>to something that sounds familiar (Pt Jasraj in 1920, zindagi zindagi
>and man mohini from yuvraj, haal-e-dil title song, manmohana from JA,
>Black N white songs to a certain extent ) but completely lacks in
>freshness/anything new and sounds stale/dated instead.
The songs you mention were not highly praised by some of us baggage carrying
lovers of old music. With Vinay's permission, some of us did exchange our
ratings AFTER the voting was done and I can tell you, that none of us carried
the baggage of old music. We even liked the same songs you did, just not as much
as you do.
>How about Khuda ke liye? This album was also completely missing and
>this one had more than a couple of good songs and would be in my
>top-10....
See above speech on the voting process.
>Even for Aamir, I am shocked that "Ha raham" didn't feature in top 5
>songs not to mention beated by Aamir's own "ek lau.." which though
>great is a notch below. And the shocker of all: Phas gaya which is
>second to only Ha Raham from Aamir album isn't even in top 75... and
>Phas Gaya has that "new sound" I have been referring to which got
>ignored...
I hear no "new sound" in this song "Phas gaya". Nothing that I haven't heard
before. But you think there is, so "Never Mind".
>anyways, RMIM puruskar is awards by old music lover so it does make
>sense that 'dated' or classic sounding music will get preference but I
>didn't expect the new sound to be totally ignored at the same time.
Earlier in the post you say "Rock on comes close on freshness quotient and JTYJN
scores more". Now considering "Rock On" got the plurality of votes and emerged
the winner and JTYJN came in a close second, you will have to explain your
accusation of how the "new sound" was totally ignored. Have fun arguing with
yourself.
Ketan
arun
> In article <d274d55e-b215-4510-a91e-b5c8d1a68...@n30g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
> arun says...
>
> >Well, first-off you say freshness was important and then you go on to
> >say why that means Rock-On is better than JTYJN?? I mean while we are
> >talking about just freshness JTYJN scores more ...although Rock on
> >comes close on freshness quotient.
>
> Is that a fact or your opinion. If the latter, than it can be safely ignored.
> You found JTYJN fresher than Rock On? Good for you! I didn't.
Ofocurse whatever we write here is our opinion. what isn't??
>
>Even one of my
> favourite songs of 2008 did not make it to the final 75. It didn't get enough
> votes and more votes = victory(unless you are voting in the US Presidential
> election).
>
what song will that be..? Just curious.
> >By dated I meant they lacked the edge, lack the innovativeness that we
> >should expect from a modern 2008 album... I mean the purpose isn't
>
> And just what is the edge and innovativeness that we should expect in a 2008
> album? I don't have any clue, but you seem to have some idea of it. Please
> educate us on this "edgy music". Some of the nominated songs were really not
> good, and did make me fall of the edge of my chair while listening to them. I am
> assuming that's not your definition of "edgy music".
>
:-) . I fell off my chair too but unlike you I was happy while falling
down...
> >just to pick the album with songs that are good/sound good but also an
> >album which breaks a new frontier, brings a new sound... Aamir and
> >JTYJN had that. OLLO had that. Rock on to a certain extent (would
>
> Please educate us on what new frontier Aamir, JTYJN or OLLO broke thru.
>
We are getting into shaky grounds of personal taste and subjective
opinions.
Many (if not most) compositions in above 3 albums offer something that
hasn't been tried before, be it innovative vocals in JTYJN, Tunes and
orchestration with raw energy in Aamir
or retro yet modern punjabi folkish sound (with rare singers) in
OLLO!
>
> >Even for Aamir, I am shocked that "Ha raham" didn't feature in top 5
> >songs not to mention beated by Aamir's own "ek lau.." which though
> >great is a notch below. And the shocker of all: Phas gaya which is
> >second to only Ha Raham from Aamir album isn't even in top 75... and
> >Phas Gaya has that "new sound" I have been referring to which got
> >ignored...
>
> I hear no "new sound" in this song "Phas gaya". Nothing that I haven't heard
> before. But you think there is, so "Never Mind".
Agree.. never mind..lets agree to disagree.
>
> >anyways, RMIM puruskar is awards by old music lover so it does make
> >sense that 'dated' or classic sounding music will get preference but I
> >didn't expect the new sound to be totally ignored at the same time.
>
> Earlier in the post you say "Rock on comes close on freshness quotient and JTYJN
> scores more". Now considering "Rock On" got the plurality of votes and emerged
> the winner and JTYJN came in a close second, you will have to explain your
> accusation of how the "new sound" was totally ignored. Have fun arguing with
> yourself.
RO comes close on freshness quotient to JTYJN but this isn't the only
place
JTYJN scores; it has far better tunes and singing too..
Again, I am not ranting but just making observations/comments on the
musical sensibilities
of a core RMIM puruskar judge. Look at another post in this thread
where I pointed out that even in 2006 and 2007 versions there are
similar observations to make.
Peace and cheers, Arun
> Ketan
Ketan
arun says...
>>Even one of my favourite songs of 2008 did not make it to the final 75. It
>>>>didn't get enough votes and more votes =3D victory(unless you are voting in
>>>>the US Presidential election).
>what song will that be..? Just curious.
Original MD: Dead for 15 years. Main singer: Dead for 21 years. That should be
enough of a clue.
>> >just to pick the album with songs that are good/sound good but also an
>> >album which breaks a new frontier, brings a new sound... Aamir and
>> >JTYJN had that. OLLO had that. Rock on to a certain extent (would
>>
>> Please educate us on what new frontier Aamir, JTYJN or OLLO broke thru.
>>
>
>We are getting into shaky grounds of personal taste and subjective
>opinions.
Yes we are. Which is what I was trying to drive home. What you find 'edgy',
'innovative', 'breaking new frontiers', might not seem that way to someone else.
>Many (if not most) compositions in above 3 albums offer something that
>hasn't been tried before, be it innovative vocals in JTYJN, Tunes and
>orchestration with raw energy in Aamir or retro yet modern punjabi folkish
> sound (with rare singers) in OLLO!
Innovative vocals in JTYJN? What is so innovative about the way the guy sings
"Kabhi kabhi aditi.."? Kumar Sanu has sung thru his nose much earlier and KS
sounds better. The singer in JTYJN sounds like Adnan Sami with a bad cold. About
OLLO--What is "retro yet modern punjabi folkish sound"? Is that a new name for
post-modernist music?
>RO comes close on freshness quotient to JTYJN but this isn't the only
>place JTYJN scores; it has far better tunes and singing too..
JTYJN has some sungs that are sung better than RO's songs. However RO fits the
on-screen persona better. RO is a movie about struggling amateur musicians who
almost make it, then don't and then come back 10 years later to try yet again. I
think S-E-L took a calculated chance by getting Farhan to sing. If they had
taken professional singers instead of Farhan, it would have made the
music/singing too polished and the movie would lose it's "amateur music band"
feel. JTYJN is a movie about just out of college kids. The singers/lyrics don't
sound like what a 20 year old would sing excepting in "Pappu Can't Dance Saala".
When I voted for the "Album of the Year", both RO and JTYJN were in a close
photo-finish. RO won out because of its ability to fit to what's happening on
screen. That was an important criteria for me.
>Again, I am not ranting but just making observations/comments on the
>musical sensibilities of a core RMIM puruskar judge. Look at another post in
>>this thread where I pointed out that even in 2006 and 2007 versions there are
>similar observations to make.
Since not all the judges are RMIMers, I would say the results of 2006, 2007 and
2008 reflect the musicial sensibilities of a core Puruskar judge.
Ketan